📕 Read the article version ▶︎ jadejoddle.com/often-posh-pronunciation

@seyhayen6264

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Jade 💓

@juliagradeva4431

2 жыл бұрын

I have always been puzzled which actually is the right pronunciation of this word. Now everything is clear. Thank you so much, Jade for your wonderful lessons.

@joy1ess

2 жыл бұрын

I've always wondered about this whenever I hear Depeche Mode's "Somebody". I thought to myself.. How could an English person mispronounce an English word, AND recorded it in a song.. Thank you for the clarification

@riyadboualage3587

2 жыл бұрын

اتمني لك كل نجاح

@AnnabelleJARankin

2 жыл бұрын

It's not about being posh though, is it? It's about accuracy - it is not good English to pronounce the 't', whatever your 'class', in 'often'!

The cheery body language + deadpan face expression combo is GREAT.

@68pariser

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, but quite strange actually, not the slightest hint of a smile. 😐

@suzyocean7392

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly love her presentation

@move2003ny

2 жыл бұрын

@@68pariser really? To me she is smiling the whole time.

@68pariser

2 жыл бұрын

move2003ny ok: alright. ↖️↖️↖️☺️

@ravishingrebecca3912

2 жыл бұрын

I like her presentation. I think she's gorgeous

I can't stop laughing.every time she says posh or not she dances her arms

@sandratran8335

2 жыл бұрын

Hahahhha saaame I’m glad someone else realised

@ERICAscw

2 жыл бұрын

Must say it's a bit awkward haha

@arsnakehert

2 жыл бұрын

It's uuuh super cute lmao

@josegabrielsanchez8683

2 жыл бұрын

she's obsessed with the poshness shite!

@jedrashidul6952

2 жыл бұрын

I love it

The more I learn about English pronunciation, the more convinced I become that it is, in fact, a joke language made up by some deranged lunatic who wanted to see how much bullshit he could get away with.

@mika72.-Bois

2 жыл бұрын

I think you're right there! English is my first language. I do sympathise with people learning English as a second language trying to learn the irregular pronunciation & spelling!

@JJ-vc6pp

2 жыл бұрын

And yet, you use it beautifully with nuance.

@andiemorgan961

2 жыл бұрын

Most languages have developed from a mixture of others. English just has a bigger mixture!🤣

@user-mc4og9zr3d

2 жыл бұрын

Very true 😂

@rubensoares8736

2 жыл бұрын

Wait till you learn about French

As a second language in elementry school, I was taught that the "t" in often is a silent letter. When I grew up, I noticed that all native English speakers pronounce it with "t". So I started to teach myself to say it with "t". My native language is Arabic from Saudi Arabia

@petercushing72

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, both pronunciations are fine and have very little to do with social class.

@madameproblemes6548

2 жыл бұрын

Same ! All my teachers told me to never pronounce the T

@annamills2773

2 жыл бұрын

You can pronounce it without a t, at least in my accent. I'm a native english speaker and the t is not usually pronounced in my accent, so I just suppose it's whatever accent you use

@gwen6739

2 жыл бұрын

Native speaker here. I have never pronounced it with the t

@weamalgassim

2 жыл бұрын

@@annamills2773 Thanks for your reply. It is good to know that my original pronounciation is also used by natives. The clash between what I learned over the years and what I hear from natives could be confusing sometimes.0

She says "I'm still not going to pronounce this word for you" when she already has.

@acadelic841

2 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed seeing that as well

@josegabrielsanchez8683

2 жыл бұрын

you often are a party pooper, are you now!?

@RaelWander

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! I was like "Hold on! But you...?"

@anavonrebeur6121

2 жыл бұрын

Correct

@appenninoview6307

2 жыл бұрын

Yes..I noticed that too 😀

“The T is always pronounced. Oft is the old fashioned word for offen.” Priceless!

@tartfuel

2 жыл бұрын

The T is always pronounced in the word oft. Which is the root word for Often, but that does not mean that Often is pronounced the same way (with the T). The correct way to pronounce the word Often is without the T.

@Sonny_Sideup

2 жыл бұрын

@@tartfuel I was quoting from her video, and I’m fully aware of the root, being an English teacher with a keen interest in linguistic history. It’s nonsense to say that the correct way to pronounce ‘often’ is with a silent T. There’s no phonetic reason not to pronounce the T, but in any event it’s a pointless video. It’s just snobbishness to assume that one way is posh and the other way isn’t. Racial and regional accents affect the way we speak, so there isn’t a right way these days. I was taught to pronounce the T’s and D’s at the end of words, which I stress to my students, and there’s nothing posh about that either.

@Moamanly

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sonny_Sideup I am dismayed to hear you, as an English teacher, say "so there isn’t a right way these days". That might explain why spoken and written English is all over the shop!

@Sonny_Sideup

2 жыл бұрын

@@Moamanly It makes me despair when newspaper and magazine articles, Tweets, and Facebook posts are littered with basic literacy mistakes, and it's both arrogant and lazy to expect someone to read a 50 word sentence without any punctuation at all. That said, while the US is considering dropping the teaching of cognitive writing, most still know the importance of precise English, especially for business. After all, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly! I teach it, but what they do with it after is out of my hands.

@ProdavackaDivu

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sonny_Sideup I don’t think you can deny the concept of “posh” accents existing, whether or not it offends you. If every accent or dialect were posh then none would be, and the adjective would lose its meaning. In the end she says 50% of people pronounce often with the T and 50% without. She’s not being prescriptivist (telling people what they should do) but describing the history so they can choose for themselves.

Note to learners, don't nit pick the language. That is, just relax and don't over worry as very few native English speakers speak alike.

@painterguylincs

Жыл бұрын

Well said. The self-appointed authority on the English language with the fake accent who put this arrogant and largely incorrect lecture together is trying primarily to convince you that she is of a superior class. As a professor (Emeritus but with retention of most marbles) of linguistics who majored in Classical Etymology, I can assure you she has about as much of a clue on the subject as I have on the Tooth Fairy's bathroom schedule.

@GenerationNextNextNext

Ай бұрын

The best advice ever.

@GenerationNextNextNext

Ай бұрын

@@painterguylincs I didn't really get the vibe that she was trying to convince anyone she's of a superior class at all...

It's quite interesting(and slightly hilarious) that I was taught the 'posh' way of pronouncing often in my elementary school, and when I met other people who have a strong confidence in their English, they would correct me to the pronunciation with a /t/ sound😂

@weamalgassim

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly my story 😅

@asseyez-vous6492

2 жыл бұрын

I’m English and I still don’t understand it!? 😕

@lilultime6555

2 жыл бұрын

Wait , the posh way is without the t😳 I guess I am posh😳

@23Crystal

2 жыл бұрын

Same! I even heard English native speakers (from the US) using this word with the /t/ sound and I got so confused! This video gives me clarity, I think I'll keep the silent /t/ 😅

@fredgilbert2032

2 жыл бұрын

@@23Crystal All depends on what part of the US you are from I was taught Offen and Soffen no /t/ is said.

The simple fact that the t is never pronounced in listen, fasten, moisten, wrestle, hustle, bustle, gristle, thistle, Christmas, christen (misspelled on her board), apostle, or epistle tells me that it also *should* never be pronounced in often or soften. But when enough people use a word wrong, the dictionaries update to reflect their poor use. You can see the same thing with it now being acceptable to use literal in the figurative sense.

@trishayamada807

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@JfromUK_

2 жыл бұрын

Well, my observation was that all of the words in which we were told not to pronounce the 't' have a preceding 's', that seems to swallow the /t/ sound. "Often" and "soften" don't have that pattern so I'm not sure the same necessarily applies, though I do pronounce them without the /t/ myself. I wasn't satisfied by the inclusion of "Christian" without explanation though -- the "ti" changes things a bit.

@cinzabeary5226

2 жыл бұрын

Christian and christen is different. Christian is the religious sect. Christen is the baptismal word.

@chucky428

Жыл бұрын

I can never accept people pronounce the word with a t. Every time i hear that i wanna clench my teeth.

@painterguylincs

Жыл бұрын

Depends on your definition of acceptable. For me, when the OED declared that literally can legitimately mean not literally, it lost all claim to authority on the English language. (My bother's response was "Yeah, I literally died when I heard that." I have a degree of faith that he was joking, although I dared not ask, just in case his answer may have compelled me to 'ang one on 'is beak. 😄)

I wonder if she realises her delivery is great for meditation / falling asleep.

@petercushing72

2 жыл бұрын

You read my mind. I thought it was just me 🤔

@sm3675

2 жыл бұрын

Just join a chemistry class if you want to fall asleep.

@rrs_13

2 жыл бұрын

She seems like the personification of Droopy. A very literate Droopy, but still Droopy nonetheless.

@zapkvr

2 жыл бұрын

Theres a podcast called Nothing much matters - bedtime stories for adults. It's wonderful. I commend it to you.

@zapkvr

2 жыл бұрын

@@sm3675 or advanced calculus

Growing up learning English as a second language, our teachers would teach often without a t sound, like the t was not an option. My british cousin who would visit every year did use it though, and I was too shy to ask (my teachers) why she who is a native speaker does pronounce it if it's not pronounced. Then I started noticing it everywhere and my question solved itself. 😅

@painterguylincs

Жыл бұрын

For comparison, soften, hasten, moisten, glisten, Apostle and mistletoe, among others, are nearly-but-not-quite-always pronounced with the t silent, whereas often is commonly, and castle and fasten less commonly, spoken with the t sound included. Then there are words with ft and st combinations where the t is nearly always sounded, such as hefty, westward, easter, chieftain... I could go on and on but I trust the point is made... there is no universally consistent practice with these words and variations are mainly regional... NOT social as this self-congratulatory disseminator of absolute truth with delusions of grandeur and a silly fake accent would have you believe.

I got all of that, but everyone I've even known has pronounced Christian with a T. You actually did it in this video. So this one I was definitely confused about

@Lurklen

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, people just think it's not a "T" sound because it sounds more like "CH", but if you took out the T it would sound very different.

@marcor6769

2 жыл бұрын

As Lurklen mentioned, I pronounce Christian with a 'tch' (I'm a native English South African speaker).Above I concurred with Bill Cameron as regards moisten where I also use a 'tch' for its 't'.

@MotoCat91

2 жыл бұрын

Most of my friends and family pronounce it sort of like chris-chun, with no hint of a T, but when growing up there were many people at school, both students and parents who said it like chris-tee-un. Especially for someone's name. So I would also use that when referring to a person named Christian, yet switch back to the CH form for talking about religion (For reference, I grew up in south east Queensland, Australia)

@joshhamilton3730

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, I think she just used the wrong word. Christen is probably the example that she meant to use.

@dahawk8574

2 жыл бұрын

“Today we christen Kristen as a Christian.”

Christian is different than the other examples, as the "t" is not silent. It is however often changed to a softer consonant sound like a "ch", "d"- or "j"-sound.

@liz-c39

2 жыл бұрын

You see, I pronounce it as a /t/ but I’ve noticed a lot of Americans using a /dj/ sound

@nozecone

2 жыл бұрын

@@liz-c39 But you say in the video that it is NOT pronounced - before and after you pronounce it! Edit: Sorry - for some reason, I thought you ("Liz") were the presenter in the video ... !

@keithbulley2587

2 жыл бұрын

I think the confusion here is because the 'ch' sound in English starts with the sound of the letter 't' followed by the 'sh' sound. The 'j' sound is the voiced version of 'ch' and is an elision of the 'd' and 'zh' sound. 'ch' = 'tsh' and 'j' = 'dzh'. So there is a 't' sound in there if you say 'chris-chan' as in this video.

@Ottawa3453

2 жыл бұрын

@@keithbulley2587 I concur: "ch" includes a t-sound in English.

@jackiedelvalle

2 жыл бұрын

I'm convinced she intended christen here, which is more in keeping with the other words on her list.

For my Brasilian Portuguese mother tongue ears she said clearly a "T" on "chrisTian", but not the 'normal' "T", but the Brasilian Portuguese "T" followed by "i" which sounds like "CHI" (in English) or "CI" (in Italian). English is a very interesting language with a lot of changes in pronunciation and a lot of semantics. It is a lovely language.

@renatastec5212

2 жыл бұрын

mother tongue... because tong is a kitchen tool

@igordemetriusalencar5861

2 жыл бұрын

@@renatastec5212 Thank you!!

@lucianosaraiva9643

2 жыл бұрын

Quite curious and confusing because she should have pronounced kri -sian if it had not T but she pronounced with T??

@eyeofthasky

2 жыл бұрын

yeah she basically said nonsense there ... a followed by + [another vowel] always changes its sound, the fused with the to originally a "ch" sound which nowadays is just a "sh" except when after "s" (..s'sh.. would be hard to pronounce), e.g. nation = na-sh()n, action = ac-sh()n, suggestion = sud-jes-ch()n, etc. to say the gets ignored would mean you would say sugges'ion / chris'ian, or with before vowel = sh like in vision = vish()n, else suggesh()n chrish()n --- but no one does either...

@valeriemacphail9180

2 жыл бұрын

@@lucianosaraiva9643 No. "Kris(t)-chn", where the t blends into ch sound. The T is anyway a weak sound in English, where in regional speech it is dropped altogether. American English either pronounces it "d" or not at all. By far the best way to learn English pronunciation is to learn the IPA, the symbols of which can be found in any dictionary. I have taught it to 10yr.olds in a few lessons, it is not at all difficult.

As a German having learned English in German schools in the 70s, I learned to pronounce often without the t. I'm still doing it today.

@S-pz8bk

9 ай бұрын

Congratulations on being German by birth. You'll never almost make pronunciation errors in English. English, or may be the posh English is Germanic in origin.

English is my dominant language. My pronunciation might be considered standard U.S. English with a touch of Southern, Eastern Tennessee accent. For those who commented that they heard her pronounce the T in Christian, you are right. She did. However I think she originally meant to list the word Christen not Christian. Christen means to name a baby in a Christian ritual where the baby is also welcomed into Christianity. The verb To Christen is spelled with a silent T. I loved this video. Her explanation of the reason why some people pronounce the T in “often” was brilliant! In the US, some people pronounce the T in “often” and some people don’t. My mother, pronounces the T in often for emphasis, but most of the time she doesn’t pronounce it at all.

The t is pronounced in Christian. It is fused with the y (i）sound to produce ch. Noone says Chrisan or chrishan.

@largeman

2 жыл бұрын

I have a feeling she had meant to write “christen” as in christening, but put down christian by mistake

@NannyYnez

2 жыл бұрын

@@largeman aaah THAT makes sense.. I was looking through the comments because I certainly DO pronounce the T in Christian, I can't imagine how one would say the word without it frankly so it became very confusing to me... but mistakenly writing Christian instead of Christen makes total sense and now I don't feel confused and irritated.. thanks :D

@L-mo

2 жыл бұрын

@@NannyYnez I just commented that you do pronounce the t in Christian then I found these comments and it makes sense now. In christen you never pronounce the t. Instead of Christian, but in the religious theme, she could have had _apostle_ , _whistle_ (you _moisten_ your lips before you _whistle_ , is a good mnemonic for students) and dogs _rustle_ when they _nestle_ in the fallen leaves.

@BonDijon

2 жыл бұрын

ive heard the name Christian pronouned like "Chris-chun" before (like everything same but t replaced with ch sound)

@L-mo

2 жыл бұрын

@@BonDijon that's fine if you're a hillbilly

Gave it away at 1:27 😁. What's the point of being posh when one isn't and doesn't care if one is perceived as being so or not? 🤔 (a fellow English teacher). "Oft" is German for often --> Anglo-Saxon origin? Good lesson 👍 (Edit: +1)

@dosgos

2 жыл бұрын

This is a phonetics class in disguise. So the posh question is just for fun.

@anaussie213

2 жыл бұрын

They didn't give it away because the "posh" pronunciation (actually the standard English way) is to drop the T sound.

@andrewrobinson2565

2 жыл бұрын

@@anaussie213 Can you supply a link to "standard English pronunciation"? Phonetically there are at least 3 ways to pronounce "often" that I know of: RP + non-RP with alveolar voiceless 't' + non-RP without alveolar voiceless 't' = 3. The syllabic stress is always on the first syllable. What's the "standard Australian" pronunciation?

I like the idea of re-introducing the /t/ sound to your entire list of words. Perhaps at Christmas dinner this year. I best practice my look of scorn for my sister every time she drops the /t/.

@misspollysdolly

2 жыл бұрын

Haha too cool for Ts now

@andiemorgan961

2 жыл бұрын

Don't you mean "practise"? Or are you American? In which case carry on "practicing"!🤣

@priola7587

2 жыл бұрын

@@andiemorgan961 West coast of Washington State. 👍😊

@GreenLantern1916

2 жыл бұрын

They're gonna love when you add the "t" sound to the word "listen" - ha, ha

@Nakia11798

2 жыл бұрын

@@priola7587 I think they're joking on your joke about being proper, when practice is an "improper" spelling.

Jade all I can say is you teach with fun and excitement that’s not too overwhelming! I enjoy every minutes thank you!

When I was doing my doctorate, my philology professor who was teaching History of the English Language made a point of explaining that pronouncing the 't' was a classic overcorrection--an attempt to sound 'posh.' This innovation derives from the lower classes and is a demonstration of a hard-earned grasp at the attainments of literacy.

@herrbonk3635

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, a typical example of hypercorrection. We see quite a lot of that in my language as well. There is even a special linguistic term for that particular kind: _skriftspråksuttal_ ("written-language-pronunciation").

@calincucuietu8220

2 жыл бұрын

A whole video based on untrue information... what a pity.

@ScribblebytesWorldwide

2 жыл бұрын

But my thing is, are we speaking to be understood or are we speaking as a matter of pride. I think the whole posh or common thing is ridiculous. As long as we understand what the other person is saying, it should be fine. But humans are weird that way...they attach a currency to everything...even word pronunciation.

@petercushing72

2 жыл бұрын

That's kinda (sic) sad.

@herrbonk3635

2 жыл бұрын

@@ScribblebytesWorldwide Yes, we certainly do that. But it's not unique for humans. Just as with other animals, the _tone_ in what we utter often holds the most crucial information. We decode that with the deepest parts of our nervous system. Our ability to speak, sing and feel rhythm is much more special, especially among mammals. It's basically only some birds that do that, except us. They got a similar FOXp2 gene (and therefore similar proteins in their brain).

Thank you for this! I was born and raised in the deep south of Alabama in the U.S. I’ve been singing, acting, and studying voice and diction since I was quite young. Early on, one of my teachers at my performing arts school taught us not to pronounce the /t/ in often. She said it was not the proper pronunciation, so I’ve always remembered her saying that and have always followed her instructions. I often notice I’m frequently the only one who pronounces the word without the /t/.

@quirkyt_T

2 жыл бұрын

In PA and NJ and I think many in the US northeast say Often pronouncing the F and T. Sounds like Awften.

@edwardpittar648

2 жыл бұрын

Don’t worry. Your way is the correct way.

Fun fact: "oft" is the German word for often. So maybe some wanted to distinct themselves from the "Fritz" and therefore started to use the word "often" more often. 😉

@itskarte8669

2 жыл бұрын

A some English words do use German roots so that adds up lol 🤔

@casper14301

2 жыл бұрын

I don't like the spread of misinformation so I'm going to correct you. "Oft" was the word used in Old English, but it was extended to "often" most likely to better transition to a word beginning with a vowel. Don't fun fact people with nonsense.

@sandyco147

2 жыл бұрын

@@casper14301 he said the fun fact was that the word oft was a German word. He just made an interpretation then. That's it.

@casper14301

2 жыл бұрын

@@sandyco147 No, they used "So", connecting their previous sentence. Meaning that because of the fact that "oft" is the German word for "often" "some wanted to...". Nevertheless, I corrected their "interpretation".

@suberkarschten

2 жыл бұрын

Guys, calm down! This was just a joke! I have now clue about linguistics, just as I have no idea about Old English. But I'm German and I totally made up this story! I'd just wanted to show that we Germans also have a sense of humor... But it apparently didn't work. 🤔

"She was the poshest person in the country." 😂😂😂😂 You've just made my day.

You have just summed up the entire plot of Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates of Penzance". It's well worth watching!

@Xerxes2005

2 жыл бұрын

"I ask you, have you ever known what it is to be an orphan?" "Often!" "Yes, orphan! Have you ever known what it is to be one!" "I said, often!"

@DemeterTelphousia-Erinyes

2 жыл бұрын

I’m so glad someone else mentioned this!

I love everything about this video, especially the hind view of the Corgi.

@mrSam3ooo

2 жыл бұрын

Love how she was tryna be all suspenseful by “not saying the word” but she said it a few minutes in lol

I came back to your channel after so long and it has improved so much. You look fresh, everything looks fresh. Good to see you upping your game

Such a great teaching . ❤💕⭐ I feel blessed to see such a nice class .

Greetings from Nicaragua, thanks for today's lesson your channel has cleared up many doubts about pronunciation. I keep learning you are a great teacher. Blessings

Cool topic. Interesting how the posh version of ‘often’ is the exact opposite in n.a. I think we just assumed w/ the t, was the British way and therefore ‘posh’. By the way, when you read Christian, you pronounced the t every time. I’ve never heard anyone say Chrisian.

@verminwatch_out1283

2 жыл бұрын

No bud she didn't pronounce Christian with a 't' even once...you need to recalibrate your understanding of how the 't' sound is pronounced

@DNA350ppm

2 жыл бұрын

Is it posh to speak with a nasal tone, as I think Jade does? She might say Chri-chian (with ch as in child), what do you hear? Oh my, we were taught High RP, which was then called "Oxford" pronounciation - I must sound very peculiar, with a foreign accent on top of it (Swedish is my mother-tongue).

@verminwatch_out1283

2 жыл бұрын

@@DNA350ppm Her accent is pretty standard RP to me, not at all posh...you need to listen to some people from the English aristocracy if you really want to know what posh sounds like...they make even the Queen sound like a commoner

@stacey_t

2 жыл бұрын

The "t" in Christian is a whole other thing. It is pronounced not as a /t/ sound but as a /ts/ sound, as in "child" I've heard it as a thick /s/ sound as well but mostly by non native speakers.

@argonwheatbelly637

2 жыл бұрын

The "ti" combination moves from being dental to a softer palatal; hence, "ch"-sounding. That's all. It's not about the /t/, but about the /t/ followed by a front vowel. We won't talk about the "ture" combination that varies across the English-speaking world.

I definitely love your lessons, such professional way of making pronunciation understandable. I am totally into this topic as I enjoy practicing my British Pronunciation as a posh (I am Italian). Therefore, you seem to be so well-established professionally, thumbs up and Bravo!

Thank you very much, Jade!! I thought it would be too long to get to the point, but it you made it so interesting! And with your artistics here and there it was very sweet as well!😊 Thank you!✨💕

As far as ‘forehead’ pronunciation is concerned - I’ve always said ‘forrid’ . These days in doing so I am in a minority. But to friends who say ‘fawhead’ I might give them a gentle ribbing by quoting the nursery rhyme: ‘There was a little girl who had a little curl/Right in the middle of her forehead./When she was good she was very very good/and when she was bad she was horrid.’ - sometimes in fun pronouncing both ‘forehead’ and ‘horrid’ (therefore) their way...

@ba8898

2 жыл бұрын

Really? Can't say I've ever come across forrid before

@jamesrogers5277

2 жыл бұрын

@@ba8898 Are you in UK?

@ba8898

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesrogers5277 yep, a Londoner. But you're right - I just checked the Cambridge dictionary and it says it's pronounced /ˈfɒr.ɪd/. How strange. I'll have to listen out for it now :)

@jamesrogers5277

2 жыл бұрын

@@ba8898 Haha! You'll probably hear it constantly now!

@ba8898

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesrogers5277 yeah I bet! Haha

I've learned to prononce "ofen" and "soften" at school, in the early 70... (I didn't know I was "posh" 🙂) But 99% of the time, I ear "often" in videos or films. Lots of changes in the way to give time too.

@johnleake5657

2 жыл бұрын

Remember the 99% are the times you noticed the T, and you likely didn't notice the use of 'often' without the T. I do the same, and am surprised to hear (say) 'outside of' for 'outside' ('outside of the café' vs 'outside the café') which seems very common to me now in yhe UK, but I really don't know how often people just say 'outside' because the usual UK use doesn't draw my attention to it. So my perception that it is getting more common might be right, but the relative frequency of the two usages would need a more rigourous study to evaluate

@SuperDrLisa

2 жыл бұрын

Same here in school in the '70s offen is my pronunciation. When I hear the "t" I cringe, and it does seem that's the new normal.

@porkeman9007

2 жыл бұрын

I didn't know us 2000s Indians are posh

@Nakia11798

2 жыл бұрын

For God's sakes, don't pronounce the T in soften, just sounds weird.

Our English education here in Hong Kong always teaches us the old fashioned pronunciation, I had not heard people say "ofTen" until I started to watch a lot of English shows and KZread videos.

Very much appreciated Teacher Jade: I know you've said before that your lessons are not "added" with fun and smiles, for people who need that kind of encouragement in order to learn. BUT I just wanted to say that, besides all the learning you gently provide to your suscribers, those very brief insertions of the QEII saying "orphan", the body language, the delicately exagerated gestures to exemplify an expression, are the very discreet enchantement that naturally fulfill the lessons. Thank you 👏👏👏

I was born and raised in the northern panhandle of West Virginia not far from Pittsburg, Pennsylvania and graduated from high school in 1970. In those years, and in that region, maybe 10 or 15 percent of the people would pronounce the "t" in often. I moved to Texas in 1976, and noticed right away the "t" being pronounced by more people; and, it seems to have increased over time. No one in my family ever pronounced the "t". Whenever I hear someone pronounce the "t", it distracts me from what is being said almost as if someone had tapped me on the shoulder. I've never heard anyone in my life pronounce the "t" in soften, not even on television. It's quite curious that many people pronounce the "t" in often, but never in soften. Pronouncing the "t" makes the word sound harder or harsher than otherwise. Personally, I like it better when people soften their often with a speck of silence. An entirely separate, but fairly recent, change in English that baffles me is the incredible, exponential increase in the use of "anyways" in place of "anyway"....this may be a purely USA development, I'm not sure. More than once, upon hearing someone use "anyways", I've asked them in jest when "anyway" became plural.

@magnushmann

2 жыл бұрын

I would hypothesise that it might have something to do with the words *soft* and *oft* being pronounced with a longer and shorter vowel respectively, or this might just be a coincidental difference. I might also depend of dialect anyway. As for the shoulder tapping, I know exactly what you mean. I get the same feeling every time I hear *farther* instead of *further*

@jjinwien9054

2 жыл бұрын

I agree that more and more people use the "plural" of anyway. It is just another example of the decline of the English language in the USA. Just ask a USA resident if he/she/they know the difference in usage of the words "lay" and "lie". 90% will get it wrong,

@russaraujo7166

2 жыл бұрын

@@magnushmann, I use "farther" when I'm talking about a physical distance -- "He went farther down the lane than I did." I use "further" when I am talking about some other kind of progression -- "He got further in his talk than last time." ~ "Further down the lane" would not strike my ears as wrong, but "farther in his talk" WOULD strike my ears as wrong. These are my observations as a southwestern Ohio native whose mother was an English teacher.

@magnushmann

2 жыл бұрын

@@russaraujo7166 I'm aware of the distinction in use (even though even that varies) as well as the history of the terms (farther actually used to be more common in the UK weirdly), but I still find it weird why one wouldn't just use _further_ in all cases, since "farther, farthest" to me is essentially equally as jarring as saying "weller, wellest" or "gooder, goodest"

@laverite6427

2 жыл бұрын

In America they don.t speak English they speak a different language called American.

Thank you Jade, interesting topic, discussing pronunciation from its historical background.

Simply love the way you teach!!!

As an Irishman, I’m glad we speak the most phonetic English on the planet, and hence pronounce the letter “t” in words like “often”, “right”, and “mate”.

@danielcoyle8069

2 жыл бұрын

Have you ever seen intermission with Colin Farrel nothing phonetic about that? In fact, anyone not deeply familiar with the Dublin accent would have severe problems understanding anything being said

@gavindoyle692

2 жыл бұрын

@@danielcoyle8069 I’m a Dubliner born and bred. We have two very distinct accents in the city, Daniel. In that film, Farrell (in character) was using the working class Dublin accent, which could cut glass. The middle class accent onthe other hand, is clear, distinct and easy to understand, like a German accent from Hannover, or an Italian accent from Bologna.

@aaronzylbers

2 жыл бұрын

It's right the opposite, Gavin. English is not a phonetic language.. I guess you meant the least phonetic. Spanish or italian are phonetic. Cheers.

@Bellerophon17

2 жыл бұрын

@@aaronzylbers I think he was saying Hiberno-English is more phonetic in its pronunciation than other forms of English, rather than saying English is a phonetic language in general.

@gavindoyle692

2 жыл бұрын

@@aaronzylbers Italian is completely phonetic. Spanish not quite as much. English even less so. I agree. I lived in Turin for four years and now I’ve been in Guadalajara for three, so I know a bit about it. But Irish people (well, some of us at least) speak the most phonetic version of the English language. That’s all I was saying.

Dear splendid Prof, your lessons are always useful. I do love your teaching. Love you. A

I’m happy you clarified this, Jade. Thank you. I appreciate how you presented the historical context: so much more interesting. Strangely, I had the idea that pronouncing the ‘t’ was the posh way. It seems I’ve been posh myself all this time without knowing! ☺️ PS: Clean Elisabeth? Isn’t this a crime of lese majesty? 😱

@JadeJoddle

2 жыл бұрын

Hope the Queen doesn't see this video. 😅

@StephaneSmarties

2 жыл бұрын

She should. Even the Queen could learn from your great videos. 🥰

@jbr84tx

2 жыл бұрын

I also thought the posh pronunciation was with the 't'. I think more British say it with the t sound than here in the USA. We Americans lose a lot of 't' s - ennertainment; idennify; innernational. Sometimes we pronounce 't' like a 'd' - idderation; commiddee; the Oddoman Empire.

@connorsargeant9702

2 жыл бұрын

@@jbr84tx you guys pronounce and spell a lot of words incorrectly

@thatswhatisaid8908

2 жыл бұрын

@@jbr84tx you get that from 'us Aussies'

Thank you for spending the time & effort to teach us how to speak your form of English.

I'm from Eastern Europe and I refuse to drop any letters at all 😂 I shall pronounce EVERRRRYTHING😜

@Blah115

2 жыл бұрын

I can feel you 😄

@fromthemoonandmybed

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah my moms Russian and she needs to force the letters more 😅

You only get one chance to make a good first impression. Thanks for the tips 😀

Thanks for teaching!! You did not want to pronounce "often" in advance. However you had already pronounced it in 1:26 . Just curiosity. Thanks for every explanation!.

I've just started watching your old videos a couple of days ago and I've found them really useful and fun. And tonight I've found out you've got another channel! Of course I'm subscribed. Loved the Joey the kangaroo video btw, made me laugh. Thanks for sharing all of this! I'd really love to get a good British accent 'cause I really like it. Best wishes from Argentina!

I like your explanation. Seriously well done. Subbed. I am delighted to have found your channel

Great presentation! Are you sure some people pronounce 'soften' with a t? I've never heard it. Also, 'Christian' is often pronounced with a t - indeed, you did so here. Some people clearly pronounce it with the t and the i. The t pronunciation is really a product of the middle-classes and their acquisition of literacy in the 19th century. The posh people and the rest of us plebs tend to pronounce words in similar ways (or used to).

@keithbulley2587

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely right. People originating from the lower social strata (such as myself) say 'offen'. With social mobility, people 'correct' their speech and improve their diction to sound more professional, being sure to pronounce any letters they would previously have glossed over in their local accent, leading to letters which should be silent being erroneously pronounced. Another example is the 8th letter of the alphabet whose name was always taught as 'Aitch' but is often now heard as 'Haitch'.

@Blah115

2 жыл бұрын

I do! 😂 Although I’m not native English speaker, I was surprised that soften should be pronounced without T. I had maybe 5-6 english teachers over the past 7 years and they always insisted often and soften should be pronounced with a letter t. Moisten, mortgage, mustn’t, rapport are some of the words I learnt to pronounce with a t letter which is wrong. Really hard to unlearn though 😄

@roseclouds5838

2 жыл бұрын

depends where youre from I assume because in wales its extremely working class to pronounce the T

@josegabrielsanchez8683

2 жыл бұрын

@@roseclouds5838 that's cracking to ken! what's ocurring? genuine

@realworkoutsforrealpeople5041

2 жыл бұрын

I am American and I pronounce moisten without the 't' sound. I am confused about her point about "Christian", though. I hear her pronounce it with a /t/ yet she says it shouldn't be heard?

Awesome lesson, really love it! I use to pronounce both ways.

That was quite informative! Thanks a bunch Stay blessed

Thank you for your wonderful work and sharing Jade

Being an ESL teacher myself I can totally identify with one simple question from a student can then find you spending seven weeks of research going back to Shakespeare times to explain it. By which point the student has forgotten and you're desperate for someone else to ask it.

I remembered my English teacher insisted that 'ofTen' was a wrong pronunciation but when I travelled around places with native English speakers, I heard both 'ofen' and 'ofTen' so 🤷‍♀

@toomanymarys7355

2 жыл бұрын

People are often not well educated.

Hi Teacher Jade, Amazing Video !! your tone of voice is wonderful !! you are Incredible !!! thanks a lot of your videos !!!

@carlosacevedo3951

Ай бұрын

Teacher you are so KIND Person !! thanks a lot of your time for your like about my message !! I really appreciate your videos !!! greeting from South America, I am your loyal follower !!!

Jade, you are super amazing. Thank you!

I just say “souvent”-then I know I’m better (and prettier) than everyone who can only say offen or oft-en.

@sarastarski

2 жыл бұрын

😂

I agree completely with amost all of this, except for one word - moisten - which in my view can be pronounced either way, with or without the 't' - some of the 'poshest' people I know always/mostly say this word with the 't' - in fact I'm almost persuaded it's a sort of trick inclusion, just to sort the 'wheat from the chaff', so to say ;)

@marcor6769

2 жыл бұрын

With regards 'moisten,' I'm in agreement with you; I pronounce the 't' the same way as in 'Christian', a 'tch' sound (I'm a native South African English speaker although my mother tongue is European Portuguese). Hmm. Christening still has a silent 't' as in Christmas. EDIT: I am raising my pronunciation of moisten with another SAfrican in this thread above, Valerie, who is an English language teacher. I am curious to learn if I have been mispronouncing it all my life or if it is indeed a valid alternative.

@ScribblebytesWorldwide

2 жыл бұрын

I'm South African and I say: moist [moys't] moisture [moys'cha] moisturise [moys'cha'rise] moisten [moys'en] And I say often without the T.

@koshka261

2 жыл бұрын

Never heard moisten without the 'T'.

@josegabrielsanchez8683

2 жыл бұрын

@@ScribblebytesWorldwide you play rugby, you brain is smashed, you would pronounce any and each way, you have no bearing, are you even a free man?

@realworkoutsforrealpeople5041

2 жыл бұрын

I'm American and pronounce "moisten" without the /t/.

"Oft is an older version of of'en." You played your hand too early villian!

Hi there from Berlin. I am a German with British descent (my father is from hartlepool). I grew up bilingual but my English isn’t perfect, but good enough. Your channel is very interesting, it‘s great for me to learn how to speak better. My german accent when speaking english is quite strong, and that‘s annoying. :/

@JadeJoddle

2 жыл бұрын

Nice to meet you. Thank you for watching. 👋

Very interesting, thank you. I find christian does have a t/d sound to it.

@JohanMartens1

2 жыл бұрын

She very clearly uses a T in there

@marcor6769

2 жыл бұрын

More a 'tch' than 't'.

@gammashift

2 жыл бұрын

she is saying "chris-chun" so no /t/

@dogvom

2 жыл бұрын

@@gammashift Her "ch" pronunciation in | ˈkrɪstʃən | has an inherent /t/ in it. Otherwise, it would be an "sh" sound, like | ˈkrɪsʃən |.

There is a simple test. If you use the word 'posh', you're not.

This is the best video of yours I've seen.

Your T-SHIRT is beatifull.

Christian is nearly always pronounced krisschan (possibly krisstyan) - the ‘a’ being a typical English ‘schwa’ sound. However, christen (as in baptise) is always pronounced ‘krissen’ (again with the schwa sound in the last syllable) and never with a ‘t’.

@jbr84tx

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, the 'ti' is almost always pronounced like 'sh'.

@prangmasterflash5590

2 жыл бұрын

chris chan

@flaze3

2 жыл бұрын

Good point. She probably meant "christen".

@jjinwien9054

2 жыл бұрын

The Brits also pronounce the Italian Renaissance painter's name Tizian as "Tisshen".

@jamesrogers5277

2 жыл бұрын

@@jjinwien9054 As is made clear in a High Art English poem: While Titian was using 'rose madder'/His model was perched up a ladder./Her position to Titian suggested coition/So he leapt up the ladder 'n 'adder! ... By the way in English Tiziano is known as Titian - pronounced as you say..

Thanks for this Jade, very educational lesson

Come to see this lesson again today. It's so classic.

I find this difficult as a Brit as I don’t analyse my own pronunciation. I was raised on the south coast of England. my Dad is from the midlands and my mums side are Newcastle/ Irish and I worked all over Europe in the travel industry. Maybe I pronounce my words depending on the mood I’m in lol.

Funny that the German word for often is "oft" and we pronounce it with the /t/ sound. So it just doesn't sound right to do a "German pronounciation" when you try to speak English like a native speaker. Always nice to see the common sources of languages :)

I'm glad you're back! Big hug from Argentina!

Also I just wanted to say I love how in different regions people's accents change and even through time like you said my favorite accent of all time is a specific time period Accent ...The Mid-Atlantic accent, or Transatlantic accent, is an accent of English, fashionably used by the early 20th-century American upper class and entertainment industry, which blended together features regarded as the most prestigious from both American and British English (specifically Received Pronunciation. I don't personally feel like there's a wrong way to speak it just depends on where you've grown up however there are stereotypes in America as to what a "lower-class" person's accent would be even to this day but most people don't talk about it I'll give you a hint it's based on if your from a rural location or a poor location but that's just silly or if you speak in Ebonics also people judge you for that but overall that's not how it is anymore or even where you're from for instance I'm from the south and sometimes we get the stereotype that we're stupid just because we're from the south

Большое спасибо, наконец-то я узнал относительно этой "т", которая как мне казалось не должна произносится в принципе в данном слове, но которую то там, то сям приходится слышать.

I'm posh and I think Mr (?) A. S. Hornby is/was a posh because in his dictionary the pronunciation is without "t" so I learned this word without "t" and I must admit that until now I never heard it with a "t". There's an american "KZreadr" /Gotham Chess/ who pronounces the word "often" with a "t" and I was quite shocked because I thought my pronunciation is wrong. In the Longman dictionary there are both the "with t" and "without t" pronunciation. I think I will continue to pronounce it without a "t".

i love the little dance you do whenever you say "posh or not"

Soooo glad i came across your channel! Great video! Greetings from Argentina 😃

More interesting is the pronunciation of words such as castle, after, bath, path etc. Long "a" or short "a"? Is that posh or regional? Or both?

@dip6712

2 жыл бұрын

Having lived in the north and south of england, most people up north pronounce the a as short, and vice versa with the south. so I think it might be regional, but I could be wrong

Language is a tool, not a perfect system. It is used for communication. If you can communicate accurately your thoughts, then I believe such matters like pronunciation have little meaning by contrast.

@reinforced9084

2 жыл бұрын

It helps with getting a good job (making an impression on employer), status, meeting people in high places. I really think speaking a little posh can really give you an edge in life.

This was on my recommendation feed. Watched this and found it interesting. Cheers to the lesson

Jade, you are such a talented and, may I dare to say, ravishing teacher. I learn under your spell!

Byron is a famous British author, not was. When discussing literature, it's always present tense. And he's still famous.

I learned it at school as "offen". I was really surprised when I heard "often". English is not my first language so I wasn't really sure about right pronounciation.

Regarding 6:21, for those who are not familiar, "RP" is the abbreviation for Received Pronunciation which is how the Queen speaks her words.

Hi Jade, do you have a video on schedule, the word. With the k sound or without? Which one would you recommend or is there a posh version here too? Thank you for your videos.

As a Scot, I rarely pronounce the T in anything, it's just something that a lot of Scots seem to leave out of word when speaking e.g. Scolan instead of Scotland. It would be interesting to see a video from you analysing how Scots have cut corners while speaking

You CAN hear the T in Christian!

@nozecone

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you - I thought I was the only one who noticed.

@Solucan776

2 жыл бұрын

No , you can't . The "T" sound over there sounds like şş

@nozecone

2 жыл бұрын

@@Solucan776 LOL! Okay, Furkan, whatever you say; I mean, you would know better than us what we can and can't hear, wouldn't you?

@Solucan776

2 жыл бұрын

O didn't mean that ı would know better than you about what you heard 😅 . What I'm getting at is that oy supposed to be like this . Are we on the same page 🙂

@Solucan776

2 жыл бұрын

?

Amazing as always

Thanks for insights on different pronunciations.

Superb explanation, but I just question why you said christian has no T since it's pronounced with it?

Odd. I went to a rather upper class private school as a child, and was taught to pronounce the t in often, as well as cross my 7 and Z. Still do to this day, fifty years later.

@stratman9449

2 жыл бұрын

so why change it now...?

I enjoyed this! Well done!

Thanks, I am an old New Englander who remembers that the educated used " offen' and I did too. My question is: did you say that QEliz1 would have used "off for oft? I think the compelling argument for not saying the T sound is soften and fasten. Thank you!

My mother spent my whole childhood trying to convince me to drop the “T” in often. I still pronounce the “T”. Good thing I’m American and we really couldn’t care less.

I often say often and not often.

Thanks so much for uploading this lesson! It's not only useful, but also quite funny. ; )

I pronounce the 't' in Christian, apostle and epistle. Hastle and castle sound the same (no 'r' in them)- hassel/cassel - and fasten is fassen. I don't speak Standard English, I know, but the word 'standard' is a recognised 'norm', in this instance. It's not a standard to which one needs to aspire. So, I take exception with your use of the word 'correct'. However, this was very interesting.

Funny how that popped up on my KZread because I actually wondered if I'm dumber than I actually have thought because of that. I'm German and not long ago I realised a British actor pronounced it with the "T". Until then I thought it was just an American thing. Out of confusion I looked it up in an online dictionary and listened to the audio example and it also was pronounced with the "T". I really wondered if it was me and I had it wrongly in mind all these years but now, thank you, I know we indeed learned it without the "T" and first of all that it's not a fault I have to watch out for when speaking English.

My favourite English word (just to confirm im English) 100 years is a"century" 10 years is a "decade" My favourite word is the collective name of 5 years "Quincenuim" (quin-ken-e-um=)

@kayade5305

2 жыл бұрын

The spelling is 'quinquennium'.

@minigrande1939

2 жыл бұрын

@@kayade5305 thanks

@r.bernonensis5772

2 жыл бұрын

I've always called that a "lustrum."

This was so interesting to watch!!! Easy to understand

Yes, we want to hear more about the English language history. Very interesting.