Not an Octopus Customer join and split £100 with me evnick.com/energy Getting a heat pump SPLIT £200 with me and get £100 off your install use my unique referral code: 87680

@AndrewBrownEngTechTMIET

Ай бұрын

Sorry Nick did you mean an Eddi, energy diverter, the Harvi is the wireless ct device

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

@@AndrewBrownEngTechTMIET I did indeed slip of tongue

Really interesting. What this really highlights is the insanity of still allowing new homes to be built without heat pumps (and solar PV)

@bjorn2625

Ай бұрын

And the double insanity of allowing new houses to be built that have tiny microbore piping, making it extremely difficult to upgrade to heat pumps.

@bill_heywood

Ай бұрын

@@bjorn2625 great point

Just had a octopus daikin 6kw ASHP installed 3 weeks ago. New build with plastic micro bore. They replaced 6 rads & 3 towel rails, upgraded from single to double panels. 300 L water tank & volumizer for defrost cycles. Works really well & I had loads of fear about micro bore, very hot water & heating the house nicely on cold days. Quiet in operation & cost us less than £2k after bus grant. Usual very good service from Octopus, would highly recommend to anyone considering it

@JM1919MJ

24 күн бұрын

Just had the same at our house, cost £915 all in, they even swapped some of the pipes.

@beverleyhughes7863

23 күн бұрын

Hi can I ask what initial quotes were? No survey yet but they gave an initial quote for 4200 after grant for a 3 bed semi. Both yours sound very good prices

@alancusack8763

23 күн бұрын

Initial quote was £9700,, so came to £2,200, but dropped again to £1950 due to Daikin £250 discount. 9 radiators replaced, none of interior piping was changed. Ours was a relatively straightforward job, took the 4 days to commission

@JM1919MJ

23 күн бұрын

@@beverleyhughes7863quoted me £915 (that with the BUS taken off) 3 radiators replaced and some pipe work in a 3 bed semi that’s 10 years old.

@JM1919MJ

23 күн бұрын

Some people I’ve spoken to have got it all done for £500!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I have had similar "ugly" comments re my solar panels.. to me they all look beautiful, much better than gas boilers and generating power plants 😊

@waynecartwright-js8tw

Ай бұрын

yep an acidic boiler steam plume isn't good.

@MikeGleesonazelectrics

Ай бұрын

The thought of all that free sustainable energy makes me smile every time!

@Sithehandyguy-London

16 күн бұрын

I love my solar panels. A couple of my neighbours said they were ugly but I dont care. Even today, an overcast 'summers' morning, having coffee. The energy meter says I'm pushing a couple hundred Watts back into the grid and the base load appliances are all running for free.

1:48 "Instead of using hydrocarbons it uses propane gas" Propane has the chemical formula C3H8. It's LITERALLY a hydrocarbon! 😉

@RayCottam

25 күн бұрын

I think he meant propane is a better refrigerant than the hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) type refrigerants it replaces.

@djtaylorutube

25 күн бұрын

@@RayCottam Indeed, it wasn't well phrased and I got the point just that i'm being the pedant of the day ;)

Just booked an Octopus survey, timing of your video could not have been better. Thanks for putting this out!

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Pleasure there’s a code to split £200 with me pin’d at top

Thanks for the video. I spoke to them about a year ago and at the time I was told they couldn't put the buffer tank in the loft, so interesting to hear that it can now be done. They were also not too happy about the vermiculate loft insulation I had under the extra mineral wool layer (due to possible asbestos contamination).

You have highlighted some of the issues that I face with respect to the installation of an ASHP in my property. It will be interesting see what Octopus come up with and what you decide to do so I look forward to your future videos.

Thanks for making this video Nick. I'm about to have renovations done to my large bungalow. I'm considering a heat pump, would like underfloor heating if possible. I'll be watching your progress.

Very interesting with detail. It brought it all back for me - deciding where everything goes. The work you might be expected to do yourself is easily presumed to be something the installer will do so it's vital to go through things in detail and be ready on the day. Things like, a foundation and soak away for the heat pump, platform for the tank and access etc. I have heard of people fitting larger loft hatches or temporarily removing part of a ceiling. My loft hatch was large enough to get a 300 litre tank in and onto it's side but tilting it upright between roof rafters and supports onto its platform was a job and a half. It's platform bridges over two close solid brick walls so no structural issues at least. I had already boarded over much of my loft insulation and fitted a better light. You want to keep pipe run lengths to a minimum as much as possible to minimise heat loss and pressure drop from resistance. You ideally want to tee into the middle of your 22mm (probably where the boiler did) but so each flow and return 28mm split tees into two 22mm fanning out either way so the cross section surface area gets bigger. You don't want to neck down to 22mm and then fan out in 22mm like the boiler did. Heat pumps need a higher flow rate than a boiler to get the same kW output at a lower flow and return Δt of 5°C as opposed to a boiler's Δt of 11°C. So you don't want bottle necks. Have they mentioned a low loss header or buffer tank? Ideally you don't need one but they are often used with a secondary pump to make up for inadequacies in flow to ensure the heat pump can operate at Δt5° so it doesn't throw a flow rate error when the radiators can only manage Δt 8° or something because of flow restrictions. The two flow loops are hydraulically separated but mix in the buffer as required. Some heat pump manufacturers insist on low loss headers to avoid heat pump call outs but if the pipework is designed correctly you won't actually need one. I have one but the flow from the heat pump exits to the radiators at the same temperature and the same for the radiator return back to the heat pump. If my radiator loop was restrictive I'd see a differential temperature across the header which leads to inefficiency as you'll need a higher flow temperature from the heat pump to make up for the lower flow through the radiator loop. This "distortion" is best avoided. The less flow restrictions and the greater surface surface area of radiators the better as you can lower the flow temperature of the heat pump. Just because it can do a high temperature flow doesn't mean you should operate it like this. More input energy is required and that's what costs. Better to shift the same kW of free heat energy from the air at a lower temperature and higher flow rate requiring less input energy. Try and keep all your pipe runs in the heated envelope of the house to minimise loss. So under the loft insulation and all lagged. Pipes buried in walls etc may be a source of heat loss. I keep internal doors open and the whole house at the same temperature with the system permanently running. Zoning was more of a thing for boilers. Heat pumps are best working with all radiators fully on for the lowest flow temperature. If you switch off radiators it won't run as efficiently as it will tend to short cycle. It's a different mindset compared to boilers and the weirdest thing is having the radiators at body temperature of 37°C so they feel like a person and yet the house is warm in winter. It's a bit like having a house full of people to keep you warm. You are right about the Eddi solar diverter. It's much better to export the solar surplus these days with the more generous export rates. If you heat your water at night at cheap rate tariff you instantly have at least a two to one advantage in rates with an immersion heater and with a heat pump doing the heating more like a six to one advantage. The Eddi can still be of use to do the Legionella cycle and extra tank temperature monitoring. One other consideration for a public footpath facing heat pump is the defrost cycle making clouds of water vapour on a frosty morning. They might think your purple bin' s on fire 😉

I got an ASHP earlier this year, quotes from Dec 23 and I have the standard Daikin one and needed a storage heater. Works fine from my POV but with a relatively mild winter not easy to say if saves. However what I know is combined with agile that it works well from my POV and no reliance on gas and those who supply it.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing

@ianrob4760

Ай бұрын

should add with the 7.5K grant it cost me 6K extra but was a 5 day fit as not easy location for a lot of the kit.

Worth considering if its put outside of the wall, it could accidentally get damaged by kids playing or god forbid vandalised, incurring considerable costs further down the line. We made some compromises when choosing a place for ours. Originally wanted it on a first floor flat roof but they said no. Another location exceeded the primary pipework limit (10m I think) from unit to tank. So we put it in front of the kitchen (No windows) minimised interference with the space of the garden and no planning permissions needed etc and very importantly it's safe! We're happy with it and it performs really well. 11kw Daikin monobloc (silver/black grill) on average insulated, 6 bed semi.

@ChrisBrown-xf2ce

Ай бұрын

Yep, 10 meters max for the Daikin

@Etacovda63

Ай бұрын

with the amount of anti heatpump idiots around these days, i think vandalism is a real possibility

Thanks for sharing Nicolas. Enjoyable to watch, we are going through the same process trying to replace a combi with an ASHP, so good viewing. Liked and subscribed. It was probably a slip of the tongue, but you mentioned a Harvi as a solar diverter (24:40) which is actually the Myenergi Eddi. The Harvi is their wifi hub that wirelessly links the Myenergi devices. I suspect a slip of the tongue as the video slider says Eddi for that section. Not sure if you have experienced the Heatpunk website yet. For those of a more technical bent, this is a free online survey tool that allows you do conduct your own house measurements and input them into the Heatpunk website to produce your own survey report and ASHP recommendation. You can play with room temps, air changes per hour, flow temps, etc. Most won't care to undertake this effort, but for some of us it is of value to have a ball park to compare with when the installer survey comes in. This might be something worth mentioning in your next video?

Thanks for being honest about the extra costs involved regarding hp quotes.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

I’ll be documenting the whole thing on here, so far I’ve been very impressed with octopus service

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

To be fair to Octopus, they are producing a minimum cost product with the aim of having the maximum number of installs. Greg Jackson (Octopus CEO) is working very hard to make ASHP adoption as palitable as possible. The installation of these systems is so user-specific that you can understand why their budget quotes don't cover many additions that some installs might require.

@JM1919MJ

24 күн бұрын

Octopus just fitted mine, all in £915

Be interesting seeing a few installs of the cosy 6 before I buy one. I do wonder about the opening for the fan, I assume the fan is still mounted vertically rather than an angle (because that would be really daft, more likely vertical with ducting), but surely rain is going to collect in the opening, on heavy snow days it would become blocked? Although I'm sure it has drain holes and they will have mitigated this it appears to me to be an unnecessary design choice. I think with your particular home there are too many compromises, have you considered a wall mounted split unit like Vaillant aroTHERM split 5kw or 7kw. Pipework much smaller so less issues internally and shorter pipe runs so less heat loss.

Waiting for my Octopus Survey ATM. Actually pleasantly surprised by the extras. I was expecting I may need to pay extra even for surface pipes from existing boiler location to the new location. Im the opposite with boiler in loft and new location downstairs. Only hope they have white ducting by the time they get to me

Super tempting to sit on your hands for the cosy6

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

That’s what am doing

@Nashvillesky

Ай бұрын

I’m waiting for it - spoke to Octopus and they are going to contact me when the Cosy 6 is ready. I’ve got my quote on the current pump just to hold my interest on their system

@tonyfeasby1437

Ай бұрын

@@Nashvillesky are you expecting the quote to be the same/similar?

Just got a quote for a heat pump and running costs versus natural gas. Shocked, under the current tariff’s electricity charge would mean I would be worse off by £70 a year on top of the cost of installation, so no saving. I am not with Octopus and this was an independent survey. I am looking at propane bottles vs natural gas, so the gas daily charge of 28.191p and gas meter will go, I have only a combi boiler that needs gas.

@NicolasRaimo

14 күн бұрын

Octopus can quote for non customers

timely video there Nick,i was only on the phone to Octopus today about a unrelated matter and i asked them to email me a link for heatpumps, like you i have no hot water tank, but there was one that was removed when the combi was installed 20+ years ago, however the "cowboys" that installed the combi used micro bore pipes and channelled them into the solid stone walls (2ft 6inch thick), if i do get a heat pump i will run fresh 15mm pipe surface mounted/under floorboards, luckily i have space for a hot water tank in the cupboard that currently houses the combi boiler, ps my house was built circa 1800's so the majority is solid stone walls excepting the 2 extensions 1 side 2 storey(circa 1988) and the rear single storey extension (circa 2016), keep us posted on develpments :) :)

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

If you do go for a heat pump from octopus theres a Pin'd comment at top to knock another £100 off if it helps. What size microbore pipes did they put in 8mm or 10mm?

Great video. Really interesting. Have you seen the Dutch 'chimney' heat pumps? No idea if they are available over here but they might be a good solution for you. We are almost a year into our heat pump installation and really enjoying the system!

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

I’ve seen Bosch chimney Hp not a big fan of its look to be honest makes sense for a new build but I think structural support for mine be an issue plus I got solar panels on roof

@edwardlamb

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Fair points. Nothing's ever easy, is it?? It'll be worth it in the end though. Good work 🙂

Loks like 80:s tec. Modern heat pumps in sweden is one 60x60 cm indoor module 2m high, like a fridge. plus one outdoormodule. Compact and everything included.

According to the installation manual, the primary from the Daikin HP to the cylinder max length is 10 meters. You have plenty of room at the back of the house for the pump? I don't understand why Octopus offers solar diverters why would you want to heat via the immersion at an efficiency of 1 when I can use the heat pump & solar to heat the water at an efficiency of >2 allowing you to export more leccy or run more appliances from solar than you would using the diverter immersion heater. I must be missing something regarding the solar diverter

Hope it goes OK. Still in talks with Octopus trying to find a solution after planning refused. Might just have to wait until guidance changes

Thanks for vblog on survey Nick. Ive got a Daikin through octopus coming beginning of june. What spec Daikin is it your getting? The 6 or the 8kw? Assume the 6 if its cozy (red) 6. Also deliberating on what diverter approach with my solar and 9.5kw battery for water. Thinking of just leaving it out and exporting.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

I was spec'd 4kw but am not getting Daikin waiting for the COSY6 from Octopus them selfs!

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

video regarding solar diverting coming soon!

@digitalfantazia3953

Ай бұрын

Pity they aren't doing the higher spec cosy models yet. My heat loss is rated at 11kw so well outside the range. 125m sq, 1890s cottage, fully insulated but 9 foot ceilings. Still managed to get an EPC of B though with various countermeasures.

I am amazed by the small id of those connections! Here in the Netherlands we usually start at 13 mm id, so 15 mm copper or 16mm steel or unicore.😮

@haroldpeperkamp2030

9 күн бұрын

Also, no attic since the ‘70s looks like that!! Insulation is in the roof so any installations are inside the heated “shell” and not exposed to outside cold which puts a strain on the pipes and boiler vat own insulation. (Affecting heat loss.) The cold water intake of the boiler is also vulnerable to condensation which can cause corrosion damage from water creeping unseen under insulation. Only completely sealed Armaflex of the right thickness will protect from intruding water vapor throughout the summer when humidity is high.

@Nicholas I’d use LoftZone loft floor kits. You don’t want to end up with your insulation being compressed cos it will damage the thermal efficiency

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Already looking at similar kits

We had our survey recently too the paper work arrived Friday, let me know if you want to compare notes. The biggest standout for me was the design flow temperature of 50C targeting a SCoP is 3.34 (334%). Reducing the flow temperature like 40C could result in a higher SCoP (4.04) but might require additional radiator changes. The proposed hot water cylinder is also steel rather than copper

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

If you not signed final paperwork yet you can add my refferal code to get £200 split with me giving an extra £100 off if that helps

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

This is the downside to Octopus quotes. They are budget focussed to get ASHP installs more widely adopted. This unfortunately also means they are not the highest performance systems available. However, the installation cost is so low that you are hard pushed to get a high quality intall (like a Heat Geek Elite system) to be justifiable. The savings of a SCOP 4 - SCOP 5 system over a SCOP 3.3 system would take many years to recoup. From an environmental point of view, getting homes on a SCOP 3.3 system from a gas boiler are a massive step and you can see where Octopus are putting their energy.

@rjpearce

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo referral code applied. 👍

Great video, I'm right at the start of my journey with Octopus and solar/heat pumps, thought that it might be better to get solar panels first to offset the difference between electric/gas prices but much more expensive to get panels so maybe better to get a great pump first since it would be on par with gas due to COP 4 anyway and we don't know how long the subsidy will last however the option you mentioned to have the pump connected to solar makes me wonder if this could be done retrospectively if I got a heat pump and then solar later? 🤯 such a lot to think about and juggle, really grateful for these videos.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Don't forget you can add my referral link to save another £100 off your octopus quote!

It's a good shout on the radiators, I assumed my house would be copper pipe and tapped off which does help with the presumed problem - though I haven't lifted my floorboards yet, the signs are good. Loft hatches between the rafters - good old new builds, mine is like that, you only get just under 600mm to play with in new builds, you can make them longer but not wider without pretty serious complications. NGL I'm not personally a fan of tanks (and really any infrastructure, particularly water-containing infrastructure) in my loft. Yeah, you'll probably never have a problem with it, but when you do the problems tend to be relatively quite serious - and you have to get the heat up there to start with which is relatively lossy. I'm holding off on heat pumps on two basis - firstly that if permitted development rights allow larger volume units there might be a flood of new products that are more efficient (larger volume = larger heat exchanger = more efficient). Secondly, exhaust air heat pumps really appeal to me because my new build is super efficient, and I want to take heat that gathers at the top of my (3-story) house and put it back in at the ground floor and tap it off excess, plus the ventilation. With an EAHP I might be able to tear out my radiators entirely and not have to worry about the pipework nonsense. Both of those markets are going to take time to develop, and I think I'm going to wait for that. On tanks - I have a huge space under my stairs that only has an ironing board and my server rack that could easily be used for a water tank, somebody should really make a wedge-shaped one that could go there.. In re putting a heat pump unit next to the pavement like that, I honestly don't think I would want it where people could vandalise it as they walk past anyway, people be people, doesn't matter how nice the area is.

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

Wedge shaped tank would be a really interesting concept.

Not pleased with Octopus at present - Got an initial quote which was great and then had to delay slightly to get an EPC done - Came back with an EPC rating of B which is great - However, I've since had no reply to several emails from my Octopus consultant and they never called me on a scheduled call, so I'm now in limbo with no idea how to progress - Thanks Octopus!

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

drop me a message via my website lets see if we can nudge it along for you!

add a light on your on connected with an extension cable and a switch - lot cheaper and should work. I still wonder what amount you end up with cause here in germany we changed our attitude too and add aditionally to the oil central heating a heatpump that is sg ready which stands for surplus energy from the roof. And we start simply by adding or replacing the heatpump first and then look afterwards which radiators have to be replaced . this way you will get what you really need and we get a 12 kW mono block heatpump based on propan with wlan and home assistand integration fro just 2400€ without subsidies and 500€ for installation, so about 2700 GBP incl vat If I want subsidies I have to do more paperwork and so on and would endup around 1600 € or 1400 GBP We have here a lot of german and european heatpump vendors but a lot are also getting chinese heatpumps and theses also have energy labels and are on a qualification list for subsidies which means they have to show a cop of 3 or higher. Our choice has a COP of 3,15 and a SCOP of 3,75 where the SCOP is the only one that matters cause it is based on an average year and average home so that these figures are comparable across al manufacturers. Therefore a lot of manufacturers will try to hide the SCOP and advertise with all the COP for a7 or a10 and 35 °C output, not the usual radiator of 55°C we are used with oil and gas central heatings. World best heatpump achieves 4,5 SCOP and ours is just 3,75 which means we will need 20% more energy but we do not care cause our kWh price is 28 cent, off peak is 20 cent and 8 cent our money we get for feeding, so about 15 cent by average during heating period. If we use 3000 kWh with the world best heatpump then we could expect and to use 600 kWh more which would meand 75€ a year or 60 GBP. Does not make sense to pay 12500€ or more for the worlds best heatpump if I can save 10.000 by this 1 decision only if you can save just 75€ . Not even 100€ or 200€ would ever pay back in lifetime . If the cheap chinese would run just 5 years we could easily bug a new one. And chinese are not sstupid, cause they learned their lesson and only got the quite expensive EU homologation cause they are ready to deliver spare parts and even manual for use and an installation manual each over 100 pages long. AND they learned that panasonic builds the best compressors and danfoss the controls therefore they are using these important parts from major brands. I can only suggest to look twice and do all the stuff on your own cause you can not loose much assuming your are not living on the islands up in the norths like scapa flow or so where it is colder. We have installed that in a house built in 1970 with 200 m² of space and about 180 m² heated with a 25 kWp solar power roof and a 15 kWh battery. We also added a water heat pump to increase efficiency with a heat exchanger or coil from Atlantic made in france which was even more expensive than the whole heatpump (paid 2100€) Here in germany octopus would have no chance with such expensive offers even though they have also entered the german energy market and battling with tibber from norway. Right now they are not succeeding cause only a few know Octopus from the UK, but who knows if they can lower the prices things might change, but no one would trust a british company to do all the jobs in their home by hiring subcontractors for cheap cause we have already many complaints from a similiar business where the home owner can rent a solar power system on his roof and will own that after 20 years or so where the cost will end up in twice the price or by hding costs for an ev wallbox. They get it for free for 2 years and will pay just 35€ for such charger - each month. 7500€ for a wallbox in total - and I doubt that it would even last 10 years, most die after 6 year of usage.

Hi Nick great video you have giving me lots of positive thoughts on positions of heat pump water cylinder and radiators. I signed up and paid my £500 last December and waiting for the cosy 6 survey. Have you any idea when they are starting installs. Many thanks Dave

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Hey David depends where in country you are as engineers need to be trained for cosy6, PS if you haven't signed final contract yet post top of this video we can split £200 between us

@davidschofield2124

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Hi Nick thanks for your reply, yes I will use your link many thanks.

I placed a £500 deposit with Octopus way back in October 2023 for a solar/battery install and a heat pump...the survey for the Solar was eventually done 26th April, the Heatpump 4th March....I'm still awaiting their quotes to arrive, so I wouldn't hold your breath for your quote arriving within a week Nick! I too have a new build, very new, we moved-in Nov 23, so super insulated, ideal for a heatpump. I have had quotes fom other companies... a local one quoted £3300 for a vaillant, British gas quoted £ 628 for a Dakin. Like yourself Nick, im particularly interested in the Cosy 6, but it looks to be a way off yet, so I am in a quandry whether to just go ahead with the heatpump from BG or wait for the cosy 6 in the hope that it will be installed before tnext winter. The added complecation is that I intended for the storage battery to be installed in the garage where my gas boiler is, so i'd need the heat pump installed before the solar. I have subscribed to your channel, so im looking forward to the update video about your Octopus enquiry.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Got the final heat pump survey and final sales contract 7 days after the heat loss servery all signed and awaiting for the cosy6 video on the final results coming soon! PS if you haven't signed final contact yet you can use my referral code if you want me to give octopus a nudge on getting final contract drop me an email

Great video. Still think you should go with a Heat Geek Elite survey, utilise open energy monitor to be on the heat pump leaderboard and run the HG Newark heat pump cylinder. I see the appeal in the Cosy 6 and its low cost but designing then running an efficient low temperature system is a lot more interesting.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Online quote for a heat geek elite is £7500 after grant, Octopus is £1300 even with the higher SCOP from HG it would take around 12 years to see that payback in investment by then the heat pump could of been replaced and tech could of moved MUCH further along. I'll likely be fitting open energy monitor to my system anyway as makes it more interesting for my channel and videos. PS am not dismissing what heat geeks do but for a small dwelling like my self and limited heat demand the cost difference is FAR too much

@BassPunk

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo @HeatGeek Co-lab video would be enlightening for all us new build owners wanting to switch 🤔

Hi Nicolas, not sure about the other things but I might have a solution for your additional radiator for your kitchen. I plan to get heat pump in near future(after PV upgrade) and plan to get rid of some of the ugly ad always in a way radiators in kitchen and living room. For kitchen there is a water feed plinth heater. Since your boiler is already there there wouldn’t be much work required for plinth haters(except that you need a weak power source, low voltage power or just. Normal electric connection). Btw ther are some plinth heaters with wireless conectivity to HA and likes! And for he living room there are heating skirting boards to buy. Not sure if this would solve some of your problems but maybe a good idea.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

For now a small rad there isn’t too much issue so I’ll go for that, I did think of a plinth heater though!

@rico4229

Ай бұрын

How about rads with booster fan? ... Pro's and con's ... ?

Not sure how far your install has gone, but have you heard of a Sunamp? I believe I read they make an outdoor vertion of thier hot water battery, so this might save you all this extra cost by having the hot water in hte kitchen or outside, and yes they work well with ASHP and they do a 250L vertion as well.

@NicolasRaimo

24 күн бұрын

Octopus don't offer sunamp

With regards to the boarding of the loft. Bear in mind, a walkway will have to be left in place for an engineer to service the cylinder annually.

We came up to the cylinder too wide for loft hatch conundrum. Hopefully there's an ashp on the way that can heat water on demand. Even if the running costs go up because there hasto be an additional heating element, it would solve so many problems for our UK homes, where space is often at a premium. Oh and time to prize apart the relationship between gas pricing and electric.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

There’s some other solutions out there which ain’t hot water tanks!

@martinwray7001

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo tease! Seriously, ashp for rads, then ashp with electric boost for taps, showers, baths could just be a simple swap for a combi boiler But good luck getting a grant for it.

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

@@martinwray7001 sunamp heat batteries for instance. Take the heat pump output so afaik they do qualify for the grant.

@martinwray7001

Ай бұрын

@@JohnR31415 but still a big lump to put somewhere.

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

@@martinwray7001yes - because storing heat is always going to allow more efficient heating than running very high power heating. Similar space to the boiler…

Had a British Gas ASHP survey for my 7 year old 4 bed new build. Shocked they came out with £14k on top of the £7k Grant! They proposed 10kw Valliant (fine) but then replacing all 13 radiators (over spec methinks for their ‘warm home promise’ 1 year guarantee).

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Try octopus see what they say and compare the 2 on what they spec, you can also snag another £100 off when you split £200 with me on refferal code in pin’d comment

I'm interested in the cosy fan being on an angle as most heatpump noise issues usually happen when the unit isn't upright with a wonky base causing noise 🤷‍♂️ Has the cosy got extra special bearings 🤔

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

that be because the fan is mounted to be at that angle rather than on an angle if this fan is mounted to be at this tilt it be fine as long as the base of the unit is level

@vindeballs1

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Not convinced... I need a scientist to explain the forces involved and proven longevity of this angled fan malarkey 🤷‍♂️

We had a quote from octopus for a heat pump (11,000 - 7000) £4000. We have an average sized 3 bed house. Wish we were quoted £500!

@NicolasRaimo

24 күн бұрын

its going to depend on your EPC and other details they gather during survey

I have installed many combi systems so listening to your account of the need for bigger radiators, tank in the loft, insulation and lights in the loft, pipes up the wall ,restrictions on the location of the HP unit, hiding pipes int eh walls and so much more - I have calculated that it will cost you about £18,000 less any grants. For what? What actually does a HP achieve which is more cost effective than a modern combi which can be installed in a day. Because a combi is only costing when it is running - ie for hot water in the summer. and when the house is cold in the winter. Gas is half the price of electricity.

@JM1919MJ

24 күн бұрын

Took octopus 4 days to install mine at a cost of £915 all in, we now have no gas whatsoever and had the meter taken out and it’s so far a lot cheaper, they swapped some radiators, all labour, new water tank, the heat pump, the lot, also it only kicks in when the water drops to a certain temperature just like a gas boiler does. We needed a new boiler cos ours was 10 years old and constantly breaking down so it was a choice of £3k for a new boiler fitted or £915 for a heat pump and I’m so glad I went for the heat pump

@peterjones6322

21 күн бұрын

Many people don't want to burn gas anymore and the planet needs so many more people to think that way.

Boarding your loft brings other advantages, you can use the space for extra storage. Why not install two 150 litre DHW tanks instead of one 200 litre tank?

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Agreed boarding my loft does give me an area for my model train set or a scalextric set for my little one

That sounds like a lot of issues to address. Have you considered a Tepeo ZEB boiler. Same flow temperature in the radiators as your gas boiler. No need to change any radiators.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

thats an electric boiler won't hit efficiency or cost of a heat pump

@jonathangoss396

Ай бұрын

Yes it is an electric boiler. You need to compare total cost of both options. Just add a few more solar panels to compensate for the electricity costs. In addition with Intelligent Octopus Go I'm getting 11.5hrs @ 7.5p/KWh. Just a thought.

Hi Nick. A very interesting video as usual! I had an online quote from Octopus yesterday, so your video is very timely. I've got micropore to many of my radiators from a manifold under a bedroom floor. Even though the Cosy 6 will work with my setup, I think it has to run hotter to counteract the microbore. That means the efficiency (SCOP) will be less, so the running costs of the system will be more expensive than the gas boiler system is. I think this means that I'll have to have new pipework. Is that something Octopus will do (as an extra cost) or would I need to get that done before the install? Also, you said the Harvi is a solar diverter, but it isn't. The Harvi is a hub. The solar diverter is the Eddi (I know because I've got one!). Anyway, thanks for another really interesting video Nick

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Hi Phil octopus designed for 50c flow for all systems when the outside temp is -2.3c for my area it’s likely I’ll be able to dial this down but this flow temp is 1p more than gas but gas is 90% efficiency so it’s price parity maybe cheaper that’s run at 28.5p peak rates for intelligent if you used octopus off peak rate as well it’s well under gas! Cost6 doesn’t need to run hot it’s just able to but for micro of 10mm it’s fine. Another video is due with this info

@philreilly6959

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo That's great. Thanks for the reply and the info Nick

Heaven forbid you want something done properly and to a decent standard (pipes not running up the outside of a wall). Even worse if you have a request that's not "standard". I'd recommend looking into Aria as a comparison.

Think I'll stick with a boiler for now. Maybe if I get solar and a few batteries, I'll get an electric boiler, but I'll not be getting a heatpump. There is way too many pipes and stuff involved I have no space for the tank in my house, I would need to build a lean too nevt to the house and that's just extra work that I couldn't justify.

I previously read that the UK and regional parliaments intend to gradually equalize the unit price between electricity and gas over the coming years. It was buried in one their respective buildings heat strategy documents from a few years ago and I don't think this has changed.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

this been a long term plan since the war started and the energy price madness started, currently we use gas to generate some electricity this inflates the cost of electricity to be very expensive, what we will see is this unlinked from electric wholesale costs and wind/solar used as the price factor instead.

Waving those arms around, thought you were landing aircraft on the side! Lol 😝 I’m all for these when the price of electric becomes affordable again!

What about hard water minerals in the water

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

How would that differ from a boiler?

@user-oj1ri5ld3x

Ай бұрын

Build up from hard water in if have hard water, minerals in the water or you must have a filter for your system anyway I live in the united states'of America Modesto CALIFORNIA

I would be bloody annoyed if as the neighbour I had to have your heat pump closer to my bedrooms than it was to yours regardless of the dB which can change over time 😀

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

So your be equally annoyed by a gas boiler in the same location?

@JM1919MJ

24 күн бұрын

My heat pump is close to my bedroom window and I can’t hear it, it’s nearly silent.

I was quite keen to have a heat pump however with 8mm microbore pipes these would need replacing at a cost of £2500 so it’s a non starter for me unfortunately

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Hopefully a solution for you might be possible some other heat pump installers can likely do it with different system designs even now depending on heat loss

What about the extra room you have to have to fit all the components in?

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

you mean the loft.....

@nickosullivan5456

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo no I mean the room to house all the workings. I was trying to get my wife interested in a heat pump on the baxi stand at electric show. she says we going backwards when she's got a combi boiler that goes in a little cupboard.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

@@nickosullivan5456 you mean flow temperature? Why does that matter if house is warm

@nickosullivan5456

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo no I mean you need a small room for everything to go in. I'm not explaining it very well

@ma40

Ай бұрын

@@nickosullivan5456 Do you mean a plant room? The Daikin and Cosy6 will be monobloc designs so most of the workings are in the external unit. Any expansion vessels, buffer tank and hot water cylinder will be in the loft. Nick will get an additional empty kitchen cupboard in the process - the one housing the boiler.

Internal diameter of 8mm copper is larger than that of 10mm plastic.

@grantmidd

12 күн бұрын

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought this.

Daikin's don't seem to be as efficient as Vailant's. I'd be tempted to wait and see what results the Cosy 6 gets or go with British Gas who supply Vailants.

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

I agree with the comment on Vailant being a better system. However, British Gas phoned me the day before my survey stating some pretty unviable conditions. Despite me having all 22mm and 15mm copper pipework and some under concrete floors they stated that they would replace the entire heating pipework in the house and surface mount wherever there was a concrete floor. Additionally they insisted they needed 1m access width down the side of the property to get the ASHP to the back, while I only have 850mm. The ASHP is only 700mm wide, so maybe their fitters are extra large gents? Sorry to whine, but British Gas let me down with a 'no' the day before the survey, after waiting 5 weeks for them to come.

@B0jangle5

Ай бұрын

@@Ben-gm9lo Thanks for the info. I haven't started looking for quotes yet as I still have some upgrades to do but I'd be annoyed with that service too.

@djewson

Ай бұрын

Had our survey done a couple of weeks ago. All seemed good, house is a 7 year old new build and heat loss he said was one of the better ones he'd done. System was designed and we spoke about placement for the ASHP outside. With 2 options On coming back to me last week, both installs will require planning permission as 1 is within 1m of the boundary (even though other side of the 6 ft wall is footpath) The other option puts me 0.1db over the 42db permitted development allowance limit. So annoyed right now for the sake of 0.1db if only octopus offered an alternative ashp that was better than 58db at full tilt. Cost for planning will be around £4-500 with no guarantee of passing. So i think we're going to give it a miss. We live in a 4 bed detached on the end of the street with neighbours only to one side, so have a decent size plot to install on. So how the hell are those in semi's and terraced going to be able to get one fitted. Answer - they're not. The mcs20 is a joke and needs serious overhaul. 42db is almost silent Quieter than a fridge freezer. If the government want these things to be the future they need to amend the planning farce.

@bluejay9296

4 күн бұрын

Good luck with Daikin after service! Good heat pumps when they work. Vaillant are very good with their after service and if you have an issue, plus have a very good deal with OVO for cheap electricity

Thanks for video, interesting points but i woukd never assume all those personal preferences wouod be done for free! I mean kitting out yr loft, you really expect that done for free? And chasing in pipes.. you seem a finicky customer which is fair enough but i sont see how you would expect all these labour intensive options are done for free, we alk need to make a living you know! Aside from that, i had a vaillant ashp fitted by B Gas, new pipes, new rads, all surface boxed in and very neat. Works well and very efficient, well pleased and an interest free monthly payment of £140.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Hey Mike, I didn't expect them to broad my loft out for free but I also didn't expect to broad out my loft am more raising awareness this might need to be done. Regarding chasing pipes many installs will include this it would of been nice for octopus to offer a PAID option for them to do it rather than my self again I get octopus quote is to hit a target price but sometimes options are nice.

@MikeGleesonazelectrics

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo ANY work in loft really requires boarding, even TV or sky fitter would request this.. anyway it's good to do, think of all the storage space plus extra insulation..

Maybe I misunderstood what you're planning to do but surely using the heat pump to heat hot water is more efficient than using solar / battery to heat it via an immersion heater?

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Course it is... thats what the heat pump will do and store in the cylinder

@bluejay9296

4 күн бұрын

A hell of a lot more efficient, but it can be a lot cheaper! 300% efficient @ 20p/kw vs 100% efficient @0p/kw if you have a solar diverter

I'd be concerned about somebody nicking the ashp if it is in such a "remote" location.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

It’s a very special and odd item to steal, it’s heavy, would take some time to remove and requires a level of skill to refit

Choose an air to air heat pump system instead , much cheaper to install and maintain.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Air to air would cost far more as no grant from government and I’d still need a method for hot water

@AndrewEbling

Ай бұрын

Also tempted by this as you also get cooling in summer.

@antwnpowell

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo An air/air system is much cheaper to install, heat your water using immersion heater, coupled with solar thermal. And you get cooling in the summer. Works fine for me.

@briangriffiths114

Ай бұрын

That is something that I am considering as well for the future, amongst other technologies.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

@@antwnpowell air to air would cost a lot more than the £1300 octopus charging after grant

Those temperatures seem on the warm side to me.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

What room temps? I live in a modern 4 bed detached I like to feel warm in my home that's why I brought a well insulated house

@rico4229

Ай бұрын

As well as your central thermostat , You will usually have thermostatic rad valves fitted , so you can adjust down the design temps for individual rooms if they are too warm. Easy ...

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

@@rico4229 with heat pumps your advised not to use trv

@rico4229

Ай бұрын

When mine was fitted they put TRV's on , saying best to keep them fully open , but can tweak down in some rooms if necessary... Works very well...

So basically it's a total new installation with all the additional mess that goes with it. The heat pump will be a disappointment if it doesn't work in the winter after doing all that.

@NicolasRaimo

20 күн бұрын

How wouldn’t it work? It’s a proven technology run my rads at 60c now with these upgrades it’s an easy switch

As a plumber and heat pump installer, I'm surprised that you are surprised that extra work costs extra money. Also, I've never seen octopus to do a £800 heat pump install (as advertised) for £800.

@JM1919MJ

24 күн бұрын

Cost us £915 for the lot

why don't you put the DHW tank in the garage?

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

garage isn't connected to home its 20 meters away...

@ecoterrorist1402

Ай бұрын

​@@NicolasRaimo is the ASHP final is located near the garage? yes i know but factor in the weight in the loft, pipes running up the loft, all pipework can go in the ground Flow & return heating, cold water main and flow return loop on water this could be on a timer. just thinking outside of the box. i have a wood boiler in my garage with 1000l buffer, 40meter run works well for me.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

@@ecoterrorist1402 there’s zero viable path to garage

@ecoterrorist1402

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo np, looking forward to the next update.

Hmmm ugly pipes running along the outside of the house. Can't the tee into the boiler pipework already there? Will reduce the ugly pipework on the outside

@NicolasRaimo

24 күн бұрын

boiler is middle of house wall where the kitchen is and I'd see pipe work in my garden then

@AndyJHiscock

21 күн бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo I was surprised the solution the surveyor suggested - 5 stars to him. Chasing the pipework up the side of the house beside a downpipe, in though the eaves into the attic space dropping down to the airing cupboard where the tank is. Just hope the estate management company approves

@NicolasRaimo

21 күн бұрын

@@AndyJHiscock I don’t have eves on my build and house is reconstituted stone so can’t chase into it

What's stopping you from putting it under the windows facing into the garden? Aesthetics? Seen a few installs like that and they don't really stick out once they've bedded in a bit, garden looks large enough that you wouldn't need to worry about recirculating cold air, might just need to extend the patio by a foot. Can understand if aesthetics is a deal breaker there, it's your house after all, and compared to the regular boxy heat pumps you wouldn't look twice at I think the purple Octopus heat pump is ugly as sin. Sorry if you answered that during the video, watched it and only thought about it during the drone shot at the end...and I'm not rewatching 25 minutes 😂

Sorry Nick but high temperature heat pumps are not something you want. You get high performance at low temperatures, and although refrigerants like propane can go high. If you like money, you don't want them to have to. Propane is still a hydrocarbon too, a naturally occurring one at that.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Hey Lewis as mentioned it CAN go high but they won't be running it past 55c design flow

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

I concur with your comment on efficiency, but Octopus is priced to maximise market uptake, not produce efficient systems. As you say, propane is a hydcrocarbon, but here it is just the R290 'refrigerant' used in the ASHP. It isn't used up, it just recirculates. Even in the event of a system leak there is only around 1kg in it and propane is many orders of magnitude less damaging to the environment (CO2 equiivalent) bthan the previous refrigerant (R32). This is worlds away from actually burning the stuff to produce heat.

Weird discussion and priorities

I have 8mm microbore, so happens when gas boilers are banned

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

There may be a solution by then or you might need to re pipe

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

Octopus are refusing to undertake installs on 8mm pipework. This doesn't mean ASHP cannot work with 8mm, but it might need an experienced installer to design a solution that works efficiently. Octopus are working hard to install fast and cheap. Others might have a more bespoke solution.

He should have mentioned that the vertical rads are not as effective as horizontal.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Its built into the heat loss calcs

R290 (propane) is not a new thing, most manufacturers are moving to R290.

I just use a worklight on a lead in my loft. LED battery lights pretty good these days too.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

I guess the argument is there be up there for days and a main light source is needed

Blimey - they really do go hot on the design temp… I’ve got better than a heat loss calculation- more than a year of gas usage data, with flow/return temperatures monitored as well. I know what my power requirements are, and that’s an over estimate since I’m assuming my gas boiler is 100% efficient.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Really impressive the detail they go to takes any panic and worry away and the time they spend with you is really good no rushing

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo yep. Definitely good to do it properly - I just know what the answer ought to be, since I have the real world data, which is going to be better than any model. Boiler on absolutely minimum temperature for 18month now - flow temp gets up to about 40-45 usually, return temp is (once the water has been round once) only about 5-8 degrees colder…

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

@@JohnR31415 Totally concur, they are not desiging the most efficient system. But Octopus are not targetting the most efficient system. They are working hard to make ASHP conversion as cheap as possible. Their CEO's aim is to get as many homes as possible moved from gas to ASHP.

Sounds like a lot of effort when you still have a serviceable gas boiler.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

£1300 plus this extra work small price to pay when you consider if my boiler fails I’ll be in a panic/rush for an install at any cost

Re the tank issue, have you considered a slimline Mixergy smart tank? 210 ltrs with heat exchanger for heat pump, will fit through your loft hatch

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Am at the mercy of what octopus fit they have a slimline tank that will fit via my loft hatch so thats what will be going in. I've contacted mixergy in past to work on some content but they never got back to me sadly!

@womensphysique

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo That's a shame. I had my old copper cylinder replaced with a Mixergy tank. It costs me a fraction of what I used to pay as it heats what I want rather than the whole tank, and I can see what is in the tank at any time. Over this weekend, Octopus paid me 3 KWH to heat my tank on Octopus Agile. I'd probably just get one installed and let Octopus do their thing as then you would already have a hot water tank, but I appreciate that if Octopus include a tank in their quote, it may be best to go with want they supply.

@anyuone

Ай бұрын

Just had my survey & similar issues. Have you considered having a Sunamp thermal store instead of a hot water tank? It will be an extra cost but we are really struggling with space for a tank. It wouldn’t go in the loft though as it needs to be floor mounted but they are an amazing option.

I would be concerned about vandalism if its next to public walkway

@NicolasRaimo

18 күн бұрын

I live in a nice area but why would someone vanderlise it… my cars outside

Think you’ve just persuaded me not to use Octopus Energy to install a heat pump.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Why that? Other quotes I got were past 7500 after grant

@Ben-gm9lo

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Indeed, Octopus are offering amazing install prices.

@bluejay9296

4 күн бұрын

Pay for what you get, Octopus have just had a massive requirement drive. It will take time for them to weed out poor installers

I think I will stick to my Combi boiler, hot water on-demand and piping hot radiators had my hot water tank taken out 25 years ago and don't want another thanks, I will make sure I have another before the ban and that should see me out

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

Why? Because you can’t conceive of the benefits of planning? Who cares what temperature their radiators are - surely it’s the room temperature you care about?

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Why waste energy with hot radiators….

@Aretec

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo why waste energy heating water you may not use

Can’t see the point of all the work and expense, they don’t work very well and costs will never be made up.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

How can you say that with zero evidence looking at figures provided by octopus your incorrect follow my story and see for yourself

@glideman

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo so you’re going off the figures supplied by the company selling you all this stuff? My mother in law has had this stuff fitted and the problems she had were terrible. She can’t even use her garden now, even after they moved it further down the garden because of the fan noise. You’re never going to get your money back, it’s just a waste of money.

Wow - so complicated! At what point do you say "enough is enough - I'll stick with gas!"?

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

If I already had a cylinder I wouldn’t need any of this extra work…. Worth pointing that out

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

You don’t - because education is a thing. My simulation shows a clear benefit, when the boiler packs up I’m getting a heat pump and water tank.

@AndrewEbling

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo frustrating thing is, we used to have a hot water cylinder but the installer pushed us down the combi boiler route when we replaced the boiler 5 years ago (very little awareness of heat pumps in this country back then). I've wondered about redoing the whole downstairs with underfloor heating if we ever go over to a heat pump, since I believe the floor is now the least insulated part of our house, and we could fix that at the same time.

@Lesjaye

Ай бұрын

You can’t use any old existing HW cylinder, It is much more complex & larger in order to cope with lower flow temps. Also has control valves all over the place & sometimes buffer tanks. Pipework looks like an oil refinery!

@Lesjaye

Ай бұрын

Thanks to complications such as described in this video, particularly MCS20 regs….I said enough is enough & am having new combo boiler fitted next week. REALLY wanted a HP system but impossible in a mid terraced house due to proximity of neighbours etc. Besides noise calculations, high temp ashp use propane (r290?) & need to be farther away from opening doors & windows due to flammability.😫

With respect….which North Sea Gas Platform is the propane going to come from to fill and re-fill your not so eco friendly Cosy 6 whilst hoping it does not get vandalised or stolen from a public path. Stick with gas mate…

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

Yes, because using 1kg of propane for the lifetime of the heat pump is clearly worse than burning literal tons of methane.

@AndrewEbling

Ай бұрын

Isn't propane also produced during the petrol refining process? A heat pump will contain miniscule amounts - probably a small fraction of what you'd use in a single gas BBQ.

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

They contain less than a tea cup of propane and unless there’s an issue where it leaks it should last the lifetime of the product

@wajopek2679

Ай бұрын

Yes, propane can be obtained through fractionation of crude oil or direct from gas wells. It has an expansion ratio of 1:270

@crm114.

Ай бұрын

You don’t know what you are talking about! The amount of propane in an ASHP is tiny and losses are small. Heat pumps are 5x more effiacient than a gas boiler. Wake up!

As usual aways do your homework.

So essentially don’t bother…for now !

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

What a weird takeaway - don’t bother saving money because it takes more than a couple of seconds of thought

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

Steve it’s a few extra tasks and boarding the loft out will benefit me

@stevenbarrett7648

Ай бұрын

@@NicolasRaimo Yes I think thats easy enough to do but the external pipe work and boxing in etc plus larger / more radiators noise from the unit….maybe in a few years. Don’t get me wrong I would jump at dumping gas especially with being forced to pay two standing charges gas & electric so would love a heat pump but not to the detraction of my home. I am looking at moving and buying a total make-over house so we might revisit the subject in 2025 when we can start the build with a clean sheet

@NicolasRaimo

Ай бұрын

@@stevenbarrett7648 the rad upgrades are pretty minor I’ve got a video with the full report in coming weeks

@JohnR31415

Ай бұрын

@@stevenbarrett7648 noise from the unit is quite possibly less than the noise from the gas boiler it replaces…