I never even thought of hydrogen power for trains. It makes so much more sense than for cars, but I still think it makes more sense to just electrify the line, no matter how cool hydrogen power sounds.

@christopheroverbeck3662

7 ай бұрын

Especially because hydrogen is anything but emissions free.

@mucklavision731

7 ай бұрын

In Germany BEMUs have mopped the floor with hydrogen trains on every occasion, they are cheaper both in required infrastructure and vehicles by over 50%. Even though they are younger in terms of available prototype and earlier in their development cycles they already are leagues more reliable. Overhead wire could be easily added to Redlands part of the track not shared with freight for a fraction of the cost of a hydrogen service station.

@electricar9

7 ай бұрын

​@mucklavision731 Battery Electric Multiple Unit trains would be better and safer than hydrogen trains. I work in the Electric Vehicle industry and even the employees at the oil companies say hydrogen is more dangerous to work with than oil, gasoline, and other fuels. Electric motors and batteries are a lot more reliable. 😊

That's a brave man, standing outside in San Bernardino to get footage.

I love riding metrolinks arow line!! Even more so now that K-12 SoCal students and college students ride for free!!🎉

@HeStoned05

7 ай бұрын

Thought one of my favorite Metrolink lines is the IEOC line it’s beautiful being right along the water

Stadler diesel-electric multiple units have the opportunity to become the modern American interurban with lower capital cost compared to other forms of rail transit.

@TohaBgood2

7 ай бұрын

I like the future that you're painting there!

@hobog

7 ай бұрын

The opportunity's been open since maybe njt's camden-trenton lrt started. It's various governments and agencies that need to better use these trains, enact decent frequencies and tod

I moved to San Bernardino about a year and a half ago. My wife and I took the MetroLink to LA a few month ago when we needed to go to a consulate. It was a big and loud 2 decker trains and nothing we're used to in Japan. I did use it once again last month so I can drink responsibly. It took way more time than car but was okay. It was free for me as a grad student. I plan to take the Arrow to Redlands in a week, again to drink responsibly.

@neonaaron

6 ай бұрын

oh the arrow trains are quiet and such a joy to ride! you’ll love it

@AssBlasster

6 ай бұрын

damn that must be a downgrade moving to San Bernardino from Japan

I rode this train, the cars are beautiful. They should look into going down to Riverside since there’s only one train that goes mid afternoon down that corridor.

@todddammit4628

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, and Riverside is the WORST for traffic. Nothing like trying to crawl through the 60 during rush hour.

SPRINTER between Oceanside and Escondido is much more impressive than ARROW. Sprinter is more than twice as long, it runs every 30 minutes most of the time, and the fare is the same as the local bus service. Sprinter uses Siemens Desiro DMU trains that are older and less impressive than the new Stadler FLIRT trains. Because Sprinter is unaffected by street traffic, it is extremely reliable.

They really show make these diesel Stadler units a standard across America

@mrxman581

7 ай бұрын

No diesels. That's old technology. Hydrogen or electric is the future.

@todddammit4628

7 ай бұрын

Yes to Stadler, no to diesel.

@sonozaki0000

7 ай бұрын

Noooo 🙅‍♀ no more diesel! Yes to more Stadler, though. Their trains are lovely, we have too many ugly trains in this country

@expojam1473

6 ай бұрын

True we should electrify all the lines. But given how stubborn the feds are, switching to stadler diesel would be more realistic lol

I rode on the Arrow about a month after it opened, and I couldn’t have been more impressed!

It’s clean and quiet and has a security guard in the cabin but I noticed that not a lot of people ride it

I'm very excited for the Arrow line. I live about an hour away from Redlands and I've been to downtown Redlands many many times. This will really make that downtown something special. The biggest thing is extending the rail line through other parts of the IE. Imagine this running east all the way to Palm Springs, stopping at Beaumont along the way. And then imagine it running west along the 10 to Ontario airport. And yeah, much more smaller stops are needed too. I hope they also start developing high density mixed use neighborhoods near the stops.

I would love to see an Obscure Transit video about Honolulu's Skyline rail system!

i went to redlands uni and i was there for the arrow opening!! i was so happy when it opene because getting around had become difficult as the school shuttle much less after the pandemic. the trains are so modern and they were a joy to ride. i still have my arrow shirt from the grand opening event 😛

THE ARROW LINE SHOULD HAVE IT'S ONLY LINE FROM CAL STATE SAN BERNARDINO TO COACHELLA VALLEY AND RUN INDEPENDENTLY FROM LA METROLINK. WITH OTHER STATIONS YUCAIPA, CRAFTON COLLEGE, CALIMESA, WEST BEAUMONT, BEAUMONT, EAST BEAUMONT, CABAZON, PALM DESERT, PALM SPRINGS AIRPORT, THOUSAND PALMS AND INDIO, COACHELLA AND THERMAL.

In my recent transit tourism journey to SoCal last month, I arrived in Ontario so I could explore the Arrow. Since only one DMU unit is operating right now, there’s no sense of how it can improve service with multiple units, but I found it comfortable and modern, as it should be (though having USB-A-only outlets shows how challenging it is for public infrastructure to keep up with technology trends). It feels more like a large LRT shuttle, with level boarding onto low-floor trains. Unfortunately they won’t be able to run the new FLIRTS on the rest of the line due to platform inconsistencies, without modification. The modifications are probably not as complex as one might imagine to allow multiple DMU consists on the legacy routes; may be limited to freight limits on platform heights however. At SBDT station where the two lines meet, modifications were made at one end of two platforms for the higher boarding levels. One shares a platform so a quick walk across the platform is all that’s needed. The other is on another platform requiring exiting the platform to. Interestingly, in order to operate a single, very early “express” service into Union Station M-F from Redlands downtown, there’s a second platform, serviced on the opposite side of Arrow at the other end of the station block, for the regular diesel consists. It’d be interesting to see what it would take to make them compatible to be usable on other routes-presumably those with tracks not shared with freight adjacent to the platform. Something you didn’t mention was how the service gets severed from the rest of MetroLink for a couple hours midday M-F to shuttle ESRI workers from their station to Redlands downtown & university stations. I happened to be on the last line E/B before the short service & ended up having 1.5 hours to walk around the 1/2 square mile of historic Redlands that made me think that San Bernardino county was not as much of a wasteland as I knew LOL

@sonozaki0000

7 ай бұрын

San Bernardino has exploded in the past years, for sure! Everyone spread out to the area due to the warehouses building jobs, and commuting to escape the high costs of LA county. The caveat is now its getting just as expensive, especially the closer you are to LA -- My family's from Rancho Cucamonga (just up the street from ONT airport) and the rents kicking my family's butts right now.

@ttopero

7 ай бұрын

@@sonozaki0000 check out City Nerd’s recent video to see how Los Angeles & the IE faired with cost of living. It might actually be cheaper to live in the city if less expense on transportation is required.

Nice video. The arrow seems like a fantastic service. Some more frequency would be nice, but it's still really encouraging to see a service like this in SoCal, and it's nice to see that it's successful so far. It's services like this that make taking transit far more enjoyable than driving. By the way, the patreon link in the description is broken.

They should just electrify the line. A $5 day pass would be a much better price to increase ridership.

Very impressive, at last a decent looking train in the USA.

Arrow is great. I ride when I stay in San Bernardino to head to state street in redlands

This was exciting to hear about, I've been riding the Metrolink San Bernardino line since I was a kid to get from the IE to LA... I'm really glad that rail options are expanding in the area. I grew up in the city that's getting the Brightline train to Vegas (which will be share a station with the SB line iirc) so, with an airport already in the area, I feel like the region is really going to blow up!

The Train is pretty cute

How’s the land use surrounding the stations? One thing Caltrain does well is a lot of the stops are historic and the downtowns formed because of the stops. So when you hit San Mateo, Palo Alto, Mountain View, Sunnyvale, it’s all right by their downtown core. But the urban sprawl is still there and the last mile issue is highly problematic with VTA and Samtrans barely functioning bus services for the single family neighborhoods engulfing the cities. Makes it hard to use the train to visit people - easy to visit restaurants and attractions though.

The Budd Company had this concept in wide-scale operation 75 years ago. Brill had it even earlier. It's a good idea, but not a new one.

very neat video to watch as usual!

This is a very interesting project. Redlands is a pretty tony town and often tries to ignore San Bernardino to the northwest. Also curious there's demand for such a specific service.

You should do a video about Toronto Transit! :D

@hobog

7 ай бұрын

Scarborough RT counts as obscure

The $10 weekend pass is great

I was impressed with Arrow when I tried it... except the part about having to hang your bike from the ceiling.

For a brand new service opening in the 2020s, there is no reason they shouldn’t have electrified it.

Nice video. I just found this channel recently and I have a bit of catching up to do, but this is a well made video. Although, I feel Redlands would benefit more from direct Metrolink service to LA instead of a 10 mile shuttle which invves a transfer at San Bernardino. I've noticed a few other rail projects in CA, such as Valley Link and eBart, involve these transfers in the middle of suburbia to a short shuttle service instead of simply extending the existing line, but maybe that's a frequency issue (which could be solved by double tracking and more funding).

@TohaBgood2

7 ай бұрын

In BART's case there is method to the madness. They have long range plans to do a bunch of system expansion of more S-bahn style service onto freight track. Meanwhile, the core of the system is getting intensified from S-bahn to regional subway levels of service and becoming a true region-wide subway/metro service. eBART was the first step of that expansion into freight territory. This was somewhat thwarted by the host railroad, but they will continue expanding it all the way to Brentwood via freight track. ValleyLink was kind of forced onto BART. They just wanted to expand conventional BART to Livermore, but the city blocked that expansion. Instead, the regional transit authority in that part of the Bay proposed a longer expansion with DMUs that will eventually extend all the way to Tracy and Stockton, again via freight track. That's what Valley Link is essentially - a consolation prize that I kind of now think is actually a solid upgrade over the original Livermore-only plan. And the feather in BART's future DMU/EMU expansion cap (if they can pull it off), is wBART. This was a planned new DMU/EMU S-bahn BART line on the current Capitol Corridor right of way from Richmond to San Jose. This was basically tabled when they realized how expansive the core system upgrade was going to be. But they will pick it back up once the current CBTC and capacity upgrades are done over the next decade. All in all, BART has very good reasons for those transfers. The other such transfers in California I will not defend. They're also driven by real necessity, but are harder to explain away. Most of the time it's because of cost though.

@Pensyfan19

7 ай бұрын

@TohaBgood2 Interesting to hear! I hope Bart pulls through with this massive expansion, since connections at the existing line would make much more sense if it were connected with a larger passenger rail network. Thanks for explaining!

@edwardmiessner6502

7 ай бұрын

@@TohaBgood2 I think it would be a game changer if BART ran an eBART service all the way to Sacramento; there are people who drive into the Bay Area from the state capital city, some all the way into The City and beyond.

@TohaBgood2

7 ай бұрын

@@Pensyfan19 Well, first we need to force BART to at least acknowledge that the Bay's other rather numerous rail services exist and matter enough to be put on BART's maps. So far they are successfully pretending that Muni Metro, Caltrain, VTA Light Rail, and ACE simply do not exist. The only other rail service that they sort of acknowledge is the Capitol Corridor, but that is only because BART itself is the contracted operator for the CC. They also have a timed transfer to Caltrain, but famously refuse to coordinate with them in some type of a weird sibling rivalry situation. There has been some positive movement on forcing BART to wait for the other services and behave like it's part of the broader Bay rail network. But we still have lot of bullying to do before the transfers are truly seamless and feel like one network. Hey, but at least payment is getting fully integrated with open payment next year, and the other services now wait for BART trains. That's already something! 😁

@TohaBgood2

7 ай бұрын

@@edwardmiessner6502 BART did originally plan to essentially replace the Capitol Corridor, which they incidentally operate for the regional authority, with wBART. But this would only have been a partial replacement and BART was also having trouble raising the necessary money to update the core system. So they dropped this plan. The DMU S-bahn services, if/when they come, will still be contained to the Bay Area. But, and this is a pretty big but for me, the MTC instead decided to essentially transform the Capitol Corridor from a quasi-hourly regional rail line into something closer to an S-bahn with 15-minute peak and 30-minute all day service. They also want to make some portions of it 125 mph outside of the Bay. The CC just got open payment ahead of the rest of the Bay next year, so you'll be able to just pay for the CC with your regular card like you do for any other local rail. If all this service intensification comes to pass then we'll basically get a better version of a wBART to Sacramento, but with crazy speeds for regional rail. So, not full BART service but very serviceable and on a wider geographical area. I'm perfectly willing to accept that, if they pull it off.

Given that they spent the money to completely re-do the trackbed, they should have just electrified it. Without double tracking and connections to real destinations such as CSUSB, this service will never be popular, and it's much slower than the freeway it parallels. The key metric is public subsidy per boarding, which is over $100.

One of the newest and least ridden rail in the U.S

What a beautiful train

ARROW'D!!!!!

That method they use to power their light rail seems pretty good! Maybe they should use it to power their regional trains too!

I would love for them to add more express service. I travel to work in the opposite direction of Union Station and there are no express trains heading that way during commute hours. That transfer from San Bernardino line to Arrow can add 20 or 30 minutes to the travel time.

@qjtvaddict

3 ай бұрын

Build a maglev for that

Where did you find the information about Arrow expanding into Highland? Im unable to find anything about it.

I love the historic architecture of those Redlands stations. I wish we would build more stations in that style instead of the trashy modernist aesthetic we get now (which will look tacky in 10 years).

I realize this is unlikely, but I would absolutely love to see the service extended west to the San Bernardino depot and then south to Riverside. The Stretch of 215 freeway between the nearby major cities of San Bernardino and Riverside is always jammed and there is very little in the way of connecting services between them on the IEOC line. I lice near the Metrolink Perris South Station and if I was trying to get to any destination on the SB line, my only choice is to transfer in LA. It's ridiculous.

@craiganderson5556

6 ай бұрын

Yes, the transit between San Bernardino and Riverside is very limited, even though these are two of the larger cities in the IE. I assumed that the county governments didn't think it was important to work together. A San Bernardino-Riverside link might get a lot more traffic than the San Bernardino-Redlands link.

I would love to see them replace the entire Metrolink fleet with FLIRTs!

Metrolink and the State of California need to suck it up and electrify their mainline tracks instead of relying on experimental and less efficient hydrogen!

What was the comment at 2:28 that flashed up for like half a second that says "Did you see.....?"

@HeStoned05

7 ай бұрын

Reversed clip

I hope the service is well advertised in the area because the route is very limited. If they get enough passenger interest, they could use that as evidence to expand the service. Thanks

When will metrolink use these multiple units systemwide? I really want to see these trains replacing the existing diesel push-pull trains systemwide. I emailed the metrolink but they said they could not decided due to fundings by LA Metro and San Bernardino County Transportation authority. Do we have to contact LA Metro and San Bernardino County Transportation Authority for review/ consideration? Also hydrogen train does not make sense, prefer using DMU/ EMU/ BEMU.

Riverside is south of San Bernardino, not west of it, as you labeled on the map. The frequency here is kinda disappointing given that the eBart extension which very closely parallels this project almost always runs 20-min frequencies on a equal length track, while serving fewer people, with the same trainsets.

@Geotpf

7 ай бұрын

I would call it southwest of San Bernardino.

Are many people riding it? Every video I've seen of this rail line shows nearly empty platforms and trains, along with empty parking lots. :/

@danmur2797

7 ай бұрын

What's shown in the video is the Redlands to San Bernardino line which is still fairly new. Takes time to build ridership. If you look at the line between San Bernardino and downtown LA/Union Station during morning and evening rush hours though, these have usually been full. They were very popular since the line opened since it was one of the first passenger rail lines to come into service in the LA Metro area in the 90s. A lot of white collar employees commuting between the eastern suburbs/exurbs and their offices in downtown LA.

It sounds like it will be a decent line with a bright future. Don’t forget to do a lot of advertising to attract more ridership…

The stations between the two downtowns need better connecting bus routes and more transit-oriented development. The great investment of nice trains and decent service seems like it's being wasted on poor land use

2:29 “THAN YES”?

Hydrogen lol, as silly as battery trains when we already invented electricity a century ago and massively distributed it to everywhere

Linear transfers are the worst. They should just buy more FLIRTs and through-run this service all the way to LA Union

@Mauidog1

7 ай бұрын

Metrolink has discussed having these DMU go all the way to Union Station in the future.

5:40 hyrdrogen trains?!?

Honestly, I‘m not at all impressed by these small DMU services slowly popping up in the US, like this and TexRail. The frequencies are poor or very poor for continuous urban areas, the alignments feel wonky and like they don‘t serve enough points of interest and as a result the ridership is just not good enough. The only service of this nature that I think will be well-implemented is the Ottawa O-Train Line 2/4 when it opens. And even there the line serves very sparse places towards its southern end. Sure, the trains are nice, but they need to run in places where as many people as possible will ride them, on alignments that allow them to actually provide speedy and valuable connections. The Arrow really does feel like a light rail or BRT wouldn’t have been a worse choice. It could‘ve even been a better one, given the better frequencies one could‘ve expected from those other modes.

@DanaWood-iq6zr

7 ай бұрын

Btw Caltrain is getting these type of trains but the double decked & electrified with increased frequency as well. Just letting you know. & last thing when there getting more trains they’ll increase the frequency.

@bahnspotterEU

7 ай бұрын

@@DanaWood-iq6zr Caltrain is a totally different case and their trains are also totally different. They are big Stadler KISS trains running on a proper main line corridor with established ridership. I‘m very happy with Caltrain‘s work.

@DanaWood-iq6zr

7 ай бұрын

@@bahnspotterEU & When Arrow gets more trains they’ll increase the frequency.

@AssBlasster

6 ай бұрын

Probably something like the Sprinter in north San Diego County is more your speed. It runs with 30 min frequency until 10:30 pm on weekdays. Connecting Escondido, San Marcos, Vista to the ocean at Oceanside with Amtrak/Coaster/Metrolink services.

"Defined by its sprawl" Okay bud, this is LA, not Atlanta, NYC sprawls almost twice as much as LA! LA has some of the least egregious sprawl of any metro in the US simply because its geography prevents it. It was a fun meme in the 80s but, we really need to put it to rest. Great video, it's an exciting time as far as transit is concerned, that's for sure.

@AssBlasster

6 ай бұрын

What the hell are you defining as the NYC and LA metros? It might be dense in LA proper and surrounding cities but it definitely sprawls into the outer valleys and Orange County.

@michlo3393

6 ай бұрын

@@AssBlasster Not saying LA doesn't sprawl, but compared to other metros it actually sprawls the least. New York is BAD with sprawl, but everyone just sees Manhattan and thinks thats the entire city. LA gets the reputation for sprawl but every city does more of it at this point.

Hydrogen power is stupid. Carrying fuel of any kind is stupid. Just copy Japan and Europe and use overhead electrical power supply. There’s a reason for it.

"Hydrogen trains". The US will really do anything to prevent the cheapest, most reliable, simplest, and fastest train speed tech of overhead wires just cause the upfront cost is a bit higher. What a waste, just electrify the lines already.