Nvidia DLSS 3 Analysis: Image Quality, Latency, V-Sync + Testing Methodology

Ойындар

Nvidia's new DLSS 3 frame generation technology increases perceived performance to remarkable effect - but it is a first-gen effort with key improvements to come. In this video, Alex Battaglia answers fundamental questions about how to capture and analyse the technology and isolates challenges to test for in future game implementations.
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00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:30 How is Digital Foundry recording DLSS 3/4K 120hz?
00:03:39 Does DLSS 3 work with V-Sync?
00:08:59 Can DLSS 3 Frame Generation be used without DLSS Image Reconstruction?
00:09:30 Does DLSS 3 look good or work well with a lower frame-rate?
00:13:00 Perceptual Error and Frame Generation
00:16:40 Image Analysis - Cyclical Animation
00:18:34 Image Analysis - Scene Transition/Camera Cuts
00:19:38 Image Analysis - HUD/Thin Transparency
00:20:42 Image Analysis - Rapid Flashes
00:21:21 Image Analysis - Disocclusion with rapid/erratic mouse movement
00:22:36 Image Analysis - Comparison to "Ground Truth" 4K 120
00:26:57 Input Latency Analysis (Beware of V-Sync?)
00:31:23 All Good Things...

Пікірлер: 1 237

  • @fuzzy8333
    @fuzzy8333 Жыл бұрын

    Incredible coverage, well done Alex and DF. Clear to see the amount of thought and effort that has gone into this.

  • @robertlawrence9000

    @robertlawrence9000

    Жыл бұрын

    Even with something distracting on his shirt 😂

  • @GordonGordon
    @GordonGordon Жыл бұрын

    Oh wow. The amount of effort you put into this analysis. Bravo!

  • @you2be839

    @you2be839

    Жыл бұрын

    It was worth the effort in order to better understand the tech, but DLSS3 is definitely not worth the effort imho, DLSS2 is what's still relevant...

  • @GordonGordon

    @GordonGordon

    Жыл бұрын

    @@you2be839 well. It's a new frontier. People dunked on DLSS1 for a good long while. This would be great for improving experience at high fps if we can get the vsync and game capping better controlled. I would love a 50 actual boost to 100fps locked. The game would play smoothly and not turn my computer into a toaster for 3rd person action games, for instance. Obviously not applicable for eSports, but those games are rarely dependent on modern tech anyway, outside of Reflex.

  • @myytti16
    @myytti16 Жыл бұрын

    Words can not describe about how impressed I am with your breakdown of DLSS 3. You make it easy to understand complex technologies. I should probably donate to you.

  • @jsVfPe3

    @jsVfPe3

    Жыл бұрын

    Sign up for the Patreon and get the full quality videos.

  • @NovaTedd

    @NovaTedd

    Жыл бұрын

    this dude has a maximum salary of 18k a month haha i don't think a donation will change a lot, that's not even counting his donation money.

  • @MegaLoquendo2000

    @MegaLoquendo2000

    2 ай бұрын

    @@NovaTedd how do you know?

  • @thezx5795
    @thezx5795 Жыл бұрын

    Man I don't know how you guys can put in so much work. Thank you for this video.

  • @1funnygame
    @1funnygame Жыл бұрын

    It might be possible to separate the fake frames from the real frames. You could then play a video with only the real frames next to a video with only the fake frames. Could be an interesting way to visualise its effectiveness in different games

  • @BENergizer1
    @BENergizer1 Жыл бұрын

    No wonder Alex hasn't had time to cover Quake ray tracing yet. There's a tremendous amount of work done here and some eye opening stuff on this new technology's strengths and limitations. Thanks so much, Alex!

  • @Jonathan-Pilkington

    @Jonathan-Pilkington

    Жыл бұрын

    @@ramonandrajo6348 Why are you so angry kid?

  • @Jonathan-Pilkington

    @Jonathan-Pilkington

    Жыл бұрын

    @@ramonandrajo6348 Yes, why are you so angry?

  • @Sengial

    @Sengial

    Жыл бұрын

    @@ramonandrajo6348 What the hell are you even talking about hahahaha

  • @ChazMcClure

    @ChazMcClure

    Жыл бұрын

    @@ramonandrajo6348 He was talking about ray tracing not 4k lol.

  • @timmyp6297

    @timmyp6297

    Жыл бұрын

    Both releases are fully path traced. Neither are rasterized. Like Minecraft RTX.

  • @JannerBr
    @JannerBr Жыл бұрын

    I don't usually comment, but damn, this video is great, and it really shows the knowledge you guys at DF have. Thank you so much!

  • @mikecarter7645
    @mikecarter7645 Жыл бұрын

    Thanks Alex! Great video. The example showing a moire pattern from DLSS upscaling when there is a larger time gap between frames is really interesting - makes a lot of sense, but not something I had considered before. And I really appreciated the discussion on how to think about frame generation quality and the scenarios where it can be noticeable, as well as the conversation about vsync and input latency.

  • @leviticus6105
    @leviticus6105 Жыл бұрын

    Alex is the master at these graphical breakdown videos. Great content DF

  • @SNAPPERTBK1990

    @SNAPPERTBK1990

    Жыл бұрын

    Not Really!

  • @DragonOfTheMortalKombat

    @DragonOfTheMortalKombat

    Жыл бұрын

    I would Tim from HUB is.

  • @Zenzuu

    @Zenzuu

    3 күн бұрын

    Not really. Tim from Hardware Unboxed breakdown and analysis is better.

  • @Triad72
    @Triad72 Жыл бұрын

    WOW, all I can say is, this is incredible. Must have taken significant time and effort to go through so much frame by frame to find all these issues.

  • @K3zster
    @K3zster Жыл бұрын

    Incredible stuff. The quality of YT coverage of things like this is in an amazing place - hugely in awe of the things you have noticed here, as well as figuring out what's causing them! DF's coverage of the software/user experience side of things combined with GN's hardware insight has been so fascinating and useful.

  • @KarlRock
    @KarlRock Жыл бұрын

    That was thorough! Thanks for explaining.

  • @vasudev8566

    @vasudev8566

    Жыл бұрын

    Ayy Karl is into gaming tech! Hell yeah

  • @JohnsonStPetersonson

    @JohnsonStPetersonson

    10 ай бұрын

    Crazy to me seeing g your comment in a video like this. Nice interest my Ner Zealand Brother

  • @Ciara0
    @Ciara0 Жыл бұрын

    Been super excited for this specific video. Thanks for all the work you do!

  • @Mede_N
    @Mede_N Жыл бұрын

    I realized, that you fixed the "pumping" background (created by the auto-focus of your camera) in post (by masking it). Nice level of perfection :)

  • @DigitalFoundry

    @DigitalFoundry

    Жыл бұрын

    Yep :) thanks for noticing

  • @Games-tx1zc
    @Games-tx1zc Жыл бұрын

    Was expecting a slowed down, here's what the AI frames look like, kind of deal. What I instead learned is that you're the expert for a reason. Very cool, very informative. Excellent video.

  • @RampageECU
    @RampageECU Жыл бұрын

    Great video as always Alex! I love how you not just show examples but also explain the reasoning behind them. Very interesting to watch for sure!

  • @pobbityboppity1110
    @pobbityboppity1110 Жыл бұрын

    This is one of the best videos I’ve seen DF ever produce. Great job making this coherent, interesting, and usefully critical!

  • @AntonMochalin
    @AntonMochalin Жыл бұрын

    The methodology you explained shows you really know (and love) what you're doing. It's so enjoyable to to see such a thoughtful approach.

  • @brettlivingston595
    @brettlivingston595 Жыл бұрын

    Man I love nerding out with you guys! Thanks for the hard work.

  • @guitarsimon1
    @guitarsimon1 Жыл бұрын

    The work you guys do is so valuable, your attention to detail and refusal to compromise is honestly inspiring, thank you and well done!

  • @Taijifufu
    @Taijifufu Жыл бұрын

    Interesting stuff. Seeing the huge change in latency from exceeding the monitor's refresh rate was eye opening.

  • @kicapanmanis1060
    @kicapanmanis1060 Жыл бұрын

    Wow very good video Alex. Very in depth and explains the strengths and weaknesses of DLSS3 very well

  • @Starlank
    @Starlank Жыл бұрын

    Amazing coverage Alex! You obviously put a lot of hard work into your analysis. DF will always be one of my favorite channels.

  • @gevelegian
    @gevelegian Жыл бұрын

    Thank you for clearing up any questions I had about the new architecture and DLSS.

  • @HueyTheDoctor
    @HueyTheDoctor Жыл бұрын

    Alex is absolutely taking it to the next level with these videos.

  • @abdmo7575
    @abdmo7575 Жыл бұрын

    i cant even imagine how much time and effort does it take to make a video with this quality alone👏 its a busy couple of weeks for sure (uncharted pc , a plague tale , cod mw2 ,scorn , Gotham knights, bayonetta 3) i hope all DF team are doing ok

  • @HeloisGevit

    @HeloisGevit

    Жыл бұрын

    After months of barely any developments over the summer, it's gonna be a non stop freight train now.

  • @abdmo7575

    @abdmo7575

    Жыл бұрын

    @@HeloisGevit yeah .. thats sucks

  • @HeloisGevit

    @HeloisGevit

    Жыл бұрын

    @@abdmo7575 Not for us!

  • @abdmo7575

    @abdmo7575

    Жыл бұрын

    @@HeloisGevit i dont have time to play so it kinda sucks for me too lol probably ill just play uncharted and a plague tale

  • @HeloisGevit

    @HeloisGevit

    Жыл бұрын

    @@abdmo7575 I was thinking more of the quality analysis we'll be treated to by DF. As fun as playing the actual games.

  • @Sacdaddicus
    @Sacdaddicus Жыл бұрын

    Absolutely excellent coverage. Thank you so much for this investigative dive into dlss 3!

  • @kohlmannj
    @kohlmannj Жыл бұрын

    Absolutely brilliant job covering the different image quality test scenarios.

  • @kovalveli
    @kovalveli Жыл бұрын

    I don't even own a PC, but love watching these technical videos, lots of information. Thanks

  • @nitemantube

    @nitemantube

    Жыл бұрын

    Same here. I have a crappy 4170 without gpu and do my gaming on ps5. But the tech insights covered on this channel are excellent

  • @cyniczny
    @cyniczny Жыл бұрын

    This video is of pure gold: from basic explanation of how DLSS3 through commonly asked questions and even having nice examples of when and how DLSS and other AI-generated frames simply don't work. Amazing job!

  • @fugslayernominee1397
    @fugslayernominee1397 Жыл бұрын

    Great job man! The amount of effort you guys put into making these video analyses possible is insane. Incredible work! You guys are truly amazing!

  • @mikeoes1
    @mikeoes1 Жыл бұрын

    🤯 I'm going to have to watch this a few times to grasp all the nuances of DLSS 3. Thanks for all the hard work Alex and DF put into this detailed early look into this very neat technology.

  • @ryansanthu
    @ryansanthu Жыл бұрын

    The amount of effort put into the quality of information and the video is mind blowing. Thank you Alex for always feeding us nerds with everything we look for when new tech launches 😍

  • @Gphdigz
    @Gphdigz Жыл бұрын

    Bruh, these guys gotta be so GOOD at Where's Waldo

  • @neighborofthedevil
    @neighborofthedevil Жыл бұрын

    Excellent work! Your approach of showing how things can be counter-intuitive, not claiming to know the definitive answers at the moment and to highlight how the methodologies and test cases you'll be using to test DLSS3 relate to the principles of DF image quality analysis is truly brilliant.

  • @MegpoidNebri
    @MegpoidNebri Жыл бұрын

    Incredible analysis, Alex! Really well presented video, was a joy to watch.

  • @ananinunenon5092
    @ananinunenon5092 Жыл бұрын

    I think external vs internal framerate limiter might be interesting to look at regarding input lag with dlss 3.

  • @dodruku
    @dodruku Жыл бұрын

    17:15 the high visibility of these flickering artifacts around spidey's legs could also be explained by the contrast between the suit and the extremely bright sun reflection. On the other hand the fairly large reconstruction of the brick wall texture is a different beast altogether - the spot is filled with pixels very similar to the surrounding texture, hence you can't see it during 120 fps gameplay. It's the difference between picking an average color to fill a hole and drawing a new outline for important geometry moving against a contrasting background.

  • @lyconxero457
    @lyconxero457 Жыл бұрын

    This video was absolutely chocked FULL of fantastic information. Thank you for your hard work!

  • @xyoxus
    @xyoxus Жыл бұрын

    3:18 Oh my god, his hands are gone 🤯Always thought that would be a real background ^^

  • @b34k97
    @b34k97 Жыл бұрын

    Even slowed down from 120fps -> 60fps I'm having an extremely hard time seeing these Frame Generation artifacts. The vsync issues while panning in flight sim were quite obvious, but not much else beyond that. I'm thinking this tech is going to be absolutely fine for everyday use and I'm excited to see it come down to some more affordable cards.

  • @Rubafix989

    @Rubafix989

    Жыл бұрын

    Think of the spiderman example, it's not so much that you clearly see the artefacts, but you might notice weird flickering, or blurring. Or in the case of low framerate sense the input latency. But still it's quite impressive

  • @johnjonson6377

    @johnjonson6377

    Жыл бұрын

    as long as people pay for the 4080 and 4090s affordable will mean 800 - 1000$. Maybe this is the the decade of consoles and they will become more relevant and a better option(for gaming) than pcs sooner or later.

  • @Rubafix989

    @Rubafix989

    Жыл бұрын

    @@johnjonson6377 There are affordable alternatives that provide console like performance such as the RX 6700 that can be bought new for 350€ or less, hopefully it will remain true for the next gen 7700 post launch so we get decent raytracing at a discount

  • @TechTesters
    @TechTesters Жыл бұрын

    Such a great video, as always! I agree it's really hard to judge the quality of DLSS 3 atm. Often it looks super impressive, but then in F1 2022 you can see a similar effect to what you show with spider-man's legs. Hard to describe, but that shimmering / flickering can be annoying once you see it.

  • @BigPandaGamer

    @BigPandaGamer

    Жыл бұрын

    It's only beggining too, DLSS 2 compared to 1 was a major leap and expecting a major improvement in the years to come

  • @JackoWillMakeLives-loveu

    @JackoWillMakeLives-loveu

    Жыл бұрын

    @@ramonandrajo6348 couldn’t get a card today?

  • @dimaveshkin
    @dimaveshkin Жыл бұрын

    Thank you for such thorough and methodic approach to you videos. Great job!

  • @Sam_Saraguy
    @Sam_Saraguy Жыл бұрын

    That was well worth the wait. Thanks, Alex and team.

  • @Gaming940M
    @Gaming940M Жыл бұрын

    DLSS 3 Frame Generation is being modded to work on Turing and Ampere Cards..! Although there are some FPS instability issues and concerns about NVIDIA Locking it through Driver Updates.

  • @bitbat9

    @bitbat9

    Жыл бұрын

    It’s going to run like shit on those cards and be useless. They’re not fast enough to utilize it properly

  • @Gaming940M

    @Gaming940M

    Жыл бұрын

    NVIDIA will probably allow the frame generation on Ampere Cards so that it can act as a selling proposition for these bulky Lovelace cards. Still.. if one can get atleast a gain of stable 10 FPS .. it's a huge difference ... just like 522.25 Driver's DX12 FPS Gains.

  • @1chiTheKiller
    @1chiTheKiller Жыл бұрын

    Absolutely exceptional coverage. You're doing a really great job showing and explaining all of these issues and possible concerns for gamers to worry about.

  • @76sagman
    @76sagman Жыл бұрын

    Danke Shoen Alex. i've been waiting for this and your hard work is appreciated.

  • @kozmizm
    @kozmizm Жыл бұрын

    Great work! and I do mean work. I'm sure you spent a lot of time on this, Super informative and fascinating. Much love!

  • @TheNerd
    @TheNerd Жыл бұрын

    01:56 You can try to use some losless Codecs to record like UTVideo. Most of them are CPU only and Multithreaded. They have almost no performance impact (since almost no compression is happening), but require a lot of disk space since (at 1080P) they produce 4-7 GB/min. I used this method for almost 8 years for my YT Channel and the resulting quality (at the time) was always A LOT higher than NVenc. The mentioned "frame dropping" should be a result of either the Nvidia Hardware or the current implementation in OBS. This problem is especially annoying if you stream to KZread via HLS which results in the exact frame dropping you described.

  • @neutronpcxt372

    @neutronpcxt372

    Жыл бұрын

    Not exactly. The issue comes from the fact that anything outside of HW encoding occurs non zero copy performance losses then, so it's actually somewhat unoptimal funnily enough.

  • @nicholasdavidson1191

    @nicholasdavidson1191

    Жыл бұрын

    Even if you have higher quality recording, KZread will compress it.

  • @Xirpzy

    @Xirpzy

    Жыл бұрын

    Compression will still be a thing and if weve seen anything its that cpus cant keep up with the 4090 already.

  • @Daburademo

    @Daburademo

    Жыл бұрын

    wich recording software are you using ? i've tried many but most of them doesn't support external codecs

  • @neutronpcxt372

    @neutronpcxt372

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Daburademo OBS supports ffvhuff for example. That's what I personally use for recording at barely any performance loss.

  • @djsist
    @djsist Жыл бұрын

    The latency analysis, as everyone has pointed out, is mind-blowing and eye-opening. This is literally paper-worthy analysis. Thank you DF team and especially Alex, for giving us an insight into the knowledge that you guys have.

  • @EK-rp8ns
    @EK-rp8ns Жыл бұрын

    Wow, very great and informative video! Exactly the kind of content I tune to DF. Keep up the great work.

  • @Crashsune
    @Crashsune Жыл бұрын

    Wonderful coverage!!

  • @ymi_yugy3133
    @ymi_yugy3133 Жыл бұрын

    Great video. I wonder how long it will be until we see frame prediction instead of interpolation at a similar quality in real time.

  • @stephaneduhamel7706

    @stephaneduhamel7706

    Жыл бұрын

    I'm pretty sure this will never work. If it ever fails to correctly predict the player's inputs at least 99.9% of the time(wich will always happen, since no matter how good the predictions, it can't be 100% accurate), then the output will look and feel terrible, with the camera movements overshooting what the players is asking, and then snapping back to where it should be on the next "real" frame.

  • @Il_Exile_lI

    @Il_Exile_lI

    Жыл бұрын

    Unless the game is reading your mind, I don't see how it could possibly do this accurately and consistently.

  • @krishnav5122
    @krishnav5122 Жыл бұрын

    23:08 If you look at the label on the bar "El Coyote" - its darker on the DLSS3 side just like DF mentions earlier in the video. Also, the place where bottles are on shelves looks darker. Same with the ceiling lamp in the middle where the brightness is different. This might reduce contrast in some scenes but probably unnoticeable otherwise. Also look at the Dart board? circle next to bartender - that area looks differently lit in DLSS3 vs traditional. However if you look at the middle seat where no one is sitting - the contrast is not lost w.r.t its surroundings. Brightness reduction is most apparent on the skull above the bar. DLSS3 needs work for sure.

  • @sreeshnelp
    @sreeshnelp Жыл бұрын

    Beautiful breakdown. Also like how Alex's hair got combed down towards the end of the video hahaha

  • @maximefraisier1010
    @maximefraisier1010 Жыл бұрын

    Outstanding quality of video ! BRAVO !!!!!! Incredible stuff DF !!!

  • @WickedRibbon
    @WickedRibbon Жыл бұрын

    Phenomenal work! Highlighting specific areas where DLSS 3 can falter is very useful for discussion, and helps to bridge the gap between the subjective (i.e. what we "notice" in the image) and the quantitative (what we can actually "measure"). I did have a question regarding screen-tearing, G-Sync and latency though. When using DLSS 3, would screen-tearing issues be resolved, and the latency penalty reduced, if you: 1. Enabled G-Sync in the control panel, 2. Left V-sync off in the control panel, 3. Capped FPS using an in-game limiter or RTSS, below the max refresh rate of your monitor? (e.g. 118 FPS in your case) My thinking here is the omission of forced control panel v-sync would remove an extra layer of latency, while an FPS cap would still keep you within the G-Sync window. Of course, I'm not sure if this also breaks normal G-Sync in the process?

  • @HeloisGevit

    @HeloisGevit

    Жыл бұрын

    I can't speak for DLSS3, but I know that using GSync while Vsync is Off results in tearing at the bottom of the screen, with or without a framerate limiter, even when remaining within the GSync window. The only way to eliminate tearing entirely is to enable Vsync. Without DLSS3, you'd want GSync + Vsync + Cap FPS around 3 frames below your refresh so that, like you correctly stated, you remain within the Gsync window and don't experience Vsync latency. But as Alex has demonstrated, that's not applicable with DLSS3.

  • @WickedRibbon

    @WickedRibbon

    Жыл бұрын

    Ah cool, thanks for the clarification. Even though Alex mentioned it in the video, I wasn't totally sure if V-Sync was always a prerequisite for G-sync to work, or if this only applied when DLSS 3 was active. I've never owned a G-sync monitor, so this is actually surprising to learn. On my freesync display, I usually just make sure the game is running in Borderless and freesync kicks in just fine.

  • @HeloisGevit

    @HeloisGevit

    Жыл бұрын

    @@WickedRibbon It applies to Freesync too. These techs alone are a big improvement over running with no sync, but they gotta be combined with Vsync to entirely eliminate it in every game use case.

  • @nitemantube
    @nitemantube Жыл бұрын

    Outstanding effort made by DF covering this technical stuff. Kudos

  • @pragavirtual
    @pragavirtual Жыл бұрын

    What i like the most about DF videos is that it has a reverse clickbait titles, you always learn more than the title may lead you to watch.

  • @DaveyFantom
    @DaveyFantom Жыл бұрын

    A hearty round of applause for the amount of work Alex puts into these videos! Great stuff.

  • @DavidS00
    @DavidS00 Жыл бұрын

    Your work is so important, nobody does it like digital foundry. I only wish it was seen by more people, but these things are technical and complicated so the watching demographic is unfortunately a small subsection of gamers.

  • @varshoee

    @varshoee

    Жыл бұрын

    Unfortunately most gamers are less educated and less informed kids and they are not looking for good quality technical content. Channels that bait fanboys with toxic content get much more attention and views from gamers. it's a shame DF videos don't get nearly as many views they deserve.

  • @TheFirstExelion
    @TheFirstExelion Жыл бұрын

    God damn this was incredible work. I fully expect every other youtuber to link this video when talking about DLSS 3, not worth to even bother covering it when there's such a masterpiece out there already.

  • @JamesTechJackin
    @JamesTechJackin Жыл бұрын

    Great content as always!! Thank you for this.

  • @sapphyrus
    @sapphyrus Жыл бұрын

    Bravo Alex, once again the most in-depth and informed analysis on a frame-rate increasing subject. I have to say that it looks good enough that most of those things I could only perceive with your guidance. It's apt that we get a frame generation tech on the same year AI image drawers began appearing in mainstream.

  • @bits2646
    @bits2646 Жыл бұрын

    LOVE IT !!! I love when Alex gets technical, actually whole DF team in hardware or software technicality "under the microscope", lots of knowledge with ig amount of great and usefull information !! Amazing, great job all ! Keep up the amazing work you're doing for gamers and enthusiasts !

  • @Bry.89
    @Bry.89 Жыл бұрын

    DLSS wasn't that great when it was first introduced, but it's improved dramatically over time. It'll be interesting to see DLSS 3 Frame Generation improve over time as well.

  • @ahmeti.7595

    @ahmeti.7595

    Жыл бұрын

    We should wait for DLSS 4 for improvements probably.

  • @yomamasohot6411

    @yomamasohot6411

    Жыл бұрын

    @@ahmeti.7595 Sadly that means Nvidia will focus less on the actual performance of the GPU as we have already seen with RTX 20, 30 and 40 series by now.

  • @cybervoid8442

    @cybervoid8442

    Жыл бұрын

    @@yomamasohot6411 what do you mean? They have made the 4090 nearly double the efficiency of 3090 ti . Check hardware unboxed video where they cap a game to 90 fps. The 3090 to draws 416W whereas the 4090 draws 215W

  • @joshua7734

    @joshua7734

    Жыл бұрын

    As impressive as these techniques are on a technical level, DLSS really is a band-aid solution to compensate for display technology outpacing GPUs. Hoping that my 4090 means I can turn it off altogether and get 4k60 on modern titles.

  • @TerraWare

    @TerraWare

    Жыл бұрын

    @@yomamasohot6411 They've delivered on rasterized and ray tracing performance improvement over last generation as far as flagship vs flagship. The 4080 cards are embarrassing and quite misleading on their marketing on Nvidia's part.

  • @HeloisGevit
    @HeloisGevit Жыл бұрын

    Very informative video, well done!

  • @Patrick-tw7nr
    @Patrick-tw7nr Жыл бұрын

    Good analysis and can’t wait for future vids around this topic

  • @PixelShade
    @PixelShade Жыл бұрын

    Hardware Unboxed found that DLSS3 frame generation heavily breaks dynamically moving HUD elements on screen, like player names in "F1 22" or POI markers in "Microsoft Flight Simulator". In those cases they come across as major issues and are extremely distracting. What sucks for nvidia is that they don't support DP2.0. So no 4K 240fps, although that would be the most viable target. at lower FPS it breaks apart a lot, at higher frame rates outside of the displays refresh range you need to contend with tearing... And once we see 4050 and 4060 cards, frame generation will make even less sense due to the lower framerates.

  • @JD-qf8ov
    @JD-qf8ov Жыл бұрын

    Amazing video, the only thing I don't understand though is why you would turn on VSync at all anymore if the ultimate aim is to have settings heavy enough to stop the game from exceeding your monitors maximum refresh rate? The lower latency of VSync off is a win and if the aim is to never exceed the monitors refresh then you won't have tearing above say 120hz, so why even enable it? Thanks again for the amazing video.

  • @jsVfPe3

    @jsVfPe3

    Жыл бұрын

    You'll still exceed the refresh rate sometimes, and the VSYNC only comes into effect when you hit the 120 FPS mark. So you're choosing between having occasional periods of higher latency when you are at or above 120 FPS, or periods of tearing. The tearing would be more noticeable for me and I'd do the same as Alex, but it may depend on the game and the person.

  • @JD-qf8ov

    @JD-qf8ov

    Жыл бұрын

    ​@@jsVfPe3 True, the only reason I'd probably leave it off is the extra 5ms latency you gain back by having it off when even below 120hz, like you can see on Alex's graphs at 28:51 for example. I know it's a tiny gain but I'd probably only enable VSync for games where I know I'll be getting crazy high framerates about 120 such as CS:GO, etc. Most of the games I'd expect these crazy frames in won't have DLSS 3 anyway so I'd just use the in-game VSync toggle on a game per game basis.

  • @vedocorban
    @vedocorban Жыл бұрын

    This is incredible. I can't begin to fathom the amount of effort that must have gone into both researching the data and making it presentable to the general (admitedly somewhat enthusiast) public.

  • @biIl
    @biIl Жыл бұрын

    You mentioned that the RTSS FPS cap does not reduce input latency. I think you will find that if you use the in-game FPS cap, it will. I don't know why but this tends to happen in most games. Battle(non)sense has covered this extensively

  • @SolidBoss7

    @SolidBoss7

    Жыл бұрын

    no, it's the other way around, and battle nonsense states this in a Witcher 3 comparison video I watched just last week

  • @MrJamesDiamond
    @MrJamesDiamond Жыл бұрын

    Alex you’ve blown this out of the water and gone absolutely next level. Brilliant video. Informative and an absolute pleasure to watch. Keep doing what you do!

  • @VinCarbone
    @VinCarbone Жыл бұрын

    Love your review! It would be interesting to analize DLSS 3 + RTSS scanline sync!

  • @waleedaljaber7989
    @waleedaljaber7989 Жыл бұрын

    an amazing video 👍 thank you DF & Alex .

  • @MrCrypto137
    @MrCrypto137 Жыл бұрын

    Regarding that DLSS3 Vsync question: What if you use just the Frame Limiter in the Control Panel and not Vsync?

  • @speedtree

    @speedtree

    Жыл бұрын

    yes exactly

  • @-41337
    @-41337 Жыл бұрын

    this is undoubtedly the most advanced and relevant testing methodology developed for DLSS 3 so far. absolutely incredible work by Digital Foundry

  • @stuartdrummond
    @stuartdrummond Жыл бұрын

    I wanted to thank you for this analysis Alex as I noticed the same panning issue in A Plague Tale: Requiem. Forcing Vsync in the Control Panel cleared up the issue. Top notch job!

  • @donizettilorenzo
    @donizettilorenzo Жыл бұрын

    Now that's REAL tech stuff we expect from DF and Alex in particular. Extended inspection of scenarios with nearly-scientific precision.

  • @Hirens.
    @Hirens. Жыл бұрын

    Really important thing to note: Keep in mind that if you have both G Sync and V Sync active and your FPS is at your monitors refresh rate you will have only V Sync active and that will increase your input latency pretty heavily. Yes, it is recommended to have both G Sync and V Sync active (for no tearing at all) as long as your FPS is below your monitors refresh rate (recommended to limit your FPS with RivaTuner). The reason why it's recommended is because while having G Sync active (below your monitors refresh rate) the downsides of V Sync's higher input latency are mitigated by G Sync (as long as you don't reach your monitors max refresh rate). In conclusion I wouldn't recommend having V Sync forced ON globally because it might negatively impact your experience in some games, especially competitive games that usually have higher FPS and can easily reach the max refresh rate of your monitor. What I personally do is activate V Sync on a game by game basis while having G Sync active for all games (since G Sync will not affect input latency in any way). And sometimes limiting my FPS slightly below my monitor refresh rate for a zero tearing and no additional input lag experience in cinematic games. PS: Regarding 31:00 in the video. Yes, Riva Tuner is enough to reduce the input latency *as long as you limit your FPS slightly below your monitors refresh rate* Ex.: Max refresh rate is 144Hz, I limit my FPS to 138 or 140 FPS.

  • @Hirens.

    @Hirens.

    Жыл бұрын

    I understand that this video's topic is slightly different but I wanted to drop this bit of information just to let someone ppl know that it's not the greatest idea to have V Sync forced ON globally and why.

  • @musabmohammed8446

    @musabmohammed8446

    Жыл бұрын

    Does this reduce vsync input latency?

  • @Hirens.

    @Hirens.

    Жыл бұрын

    @@musabmohammed8446 Yes, if you also have G-Sync or Free-Sync active and are limiting your FPS to slightly below your monitors max refresh rate. In fact you'll have no impact on input latency if you do this. Basically you'll have the same input latency with V-Sync on or off if you respect these conditions.

  • @De4daim
    @De4daim Жыл бұрын

    Hey Df, Alex as always an insane detailed video and great explanations. At 18:00 you mentioned the lack of games with cycling animations especialy with 1.person games, but shouldnt the constant weapon bopping animation be a good indicator? Its as close to the cam as possible and its constantly cycling

  • @macgyverret

    @macgyverret

    Жыл бұрын

    that animation isn't fast enough, the movement across the screen has to be faster than that

  • @Im_Behind_You

    @Im_Behind_You

    Жыл бұрын

    No

  • @EDcaseNO

    @EDcaseNO

    Жыл бұрын

    the movement must be too slow, if that other 3rd person test case running animation didn't garner that. good news =]

  • @iurigrang

    @iurigrang

    Жыл бұрын

    Maybe it isn't fast enough?

  • @deny_s
    @deny_s Жыл бұрын

    DF are hands down the best! That was thorough, educational and interesting! Thanks!

  • @cygnusx7
    @cygnusx7 Жыл бұрын

    Awesome video Alex! Thanks :)

  • @doctorfresh3856
    @doctorfresh38564 ай бұрын

    @9:03 So why didn't NVidia just call it Frame Generation instead of mixing it with other DLSS? They should seperate the distinction. This is NVidia Frame Gen and this is DLSS 3 Upscalling. I know they seperate them in games but it should be seperated in the marketing to.

  • @unawarebot2529
    @unawarebot2529 Жыл бұрын

    In addition to enabling gsync and vsync, you should limit your frames under your monitor's refresh rate. That way you won't be subjected to the vsync delay.

  • @Lackesis

    @Lackesis

    Жыл бұрын

    We still don't know how DLSS3 works with FPS limiter, but i think we will find out soon enough.

  • @unawarebot2529

    @unawarebot2529

    Жыл бұрын

    @@Lackesis I'm more so trying to explain to anyone who happens to read this that while gsync+vsync is the correct thing to do, you need to use a frame cap under the refresh rate. If you use vsync as the limiter, you are not using gsync, rather you are fully vsynced and will get to enjoy the vsync delay in it's full glory.

  • @Kubose

    @Kubose

    Жыл бұрын

    @@unawarebot2529 There is some weird behavior going on, because Nvidia changed how vsync works recently so that turning on vsync+gsync in the nvidia control panel automatically caps your framerate below your refresh rate (for my 240hz monitor, turning on vsync with gsync caps my frames at 225), but it seems like it doesn't work properly with DLSS 3. Not sure what's going on there, might be part of why Nvidia said that Vsync isnt working with DLSS 3 currently.

  • @TheTrashman147

    @TheTrashman147

    Жыл бұрын

    But then you get uneven frame pacing, that makes the game look significantly more juddery and less smooth, that's why dropping to 59 fps while targeting 60 makes such a big difference

  • @brandontalbort
    @brandontalbort Жыл бұрын

    This analysis is really incredible. Such a great way to learn about this technology.

  • @ammarnajeeb
    @ammarnajeeb Жыл бұрын

    Thank you Alex. Very informative.

  • @adrianmalkovich7101
    @adrianmalkovich7101 Жыл бұрын

    It would be interesting to see a recording with the "real" frames removed, only showing the AI-generated intermediary frames. Maybe then it would be easier to understand what kinds of artefacts it generates.

  • @youuuuuuuuuuutube
    @youuuuuuuuuuutube Жыл бұрын

    The huge input latency is a deal breaker for me. I'll stick to DLSS2 and will get superior IQ and way better latency, and still good enough FPS.

  • @scepticskeptic1663

    @scepticskeptic1663

    Жыл бұрын

    yeah especially with an rtx 4090 :P

  • @autodidact7127

    @autodidact7127

    Жыл бұрын

    Is it a deal breaker for you? 🤠 Will you stick with DLSS 2 and get superior IQ and way better latency and still good enough fps? 🤠

  • @reviewforthetube6485

    @reviewforthetube6485

    Жыл бұрын

    All good it does incredible with anything so no worries lol

  • @10secondsrule

    @10secondsrule

    Жыл бұрын

    @@autodidact7127 it's the huge issue and a deal-breaker for him. He'll stick to DLSS2 and will get superior IQ and easy better latency and still good enough FPS. How about you? @Auto didact is it the huge issue and a deal-breaker for you. Will you stick to DLSS2 and get superior IQ and easy better latency and still good enough FPS?

  • @pedromartins4847
    @pedromartins4847 Жыл бұрын

    Thank you for the video. Great 30 minutes and great explanation. Great work!

  • @ChristianHedman
    @ChristianHedman Жыл бұрын

    Top quality as usual Alex. Great stuff, I love the depth here.

  • @ionseven
    @ionseven Жыл бұрын

    Another glorified Nvidia commercial from DF. Might as well work there.

  • @ayman7797
    @ayman7797 Жыл бұрын

    fantastic work Alex !

  • @dankboys
    @dankboys Жыл бұрын

    Quite informative and useful for those looking to capture int he future. Thanks Alex.

  • @ShindlerReal
    @ShindlerReal Жыл бұрын

    Alex content that starts with Klepacki music is always great.

  • @mcanbolel
    @mcanbolel7 ай бұрын

    I can't even imagine a world without your channel. Thank you so much for all your efforts. I hope you made a revisit video for DLSS frame generation for the latest updates.

  • @sir1junior
    @sir1junior Жыл бұрын

    Fantastic Analysis! I'm still poking forward to see how this performs for productivity apps.

  • @PlaylistWatching1234
    @PlaylistWatching1234 Жыл бұрын

    The insane work here is really appreciated.

  • @hobmarg
    @hobmarg Жыл бұрын

    Awesome video, thank you! The final summary is great, showing the scenarios where DLSS has issues but also where it can truly shine like Cyberpunk at 4K RT on, truly impressive. Thinking this will be very useful in the future Witcher games in the coming years, where having maximum visual fidelity improves the experience a lot.

  • @selohcin
    @selohcin Жыл бұрын

    Top-notch work, Alex. Keep it up.