And the Award goes to .... NotePerformer!!!

Really helpful!

Some of the struggles of the other libraries vs noteperformer is because these libraries have independent release times coded in their engines, it tends to cancel out some notes when doing the repeated note pitch. If there's some way to modify the release times to be controlled by the NPPE, these libraries would sound better. I work a lot with midi and those drops/cutoff of playback happen usually in repeated notes. That's why most libraries struggle in the Piu mosso part at Bar 17

I find I get the best results using Noteperformer but exporting the stems as audio (winds, brass, perc, strings) and then fine tuning the tone, balance and verb in Pro Tools for when I want a quick demo or mockup to sound a bit more impressive. I might layer the NPPE BBCSO strings in too if I feel like putting in a little extra work.

Thx so much for doing this, David. Your video couldn't have come at a better time; I've been using MuseScore (MS) for years now, but have been considering trying Dorico with NPPE to play back BBCO and Berlin Orchestra. Noteperformer's crisp execution is astonishingly good...worlds better than the others to my ears. Unfortunately, in other videos I've discovered that NP's string sound on slower passages is a tad 'synth-y' to me. In my experience, in slow expressive passages MS's strings really shine, but as you noted, in up tempo work MS can be terribly sloppy...repeated notes are awful. On another note, I was surprised that the playback of NPPE with BBCSO was so inconsistent...I had high hopes for this configuration, but I'll now have to reconsider. Perhaps I'll try the demo versions. Thx again for an insightful evaluation!

To me, NP for the win! I've personally been using NP with BBCSO NPPE a lot this year, and yeah there can be a lot of volume bumps throughout especially in frequent alternating legato/staccato in a fast passage such as your woodwind and string examples - fast legato is a total blur and sometimes you get weird accents and bumpy rhythms, like the players sound drunk. Volume jumps on the beats - reminds me of the way dance music has that famous compressor pumping effect. The brass section is pretty useless in general, I can never get it to sound tight and end up reverting to stock NP 90% of the time! I have found BBC shines on slower, lyrical melodic passages where it's mostly longs/legato. Fast rhythmically crucial shorts especially in a dense orchestration turn to mush. Recently I added VSL Synchron to my arsenal along with the NPPE. I have to say it's been significantly better for me. It's not perfect but it's much closer to native NP in its ability to handle fast & frequent alternation of longs/shorts/leg, and I rarely ever have any random volume issues like I have with BBC. BBC instruments sound slightly better, but I find Synchron just works without headaches, so lately I'm using Synchron for the base orchestration and BBC for exposed lyrical/soloistic lines. Also Synchron SY Pro strings + Elite strings has made for a really nice string section + divisi a2 "hack," since they were recorded in the same room, and Elite is basically half the size of SY Pro, so they blend perfectly for moving your string section between full & div (allowing you to use different articulations/dynamics for each). Can't even do that with BBC at all! Also playing around a bit with MuseSounds (free aside), very impressed with some of the techniques unavailable in NP and elsewhere, but NP feels more clear and confident with all the "essentials." The timbres of the woodwinds in your example are really nice, but those bumpy dynamics drive me totally crazy, hoping they can fix that soon. Not sure about the brass sound whatsoever, it's a bit of a mess. For simple choir writing (just ooh's and aah's) I think MuseSounds is in the lead by far - worth checking out and compare to NP and NPPE's Iconica Sketch (just half women & men ooh's and aah's), both of which sound pretty awful. MuseSounds Choir is surprisingly realistic sounding!

Thank you for this informative video. I bought NotePerformer three years ago and have been extremely happy with it. The latest update (4.5) makes improvements to an already good version 4.4.

I've spent a ton of time trying different libraries for marching arts playback. I've definitely found that quite a few libraries have more lifelike, realistic sounds than NotePerformer, but that along with the realism comes weird artifacts and inconsistencies. NotePerformer isn't quite as realistic, but also plays back more consistently than any other library I've found.

I really loved what sounded like the clicks of the keys for the winds in the Musescore rendition of the full orchestra

I completely agree with NotePerformer. I use Dorico Pro and find the only real weakness to be the strings. With the NP engine I use Cinematic Studio Strings since I own the entire CSS library but like NP better for winds and brass.

@driscollmusick

19 күн бұрын

This is the way. At least for a general use orchestral template. I do think it's useful to play with different perc libraries in NPPE, but that is basically seasoning to taste.

Thank you, David, for doing all that work. I was already convinced but now even more. Have been using NP since even before I started Dorico. The combo is a win for me. One question: have you tried exporting an .xml (.mxl) into ProT or Logic and then adding other tracks? Hard to line up because of the delay in NP. If you’ve made it work, would love to video how to on that! Nice job!!🎉

I use Sibelius and NotePerformer 4 but I must admit, I was impressed with MuseScore. Perhaps because I've had a low expectation. They certainly have improved their playback. NotePerformer is still my favorite. What I can't get over is having to rewrite the strings so the double stops sound real and not like a chord. I've had this problem with violin solos. I want a real violin cord, not something that sounds like divissi a4.

I don't think you listed out your computer specs, but IMO a lot of the glitches with NPPE performance have to do with the immense strain it puts on your computer memory. As to the dropped voices, one thing to consider is the "Support more voices" option in NPPE? For fast stuff, like the Rossini strings here, it might be critical to running BBCSO

I've found a lot of the same issues you're seeing/showing in this video, and I think (at least in this example) the basic Noteperformer is the clear winner in the musicality dept. I have the samples and engines for Synchron Prime, Synchron (I only have Synchron Strings Pro) Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (2024 version) and BBCSO. I find that it does indeed depend on the style you're trying to write in/mock up. The drawback to the NP strings is that the tone isn't always the best, even if the interpretation shines. I've been doing tests of excerpts, seeing what seems to work best (with the 3rd party samples). I think Synchron Prime really does a nice job - the Pro version of the strings also. A close second is the Spitfirre Symphony orchestra (2024 version). Some of that is almost as convincing as the base NP I suspect as Arne Wallander keeps tweaking the algorithms of the 3rd-party stuff it will only continue to improve. One of the experiments I did, I mixed other libraries with Noteperformer Strings to help with the warmth and realism - of course now we're getting into work in the DAW.... I think for getting a good interpretation with acceptable sound right away, Noteperformer is great... the balances are pretty spot-on for "real" orchestration. In some cases, it sounds eerily "real", others, not so much. I would have no problem mixing and matching and doing post-production in a DAW, however.... and I think with some practice it might end up taking less time than playing it all in one line at a time in a DAW while still giving excellent results. It's a cool time to be a musician - we have amazing tools, for sure.

Of all the NPPE's, I think SSO sounds the closest to a real orchestra in the actual sound you get. However, the VSL Synchron NPPE is probably the best at handling the finer details of playback (based on the demos I've heard). I have the SSO and HOOPUS NPPE's and use both, but prefer SSO. MuseScore excels at very expressive playback of slower pieces, by falls apart on faster music the majority of the time. I think all of these solutions will continue to improve though, so it's awesome we have several options available for notation playback now!

Great comparison - not surprised to see NotePerformer come up on top, at least given these options. Is the Dorico file available anywhere for people who want to test it out with their own setup for comparison purposes?

Noteperformer every day! It's amazing for the price. If they can fix things like the occasional clunky strings sounds, the odd clipped slurred phrase ends and the awful percussion dynamics, it'll be even better!

Awesome video! I agree about NotePerformer sounding best. I’ve been using it with Finale quite happily. I just got Dorico but NotePerformer doesn’t show up as a choice even though it’s installed already. Do I need to reinstall it?

Its NotePerformer for me too, it gets the rhythmic crispiness of MIDI while maintaining a nice orchestral timber quality. Listening to rhythmically sloppy MIDI is just rough for me

Cool video.

Noteperformer clear winner, pitty though that it is not very good in vocal scores...

Nice video David! Thank you! Did you record your screen with OBS? :'D

The regular NotePerformer, without NPPE, stands head and shoulders above the competition, it's almost laughable. In my opinion, NPPE is a significant waste of time and resources for what little it offers. MuseScore has great potential. While its notation features might be lacking, with some tweaking, Muse Sounds can achieve what NPPE aims for, and it actually sounds good. Plus, it's free. ;)

Rossini in itself is all about repetition... and to have to listen to it 16 times...!😂😂 Nice comparison, Noteperformer clear winner.

Great video. Does anyone know if he used articulation maps in Dorico for these 3rd party libraries (BBCSO, namely)?

@driscollmusick

19 күн бұрын

If you use NP in Dorico, you are locked into its Playback Template (i.e., you can't use other articulation maps, as all of that is handled within the NP "black box")

I'm not sure I'd want to listen to any of these for very long, but found Note Performer the best by far. One could at least convince oneself that it could be a real orchestra. The others all had unnatural artifacts. The Dorico has way too much reverb, like it's being played in a cathedral; I wonder if they do that to try to hide inadequacies.

Sounded like Noteperformer was the best

Ative as legendas.

Noteperformers own payback outperforming the rest by a landslide. MuseScore, considering it is free is quite ok. But the precise articulation in NP is not achieved by any competition.

MuseScore has added something called Staff Text which onlocks some pretty great playback techniques. Like growls, singing through clarinet, wind overblown notes. etc. It also plays quarter tones quite effectively. I love Dorico but MuseScore is really pushing the envelop of playback ability. MuseScore's biggest achilles heel is in fact its playback of very fast passages convincingly. they need to work on that.

@daviddas

21 күн бұрын

This is great to know -- thank you. Clearly this is something that's going to grow fast in the coming years.

@eosborne6495

21 күн бұрын

When Musescore gets the algorithm right and makes good performance choices, it’s my favorite of all of them. But when it makes weird choices…

Cool video Dave! One extra thing- for whatever reason, NotePeformer sounds better in Finale and Sibelius than Dorico. I have no idea why.... but it sounds more authentic. which is a bummer because all of my concert works are written in Dorico....

@jojaspismusic8531

20 күн бұрын

Pitty though that Noteperformer is not very usefull for vocal scores...

Congrats David, a really well put together video which in my opinion clearly demonstrates why I'm such a strong advocate for "base" Noteperformer. If a score is properly notated with articulation and dynamic markings, it will make a really musical and convincing (note I didn't say "indistinguishable from the real thing") playback. It's vastly less time consuming than trying to create a mockup using sample libraries, which can sound more realistic with time and effort, but if your goal is to hear how your music will sound when you later put it in front of live players, I honestly don't know why you'd need to spend any more time, effort and money (NP is very inexpensive). I'm actually a little sad that so much effort was put into moving in the NPPE direction and not further expanding Noteperformer's native library of instruments and the way they sound. I often find myself trying to find an "equivalent" sound for instruments that are called for in the scores I'm working on.