Muistan miten 90-luvulla ajattelin, että hiihdossa voivat pärjätä vain sellaiset, joilla on geneettisesti täysin poikkeava hemoglobiinitaso. Olin siis tyhmä ja sinisilmäinen.

good documentary. the problem is, all the evidence pretty much lies on one piece of paper. you need to have more back up for a water proof case. i wish they'd keep digging and digging as long as total proof comes out. it's obvious that daelie & co are guilty as hell and they deserve all the heat. Lahti 2001 drove Mikä Myllylä - one of the most talented skiiers of our time - to deep depression and death, although everyone else were using EPO too. At the same time Björn Däehlie is rich, famous and respected. It's like 2 people commited same bank robbery. the other one gets death row and the other becomes a national hero. and even after evidence comes out, there's no interest convicting the national hero, cause police chief is protecting his ass. totally ridiculous. if exposing the truth means Marjo Matikainen, Däehlie, Smirnov, Alsgaard & hela posse get their gold medals removed - so be it. we can melt them and send the money to Africa. that's better than living in a Matrix.

another valuable piece to be placed in the mosaic of cross country skiing: there is sadness for the many truths buried .. for the endless lies and for the perpetuation of evil doping .. Thank you Hasse !!

Valehtelu jatkuu. Tosiasioita ei koskaan myönnetä. Kaikissa suurissa hiihtomaissa on ollut järjestelmällinen dopingkulttuuri

Näitä ei koskaan saada selville 👹👹 nykyäänkin tätä harrastetaan ja tullaan tekemään.

Puhdasta urheilula ei ole, eritäin kärjessä. Uskon että Norjalaiset kompastuvat myös. Norjalaiset on tuonut hiihtohommaan maailman ja het sen menehtäväät!

My hemoglobin at its highest was 192 That was a natural normal was 155-170....twice a day running..-90's...no high place training...

I have a normal (non-doping-produced) hemoglobine value that has been ranging between 158-172 the times it has been measured. Isn't it likely that individuals with a higher average hemoglobine value are more likely to become professional endurance athletes as well? This is not to say that skiers weren't blood doping in the 90s, since obviously they were. But the Danish medical doctor's argument, which he bases on a comparison between his patients' average values with the average value of professional skiers, could perhaps be questioned?

@gringostarr69

3 жыл бұрын

Aswell. Always had "high" hemoglobin that was concidered as a good thing back when I was starting school at early 90s

@classicalgreekintroductory6045

3 жыл бұрын

@@gringostarr69 yeah, I was called "rautainen mies" by a school nurse.

@martinschultz5596

Жыл бұрын

Your argument may sound compelling intuitively, but it's not really relevant. The main point here is that the _average_ hemoglobin of the athletes increased significantly year to year in the 90s to supraphysiological levels, until a test was introduced that better detected blood doping, after which the average hemoglobin in the same population rapidly decreased. So on average these athletes, even though they are elite, don't have crazy high hemoglobin naturally. A case in point, Erling Jevne, who two months prior to Salt Lake City had a perfectly normal hemoglobin of 147, but in Salt Lake City was rocking 170. The Danish doctor mentions a normal hemoglobin average of 140-145. As we can see in the documentary in 1989 the athletes had an average hemoglobin just shy of 150. This demonstrates that these athletes, even though they are elite, on average have a hemoglobin that is just barely higher than the average of normal healthy people. Usually a very high hemoglobin is caused by circumstances, congenital heart defects, illnesses and so on that reduce the oxygenation of your tissues. The body counteracts that by producing more hemoglobin. Obviously these are things that are not advantages in endurance sports. Individual differences exist of course, but hemoglobin level may be something that doesn't even allow for _wild_ individual differences due to simply how the human body works in that regard. If your tissues are well oxygenated, HIFs (hypoxia-induced factors) are broken down. (They are proteins that are broken down in the presence of oxygen.) Only when your tissues are badly oxygenated, do more and more HIFs "survive", and are able to fulfill their role, which is to signal the kidneys to produce EPO (erythropoietin). Again, some individuals have a higher than average hemoglobin, but the question is how much higher? Furthermore, are the individuals with a very high hemoglobin _really_ disproportionately likely to become elite endurance athletes like you said? Due to what I said in the previous paragraph, maybe not. And we can refer back to the figure from 1989. That suggests elite skiers probably have just a touch higher than average hemoglobin, but just a touch. So more than likely what's going on here is that genetical aptitude to endurance sports consists of things other than a high hemoglobin. But when you pump some extra EPO into these highly gifted, highly trained athletes and give them a supraphysiologically high hemoglobin, that's when you get those huge performance benefits. (At least 4% according to Kari-Pekka Kyrö.) I would also like to mention that the hemoglobin tests you've been subject to at school in uncontrolled circumstances, administered by the school nurse, are likely to have quite a lot higher margin of error compared to the laboratory level tests these athletes have been subject to. I'm not suggesting you're not a high hemoglobin dude, but there is certainly some uncertainty in how accurate those tests are. Doping runs rampant in all highly competed sports where you can get performance benefits from doping. You can't be successful in them without it. Even if you're incredibly talented and incredibly hardworking, you're going to go against people who are also incredibly talented and incredibly hardworking, but they're also willing to take a little EPO to get that sweet 4% boost. You're not going to outcompete that edge.

@roimari

4 ай бұрын

Are you a bit simple minded? Statistics show that hb values were growing. And average values been over 170 for all skiers. It just isn't possible. Medical fact.

Lereim 😂😂😂

Mitä luulette vieläkö saman metodit on käytössä?

@mikkolappalainen2618

6 жыл бұрын

On mutta vaikeampi doupata. Epon suuri käyttö voidaan testata nykyään doping testillä, eikä vaan seurata veriarvoja. Lisäksi veriarvoja seurataan tarkemmin. Luin, että kuitenkin jos epoa käyttäisi vain pienen annoksen vaikka joka aamu suuren kerta annsotelun sijaan, se ei näkyisi testeissä edes nykyään, jolloin siitä saisi jatkuvasti pientä etua reeniin jne. No norjalainen nainen kärysi anabolisista steroideista testissä, väitti että johtui huulirasvasta. Eli ammattilääkäri ei olisi osannut ostaa oikeaa huulirasvaa vaikka paketin kyljessä lukee isolla doping, eikä myöskään urheilija osaisi yhtään katso amitä käyttää ennen kisoja. Tää varmaan keroto jotain. Nimittäin sen, että Selityksetkin on valmiina..

@ac-phil276

6 жыл бұрын

Ikävä kyllä, testaaminen on aina tiedettä jälessä.

@roimari

4 жыл бұрын

Veri dopingista on vaikea jäädä kiinni. Eposta tulee uusia versioita joista ei tiedetä. Mikro annoksia antavat.