I can’t wait for the next 2x2 WR single to be -0.37 Seconds

@rynethegrynd

5 күн бұрын

@ryneiscool thanks :)

@TheAstronomicalCuber

5 күн бұрын

0.37 isn’t that fast lol

@ryneiscool

5 күн бұрын

@@TheAstronomicalCuberI said -0.37 not 0.37

@drushia3259

5 күн бұрын

@@TheAstronomicalCuber lets see you do it.

@TheAstronomicalCuber

5 күн бұрын

@@drushia3259 if i get lucky enough sure

The negative time... Is because he was touching the cube before the timer started...

@vpexmc

2 күн бұрын

So I could slide my hands off the timer to accommodate for the rules, but keep my forearms on it to prevent it from starting, solve the cube, and get a negative time.

@_TORN4D0_

2 күн бұрын

@@vpexmcno, the books say it’s 2sec penalty

@Anthony_Jiang

21 сағат бұрын

@@vpexmc😊

I'm pretty sure there's a rule un the WCA regulations that proves this is not allowed: A4) Starting the solve: A4b) The competitor uses their -fingers- to touch the elevated sensor surfaces of the Stackmat timer. The competitor's palms must be facing down, and located on the side of the timer that is closer to the competitor. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds). So you should have your fingers on the pad when starting the timer, sliding seems to me like you're using your fingers first, but at the end you're starting with the back of your hand (almost your wrist), which shouldn't be allowed. Also, i've seen that sometimes Yiheng starts turning the cube before the timer started, which should also go against the rule that you can't touch the cube while starting the solve.

Looks like sliding is the new meta. I think it‘s a slippery slope.

@Speedcubenz

5 күн бұрын

10/10 pun work, very impressive 🫡

@J.J.J.J.J.J.J

5 күн бұрын

Everyone already doing it. People just jealous of Yiheng so they're picking on him. All the best times in the world have been pushing these boundaries.

@cookierobber

5 күн бұрын

@@J.J.J.J.J.J.J No, they haven't. People have compared the timer starts of top 2x2ers, and Yiheng/Ellery are clear outliers

@J.J.J.J.J.J.J

5 күн бұрын

@@cookierobber Ya and I've compared them to myself and others who go straight up and the top cubers become the outliers. So they are all taking advantage with their method, which is partly why they are best in the world. Depends on the sample you take. People are suddenly cherry picking who's times to assess. Do it yourself instead of spouting misinformation.

@curiousNic

5 күн бұрын

@@J.J.J.J.J.J.J There are plenty of examples of top 2x2ers to show that clearly not everyone is doing it. And it’s not about Yiheng, it’s about a level playing field for everyone and abiding by regulations. Ultimately it’s up to the WCA to change the regulations/allow sliding or make clear that it’s not ok and also enforce it, which is the trickiest part.

That intro was FIRE 🔥

@STUCUBE

5 күн бұрын

Thanks 🙏

@CubingEmperor313

5 күн бұрын

fant

It's pretty clear cut for me, it breaks a couple of existing regs; B2b) When using the Stackmat timer, the competitor uses their fingers to touch the elevated sensor surfaces of the timer. The competitor's palms must be facing down, and located on the side of the timer that is closer to them. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds). A4b1) The competitor must have no physical contact with the puzzle while starting the solve. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds). Kit Clement was on my stream on Thursday and said, in his opinion, the average shouldn't count and it's very clear cut based on those regs. However... it wasn't possible to catch this in real time, and that's arguably the bigger issue. I predict an adjustment in the regs to make things a bit clearer and less open to abuse. And if that's the case, the Ellery .53 should be binned too as that's an even more obvious abuse of the regs! I didn't know about that one, but seeing it now it's super sus! Just my 2c lol, let's wait and see what happens. Also, another great vid, nice work 🙌

@STUCUBE

5 күн бұрын

Yeah, great points. Overall it’s probably not legal if we’re looking at not only regs but just common sense. Have to wait and see tho

@picklypt

5 күн бұрын

@@STUCUBE But isn't it better? since it more accurately represents the actual time that the cube is being solved? If they don't touch the cube before the timer starts, I feel that it makes sense.

@mofeiyang4587

5 күн бұрын

bruv just allow sliding...

@solver5k

5 күн бұрын

@@picklypt I agree it's more accurate as long as it can't be abused... I mean, what if you can do the whole solve with hands still on the timer and just lift and drop the hands mid-solve. It may be easy for delegates to detect on a recorded replay but a lot of judges would just write down the time, no questions asked.

@kazedcat

5 күн бұрын

​@@solver5kThen video record all competition solves. It's 2024 now and everyone has a video camera in their pocket.

Yiheng's starts for sure break the regs. WRC precedent makes it problematic to actually *apply* the regs here, but starting the timer with your palms/wrists is clearly illegal (not to mention the 0.74 where he *started turning* before actually starting the timer)

@pixxxxxel3403

5 күн бұрын

It's frame perfect and frame perfect vid doesn't count in wca sunless it's seen in regular fps vid . Bro get your facts right

@cookierobber

5 күн бұрын

@@pixxxxxel3403 That's what I was talking about with WRC policy. It's *unambiguously* against the regs, but WRC has historically been lenient if it can't be caught in real time. That precedent was based on people who have *slightly sloppy* starts/stops tho, not people who are deliberately breaking the regs. It's a different situation and there's a reasonable argument to be made that the same precedent shouldn't apply here

i knew it. It was his next video

"See some kids not only slide their way down the slide of the playground but also slide down to times faster than you" hits hard man...

2:30 - Part of the rules is that you cannot touch the timer with your palms when starting the timer, you have to use your fingers. „A4) Starting the solve: A4b) The competitor uses their fingers to touch the elevated sensor surfaces of the Stackmat timer. The competitor's palms must be facing down, and located on the side of the timer that is closer to the competitor. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds). A4b1) The competitor must have no physical contact with the puzzle while starting the solve. Penalty: time penalty (+2 seconds).”

@STUCUBE

4 күн бұрын

Yeah a lot of people have been mentioning this, it’s mostly gonna come down to the judge noticing it with the current regs we have in relation to framecouting. But that’s the main one now that I’m realizing will have to be looked into more

@cuberosimpson

4 күн бұрын

Yo tymon

@TylerSoriano

3 күн бұрын

THANK U tymon hopefully the wca does regulate this and make a decision, whether by removing the average now or by making an announcement banning the technique

solution: make 4-pad mandatory, it won't be perfect, but it will definitely cut down the timesave by a very significant margin, as well as make sliding very difficult, thus making the problem not as severe

@hughjass3184

5 күн бұрын

Realistically thats the best solution. Since most judges are kids who don't even know the regs, it would be hard to enforce more advanced timer starting rules.

@thecalculatedcreativecoder1428

5 күн бұрын

Some past records have used sliding though so they would have to DQ every single record that uses sliding and then switch and that would take a lot of analysis. Also, there is no way of verifying records without recordings.

@Thatonecuber025

5 күн бұрын

I think that 4-pad should be mandatory as well tbh

@hughjass3184

5 күн бұрын

@thecalculatedcreativecoder1428 I mean it might be harsh but just resetting the database for all of the fast events would be the best solution. That's what ended up happening in speedstacks.

@FireStriker_

5 күн бұрын

4pad has a sliding hack that allows you to force an E1

Epic videos man. Took a little break from cubing and came up to this. more inspired than ever.

such a high quality vid... Keep up the great content!

Maturity is when you realize that all of these are going to be nostalgic after 5-10 years when we start droping sub 0.50 second averages 💀

@smoceany9478

5 күн бұрын

wouldnt say nostalgic, im not nostalgic for lucas's 4.90. it definitely has a weird feeling of that insane solve isnt even wr average holy shit, i remember that being groundbreaking though (also rip keaton ellis's wr)

Dude this is crazy AND COOL

Oh man, good point about what the point is for self-filming. I suspect we'll see people privately film, but then not release them (I lost the footage in a boating accident).

Update timer. Have a mat measuring for downward pressure when cube lifted it starts and ends when cube dropped.

Keep up the good content man

I'm just waiting for yiheng to come out of no where and get the 4x4 world record...

@Nw_Cubes

5 күн бұрын

I’m scared 😣

@eeaaaeaeae

5 күн бұрын

i don’t think that’s likely 1. yiheng isnt too good at 4x4 and he hasnt improved that much over the past year compared to 2x2 where early last year he already had some mid 1 averages 2. planning does not help as much on 4x4 3. sliding does not work on 4x4 4. above a certain amount of tps does not work on 4x4 5. 4x4 is much less algorithm-based 6. max park is cracked

@adelmosallami

5 күн бұрын

China doesn’t bother with 4x4 it seems, as of right now they’re focused on trying to dominate 3x3 Half of the top 10 3x3 averages in the world are from Chinese kids. In 4x4, there is one, and it’s Ruihang, so he’s not even part of the cubing revolution.

Yiheng Wang is sliding into a new era.

Good video!

if the avg gets disqualified NOONE will post their wrs online...

@sheeparefine

5 күн бұрын

noone will film there solves

@rodrigoqteixeira

5 күн бұрын

​@@sheeparefinetheire

@maskboy2743

5 күн бұрын

​@@rodrigoqteixeira ooga booga

@gegan0112

5 күн бұрын

It’s not even yihengs video

@sheeparefine

5 күн бұрын

@@gegan0112 a few years ago there was a person who dindt want anyone to film his solves there is only 1 vidio of him solving a 7x7

Dude this is so crazy!!

@Cube_guyYT

5 күн бұрын

Yo I didn’t know you were hete

Build the timer into the cube with wireless reset controls and rotation sensors to start it, you scramble, hit the remote's timer reset button, then as soon as you start turning any axis the timer starts

Once Yiheng gets older with big hands he would end all competition, like Feliks basically. You’d strive for WR2.

Dude, every single video is a masterpiece of content. I love your chanel men, real

Amazing video

I Like the music choice in your vids

@STUCUBE

5 күн бұрын

Thanks. It takes me more time than I would like to admit to find music

petition for more comprehensible titles

A couple things to note. Sliding is undoubtedly an illegal technique that will result in a +4 if caught by the judge. The key phrase here is caught by the judge. The way sliding starts look make it almost impossible to tell in real time if it was a legal start, which makes frame counting solves the only reliable way to tell. The WRC has a precedent about disallowing frame by frame analysis for timer starts. This means unless it is caught by the judge in real time (which sliding starts are hard to do) you can’t retroactively +4 the solves. People in the WRC are currently discussing the matter, and have stated you should NOT attempt sliding starts as they ARE illegal. I know I will certainly be looking out for the technique from now on as a judge.

@solver5k

5 күн бұрын

I'm sure WRC is well aware perhaps 25% of judges are also first-timers at most comps, and we all started there, focused mainly on calling out 8 seconds. Even as a seasoned competitor, I'm not sure I would detect a sliding start.

@maxxiong

5 күн бұрын

FWIW judging sliding starts in real time are problematic because you need to actually establish that the slide results in an illegal start. Also I do have suspicions that Yiheng's time malfunctioned and was detecting input without contact (yes I have seen this failure mode on a gen 4 before).

@cookierobber

5 күн бұрын

​@@maxxiong There are other videos of Yiheng doing this kind of start in other averages and getting the same results (~0 difference between his recorded time and solving time, which shouldn't be possible)

Good job yiheng you've officially killed 2x2

This is a great video that really well explains sliding, but you shouldn’t be acting like it’s legal, and encouraging people to slide until the WRC releases an official statement. There have been delegates saying it allowed, and others who say it’s completely illegal so it’s probably not the best idea to tell everyone it’s legal until a statement is released.

4:10 Moreover, judges usually don't even look at you when you start, they look at the stopwatch (which IMO is a mistake), so you could abuse it even further.

Just straight up, this needs to not be a thing. I know that there are several drawbacks to trying to enforce proper timer starts, but the sanctity of the results should be the most important thing here, and sliding starts explicitly break the rules. The WCA’s vision is to see speedcubing as more of a sport and less of a hobby (which is a whole Nother matter) but when even addressing this problem is controversial, it’s hard to take the WCA seriously.

The easy solution to fix this problem is to use the new gen stackmat with thumb function right?

@STUCUBE

5 күн бұрын

Yeah it’s just that stops are a little harder with it. I think Tymon did an ao1000 and got around his global average

@simonpraschl5339

5 күн бұрын

@@STUCUBE sure the stops are a little harder but its the same for everyone and also you will get used to it once you practice these stops.

@hughjass3184

5 күн бұрын

​@STUCUBE I haven't checked myself but the stops are still only 2 pad from what I know so they aren't affected.

@skwebjacob

5 күн бұрын

@@hughjass3184 they're not, I just tried it and they're really hard, if the stops could be 2 pad that would be a very viable solution though I think. (ryan pilat talked about this in WCA forum sliding discussion I think it's a great idea)

@cookierobber

5 күн бұрын

​@@hughjass3184 No

Yeah the reason you can get negative times is becouse if you look at some yihengs solve you can see that he is doing the first move and the timer still shows 0.000

@fatsquirrel75

5 күн бұрын

Simply because there is a very minor delay with the display. But once the timer is stopped it will display the correct time.

Curious to see how this will help with other rush events if at all

6:12 Nice segway... 😜

Love your vids do you edit them yourself

That last line. Sliding in kindergarden 😁 Big dub bro, big dub.

The WCA should remove this record because of 2 rules about starting: 1) You need to start with your fingers and 2) your palms need to be facing down on the side of the competitor. Sliding move your fingers to the point they aren't touching the surface of the timer and your palms are now on the timer, and not at your side. Solution to prevent this: switch to 4-pad in all events. We will be fine.

It seems like better technology might be needed soon. Like something that detects contact with the cube itself. What if a slider is still touching the StackMat when they pick up the cube? How is a judge meant to tell when it might happen for only a fraction of a second?

Just regulate the timers and make the slopes go the other way, or something to the shape that stops this.

I wonder how much the times are going to be cut down with sliding in 1x1 events 🤔

devs need to update the game this new slidding meta is broken

Need new tech to change the timer to start on cube pickup and then end on the double tap. That way everyone is on the same playing field

it should not be legal at all. going by the same logic, you could literally already just put your hand closer to the cube, no need to slide. oh but guess what? thats bannable sliding is the same thing but adding motion to it. theres no reason why this should be deemed legal by WCA its literally breaking the rules

that outro scared the shit outta me😭😭

0:41 This went harder than it should ngl

I cant wait for the -0.62 wr single

Just add another StackMat sensor under to cube to start the time, remove pick up time and make it equal for everbody.

sliding is super hard I tried it a lot but I'm bad at normal pickup so that checks

Has there been any discussion on four-pad timers such as the StackMat G5?

Saw the notif on Discord because KZread never sends their notifs lol. 😅

Just wondering whether people use the same methodology to analyze solves from other people's, and what are the results

nice can't wait for the 0.0X 2x2 world record by yiheng wang

Since this technique exploits flaws in the equipment used to start the timer, the community has to decide if this fits within the spirit of what they're trying to speedrun (i.e., executing the turns necessary to solve the cube) and how important it is to maintain this spirit. Then the rules or the equipment will have to be updated according to what the community values. This is a similar sort of discussion that leads to new categories in many videogame speedruns, especially those that have been rendered almost unrecognizable through stuff like arbitrary code execution or extremely heavy use of glitches, where it can be argued that this is no longer playing the game. But at the end of the day, this totally depends on what the community values in their competition, since the rules are ultimately arbitrary.

This has a very straight forward solution. The timers need to be made robust against this. It's impossible to catch by naked eye so technology will have to step in.

I swear how

This is like when that pro Tetris gamer invented the controller technique known as “rolling” years ago.

Me and some of my cubing friends have a discord server and me and like 5 other went into a VC to practice sliding together this morning💀

the cfb of cubing

Please give me a stackmat slide tutorial 🙏

1 view and 9 likes goes crazy edit: good vid stu 😊

Yo this kid is unreal

Imagine, 0.1 second 2x2 solve 😮

If you can't touch the cube while holding the timer, then shouldn't negative pickup time runs be disqualified? It seems like a risky strategy to me.

Speed stacks need to be updated so that they vibrate and/or beep to signal a start after a random amount of time with the fingers contacting the pads. They can program them so that there is a minimum required time discrepancy between hearing/feeling the beep or vibration signaling the start, and the fingers leaving the pads. Or, the better solution in my opinion is to have a device that the cube rests on that records the moment that the cube leaves the surface. It shouldn’t be hard to do these days; maybe it would require a thin, electrically conductive sticker to be placed on the white center cap for example.

@Cuboctus

3 күн бұрын

Except WSSA regulations specifically allow the competitor to hold their hands on the timer as long as they want

Everyone talking about sliding but i keep thinking Yi Heng pulling up in hood to drive-by the opps.

basically rolling in tetris if you think about it

Time to start sliding in clock 😂

I don’t think he violates the regs that people are citing. He did start the timer with his palms facing down and fingers on the timer, and if it starts before he touches the cube then he hasn’t touched it while starting the timer. Also the rule about no physical contact “while starting the solve”makes no sense, how can you start to solve it if you can’t be touching it, when do you exit the “starting” phase. If it’s just talking about having to start the timer before touching it, then he doesn’t break the reg as long as it the timer starts before he actually touches it.

I like when you say that people will have a better time without getting better at the event...but this is the event ! If anybody can train and achieve the same result, it's part of the game. It's like saying that lubing and setting up the cube, having 120 magnets in it, using a coating or those small pouchs used to warm up or remove the sweat is unfair just because it wasnt used 10 years ago.

wait isnt there a regulation that your fingers have to be on the timer right before it starts, and sliding has it start when the palms are touching the timer

@STUCUBE

5 күн бұрын

Yes

I really like this content though

Hypothetically, could I (someone who can solve a 2x2 although slowly) just slide my hands off the timer but keep my forearms on it, my hands wouldn’t be on the timer, and I could technically solve the entire cube before starting the timer.

beliver

Delegates at my comp i had today mentioned this and had to announce it during 2x2: SLIDING IS ILLEGAL. You cannot make contact with the cube before the timer starts, and only your fingers are allowed to be on the stackmat to start the timer, ending it is fine to use palm though. THIS MAKES SLIDING ILLEGAL, MEANING WHEN STUCUBE CHECKS THE REGS (no offense btw), HE MISSED THOSE RULES. SLIDING ISSUES A +4 PENALTY BECAUSE YOU ARE BREAKING 2 +2s

yeah so 2x2 is about to be destroyed with this technique i might practice it as well since i have a 1.11 average

doesn't regulation A4b prevent sliding?

4-pad is coming

I knew this was gonna be posted since someone broke a wr

When is the 2x2 wr going to be -2 seconds

Solution? High speed camera conteolled by AI that detects when the cube is touched, and only then it starts the timer.

Honestly, if a time seems like it is wr it should be framecounted instead of using the stackmat time. Negative pickup times are ABSOLUTELY cheating, no matter how you twist it.

Now we need to create a timer that starts when we move ours hand not lift.

The problem I have with sliding is that it is possible to do turns in inspection before the timer starts (this can be seen in one of the solves of Yihengs at home 0.71 average), which means that times and records could be irrelevant. Like if I have a time of say 0.49, but then frame by frame shows that I held the cube for at least 0.55 seconds, did I really solve the cube in 0.49 seconds? Does my time mean anything?

@Fun_Cube_Master

5 күн бұрын

Yes bro like I grinded to avg 1.2 but now everybody is using sliding

@hughjass3184

5 күн бұрын

Yeah, see speedstacks. This entire thing already happened, and it's the whole reason 4 pad exists.

@cookierobber

5 күн бұрын

He did that on the first solve of the 0.78 average already. His time spent solving was literally longer than the recorded time, so he was for sure doing turns while the timer wasn't running

19 tps is just insane for 2x2 like what

@thecalculatedcreativecoder1428

5 күн бұрын

Well its actually around 16.13 without sliding (which is still completely ludicrous)

lol all the short events now are probably sub 1able for official ao5 with this technique

but what is sliding tho

You can simply use footage to accurately count the time. Of course, the cameras would need to have high frame rate and every single solve would need to be filmed perfectly. A nightmare in logistics and not practical to use in worldwide competitions. But technically, possible.

If sliding is as effective as we think it is, the WR single would be 0.28 😮

1:51, that's a 4 ten thousands, not 4 thousands

They are probably nerfing sliding in the next update.

Hi

when a pro 2x2er gets a 4 mover and uses sliding (or yiheng) they are getting a sub 0.3

0:44 the timer didnt

Bro look at Teodor Zajder

The only sliding I’m good at is into dms

Eventually, sliding and timers will be irrelevant. They'll all be smart cubes.😊 The clock will start on the first turn, and end on the solve. Besides, it happens so fast you can't even see it... Are we going to do slow motion camera reviews of every solve in order to determine its legitimacy? You're going to need expensive high speed cameras and monitors to do that. Then, like in sports, sometimes you still can't tell. 😅

@principle6261

2 күн бұрын

Yeah smart cubes makes a lot more sense. Plus then you would be able to reconstruct every solve and more accurately calculate +2s.