I have NEVER, in 18 years developing products, found a no code platform that we didn't have to go and develop components, customisation, special parameters, you name it. PoC? OK. Go ahead with no code. Simple landing page or personal site? OK as well. My personal experience with any use case other than these ones is bad!

@PhilLesh69

11 күн бұрын

No code is like foam board, an exact knife and elmers glue for architects. I You build scale modeks, not production code with it. Nobody builds a building using the same materials and techniques they used to build the demo model. No code is for a rapidly developed mock up.

@dvhh

10 күн бұрын

Slightly longer career, but a lots of IDE a very close to no-code experience, I think the closest I got was with MS Access, of course as mentioned customization is non existent. Moving forward, Dreamweaver generated rather ok code, and from a very superficial point of view, a good no-code experience (but still flawed and open to a lot of vulnerabilities). Of course these are rather old experience, web and application landscape have vastly changed, and expectations have also changed (for the better). My take would be that no-code/low code should help get you kickstated in learning more code, reducing the amount of boilerplate code. The problem pointed out in this video, is that these no-code platform did not account for some degree of play nor customization, or customization that is so obscure that it requires a very high level of skill. I have some interest in low-code platform that help you with the boilerplate code and offer a way to connect your interface and your customized logic.

@BillClinton228

8 күн бұрын

This is also why AI will not replace programmers, it can generate some simple code but enterprise grade applications are pretty complex with a lot of business focused nuances. I know everyone has bought into the AI hype, just like they bought into the Blockchain and Big Data hype. But crypto hasnt replaced world wide fiat currencies and AI will not replace complex programming jobs as easily as our corporate overlords want to believe.

@hopelessdecoy

8 күн бұрын

I think the real issue with no code is the spaghetti. I mean sometimes with libraries you still have to make custom components because it just doesn't do exactly what you need but libraries are not generating custom code behind them.

@quantum5768

7 күн бұрын

@@BillClinton228I'm glad I've finally found someone else that sees AI the same way as me. It all stems for the 80/20 rule, you spent 20% of the time getting something to 80% ready, then 80% of the time to get that last 20%. It's super easy to make a prototype, it's really difficult to make it work 99.9% of the time. Coding isn't hard, problem solving is, most of what software engineers do is the problem solving part, which AI/no code can't do for you.

Agreed. Senior engineer here - would never encourage a no code solution. Props to you for exploring and trying to figure it out - it’s a valuable lesson for everyone

@lazymass

2 күн бұрын

Senior here, today is first day I saw "no ode" for something more advanced like mobile apps... And why am I not surprised it's basically just templates... With bad code as output...

@akirathedog777

21 сағат бұрын

Code-monkeys everywhere loosing their minds lmao Cry more, youre not special, learn to no-code.

I am a very experienced developer, and my advice to people is to avoid no-code solutions. I think they are a fallacy. If you are serious about creating software, you are much better off putting in the time and learning how to code and other related development processes.

@deechonada

5 күн бұрын

What about someone coming from a strictly design based background with little programming knowledge (the very basics). Isnt there some merit to producing the front end and then fix it up towards the end? I don't expect to never learn code but I've always build visually. Also from your experience, could you explain to me some examples of customisations that are limited with no code builders? What kind of scope are we talking here. What kind of features would you say make it practically impossible to work with no code?

@attilaguba856

4 күн бұрын

I totally agree with you! I'm working with .Net , C# ! I've just got recently got a new client because the client tried use WordPress and it failed with many plugins! I can see people are struggling with Wix too! Avoid drag-drop stuff to build app.

@iamnoone3588

20 сағат бұрын

@@deechonadaive worked with webflow, once you move away from its built in features youll start having a bad time tm. An example would be numbered pagination/cms filtering would only take 1 day for a good developer to implement from scratch but with low code it would take a lot of jumping hoops i see the value tho, for very simple sites and designs nocode/low code is really good just dont use it on projects that get scope creeped hard

IBM Visual Age was a 98% completion product. The missing 2% would take a team of programmers many years to complete. Every time IBM was asked when the missing features would be added and critical issues resolved, the answer was always 18 to 24 months.

@wajeehulhassan_vii

9 күн бұрын

They will abandon it like Apple car.

@datacoderX

3 күн бұрын

@@wajeehulhassan_vii IBM gave Visual Age up and created eclipse toreplace everything.

@scharlesworth93

4 сағат бұрын

I knew a guy who worked on Visual Age. He was NOT having a good time....

0:58 Flutter is a framework, Dart is the language. Apart from that, yes, no code is a trap. It always has been, and probably will be for many years to come.

No code platforms provide a limited set of functionality predefined. Is pretty much a template. The moment you step out of the "template", your run into customizations which can rapidly become chaos integrating with the said "template"

@paulscottrobson

7 күн бұрын

Every time. I remember the first of these in 1981 ! "the last program you'll ever need" .... it wasn't.

@terrabrandtech

7 күн бұрын

yesssss

I've always wanted to hear someone speaking about this.

@johnyepthomi892

10 күн бұрын

No code that works for specific limited role should not be taken as no code for everything. It can work for simple apis but in most cases would require custom code to make it work.

I've worked with Power Automate that is another low code/no code platform and while it is quite powerful and allows you to do A LOT there were still close to zero use -cases where we didn't need to build our own custom APIs to automate the things our client needed and we automated more than 60 different business processes with a bunch of systems involved so it was a wide range of things that had to be solved. Version control is also an issue with low code platforms. Also- you should still get experienced software developers to do the low/no code projects of you want to make them more or less maintainable. Non-technical users will make spaghetti almost every time.

The main use case for no/low code is the "citizen developer" that wants to put forms and lists over a spreadsheet and create more of an "app" for internal use.

The problem with nocode is you absolutely need to know what you need to do before you start and you need to determine which nocode tool will actually fit your needs. Each tool has different abilities and shortfalls. No code has made me a king in my career. When I need something custom I just code it myself. No code can take 5 minutes to do what code takes a week.

@mansgotjokes

12 күн бұрын

Exaclty bro no code is here changing lives 😊😊

@dumdum407

12 күн бұрын

It also requires the app to never require custom modifications for it's entire lifetime

@PetrandoRichard

12 күн бұрын

Agree with dumdum above 👆 if you thrive with no code platform, you must be able to negotiate with the client to never use customized components that you can not build

@pcnerd5994

11 күн бұрын

Yeah, the same for me too. I work for agency team that create Enterprise application for small to medium company in my local area. the no code tool helps us a lot but the only reason it works for us is because our boss has 12 years' experience in software development.

@promisenwanno5969

11 күн бұрын

If you really know what you are doing, why would you want to not code. The fact that you are considering no code simply tells us you have no idea what you are doing. I can bet it's faster to code than the drag and drop on a long run, so why waste your time. Drag and drop are for businesses that don't want to hire a developer and do things themselves. Why would you call yourself a developer if you don't want to code? Are we joking here!?

Hi, informative video..... Just a very (probably insignificant pick)... The language is *Dart* The app development framework is *Flutter*

@mitigamespro8757

11 күн бұрын

Would've been nice if she mentioned what kind of developer she is, and what programming languages she knows. Maybe i'll take a look at some of her videos for an answer...

@IStMl

10 күн бұрын

@@mitigamespro8757 bam, she got you engaged in her channel

Thanks a bunch for this! You confirm my suspicions without me having to suffer thru the process.

Don't let anyone tell you 'no-code'. Low code yes, I've been working with Microsoft Power Apps (canvas apps) for several years now and have had great success. No issues scaling, but it does take code! To do anything more complex than a basic CRUD app you will need (or need to learn) development experience.

These "no code" platforms are only good for the simplest, cookie-cutter use cases. They are a rip-off at best and a racket at worst. Great video, thanks!

Love your summary and your story telling. Thanks for your experience with flutter flow, this probably saves me some headache.

The problem with no-code is that they sell it for non-technical people and each of them have their own learning curve. and other problem is that. no-code actually doesn' t exists. it's all low-code. I work with Webflow, and everytime I'm doing some simple javascript. Low code has their merits and it's a powerful tool in the hands of a specialist. but you need to learn how to deal with each one limitations.

@kevinsedwards

12 күн бұрын

If you're using webflow you should feel shame

@waltermelo1033

12 күн бұрын

@@kevinsedwards I'm not using Webflow because of lack of skill to code, I can do a website with code anytime I need to. It's just that I did not choose Webflow, Webflow choose me and it pay my bills.

@daphenomenalz4100

8 күн бұрын

@@kevinsedwards It's good when you want to make animations that would probably take a lot of time if done manually, it's better to save time when it comes to something like html css lmao

@kevinsedwards

8 күн бұрын

@@daphenomenalz4100 if you're skilled and have a good framework, you're much faster than webflow and better.

@kevinsedwards

8 күн бұрын

@@waltermelo1033 it only pays the bills because webflow has good marketing. There's always some potato head client who falls for marketing then wants you to use it

Really apreciate the advice, im learning to code and have plan to learn no code tools also, I was specting no code tools to be insuficient, but It surprises me they have the isues you have mentioned, everione wants to sell the new magic money maker but I hear no body talk about the limitations, thank you for sharing your expirience, Is encouraging to hear hard working and honest people.

Great analysis once more Dee. At the moment, no code is not mature enough for high grade, highly customizable applications.

@codingwithdee

12 күн бұрын

Definitely. I’m sure it will get better in future but I don’t think it will be anytime soon. Thanks for watching!

@arkimphiri

12 күн бұрын

@@codingwithdee That's why I have stayed away from no-code, when the time is right if ever, will jump in

Flutter isn't a language, its a framework. Dart is the programming language Flutter is based on.

Great and honest review ... No code is like: Make a cake... without learning how to cook Go places... without learning how to walk Build a house.. without touching a brick Bring ideas to life... without learning how to do nor think a get-code-quick scheme sounds alarmingly similar to get-rich-quick scheme... they all get you 10% of the way and leave you there..

@paulscottrobson

7 күн бұрын

As an oldie I remember one of these that ran on a tape drive on the PET (1981) which claimed to be the last program you'll ever need. There've been many panacea since. I can't think of an older one than that.

Have you used Zapier? How is it? Or does it compare to these?

Finally someone is speaking up. A lot of people fall for the marketing ploys of these platforms especially those gullible managers. There litttle to no voice speaking up against them. So thanks a lot for your video and keep it going ❤

WordPress also suffer from this. As a WordPress developer, I have built many websites app using WordPress but always fall short into scalability issues and limitation. Another problem with this is that your are enforce to learn the page builder of their choice. It can either be gutenburg, elementor, divi, newspaper, or so many too mentions. You are forced to learn it but they are technically not transferable to any other programming language or migrating from another platform. No code solutions are not inherently bad; You just have to understand their limitation. Before committing to building an app with no-code tools, your client and team should identify these limitations and agree on the terms.

@juanamillo

9 күн бұрын

WordPress "developer"? 😂😂😂😂 That was a good one.

@ian-tumulak

9 күн бұрын

@@juanamillo You never heard of WordPress developer was a thing? You are probably still in college when that role sprung up. Let me lecture you. WordPress devs don't just deal with no-code, we fill the roles for Theme/Plugin customization or creating one from scratch. We also create or extend widgets to these page builder so that we meet client specification. We also incorporate WP CLI and REST API. These things involves coding and a lot of WordPress shenanigans to account for. Working and mastering a page builders is one the biggest thorn of my career. It is hard to negotiate a client and tell them to build everything in code because they will think it is an expensive route and they will have hard time with maintenance or making enhancements since most clients has no coding experience. We sometime laugh at something we don't understand, I feel you. Even myself laugh the hell out when I first heard "prompt engineering" was a thing.

@Arjun44598

8 күн бұрын

@@juanamillo Lol who do you thinks builds the plugins? Writes the themes? Tell me you're inexperienced without telling me, also immature and condescending.

Thank you! You've validated that good quality code is still a manual affair.

Be kind to yourself. We don't call it LAZY, we call it the 'Principle of Least Effort'.

Great summary. Without producing maintainable code, with customization option built in so that developers can actually take an app forward, using any low code / no code platform should be a non-starter.

Great video Dee, very well explained. No code app dev is full of holes

I am a computer teacher for students in a British international secondary school. Next school year I will teach the basics of how to make apps. Since it is going to be one of these no-coding alternatives, I am grateful that I saw your presentation.

@paulscottrobson

7 күн бұрын

Twas ever thus. Years ago they used to usual Visual BASIC 3.0 drag and drop ; that's pretty much all they did, but the "wow he/she wrote a windows app" fooled examiners.

@doobybrother21

2 күн бұрын

Maybe look into MIT''s App Inventor. It's geared towards education.

This video saved me tons of time. They feel confused for a reason. Thank you.

One advantage of no code tools is that it has created many jobs. I'm a freelancer and about 20% of my gigs todays are in fixing or rebuilding apps that were built using no code tools. It's either it doesnt work as expected, or some function stops working because the client forgot to renew some subscription or that the no code provider no longer exists. The more no code tools they release the happier i am.

Thank GOD, someone spoke about this No code industry. I was scared, if no code do everything then why there's need of Software engineers. It's a business.

Thanks a lot Miss Dee! You saved from wasting a real precious time I don´t have! A million thanks from Fortaleza. CE, Brazil!

No-Code just can't cover all use cases. It's like borrowing someone else's toolbox. Writing the code yourself removes these limits. Edit: Great video by the way, been wondering when someone would discuss this.

Coding is the easy part. Someone who doesn't understand what they need isn't going to develop anything useful unless they have someone who can separate the needs from the wants. The specific problem with no-code development is that the mapping between the knowledge in their code (or metacode) can't map well to more than a small subset of the problems that exist in real space. Once you have a unique requirement, it's very unlikely that there is a way to satisfy it.

Just came across this vid and wow it mirrors my experience with flutterflow. I love flutterflow but even in my project I hit a wall and realised it just couldn’t do what I wanted. Its awesome for simple stuff like demos

The thing with no code solutions is that you need to be very willing to adapt your business/project to the platform, and not the other way around that is the normal approach when developing apps with code. You always need to settle for 90 - 95 % in the best case where you have picked the best platform for your project. For most projects there is no way to know exactly what you want ahead of time, and definitely not where you are going to end up after you talk to your actual users. The chance that you will able able to get anywhere near 90 % is therefore pretty low. The only way to make good apps is to develop them iteratively while you gather as much info and data as possible from user users and target audience. That is pretty much impossible with no code platforms and is the largest flaw with no code platforms in my experience. You will end up when a pretty bad app that will be really hard to sell, so it is probably hard to use even as a PoC or MVP. It's usnually way better to try to make a pretty polished a PoC or MVP with a very limited feature set and let real users use it.

@ArneChristianRosenfeldt

6 күн бұрын

So it is like SAP or MS Business Central .

Just a small detail - "Flutter" is not a language, but a UI framework, based on the programming language "Dart". I tried it once and found it quite cool - got something nice running with very little code (compared to horribly cluttered coding in good old Java). But then when I re-opened that project 3 months later, a lot was broken and did not build anymore, once my IDE had updated Flutter. After looking at the release notes for Flutter, I realized that they seem to introduce breaking changes all the time... and this is a no-go for me. I guess I will keep looking for a better alternative.

Wow, you've just saved me some time... wanted to build a really complex app, thankfully I learnt flutter first

It kind of reminds me of the drag-and-drop Web Builders that were pushed Years ago! They would get you started, but required you to have to go through the code to fix the bad spots! And there were a plethora of issues! While they have gotten somewhat better, you still need to know the code. Programming Code is more intense and there are so many paths one can go down that drag and drop would automatically be limiting and if the code is bad so will the app be bad!

@codingwithdee

12 күн бұрын

Yes exactly! Those web builders were horrible. Definitely learned my lesson ☠️

@Pensandoci9

11 күн бұрын

Drag-n-drop web builders are used by enterprise companies all over the world on a daily basis. There are agencies, freelancers, and an ecosystem of plugins and add-ons for website builders like Webflow and Framer. All websites on these platforms are hosted on secure servers, deploy similar code, and follow best practices. In some cases, a website on Webflow is more stable and performant than a website you commission to a random developer. Not all platforms are the same, and the idea of "limitations" is quite abstract. There are limits in everything you choose, including hiring a developer. Cost limits are real limits, the dev skillset is a real limit, etc.

@mind_of_a_darkhorse

11 күн бұрын

@@Pensandoci9 True! But I was talking about the Web Builders in their infancy and I know they have gotten a lot better, but they still are not perfect, and knowing how to code, is still a good idea.

@InternationalScholars

10 күн бұрын

​@@Pensandoci9I agree with you 💯

No code is pretty much one evidence that “devin” or whatever these AI developers are called will not replace developers anytime soon. They either write horrible code that’s not customizable or it’s buggy code that still needs knowledgable people to debug it. I’d say, give it about 5 decades before it’s truly a thread to us engineers

@mousepotatodoesstuff

8 күн бұрын

And by that time it will be a threat to the system as we know it anyway so we'll either be set or cooked anyway.

@chrisc9725

6 күн бұрын

5 decades??? More like 5 years.

@MarkBetterDev

6 күн бұрын

@@chrisc9725 I see why you would think that but remember news about not having data anymore to train these models?, that's why I'm expecting decades.

@judeonukogu3977

5 күн бұрын

This will happen within 2 years.

@DayTripTookItTo10

5 күн бұрын

@@MarkBetterDevYoooo you right about the running out of data thing. Dayum

You’ve just saved me SO much time and heartache

This echoes my sentiments about no-code. It’s actually easier & cooler to learn flutter and just learn by doing. Thanks for this🎉

The "no code" philosophy: there's no point learning to drive because everybody can simply catch a taxi.

Thanks for your video. Really like your background with the titanic and spacecrafts. The colors though shift as you move in the frame. Maybe you could lock or set a custom the white balance setting in your camera.

Every programming language has some limitations too and depending on the dev skills it can still be difficult to scale or not secured. In no code, it just have a lot more limitation and needs a know how to make it more scalable and secured.

Yo you bring back that memory i really wanted to forget😢,I lost a lot of my time in no code build app

Thank you for sharing. I agree. These no-code platforms are too restrictive and customization is limited. I got into Webflow in 2017 and had to deal with a lot of growing pains, but they are the best so far. You do need coding skills for any of these platforms to make at one point or another. I bought into Framer, but never used it because building an ecommerce site was no good. Figma is my choice for prototyping and designing.

I have seen a wave of "you won't have to write code" products in every decade since the 1980s. They have all failed for exactly the reasons you explain here.

A long time ago, DreamWeaver had a menu link to an app-building service offered by Adobe. This reminds me of that lock-in model.

In my evaluation, most "no code" are garbage that leaves out the critical parts of actual software development like proper debugging and testing support, or even version tracking. Avoid at all cost. But, there are some "low code" platforms that are more similar to Rapid Application Development from the 90's that don't pretend that actual coding and debugging is not needed. In my evalulations, so far, AppSmith seems to be the best balance and is under an Open Source license.

Love your take on this, after customizing websites for some faculties in my collage and hospital as my side job which they use wordpress for some reason. Lately i have always asked my client wether they want a highly customizable web or just a website with a little customization here and there 😅

You talk a lot of not being able to complete it and being restricted, but not a lot of the actual issue you was facing. What couldn't you do in FF?

Dang, it’s sad to hear this because I was thinking about trying a no-code approach.

I think the good way to compare this is, in code, you're pretty much never going to have an issue where you need to open React under the hood to fix your product. In nocode, you're always going to have that issue. So basically this added layer makes the easier things simple and the harder things dramatically more complex.

That's valid and I agree that the marketing of these things is almost misleading. But I will provide maybe something for no-code/low-code (LCNC) platforms to defend themselves. If you are aware of developing and want to build scalable applications then don't bother with LCNC and do it with a group of developers, that will be able to help maintain the product afterwards. But there's another place where LCNC can be used and it's for small teams in for example corporate environments where you can provide a such set of tools to create some form, landing pages or whatever else to business and not bother the IT teams with it. That's where it lays but only in corporations/big companies and with great guidance

There are plenty of good no code systems. Geometry Nodes in Blender, Blueprints in Unreal, Bifrost in Maya....

@scharlesworth93

4 сағат бұрын

there aren't

That was informative, thanks for the information, Love from Philippines.

Flutterflow's no code is mostly in the UI side. Still have to jump into the dart file often to get custom functions to work properly. Good thing is that many of the AI's out there are semi-decent at writing the solutions you need.

I misread this as: No "code will fail" Instead of: "No code" will fail Anyone else?

And what about no-code platforms to build videogames? Like Construct 3? Could you say something about it?

no code/low code... as a PO/PM with extensive experience with a few of bigger platforms, big conclusion is: it quickly becomes "no-low code"...with potential higher cost IF you want something that is more than a very basic "citizen developed" app. Saying it is a trap, I woud disagree. Some pitfalls I came across during an extensive study on these platforms are the security, data privacy, hidden integration and licensing costs, overall app maintenance, etc... yet I still believe there is a viable and good profitable usage for these platforms and it can be very efficient for companies if the chosen low code environment integrates or is part of wider eco-system (eg MS, Google) that is already in use. About the "getting it done right first time", that is a bit far stretched, I have experienced many so called "pro-coders" just getting me half baked solutions, that were never really finished, where a shamble of things glued together (elsewhere sourced components, databases, connectors) and were impossible to maintain (with very high cost).

It's the same with every platform because you are limited to what they provide and their language. My company started using Microsoft's platform and I made a simple app there, but it was a pain from the start. Sure, I don't need to learn to make UI and it's integrated with their systems so it was easy to use that, but I had to code even a simple date and time selection and calculation logic, which would be a lot easier in a normal programming language. So it wasn't "no code" and it's difficult to document and maintain because every piece of code is in a separate block. What the platforms sell is a pipe dream. They could as well say that on their platform you'll be able to paint portraits without the ability to paint. But what they actually provide is a bunch of parts with which you can build a couple of standard pictures. Maybe you can stretch and rotate the nose a bit but it's still the same nose and if you want to actually paint something else, you need to do it yourself. With a limited palette and one brush that is too large for detail and too small for broad strokes. You not only still have to learn to paint, but also do it their own, proprietary way that doesn't translate to normal painting. To people who say that learning programming is easy - no, it's not. It's not for most of my coworkers and it's not for me. Sure, I can do some scripting in Python and some small CLI apps in Go and I've even learned some basic C in my day, but I've never touched native UI or APIs. And I've been playing with coding on and off both in my free time and at work. Most people don't need it for their job and are not interested in it. But we still need tools, which is why the no-code platforms exist.

I think the point is that you can iterate faster on no code so you learn more about the problem that you’re solving in a shorter amount of time. If you know exactly what you’re building and you know how to code…..sure, use code. On scalability, you’re going to rebuild your app a bunch as you scale regardless of what stack you use…again unless you know exactly what you’re building from the jump. All of these are tools at the end of the day, you need to choose the right one for the job. But I also agree with you that No Code marketing makes it seem like it solves all the world's problems.

Great video! I'm trying to convince a colleague that we are better off building apps without these tools but alas they want to convenience.

This isn't exactly the same as when enterprise apps utilizing "serverless APIs" was in vogue, but boy this reminds me SO much of that. It's like every five years or so some company swoops in promising managers and sales people who don't understand software engineering a solution to all their problems, but that solution contains unforeseen tradeoffs.

This is ages old. I can remember, when in the late 80ies the first "Click an Play" game engine came out, called Nemo, if I remember correctly. It was great to see some quick prototyping results, but as soons as you came to real data structures for levels and actors, you had to code again and integrating in this framework was a real mess. Hell, what am I happy to have the mostly good working hot reloading of c# code in Unity now!

Oh damn, I really did dodge a bullet here. I was strongly considering using Flutterflow...but decided to just go with React Native Thanks for this. I still thought low code had a usecase. But I guess going fullcode will always be advantageous.

thanks for confirming my suspicions Dee!

I agree with you that these no-code platforms aren't always honest; they might be great marketers or just liars. From my experience building apps for clients using no-code app builders for over two years, almost any app is possible, but you need to know how to code at some point unless it's a super basic app. My main issue with these no-code platforms is that having to pay a subscription is just crazy. If you had hired a developer, you might pay for maintenance, but it's not the same. Plus, it's good to have access to the codebase of your app, in my opinion.

Perfect for building internal tools in businesses up to 1,000 employees using them as web-Apps. They enable quicker faster decision making, a robust relational database and ease of automation. This gives you visibility, collaboration and efficiency. You just leverage the functionality they give. But I agree for some Apps it’s not going to work. The right tool…

Flutter is a framework and dart is the language

Have you tried the WWX stack? Webflow, Wized, and Xano or Supabase or Firebase for that matter. It's not exactly no code, more like low-code but you can build customized web apps.

very helpful, thx! - I always thought it'd had to be a trap on the long run for serious projects, you confirm my estimation, so I/we haven't got to go through this with these newer systems👏🌞 These kind of "out of the box solutions", even starting with wordpress are actually the reason for new clients offering me word: "we have this almost ready, but we can't do X. Can you fix this and add another feature?" - the "fix" then often is just the start ... - that said, I think these systems can improve a lot, soon. Due to AI agency. The question is just when, ...

Thanks! This will help a lot of people to not fall on this trap. Maybe this is good only for MVPs

Thank you for sharing your experience. It will for sure help a lot of people from spending time and money at similar products and instead focus at better suitable stacks.

No Code doesn't work and has been bothering the industry for decades now. I'm really good at breaking those "silver bullet" frameworks with my first prototype, so I do not trust them anymore. E.g. my prototype for Visual Basic was a minesweeper clone with buttons properly resizing when the windows is enlarged. It failed because that version of Visual Basic couldn't create that many new buttons during runtime (limit of 1024 new widgets?). I had a deja-vu because ago, when playing Sid Meier's Railroads I ran into a hard limit of 256 signals and stations that stopped me from increasing my railway network. An 8-bit limit on a 16-bit machine. ( I never found such a limit in Factorio - an impressive large scale game!).

Yes! Idea to a profitable app with no/low code is a "trap". That's why there are so many coaches and instructors. See tennis for example. The old saying, "more money is made giving advice than taking it". :) In software dev, you will also hear, "the 1st 90% of project takes 10% of the time (and money), the last 10% takes 90%". Holler if we can help.

Shorts cuts end in failure. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully others will learn

Thanks for this honest feedback. I'll still keep using FF though to test and validate my concepts. I think we shouldn't forget a very important point: these tools have existed for a very short time, and FF is improving extremely fast. If the progression goes along with AI's (which btw is becoming incredibly good at coding), I guess we could soon (under 3 years) have revolutionary ways to build apps. Maybe could you make a feedback video about these no-code tools each year to see if you progressively change your mind 😜

Thanks. As a dev, it would be interesting to see the actual blocks thay you have encountered

Nobody in the software development community was asking for this, it was the hope of the No-Code software vendor that they could draw in a bigger group of non-programmers to make something. No-code is no-go for real stuff. Years-years-years ago (25+) software toolkits had wizards to do stuff quick for you, that was the same horror, ok for the start, but when you start using it you can not go back-forth between wizard/custom style and you are ending up in custom anyhow.....

I totally agree with her statement regarding all these no code apps. Just marketing materials

A classic case of it makes easy things easier, but hard things harder.

I'm at the same spot. I'm starting to feel like I got suckered, now I'm 98% done and stuck on a problem that there seems to be no solution for and I'm thinking about downloading the code to try to solve it outside of flutterflow. ...Sux being the sucker.

Hi. Thanks for your reviews. I am a web & mobile developer. I think that if you want to build a mobile app, at least you need to know how to read the generated code because you obviously cannot fully rely on those auto-generated code 😁

Not to mention that many current apps and website require analytics, which can be integrated only using code, unless the platform has a support for your tool. But it doesn't very often, so you have to write code and this completely destroys the purpose of such platforms.

You hit the nail on the coffin. I am using flutter flow and look at it as a good tool to get a poc together or use for an internal app within a company. I look at flutter flow as a low code solution for pocs or an internal app

I have basic idea of coding and I've been using bubble for well over 5 years. I think it depends on what u are building. I have had some hurdles to overcome when customizing but overall my experience has been good.I have built at least 15 apps both for clients and myself.

@anantghere1

8 күн бұрын

dear sir ..can i go for bubble for my some basic apps?plz tell me to save my time....waiting for your reply

@tibuigerard1564

8 күн бұрын

@@anantghere1 One thing I can say is that if you've never ever built an app before on any nocode platform or on wordpress, and you are not tech savvy, hire someone, because the learning curve might be high for u. Otherwise go for it It is one of the best, when it comes to customization. You can look up some apps that some people have done to confirm

@brainbowlofi

4 күн бұрын

@@anantghere1 i can answer on behalf as i am a bubble user(3 yrs) as well, basic apps shoudnt be a problem i wud say,

No-code is definitely work in progress, but also definitely the future of development. Customization and integration limitations are being sorted out gradually, and AI won't but boost this revolution of coding from a visual or natural language interface. The article on Bubble is from 2021, a lot has changed since. I don't think it's a trap, although it might not yet be good enough for your project.

@mudi2000a

10 күн бұрын

They have been telling this to us under various names for at least 30 years…

@maphuthumanemasilela8934

9 күн бұрын

Fully agree, I've built a whole document management system using no code (focus on UI is no code but back end is Linux) and it's integrating nicely using no code API connectors.... so yes they shouldn't shoot it down because it didn't work for their particular use case. There is no time for learning how to code now... AI is taking over and people still want to learn how to code....

@CaptRespect

7 күн бұрын

It will never be the future of development. Companies have been trying to sell this kind of thing forever with it never really working out.

Whatever you do, don't join the apps without code bootcamp!!! Lost money on that one.....

I’m glad you talked about that. What those platforms say about themselves is a wishful thinking or rather straight lying. I’m a developer, and I participated several times extending applications that someone like yourself created with “no code” tools and hit the wall. I can say, it’s always a huge pain for developers and it takes times more time than actually rewriting from scratch. As a developer and a startup partner I continue hoping for some tool that would help building faster, but nothing so far. They all barely maintainable, no proper tools for testing nor debugging, they’re opaque so, they just not working sometimes as expected and you don’t have straightforward way to fix it. Just trying something differently and hoping they would regenerate the app fixed. You will always end up hiring the best developers (expensive) to dig out of that trap 😢

Full disclosure: I work for a large no-code case management platform. The problem with most no-code platforms is they are generating the code on the fly as you are creating things in their app design interface. That is their downfall. What you really need is to capture the users intent into some intermediate format and then generate the application as a whole entity. Then you can do some amazing things. But building and running such a platform is a lot of work which makes it expensive so it is only suitable for large applications with high volumes where you can realize savings. If you are building a POC or kicking around a new app idea - just build it from scratch using the basic building blocks.

Can you show us the features you couldn't create with nocode?

@silentwater79

9 күн бұрын

Anything that needs some customisation or more than basic business logic above stupidly read and write data to a database.

Just because YOU see it as a roadblock doesn't mean it is. It just means that YOU are not a good troubleshooter. I've been using No Code for about a decade without too many problems. And I know a bit of coding, too.

@bitcoinisfreedommoney.fckt2663

Күн бұрын

exactly

Thank you for warning us!!

100% agreed. I started building on bubble, but once i heard about issues with scaling. I backed out right away. Now developing my project with code with the help of AI and no looking back 😎

In fact This should be TRENDING!............. Regardless of how simple your aplication is eventually you will need use custom things if the platform is growing and theres need of specific features

If something is worth doing… Currently writing my first iOS app with SwiftUI and SwiftData. It’s going well. And coding is fun! It’s problem solving and creativity. Yes, there are frustrations along the way, but there are also highs when something works as expected. If my app works as intended, I’ll have years of development to do to add extra features. Hoping it will turn into a career by itself. We’ll see. But in the meantime, thoroughly enjoying the process. No code? No thanks!

The main problem with these platforms is that the management only see the benefits. No dev's needed, everyone can build apps, we can reduce costs n the development departments, ... And as a Dev or a Team Lead of dev's you try to explain, that this won't work, but the only answer you will get is "I saw a demo on the website and it works perfectly fine!" All these demos don't showto the real world. In real life you don't have perfect data, perfect user, perfect whatever. Too late to show it to my former boss, but still useful for the future.

I have never had practical experience with these issues but ALWAYS preached this to people that would ask me about no code platforms. Btw, you said you're a dev, what kind? Dart is super easy to pickup and flutter can be a joy once you get used to the widget tree. I am faster with coding flutter than i would be in flutter flow (with the + of it being good scalable code)