Make sure to check out Skratch on his channel here! www.youtube.com/@SkratchPlays

@priestguardian2587

Ай бұрын

Skratch is the best RAID CC ever :))))

@RaidShadowRipoff

Ай бұрын

Hi, really actually looking forward to your game . However we need to remember how games like Raid sell casino slot machine style gambling to children. And if Fateless follows a similar model, then you will be no better and are void of any morality. I would like to hope you are all better than that. Here is the reminder how Raid sells gambling to children, disguised as a game. kzread.info/dash/bejne/fGSqwbuzacScdMo.htmlsi=FINYJEqllXMMZukj

Player retention in my experience is based on multiple things but mostly it’s payoffs vs time and co-op playing

Raid keeps me playing because of the community, always having new goals to aim for and continuing to give me that dopamine fix with new heros/gear.

@priestguardian2587

Ай бұрын

Raid has BEST community (Mature) Hands done = no other game comes close

Release with 300 heroes and only release a new one every month or two. Focus on skins for monitization. That would keep me around. Do a hybrid Raid+overwatch/LoL method.

I used to play a game called Evony. Build a castle raise armies etc. after the fifth time some high level player sacked my castle after I had put in all that work developing it I said F T S and cold quite.

The part about PVP that sucks is if you have zero luck in pulling champs it makes for a bad PVP experience.

@priestguardian2587

Ай бұрын

RAID does pvp correctly

One of the main problem of PvP in gatcha is people not put against their own league. You wouldn't find a Jordan in a high school basketball match. Or you wouldn't do golf against Tiger Woods and find it fun. That feeling of never winning unless you have to hunt one man defense is the boring part. When I was doing Arbiter mission and fighting a bunch of Arbiter teams, then you think "if I have to beat people who already got the rewards, then how useful is getting that champion any way". Exemple in TTA, it's easier to stay in gold 1 than in silver 4 because people downgrade to get easier fights and it means that progression is a nightmare. (That and the fact that it's basically just arena x 3)

Keep this format up boys ... this will bring the community you want to build coming back more if you can truly convince them that your listening to them. Balancing Champs - Make sure there are more than just a handful of champs that can complete content Social Experience and Endgame - Please don't bottle neck content through a grinding mechanic Forced Game Modes - No. No. No. Especially if your financial model depends on players buying anything that boosts stats or gives them a noticeable advantage over non spending players Gatekeeping rewards - don't make the best gear 100% locked to being in the top 5 or 10 or if you do, also have an option that that gear is obtainable at least over time ... kind of like If you place top 10 you get this piece of gear now BUT if you complete X number of battles/mission, the player can still get that piece of gear Obsolete/Low Value Champions - I think a really good fix for this is to either make a "trade-in" (like turning them into tokens to purchase higher value champions) mechanic that would allow players to obtain better champions or use a balance system that improves on champions by morphing them into a newer, better version with newer, more relevant kits for new content

Social experience is everything in a game...connection and friendship will keep players playing your game

I love the PvP mode Simon spoke about - I've played a game with a mode like that and it was AMAZING. And I hate PvP but I still loved that

How about tag team dungeons? You could have you progress the dungeons with an other player or a bigger team in your clan. You could add restrictions or stipulations like you can only use a certain faction or rank of champ (so all Epics from Orcs in for example). You'd have to somehow increase the difficulty of those dungeons in team mode to keep interesting.

Great session with Skratch! You hit a lot of good points. Out of all of the game modes in RAID SL, I literally hate 3v3 arena! I was ill and had a lot of difficulty occurring in my life about two years ago and I was in Silver ll, so I was forced to stop playing for a while because of my health issues at the time. When I was able to get back into playing, I was able to get back to Gold V in classic arena but I couldn’t get past Silver ll in tag team arena. When I came back it was like I was facing Gold V and Platinum level defenses and now there’s the Taras, Marichka, Siphi, Rotos, Double Yumeko, Sun Wu Kong, Armanz, etc and then the Mythicals are all in defense the maybe I could beat if I could just use whatever champions I needed to use but I can’t because the game mode is not set that way. I actually struggle against teams that are really strong and on the different level as far as power: yet they are in Silver ll defense. Please do something better with your game!

love this format, can listen for hours

I loved this conversation with Skratch! I agree with him on how much it will add to the game to have friendly pvp fights. We would love battling our clanmate and for the CCs to have tournaments. I would like it if each clan had a CVC Boss that the whole clan can attack and whichever clan gets the most points attacking wins some kind of reward and gets points added to their score. But i disagree on tying missions etc to pvp in a way that requires you to achieve certain level. So many people in RSL hate 3v3 so i hope you dont have anything like that as a daily quest. It takes way too much time to do even the 5 tokens. You guys already know what the community likes and dislikes about these games so stay open to listen to player and CC feedback about your game.

I love going through games with stories and not just farming. Something I would love, is if you could have a quest to earn really good heroes every 3 or 4 months. The Star Wars game I used to play about a decade ago, when I first saw Darth Microtransaction, had ways of getting really good heroes like that.

I'm not the craziest on PVP but I don't mind some elements of it, as long as it doesn't mess too much with the PVE experience.

Releasing the game with a ton of heroes right off the bat sounds great in theory. The only thing that concerns me is how difficult character balancing would be with a starting roster that big. Nothing feels worse than a game with absolutely OP units. That’s why I just quite my main gatcha.

Chosen mentioned the Tag Team Arena mission Get Gold 1 and possibly making it "Get 100 wins" - if Raid made the ability to upgrade the rewards bars from bronze to silver to gold - then you could do something like "Get 1000 TT Arena Gold Bars" which might equate to 100 TT Arena Gold Wins or 1000 TT Arena Silver wins with a 10 to 1 Silver bar to gold bar upgrade ratio. It would also break an age old complaint in Raid with better rewards being stuck behind the Bronze/Silver/Gold TT Arena instead of how much effort you're willing to spend for the reward

A gauntlet type pvp game mode would be interesting. You get x amount of shards and you have to put together 1-3 arena teams only using the units you get from those. For example if it would be in Raid you get like 200 primal, 200 void, 200 ancient and 20 sacred shards (200 and 20 being the hard pity for legendary/mythical). You could have normal and premium entry tickets for that mode. The normal is free but you can't keep the units you pull. The premium costs money but you can keep the units (or choose some to keep). The units come maxed out for this mode with gear on them (you could choose what set you put on them). This mode could be a non-P2W pvp mode based more on luck that you can still monetize with the premium ticket. There could be a new draft every week/month.

Playeroptions is what keeps me around, let me do what I wanna do and give multiple options doing it. If then the reward is good compared to time investment I am in. Co-op and other community events are also a big plus in my opinion which raid at the moment doesn't really have I would say.

Naruto online has this "worlboss" feature. Where the nine Tail appears for certain amount of time appearse and everyone can try to kill him. After three or so attemps you get stuff according your Achiement. Even a Banner on your avatar that will show till the next fight. Also the clan gets rewards. According to the overall achievements of the individual clanmembers. So it is good for oneself, but also for the clan.

How close are we on the roadmap to the title reveal? Just tell us so you don't have to worry about letting it slip in the podcast. :)

For me it is the interaction with other players that keep me engaged. Having live chat rooms from the game itself that allow you to communicate even when you're offline has a profound impact on user experience, and this is despite the existence of discord. Also co-operative play is quite integral for player retention. World events, actual clan vs clan, co-op boss fights are just some examples. Also one way to boost the player's sense of worth in terms of their accounts, is to have some kind of trading system. It doesnt have to be champion/hero trades, but even just gear trades where people can put items up for sale in exchange of ingame currency, or trade it with other players that can be capped to once only per week/month or what have you. This encourages players to grind for gear, but also gives them alternative ways to acquire resources aside from the usual avenues which will help supplement their progress thereby improving player rentention and engagement.

Player retention comes from goals, making content like summoners war hydra, makes people wanna build a 15 man team to conquer a boss, amazing goals for pve players. PVP - Hitting specific goals could give you titles under your name, achieving for example 400spd in raid you could get a golden title under your name 'Speed Demon' and it shows under your name when doing live arena to show off. Arena should aways be about flexing, cosmetics for finishing TOP 100 skin only avaliable for finishing at the top.

What people doesn't like isn't PvP, it's PvP meta. Having the constant feeling of not really having a chance because you don't have the crazy one. When the win rate is low... People don't get engaged in that game mode.

29:40 A cool addition to raid would be when you click on you’re profile you can see that persons arena/3v3 arena defense and their highest rank in all 3 arenas and maybe even more stats that raid dosent show. For example # of runs in a certain dungeon that person has completed. People love showing off cosmetics and stats.

27:00 similiar mode helping you in same mode would have been liek the DT sets helping you beat they tower or DT 'free' champs helping too .... which raid didnt give a crap about

I enjoy regular arena the most in raid bc 1) there is a bit of a grind and challenge to get to Gold V and 2) once you hit that sweet spot it basically becomes pve as long as you are remotely active. You can put as tough or as weak of a defense up and observe who attacked it. And there is a wide range of defenses to attack. If you want to challenge yourself you can go against a team that has 50% more power than you but you believe your strategy will be able to outmaneuver. In theory Tag is fine. Over time I've enjoyed building 3 different styles of teams for my offense and defense (even if I don't really feel the game rewards me for doing so). In particular building teams around specific champs like Tormin and Armanz has been pretty fun for me. The insane grind to get to Gold I for Ramantu really does make me despise the mode regardless, though. Especially since as I understand that grind doesn't gets rewarded like in regular arena. You still have to put in your best defense all week and be exceptionally selective in your fights to avoid dropping or to get back there once a month for the Sacred shard.

Good PvP games are like the Mortal kombat or Street Fighter where ability is more important that having pulled the 1 OP destroy everything champion.

I agree that you can't have one character that just dominates all content and it is good to have the need to swap characters out. The flip side, and where you often get so many very similar characters in these games, is that in a hero collector it always comes down to the people that can't get characters. You have to be able to do the content with what you have and if you hit a wall for long enough people might just quit. I'll say this every time PvP comes up just to help keep it in mind. There is nothing you can do that will have me like PvP. I've been a gamer since Pac-man. I've never, in any game, liked PvP. I do the minimum I have to in Raid. Tag Team I'm often starting and immediately quitting just so I can get my 5 in for the day. Live Arena is boring. And the moment I have a full Great Hall I'll quit in 5 a day like TT. I think you should have PvP for those that like it, but please leave those of us that don't out of it. This seems to be a concept that many PvP players don't understand. I don't know the number of times I've heard "You just haven't played good PvP". I've played a lot of PvP in the past, because some of my friends like it. I've quit every time and I just don't any more. There is no good PvP. That is an oxymoron for some of us. And as it applies to CvC like things I'm in a clan of only 10 active players. I don't want to move because the selling point of this clan is that we work to similar goals and otherwise just leave each other alone. We all play on our schedule and just want the rewards. We will never get in Hydra CvC and would never win if we did. When all of us were playing Eternal Evolution I joined a similar HH guild where we just did our own thing. It isn't that I hate people, I just don't have the time for them outside of my friends and they will never touch a gacha game anymore. I'll also give one frustration about Raid that just came up again. Fear/True Fear is supposed to be a 50% chance to activate. When it is on the enemy it seems more like 30% and when it is on my characters it is more like 90%. The number of times it activates on my characters is more than 50% of the time. The number of times games have seen their RNG as the least focus when it affects the most important parts of the game. Please be sure you are using a good algorithm for your random number generator.

In these games, if there's no PvP, then you need constant new PvE because people will beat everything quickly and get bored. In a lot of games, PvP is the thing you can always progress when PvE is maxed.

Word

If done right, you can weave PvP into general content. So long as it is not punitive or a barrier to success (where victory is not required to progress), it can be a fun aspect of any game. But forcing people to engage in PvP wins to progress is where non-PvPers get anxious. WoW did this with some of its holiday achievements, and it was miserable. But the Great Hall in Raid was okay (if way too convoluted) because arena was actually fun. If you strategised well, you could reach Gold V and stay there. You weren't required to constantly win. Even a 60-80% win rate was good enough to get a decent amount of medals each week.

I tried some of the new gatcha games (Dragon Heir, Watchers of Realms, AFK Journey) but i stopped playing them after a couple of weeks/months when i unlocked most of the daily grind. If you want players to stick for more time please give us methods to save on playtime. Please give us plenty of auto/quick battles or other time saving methods. If you want to lure in people who already play similar games and are already invested in those you have to make them feel like you respect their time.

Aztec Gods yes especially God of war Huitzilopochtli look into that it’s awesome

Interesting

A portion of player retention that I feel gets overlooked too often is champion balance. As soon as someone pulls a crappy Void legendary (RAID example) after months of saving...there is a good chance of a rage quit moment, makes the player re-evaluate why they are wasting their time... I believe in difficulty and rarity...but not unnecessary frustration.

Scratch...buddy....I. hate. Pvp. I will be pissed if I'm forced to play it. I agree with HH, WOW doesn't force you to play it. I hate the fact that the only way to grow my great hall is to do pvp. Which is why my hall is sorely lacking, and this affects my progress. 😡

24:32 the issue with raid isnt the rank but the limitation tehy put into it

I think a game should be released with 150 -200 heros. 10-20% legendary-20-30% epic - 50%-60% Rare, common & uncommon

So I was thinking that if you guys decide to do a fusion type thing like raid does then I’d say do a thing where you introduce the character and recommend areas of the game and gear and in the fusion have events that revolve around the areas/gear that the champ will be used and whilst having to do a dungeon diver type event instead of just farming the stage needlessly you could set a number a certain gear type we have to collect to get some part of the fusion. Idk maybe I’m chatting bs

Look up Summoners war. They have the world boss for server. And they have a BUNCH of content to keep you busy.

Having one fight a week that requires you to manual 30-60 min might be viable. But not having to do it 3 times a week because it can easily become chore. Rewards also have to mirror the effort.

200-300 at launch and consistant additions is necessary in a collector

wow..did it right...there was pve gear rewards sets and pvp gear rewards sets...so when you played more pve content ( raids) you got a goal to get the best pve sets....and the same for pvp..if you farmed the various pvp modes you got the best pvp sets...they were not combined.....the gold 1 arena mission is something many of us are stucks since game started and no the end goal is not worth the frustration to even pass it.

i like tag teams as it giv a bit more chance to win in deluting the power some... for the new player BUT the big problem is the reward are so bad.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I actually enjoy Tag Arena. My progression there isn’t tied to power anywhere else in the game (unless you’re specifically talking about acquiring Ramantu) I can be perfectly content to compete at my own level and not feel like I’m missing out on anything. In Classic arena, if you’re not in gold 4 or 5 you don’t get as many GH medals per win and you don’t get the 20-22% bonus stats *EVERYWHERE ELSE* in the game. It makes me feel like I need to be there. So on an account that’s 4 months old, I’m hitting the refresh every 15 minutes and looking for 1 man defenses. It’s not a compelling pvp experience, it’s a chore. If progress in Classic arena wasn’t tied to account power, I’d be perfectly content to be in bronze 3 or wherever I would land naturally.

@Valentin_Teslov

Ай бұрын

you are right, you have a super unpopular opinion. The enemies you face should 100% be tied to your player power. Why do I have to face 14M player power accounts in tag team arena? I stand no chance, I am a new-ish player. In classic it's pretty manageable because I face people with similar gearscore levels.

@TheAdventuresOfAdam

Ай бұрын

@@Valentin_Teslov you’ve completely misread and misunderstood my comment. I’m saying the amount I progress in tag arena doesn’t give me measurable, tangible power elsewhere in the game. The stats of my champions aren’t being inflated when I rank up. My stats don’t increase from farming wins. I can just play it and be perfectly content to play against others at my level without feeling that I need to be in gold the way you do in Classic arena.

wartune had world boss and he was with infinate HP the rewards was first on glory first place best dmg dealer player name top 10 player name then . Betweeen this and this dmg u get this reward between this and this this reward its insane mode wich have alot of potential.

@styraxxthegeniusstyraxxthe6709

Ай бұрын

top 3 also get a statue on the starter screen of the game either in pvp or pve then people have more drive to push be the best

Ok, sorry for so many comments But tag arena in raid is dumb, like your said, but there's games were there's better, i have play games were you have 3 teams but your first team if that team is the winner continue for the second battle (offense or defense) and when you team dies your use the next one Also there's a game a lot time ago were you have your firs team and you choose a backup of characters and when one of your character dies you can choose one of those characters to replace the dead one

i still cannot bleieve raid does NOT have pvp with your friends

campain should reset once in a while and get your rewards again.... more team play more social , some sort of place to practice and try test build.. whit out wasting resource

Hydra wouldn't be too long if you could save the battle progress and resume when you have more time

Guys, Let us know in advance if you will do the same as Raid Shadow Legends, forcing people to struggle in pvp so that they can enjoy pve. If so, I will thank you for the game and I won't even download it, it's enough for me that in Raid Shadow Legends I can't play on max level because I dont give a damn about pvp and my Great Hall bonuses are non existent.

the game need a speed mutiplyer once you have reach a certain lvl... like x5 x10 x20.... so we dont have to spend 1h on the boss fight

It's hard to have any meaningful conversation about player versus player in games like gacha games where your wallet more or less dictates your power level. I know there's a slew of F2P players that have reached all kinds of high ranking spots in games like raid, but having 4 or 5 of these players in a pool of millions to tens of millions, is essentially a pointless data point. Once layers of RNG power creep start to crop up, champion and gear empowerment, ascending, blessings, mythical gear, etc. That gap starts to exponentially get bigger. This is why PvP has always been about skill, and whatever current meta is floating about. Your wallet has no bearing on your performance. I realize that your wallet isn't going to win the game for you, but it's disingenuous to act like skill and game knowledge is the determining factor when in comes to PvP in gacha games. You want a fix for that? Remove every single power bonus but gear, ascensions, and masteries. This would give the absolute closest "stat" parity between spenders and non-spenders. Make PvP purely skill based, like it more or less has been in the entire history of competitive gaming. Other then that, I feel like discussing PvP is entirely pointless. The only demographic for any competitive PvP play in gachas are massive spenders that are obsessed with the game. Chosen made a good point about the artificial "wall" that gets created when a power boost, like a champ or gear, is placed behind a ranking. This is very much a thing. In fact this very thing happened in WoW Arena. Once you hit the 2200+ arena brackets, you were able to purchase a new set of PvP gear that had higher stats than the previous set. This was entirely locked behind a rating ceiling. So if you did not jump on and hit that rating and grab your gear as soon as possible, you had a noticeably more difficult time breaking that barrier into the 2200's. Where skill becomes more important, equally skilled teams would then be decided by who had higher stats.

I think isn't only how much champions do you have also the quality If you have 50 champion and 20 are commons that don't do anything for your account or worse 20 champions do the same were none is better or different than the other Also don't make commons only for then to be chicken, they should have a important mode were you can only use them, imagine something like faction war but only with commons and uncommons

Having PvP tied to PvE rewards or vis versa is what I don't like. One feature I wish some of these games would have is literal raids. Imagine a mode in RSL where you and say 3 others fight a boss together at the same time. 16 champions on the field and the boss with his trash. Time based on turn meter like normal but some buffs can be raid wide.

Success isn't going to be about how many champions are in the game. You can have 20 champions and still have a good game. You just need to balance it correctly. A game with only 20 champions shouldn't have more than one Legendary. That Legendary should be about as difficult to attain as a RSL Mythical. It should be so difficult to obtain that people don't even seek it out. Summons are great for Content Creator Videos and for sales in the shop but they aren't necessarily great for a Hero Collector game. Slowing down the pace that players can attain every champion in the game is an extremely important Key ingredient to increasing the longevity of the game. It is also extremely important to ensure that the game is playable with the bare minimum champions in the game. I should be able to defeat all content with Uncommon champions. Rares, Epics, Legendaries, etc.. should not activate God Mode. Their stats and abilities should be ever so slightly increased to be better than the teirs beneath them. I would devise a system similar to as follows: Uncommon: A1 Ability Only. Common: A1 & A2 Abilities. Rare: A1 & A2 Abilities with a Passive. Epic: A1, A2, & A3 Abilities with a Passive. Legendary: A1, A2, & A3 Abilities with a Passive & an Aura. PvP is for Narcissists. We have fun proving to everyone else how much better we are at almost everything. We are a minority. Most people either don't have the skill to compete with a narcissist or they don't care enough about proving they are better.

@bryangirod9173

Ай бұрын

Pvp is all about the spenders.

My subjective opinions : What keeps me play longturn - super rare drops for legendary things (i wanna have feeling that i drop something special and i work hard for it and i deserve it because i invest more effort into game that other players). Something that i can work on all my lifetime in game - great hall bonuses, maybe unlimited player level? Paragons in diablo 3 is good example. Be able to say look, i have played more than you so i have something that you dont have. Requires anti-autoclikers tool, sadly. Rewarding pvp and clan pvp - Best example is summoners war for me. I also like your normalized draft pvp, saw something like that in Monster legends game. For me pve serve pvp. Focusing on pve you have to bring new challanges all the time, what leads into infinite powercreep - ruining pvp as we can see in Raid. Pls dont make absurd amout of gear sets and heroes, for me is Fine to release 2 champs of each rarity per month... But thats maybe just me

26:39 waifus?

COsmetics= easy money

don`t implement energy in your game! Find another way to monetize your game! SAY NO TO ENERGY!

What you dont want in pvp is to be demolished constantly by people who can afford to pay for all the best champs. There has to be really good matching or leagues (epic only or mythical only) or some other features to avoid this. I spend some but I dont do Raid pvp because of this. Just not enjoyable.

I hate pvp, is the least enjoy part for me, i play because i have to, because there's a lot rewards behind that mode Most of the time i quit in those games

Hey Simon, i'm a new cc for Raid Shadow Legends with only 18 sub, and i have another channel that covers horror games and reactions with almost 1k subs, but that's not the point. I have over 30 years of experience in games so i could give you some good tips to keep players engaged with the game right from the start. So if you do another one of this videos where you invite people i would be glad to join and i will make a list with some great ideas to make your game even better. Just so you know i'm serious i will give you a free one. Customised skills rather then fixed skills, and this is just the beggining of the idea.

Please make your game so that players can’t be constantly ripped off like in Raid. It shouldn’t be possible to save your summons up for months. Or spend a bunch of money only to be disappointed. Just opened 81 void shards I had saved up for about 5 months during the 2x. And got one new epic. The rest were duplicate epics and rares. It shouldn’t be possible to grind and save supporting their game for so long. Only to be slapped in the face by greed.

World boss is a great idea. Also, make the initial progression easier so people get hooked, then the next 11-15 level dungeon harder. And please dont make bad decision for progressing player like raid did, instant artifacts upgrade only available for lvl 40 player. What a joke!

Without even watching the video i will give my opinion You need to find the way for game to feel fresh over and over... for example, one of most annoying things in raidSL is that by the time you get some of interesting champions, epics for example, you have no use of them at all, being completly obsolete and outscaled by best champs you got in your roaster... so then, even though you have a feel to build them up and try them up in different content, you have no real need or sense of accomplishment after you do... so, content similar to cursed city is really nice, buy i must say, not executed properly... maybe you can do something lile, mini- campaign mode that could be runned over and over again.. for example, when player gets few new champs, he can play that mode with that new team, while leveling up champs and getting rewards needed to build those champions up , and getting the feel of playing game from the start but with different champions.. of course, it would have to have limitations in terms of rarity and level of champs, so people can't abuse it just in order to get rewards fast... something like, on starting mini- campaign, you can choose champions you want to play with( regulated by conditions mentioned before), and you can add only champions that you aquired after you started to play mini- campaign... and with a limit of maybe once per month... That's one of ideas crossing my mind as a result of thinking nimerous times, how amazing it would be to experience those first 2 weeks of playing game again.. but this way there is no need to open new account and waste tons of time... anyway, i really hope someone reads this and best of luck ❤😊

Tta is completely useless… i dont want to put my 12 best Champions, which im using everywhere into stoneskin… a waste

people HATE that raid does it but imo its genius that they tie PVP with things like great hall, live with bonuses for arena etc

Absolutely lost me at "force players to...". I don't play a game to be forced to do ANYTHING. If I want to experience all that a game has to offer, I will find a way to do it. If a game FORCES me to do ANYTHING, I lose everything that makes me a customer and I become a reluctant "participant" in someone's need to have ALL of their content played. I thought this was going to be about the consumer, not the devs. If it goes this way, I'm out. Just like I dropped Blizzard.

Need around 150/200 heroes, raid is too diluted. Heroes are not unique anymore...Mythicals actually made it way more interesting as theyre more unique.

I deleted Raid today due to the awakening paywall. I’ll other content you could grind through. Raids new content isn’t f2p friendly. I’m looking for the next big thing, hopefully Fateless is getting close. ; )

@Dagon-op6xe

Ай бұрын

Correction “All other content”. For some reason Edit isn’t working. lol

We'll make our bacon so tasty the vegans will change their minds, especially if we force them to! Just skip pvp and add skins

balanced pvp is what would keep peopel playing even if they hit a wall

Summoners War isn't perfect, but in recent years they did figure out how to drip feed new content with wide variety. Its not all great, but its a template that I very much think could succeed in terms of making F2P and Pay2Win mesh together well. Best feature was adding dungeons for improving really old, low rarity monsters into good monsters.