Addendum: Rule 41F was finalized in 2016, so not quite a decade. Edit: Single Shot trusts. I see the utility here of being able to rapidly transfer the trust thats about it.

@spikymikie

Ай бұрын

So I have a very specific question, not really related to the NFA Trust issue, but to suppressor manufacture. If I want to start a business manufacturing suppressors, for resale, what form or forms do I have to file? The ATF website is not real clear on this (Intentionally?). Best I can tell, its a form 7. But its just not that clear. And as you know, getting somebody on the phone at the ATF takes an act of congress (Irony). I know its a form 1 if I was making one for myself. But the doing it as a business part is not clear. Thank you for what you do, BTW.

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

@@spikymikieyes , an ATF form 7 but only after you form an LLC. Once you have both of those things in place you can apply for your SOT.

@spikymikie

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channel Thank You. Ill update you when the LLC is completed. I think you'll like the name.

@Woodoutdoor

Ай бұрын

Single shot trust Does not seem to be bad option, But still need to look into the details on how to add trustees.

@phillipk1258

Ай бұрын

Great video, very helpful! Are suppressor wait times today still consistently/predictably sitting at or around 7-30 days? (Assuming I did everything right on my end)

As someone who files under a trust, I absolutely agree with you. The only benefit for me is having my wife and kids being able to use my items, other than that it’s over rated. Good luck with you audit and fuck the ATF.

@newbievonnewberson7390

Ай бұрын

So...useless except for the reason most people use them. Got it.

@geodkyt

Ай бұрын

​@@newbievonnewberson7390There was a fairly sizeable jump in the number of NFA trust transfers starting about 20 years ago, once the internet made it common knowledge that an NFA trust bypassed the (unstatutory, unconstitutional, and now defunct) CLEO signature requirement, allowing people to use the trust process to get around an anti-NFA local CLEO. The explosion in trust filings are *why* ATF first dropped the CLEO signature requirement, and then issued the rule that every trustee has to submit paperwork for every new trust acquisition. With those two changes to the regulations ATF issued, the use of a trust to "make transfers easier" don't make sense anymore. But that doesn't change the fact that a whole butt-ton of folks got trusts *solely* to bypass recalcitrant CLEOs who wouldn't sign off for *any* transfers that wasn't one of their friends.

@ericwagstaff2227

Ай бұрын

@@newbievonnewberson7390 Their useful as any "Trust" would be, asset segregation to protect them and granting access to members of the trust. But NFA trusts, before 2016 were a workaround to the LEO sign off issue when filing as individual. After 2016, that became a non-issue and the ATF made adding items to NFA trust more complicated so that ended the workaround. I would say the vast major of people who have SBRs and cans aren't worth the time in setting up a trust. Lastly, some of these $100 one size fit all NFA trust sold online may not be completely legal in your state if it comes under scrutiny, since trusts have to conform to your state laws. So to make sure it's done right you should seek a trust lawyer in your state which is going to cost you way more then $100.

They're not. NFA Trusts provide a legal framework to protect your property from civil asset forfeitures.

@Hornet135

Ай бұрын

I think you’re talking about times when you should have used the silencer.

@Hey_you_______x

Ай бұрын

No he's spot on.

@elzippo488

Ай бұрын

@@Hey_you_______x No. He blows his theory and Title of Video out of the water at 9:24 LOL! "If you've got a single $500 can or a couple $500 cans, or a few $1000 can, who the heck cares"??? "It's not really that important" ??? REALY? You do you OK? I will always use a Trust.

@billdberger7407

Ай бұрын

Nonsense, police do CAF on lawful business in good standing all the time. Some of these companies have staff attorneys and they still do it them with impunity. They will charge your property with a crime in a civil proceeding and you WILL have to pay to get it back. Think for a second about who you're dealing with here, a piece of paper and an etching will not stop these people. The whole damn concept of civil asset forfeiture needs to be criminalized.

@wiryone1

Ай бұрын

It’s more a question of the value of what your protecting. Do you really need to go belt and suspenders on a 500-1000 product that is replaceable? A 25K machine gun on the other hand…. Yeah.

The trust is NOT about delivery time. They're about ownership and use. Item to trust, add members as necessary

@OldSolidSnake

Ай бұрын

I have items I filed individually, and anyone that uses them, is ok as long as I'm physically there with them..

@OldSolidSnake

Ай бұрын

@First_name_youtube_doesnt_like they are locked in a safe and na, they can't shoot a suppressor lol. If they need a gun, my wife has access to one...

@OldSolidSnake

Ай бұрын

@First_name_youtube_doesnt_like true. However, in an emergency, I'll be the one to do it, and they're half gone anyway lol

To my knowledge, trusts are still greatly beneficial for allowing other authorized parties legal use of of assets without the main owner having to be present, also automatic transfer of assets if the main owner is killed, or declared unfit to own the assets so they don't go forfeit. There are still good reasons to get a trust, back in the day it was a way around a LEO signature, but 41F killed that.

The only reason I went the "trust" route, was for my sons to take them to the range without me. There is no other benefit. My last 2 cans took 370 days to get approved - currently at 271 on my latest, fastest was 280 days. I find this unacceptable.

@LRRPFco52

Ай бұрын

The existence of the ATF is unacceptable...a pungent stench to the US.

@woodrowcall3158

Ай бұрын

I find the tax itself unacceptable.

@LRRPFco52

Ай бұрын

@@woodrowcall3158 Can you see my comment? I know I left one about the ATF.

@mattjackson6602

Ай бұрын

It’s crazy right now. I got one back in 3 days last month… I have another one I bought in November that I’m still waiting on. 😂 make it make sense!!!!

@coopja3330

19 күн бұрын

Mines took 2 years

Somehow I don't trust the local pigs or the fedboys to lock my hypothetical wife in a cage while I spend $100,000 on a legal defense arguing that her marital property rights allowed her to possess not just own an NFA item.

I went with a trust because when I started the whole NFA thing, that was basically the only way to do it. That being said, today I bought a suppressor and switched to individual. I am currently waiting on the last suppressor I purchased through my trust, so I will probably get the approval for the latest one before the previous one. Our government makes no sense. I hate the hoops we have to jump through for rights that are not supposed to be infringed upon.

A trust seems like a great way to avoid bureaucratic complications when the day inevitably comes that the owner of an NFA item shuffles off the mortal coil. I'm sure the government would just love any excuse to seize that gun if every T isn't crossed in the inheritance transfer.

What if one is declared insane, red flagged, or becomes a felon

The problem with the "your wife owns your stuff" argument is that ownership is not always the same as posession. I expect with NFA stuff the zero-tolerance ATF will shoot your community property dog on their way to trash your community property house to serve a warrant they haven't gotten with bodycams they aren't wearing while walking over a constitution that they don't abide, much less defend.

I'll note that, back when the ATF had a *useful* NFA FAQ online, it *specifically and explicitly* stated that NFA regsitrations *did not* fall under "marital property" rules with regard to unsupervised possession - nor could you file a "non-trust" registration as a couple. The only two options were individual registration or corporate registrations. I have *not* seen ATF promulgate any rules that say that an individual regisyration by one spouse automatically confers a safe harbor for the other spouse to possess the registered item without the actual registrant being physically present. *Note:* this is entirely different from the inheritance transfer situation, where the rules have always been that lawful ownership and (provided the heir wasn't legally prohibited from possession) possession automatically transferred by law, with the Form 5 following up to update the registration to the heir.

@fairlylocal607

Ай бұрын

Plus there have been several high profile examples of spouses using NFA items in self defense situations and then found themselves charged with a crime after the fact. May or may not get the charges dropped at a later time, but the process is the punishment.

The ATF approval and tax for suppressors needs to repealed. Not only are they, in my opinion, unconstitutional but greatly extend the wait time in obtaining them. I setup a NFA trust several years ago for my immediate family for the purpose of obtaining a suppressor. The suppressor was approved. Now 9 months ago I applied to have another suppressor added to this trust and it is in the “delayed” status because of one of my family members. There is absolutely nothing that has changed in the trustee’s status that warrants this. The whole purpose of establishing a trust is that I am up in years and want to make the transfer of these items as simple as possible.

In my opinion the greatest benefit of the NFA trust is to allow family members as trustees to legally possess the NFA items absence of a single owner.

Dude that is the steepest set of stair I have ever seen.

I have to disagree with you. I’ve had a family gun trust for 10 years. I agree those one shot gun trust are basically worthless. The three reason I got a gun trust is for my son, he is a beneficiary and co trustee. So no form 5 for him when I die. Also if I add a new person to the trust the new person doesn’t have to any ATF background check, paperwork, finger prints, or photos for existing NFA items in the trust. The new person only has to do the paperwork if a new NFA item is added to the trust after the new person is added. Plus my son will be able to add people to the trust after I’m gone and build it for his family. Another reason, all my co-trustees can use all the weapons in my trust without me being with them. My trust will evolve and grow for many generations to come.

Wait times are randomly picked out as short for a few lucky people, it is still not the norm. I have two suppressors already and the other two I just got in filed as individual are going on two months now. Total bs

Currently waiting for ATF approval on my first can. I went with a single shot trust through a silencershop kiosk at one of my local FFL. It was easy but probably just file individual next time for a more speedy process. Great video

The only reason I care about an NFA Trust is so my wife can have complete access, have them legally when I die to divest or pass to my adult children. If not for that, I could give a flying F.

@donperrignon

Ай бұрын

This is basically it for me

So if I do a personal purchase (no trust), can my children take it on a hunt if I'm not there? Or how about a close friend? Real question, not trolling. My understanding is if someone wanted to borrow my can, I can add them to the trust and they are legal to use it without me being present. Even if I later remove them after hunting season. Is that a misunderstanding?

I have to repecfully disagree with you. Even In this video you seem to contradict yourself. You go through all the reasons why filing as and individual is bassically the same as a trust, form 5 upon death for example. Ok fair enough, but then you go into the flexibility of a trust and how it can do things filing as an individual can't. Isn't that flexibility enough to say trusts are worth it? I went with a trust and have no regrets. Estate planning is easier. You said you don't care what happens when your dead, fair enough, but I actually do care about helping my kids and making that crazy time a little more steamlined. My wife can use my guns, which I've got to be blatently honest, I don't believe you when you said your spouses could be in possession without you around if filed as an individual in your name. Your the only person I've ever heard say that. And I certainly haven't seen official ATF documentation saying that. I don't know maybe it's out there. I would rather not risk it if she actually had to use it in self defense. My kids can also use my NFA items. There are only two upsides with filing as an individual. You don't have to set up a trust (which is really easy) and the CURRENT short wait times. Wait times are fickle. They go up and down all the time. Who says wait times wont drop for trusts soon? Which by the way they have been dropping. Or that individual wait times wont increase? There is no garentee when it comes to the ATF especially with the wait times.

@calebshipley4448

Ай бұрын

There is actually a documented case of a wife getting in her husband's truck with a suppressor in it that she didn't know was in there. She get in a wreck a few miles from home. In the process of cleaning the truck out before it got towed, the rifle with the suppressor on it was seen by police. Took tens of thousands of dollars, but I THINK they finally beat the charges. It isn't worth it. If you have a spouse, get a trust.

I just bought a thing from Griffin. It took a week and a half to get everything set up through Capitol, finished and submitted Form 4 Tuesday evening, got approval this morning, barely over a business day later. I did not use a trust and glad I didn’t.

Thanks for clearing that up.

RE: XS Sights - why don't they pre-drill the roll-pin hole in the J-Frame big dot and standard dot sights? Now I have to find a gunsmith.

Thanks for all of the great information! Another great video!!!

Silencer Central has decent prices, and most of all, the process is crazy easy and the trust is free. So....easy decision.

So if trust are still taking a year for approvals, buy as an individual then transfer to your trust later. Yea I know you are paying twice but if you want it now so you can use it and you are having to wait a year like I just did, there is also a cost of waiting too. The other question is how long is the wait for the second purchase under a trust if nothing changes on the trust? Is it another almost year wait? Or does the approval happen at the speed of an individual purchaser for an additional purchase?

What about living in a state that decides to ban NFA items. Almost all bans come with a grandfathering clause to avoid a 'takings' and the state needing to buy all the items they are banning. If you die the items remain in the trust and the people already in the trust get that grandfathering. And depending on how they write the ban it may be still possible to add people to the trust thus continuing to work around the ban in the future.

I just began the process for my first can a week ago as an individual. I'm still waiting for permission from the Crown.

So what happens to my family members in the untimely event of my demise? Who can "possess" my items if they are not listed in a trust?

The whole ATF is useless. It follows that everything they do is useless.

Some good points. I went with one for a couple reasons. One my now adult children do like to use them and second due to an unfortunate health issue I will probably become disabled in a few years (hopefully no nursing home though).

Has anyone mentioned avoiding probate?

On the family members taking possession of nfa items after my death with a forum 5. Do they pay a $200 dollar tax per item ? Thank you sir. Mark

The only people I trust is my Family to give to grandbabies. Mine sunk n boating accident so feel really bad about it...

If you have XS sights, you need more guns.

@BlueMarten

Ай бұрын

- What you did there, I see it. 😂

@Morinehtur

Ай бұрын

Nice 👍

Thank you, VSO GC, for clueing me in with that earlier video on having an NFA trust or going solo. Saved some money, and A LOT! of wait time, yay! #RepealTheNFA #RepealTheGCA #NationalCarry

Well that’s just like, your opinion, man. And it’s wrong. 😂

Unless you are a loner, have no friends or family ....get a trust, less headaches in the long run.

The NFA Trust allows my wife and son to use my NFA items without me there. It allows my wife and son to keep a silencer on their bedside pistols,and I don't have to keep them locked in a Vault when I leave the house.

Got my individual tax stamp approved in 48 hours.

This is a debate that isn't really necessary. This video was more about calling this commenter out than it was about being beneficial to the community. Here's a suggestion for everyone. Since wait times for individuals is currently so short, purchase and file individually. Acquire as many items as you desire. When you reach a point where you want others to be able to utilize the items without your presence then transfer all items to a NFA trust with those individuals as trustees. Rinse and repeat as deemed appropriate by YOU, the individual with factors generally unique to YOU. This minimizes the hassle of adding items to trusts. If you never intend to let an individual use one of your items without you being present then your need for a trust is minimal, if it even exists.

Not true on a one shot trust. The trust is on the one can. It is based on an individual can.

This was explained to me exactly like this by my ffl , so I bought my last hush can as individual And took it home in 6- days

I was hoping you would discuss possession without a trust as far as having one in a home with people that are NOT your wife. Family members, roommates, girlfriends, etc. How does THAT work? If you leave the house, are your roommates breaking the law now!? That's what most people want to know.

Curt...can you do a video on who can use the can, beside yourself, via a trust and single ownership, like at the range or on private property owned by the can owner...

Indeed.

What you've said makes sense. None the less its all bullshit and people need to stop complying and appeasing altogether.

The way I see it with such short wait times filing individual ( such as me last month with a 1 day approval ) it’s like paying $200 to not have to wait for a year. As in, later down the road you can place the suppressor into a trust for $200

Lmao, 150 people on a trust. Ol' kurtis is gonna have his hands full.

I view it largely as a means of protecting your NFA items in an age where most states have put red flag laws and the like in place

Living Trust.

A trust for me is an assurance for the low chance of home defense and use of force that a specified SBR and Suppressor be used when I'm not home - that setup must be cleanly sacrificial and above board for my wife. I don't believe marital property is enough...and I'm not willing to gamble on the whims of a DA and police, something that should and can be prepared at this level.

If I get a suppressor I'll get a trust, thatbway if I'm not home and my wife or kids have to use a home defense weapon equipped with a suppressor they can't use that against them

Shame SBR's are not being similarly expedited

@roflchopter11

Ай бұрын

It's my understanding. They are if they are on Form 4s

@kc8omg

Ай бұрын

Form 1 SBR's have been processing in the 1-3 week time range for well over a year at this point, long before the recent Form 4 filing time improvement.

How about SBR’s?

I’d love a video on how cans in Europe are different. Sound, cost, weight etc

a trust is ABSOLUTLY viable. while you may think it's useless - it is 100% the ONLY way i'll *EVER* file. honestly, there is NO reason to not go with a trust...

@ericwagstaff2227

Ай бұрын

For most people it really doesn't make sense anymore since a NFA trust is not a workaround like it was in the past. If your answer is you have other people who want access to those items fine that's a use case, but every time you add something to the trust every person in your trust has to fill out paper work and submit finger print cards that makes your package more complicated and takes way longer to approve. Lastly, unless you have "asset" level items like machine guns worth thousands or tens of thousands you need to protected from any civil actions. No one is coming after your SRB or cans that in a lawsuit there's no big money for those items.

@uncleandy7983

Ай бұрын

@@ericwagstaff2227 That's not true at all. You can add a person to your trust by filling out a form and getting it notarized. There's no reason to muddy the waters by putting them on the trust when you make the original filing.

Good info. I would love to see some info on non NFA “regular gun” trusts. The majority of info out there is just NFA trusts - borderline misleading as you know.

What do you think of the one shot trust from silencer shop.

My wife and I both use our suppressors and SBRs. I’m not always where she is, she isn’t always where I am, and both of us have need to possess our NFA items throughout the year in different geographic regions.

Silencer are one part but wondering if in a state that banded AR ect as “AW” making them none transferable a trust lets the name members inherit said items. Someday hopefully this will no longer be a issue.

And good luck tomorrow!

What are your thoughts about an LLC owning the NFA items?

What no one talks about is - what if you only do a single shot trust for yourself and you become room temp and the item is no where to be found then what?

@roflchopter11

Ай бұрын

Well if they can't find the item, it's going to be a problem regardless. But you can leave your ownership of a trust to someone.

Clickbait title. First ever downvote for your channel. The comments section and your video are both full of reasons to do a trust. If you prioritize a short wait over the other benefits, go individual, but calling them useless is dumb, and not caring about what happens to your estate when you die is also dumb. I highly suspect, though, that the ATF is intentionally doing individual forms quicker to incentivize people away from trusts. If accurate, that is basically an admission that it's easier for them to do ATF type stuff to you and your dog when you go individual.

@gerthddyn

7 күн бұрын

I love that he specifically states that his wife is covered by his individual NFA Tax Stamps. Every bit of legal advice I've ever seen says it is absolutely not, even directly from the BATFE (though they change their minds on what rules do every other week, so who knows when that will change). I'm guessing he wants the ATF to break down the door and send her to prison if something happens to him.

Yea, I know how sneaky/corrupt the ATF is, no way buddy. I know the "hang out at the range and wait till the guy with all the toys goes to the bathroom and you try and charge the person standing there with 'possession'. No thank you. Plus filling out forms and doing all that nonsense after you die is just plain unnecessary when there are simple, cheap trusts to buy that will help these items stay in the family. Plus, my friends and family can take my stuff to the range if they wanted to, so there's that. Not having a trust is dumb in my opinion. You should only 'consider' it, if they were costly and time consuming but they're not so, yea.

Since atf rule 41f two of the main benefits of using a trust were removed. Those benefits are no cleo signature and no fingerprints/photograph. You no longer need a cleo signature if you buy individually, and everyone on the trust has to submit fingerprints/photograph and fill out form 4473. However, nfa trusts do still have a purpose. The main reason to use a nfa trust for a suppressor is if you want your family members to be able to use your suppressor legally without you by their side. If you buy individually, it is a felony to lend your suppressor to anyone without you present and under your supervision. So moral of the story is before rule 41f buying a suppressor with a nfa trust was a good idea. Now it just adds a lot more paperwork, money, and time to approve to your purchase. The main reason to use one is if you have family members or friends that will use your suppressor without you.

ive not seen anything that says NFA items fall into martial property rights. can you provide a link to documentation/case law/anything, that will support that? not trying to say that you are wrong, but more so that i want to have something that i can cite in the future.

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

Why is this different from any other type of property?

@jeebugorn

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channel because NFA items are federally regulated items and not typical property. if they were typical property, Form 5 wouldnt need to exist. if a husband died, and he had an NFA item not in a trust, the possession of the item would just pass to the wife.

@Youknowwh0iam

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channellol you don’t sound smart asking that question 😂

@NicholasA231

Ай бұрын

​@@VSO_Gun_ChannelIt isn't. But the AFT is constantly caging people and fighting them in court to push their own ridiculous interpretations of things that they aren't even consistent about internally, just to screw with them. Why would any of this garbage be a thing? We're discussing "crimes" that no legitimate government could possibly declare as such. The only answer is to eliminate the whole thing. Time to fund the war-chests and have some people get standing. Theoretically: Force them to defend criminalizing a spouse for using their community property. I get people who can't handle buying that ticket - I certainly don't want to, and I can't even say for sure right now what I'll do when I get a can - but the odds that your number gets pulled to be the test-case is small, and at some point we're all going to have to man up and get rid of the infringements. I'm terrified of our government at this point, but compliance with byzantine tyranny out of fear isn't sustainable either. Rock, meet hard place.

@firstbeforelast433

Ай бұрын

I cant believe he left this vid up.... First time I've seen his content and I wouldn't trust him with anything else.

If it’s on a home defense gun, which to me makes sense if your spouse has to fire the weapon inside. Then in that case a trust is absolutely necessary. Correct?

You're not wrong about the limited utility of the trust. I have one that I no longer use, but I'm glad that I got it when I did. When I formed my trust, my sons were in their very early twenties and we all shared our common interest of shooting. They were young and broke. The trust allowed me to buy the items, but my sons could still take them to the range and use them without me as theyvwere trustees. They're older now. When Covid hit, one son wanted to buy a can and place it on the trust. Itvwas clear that they could buy their own stuff now. That fact along with updating prints and pics during covid was a pain in the ass, I deducted that the reason to continue to use our trust had expired. So in my very narrow set of circumstances, I think that my reasoning still holds. I wouldn't blame anyone to do the same today if a trust could accomish it for them.

I have the Silencer Shop trust for other people to use without me being there. Recently I filled out a paper, Individual Form 4 and was wondering what the wait time is? That 3 letter agency says on their website that it’s going to take 288 days but they were real quick to take out their $200 fee (couple days after the form was sent). Has anyone actually filled out the paper form 4 and got it approved as quick as the eForm?

When all the fast can turnaround times started, I bought 7 cans, all processed as individual. Longest took 3 days, shortest 1 day 14 hours. I spent around $4000. Not chump change, but also not a crazy amount of money when you are talking about a wear item that I should be able to enjoy hopefully for the next 20-30 years. When i die, I had better have set my wife up far better than a couple of measly cans that at that point are probably worth maybe half that if i am lucky. I agree, it just isnt worth it. . .

Having my significant other carry around any of my NFA items without me being present has great value. She usually goes out with her guest and shoes without me around. Try that without a trust.

Wait until one of the people on your trust decides not to let the item go or be used by anyone else! Thanks ex-brother in law! Lol

Perhaps you should title the vid "NFA trusts are useless if you have no spouse/significant other and are childless" And yes, "one shot" type trusts are not for your benefit, only the company selling you a suppressor. Given your level of expertise I'm surprised you dont mention the 24 month letter of exception and if/how that affects wait time. Eck-setera, eck-setera.

12:35 🙄 “adding a new asset to the trust paperwork” - not true, especially with single shot unlimited. Separate trust for each item adds complexity, but initially only yourself so may be some delay but still goes through. Can add/remove additional trustees later.

We use a trust and have multiple NFA items. All trustees are myself, spouse and 4 children and typically when we go shooting it is a family event. I thought one of the benefits was the 200.00 dollar transfer fee. Are you saying they do not have to pay a transfer fee if I had the NFA item only in my name? Because of the quick approval times I am thinking about not using the trust for my next purchase. I am hesitant to do that because it adds another layer of complexity to the items we own and passing instruction to our children for when I am gone. Some NFA items in a trust and others not. Thank you for the video.

@beesknees6970

Ай бұрын

I am going to buy as an individual, then transfer to the trust once I have it. Sounds like you get it alot faster as an individual instead of a trust. So at least you'll have it while waiting to transfer it into the trust.

What are you thoughts on Single shot unlimited gun trust from silencer shop?

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

See the title

It was explained to me that they make it easier to will it to my family

- So, absent a trust, a spouse would also own the item. Do the children "own" the item, or are they considered minors incapable of legally owning (such) property? I may have just answered my own question.

@calebshipley4448

Ай бұрын

The spouse may "own" the item, but if they get caught with it in the car when they didn't know it was in there (which has happened), have fun explaining that.

@stevep7346

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I wouldn't take that advice, at all. Ownership isn't the same as posession in any case.

Beneficiary’s is solely the reason I filed and I think most do.

all the people who fell for marketing have their pitchforks ready.

I would guess that most trusts don't have more than three or four trustees.

The wait time for me has been over a yr so far.

@raymondalexander5848

Ай бұрын

Me too

@joshmajor8662

Ай бұрын

Should have done it electronically!! The paper method is asinine and just pointless these days Lol good luck 👍

@DUNCEATRON5000

Ай бұрын

Been there

Trusts may be useless for form 4 items but not for form 1 items. There was no way in hell I was going to have my $5K SBR defaced with an engraving of my individual name on it.

So if you don't have a trust, what happens to the item when you die? Does the ATF actually go around door-to-door collecting all of these NFA items each and every single time someone dies?

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

Didn’t watch the video

@Spushed

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channel didn't explain thoroughly

The only reason i have NFA silencer trusts is so my wife can be on there and be in possession while I'm away from home.

How about creating a trust after the fact? You get your SBR’s silencers, etc. And say, you want to now include your wife?

@Persuasian338

Ай бұрын

I'm wondering the same

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

That’s a transfer tax

@DUNCEATRON5000

Ай бұрын

You have to transfer the items to the trust at a cost of 200

@Heikin-Ashi-Larry

Ай бұрын

@@DUNCEATRON5000 is that per item?

@roflchopter11

Ай бұрын

​@@Heikin-Ashi-LarryYes, per item. Thats why they wouldn't do brace transfers to trusts unless the pistol was on the trust when the edict was published.

If you have kids and you die, can the children fill out an atf tax exemption transfer like the spouse can?

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

Yes as long as they are adults

@jayfig78

Ай бұрын

Awesome thank you!

A trust was nessisary for me cause the sheriff at the time wouldn't sign off on a suppressor. With a trust, I could bypass said signature.

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

CLEO sign off is no longer a thing.

@bigwooly8014

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channel that's the best news I've heard all year. Haha. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

@beesknees6970

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channel I thought that it's still a thing if you buy as an individual, but it's only as a trust they just get notified, they don't sign off. At least in a red state like Texas. Has something changed in the past 4 years?

@kc8omg

Ай бұрын

@bigwooly8014 @@beesknees6970 ATF Final Rule 41F became effective on July 13, 2016, that removed the CLEO signature requirement for individual and *added* the background check requirement for trustees: www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/final-rule-41f-background-checks-responsible-persons-effective-july-13

This is an excellent explanation of why a single multi item NFA trust is unwieldy. That's why something like the "Single Shot" trust is better, you never have submit anything new to the ATF and you can add whoever you want. And your next separate trust can just be a single person without anyone else complicating it. Also, if you are thinking of buying an expensive MG you should probably have a trust/corporation setup before hand.

I go the NFA Trust route for the same reasons already stated in the comments before me .... family, wife, sons, daughters .... and girlfriends who have tattooed my username and avatar on their upper right butt cheeks. But I get it, why some are going the no-Trust route these days. BTW, fwiw, all pf my cans have taken over 200 days, over the years. The first one I filled electronically .... 371 days (just recently and I filed almost the first day eForms were accepted). The second one I filed electronically .... 311 days. I've still got two in jail both filed through eForms. One is up to 112 days and the other is less than 30 days in jail. We shall see how long it takes to get those back. There is simply no rhyme to the reason. The approval times are all over the place under Biden's ATF. I swear it is just wackadoodle .... but I'll continue to put them on Trusts for now.

Thank you Sir. I got my first 3 silencer from Silencer Central and bought into their trust sales pitch. So I completely get this gals rant. But it's wrong, and they do sell it as she went on about, and you did a great job explaining. Nothing against them, I love those cans, but they made me feel I had to go through them to add more to the trust, hence buy more cans. Don't get the 2k people thing.

A trust greatly simplifies the process. You can add and remove additional items and people to it at will. I really don't see the reason NOT to use a trust.

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

Did you watch the video?

@user-qu6dv6qu8d

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channel I did, it was kind of all over the map, kind of confusing. My opinion was already formed so I probably didn't really try to dig into the content. I went through Silencer Shop online and the trust was one of the easiest things I've ever done.

I don't know where people get this shit about silencers turning into lava as soon as the owner dies if you don't have a trust. Transferring an NFA item from an estate is a form 5.

@presmadagascar

Ай бұрын

Oh he says that later

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

You are tracking

Eh... I feel like you sort of just butchered the concepts of community property/seperate property in marriages as well as misrepresent the probate process (and potential hassle it can present when mixed with NFA items). You know, the whole legal concepts that you "think work a certain way and.... they don't actually work that way" thing. I'll help you out with this one and try to help you understand one of the primary benefits of trusts (nfa or otherwise) as traditionally employed. First, marital property. The vast majority of US states operate in accordance to the concept of community property. There are two types of property in a marriage: community property and separate property. The first generally comprises all property acquired during marriage with certain exceptions such as gifts, inheritance, and most court awarded judgments for personal injury. The second comprises, well everything that's not community property... but mostly refers to property owned BEFORE your marriage. You have an incorrect assumption that when you get married, your wife gets half of everything you own. In actuality, it's exactly the opposite. When you get married, your wife gets NOTHING of what you own. She's going to get half of everything you EARN or ACQUIRE AFTER you get married. Everything I own is still separate property. Now there's a big distinction here since if, for instance, I buy a can as an individual, my tax stamp goes through today, and I get married tomorrow. Well that can is separate property, not community property, and my wife will have no ownership share of the item and, indeed, will have no ownership share or right to transport or possess that item in the event of my untimely demise UNLESS I either bequeath it to her in my Will or I die intestate (without a will) and my state's intestate inheritance scheme leaves my wife some sort of surviving spouse's share of my seperate property (that may change depending on if I have children and if those are children of my marriage with this particular wife... and, most importantly... exactly what type of property the wife gets to take as her surviving spouse's share). If, however, I have a will and, lets say my will leaves, for instance, everything to my children... she can't touch that can and she can't be in possession of that can unless she's the executor of my will... and in that case she can only take possession in order to transfer the item to its rightful owner. When a marriage ends due to death or divorce, each side (barring the usual settlement after a lengthy mediation session in the case of divorce) is generally entitled to walk away with ALL their separate property plus a theoretical and equitable half of the community property (there's lots of wiggle room here to argue but it's not pertinent to our discussion so I'll gloss over it). The point is that there's a likelihood that in a significantly nonzero portion of the population, a spouse MAY indeed have no right to possess or even transport your individually owned suppressor after your demise and your claims otherwise are actually, patently, and factually incorrect. Now, on to probate. You seem to think that a lawful heir simply needs to log onto ATF eforms, file a form 5 tax exempt transfer, and everything will be a ok. That's... now how it works. In order to file a form 5, the individual needs to provide proof that they are, indeed, an actual heir of the deceased or, at the very least, are a person that should be qualified to be in possession of the NFA item. The alternative would be me just scanning through the obituary section of the paper and just randomly filing form 5's on everyone's cans. In any case, this means you need to go through probate BEFORE you can file your form 5 or the ATF is just going to stamp your form 5 with a really big DISAPPROVED stamp. Generally, probate involves, you know, going to court, having a hearing, presenting evidence that you are the heir (generally a will, or, if there is no will, two or more affidavits of heirship by persons who are close to the decedent). After said hearing, the judge will sign an order declaring heirship and another order appointing either an executor or administrator whereupon either the executor of the estate gets letters testamentary or the administrator of the estate (appointed by the court) gets letters of administration. THEN that executor or administrator can take possession of the NFA item via form 5 to, in turn, form 5 the item again to the eventual heir. This process, while you don't need to pay any more tax stamps to the government, can become quite tedious and costly as you need to pay court fees, attorney's fees, and sometimes even a myriad of other fees if it's an intestate probate. And while MOST testate probate cases are relatively painless and over in a matter of weeks to maybe a couple months, INTESTATE probate can drag out to maybe a year or more. Yep... turns out the courts aren't that much faster than the ATF used to be with their tax stamp approvals. So what's the real reason people should get NFA trusts? No, not the whole conspiracy theorist protect your property from the government crap. It's also not for asset protection, as most gun trusts are structured as revocable living trusts and aren't exempt from judment anyway. So why do we use them? It's the same reason you get non-nfa Trusts for your real estate property and other large assets... because the trust is a legal entity that owns your item. When you die, the trust doesn't die, and hence the beneficiaries of your trust gets to skip that whole probate thing. I mean, there's a lot of other reasons, but most of the widely marketed NFA trusts don't even offer those perks to be drafted into their standard documentation. They do, however, offer the basic benefit of circumventing the probate courts when you eventually croak. Why NFA specific trusts as opposed to just using your general trust? Well, because NFA items have different, stricter requirements for ownership than traditional property, like, well, um, not being a felon. We can't have disqualified heirs on our NFA trusts, and yet we often don't want to disinherit heirs from our traditional trusts altogether. Hence, NFA trusts. And I get that you're a gun guy and are primarily concerned with the whole suppressor ownership and interaction with the ATF part of the whole application process, and I do also happen to think that certain products offered by suppressor companies (like the single shot trust) are sorta preying on the ignorant (not gonna get into that here). I also think that, at the present, the wait time benefits of buying cans as an individual outweigh the lack of hassle to my heirs after my death (what do I care, I'll be dead right?) but if you want to talk about something, you really should make sure what you say isn't just patently wrong and do your homework when delving into legal concepts... or you just sorta sound like, well, ignorant. Or, if that's too much work you could just... stay in your lane. I know there's a bunch of lawyers that do the whole guntuber thing... but that street doesn't really go both ways.

I’d be more than happy to house your dog until the ATF leaves your place of business if you’d like. Save the puppies and defund the ATF.

Where's ol Kurt at now? Has he commented back with his 2k people on a trust with a single 500 dollar suppressor? Lmao

KZread is getting more Yousless.

@VSO_Gun_Channel

Ай бұрын

What would you like to see?

@TheRockFarm

Ай бұрын

"...since rule 41F was changed almost a decade ago which states: insert pertinent information here"

@joshmajor8662

Ай бұрын

@@VSO_Gun_Channelobviously he’s just an idiot Lol 😂 I’m in Kentucky, close enough!! I wanna see you do a fuel filter suppressor the legal way. I know the quality, I’m just curious. I’d imagine several others are too.

@jb7483

Ай бұрын

​@VSO_Gun_Channel ​ facts, not conjecture when it comes to the topic at hand. Have a lawyer who specializes in 2a law would have been nice. NFA items are strictly regulated by the federal government. After an item has been purchased by and transferred to its registered owner, only that owner may be in possession of it. Where a gun owner might loan a friend their shotgun to go hunting or their pistol to go to the range, you cannot do that with an NFA regulated weapon. Possession by anyone else, whether actual or constructive, could be a violation of the law, yes this can be a spouse. This single requirement makes a trust an ideal way to own an NFA weapon. For instance, if an individual purchases an NFA weapon by themselves, without using a trust, and they later become incapacitated, die, or are otherwise ineligible to possess the item, then any family member or friend who comes in contact with it may be breaking the law. An NFA trust can avoid these types of illegalities. In creating an NFA trust, the trust itself is the owner and anyone listed in it may legally possess the weapon. Thus, a husband may purchase an NFA weapon and name his wife as trustee, or an individual may name selected friends and family members as part of the trust. This allows the weapon to be possessed and used by members of the trust, as well as passed on to beneficiaries, and avoids potential violations of federal law. Individuals can be added and subtracted as necessary, depending on the type of trust.