KZread should mark this video as a perma-tip for newbies: How to make a simple yet effective demo/comparison clip. No shaky cam, no chatter about your life, no background noises from the kids or pets, and no wandering down rabbit-holes on w/e shiny thing catches your attention during the shoot. Just give the viewers what it says in the title, neat & clean. Yes, this might require some pre- (scripting) and/or post-video (editing) work, but so do most things that are worth doing. Bravo! :-)

@andreasleonlandgren3092

5 жыл бұрын

Allen Cross purist

@ManInTheBigHat

5 жыл бұрын

And no starting and stopping, arranging the mic on the fly, saying you should've not talked so much while still talking.

@pinkmagnolia921

5 жыл бұрын

Agree 100%, every second of your videos has meaningful content!

@SAOProductions1955

4 жыл бұрын

Oh, provocateur!

@lukekingsland5851

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

Ironic. A silent video about audio equipment.

@petrisalonen4893

4 жыл бұрын

Why is everyone afraid? Use an old obscure LP that's not on CD or streaming sites. So simple but today I have heard only turntable reviews with no sound. Madness!

@Recordology

4 жыл бұрын

petri salonen It’s not that they’re afraid, it’s that KZread will monetize their video and they won’t make any money off of it. This all happens automatically, I’ve had videos utilizing records from the 20s get copyright claims.

@petrisalonen4893

4 жыл бұрын

Record-ology. Ok thanks I didn't know how strict it is. Stupid really, if you guys play like 20 seconds of a record how it can harm anybody? For God's sake you could make us even want to buy the music we hear? Times are really just getting worse with every new decade. Less freedom everywhere, but more austerity instead.

@Recordology

4 жыл бұрын

petri salonen I would tend to agree! Sometimes I get dinged on some music if I go over 3 seconds!!! And a lot of the time the claimants are erroneous. There is an appeals process but it can be maddening.

@bareknuckles2u

4 жыл бұрын

He has plenty of videos with sound. He does the best cartridge comparisons on KZread. I think it is nice reading the text without the usual chatter.

Who else checked their sound was still working at the start of this?

I have a DUAL 704, purchased it in 1978. Still works like magic. Crazy thing with this turntable, you can, for fun, put it at any angle and it will play. I've had it perpendicular on it's side with the arm tracking up. Great pieces of electronics made back then. Very hands on.

@greydogmusic

3 жыл бұрын

Stereo store in the 70’s had one upside down on the ceiling. They claimed there was. I modification other than the record glued to the platter.

@RUfromthe40s

7 ай бұрын

​@@greydogmusic i once was very high and my home as two floors having a balcony in the second floor to one side only the other it´s only the roof, once i had my two Sl-1200mkII playing records in a party at my home and some started to bother me saying "let me put this and that...i was either than high also drunk and i threw it from the balcony to the street, when i woke up next afternoon i went to the balcony drinking cofee and smoking a cigar that´s when i look to the street and saw a turntable than i look inside and one was missing only after maybe 10 minuts i remenber having throwing it to the street, half an hour later after dressing myself with some snickers and shorts i went to see it and for my surprise the cover was broken in half but the turntable it wotked and believe it or not i had some shure professional needles and it was not broken or crocked," this is very strong ",i thought at the time and for the ones who don´t use covers in the turntable, if i had not the cover assembled several parts would brake so to avoid destroying a good turntable while throwing it from a second floor to the street , use covers avoid having to buy another turntable ,they are not there just to avoid being filled with dust but they protect it, when working i used to take them off but this was at home in a litle terrace(not that litle maybe 45 square meters)

Yamaha YP-D6. Quartz locked, direct drive. 43 years old and still perfect.

I have an original PL520 I inherited from my father, one of my most treasured possessions. I still feel a strong connection to him when I put an LP on. I’ve thought about a new player now and again but love the fact that some of the older products outdo their modern counterparts for the money. Thanks for the comparison.

I like the vintage because you can get it fully automatic. It starts and starts with a press of a button. When the side is over, the arm returns to the arm rest and shuts off.

New turntables are often stripped down and spartan skeletons with little esthetic appeal. Vintage tables are more often like works of art, and the build quality had to be there for the thing to still function after so many years.

@OrganNLou

3 жыл бұрын

This is because they matured their skill right before cds came in. You will have to spend thousands to compete with some of the vintage tables.

@jogmas12

2 жыл бұрын

That’s why you need to buy a modern turntable the caliber of a VPI and be ready to spend at least $1500. I would not spend anything less than that on a modern turntable. Inflation my friend

i have a Pioneer Pl 112D vintage manual TT from the seventies and i love it!! wooden base , suspension, beautifull s shaped tonearm, robust feeling switches and totally a machine that plays music very well and makes me happy :)

I picked up a Technics SL-1350 in fantastic condition last week, I think it's better than anything I could've got new for the price. These 70s japanese direct drive tables have such rock solid reputations and I can see why now.

@imfrcd

4 жыл бұрын

Got my 1350 about 3 years ago....$75.00 eBay, before everything went nuts.

The Orbit is grounded through the left audio channel. No ground wire is necessary.

I have bought 2 or three vintage turntables over the years and put new cartridges on them ( last being the Ortophon 2M Red). They sounded great. They did however show their age in various ways. I got tired of fiddling with them so I bit the bullet and bought a new Clearaudio Concept turntable and it sounds fantastic. Not cheap but worth it.

@thimble288

4 жыл бұрын

The clearaudio table is the nicest I've seen, really I can't believe it's not twice the price. You chose wisely.

@Tnapvrvideo

3 жыл бұрын

Your experience is very common. I love the "vintage" turntables, but I would only buy one if I could locate a highly reputable person/business to do a full restoration as soon as I acquired it. I perfect working condition, a "vintage", direct drive, 1970's turntable is unparalleled in performance and appearance.

I have a PL 540 and it is brilliant. It's good to see new decks, that are well thought out being marketed in a resurgent vinyl market but I love the gear that was made in the 70's and 80's

I was given a realistic lab 420 a while back, put a new cartridge in it and it sounds great, same features as all the higher brand names and it does repeat, whole lot works perfect for a 40 year old machine, the price was perfect too lol

@generalzod7959

2 жыл бұрын

yeh, realistic doesn't get much credit for putting out some good stuff because people think radio shack products are just junk. some of it is but, they also made some good stuff.

I have always preferred older turntables, the one we have was made in the 1980s and it is a Technics SL-B210 and was found in a skip in 2000 and it has been working perfectly ever since.

I got a '74 Telefunken w268 hifi, and what you need to add to this video is that playing a record over a vintage turntable also adds a unique experience to the music, because of the vintage vibes😂

Excellent, no-nonsense video. Loved it! On a side note, I prefer non automatic return. I took the return gear out of my Pioneer pl-518. Sometimes a record has some cool stuff in the dead wax that I can't miss. (Listen to Peter Gabriel's "White Shadow" and hear the synth go on forever. Or an old Sgt. Pepper, side two.)

Have a Pioneer PL-514 that I bought new back in 1978 when I was still in high school. Still going strong. It was the best I could afford at the time. The stereo shop that I purchased it from is long gone but I still remember the place with all the Pioneer amps, turntables, receivers. They even had the reel to reel decks. Spent many hours mowing lawns to save up for the turntable, SX-450 receiver and a pair of ProA speakers.

I got my hands on an Dual 704 along with LP from the 70s/80s. Updated the cable and the pickup with an ortofon blue. It plays like a charm. The soundsignature and the flow in music sound just right and is a joy. My kids love this magic turntable too

I have a U-Turn and I really like it. However, I have extra space now. It MIGHT seem excessive but I think I might try finding a vintage turntable for one room and keeping the U-Turn for another.

@hawkfumodee5364

5 жыл бұрын

Build a collection mate. No seriously, flog the cement mixer and buy one really good quality deck :).

@jmad627

4 жыл бұрын

Jeffery Jones I’m doing the same thing all I need is a new pair of speakers. Love the U-Turn as well. It’s not quite as good as my Technics, but I really love it.

Let's be honest 70's and early 80's was the golden age for audio, they just had passion, precision and overbuilding audio equipment. However, now is the golden age for video when you see what we have in TV, Projectors technology and Bluray and 4K format.

Turntable technology has not improved since the 80s, they just got way uglier. Same with cassettes, a 90s Sony machine with Dolby S and 3 tape heads is almost as good as it can get. Or a Tandberg TCD 3014 that rival Nakamichi Dragon, it is an absolute monster that came out in the 80s.

I bought MCS 6720 turntable for $13. It's quartz direct drive, fully automatic, counterweight, and antiskate. MCS turntables were sold by JC Penney but made by Panasonic/Technics.

@Audiorpheus_Vinyl

6 жыл бұрын

Great find! Quartz lock is amazing

The U-Turn is definitely not the best new table you can buy, as they’re many others in its price range and slightly above that are better, in my opinion. However, the U-Turn is one the better turntables for people looking to upgrade out of that cheap beginner turntable stage. Definitely a good intro to the audiophile world, while still on a budget.

So, I shall tell about my experiences with old turntables: I've got a Dual 1214 (1960s) combined with a Saba MI 150 Amp and a pair of Philips MZ-9 speakers. Using an AT 91 system and needle. Sounds pretty good when I turn up the high frequencies, want to upgrade to maybe an AT 95 or something since various test revealed that the Dual would blow you away with an OMB5, but I can only get one channel to work with that system. Still a great value since you can get near mint Dual 1214s (and other versions of that turntable) for about 60 bucks, got the Philips speakers for 5€ (pair) and the amp came with the complete stereo system belonging to it for 80€. If the higher frequencies were not a problem for the AT, the thing would outdo my dad's Thorens 160 with technics amp and speakers which ran him a few grand back in the day. I also have a Dual party 295 which is a portable turntable from the 50s. Got one of the first models out of the factory, it is in near mint condition. Wonderful little thing. Connect it to your old tube radio and put some 1930s shellac on it. Great experience. And this old turntable actually has one of the crispest, best sounds I have heard... It just destroys your vinyl with 7-21grams of force. My dad also has a grammophone from the 20s, made in Stalingrad. Awesome thing, mint condition and it plays back every shellac you put on it perfectly.

I use a Thorens TD-125 with a Rabco SL-8E straight line tracking arm and Shure V15-Type III.

I own several vintage direct drive turntables. The reason why I like the vintage ones is the automatic start and return. Also a lot of the newer ones lack a speed adjustment on top and anti skate. Last but not least, the build quality, less plastic parts.

@jogmas12

2 жыл бұрын

Dude, have you ever heard of something called inflation? That pioneer when new perhaps cost $199 in say 1979. That modern u turn turntable is what, $199 in 2020? Let’s factor in inflation: $199 in 1979 is $709 in 2020. This was not a fare comparison obviously.

@joechisten7176

2 жыл бұрын

@@jogmas12 inflation has nothing to do with it, the video is about buying a turntable in the present. You are aware that it is possible to purchase a vintage electronic device right? Like, did you think this video was about going back in time to buy a turntable? It took me literally 30 seconds to find PL-540s on secondhand sites for around the same price as a new UTurn. It's a perfectly fair* comparison

@jogmas12

2 жыл бұрын

@@joechisten7176 dude, inflation does factor in. Too keep that u turntable at $199 in todays would obviously require them to use inferior materials than what they made that hypothetical pioneer turntable in 1979. And don’t lecture me on vintage. I own a 1985 Acoustic Research turntable bought new in 1985 still in use today. It would cost over $1200 today to make that same turntable with the same materials

@joechisten7176

2 жыл бұрын

@@jogmas12 I want you to go online right now and actually look up the turntables featured in this video and compare the prices you find. They are literally the same price. Please shut the fuck up

@joechisten7176

2 жыл бұрын

@@jogmas12 and like , the thing about materials and construction is literally the point of the video lmao

Wanted an Orbit, but found a vintage Kenwood KD-550, and I'm so glad I pulled the trigger on the Kenwood.

It’s almost a given that you’ll get more for your money with a used/vintage turntable. I’m somewhere down the middle with a Rega P5/Neo PSU, 2M black cartridge... it sounds awesome!

Another great video! I just purchased a 1977 era JVC Ql-7 TT (Quartz Lock, Direct Drive) and it is a beast! No "vibration" platform needed, thank you!

Direct drive, automatic and repeat functions. Love my PL-530. Cheers!

I'll keep the vintage. Turntables were made well back then because it was the main format. Even the cheap BSR changers were very complex with their mechanisms. They tracked better than the first one. Thank you for sharing.

@donvanduzen8944

5 жыл бұрын

BSR changers destroyed Vinyl.

I only paid $35.00 for my PL-540, it’s mint condition too, even the feet, only the stylus was missing. I guess I got a good deal.🙂

Great video. I went to shop to ask for a vintage table and the guys kept saying i should buy new since the old ones are harder on records. I donn’t like the new ones so this video makes me feel good about my choice. Thanks.😊

@lydiab823

2 жыл бұрын

That isn’t true about vintage turntables being harder on records. It’s more about having your turntable properly setup (ex. tracking force, stylus overhang, etc) that will keep your records in better shape. Cleaning your LPs and stylus are also key factors, as well as changing out a stylus when it starts showing wear.

I currently have two perfectly-functioning vintage Pioneer turntables....a PL-50A (belt drive), and a PL-71 (direct drive). Both are solid (around 25 lbs. each), well-built from real wood and nicely-machined aluminum. I don`t think I`ll be trading either one in on one of those entry-level jobs like the U-turn....

I own three vintage turntables. They all need work. Recently ordered two Orbits, with different carts, for the cost of restoring my vintage tables. I like the Spartan design of the Orbit. Simple. Fewer points of failure. I’ll keep my Dual 701, once restored, and let the other two vintage tables go. For anyone wanting to spend $300 on a turntable I’d recommend new not vintage. And the Orbit is tough to beat - great CS too - and made in country (US).

I know I love the vintage tables. I own several Duals. One thing though for a person buying vintage. Watch what you buy. They are great but are 40-60 years old. Know if the units have been fully serviced before paying way to much money. 3 Of my tables were mine and my dads and still played even after all these years, but sticky. Found a guy who specializes in Dual and completely went through them and now will be here for years to come. I did get a few other used tables and paid $20.00 for one of them. Then could afford to redo them too. If I paid a lot for a used and it got bad fast you are out all that money plus service. So the thing in comparing them will the new one last as long as the vintage and be as good to the records over times. A lot of my records from the late 70's to early 80's still play fantastic.

I was born in 1960. I grew up with the equipment from that era. Here I am in 2021 looking at ALL of these new offerings. Keeping this discussion focused solely on turntables and using this demo video as a reference, I think the "vintage" turntables from the 1970s time period (specifically from Pioneer, Denon, Dual, Thorens, and Marantz) are better built, they are far more pleasing to the eyes (completely subjective), they have far better features including speed control (a huge! plus), and they have proven longevity which speaks further to their build quality. The one draw back to "vintage" turntables are their power cords and interconnects. Those are weak. They clearly work, however I think changing them out would make sense. That ends their 'original' status, but I doubt any buyer would hesitate to by it from you. Plus, you can simply include the original wires with the sale should the buyer desire to have them put back into the turntable.

3 days ago I buyed a Philips AF-829 MK2 with a Philips GP 406 MKII cartridge, I have a Tesla NC 470 turntable also. Love the look of the Philips, but I will need time to get it to the level I want it - sand down the plexi and polish it, clean it and replace the old stock interconnect cable with RCA outs. Vintage audio gear for cheap is always better than a new cheap turntable or audio gear, mostly.

On this comparison I'd go vintage. As it happens I have a Pioneer PL200 and I love it.

It might be old but stuff made in the late 1970 into the 1980 made some top quality hi fi components . I still have my Scott turntable from 1985

I own a mint Pioneer PL-540. I wouldn't sell it for $400. It's a beautiful machine. Glad to see some new, good turntables out though.

@acceler9

6 жыл бұрын

I have one as well! I cherish it deeply, and would never sell! Still sounds good after all these years!

Thanks from the future. I just got one of these PL-540's for free and wasn't sure if I should sell it for something more modern. I just wish the pioneer's case was a bit more 'aesthetic'. I just need to have the auto-return function fixed on my unit.

@thuggathuggababy

3 жыл бұрын

You could always customize it many people do that for these late 70s pioneer turntables and they aren’t too hard to do

I don't even need see this test. the "S" shaped tonearm is the way to go. stays aligned in the groove longer. less wear. the new one looks like a toy. I have a technics sp-15, sp-25 and a sl-1600 mkII that i'll never sell. the 1600 has a repeat button, I know that sounds like a gimmick, but as a club dj in the 70's, 80's, 90's it's very nice to put on one of your new records and let it play 8 or 10 times to get familiar with the breaks or mix spots, or what version you want to play of a song. you wouldn't want a automatic TT in a club environment, but at home, it's nice. I've had it since about 1980 and it looks like I just bought it yesterday.

I was given a modern Audio Technica LP-120 for a Christmas gift. I started wondering why it just didn't seem to sparkle like the turntables of my childhood. Maybe it was old ears. I found a deal on a used Scott PS-17 --a very mediocre belt drive turntable from 1978. I bought it with the purpose of sticking a new belt on it, cleaning it up and selling it. So that's what I did. I cleaned out the dust, and put a couple drops of oil in the motor bearing. It had a Realistic/Shure R1000e cartridge. I plugged it in to test it... and there it was --that old sparkle! It sounded way better than the modern turntable.There was better channel separation, tighter bass, and clearer high ends. I was actually quite shocked. I attribute it mostly to the better cartridge, but even on paper, the old table blew the new one out of the water. And... it had an automatic tonearm return. No more stopping what I'm in the middle of to run back to the record player to rescue the stylus.

Pioneer LP 70 series one direct drive 40 years old. Working perfectly

Nice video. The only mistake I made was turning up the volume and forgetting about it when the next video played. Ouch! I would put a disclaimer about having no audio.

The 200 dollar uturn is where the value is. You wasted another 100 on acrylic platter. Buying vintage is a gamble and they eventually need maintenance. I used to always buy vintage until I got tired of trouble shooting issues. A uturn works out of the box 99 percent of the time and has a warranty. No waiting on a good vintage one to pop up locally, no worrying about damage from shipping. Just because you had a good experience with that particular table doesn't mean everyone does.

@keithb6717

4 жыл бұрын

Spoken like a true neophyte.

Yep, building a proper quartz direct drive system is just a lot more difficult than looping a rubber band round a motor...

@johnhughes8466

5 жыл бұрын

@@jerryking7502 Quite right Jerry! Its all conjecture as sound is the most important thing when listening to a turntable which has not been testedin this post ! Its all in the ears and everybody will almost certainly have a differing opinion! I have a project debut carbon (2014) and have upgraded my platter, phono stage and stylus and I am very happy with the results(just by listening) If everybody listened to the tech snobs then every other hi-fi enthusiast would feel inferior! What I am trying to say is that everybody has a different opinion as to what turntable is the best and debating it turns into a futile argument! Just listen to make your own mind up and then buy within your budget! Simples!

@goodun6081

5 жыл бұрын

@@jerryking7502 , generally I prefer belt-drive turntables, both for the overall Simplicity of design that typically equates to much greater longevity and ease of service, and also because belt-drive turntables typically have lower Rumble and greater isolation from acoustic feedback. I fix stereo equipment for a living, I've worked on many hundreds of turntables, and have personally owned about a dozen different brands. I find it difficult to recommend highly electronic or mechanically- complicated vintage turntables to novice buyers because unless they buy it cheaply and locally, perhaps having a chance to test it first for complete proper function, they're likely to get a pig in a poke that they won't be able to easily repair themselves or canmot easily find somebody to fix it for them at a price they can afford. (And turntables fare extremely poorly in shipment unless the seller has the original box and disassembles and packs it per the owner's manual instructions , which rarely happens). In particular, I don't recommend fully automatic turntables as a rule because of the extra complexity in moving mechanisms that often tend to become half-seized with time; and if there is any kind of electronically-driven arm function involving a direct drive or linear motor underneath the tonearm, perhaps with opto couplers or photosensors to provide feedback to the electronics as to the position of the arm at any given time, any such turntable can be a nightmare to repair and the opto couplers and sensors are often bad, and no longer available. Anybody considering buying a Sony or Denon fully automatic turntable with electronic tonearm should probably think twice about it, or make absolutely certain that it is 100% functional before they purchase it, or have right of return and refund if it is DOA or fails soon after arrival. By the way, I fixed a Denon direct-drive turntable recently, sorry I can't remember the exact model number, but the platter was dead because of a bad thermal fuse down inside the windings of the direct drive motor. I replaced the thermal fuse , which got the platter rotating, at about two hundred RPMs! It turned out to also have a bad , shorted, driver transistor. It would appear that the driver transistor went bad, maybe the owner left the thing on overnight or something like that, and because of the circuit failure the platter spun at 200 RPMs for however long it took to overheat the coil and blow the thermal fuse. I replaced the driver transistor and then it worked properly. (Well, actually, there was one more problem, the soft touch buttons to select play and stop and the speeds were all sticking and I had to disassemble those plastic mechanisms and clean the dust out of them and lube them with a little bit of Teflon ). I've seen other direct drive turntables with a dozen or more bad capacitors or bad integrated circuits. By contrast, most belt-drive turntables merely need some lubrication on the motor, cleaning of the pulley and inside rim of the platter, a fresh belt, and maybe cleaning of the pitch control or speed select switches. So generally, unless you have some experience at turntable repair already and are highly mechanical, if somebody goes to buy a turntable use I would suggest they stick to manual or semi-automatic units that are belt drive. By the way, DC motors that are used in 99.9% of all turntables that have a pitch control are sometimes known to fail, however, if the turntable has a synchronous motor that runs directly off AC and get its speed control from the line frequency of your house current, those synchronous Motors can easily run for 50 years with a little bit of lubrication every decade or so. Typically, turn tables with synchronous Motors will not have a pitch control (unless there is an on-board Wein Bridge oscillator , which is uncommon, or you are using some kind of fancy separate power supply that allows changes or adjustment to the frequency driving the motor); the trick with turntables like that is that you really need to get the *correct* belt if you want the speed to be truly dead on, and unfortunately many internet sellers who claim their belts are exact replacements for such and such a model turntable aren't telling the truth. Service manuals for belt-drive turntables never ever gave you the actual dimensions, length, width or thickness of the belt for that unit, only a part number, so this is where a service shop comes into play. We have thousands of belts on hand. Of course, it's easier to find a suitable replacement belt if the turntable still has the original on it, which is likely to be stretched a little and somewhat dried up, but it gives you a starting point after you measure it.

@kingchakazulu7762

5 жыл бұрын

@@johnhughes8466 , You should have started and ended your comment with your last sentence.

my only problem is old turntables are 50/50 when they come to working properly. Some work pretty good but they almost never work as good as seen here as the motors will be weak and inconsistant. I do have a uturn and have nothing but good luck with it for the past 5 or so years. Not sure what the tracking test was at the end BTW.

I use technics (SL-B2, SL-D2) turntables from the 70s. Technics has a MARVELOUS overhang gauge to mount your cartridge, no guesswork. I have 5 headshells with different cartridges, and all I have to do is set the tracking force and anti skate. BRILLIANT!!!

Thanks for this review. I'm pleasantly surprised to discover that still I have the PL 540 I bought new mid - late 70's. Just re- unboxed it after having it in original box in my garage after 4-5 moves in past 6 years. I think I need to replace the cartridge before I reawaken my record collection. Just bought some Cambridge Audio SX-50 speakers... can't find my old Mordant Shorts. Z-Reviews is right... they sound Sweet. I can hardly wait to listen to vinyl version of "I Robot", Dark Side of the Moon" and "Year of the Cat" again!! Ahhh great memories of fun times.

@Audiorpheus_Vinyl

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing. It’s great that young people are getting into vinyl, but I LOVE that music lovers from the hay-day of Hifi are rediscovering the hobby.

@harryhaacke5289

6 жыл бұрын

Robb Fulton )

These vintage tables (the ones made in the "prime" time for tables late 70s to 80s) seem to be more matured versions of tables producing better speed stability, better damping and newer technologies to bring down distortion (wow & flutter).

I have a Philips GA 212 (1971) with floating suspension. You can place it on the floor right in front of a giant speaker, and crank the volume to the max, while you dance around like a maniac. It doesn't skip, and you don't get feed back. Try that with any other turntable (new or old), and see what happens. Besides being 49 years old by now, and looking and sounding just as fantastic as it did when it was brand new, you really should check it out with a strobe, and compare it to most new turntables. I bet you'll be surprised. This may sound like bragging, but it only goes to prove your point. Vintage rules.

i have a VEGA 106 STEREO made in 1980y in Soviet Union. components: UNITRA G002 HI-FI,with auto stop photo resistor and manual tonearm return, made in poland, needle class 1 GZM 103 Built in high quality phono corrector with option of direct out from needle. it pretty well build, solid device, sounds great and it can compate against modern turntables with price of 300 + bucks

The cuing arm and anti-skate are a must have. Automatic TT I could live without, but I have a manual and automatic TT's. My manual Technics SL-D1 operates flawlessly, but my different Dual turntables can and do act-up due to their dated higher maintenance designs. If I were doing it all over again, I would have gone the Technics route for TT's.

The choice of equipment when buying second hand of course opens up a wonderful world of choice, with models from the last 60 years being built to the standard required to replay microgroove records. Many more companies were in the turntable building market. The late sixties and seventies was the heyday for audio with the Hi-Fi being the major purchase people considered after the car. The Pioneer was a decent model, but I would go further and suggest that you could spend half the price of the new model and get the performance of a high end player that new today would cost maybe a 1000 pounds/dollars. Often the chosen model may require a bit of DIY to bring out the performance but there are many undiscovered gems out there. A Lenco GL75 for instance, is not an 'undiscovered' gem but a good example of a turntable built to extremely high standards in most of the areas that matter, and the DIY for the parts that are unfortunately poor (then and now.) The motor unit is exceptional, with a quality main bearing, heavyweight platter, fairly stiff chassis and motor itself that would today probably cost £300.00 on its own. The arm is simply awful but can be improved dramatically for pennies. This is where HiFi is fun, getting super quality for very little, having something beautifully made and great to look at and use and pride in your own skill getting the most out of these old things.

@lesrogers7310

5 жыл бұрын

Martin DA - I'm nearly 60 and I agree with almost everything you've written but.....what could possibly be better than the current situation? Here we are in 2019 with a few old and several new manufacturers making turntables. So what we have now is really the largest choice of new and used turntables that we've ever had. Take those ultra-cheap (and nasty) Crosley things as a prime example. Due to their ease of use, price point and availability, I wonder how many more people have gotten into the whole 'vinyl revival' thing just based on buying one of these?

@martinda7446

5 жыл бұрын

@@lesrogers7310 Excellent way of looking at things.

Without watching the video, pioneer. Lets watch

Ex DJ Sl-1210 Mk II. Who knows what abuse it has suffered. No looseness in the tone-arm gimbal, so speed issues. I opened it up give it a clean and the construction is incredible - solid cast alloy chassis, hard compound rubber base (with damped feet) AND a slab of bulk molding compound for good measure! That and the heavy platter with thick rubber lining it underneath... No wonder they stopped making them when the tooling was worn out. Massively low noise floor, and fantastic speed stability - the cornerstones of any high end turntable. The tone-arm may not be the best ever, but it's fine, and not too hard to upgrade.

Vintage equipment is the way to go.i have a dual,pioneer and technics since new and i needed very few repairs other than belts and needles.

I prefer Vintage Turntables over the new ones!

Surely, if you're choosing between modern midrange and vintage mid-high end, you'd already be finding a friendly cleaning solution and replacement dust cover to take the years off the turntable :--)

even back in the day ( full Jr high Beatlemania ) I preferred auto turntables, had an original AR that convinced me of that. This new one doesn't have anti skate - $300. ??? I still use a mid '70's Pioneer PL117, only a couple times a month. My main spks are still mid '70's as well ( Koss 1020 ). geezer.

I have had an Orbit for 1 3/4 years and like it a lot. I have also had many Technics and Pioneers, including a PL-518, which was great. Yes, the vintage tables are more solid, have better tonearms and are very tempting (though the prices are high now on these). And, there are some things about the Orbit that I find cheap (tonearm, dustcover hinges), but it functions well. The belt is also difficult to put on (only) when the cue lever is in-place. The Orbit is at it's best (IMHO) at the $179 entry point, maybe adding another $40 to put an AT95e on it; it sounds very good set up like this (perfect for those who want a cheap but good [no Crosleys!] way to get into playing records. Anyway, once you option it up (wood plinth, cue, acrylic platter, better carts), then it becomes less of a value proposition. But, it still competes well against entry-level Pro-Ject, Rega and Music Hall except for the appearance of the tonearm (functionally, it seems to play fine). The Orbit performs well and is incredibly resistant to feedback/rumble from nearby speakers at high volume. I can recall an old PL-530 that would howl often. Though I admire the Orbit and think it's great in it's price range, I am going to give the PLX-1000/500 a chance next time, as they seem to be compelling (fast platter startup, speed change, detachable headshell).

@arichison

5 жыл бұрын

I dont want hum so I may have to not get a dual and go with the orbit, oh well

Vintage is often, but not always, better. Remember to consider the buying power of a dollar when a vintage item was new! $250 to $260 in 1973 works out to between $1,650 and $1,700 in 2023.

Nice video. Cuts to the chase. No idiotic blabbering. No annoying plea for Patreon subs. The only thing I wish you had included is your preference in terms of listening. Which sounds better to you? Specs and features don't always tell the whole story.

Some turntables like the Regas use the right channel ground as the ground wire and therefor no need for separate ground wire.

For a long time I would have sided with vintage. Yes, when they were built they were, generally, better built than modern turntables. Oh, and they had more features (I miss the fully automatic, direct drive turntables I grew up with). But the reality is that they are, well, old. They just are. And, like vinyl records, the demand has driven up the prices. You don't know where they've been or what kind of condition they are in (hell, the people selling them don't even know). I thought I scored a deal with a cheap vintage Pioneer, but it took a dump. Good luck getting your money back. I have absolutely no interest in learning how to take apart and clean/repair a turntable. I found a barely used Pro-Ject Debut Carbon for a good price at an audio store and I took it home with me. I love it! Oh, I didn't like the idea of manual operation, but I don't even notice anymore.

@Zockopa

6 жыл бұрын

Understandable. Prices have risen steeply in my neck of the woods in the last ten years or so also. Still i could score a couple nice vintage turntables for very cheap around 2010. And after a little diy service they work flawless ever since. Both are fully automatic.

My 25 pound Pioneer PL-71 (Direct Drive) TT is 40 years old, and, after being CLA`d, and a new cart, will still take the Pepsi Challenge against just about any sub-$1000 `table out there.

To test the anti-skating you need a section of an LP with no groove, usually found on Hi Fi test records. If the adjustment is correct, the stylus will hold a steady position.

@TimBee100

5 жыл бұрын

I find just lowering the needle shows whether or not it is working properly. If not, it doesn't go straight into the groove it was above but drifts in to the centre a bit.

@SirLoinofBeef235

5 жыл бұрын

Side 4 of Second Winter. Put it on and leave the party and watch the responses to nothing!

Great video... thanks. Sadly it’s all about cost and profit today.

This really does prove that is better getting the older turntables. There are some really nice Nakamichi and dual ones that would beat the new ones by a mile.

I use a Pioneer PL518 with a SoundSmith Otello cart and it plays really well. I prefer to listen to lps over cds. But there are really good new tts out there better than my Pioneer. Just a lot more expensive.

I kept my Technics SLDL1 linear tracking turntable from 1981. I thought about upgrading to a newer TT. I did some research and I asked an expert about what I should do. He said that my Technics is an awesome deck and will last for years still. I love the automatic features of it. The only problem is that it takes a p mount cartridge. And there aren't many options available to upgrade for that.

@hughbetcha436

3 жыл бұрын

Try LP Gear

@jimb2416

3 жыл бұрын

@@hughbetcha436 Lp gear?

The best turntable is one that works. You should compare your Pioneer to a new Music Hall Classic. I keep a new Technics SL-BD22 turntable for 45's. I have had 8 turntables now including an upgraded Rega Planar 2. My U-turn Orbit Plus with gimbal tonearm 2 sounds great with the Ortofon Red. I also have it sitting on an Auralex isolation platform, have added the 3M dampening kit, a Little Ben wieght and Evergreen cables.. My noise level is very low.

All the audio gear I bought brand new are now considered vintage but that's a bit of a scary thought. But seriously, the Orbit Plus seems to have the drive system inherited from the SEE Revolver, but without its split plinth system and a moderately decent tone arm. I have a suspicion that the set-up of the tone arm on this Orbit Plus could have been better, I still have a stack of test records including those for setting the tone arm to a very high degree of accuracy, and both my Revolver and AR are decent performers; sure enough I could get better performance, but the level of improvement would not justify the additional expenditure.

No he probado más que la Pioneer PL 516 y una Technics SL D3 DD. De los años 70, impecables ambas automáticas, son una joya.

I like thew Pioneer PL-540 better. It reminds me so much of a DJ turntable.

For my money there’s no contest! Vintage is the way to go!

@jogmas12

4 жыл бұрын

Richard Morgan you have to pay more today to match the quality of yesterday

@mjoelnir58

4 жыл бұрын

@@jogmas12 Much more that is.

I had a PL 530 back in the late 70’s. I wish I had it back.

No doubt, vintage is better when we talk value for money !

I personally love new and vintage, but strictly talking budget, if you're looking to stay at $250 or less...I think (more times than not) you will get much more bang for your buck with vintage.

At 0:35, more weight *does not* mean less vibration, it merely means that the heavier plinth will vibrate at a lower frequency than the lighter one. Having worked on numerous older Pioneer turntables, I can also tell you that the Pioneer plinth is probably made out of particle board, and it's channeled and routed to hold the internal mechanisms and circuitry; but I will guess that the Orbit turntables' plinth is probably made of Medite, which is much finer grained and less resonant, plus the Orbit plinth is likely to be mostly solid with mimimal routering or channeling, so again, likely to be less resonant. (Just as a hollow-body guitar is more resonant than a solid body guitar).

Pioneer Pl-400. Running through a Pioneer Sx 780 and Dynacos. Love my set up!

@bigsmoke8571

3 жыл бұрын

Miles better than the crappy stripped down projects and regas

I found a Pioneer pl-71 for $300. I don’t know much about turntables but I might buy it.

Vintage Turntable hands down!!!

Bought my Technics SL-1300 in 1976 for $150 and it still runs perfectly. The only maintenance that I've done is to take the platter off and re-lube the shaft one time in 44 years and that was because the speed was difficult to set properly. I have three cartridges: Audio Technica AT SA15, a Grace moving coil, and a Signet and they are all like new as well. I clean my records before each play. It's just a matter of taking good care of good equipment.

@AbbieHoffmansGhost

5 жыл бұрын

@Mong man I don't think that you know the turntable and it's maintenance schedule or when that re-lube was done. I didn't say that I waited 44 years to lube the shaft I said that it was done once in 44 years. It was and is maintained according to the owners manual which I still have and use. Do you have a Technics SL-1300? Didn't think so.

@AbbieHoffmansGhost

5 жыл бұрын

@Mong man You truly have no idea what you're talking about. The oil I use is the oil that the manufacturer supplies so there's one false assumption. Then the fact that you can't even get the turntable model right after it is stated more than once--well, there's that. Then the fact that you buy turntables that need modding--so, kid, give up you lose.

I had a Technics 1700Mk2 which I loved dearly. Unfortunately some idiot broke in and stole it along with the amp. I have since been through no more than 5x old generation turntables looking to replace the Technics. I also looked at new stuff and ALL fell horribly short. I ended up with a Marantz 6320 with an SME 3009 "non improved" tonearm. I have found my dream replacement turntable. I miss the auto function of the 1700 (basically a 1200 with an auto function) but I now sleep very comfortably at night. If buying new I firmly believe I would have to spend really BIG $$$'s to get any where near the Marantz (or Technics)

good vintage is better than the trash new ones

Better measurements don't always translate into better sound quality.

I have the same 2 turntables. But find the U-TURN Orbit sounds much better. Both even have the same Cartridge. Ortofon 2M Blue. BTW the Orbit has a ground internal within the cable. Accordingly my decibel meter also showed the Orbit slightly quieter.

Direct drive turntables are always thicker since the motor is located underneath the platter and belt drive is located on the side.often the thickness is misleading since most of the body is hollow for components.Direct drives were sold at higher prices for being more durable and repairable at most service centers.Those service centers are now gone.

@cirrus1964

2 жыл бұрын

Untrue, Luxman's PD series are slim, all of them.

I paid $30 for my 1975 Sanyo tp1010. Sounds nicer than my $300 audio technica.

Vintage all the way...back in the day they didn't cut Coners like they do in today's market it's not about how good they can make it it's about how cheap they can make it!!! I'm using nothing but vintage I have a adcom GAF 555 and my preamp is a 1972 marantz 2270 and there's nothing on the market today that can sound as good unless you spend Thousand of dollars I have some of my friends who have paid a lot of money on nothing but Highp my vintage kills there big money systems and it bothers them and I'm sorry they feel that way!!! Again back in the day it was about how good they could billed a amp or turntable now it's about how cheap they can billed it and how much more money they can make on it!!!! I'm just saying....enjoy the music

@wolfman007zz

5 жыл бұрын

Inflation with electronics doesn’t work that way. How much inflation do you see now? A $300 receiver now is about the same as a $150 receiver was back then. Same for speakers and turntables.

@jogmas12

5 жыл бұрын

Andrew Crain you wrong on several front namely there are still companies out there, perhaps no longer Sony, that still produce quality turntables.

@LTDusersince99

4 жыл бұрын

@@wolfman007zz , I think not for turntables, since there's a lot more mechanical parts in it than receivers. it didn't evolve as much as electronics and amps. but that's just my opinion

The orbit more closely satisfies the original conceit behind exposed workings of record players

Great comparison test which I wholly agree with. I own a 1981 rather rare Technics SL1610mk2 quartz. Which not only sounds wonderful, looks fabulous and still works perfectly but is also built like a tank! I bought it around 2008 before the recent vinyl resurgence had started. However There are some really decent TT's available new such as the Rega Planar 1. The problem with trying to buy a quality vintage Japanese direct drive TT second hand on Ebay for example is everyone and his brother wants one these days!!! So the bidding 'battles' can be ridiculous and either hideously expensive or very disappointing when you are outbid at the last second. I know this from experience here in the UK and have watched bidding battles to the last moment. 1 lucky winner and dozens of disappointed others.

Had Dual 1229 fully restored - tonearm cables, steuerpimpel, motor oiled and cleaned. Bought Rega P3 and it sounded much better even stock. Though I miss the looks and the auto function.

@terrywho22

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting. Which cartridge(s) and phono preamp are you using? The P3 is probably the best bang for the buck table available, but I'm a bit surprised you found that it sounded "much" better than a fully restored 1229. Cheers!

@miharoskar

2 жыл бұрын

@@terrywho22 I've used VM540ML on both. Stock P3 sounds lighter, you can hear more detail, instruments sound more alive, but stock it has less PRAT than 1229. Modding P3, brought more dynamics, detail and PRAT becouse of better W&F. I've used ART phono pre II and phono stage of Sansui alpha amp. ART sounds dull compared to Sansui. To conclude I wouldn't buy P3 if I haven't had intention to do the mods and satisfy my tinkering needs. Not worth 5x the price I paid for Dual.

@terrywho22

2 жыл бұрын

@@miharoskar Yes, a good belt drive does sound lighter (faster?) and presents more detail to my ears as well. But I feel the idler lets you hear a bit deeper into the mix and has a more even presentation overall. I've never really figured out what the Brits mean by Pace, Rhythm and Timing (PRaT), but if it's referring to drive and transient attack, I agree the 1229 is great with regards to that. Thanks for the reply and your observations are very interesting.

My Technics SL-5100 destroys almost any new turntable under $1000 (US). It has the motor and tonearm from the Sl-1200 mk2 in a different plinth. I will gladly put it up against any of these new popular belt drives you see the reviewers raving about. Plus it was only $240 in prime condition! Less than the AT-LP120 is new and so much better than it could ever dream of being.

Had the same deck, paired with a new Yamaha amp, some large floor standing speakers. It was lacking. Hated the sound. In the end, after some research, I Went for a Yamaha YP700 record deck.. Paid £250 for it. Made in 1972, it has a floating platter. The same features yours has. Goldring cartridge and needle. Played through a 1976 Yamaha CR620 amp, set of KEF Coda 1's. Its 1970's mid-fi. Total cost around 600 UK pounds. It just sounds correct. My vinyl sounds alive. Very happy with the overall sound and performance. I will not be buying new again.

The only bad thing about vintage turntables is they are in such short supply now and prices have crept up. They do need to be properly checked over and serviced though as they are thirty years old plus. They still knock spots off some of these cheaper newer models .