I appreciate your sentiment but you said a lot of nonsense to try to get your point across. The point of action games is absolutely not to spam. That's what people who dont know how to play do. Also turn-based fights are just a dissonant to the plot as action is. Gameplay and plot dont always match up and thats ok.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

This made me laugh, in a good way. You are right, action games do require finesse - rarely can you hammer away. XVI looks like spam more specifically, using abilities on cooldown. No real thought other than dodging (which doesn't seem to be tactical, can dodge even if attacking) and alternating attack and magic. I know the accessibility rings are optional and I'm hoping they're the perfect answer rather than having an easy mode.

@aroccoification

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion personally id rather it just be a turn based game but if square is determined to pull an RE4-6 and pretend they make action games then im glad theyre aware that dante is the grandaddy of all 3d action. At least theyre looking in the right direction for action if they're going to abandon what makes a final fantasy game. Great video btw

@vagiasthanasis

Жыл бұрын

I agree. Lots of nonesense indeed

@lejen1925

Жыл бұрын

@@vagiasthanasis This comment has Ignis vibes indeed.

@Darkernorakeln

Жыл бұрын

This will be a spam game though, did you know the game has easy mode acessories, BUT it has absolutely no harder mode, or content? Their solution was a shitty arcade leaderboard LMAO. DMC this aint buddy. Its DMC for casuals ONLY.

Persona 5 alone DID NOT sold 8 million It was the base game with 3 million and Royal with 3,3 or so, the rest is made up by strikers and dancing FF7R sold 5 Million in it's first 3 months while beeing only on Playstation, compared to P5 which released in 2017 and is now available on every console Just for clarification

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Excellent clarification on the Persona sales. VII remake has Intergrade as a parallel to Royal but nothing to compare for Dancing and Strikers. We don't have numbers for Intergrade either though. We may find out how much Sony is paying for exclusivity of VII and XVI as a bonus from the Activision proceedings very shortly so that may shed some light on what's going on with VII Remake success. With sales figures, I always view that silence means its bad news. They came out and stated VII original passed 14.1 million so we know they like talking about it.

@denzelvilliers

Жыл бұрын

​@@Arkaledion FFVIIR doesn't have Intergrade in Parallel to Royal, Intergrade it's an Expansiom pack sold individually if you already got the game, Royal it's not, if you already purchased Persona 5 before you must buy the Royal Edition again to play the Extra content.

@djlu3011

Жыл бұрын

To be fair...p5 doesn't have the name that final fantasy have. Let alone FF7 of all FF. I do think P5 is the better game.

@akiinmoonlight79

Жыл бұрын

@@djlu3011 random comparison: P5 and Nier automata both released the same year and became two instant classics and masterpieces, both niche af now DO have a great name and brand behind them, so after all that hype and years of beeing released it's no "to be fair" because the main stream praises these games like they are some kind of holy grail FF7R is still a beautyful game and probably my fave jrpg of all time - idk i hope i could get my point cross, i'm tired af rn and i'm going to sleep 💀💕

@djlu3011

Жыл бұрын

@@akiinmoonlight79 no matter what kind of cult following P5 has...I don't think anything will ever top the cult following final fantasy 7 will have. Not to mention ff7 is already an established name with the reputation before the remake. It's going to be hard for P5 or anything for that matter to compete with a remake of an already classic game that had been teased for over 10 years.

tbh i completely understand. though playing most of the FF series , my favorites really are only 7 and 8, with 10 as an exception. Though i enjoyed turn based combat, I think the story for me will always take precedent in these games. Action or Turn based, either way, just give me a good story. something they've been lacking as of late for mainline entries. Excited for XVI

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I'm excited for XVI as well, I think that's a large part of why I'm paying so much attention to it. I really, really want it to be amazing. It is the first mainline entry since XI that hasn't had huge development woes so I'm hoping that follows through into the end result.

@YeageristsTatakae

Жыл бұрын

For me it was VII, X, and XV, I’m hoping XVI will remember, yeah combat and gameplay are great but I think the majority of FF fans are looking for is that amazing storyline that sadly is kind of hit or miss in most of their titles.

@heyjeySigma

Жыл бұрын

ff 7 , 8 and 10 enjoyer?? you sir have excellent taste. thats how it should be. Although ff13 is actually enjoyable with great music great graphics and solid gameplay too.. only held back by story and linear maps mostly

@lazaroskarmaniolas7410

Жыл бұрын

If that's the case, you'll love FF6.

@blankx15

Жыл бұрын

No love for FF9 story is better than 7 in my opinion.

The duality of this video is really interesting. For every thought provoking sentiment that's set-up, You boil it down to reductionism. I believe there is a lot of coherency In this perspective. But there is a lot of Strawmanning, as well. Nonetheless, thank you. It's given me quite a lot to think about.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I appreciate the level criticism, it's my first attempt at this type of thing so hopefully I can refine the process in the future.

@denizesen1995

Жыл бұрын

I definitely agree this. Maybe this is not a problem but a new way for video essays, your tone just left me with a weird feeling, where most of my thought provoked, ff is dead sentence echoed through my brain, I don't know how to feel about this. Either way, there is much that you researched about this so, cudos to your work.

I think this video is an interesting perspective, but it’s based on a understanding of what final fantasy and RPGs have been in the past. “RPGs do this, character action games do that, where one excels in this, the other excels in that”. It’s centred around this rigid expectation of what final fantasy “should be” even though there has never been such a restriction placed internally by dev teams of past and present, but more importantly for the purpose of this video I have to wonder why that is important at all? Shouldn’t the primary purpose a game should have is to be compelling to play? The combat, the party dynamics, the plot beats, the music and tone etc. are never really exempt from scrutiny but I really do take umbrage with judging things based on what they are categorised as. It’s the one thing that really hit me with the Yoshi-P interviews is that he doesn’t like the word “JRPG” for a variety of reasons, but one of them being that it rigidly compartmentalises what they do as creators and fit it into this JRPG “box”. They really never think of it like making this specific sub-category of RPG, they’re “just making an RPG” which is vast and allows for many creative ideas and possibilities. This game might be closer to DMC than past FF titles if we are “conventionally” judging it, but just like the game should have justified critique and scrutiny when it comes out, so should the way we think of Final Fantasy, RPGs and games in general. If it is an issue of wanting something that past FF titles have provided but this one doesn’t, then we should maybe look elsewhere (I know you mentioned persona but there’s many other options out there). There should be a difference between fairly judging what something is, instead of ragging on it for something it isn’t.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

It is an interesting possibility that we'll get a new genre bend that really isn't like anything else. After all, that is something Final Fantasy has done plenty of before. XII is always the one that easily communicates this for me. What exactly is it? That's quite a novel question to be able to direct at it without a real answer. Maybe XVI will do this too. The JRPG label being a point of contention I found interesting. Back when the style of game was introduced it was a compliment, then the Japanese for the most part seemed to take for granted their position as market leaders and allowed the west to catch up and it did become a point of derision. I appreciate Yoshi-P says its turning around again, but gaming has always tried to find the best label. What is a metroidvania. What is a roguelite. We know what they are, but do people know why? It gets silly with things like soulslike popping up. You are right though I am judging based upon established conventions, I can't imagine a complete genre buster but hopefully we'll experience one here.

@pneumat

Жыл бұрын

Uhm just no. We see and say something about something because it evolved in the past. And FF evolved in past to "what it was till FF 16", where it already has begun with FF 15. So just no dude. We have the right to call out that FF is dead because IT IS DEAD. DOT. This is just a Devil May Cry within the Final Fantasy Universe. Hell, they don't even try to hide it.

@CrummyCurmudgeon

Жыл бұрын

@@pneumat lol the disruption of FF started more than 2 decades back. When the franchise shifted from Nintendo to Sony platforms, when it went from 2D to 3D, when it from SD to HD - there’s always been the “FF is dead” shouts. So congratulations on being part of the sheep, FF will keep evolving and changing unbound by genre conventions and expectations and y’all can call it “dead”

@natebroadus8474

Жыл бұрын

I'm actually impressed that Yoshi-P has the gonads to stick with his vision and go full action combat. In the NoCut documentary on FFXIV, they mention that one flawed way of thinking at Square=Enix prior to 1.0 was, they had success with FFXI so they didn't feel like they needed to look at what the competition was doing and adapt. You can see that with FFXIV 1.0's archaic design. It was very similar to what they did in FFXI, except MMO tastes had changed drastically in the intervening years. WoW irrevocably changed what people wanted and expected in a MMO, but Square-Enix was too stubborn to acknowledge it, so they launched 1.0 and it failed so miserably, it nearly crippled the brand. It took Yoshi-P, someone who grew up playing western MMO's when they weren't popular in Japan to finally change the approach of FFXIV. I think Square-Enix, again, sees that gaming tastes are changing, but they're too timid to go all in. We'll have to wait and see if this approach pays off as well as it did with FFXIV, but I still respect the hell out of Yoshi-P for having the nads to go all in.

@jaydenb192

Жыл бұрын

​@cfwprophet Both FF and DMC have so many elements to them than just the combat The basic elements of a FF game is like lore expansive world, lots of stories leading to the current events of each game that drive the story The basic elements of a DMC game is a city or area suddenly threatened by a demonic threat with a mastermind (Mostly just Vergil) behind it With FF the characters seem to have a lot of story and reason for who they are in the current events, and have generally a bond with one another DMC has a cast of more simplistic yet Charismatic characters, they don't have much to them but they still do their job of being entertaining So you're telling me, that because they both have combo heavy action combat systems, they're suddenly the same? Doesn't add up. YOu won't catch Clive saying "Jackpot"

The vital core of a good final fantasy game is it’s story I think. Yeah gameplay is also important but the story needs to take you to places, that’s the common denominator for the earlier games. If XVI has a great story, I’ll be happy :)

@baodeus1

Жыл бұрын

I think it compose of mutiple things (if just a story then I mean everything has a story). - fantasy settings (not quite as realistic takes as the western rpg counter part). - their icons (summoning, chocobo, etc..) - battle mechanic (used to be more strategic turn base, but has slowly changes toward more real time action to adapt to the newer generation). I think battle mechanic is probably the most controversial in this aspect. There are groups that doesn't want change and are familiar with the tradition turn base mechanic (did went on for practically most of FF series until recently). Make sense that it could feel like a characteristics of FF, which is understandable. On the other hand, the newer generation prefer more real time combat (less on strategic gameplay) which is also understandable. So it is a fight between the old and the new gamers. Change is imminent so why be bother so much? If it is enjoyable, that's all that matters really. It looks quite good so far imo.

@EliasBunda

Жыл бұрын

@@baodeus1 I’m not bothered though? I’m very very excited for 16. For me personally the story of a final fantasy game is the most important part. Not just a story, a good story. But nevertheless I’m very excited for this one.

@557deadpool

Жыл бұрын

They haven't HAD a good story since 9

@Darkfawfulx

Жыл бұрын

V has a weaker story and is one of the best entries.

@557deadpool

Жыл бұрын

@@Darkfawfulx V literally has the b st story in DMC, tf are you talking about

Let me guess, You have never played FFXIV. That game has all the stuff you complain about and FF14 feels more FF than any FF game that has come out since FF10. Also the gameplay contradicts the story because the dog can do powerful flips and attacks? Do you remember Sephiroth casting Supernova? XD Thats 100% Game Over move. FF games has always had that kind of BS

@nesoukkefka1741

Жыл бұрын

Or if you want an ever more obvious contradiction between gameplay and story, remember in FFIX where Summons could destroy entire town in one attack ? Yeah never saw that in gameplay.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I have played XIV, a fair amount. I like it a whole lot. I have a lot to say about XIV so I started work on a video for it after posting this. That said, I completely understand why there may be a disconnect between my thoughts so far on XVI and that fact, so hopefully I can do it justice. The commentary on the dog was highlighting why it is so powerful in comparison to Cid. We've had dogs before in Final Fantasy (why I slid in the ludicrous Rinoa/Angelo) so it isn't that its a dog itself, it was pointing out that Cid was just aimlessly wandering around in the background whilst Torgal was getting his teeth stuck in. Cid is meant to be second only to Clive, so contradictory because of comparison of the two.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's one of the things I loved about IX actually, that summons were actually acknowledged for the weapons for what they were. It seems daft, but because there were separate battle screens I kind of imagined fights taking place outside of the continuum as well. XII had the weird disconnect because their summons would blow up the moon and then everything would be fine. But XV had Ramuh completely scorch the entire landscape with his attack and it remained for a bit afterwards. I don't care what is powerful in XVI, I'm pointing out the weirdness in the dog being more powerful than Cid, and the answer is because Cid is computer controlled even though he's a dominant.

@nesoukkefka1741

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Kinda BS complain IMO there was always a disconnect between story and gameplay, and IX is one of the worst you have summon destroying towns in story, yet said summons in gameplay does less damage than a guy hitting with his daggers, that's exactly the same disconnect for me, and if I was caring about that then VII and VIII with their summons and some bosses special attacks would get the same complaint. Not mentionning the disconnect in the fact character in story can get badly hurt from gun, sword or sometime just getting punch, while in gameplay they can tank litteral nukes in the face, so gimme a break with that complain XD

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's completely fair, we all have different breaking points for our suspension of disbelief. VIII funnily enough is one of the most grievous offenders as the summons there are central to the plot, but the characters never summon them in the cinematics (for example in the Garden Assault I used in the video). At least with VII the summons aren't really acknowledged insofar as the story or conversation so can come across as a glorified spell.

I'll do my best not to spoil anything. FFxiv in of itself tackles the very issue of power fantasy that you criticize ff16 for having. It does it in a way that not only keeps the main character, you the player, still the strongest in the group. But what it means when you have to carry that weight of expectations and those around you that give you the spiritual strength to continue your road. Let me put in a few things to think about for you. -Not the first person to see ff franchise to have fallen and then played ffxiv to completely change their mind. Gaijin Gumba, a monster hunter channel/youtuber said the same thing as you did. Currently playing endgame ffxiv and his favorite ff game. -Yoshi P is fully aware he has yet to penetrate the core ff fan base with ffxiv. He said this in a ffxiv interview a few years back. So the people playing ffxiv now are most likely new final fantasy fans.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

By having a need for others, Warrior of Light calls upon adventurers. Clive doesn't have that. Kind of what I was circling around, in that there's less exploration, no way Clive can be presented as vulnerable without some cheats. Or having to deal with making a mistake as Ifrit mode and dealing with that most likely. Then being scared to become Ifrit unless Cid is there. I don't think its fallen, I think it straddling the old and new will limit its true potential. It should just be an action game full stop. Most people I've spoken with in XIV have never and would never play another Final Fantasy, most are World of Warcraft dropouts. They came because MMO, not because of anything else. Maybe this will get them in proper, I personally think the number needs to be dropped and an actual full reboot communicated. The conversation around any new game is always "Do I need to play the others", whereas God of War etc barely had that. The number is for the old fans I know, but it can be retired and the new way embraced fully.

@stevenalvarez2924

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Thing people missed on the reboot of GoW was that it kept the story of GoW but completely changed the game play. There is still a vocal community in GoW that see Kratos as weak and pathetic from the change to the 3rd person view

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I forgot to say, thank you for the mention of Gaijin. I'm going to have a watch of him later. Always good to have new recommendations. Kept the story so fans would get more of a payoff than new converts, but not necessary. You know the part I'm talking about in particular. Interesting take, on where the power fantasy has gone in reverse and the hero became more human.

@stevenalvarez2924

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Sorry, Gaijin Hunter* I was so busy in the morning I mixed my Gaijin named youtubers. Hahaha

@Darkernorakeln

Жыл бұрын

Yeah so they chase character action fans? Do you even know the sales of Character action games? Guess what reality is they review extremely well, they are beloved, but THEY DONT SELL, DMC5 is he best one argueably and it has sad sales numbers. Compare with other jrpg franchise sales that keep going up CONSTANTLY in all those franchises while it took 7 years for FF15 to break even!(real info, they said it needs 10 million units to break even, we hit 10 million in december...)

Peoples attachments to franchises are strange and stifling to the industry. The only reason franchises exist in the first place is either to make more money off of an existing property, or because the creator wishes it so, possibly to continue an existing narrative like Mass Effect for example. The main motivator behind most AAA games is money, and true artistic expression and creativity take a backseat. This is the reality of the industry and devs will happily disregard any artistic integrity or an established userbase in favor of a decision that makes more money. Even if the AAA industry were to be primarily motivated by fun and creativity, developers don't owe fans anything, especially in such a case as it could conflict with their vision. Oftentimes the best games are created from a developers own vision of what they personally find cool or enjoyable, and listening to fans too much could compromise that vision. However this isn't to say the only worthwhile games are ones that are new and innovative. It's totally possible to take industry standards or conventions (which again, aren't inherently bad) and turn them into something new and fresh. Action combat refers to so many different styles of action games that it's disingenuous to generalize them when being critical of FFXVI. (Not saying you're doing this, there's a lot of ignorant discourse online as to FFXVI being a generic action game.) While everyone has their blind spots and I could be wrong, I'm pretty aware of the state of the industry and what's out there, and there's nothing exactly like FFXVI. A character action game with a solid story, rpg progression and actual large world exploration. (the quality of the game is yet to be seen of course but I doubt it'll be less than competent) Dragon's Dogma is the only game I can think of that gets close to this but the combat is pretty simple. I love Final Fantasy, I didn't grow up playing it but I got into the series around 2014 with XIV and I've played and enjoyed most other mainline entries. Those games exist and won't go anywhere, and if I want to play a story-focused turn-based rpg I have many options. Whatever FF does now, I only hope it's fun, that's it. Having that mindset lets me enjoy video games way more. There is no rule that it has to adhere to anything, and the dev's don't owe us.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I think attachments form because because you have an established foundation with it. It isn't wrong to have expectations of something. My expectations are solely story based, I don't really get into my favourite games in the series as that would be for the future, but XII & XIV would be mine. Neither of those are turn based. Regarding money, 100% agree, I talk about VII Remake's turn based offering still not being profitable in spite of fans begging for it, at the end of the chapter "Fresh Exciting Battle System" as to why XVI goes further into action. No need to watch it just for that, that's the gist. It's not the fact that it's an action game that I have an issue with honestly, it's the nature of Clive's power level and what that means for the story at large (it's already contradictory within itself based upon what we've been shown). I guess because the main discourse around the game is simply "it's not turn based" I think people are assuming that's my angle as well, but I don't ever have an issue with it being action, aside from it being that it's a straight lift and shift from another franchise.

I'm not sure I agree with the party member investment point. There are plenty of games out there where you're invested in non player characters, the best example of this that I can think of off the top of my head is RDR2, but also in FF15 pre-DLC where you could only control Noctis... I still felt attached to the other party members (though this was limited by FF15s lack of storytelling rather than the party system). You don't have to control a character to be invested in their development imo.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I didn't mean it to come across as you can't attach to any characters you don't control - you attach differently. Generally speaking, people attach to characters more if they have control over their journey. An example I can use is The Last of Us 1 versus part 2. People develop bias for a character that they controlled. They feel they nurtured. It's different. Removing that removes possibilities. I'm also not saying its a guaranteed success if you control them.

@fredy2041

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Its the story more than than building the character.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@@fredy2041 What is?

There needs to be an option to turn damage numbers off. It exists in nioh 2 and should be in be in all action rpgs. Skill above all else. Small numbers don't matter if you're good enough to win anyway.

@VeganKebabDoRuky

Жыл бұрын

I'm sure there will be, but I will not turn them off, I love big number going up!

@DestroyTheWokeBrainrot

Жыл бұрын

Yup!

I'm just in it for the story and journey. Yeah, sure, I prefer turn-base, but I'll just go easy mode and slide on the casual accessories. No interest in the action but a lot of people are and that broader audience is what they wish to capture. They gotta do what they gotta do and I hope it works.

@johnwong5317

Жыл бұрын

It's also depend on your mood as well. I myself play Guild Wars 2 for example, I have 2 classes and if I want a piano warrior, I'll play it but it gets your hands tire fast from spamming all the buttons. However, if I am too lazy, I use a class that only need a few buttons and prolong my enjoyment. The same with FF16, if you just want to grind, use accessories and then take some off if you are in story instances.

@thatitalianlameguy2235

Жыл бұрын

Easy mode? Damn you suck

11:11- 11:15 As someone who's played said action games that only works on minor enemies. In boss fights you have to pay attention to attack patterns and exploit any weaknesses you can find. Failure to do so will result in numerous defeats... And given that the guy who worked on the combat for this worked on Devil May Cry, boss fights in FFXVI might be as much of a b*tch as prior Final Fantasy titles. Meaning swinging with reckless abandon won't save ya... Strategy's gonna be a definite must.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Ye I fluffed on that line, I was going for something like actions per minute but went the wrong way. I don't know about XVI not being spam though, that still needs to be desired. Evolution doesn't necessarily mean complexity.

Final fantasy will be whatever it needs to be to exist...

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully what it thinks it needs to be aligns with what fans want from it.

@NRDaddysgameroom

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion it will be...its looking to be something i want.and ive played and finished them àll.

Although you have a few valid points (such as in regards of party removal) I can't help it but feel like you're a bit biased on your take. Might be a bit your way of presenting the different arguments, but might also be my general disagreement. I watched the video 2 times and I still struggled to get your main point. You talk about the main characters exaggerated strength and what it means for the plot, then you take take FFXIII1-3 as a comparison and where I was certain you'd refer to Lightnings arc (developing from a regular soldier who learns to rely on the party, yet eventualy evolves into a solo goddess)... well, you totaly miss this aspect and decide instead to transfer into talking about FFXIII's graphics and it's linearity being due to money-related issues... which is not only one of the weakest arguments one could've stated in regards of FFXIII's linearity, but also just plain irrelevant to the videos main topic. I think SE as a company is doing an excellent job at one specific thing. Yes, not every battle system has been a success. But they've never been afraid of trying to bring something new into the mix. As you said, after FFX, they've been trying to move away from turn-based systems, while not throwing it all out of the window and becoming "one more action rpg producer". They've got the budget and the confidence to try and I'm positive they will eventualy find a way to satisfy both old-school and new gen players, even though time will eventualy favor more and more the 2nd group. Might not have been XIII, might not be XVI, but eventualy. And I'd personaly much rather have that than some copy-pasta. There's been giant concepts around, most noticeable Fabula Novula Chrystalis, which you could've adressed. Ideas that fit into most of your points, ideas that have been S+ in theory but C- in praxis. Thus, I can't help but feel like you're mostly just ranting about your individual impression on what we know so far about FFXVI, yet not a lot of research has been made to back up your points. Still, much love and its been entertaining to hear your take on these topics.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Excellent comment regarding Lightning's power creep. Funnily enough that's one of the reasons I never got around to XIII-3. You're right that would have been perfect but it simply didn't enter my mind. Honestly, some great counterpoints throughout this comment, I haven't got anything to say against individual points as they've all got some truth to them I've definitely got some improvements to think about for my next video. Thank you for taking the time in providing them.

@tomasfong40

Жыл бұрын

One of the reasons im not too upset over ff going action is that with Octopath, Bravely Default, and Dragon Quest we still have a bunch of turn based games. I still think FF10 is one of the best renditions of turn based combat though

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Right there with you, X is the turn based system perfected as far as I'm concerned.

Nice analysis, I think you put a lot of what others are thinking concisely. The only thing I would push back on is some of the narrative analysis. I'm not so quite sure that Clive's guests will have meaningless/insignificant roles in the story. If we were to powerscale, then yes you can find inconsistencies...but that exists in some older FF games that had party systems. I would prefer a party, so I get you there, but I think an event like Jill getting kidnapped/enslaved will still have an emotional impact even though she's not a party member. Also, where do you think the line of Donut vs Cheesecake is? Do you still consider FF7R to be a cheesecake.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I appreciate that. Excellent point regarding Jill, I'm hoping Clive's teenage years will have a significant position in the story. Maybe not even play teenage years part 1 then adult years part 2, but kind of leap frogging each other. I could imagine a format where we're introduced to people in teenage years, then play out adult years as a mix between retellings and present day effects. VII Remake is still firmly a cheesecake in my mind, it is more action slanted, but nothing of the game is in service to it. You could replace combat in Remake with any other format and nothing would change. Change the combat in XVI and it would clash with the story beats. At least, how it appears to me at this moment in time. If you kept the story of DMC3 exactly as it was and shifted it to an RPG, it would completely break down. It knows what it is and has tried to focus on that. DMC4 broke story wise as the character's personality you played didn't make sense with what he was doing. He had a personality transplant in 5 and now everyone loves him. V is a good example of introducing a personality with his gameplay perfectly, V is thoughtful, considered, brooding, melancholy. His gameplay matches completely. If in his gameplay he was running on the walls and sticking his finger up it would jar. If in his story scenes he was hyper it would jar.

@drew1771

Жыл бұрын

I think if you look at the most recent video game clips, it is unquestionable that Clive is carrying the “party” - he is the most mobile and powerful on screen.

I know FFXV was controversial…. But damnit I loved it. It was a buddy road trip game fighting monsters. It was down to earth, simple and straightforward. Chill and not so flashy at all… It’s a night out with the guys, It reminds me of some of my best moments in life with my buddies

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I'm not ashamed to admit, the ending of XV had me tearing up. I played it when everything was mostly in it fortunately.

@Coco111s2

Жыл бұрын

I really liked ff15 as a game, but as a final fantasy it felt like it was missing something. The combat moving away from turn based makss it feel a bit like button mashing and lacking depth, same with the side content that failed to hold attention and wasnt intricately weaved into the world. The fishing was okay but that and hunts kinda just felt like go here then go there and repeat. And i miss treasure chests, not just a somewhat hard to see orb that renders in only when you get close. Maybe im just trying to chase the high of the 9 and 10 era that made me fall in love with final fantasy and nothing will ever be good enough... but i hope to be proven wrong

@koolkiwidude3820

Жыл бұрын

@@Coco111s2 you are totally correct when saying “chasing the high of 9-10” 15 was my first introduction into final fantasy so at first I didn’t know what was missing, but I did got back and play FF7 which I was told is a true Final Fantasy. The combat of 15 definitely needed work, but with the Wait Mode added to the game I see what they were trying to do. Make it new yet keep it classic. It was a gamble of a game… but I believe Square is onto something here. Royal playing games is what they are strong at

@but_iWantedTo_speakGerman

Жыл бұрын

It wasn’t controversial, it was genuinely bad

@but_iWantedTo_speakGerman

Жыл бұрын

@@koolkiwidude3820 8 was good, you just suck ay thinking with your low IQ white brain

I don’t personally understand seeing the recent FF16 gameplay videos and not get stupidly hyped. This is exactly what FF should be in the modern age.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Gameplay does look good, in fact its incredibly unlikely for it to be bad seeing as we've played this game before. It's tried and true. Its whether the gameplay has eroded what else made the games special.

It's not to discredit your opinion, just... It feels like you've extrapolated so much from a simple demo of gameplay. Demos are almost never representative of a final narrative. It is just a slice showing you why you should be interested, give you some questions, and let you feel out the gameplay. The whole "Ifrit beats Garuda, Garuda beats Ramuh, Ramuh beats Ifrit" stuff doesn't need to make sense to us right now. Not to say it doesn't - the simple story reason could be "Ifrit is more worn out from fighting a battle with Garuda" .........or the simple fact that we literally have not seen how the rest of the cutscene plays out because it fades to black. You could say the same exact thing about how in every instance in FFIX where Beatrix is an enemy, she basically one shots the party. Then the party goes on to beat Kuja. Does that mean Beatrix is stronger than Kuja? Or Ozma? Or the last boss in the story? The logic falls apart fast. Regardless, to call the combat a "DMC clone" is also disingenuous. DMC does not have limit breaks. DMC does not have abilities with a cooldown timer. DMC doesn't have elemental resistances. We have barely been shown combat in most of the trailers, and the glimpse we got recently isn't a full showcase of even half the Eikons we get, or the upgrade systems we'll have. There's a lot we don't know, and though the combat is heavily inspired by DMC of course, it's not fair to say it doesn't have an identity of its own. Also where do you get that all side content will "reuse main game assets"?

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Completely agree. There may be a huge chunk that shows how that little triangle ties up and I could eventually be made to have worried over nothing. I hope that's the end result. Regarding Beatrix, I would disagree there because it wasn't back to back. The party grew in power beyond their engagements with her. They fought in different times. How the fights were presented to us in this presentation for XVI were that they went from one to the other in succession. DMC has Devil Trigger which Limit Break has become here. Completely agree on not seeing the whole depth of progression of combat, we don't know whether they'll be any gamechangers in that department. That was me extrapolating from the interviews stating that all areas in the game are connected with the main story. It is entirely possible that there will be something new, but I feel they would have specifically said that whilst being specific about the locations as reassurance. It is me drawing a conclusion from familiar language. Doesn't mean it won't be fun and XIV has examples where the same monster can have additional moves to make it feel new.

@Darkernorakeln

Жыл бұрын

Guy from the future here, he was entirely correct, and not just the demo but every word from the producer about the game.

I think this problem could be fixed by simply having a party of 4 where each character acts like a weapon/style so you still rely on a full party of characters that you tag between to access different parts of a larger shared moveset.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's the thing that's the biggest shame, you could have the Dominants of Cid and Jill be party members and retain their skills. Clive could still be a jack of all trades, but the specialists have more moves in their arsenal that Clive can't reach. Like how a red mage would borrow from white and black magic, but doesn't reach the same height.

@dynamiczero

Жыл бұрын

That would be just a worse Genshin Impact with an FF overlay

@eseph9899

Жыл бұрын

@@dynamiczero not if the combat is dmc quality. Genshin and dmc play nothing alike. All I'm suggesting is using the dmc style and weapon switching mechanic implemented as different party members hot swapping mid combo to get some cool moveset variety

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@@dynamiczero I don't see how - think more 3d Marvel Vs Capcom except the assists are out and about and swapping brings them over to your location

the video ending exactly at 16:00 is pretty cool

Isn't it too early to say an unreleased game is dead just because it's no longer a TB game? I'm a long time fan for over 20 years, played all ff games, still have them in my library after all these years and yet I have never been more excited for this one. I don't think all fans have the same idea of what makes a FF game, a FF game. To me personally, it's the plot, character, the narrative and lore. While i do love the TB mechanics, i don't think that's what makes the ff games unique. Sure they've pioneered the genre, but we already have too many TB games now that are way more advanced than any FF game. TB is no longer a ff's staple and it never really was. Even if square Enix decided to continue the tradition of making 16 as TB once again, it would never be the same as how we got from the classics.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Nowhere did I say it was dead (edit: although I appreciate the phrase at the end may be lost in translation, it's a play on "The King is dead, long live the King", you can mourn the death but wish well for the next at the same time). Nothing I said was about it not being turn based. Once upon a time turn based was Squaresoft's staple, but as soon as it became Square Enix they've been getting further and further away from turn based. Dragon Quest I think is the game they're leaving for that sector now.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

This is what winds me up, not everything is for everyone and targeting something directly isn't bad. Not everyone likes Marmite but they don't add sugar to it to appeal to people with a sweet tooth. If Dragon Quest, the RPG that brings Japan to a standstill on release abandons what appeals to its Japanese fanbase to court the supposed wider audience that would be a travesty.

Persona 5 released in 2016, did a re-release with the royal edition you could not upgrade to, and is now available on every console and pc. FF7R was released in 2020, had a rerelease you could upgrade to, and as of now is not available on Microsoft or Nintendo consoles. You cannot compare the sales of these two games.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Persona was merely stating that there is a market, but acknowledging that Final Fantasy may not be able to appeal to the same one. Exclusivity obviously comes with its own income behind the scenes, but PS4 was the home of the original Final Fantasy VII and was the market leader in terms of consoles in homes. Final Fantasy is more of a household name whereas Persona isn't. Persona 5 performance is greater than all of the prior Persona entries put together so its definitely in its growth stage. There are some discussion points to have. You are right though, there's too many variables to compare like for like, but there's some things to observe in the details.

@Darkernorakeln

Жыл бұрын

You can compare budgets though :P Which do you think was the bigger sucess huh? the one on a small AA budget that sold 8 million, or the one that cost 5 years to make on an AAA budget from a studio famous for overspending.

@ghostofhallownest5300

Жыл бұрын

@@Darkernorakeln I mean persona 5 base game been out for years and is multiplat. Ff7 remake been out in last time and has it almost eclipsed so yeah it’s obvious that persona is in a growth stage here. 3.5 million in three days over 5 milion in august. Upgrade and lifetime sales of this game will be much higher as part 2 is coming.

Great video. Great skills in your editing!❤ Subbed

I don't know if I understood what you said about the dissonance between the combat and the plot right, but at least in my experience, fights in previous games like FF7 and FF8 had these kind of "problems" too, specially in 8 where you could have Squall LV70 while the other party members where LV20-30, in cases like this, fighting guys like Seifer could take you less than 5 turns, clashing against all the hype pre-boss fight.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right. This video isn't meant to insinuate that all of the other games are without fault, they all have their own quirks. I do plan to take deep dives into the whole series honestly, I have a lot to say about all of them.

@yongquanwu3921

Жыл бұрын

1) From monster scaling a lvl 70 squall = a lvl 70 seifer, battle doesnt get much easier than lv30 squall 2) why is a squall lvl 70 while the rest are 20-30 ? 3) Taking less turns to beat a boss is essentially a major cheesecake piece JRPG where a player builds the character and party well FF8 have its fair share of gamplay annoyance (junction system) but its quick time action like rinoa's limit break makes more sense in gameplay depth than mash one button for everything.

@nesoukkefka1741

Жыл бұрын

​@@yongquanwu3921 Wrong for point 1, most storyline bosses actually have a LV limit they cannot exceed, Seifer in his first fight for instance cannot go higher than LV20, LV31 for his second fight, 32 for his third and LV45 for his last fight, so you can actually be overlevel compare to the bosses during the story, only optionnal bosses actually scale all the way up to LV100.

The series needs to evolve, I grew up with the series since 8 in 1999 but nothing can stay the same forever. The survival of the series depends on drawing in a newer & younger generation and while I hated XV for being a poorly made game that felt like it lacked depth in about every area I can say that I won't have the same negative opinion with XVI most likely. Turn based won't disappear as spinoff titles will keep them alive like World of Final Fantasy & Bravery Default.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I think Final Fantasy is a victim of the inflation of spending on game development. The thing that will be the disaster is if XVI does sell gangbusters and is excellent but because Square can't keep a lid on things it will perform "worse than expected"

Of course I miss the old days of turn-based rpgs set in a fable fantasy world with medieval elements but unfortunately change is inevitable. We still have the classics and with games like Persona 5, Dragon Quest IX and I Am Setsuna for instance we also get new adventures with our familiar and loved formula. Well crafted and informative video. Thanks a lot! 🙌☘🦉

@takagimorisato9021

Жыл бұрын

Yall still have modern renditions of that coming out every fucking month of every fucking year since it was even possible to make a thing.

Glad you seem to know the entire story of FFXVI before it releases. We do know from what they have shared with us that Clive starts out weak and grows in power from the collecting of Eikons. So there is a lot of room for a good story in that. He doesn't just start out as Ifrit. If you were paying attention you would know that it even seems like Clive may be the one who killed his own brother. Let's wait and see what the story actually is before just saying it's bad.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Don't get me wrong, I don't know every minute detail but you can see some of the major beats. The thing is, I would absolutely love to be completely wrong. That would be the best result. I'm not so sure on the Clive killing Joshua, unless the Bahamut Eikon has the power of time/space and sends an alternate Clive/Ifrit back to that point. They've revealed every other Eikon's powers but Bahamut's, which makes me think it has a central presence. Josh has Phoenix though, the phoenix schtick is that they are immortal.

@Jay-mx5ky

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion We have seen limit break used in one way, which is Semi Prime and that's close to Devil Trigger. But we've also seen other special moves, specifically in the Revenge trailer that are much more spectacular than regular moves that could be tied to limit break as well, and we've additionally seen 2 vs 3 bars of lb, which could probably mean certain abilities might take up certain amounts of gauge. I do agree Devil Trigger ≈ Semi Prime, I'm just saying that limit break often also has different abilities attached to it in most FF games, and we probably haven't seen the full extent of what you can do with the bar yet. We are on the same page about that tho, just thought I should mention that. I could see them reusing areas for the "arcade mode" they're going for, but what I got from that was that there will probably be familiar areas but with different types of enemies and unique enemies, a la FF7R's VR mode or Corneo Coliseum maybe? I agree they gotta be a bit clearer on that, but I can't imagine they'd only reuse assets for the side content. They did also mention hunts and a hunt board, which I would imagine utilizes off-the-beaten-path areas, but I guess we can't figure that out until we get hands on either because they really haven't shown much exploration at all.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's a great point. Each Eikon could potentially have a different effect from expending the bar. They could have some huge surprises (like what appears to be Zantetsuken). A full bar could be the way we see the traditional summon moves like Judgment Bolt and Diamond Dust on a Clive size level. I am most interested in how the arcade mode will work actually, will that auto skip all of the cutscenes for example? Start us with all powers? It's such a weird thing to hear is in an RPG so it's difficult to imagine what it looks like. You're right with potential for off the beaten path things, it's the absence of talking on that type of thing that causes concern.

@blackmanwithcomputer

Жыл бұрын

​@@Arkaledion YoshiP said he was mainly focused on combat and what made 16 different. He said the next showcase would be about exploration and RPG mechanics.

@Jay-mx5ky

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion I totally get you on that last point, it feels like we've seen a lot and nothing at all at the same time. It's a bit of a blessing and a curse, I feel like games like KH3 had been completely spoiled before they were released with very few surprises in trailers.

I feel like FF16 won't neccessarilly itch my JRPG scratch, like the older games, but I think it will still be a great final fantasy and I can enjoy it as an action game. theres a good chance it could be tons of fun with a great story. I absolutely cannot wait for June.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Right there with you, fingers crossed for this being good - but now I have to find another franchise to satisfy what I used to rely on this one for.

@TheDwagonHD

Жыл бұрын

​@@Arkaledion ive heard good things about octopath traveler. And its a turnbased game. You mightve already played it, idk. As im not a viewer of yours. Iirc its also published by squeenix?

While I can understand what you're saying about the combat being too similar to DMC and 'disconnected' from the story, personally as one of those 'new' generation of gamers I don't really mind if the combat doesn't take full regard of the story. Considering that this is indeed a 'Final Fantasy' game I have faith that the overall story will be as epic and proportional as the others and in regard to the actual gameplay combat, I am glad that they are making it an action combat RPG heavily similar to DMC. Final Fantasy 15 for example felt like they wanted the combat of that game to be what this game seems to be showing off and the thing about long running game franchises like this one is that to continue to succeed, you generally need to start to adapt and try new things. Just look at Breath of the Wild. While I do miss the railroaded nature of the old Zelda games and their dungeons. I really enjoyed and appreciate that Nintendo decided to head into new territory and direction as far as gameplay goes and if they continued to make the same 'railroaded' Zelda games as they have been then I don't think their next line Zelda game would've been as big as Breath of the Wild is. With these new gameplay elements in FF16 there seems to be a revived interest from younger gamers like me in such an old franchise as Final Fantasy and that's not to say that I simply dislike turn based RPG's. I recently played through Octopath Traveller and Octopath Traveller II for example, and I thoroughly enjoyed and love those games. I think older Final Fantasy fans need to realize that some of the things that they originally fell in love with the Final Fantasy games for are changing, and that it isn't a bad thing or takes away from what the Final Fantasy franchise is, I agree with Naoki Yoshida about what is at the core of Final Fantasy games and to me Final Fantasy 16 is as I stated above, still Final Fantasy but an adapted and evolved version of it. What this does is bring in newer generations of gamers to fall in love with the franchise themselves and perhaps even go back and play some of the classics from Final Fantasy. The best thing about all of these changes however is the fact that if Final Fantasy is moving away from some of the things that original Final Fantasy fans have come to love about the series then there will always be like-minded people who feel the same as you do and because they feel like the things they want out of the Final Fantasy series aren't being done then they will go out and do it themselves, creating a whole new franchise or games that you can enjoy because it DOES have those elements in them like for example Octopath Traveler.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

An excellent and thorough response of which I can offer no argument. Completely balanced perspective. The only thing I will comment on is story disconnection. It isn't a dealbreaker across anything, but the best games marry gameplay and story as closely as possible. There's obviously room in the market for just blind fun above anything else, but it's weird to see huge monsters trying the land to shreds but advertising a political plot which is more about subtle movements. It doesn't seem like it fits, at present, as there are so many things that will need to line up for it not to just be rough or convenience. It's also completely fair that people might simply not care about story by in large, they just want a world to run around in. That's perfectly valid.

@xTempestWolfx

Жыл бұрын

Wow wasn't expecting a reply since the video is a month old already, but I appreciate the dedication. Definitely got a new subscriber. I am interested in what you're talking about though, do you have an example game that does the marriage of gameplay and story that you are referencing? I'm interested in this concept and can't, myself, think of a game off the top of my head that does this to a fulfilling amount. This is coming from a guy who hasn't (yet) played a few of the classic FF games so perhaps one of those fits the bill?

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

If people take the time to write a comment, I think they deserve a response - I appreciate having the conversations. As far as Final Fantasy goes, I think X is the one that joins gameplay and story really well. Everyone has a reason for being in the party (unlike a lot where you start asking the question for the members, why are you still here?) and the overall plight and how characters approach it is robust. In truth, most of the series has a hard time following story consistently, as much as VIII is my favourite overall things like why the characters aren't using their summons in story events when they're established as a really critical aspect of the plot leads to a raised eyebrow more often that it should. Dark Souls series (I haven't played Elden Ring yet), Deus Ex, Lost Odyssey and Kingdoms of Amalur were the ones that immediately jumped to my head. Outside of RPGs The Last of Us Part 1, Red Dead Redemption, the early Silent Hills, Splinter Cell and BioShock jump out at me.

"In one of the games, a party character is murdered." FF3: *"Pathetic."*

This is an interesting video to watch because I was trying to articulate this point about my issues with Dungeons and Dragons and I'm noticing they're very similar. In Warhammer Fantasy for instance, your career is your class. You can be a "farmer" and that summarizes everything you are and everything you know short of racial stuff and a few extra skills or talents you can learn outside your career (or if you change careers down the line). You might be a spy with little to no combat ability whatsoever but you know things that other people don't and you know how to use that information to your advantage. Entire fights can be prevented by telling the right person the right thing at the right time. Of course everyone is somewhat capable of defending themselves if things go poorly, but combat is just one of many ways to solve a problem. You really *don't* want to get into fights unless you have to, so you frequently see parties using their individual and combined talents to achieve alternative methods of victory over their opponents. In D&D on the other hand, 90% of the things written on your character sheet have to do with slaying the dragon in front of you. If nearly any human on the planet ever gives you even the slightest amount of difficulty, it immediately becomes a waste of time to do anything other than threaten them. You can traverse the realms, you can summon meteors from the sky, you can behead an owlbear with a single swing of your greataxe. There is literally no point for some non-combat citizen being a concern to you because you could decimate even the entire village if they came to defend them. With that exact scenario, there's obviously moral quandries with it. But in an interesting fantasy story you may be forced to temporarly work alonside a monster you hate, like a vampire because both of you are facing a demon you can't handle on your own. If you're cracked beyond belief in the powerscaling, you'll just kill them both and move on. There's no longer moral quandries or interesting dilemmas or even dialogue between you and the vampire or demon. You just draw your blade, say an edgy one-liner, and win the fight. It's interesting and kind of vidicative to see this concept applied to a video game as well (Final Fantasy has always had a lot in common with TTRPGs I think). Good video

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That was a really interesting read thank you. It's those challenges where you struggle with alternative solutions, winning in spite of your disadvantages that really stick with you. Fights might look impressive, but winning without anyone even realising they were in a "fight" with you are the truly satisfying events. Something I learned from comments here is that the first Final Fantasy was inspired by D&D so you're dead right in having commonalities. Been in the DNA since the beginning. Even unfortunately still now it seems, with most of the focus being on martial power for XVI.

"So many donuts to choose from" there's really not. If we're talking actually well considered, high depth, score based character action games we've had what....astral chain, bayonetta 3 and devil may cry V in the last five years? Meanwhile the list of turn based or action rpg games out by just square in just 2022 dwarfs that number.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

The thing is, I don't think XVI will stand toe to toe with the games you've mentioned. The game looks great, don't get me wrong, and some of things that are being done in it are spectacular - but the PAX presentation didn't really show off a deep move set. There attack combination seems to a fixed string (so no directionals for High Time or Stinger for example) and only access to three Eikon abilities per slot. One style button (I.e. Phoenix looks like Trickster's Trick). This will serve as an excellent middle ground for getting people into DMCV and the like and it speaks maybe to XVII being the actual contender, but I don't think this is going to be the vast character action game we all originally thought it would be.

You got to be a genius to make this video exactly 16 minutes long.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

If only a couple of people notice in the world it was all worth it. Funny thing is, I managed to do it again with my new video that publishes in sixteen minutes from this comment being posted.

@dantesparda4493

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion GET OUT OF HERE. If that is not intended you sir will forever have my subscription

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

The comment timing was absolutely perfect right? Although, I did wait five minutes to tell the truth. Close enough!

@fredy2041

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Sorry but he is very wrong on many points and lacks self information, he didnt even watched PAX

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@@fredy2041 PAX came after this video was published, and even if it didn’t, nothing PAX showed addressed characters or narrative.

Play the game and see how you feel afterward. A lot of ur analysis is made while not having the full context and even with the information provided so far I fully disagree with you. CBU3 has already surpassed the storytelling of the older games and they did it in a mmo which aren't known for having great stories. You say the game having ai party members means it can't achieve the same impact as FF7 or FF10 but ur proved wrong by ffxiv. Although its not the end all be all if you compare the metacritic scores of Endwalker, FFVII and FFX they are all the same at a 92 but the user rating for Endwalker is higher than both those games. Shadowbringers is considered by alot of ppl to be one of the best stories told in all of media and the pc release of that game has a user rating score that has also surpassed FF7 and FF10. Even Heavensward's user score for its pc release is higher than 7 and 10. All 3 of those expansions have the highest user scores in the series. Maybe you play it and you still hold those criticisms but the series creator is a mega fan of CBU3s work. He even asked if he could write some side quests for FFXVI on a livestream and has been inspired to create his own dark fantasy although he hasn't explicitly pointed out FFXVI as the direct inspiration but its pretty obvious given the timing. All this is pretty impressive considering Fantasian was supposed to be his last game before retirement. If you make valid criticisms I'll agree with you as I'm not set in my ways and can be convinced but so far everything you have put forth doesn't hold water imo. I did enjoy the vid tho. Keep it up 👍

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I always view that what is chosen to be put forward is because it is viewed as the best representation of the product. The vertical slice. it is true though, hopefully the full context will prove me wrong. You are dead on with the team eventually going on to create amazing things. The thing that an MMO has is time, people go into an MMO expecting to live there, so with that you can explore. Having a shorter timeframe needs a completely different approach. Its just as good to disagree as well as agree as well, it's good to see where some of my views could be explored further. I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you.

@tintinthomas1674

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion I don't entirely agree with the insinuation that MMO has time vs single player because they have to release an expansion every 2 years and an expansion is a full length Final Fantasy game. In addition to that they have to make sure nothing done in future expansions contradicts pre-existing lore. Yoshi-P has explained a couple times in interviews that the only real difference between 14 and 16 besides graphical quality is that they have to pay-off their setups sooner and don't have to put a hook at the end for the next expansion since its a one and done.

This was very well put. I can see how someone could misconstrue your words or say how "biased" the video sounds (its an opinionated piece, there's always bias). I don't dislike the fact that its an action game either since I like them also. Its just not what I've come for the series for and there's already so many out there that this doesn't feel like an "evolution" or "innovation". It just feels like FF is following current trends.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I understand people having a sizeable negative reaction to the things I'm saying, the game at face value looks good. If XVI was doing something new with the action format I would love it. There is so much that can be explored, the mind wanders at what could be done for the genre. This appears to be a simplified DMC to me, after having seen what variety is possible. I'm making a follow up at the moment for the PAX demonstration to highlight what I mean in combat. Practice makes perfect in my presentation hopefully. The presentation showed a gorgeous, well made game, but it also showed to me that it isn't going to have the depth people may be expecting. My concern now is that this won't provide long term satisfaction to the new people enticed and it will leave Final Fantasy in limbo. I want this to do well, as hopefully XVII will really cut lose.

I feel this is one of those things we need to wait and see instead of making judgments on the game. I’m actually excited for it. I’ve played everyone one so far. Also the game narrative wise is going into a more adult story telling which might actually be a great thing. I get you’re hesitant, but just wait.

@Darkernorakeln

Жыл бұрын

When every piece of presented information points one direction, do you truly expect things to go in another way? This isnt a Hideo Kojima game, Yoshida said over and over and over how he wants to "WOW" the players, thats his core focus.

@JohnSmith-hs1hn

Жыл бұрын

It looks like trash and isn;t a final fantasy game. There is no wait and see when we can literally see it lol. It may turn out to be a good game, but it still isn't a final fantasy game.

@Clavitz1

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-hs1hn then what IS a FF game to you?

@Wingedspace22

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnSmith-hs1hn there’s literally pax east stuff going over the game now, but apparently you missed it. Also…. What makes a game a “final fantasy game”? Each installment is always different. Never the same game twice, so please, define your answer.

@Wingedspace22

Жыл бұрын

@@Clavitz1 was just asking him the same thing lol

Thanks for this vid, it's nice to at least see some critical comment of this game. The combat certainly is flashy, but outside of the Dominants, I've yet to see anything that involves much difficulty, and commentary I've seen from people who have played the game during media tours etc suggest it is not very hard. A lot of the combat shown just seems like hitting a target dummy. The Eikon fights are ones you can't lose, just where wrong presses alter the cinematic a bit. Regarding the "style points" thing from DMC, can't say I care about that. The issue you outline with action games and the 'power fantasy' (really, in spite of the pushover enemies that just stagger as you hit them for the most part?) is exactly my problem with such games generally speaking and what I do not look forward to with 16. I like JRPGs - RPGs generally, really - for solid world-building, intelligently designed systems, challenging combat and the ability to customise my character's combat abilities. Not "styling" or crap like that on what may as well be a pinata. You can see Yoshi's perspective on JRPGs in the interview "Final Fantasy 14's Naoki Yoshida on the next generation and the challenges of future-proofing MMOs", where he had far fewer issues using the term, and like you say, it's "interesting" but I believe it's also at odds with reality given the sales of some of these games. It's also not the first true action RPG in the series, which I see repeated a lot as a claim. There is 15, Type 0, 7 Remake and Stranger of Paradise, and the last has a great combat system. I see a lot of people defending it based on Yoshi directing 14, but I am not impressed by 14 (right down to its self-same power fantasy/ego wank fixation) and especially its latest expansion. At least Maehiro was responsible for HW, but we'll see what he comes out with here. There's a lot for CBU3 to prove and all the hyping and "dream team" rambling in the world is not going to matter until it delivers. Like you say, it's fine to like DMC for what it is, and like you I enjoy it, but very little of what 16 has shown so far, regarding the above, is something I'd go looking for in an RPG. I guess I'll just look at it as a DMC game with a FF16 skin over it but it's still a bit disappointing.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I was looking at the developers of Genshin, and they're releasing a turnbased RPG on phones that has already broken records for downloads apparently, and it isn't released until 26 April. Now, I don't want to celebrate something that may turn out to be incredibly exploitative, sometimes freemium games are fine and sometimes they're a complete mickey take - but clearly the format has got some staying power with those kind of statistics. I'm going to give it a go myself, Genshin I thought was quite enjoyable for what it was - dropped off beginning of last year but I'll go back to it at some point to see what its been up to. Stranger of Paradise is on my list, I don't like playing things when I know they're not complete - but I think they're done with the DLC so I can give it a go - I've heard mostly good things about it. I think with XV and Type 0 people don't count them as they aren't good enough in their eyes, those are two titles I still got some enjoyment out of as well. I can't remember much of 0's zero at this point, but I can see myself revisiting down the line. This is it, we're allowed to be disappointed by a direction something has taken. I'm sure it will still be enjoyable, there hasn't been a Final Fantasy I haven't enjoyed, but there's a few that I keep going back to time and time again. I really want that to happen with another one, it's rarely because of the systems in play that causes me to do that, its how the world made me feel.

Never cared for turn based games, I grew up on RPG games like Demon Souls for the PS3, and other popular action games like Devil May Cry, I'm glad FF is catering to my interest and trying to do something different to a new member of the audience such as myself.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome that they've managed to pull you in with this instalment. I hope you enjoy the introduction to the Final Fantasy world.

Hey, I just buy it FF VII, VIII, IX, Type 0, X/X-2, XII, XV, FF VII remake & it is a blessing. All of them are just a pure perfection (yes, FF XV after all updates & patches is now amazing to & have FF spirit in it). Time will show what FF XVI will be. I hope it will be blowing next gen experience. My best FF is IX. So sweet, great , cute story, love, emotions & everything in candy graphic. That make this game sooo cool. I never see it something like that ever again. Perhaps one of My favorite games of all times :)

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Sakaguchi (creator of Final Fantasy) maintained that IX was his favourite for a long time. I don't know whether XIV has usurped that now, but you share taste with the man who started it all. I hope XVI brings a horde of new people to the series, there are so many gems waiting to be discovered.

@wiseguy240Winston

Жыл бұрын

I'll take XIII trilogy over that mess XV was any day especially the sequels. VIII & XV were pretty flawed too.

@kingofkings89pl

Жыл бұрын

@@wiseguy240Winston FF XV is now fixed & is fun now so give it anather chance for this tile bro :)

Turn base RPGs are actually newer than action based RPGs Fact

@micman963

Жыл бұрын

it would actually be more surprising if a mainline final fantasy came out and was revealed to be a true turn based game, It would actually be "fresher" because it's been about two decades since we had FF10. The rest are Hybrid/action games lol

So excited for this new Final Fantasy, ty !

I don't really think the issues you pointed to for the gameplay were negative impacts on the story. Different perhaps, but not negative. Like with the point of Cid can't be more powerful, but we could just think of that as the difference between force versus experience/skill. "Power levels" don't have to be the basis of the analysis of combat. But I think your point actually stands out more as how the story is not influence changes in the gameplay, such as no engaging with the petrification narrative. For example, a kind of in-combat resource where petrification looks more like MP/mana > too much power use means no more magic. Or the build up of a meter that either slows movement/animation speed, or causes a temporary death at 100% resulting in switching to a supporting character to finish a fight. Also, character action games are not common denominator appealing to the broadest audience. It is a very niche genre that consisted of basically only DMC, Bayonetta, and other Platinum developed games for years. It's something more specific than other beat-em-ups. Only recently have we seen Character Action pick up a little traction, but even something like the stealth-drop of Hi Fi Rush onto gamepass is a far outlier to how the average Character Action games actually sells. Still, it will be interesting if your specific story predictions come to pass. I don't think they will, but feel free to say "I told you so" if it does.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

The petrification aspect is the weirdest thing to me at the moment, because Clive should be the most susceptible out of anyone - for whatever reason they state petrification progresses. Whether its random or accumulative, he channels the most magic. If he's simply immune that would be incredibly lazy. That would be an interesting mechanic, could have it reset each engagement and add a tactical layer. You could easily see that causing an issue for a player though, kind of like how there isn't MP but cooldown on individual skills instead - keep player restriction low. I would quite like to see a system like that though, would have been really interesting. Not character action specifically, which since the State of Play I'm still unconvinced that the game will achieve those heights (but it also seems like they're going more for cinematic action), but rather single character with a companion that they can perform walk and talks with, a hub that they can work from, etc. There's a form factor to this game. I hope that I'm wrong more than anyone, I am going to do a 16 predictions video as my last pre-release on XVI, and I hope every single one is wrong. I want the wonder and discovery.

@SocraTetris

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion I'll look forward to that video! I think FF16 is likely going tk be schlocky-fun regardless of its story. So I'm going it expecting camp and will be pleasently surprised if its something better/more lofty. (Though even DMC5 eventually took the camp and turned it into that.) At the size and popularity FF has reached, I think its inevtiable that it starts trying tk appeal to "that asshole." (A game design concept of the lowest common denominator. Who wants everything explained and never wants to be hindered or challenged. the reason God of War Ragnarok just narrated the puzzle solutions. To not offend "that asshole."

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@@SocraTetris That drove me up the wall when I recently played through Horizon Forbidden West - Aloy wouldn't give me five seconds to solve any of the puzzles in that game. Constant chattering. I want to be challenged, I want to be stuck - I don't understand why that's so scary. I don't understand why developers bother with constructing puzzles if they just immediately solve it for you as well. That doesn't make me feel clever, it makes me feel frustrated and bored.

People felt the same way when final fantasy 12 came out. The ability to do something different and challenge expectations is what I enjoy. I liked 15, but I didn't love it. They want to tell full story and I get that. Games budgets are getting bigger they want to focus on a good game. Big reason this is compared to Devil may cry is that it's made by same dev. That is same thing with grand blue fantasy using platinum games for their combat. I don't see why you can't mix things up by using different combat systems in different games. Survivor horror looter shooter. Fighting game section in assassin creed. Games like it takes two were amazing because they had different levels with different mechanics and it didn't get boring. It focus on one story that it wanted to tell, but the gameplay was always changing. If final fantasy 16 wanted to be boring they would of just made a dark souls game. Lets be honest because elden ring won game of the year. They could of easily copy that for mainline game and called it a day. Saying a franchise is dead because they want to try something new. Another example all we know from new legend of zelda game is they added more crafting and creation stuff to the game mainly. So another game did that fallout 4 and it wasn't as fun in my opinion. Because that isn't what I enjoy out of fallout 3 or new vegas. I am still open to the idea and trying it out. I am not saying franchise is dead because they wasted 5 years on mechanics that I probably don't have to use that much. That mindset of games are only this or only should be this. You make this idea that it's like food. Final fantasy food has always tasted different. Final fantasy 9 will always be my favorite. I didn't like the original story of final fantasy 7, but the remake really cleaned up a lot of the issues I had with the original game. Only game I was disappointed by was final fantasy 13 which was so linear that it took most of the fun out of the game. That is the focus I would see from this game 16. Is this game linear and if it is does the capture me enough to get through it without feeling like I am bored. Saying franchise is dead or not something is dumb. That is same reason bioshock 4 will probably be rapture again or need to be connected because people are so locked on idea that is bioshock. When the idea what dystopian universe and since the company wanted to make money they made sequel that made the player impower with all same stuff. While the original studio made something new and I hope the bioshock 4 is something new. Doesn't need to be connected to the other games. I also don't feel like you need cid again. I would love to see final fantasy without Cid because it's not necessary. You just need a good story and anime feel that final fantasy games has always had. Just another anime about orphan that saves the world. xD

Being the 16th title in a series, it must be pretty difficult to come up with fresh, new ideas that fans will like

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

This is it, how many times have they completely reinvented the wheel. Now they're repurposing other wheels. Hopefully it works out.

@Metal-Gear-Moogle

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion same, looks really cool so far

@sasukeuchiha998

Жыл бұрын

Maybe make a spin off dating sim with Cloud in a dress.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Or a fitness game with Tifa

@yongquanwu3921

Жыл бұрын

Realization of the ideas is the problem.FF15's 'original' plot seemed very deep and intriguing but it has become very costly with luminous engine as they want visuals to top notch. The result, we get an incomplete game, a series with fewest summons, barren chapter 12 at launch with and we are seeing paid DLCs for the FIRST time in a console FF.

I'm happy to see different takes on FF16, I hope (in vain) that the conversations won't get too toxic. I think it will be difficult to find games where gameplay fully aligns with its lore/continuity. This misalignment is the result of streamlining some elements for the sake of creating a functional/fun gameplay. To use your example from FF8: highly trained veterans aren't trained to wait courteously for their allies and enemies to finish attacking before they do (I know its ATB but I hope you get the point lol). Overall, I think it's healthy that YoshiP's team is not sticking to conventional molds for game design. I'm sure most of us as kids used to fantasize about our ideal game combining "the combat of game X and graphics of game Y, etc.". FF16 feels like an extension of that childlike dream, and that's so exciting to see.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I hope so too, disagreeing with one other or identifying items in something you're interested that may not appeal to you is perfectly healthy. This is the thing, the old turn based systems had that disconnect and I completely appreciate that. It is weird for an all out war to be popping off in the background, whilst you wait to take your move. I think that started to become apparent in games that were really juicing the visuals and accompanying action. Turn based started a little less grand scale. Noone really complains about Pokemon being turnbased, and I think its because it all stays in scale. There aren't 100 vs 100 in the background whilst you consider your moves.

@bannedmann4469

Жыл бұрын

Yes, high level ludonarrative harmony is rarely achieved.

My only thing is if the big characters aren't super damage spongy and actually interact with your attacks like in other action games but overall I think the game will be mechanically sound. I get the want for a lot of classic ff elements to come back but I always enjoyed the thought of an ff game being truly action based seeing how they fight in the movies, dissida 10, or 13

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

XVI nails cinematic action there's no doubt about that. The smaller enemies look like they react which is good, but good point on the larger ones. Doesn't seem like there's an influence on their routines so far. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it might be what the stagger gauge is for in fairness - hitting them until that bar fills up and then they break momentum.

@TheAnimatedGamer

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion it would be nice if there was something a bit more there. In KH big guys stagger from a combo finisher or in FF7R there's a pressure mechanic from specific attacks that engage more stagger build up. Maybe with the scoring system it could be like DMC where the rotation of different attacks in a combo could multiply a build up? Idk lol

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Suzuki said that the hardest combat mode is harder than Dante Must Die - trying to parse that I assume monsters won't react to the animation lock attacks we're seeing I'm wagering. you'll need to plan it out a bit better than using attacks on cooldown. The big fights I don't know, looking at the Titan Lost footage it looks like an interactive cutscene if that makes sense - running up his arm to get to his face. I don't see how that can be varied, unless its something like more spikes to avoid on the way. The shooting sequences look like they will be on an infinite track until the damage threshold is hit as well. Interesting way of handling boss fights for sure.

you telling me imma get a DMC With actual good story? IM fucking down for this

It sounds like you're afraid of change my guy. But at the end of the day. FF needs something that will pull in bigger numbers. Im sorry 8million copies is cute....but persona is not FF. FF is a big player 8million copies ain't enough for something on the level of final fantasy. Square wants to sell 10,15,20 million copies. It took p5 6 years to sell 8million copies across multiple consoles and two console generations. That's not good enough. FF budgets are high. And FF is not a niche game. It's not competing with atlus. Its competing with God of war. Don't forget how big FF has been since 7. Turn based has an audience yes. But its not good enough for what FF needs. Why do you think they haven't done one in 20 years? As for the party. Well this is there solution for dealing with a.i. in action party based games. A.i. is either too stupid or too smart. For example in ff7 r you're constantly baby sitting the party and so of you want them to not do stupid things you need to constantly switch. That's fine enough for FF 7 r but 16 wants to give you more depth in the action party members you have to order around get in the way of the combat. This is their solution. Keep in mind 16 in 7r are developed by two separate teams and are being developed at the same time. Which means two teams will approach the same problem differently. For action games there just hasn't been a great solution to a.i. party members. I think you're letting you're familiarity with the party system make you feel like theres only one way the party should be handled. You're literally over here comparing your experience of ff7 with what you think FF 16 is going to be like and you haven't played 16. Let 16 be 16, you're over here trying to imagine this game being like 7, and ultimately none of the games have been like 7 since 7! As for character deaths that are meaningful. 14 has had meaningful deaths that matter a great deal and do affect you. No It's not like Aerith. But it's still great in its own way. From a story stand point I don't even think 16 will even be like 7 the the story structure is much more world focus. I highly recommend watching homeless potato on the different types of ff stories. Why 16 will be more like 14 and tactics and 12 rather than 7 , 8 ,or 10. You haven't played the game, give it a chance. As for "the power fantasy" you have with character action games. You sound like you've never played devil may cry or at least not properly. These games are generally hard. Which means you're getting the crap beat out of you alot. Character action games like dmc5 rest completely on how good you are. It's funny that you mention that in turn based rpgs it's ultimately up to you how events turn out because you control the party. It's funny because FF has never been very hard outside of secret bosses. Once you know a mechanic or over grind and ignore mechanics, xou can sleep through many turned based FF battles. Meanwhile in a game like dmc5 if you suck. You don't move on. The game encourages you to learn how to play it and engage it whcih means the better you get the cooler you get. Yes it becomes a power fantasy. But not because the game just does things for you. You have to earn that. People spend literal years day in and day out getting good at these games. Every slash, stab, jump , dodge, parry, trick is down to you and player creatively and expression. Watch a dmc combo video. No two players play the same. You have the freedom to deal with a problem how you see fit. This type of combat is the closet thing to actually picking up the sword and becoming the final fantasy character yourself. This is high engagement battle. Games like these have so much replay value because of this. You'll be able to return to this game and create new combos and get better and better.Tat feeling is so rewarding. You literally become a sword master. I will say this yes. It becomes a power fantasy because you EARN it. These games will beat you good so you actually have to engage and learn. I'd say instead of complaining about what youre losing, focus on what you're gaining. You might be pleasantly surprised The Torgal and cid critique was such a reach. If you watch that game play video. Benedicta puts Clive in situations where he's getting messed up. It's not that Torgal is better than Cid(which btw youre getting a piece of the game out of context so you really don't know what's going) it's the combination of Clive and Torgo working together that allows them to best Benedicta. Meanwhile. If you look at the cutscenes after the Garuda fight Cid pulls up as Ramuh to put down Clive(ifrit) which tells me in a serious match I think Ruh is taking Garuda considering Clive just bested her as ifrit. You're kind of cherry picking with this point. You're ff8 is not a good comparison here. You speak of character arcs... But you don't even know cloves character arc. You don't know the character. And obviously you didn't watch the demonstration because you can see very clearly that in the beginning of the game Clive very much cannot control ifrit. Which means if he goes berserk yes he could kill an army of humans. But he could also wind up killing his friends. Clive is also going to be on a revenge path from the age of 15 to 30 and the game is already hinting that Clive doesn't really know always actually going on. On top of that I just really wouldn't count the screenwriter of this game out. Again xiv has had someone of the best character writing in the franchise. Heavenward was an incredibly well written game and it shares the same writer. I wouldn't bet against the 14 team on good FF narrative. Ultimately your making another assumption about a game you've never played and know next to nothing about and compared it to a game that you clearly know and understand very well. I don't recall the game creators stating the use of eikonic abilities petrifies the user. To my understanding it's only when they physically transform into the eikon. But even then that hasn't been fully explained. So again you're making assumptions about a game you've never played. This also feels like more cherry picking. I understand FF as an action character game scares you. But give it a chance. I'm saying this because at his point there is literally no team at square that can make a better final fantasy game than biz dev 3 and pretty much anyone aligned with yoshi-ps sector of the studio. Put it this way, Xiv is on the level of golden era final fantasy, it has some of the best story telling and characters the franchise has ever had. I mean you have the pedigree of creator's who worked on the ivalice games like the og tactics and xii(possibly the highest rated FF game) these guys at the end of the day are huge fans of final fantasy tactics. And XVI from a story sense will be more like tactics than any other game in the mainline franchise. If the action combat is throwing you off,throttle back and ask yourself. Isn't it the story and characters that keep FF truly FF?. I beleive the battle system has always beenmore secondary.A great final fantasy consist of a great cast and that feeling of grand adventure. You're going to get that in this game. Besides FF fans can never agree on what system they like the most. And FF does need a new player base to stay relevant and alive. It cant rest on legacy if it wants to move forward.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

The thing is, the only game of Square's to seriously breach beyond eight million is VII. The top earners all sit around ten million. They haven't done turn based for Final Fantasy in 20 years as Dragon Quest took that position in their stable. My point with A.I. members is that they shouldn't be there full stop. If the game is action there shouldn't be a party. The most you get in action games is one companion. God of War has Atreus and that is Torgal here. God of War isn't a character action game though. If an A.I. character kills the boss for you, would you feel satisfied? If you could just stand back and watch the computer fight itself? Its a different angle, of course when you know the systems you can sleep through it. You can do that with action games as well, some are more cerebral than reflex based. Time begets mastery no matter what. The mastery you're talking about with day in day out remarks on how high a ceiling there is to define mastery with action games. Turn based and their ilk can be "solved". Action allows for a seemingly limitless growth. Which is better is personal taste. The Cid commentary was him wandering around aimlessly in the background whilst Torgal and Clive were delivering a beat down. The reasoning for the three Eikons besting one another I'm hoping will be made clear in the full game, at the moment I'm not buying it. The XIV comparison I appreciate, but an MMO has infinite time. This game doesn't. An MMO can evolve from patch to patch. This game won't. Achieving results when you can write as much as you want versus a one shot narrative is different. The writer also wrote A Realm Reborn. It doesn't scare me, my concerns are that it's trying to straddle both genres and it simply doesn't work. The two genres do not overlap. My love for the story of Final Fantasy is exactly the cornerstones of my concern, because I believe the action is what everything else serves, rather than the narrative being first and foremost. You are right, with the amount of money that Square Enix throw into Final Fantasy, it does need more returns. Great counterpoints here, I thoroughly enjoyed reading through this and you've got some really poignant things to consider. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I do understand your concerns about the balance of story and action combat --- although I do wonder if it's a little early to be passing judgement in that regard. At least from what I recall, we don't yet know why Clive has the power he does, nor do we know how long it takes for people who use the Dominants' powers to start degrading mentally and physically. It seems to me like there are still ways they could explain it narratively that would fit more in line with the gameplay. I agree with you though that it would be a shame to have AI party members just kind of hanging around not being effective --- especially when you figure characters like Cid and Jill are expected to be pretty powerful. Unless it's revealed that both of them just sort of canonically suck at regular combat and don't want to over-use their Eikon powers lol. I don't know, we'll see. I would argue that while I am a little sad that there won't be a more traditional party in FFXVI, I do argue that despite it closing SOME story outlets, it opens up others. I would imagine that making only Clive playable makes it a lot easier for the developers to let characters come and go, so to speak, from his company, rather than encouraging the player to invest their time and energy into leveling a character who is going to be in and out of the party, or perhaps only be a part of it for one section of the game. FFIV was a game where party members came and went pretty frequently, and FFII did that as well to and extent, but those are the only games in the series I've played where that was a regular thing. In most cases, I was either saddled with the same group for the entire game or I accumulated companions over time and then was saddled with them for the remainder of the game. And that does, I think, create some story-telling limitations at times. And it's quite possible that for the story the FFXVI creators are looking to tell, it makes more sense for them not to invest in combat move sets and abilities that aren't going to be developed from beginning to end. Anyway, I'm personally looking forward to FFXVI, but this is certainly shaping up to be different from the FF we're used to. I think the only thing I'm worried I WON'T like is how dark it is. Some FF fans like to immediately argue, "But FF has always been dark!" and I'm like yeah, but we usually don't have people getting their heads chopped off on screen, do we? I'm also a tad worried they're going to sacrifice a lot of the humor and moments of levity the series is known for in favor of this darker tone they're going for. And I respect that completely, but also, I don't want to be miserable while playing this game. We'll see, I guess. I know some people love the grittier stuff, but with a few exceptions I'm not really one of them.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I'm hoping so, and I agree I may be jumping the gun in my concerns. Although when things are presented up front ahead of the release of the full product that says to me how important the developer views it, if that makes sense. So stating the negative effects of magic in great detail but then nothing else makes me feel it hasn't been thought about, but maybe its a plot point that Clive is immune. I'm not sure I would like that plot point if true as it would feel like a bit of a cheat as him having more power than everyone would lead to him being more susceptible if anything but we'll see. Excellent point, the party system does stifle other possibilities that are only available with a single player character. I could have acknowledged that fact but I think I was focused on what the power of the character means as it's like he's all the party members you would have had rolled into one. You can imagine a version of this game where you have the Dominants in your party instead of Clive being all of them all at once. I'm looking forward to it too, and I share the apprehension regarding the overall tone. The games did tackle serious things, but they also aren't afraid of poking fun at themselves. There hasn't really been any showcasing of the humour or banter that Yoshi-P has said is in there. Hopefully that's got a tight lid as they don't want to spoil delivery rather than it not being as present as we would hope.

@supremeoverlorde2109

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion I feel like it would have been really interesting to have a game where you have the Dominants in your party. That's what I thought this was going to be initially, to be honest. I feel like the developers want to make it firmly clear that this is Clive's story. Which is fine --- I'm optimistic that they won't make the same mistake that was made with XV, which the game was so stuck in Noctis's perspective that literally everything else was sidelined (and as a result, even his own character arc suffered). The gameplay does look fun, so the biggest thing I'm hoping for is that we get some well-written character arcs here. Even speaking as a newer fan who's only been playing for a few years --- looking back on the history, I feel like the series has been struggling to find its identity for a long time, as modern gaming has continued to develop. So --- FF as it was known 20 years ago does seem pretty dead. But I'm hopeful the future of the series will be positive as well, if different.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I was lucky enough to wait to play XV until it was content complete and I actually really like the character focused stories that they told. I imagine the version without time for just Glad, Ignis & Prompto would make the ending incredibly hollow. I do intend to give it a playthrough again, with and without all of the updates just top experience how empty it was. Thankfully, I got to experience it close to how I imagine it was intended. Shame we still never got Aranea, Luna & Noctis episodes after that fact though. There's still some missing reels we'll never get. XIII that was especially true, that game really seemed to despise the fact that it had to be an RPG. I've got my fingers crossed as well.

@supremeoverlorde2109

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Yeah, don't get me wrong --- I also played FFXV first in its most complete form with the DLCs, and it was actually my first in the series. So I'm not hating. I have a lot of love for it. But at the same time, I do feel like even with the DLCs, there's a lot of stuff that could have been more fleshed out that simply wasn't, and in general I just think the main game suffers from some really choppy writing. It was trying to be a fun open world adventure between four friends and an epic fantasy coming of age story at the same time, and it feels like the developers really struggled to balance the two. And I've played the majority of XIII, but I've been slowly trying to finish it for almost two years and I'm struggling, lol. I respect its battle system, which I find to be one of the more interesting ATB style systems in the series, but otherwise I'm not a huge fan.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I remember being excited when it's original form was teased, where Noctis and Luna were actually adversaries. I feel the holes in what we got were because they literally copied and pasted what they could and tried to fill in the cracks with anything. Very interesting that it was your first, it had enough there to provide interest for the rest of them. Have you played XIV at all? There is a good game in XIII somewhere, XIII-2 (horrible name) was a vastly superior game - battle system and all. I never got around to XIII-3. I was a bit burned on Lightning by then.

Why not have new action gameplay and a classic mode where it's turn based. It would add to development time but both turn based and action fans will be happy not only that you can play the game twice with a different experience. I don't know of any game that has an action mode and turn based its quite an interesting idea.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I don't think Square is interested in turnbased, but I've had an idea for a while about how to get away from the "slow and boring" marker. Chess has normal, bullet and blitz. Could deploy the same for an RPG, can select the next action whenever you want pre-move etc. There's a time bonus for acting quickly and quickens the animations. Bonuses for correctly interpreting the enemy moves, penalties for guessing wrong and such. Turnbased can then still be fast and furious with mechanics to reward swift thinking. There's still room to explore the mode.

I love how assumed the while game/story based on a trailer.

Ok, I don't normally do this, but this video pushed me to the edge ... (Im ESL so grammar might be rough) Every "arguments" in this video are laughably bad. 1/ the sales argument, you compare persona 5 sales to FFXVII remake. This is bad because : -- We don't actually know the sales of FFXVII remake, they have not being updated since a few months after release -- The 8 million of persona is with the royal version added in -- You conveniently don't mention that FFXV (which is MORE of an action game than FFXVII remake) sold 10+ millions copies --this mean that by going trying to go back to an ATB systems like old school games, they actually sold fewer copies. 2/Vast ensemble cast -- You just add "that you should control" --"remove the party remove possibility" this is just false. Having a party or not having one both come with a set of restrictions. Having a party essentially force the story to never have the protagonist in a fighting situation alone for longer than an hour a best. You frame the death as a good thing with Aerith but this can also be a problem, when you play a JRPG with a party you know that nothing bad will happen to your party until the end, maybe there could be 1 death, but your party at large will be fine because they are necessary to the gameplay. There are others problems that come with a JRPG party when writing a story but you get the idea , one way is not strictly better than the other like you are trying to imply in your video . --Saying you will like the character less because you don't control them is just weird, tons of game have allied NPC that you can't control but are fantastic characters nonetheless. I will not like a character less just because i can't see him level up . 3/ The gameplay part : NOW this is where the BS come in full force -- You attack the game for not showing the battle how the narrative present it (with CID power) but you defend TURN BASE COMBAT, when it's the worst offender of this !!!! When your characters are supposed to engage in a super battle against god but in gameplay they just stand there and look the boss in the eyes, that the same shit. Nobody is thinking "whoa Cid is supposed to be powerful but his combat AI is bad, so the story is bad" this is so stupid. If you want to go for the ludo narrative dissonance attack fine but you have to realize that old FF games are way worse at this, that why the over the top summon animation became a meme, because you could blow up half the planet to kill a bird and this made no sense in the story. --Bringing the GTA quote back to attack the 11 hours of cinematic.... Now about this IDK anymore, is this bad faith or stupidity ? The quote is about the disconnect between direct action vs select an action through a menu. He wasn't talking about cinematic length in a game. Also, you bring up Elden Ring and DMC as short cinematic in games, but game like GOW or the Witcher 3 exist as well, so IDK what you are trying to prove here. -- Clive is too powerful "if I took Clive and put him in FFVIII universe he could just win" yeah no shit, but this is not what happening. This is so dumb, that like me saying" if I put GOKU in the Naruto universe he would win effortlessly" Yeah that true, but this doesn't mean GOKU will win effortlessly in his own universe. In this FF's story the protagonist is strong but the enemies and hardship will be in concordance with this fact, this is so OBVIOUS. --The petrification is not a threat in normal combat Now you are just making shit up, we don't know if just using your base power in human form is harmful as a dominant, we also don't know is Clive is special about this or not, all we know is that the full transformation is indeed harmful , the rest of your argument is pure BS speculation. --Ifrit beat Ramuh → Clive

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Your grammar is much better than a lot of native speakers so kudos for that. I never would have been able to tell that it wasn't your first language. 1 - That was my point with that one, VII Remake sold poorly even though it was allegedly in high demand by the fans. Square hasn't released any more sales data because there isn't anything else to tell. Although, we may get some information out of Sony being subpoenaed for details of their exclusivity deals, that may offer some insight. - It is, a few would be additional purchase, but would be moot even if so as VII had Intergrade. - That was a different kettle of fish, same as I didn't bring in pre order numbers for XVI in comparison to XV. XV was an extreme fringe case based upon thirteen years of meandering and mismanagement. - That was exactly my point yes. I was presenting evidence of turn based selling and evidence where it hasn't worked for Square. 2 - In a conventional RPG this would be true. - That isn't true, can easily have the party split. That would be extremely interesting actually. The problem you present with party being safe is guaranteed with only one protagonist. Your one character can't be killed where if you had multiple they're all in danger. - It is part of a bond that is unique to having multiple characters. There is less investment in the character yes. 3 - Cid has to be bad in combat was my point to be good as a character action. Its in wanting to appeal to the old RPG fans where this mistake comes in. They should just do away with guests as they aren't needed. - He didn't compare to the Witcher etc, he compared to GTA. That's why I talk about them. - Yes it limits possibility. Having more and more powerful monsters is good for spectacle, not much for grounding. Like I say, there isn't room for arcs of the individual because you have Godzilla running around. - My comments in regards to petrification were sourced from the Japanese lore website regarding petrification etc. If Clive is specially exempt that's a copout in my opinion. - It is more Benedikta beat Cid, Clive beats Benedikta, Cid beats Clive that doesn't make sense. If Cid could beat Clive at any point, logic would say he should have beaten Benedikta. - I didn't say bad story, I said it limits possibility. I'll take that bet, and I wager there will be a negative consequence to having all Eikons in one form and that the five mothercrystals are actually the five points of a hand on a giant Eikon. The fallen continent was actually a giant entity. 4 - Visuals were a component, which is healthy. XIII visuals were its sole focus. Highlighting what can happen when spectacle is the be all, end all. - I quote the headline exactly "Final Fantasy 16’s World Has Large Maps, But No Optional Dungeons". I even show the headline in the video. "They're off the field and you go deep down, but those are all connected in some way to the story". Those are Takai's exact words. The side content is monster hunts and something else not mentioned (I imagine grabbing herbs etc), monster hunts will be recoloured monsters from the main field and levelled up EIkon rematches. Good chat, thank you for taking the time to write out your thoughts, its fun to have the discussion and I can see where I may have needed to focus more on what I was saying. After all, if my intent hadn't been made clear that's my fault. I'll take this as feedback for my next video attempt.

@Merafry

Жыл бұрын

"That isn't true, can easily have the party split". No you can't, that why JRPGs aren't doing it for longer than an hour or 2, because if you do the gameplay suck and lose a lot of complexity/possibility. Same argument for deaths, you can't kill more than 1 or 2 members of the party max because if you do the gameplay is fucked. I know because some JRPG try to do it and the gameplay suffer as a result (the trail of cold steel games force you to use some characters for large stretches of the story and it's annoying when you don't like playing the characters, but they can get away with it because these games have like 20+ playable characters. Even in these games however your main character is almost never alone for more than a few fights.) For an FF game I think 10 is a good example , in my opinion Auron should have died in old Zanarkand after you beat Yunalesca , it make sense for his character arc and symbolizes him passing the torch to the younger generation, but gameplay wise this would have been terrible. "It is part of a bond that is unique to having multiple characters. There is less investment in the character yes" No, you can just say a broad statement like this, in the history of narration people have been invested in all sort of characters, controlling them was never some kind of magic. The logical conclusion to your statement is that Video game as a medium is inherently better than others because you can have a "bond that is unique" to the characters. In reality 95 % of the attachment you have with a character in the story is because of the writing no because you can control them . If Aerith was a bad character nobody would give a fuck about her death even if you play as her. "It's in wanting to appeal to the old RPG fans where this mistake comes in" . I really don't think it's trying to appeal to anybody, this just make sense story wise that Clive and Cid would climb the castle together. "He didn't compare to the Witcher etc, he compared to GTA". Yes, about action vs turn based NOT cinematic length. " Yes it limits possibility". EVERY TYPE OF STORY LIMIT POSSIBLY by definition, a low power story will have a different sets of possibility but not more than a high power one. "there isn't room for arcs of the individual because you have Godzilla running around". You better be a literature Nobel Prize winners to justifies this completely arbitrary statement because there are probably thousands of media pieces using "high power" while also having characters arcs. Also, we are talking about FF here , almost every game end with killing god in the dimension of hyper death so stronger and stronger monster is the default for a JRPG. "Benedikta beat Cid, Clive beats Benedikta, Cid beats Clive, that doesn't make sense". Same argument Benedicta has gone feral and don't control herself for unknown reasons, Cid is in perfect control. Ifrit also just came out of a big fight, so he is probably already spent . I am sorry but this really feel like a bad faith argument. "Highlighting what can happen when spectacle is the be all, end all." OK but this not the be all, end all of FFXVI, in the SKILLUP interview they even said that graphic was not the top priority when making the game. "quote the headline exactly" . I am really happy for you that you quote the headline but i only care about what the DEVELOPER said. The devs said no HIDDEN area of dungeon. "connected in some way to the story " doesn't mean this will only reuse main story asset. "monster hunts will be recolored monsters from the main field and levelled up EIkon rematches" Sources ??? This is just fan fiction. No HIDDEN area or dungeon doesn't mean all hunts will be recolored. "Something else not mentioned (I imagine grabbing herbs etc) ". If you actually did research you would find out that they did talk about this , they specifically said that the side quests will not be fetch quest , that it will be more like helping the common folk and learning about the world. Maybe they are lying, we can't be sure but you just assume the worst for no reason. My honest opinion, I just feel like you dislike this game and try to find convoluted reasons to justify your aversion instead of just saying "I don't like what this game is trying to be". I am saying this because if i used your video framing i could absolutely destroy every single other FF games just the same. Sorry for the aggressive tone , that how I write .

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

- You can, just because its elected not to be done that often doesn't mean it can't be. Lack of bravery with the format doesn't mean it can't be done. The entire basis of Octopath Traveler is to have divergent stories. - I said its part of a bond that's unique. I didn't say its the only way to establish bonds. It is a fact that video games offer a unique possibility versus other media, because you are part of the crafting of the narrative. Everything else is passive. Observing other characters in games is passive, controlling them is active. In the spirit of how I spoke in the video, there is less investment in a character if you don't actually invest anything in them. I didn't say its best. I didn't say its worse. I didn't say it was the only. I said it was unique. That unique to party based games you can invest in multiple versus a singular character control game. Unique to that style of game. - We don't know the story outside of this, and the reason why Cid was removed was so he wasn't in the boss fight. You can see the seams to the narrative needing to serve the action. Telling Clive not to get involved and then watching Cid get battered is poor. The full game will have similar contrivances to get guests away from boss fights, and then it will be more obvious. - Right, but those people don't play GTA indefinitely for story. They don't play COD for story. He's looking at the partial piece of why those games have dominated, which is what my critique was. - There's more possibilities with grounded realities than larger than life. - Yes, they escalate to that position. XVI starts where most end up. Think of X, the entire story was getting someone to be the Final Aeon. Clive is a Final Aeon minute one. I'm hoping teenage years Clive is actually a significant portion of the game as that will satisfy my concerns of it just being a tour of eikon fights. - "For unknown reasons". Just randomly goes feral. I feel you're just going to excuse anything now. For unknown reasons = no reason. They've chosen to show what they've shown, so if it's an incomplete message that isn't on me. You can feel it's bad faith if you choose, but Cid had got absolutely destroyed in a fight before coming out to subdue Ifrit. If anything Cid and Ifrit were equally tired. Cid should be more so as he was knocking on death's door. - They said it isn't, but you can see that it's eaten into the decision making. Such as; - All I can say is read the article. I quote Takai as well. It's right there for you to read for yourself. I show my sources so you can see where I've come to my conclusions from. "We didn't create any [hidden dungeons or maps] because we wanted players to focus more on the main scenario and not have this feeling that you have to go to this area and clear this area" If you're referring to this punctuation: [hidden dungeons or maps] - that means the editor added that in to make the quote stand on its own. Takai's actual words were: "We didn't create any because we wanted players to focus more on the main scenario and not have this feeling that you have to go to this area and clear this area". This isn't even something to debate, it's a fact from the horse's mouth. Pointless to discuss this any further, you'll get confirmation when you play the game and you'll remember this little chinwag. - it is extrapolation from what they're talking about. If everything is in service to the main story, the only conclusion to draw is that everything will be repurposing. Again, no further discussion to be had here. You'll think of me again when you play the game and see for yourself. - Not assuming the worst. I really would love to know the difference between "fetch quest" and "getting to know the common folk" though. Collecting herbs is "learning about the world". Fetch quest just refers to a throwaway activity that gives no reward. They're being evasive with it because technically speaking if you reward lore its not a fetch quest. - A shame then, because I feel you're confusing critique with hatred. Liking something doesn't mean you have to like everything about it. You can have an honest look at its flaws and what could develop to be flaws. With grounded expectations I can almost guarantee I'll like the game more than you will. You're setting yourself up for a fall having such high expectations whereas I'm prepared for where it might not live up to the pressure. I think if you reassessed what I was saying away from the mindset that everything is wrong because it isn't praise you might actually see some truth.

@Merafry

Жыл бұрын

On the party and story telling part, let just agree to disagree , personally no JRPG I've played manage to pull that off convincingly , this is one of my main problem with Octopath Traveler funnily enough. " He's looking at the partial piece of why those games have dominated, which is what my critique was." No he is using ultra popular game to show that the majority of young people engage in gameplay via direct control . Just because you compare your game in one aspect doesn't mean other aspects also have to be compared , this is just nonsensical.This is a fact , the only turn based game young people play is Pokemon . Your point that cinematic length might not be good for young player can be true but he is talking about the gameplay change , they never talked about changing the narration for young people if they did your point could be valid. They wanted to attract younger player -> they decide to change the gameplay but not the story telling , that it. "There's more possibilities with grounded realities than larger than life" I am still waiting on the Nobel price of literature for that one. "If anything Cid and Ifrit were equally tired" ... We don't even know how long its has been since the fight happened , could have been days for all we know . This is what I'm talking about when i say that you dislike the game , you are trying so hard to find problems . "the reason why Cid was removed was so he wasn't in the boss fight" Again with the fan fiction !! you have no proof , you just claim shit with no proof whatsoever . What worse is in the trailer we have footage where Cid intervene in a boss fight against the dragoon AND footage where Jill in her Shiva form intervene against a boss named "Liquide flame". "[hidden dungeons or maps] - that means the editor added that in to make the quote stand on its own" I KNOW and if he add "hidden dungeons or maps" this mean that the question he is answering to is about HIDDEN dungeons or maps and not OPTIONAL. this could be a classic communication problem and the game will Indeed not have optional dungeon , that clearly possible but we don't know for sure and using this in your video is no really convincing. I don't know why you are so obsessed about them saying that the major focus of the game is on the main story when almost EVERY final fantasy game is the same , hell almost Every JRPG is the same . they just precise this because people might think the game is like Skyrim , Witcher 3 or other WRPG where 70% of the content of the game is side quest. "They've chosen to show what they've shown, so if it's an incomplete message that isn't on me." Yes it on you to not attack the story of a video game when your material is a previews focused on the GAMEPLAY , That like me making a critique of a book with the wiki synopsis as my material. " it is extrapolation from what they're talking about." yes extrapolation and nothing else you like i said just assume the worst possible outcome . "Not assuming the worst". You absolutely are , even right now when i tell you a devs quote about side quest you are just saying "well maybe they are lying or are evasive etc " . Your response is essentially "OK but it will still probably be shit" . Maybe it will be shit , maybe not but we don't know and THAT the problem , you act like you already played the game. While some things are still up the air but I am 99% sure you are wrong about hunts not having unique monster . "You're setting yourself up for a fall having such high expectations whereas I'm prepared for where it might not live up to the pressure". Whoa even more fan fiction and its about me this time , exciting !!!! Truth is i will probably not even play this game at release , i don't have a particular love for this game and will probably play on PC in 2 years , i just read a few interviews and watched 2 previews to get a feel for the game , i did rewatche the trailers after your video tho to check if i was not crazy because everything is false or bad faith.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

- Yes my point is that he is looking at part of the puzzle and ignoring the whole picture. I could draw from GTA that young gamers like cars because there are cars in there. It wouldn't make it true, as I've drawn an incomplete conclusion. Maybe young generation just like guns. FPS and GTA both have guns. - It happened straight after. - The proof is exactly what I saw. We'll see the actual battle interventions other characters will have won't we. The reason why I'm confident in my position is because if other characters were in the fights, it would make the fights worse than they could be. This game is a character action game, it is basic game design philosophy. Look at Cid in the generic fights, he's just walking around staring at his shoes. he has to be useless because if he was competent it takes away from the point of a character action. There aren't guests in Devil May Cry V boss fights for extremely good reason. Very, very limited times are guests present in boss fights and the like because it would interfere. Set pieces only. One fight most likely, I imagine in XVI it will be one tag team fight. If they really want to go mad, it will be all of the Dominants for the ultra large dragon final boss. They unite to fight the big final bad. - No, because if the headline was misrepresenting the position they would have to offer a retraction. It isn't just the source I presented that's running that either, every outlet has that. Maybe you're right, maybe everyone else reporting it is wrong. Maybe the developers are deliberately not correcting that because they don't mind being misrepresented. I'm "obsessed" because other Final Fantasy had side content. Card games. Blitzball. Gold Saucer. Tetra Master. The Final Fantasies that had no side content were amongst the worst as it left those worlds without soul. Made them feel like a tour bus that you couldn't get off to explore. That's why that particular aspect is concerning. As I explained with what happened with XIII. - I think this verbiage explains a lot. These aren't attacks. They're observations. It focusing on gameplay is exactly the basis of my discussion - the story seems to be taking a backseat in favour of action. The little story they've provided is contradictory. - I didn't even say it was bad in of itself - you've assumed my view on it. I've simply stated that it will repurpose main game assets. I'm concerned that they've focused on spectacle over side content. Concern. C-o-n-c-e-r-n. I'll take that bet on no unique monsters though. 100% there won't be any.

XI was an EverQuest clone. Tactics is directly inspired by Tactics Ogre, and Ogre is Yoshi P's favorite game. FF I took a monster directly out of the Dungeon's and Dragon's handbook. Cloud has Guts' sword. Uematsu altered parts of The Landing in FFVIII over copyright concerns that it might be infringing on the music used in The Rock. Biggs and Wedge are more than just the creators referencing Star Wars, it's arguable the general plots of a handful of these games are just the plots of these movies reworked into a video game. Triple Triad was put into VIII because of the growing global popularity of Magic the Gathering. The Fort Condor mini game was put in because Kitase enjoyed RTS games in his spare time. You earn money in VIII because of reaction to criticism online that earning money from killing monsters makes no sense. Chocobo Racing is just a Mario Kart clone. The First SOLDIER was cited by Nomura as specifically made to appeal to younger audiences through gameplay that they would enjoy. Dirge of Cerberus was created because of the growing popularity of third person FPS games in the west. I don't understand the notion that FF back in the day was unique and unrelated to any other popular game released at the time. I mean, FF spent most of its history trying to get out from under the shadow of Dragon Quest in Japan, and then spent most of the "golden years," going through a period of developmental angst. A lot of the senior creatives were put off by being the company that just made a new Final Fantasy game every year.We got Xenogears, Brave Fencer Musashi, FFVII, Chrono Cross and a host of other games as a result of Square trying to branch out from how formulaic Final Fantasy had become from entry to entry, year to year. I played FFII. Guest characters grow in battle and die every 30 minutes. This is not new to FF. There is perma death in Tactics Ogre. Aerith's death was effective because of her characterization. She was the key to healing the planet and the person best equipped to understand what Sephiroth was going for. Cloud was a mess and relied on her. She was lost at one of his lowest points. Outside of her limits, she's mechanically interchangeable with pretty much every other character. Vincent and Cait Sith can easily be turned into replacement mages. Clear Tranquil does what Healing Wind does easily. MGS IV has seven and a half hours of cutscenes. A Realm Reborn has eight hours of cutscenes. God of War has six hours of cutscenes. CyberPunk has eight hours of cutscenes. I don't understand your point. Plenty of other genres with real time input and even action combat have long drawn out story segments. Half the appeal of Hi Fi Rush is that it's a fun action game with a light hearted, Saturday morning cartoon inspired story.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Hiya. I appreciate you critiquing what I said rather than what you thought I was going to say. Truthfully there isn't any original media. Whenever someone creates anything they will be inspired by something no doubt. So Triple Triad in VIII for example is nothing like Magic the Gathering. Magic may have created the thought "we need a card game", but what they created was new. That's the difference between inspiration and straight repurposing. Unique in the sense of reinventing itself each time, potentially because of that desire to get away from other properties. On Dragon Quest - it's probably a large part of why Final Fantasy dropped turn based since the merger of Square Enix. To make themselves distinct. Regarding death in Final Fantasy, the joy about some of these things is that its up to interpretation. I was thinking along the lines of there being a reason why it just doesn't work the same now knowing it. I have a lot more to say and I may have lost some spirit in trying to be extremely brief. I plan on discussing VII and how events will unfold in VII Rebirth in the near future so I can dive in deeper then. MGSIV was widely panned for those cutscenes. ARR is an RPG so it fits (and cutscenes to action ratio is less due to the nature of the game). God of War is a narrative driven game. CyberPunk is an RPG as well. Perhaps I should have elaborated more on this one, but it is Yoshi-P's use of FPS and GTA in his talking point specifically. Those audiences are not playing Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto for story, they're playing for the complete opposite. By his own angle, it doesn't fit. Commentary on the identity crisis of trying to appeal to a completely different audience whilst still trying to sell to the old.

@blumiu2426

Жыл бұрын

Tactics was made by the same guy that did Tactics Ogre as he joined the company on the ability. Final Fantasy still created it's own identity through it's battle system and making story the focus when no other game was taking that approach. Being inspired and taking pop culture references isn't the same thing as making the series identity into something else because it stopped innovating on what it did best; turn-based combat. It did not follow trends in RPGs, it set them. Only when we saw the changing of corporate hands did Final Fantasy reflect the ideas of the person driving it, going from Sakaguchi to Oda. Exaggeration. Guest characters didn't die every 30 minutes and you forget the games length was determined by limitations as well as how they could approach the story from that limitation. It is very new to Final Fantasy to have characters you don't control at all, while you did control them in FFII. The spectacle of Aerith's death is what made it impactful and those invested in her character. Death to a important character (looking to Suikoden) character wasn't new in JRPGs, but it was for people that never played JRPGs before, which was many. And you're wrong. Final Fantasy being formulaic wasn't the issue, people wanted to make their own thing and not just be attached to what already was there. How can that even make sense when the games were successful and kept refining their turn-based combat and improved storytelling? Entirely false statement to fit your argument. Sakaguchi encouraged people to go out on their own if they didn't want to just work on Final Fantasy, and that's how we ended up with the games you mentioned and Square/Squaresoft always had other projects besides Final Fantasy. A number of those IP never came to the US. The fact you tried to say Final Fantasy was comparable to Call of Duty is a complete joke and really shows intellectual dishonesty on your part. Long cutscenes have never been a boon in gaming unless effectively paced within the action, which was part of Sakaguchi's formula in how he made Final Fantasy. Just following a trend of the industry, especially Sony's just shows the problem with the industry and Square-Enix heads being in agreement with that model approach; imitate what's successful. You can create with polish, but just how memorable is modern gaming? I don't see anything that is supposedly so lauded being near memorable as what remakes are trying to recapture and the only thing I can think of is Elden Ring. It did everything it's own way, refined it's own approach and most importantly, INFLUENCED the industry and not be influenced by it. It changed open-world game approach and storytelling through environment, not holding the player's hand, which Final Fantasy is doing like the rest of the AAA industry. I won't touch on the things tolossus already did so I don't end up repeating. You're trying to make points by ignoring obvious things he said in the video, which comes off as you're being more defensive given how thorough you're reply is.

@Krust23

Жыл бұрын

Bullshit. I played both on launch. EverQuest and FfXI aren’t similar at all. EverQuest 2 was a straight up FfXI clone.

@ghostofhallownest5300

Жыл бұрын

Bruh you said a whole lot of nothing that others addressed and were wrong on almost everything. Cyberpunk is an first person action rpg. Everquest and ff are not the same neither were dragon quest and final fantasy. You sound like a new gen explaining games from the golden era that you never lived to actual people who were around during that time. Nothing about the FF series was formulaic during that time. How was chrono trigger, cross and FFVII formulaic!? Bruh just chattin nonsense you must be a braindead zoomer.

@genesisspace5331

Жыл бұрын

Actually guts wasn’t a popular character when FF7 came out It wasn’t until the anime which came months after FF7 it started to gain popularity

Perfect middle ground would be controlling clive as an action game and controlling your party with the ff7r system

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I'm spoiling some of my lines for my new video, but you could have a tag system. If you're familiar with fighting games and how some of them tag through a setlist, I genuinely think that is how XVII will shapeshift if XVI does well.

Turn based combat is alive and well in games like Octopath Traveler, where it's done to perfection. Final Fantasy need to evolve and having to be able to control all those flashy moves is a natural evolution. I think as a gamer Yoshi-P is doing the right thing here, he knows what gamers like. If the story is good and it is in the spirit of Final Fantasy, it will earn it's place as the benchmark for the future. Octopath Traveler 2 is what I see as the spiritual successor of the party system / turn based Final Fantasies, it's a perfect follower aside from not being 100% partied up all the time.

"GaMePlAy CoNtRaDiCtS nArAtIvE" Like not using a phoenix down on aerith, or sephiroth destroying the solar system multiple times and still losing...

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I think it's pretty clear that the final battle was visual representation (metaphor), considering the whole plot was about a Meteor coming to earth. You're right with the phoenix down though, VII did get lambasted for that. It all depends where your suspension of disbelief is. If you're happy with certain elements then that's awesome. If you don't care about the story that's great too.

@hack5770

Жыл бұрын

From what I heard knockout is not dead so from that logic Phoenix down does not work on the dead 😅

@fredy2041

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion No, Matt is 100% right. Its you who is wrong

This is a great video and explains a lot of my issues quite well. It deserve more likes.

But the guest character can also be a part of the gameplay and really important for the gameplay like in Knights Contract

That was an amazing analysis! I love Action games and JRPGs and while I feel like I am going to enjoy playing Final Fantasy XVI, Final Fantasy has changed. Considering that one of my favourite games is Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter which was very different to its predecessors, this doesn't anger me, but I do feel like it is sad that it won't be a new Final Fantasy game to utilise that style that the series was renowned for.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I really appreciate that. This is it, I bet XVI will be enjoyable - it just isn't what we showed up for. We may like all genres under the sun, it doesn't mean we want all genres to start to blend into one another.

@zacharyessey5904

Жыл бұрын

​@@Arkaledion Agreed. As you pointed out about Persona V, turn based games clearly have a market and I think that Square Enix shouldn't be so quick about trying to get rid of it. I get that they want to please as many people as possible, but I think then what they are saying is that the art of developing a game has little meaning and it all comes down to what you perceive will make you the most money. While of course that is one of the top priorities, for Square Enix to assume that something isn't profitable when it clearly is is something that I am not happy about. In the video you talked about how Square Enix did research before making these games and to me, they could have done that with turn based as well to see what works and what doesn't work.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's the double edge of appealing to a broad audience, you can end up appealing to nobody as there isn't anything that jumps out and separates it from the crowd. I feel Square have zeroed in on something, the visual aspect, that does get headlines for a time but ultimately doesn't matter a huge amount. Many of the titans present in the industry, GTA and COD to reference Yoshi-P's own words, aren't bleeding edge graphically. They look good definitely, and that's enough. Square seem to overspend and then make declarations that a game underperformed when it sold in excess of five million units, I'm thinking of Tomb Raider specifically here. Then they sell that IP and a load of others for half the price that Tomb Raider then sells for to Amazon a month later. Square are so locked on to graphical authority it seems they're letting sure-fire things things completely slip through their fingers. Even looking at mobile, they're desperately trying to create multiple freemium games at all costs. They have a couple of successes with something like Dissidia, but then games like First Soldier are killed after a year - to then make way for the next VII freemium game due in a couple of months. If they did stay in turnbased, there are so many directions for turnbased to explore, VII Remake was inventive. You could even serve something still typically turnbased but offer bonuses for fast acting, something like chess having its "main" mode, but then there's derivations like bullet and blitz. Make animations speed up after subsequent menu selections, make premoves that give bonuses to attack or penalise if the enemy makes a counter move. It's a shame that the gameplay type is seen as archaic as a whole, when there are games like Civilization that do hugely well. Just needs some of the good old fashioned innovation Square were known for back in the day.

You have some fair points on where the series has gone since FFX. I played the Mistwalker games of Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon and The Last Story, and enjoyed them more than both FFXIII and FFXV. The story and gameplay was very FF. The turn based, slowdown mechanic in FF7R was a perfect blend of the two worlds in a modern FF, and taking time to make decisions is what I enjoy about RPGs. Controlling multiple people in a battle is also intrinsic to FF. Action RPGs can be great too and I hope FFXVI brings back what FF SHOULD be. A complete story, with great music, classic Final Fantasy elements, tactical combat with a party and great graphics.

@vazazell5967

Жыл бұрын

>Last Story Last story is literally doing what 16 does. Bringing gameplay appropriate to the context instead of doing turnbased stuff like it's NES. Last Story is literally an immersive sim. FF tries to be an anime since almost very beginning, ofc it's gonna have anime combat now.

Always thought that ff was ment to be an character action game than a turn based jrpg with all those over the top cinematics they show (sephiroth vs lightning in disidia final fantasy nt) and wished i could play like that. So ff16 being like dmc is a huge yes to me and i think the series should stay like that

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

You're definitely right on that fact, they've stated for a long time they want more elaborate fights.

@DestroyTheWokeBrainrot

Жыл бұрын

Damn right

I'm going to ramble here for a bit. I hope games like Bravely Default and Octopath Traveler continue to make releases as time goes on for the turn based rpg fans out there. Dragon Quest as well. Persona/SMT. Pokémon. It's a shame you can't really put Final Fantasy in this list anymore, of which there are even more titles than the ones I mentioned. Not all have been great over the years. Blue Dragon, The Last Remnant, Lost Oddesey you either most likely loved or hated. But I'm sure as time goes on we'll get more IP's and indie projects that will continue to use the tried and true turn based formula. Indivisible comes to kind immediately. It felt similar to Valkerie Profile. Now it feels like, Final Fantasy going forward is going to be more like your typical Tales of game or Star Ocean entry. Not, terrible or all that bad in itself. Xenoblade is a lovely mix of action and turn based in the same vein. Where attacks and actions are qued with small cooldowns. Much like any modern MMO- Maybe I shouldn't compare the two but I'm kinda hoping if they bring back X, make a sequel to it, maybe we'll have a Xenoblade MMORPG. Wouldn't that be something? I guess my point is, what makes a RPG good, even great, isn't whether it's tied down to turn based tradition or if it's more busy, something like Diablo. Or Path of Exile. It's if the game play feels good. The loop rewarding. Something you can sink your teeth into, replay the parts you really enjoy. Try new things. I thought I'd be in love and prefer turn based games til the day I died, but found myself spending tens and tens of hours on action titles that knew how to capture your attention. I feel like perhaps in the future Final Fantasy may become close to something like Path of Exile or Diablo as well. Not to just repeat those names again, but I feel it's a point worth making. Or perhaps it may also borrow some elements from the Souls series if combat in FF16 leans towards dodging and parrying to do well? Stranger of Paradise, flawed game that it may be, did alright with that. I feel like any game these days can either feel like you're getting a porterhouse steak, or just something that teases that itch for more that you'll never get. When suddenly instead of a steak, you're really just getting a cheap slab of hamburger with no substance. The problem is that personal taste is so vastly different for everyone. My opinions are not going to be yours. Even if they may be similar at points. For me, as long as the game is engaging enough to sink a 'healthy' amount of hours into, to feel like you've gotten your money's worth? If a RPG, that I buy for $60+ holds me over for 60+ hours? That's good enough for me. It's likely getting a seven or more out of ten for my personal rating. For me, personally, I spent over 100 hours in each Xenoblade title and felt absolutely satisfied with my money spent. Hopefully if I end up with ff16? I'll get similar enjoyment from that if not more. But it depends on if there's things like a endgame, or new game +, maybe arcade mode will even hook me in as I compete against my friends. I don't know. All I can say is that I'm not too disappointed in the direction modern RPG titles seem to be taking just yet. But. Again. I'm sure many feel different or may be stuck ten or more years in the past, still playing through older titles like FF6 for the thirtieth plus time. And that's fine. That's your personal enjoyment and what you, yourself would like to spend your time on doing. For myself I'm weirdly excited to see one of my favorite game franchises, cross that gap. Move towards the future. Not be left behind as other games may or may not garnish more success than it would if it didn't adapt. Games are cool. Exciting. Fun. There's that new Zelda game coming out soon. Tears of the Kingdom? I'm sure I'll get lost in that for a while too. And that's really just an action adventure title more than a typical RPG with some puzzle solving. I don't know. Could always go play D&D at the table sometime again if/when I feel like the video medium is lacking. Dice rolls are fun. Returning to pen and paper as you annoy the DM by breaking every quest while mucking up their world until you just get smote down by some pompous God for not 'playing the game right'. Good times. Good times.

Thumbs UP for quality work ;-)

Judging by the thumbnail you're porbably going to complain the it isn't turn-based. The mainline games have not been turn-based for over 20 years, so it's time to get over it.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Nah. I don’t ever complain about that.

@Dyrvega

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion your description would say otherwise 😂 final fantasy does not just mean ‘turn based’. It was literally just the vehicle used at the time to progress you through the story and help you experience literally everything else that defines an FF game.

@Ant-gu6vz

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion It's totally subjective that combat is the foundation of FF games. For you it could be and that's totally fine, but for me I just enjoy the stories. I like some turn-based games but the old FF's are so braindead easy to the point of being boring sometimes. I've always played for the world and stories and I'll play XVI for that too, with the added cherry on top of the combat looking badass and exciting.

@rurikki5350

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion You're a moron.

You have perfectly summarized my sentiments towards the new direction of the series. I would add; there is a strong possibility that this game, for the reasons you have pointed out here, will be very linear. So much so that fans of series will be shocked despite them enjoying the narrative, just how contained this experience will be.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I think you're right. I think the comments stating that all locations are part of the main story have slipped passed people for the most part. That is what makes worlds feel small, when everything has relevance to the main quest. Looking at any game that is praised for its large world also have places that the game wasn't afraid to keep hidden from you. That you only discover after discussing with others.

@darkmage102

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion I think you hit the nail on the head why to me, despite FFXIV being an MMO with lots of areas, it feels incredibly small. There might be a small out of the way section on map, but no zone is ever just truly optional, it makes the world feel really small despite there being so many varieties of areas. Having played FFXI after FFXIV the contrast is pretty insane when it comes to level design, because in that MMO there truly are zones and areas that have no relevance to the main story that are just hidden, and somehow that makes the world feel more believable and massive despite the zones being smaller in some cases. Even FFXV with its open world was linear, but it had a few locations that it kept hidden from you as well.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@@darkmage102 It's the kind of thing that people won't be able to quite put their finger on, but it makes the world feel manufactured. We all obviously know that it is, but on the other end of the scale I understand why games like Terraria and Minecraft are the killers that they are - even though the graphics are basic, it makes the world feel real. You can't do that kind of thing with a big budget title, but there's some middle ground between spending ludicrous sums of money on areas, and toning it down a little and crafting some secrets. Make the world feel real rather than just look real. Souls is probably a better example, the sense of discovery and wonder people get from that game and it still looks good, no one is saying that game is ugly.

Imagine finally getting an SSS rank combo, then some elf shows up and says "You still need practice, 40 points"

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

"Go back to turn based combat you noob"

@gangstablook5846

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion "Why do you refuse to gain combos? The combos of our creator, Nomura?"

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

"…if you just continue to press the same button like X X X and Y Y Y, and X X X, Y Y Y again, you will be sucked"

you forgot about the moogles

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

And the chocobos!

Huh? FF7 remake sold over 14.1 Million, not 5 million. It sold 5M in the first few months (3.5M that sold in the first 3 DAYS). Regardless, this video is almost entirely speculation - sorry but SE knocked it out of the park with FF7R, they've done a killer job with FF14, and they'll probably do a great job with 16 as well. I agree that a departure from traditional elements of the franchise is jarring and that some of them can fail miserably (FF15 for example), but it's just way, way, way too early to draw any conclusions. Let's stay positive and hope for the best.

@Vereid

Жыл бұрын

I figure as long as they keep giving us games like Octopath Traveler which are clearly based on older rpgs, as well as pixel remasters coming to modern consoles, everything is fine. I mean I grew up with turn based RPGs, but sometimes people really go overboard panicking that the series is losing what makes it great and such, when Square are clearly still supporting their older fans and series. What I’ve seen of the game looks good. Edit: I didn’t know FF7R sold that well, I’m guessing the Steam release really helped out a lot.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

It's the original VII that has sold 14.1 at this point in time. Remake doesn't have public sales data beyond August 2020. 100% agree on hoping for the best, pointing out concerns doesn't mean I don't want a good game. After all, I won't get another new Final Fantasy world for another four or so years. It's a good point as well, Square seem to be creating new IP to appeal to the older sensibilities.

Just say I can’t do combos and would rather wait my turn

A dark environment game with super bright particle effects.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget the companion for the hero to talk to whilst traversing the world "alone"

(for me) final fantasy was always about the struggles of characters, their growth, and their interactions with the world. It was never about spectacle, it was about telling a story for you to live through, with characters that could have complex emotions and thought we wouldn't be able to see or experience normally as they went through growth and became stronger. It's a shame this, and many more final fantasies to come, will lack the heart of past entries

I understand your points being made, but.... In regards to the points you made on the impact of the party has on the player, I'd have agreed with you 100%, at least had it not been for FF14, and experiencing being emotionally involved in disposable non controllable NPCs that act like your party but you have no control over. Final Fantasy 14 is essentially a solo character experience, and you have social and narrative interactions with several core characters that are essentially your set dressing. What YoshiP has done with this is no short of a miracle and has opened my eyes, that my opinion that I would have shared with you isnt as a big deal as previously thought. The narrative team in charge of FF16 has already shown success within FF14 in telling a compelling story with an ensamble of NPCs that act like your party when in gameplay you as the player have no agency over. I believe that as long as the narrative/story is good within the confines of the Fantasy RPG genre.. which is what Final Fantasy is known for above all other franchise elements such as terminologies, themes, and aesthetics. Then its gona be a successful FF. IMO FF is not dead yet, but if this game doesn't land with what I expect from an numbered mainline FF game. The franchise is dead to me. I personally want FF to keep pushing forward with new and exciting innovated ways as an RPG genre. While I love turn based combat with a traditional party system, I can keep my elitism in check by not demanding to attach it to FF. There are other still RPG titles out there that will still give me that gameplay loop I need.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

XIV is a great example of disproving my concerns. The only thorn I have in taking it as complete reassurance is that XIV has/had a lot more time to get us invested. MMOs by design you're hanging around in for a far greater period of time. You enshroud yourself in its world and characters. XVI has to achieve the same results in a far more truncated period of time. Agree wholeheartedly though, I'm not extremely versed in the MMO scene as I am with XIV specifically, but I hadn't seen any wider chatter about any other MMO in regards to the story, so that team has already done something remarkable. That's a healthy attitude to have as well, sometimes things grow and the reality is Square might not have any more ideas for Final Fantasy in less action packed settings. If they did, they certainly have precedent for spin offs and we could even end up with something like Final Fantasy Classic series. The company itself is certainly providing a lot of options in the more traditional RPG setup.

@wingsofwar

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Time spent is definitely a factor, those who have stuck with 14 longer will have grown a greater attachment to NPCs than those starting now, BUT funny enough, as a new player in XIV, and even for those people who skip ARR and go right into Heavensward, still get emotionally invested in a NPC at that is only maybe 20 hours of gameplay. About 60 additional hours in, you should be well into Shadowbringers and the attachment grows exponentially. Yes, 16 has to achieve the same effect over a shorter gameplay time, but seeing how they formulated Heavensward's story beats.. my concerns that they wont hit their mark is pretty diminished. YoshiP's personal QA i've heard is far more hardcore than the actual QA.. so if shit doesn't make sense he is the guy that gona catch it right away, and he has the historical track record to prove that. Terms of stories within the MMO genre, of course XIV is unique.. because honestly there isn't any MMO that comes anywhere near close to the narrative quality XIV does.. and before XIV it was pretty accurate to say that its impossible to tell even a half decent story in an MMO setting. Now that notion has been turned over completely. I think a big worry I've heard other people express was that after FF16..all other sequel titles will also have to be action oriented.. when of course that may not gona be the case at all because each entry has its own battle system or flare.. I honestly don't expect FF17 or FF18 to have shared any of the action oriented combat of FF16, and its still within the realm of possibility that a future mainline FF title could have another spin on turn based combat as long as they are innovating and pushing forward with the genre. Regarding SquareEnix themselves...they are a stupid company right now, I have almost no trust or hope in that company. I consider CBU3 and something separate from SE..they operate on a completely different wavelength that its so strange to think they are the same group/company and that YoshiP is on the Board of Directors.. but he is also sooo hands off on the other parts of the business and mostly focused on CBU3 that he is single handedly carrying the company off a single IP. But if they could do a Final Fantasy Classic franchise ...that would deff be a pretty big win for gamers like us, and those entries in that franchise dont need triple AAA budgets to develop, but since SquareEnix isnt smart... it wont ever happen.

Lil Bro's just straight waffling.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

🧇

I'm absolutely thrilled about the new DmC combat system being introduced into FF and I know I'll be too busy with my own fight to have any focus left on my teammates. I'm just afraid of another "FFS SAKE DONALD , WHY DON'T YOU FFING HEAL" moment presenting itself with the fully AI driven teammembers

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Luckily it seems like you have full control over the dog, and can even set the ring to make it heal you so they seem to recognise that as an issue as well. I'm curious as to whether Kingdom Hearts will get something similar, as I know some of the team helped on XVI.

As someone who grew up on turn based, I'm glad it's been slowly faded out, there is nothing engaging about clicking through menus. Growing up in the 80s, YS was and still my favorite JRPG franchise with having fond memories of YS3 Wanderers of YS on the SNES. I never got into a single turn based game, I already played games like Illusion of Gaia, Secret of Mana, and other JRPGS that weren't turn based growing up and every time I gave them a chance, it's a slogging experience.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Funnily enough the only Ys I have tried is VIII and I loved it. I thought that was a good jumping in point as it was an isolated story. I do intend to go back to Origin and giving the series a proper go.

@sasamosamo

Жыл бұрын

To be honest…I think phasing genres out is exactly what leads to homogenization. I don’t mean to be rude, but I would say don’t play a series if you don’t like the gameplay. They could have made this FFA (action), like how FFT (tactics) was it’s own series. This is a death, not an evolution.

I just want to say that this was an excellent video and really put into words my feelings regarding ff16.

I kinda wonder what the discussions were when Final Fantasy Versus 13 was shown to be just a more grounded Kingdom Hearts game. Especially because 13 still kept that "traditional" turn based. And if 15 kept the Kingdom Hearts esque combat, if the discussions around XVI would be very different. At the same time, I would be ABSOLUTELY bummed if a 10 remake tries to be more live action. Because the turn based mechanics is straight up the best especially because I don't really like ATB as a mechanic just to give a sense of pressure to players. I like turn based RPGs because they can be strategic and rely on player's decisions. And when it comes to my thoughts about XVI. Yeah the game will be great! But it does feel like the decisions around this game are to try and make Berserk Final Fantasy

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I think because Versus was a spin off it excited the audience more than not. Kind of like Metal Gear Rising versus Metal Gear Solid. Metal Gear was on the cusp of becoming a master property from which other things would grow from. Theathrhythm exists and if you want it its there, but it wasn't called Final Fantasy XVII or something. X is the pinnacle of turn based combat. From the CTB to the tagging in, I am yet to see something that comes close.

I personally feel like the only thing that makes FF is reused asset names and tropes attached to them at this point

The only thing I can agree with here is the fact that you don't like that FF16 is going to be an action instead of turn-based. The rest is pretty baseless. Let's break this down and give some counter points. First up: Clive is all the summons all at once. To this, I say we don't know the story. But I'd also like to point out that we don't know the 100% specifics of how petrification works. My bet is that it's only a real threat and danger WHILE the dominant is in summoned form. If you look at any of the trailers you'll note that they only actually fully summon when in extreme danger. If you go to the website and actually read the page, you'll find that Clive has actually been able to use the power of Phoenix since his teenage years while protecting his brother. Which brings me to my next point, why does Clive ONLY ever turn into Ifrit? My bet is that once Clive defeats another dominate he doesn't get their full power but rather gets a "blessing" of some kind that normally would need to be granted to them, which enables him to use their element. Second: No party members means no story!!! Only Clive can be strong!! Which I say is actually a trope of Final Fantasy since like 7, where the Main character's only real weakness is some type of self-doubt or mental anguish that they have to overcome so that they can release their true potential. I'm pretty sure that Shiva (Jill) is going to save Clive after he messes up and bites off more than he can chew and will probably bring him back from his path of vengeance, just like every. other. final. fantasy. Using 8, just like you, you don't really get that much character development outside of small moments here and there from the side party. The story mainly revolves around Squall. Third: Dante or Clive!?!?! Dante. Fourth: GAME. DOES. NOT. MATCH. STORY!!!!!!!! See first point. Even if the first point is wrong, the gameplay of all Final Fantasy never matches their narrative. I think only a few games actually do this, my favorite personally being Breath of Fire Dragons Quater with the dragon gauge. Fifth: Cid lost!?! But wry!?! Game has to make Clive strongest!!!! To which I answer, ok. Yet again, let's use 8. Squall and his team of young inexperienced teammates got to take over his rumored father and friends to save them around 3 times. Cloud somehow outdid Zach and got stabbed by SEPHIROTH(Cue one-winged angel)and killed him in base "I wish I was first class" form with no rhyme or reason. Somehow Yuna and friends magically got lucky and beat Sin with no true rhyme or reason other than "I will defy fate!!!!!" motivation. Sixth: Power fantasy action games. All the games that you keep showing actually have pretty good methods of showing how weak the main character is in comparison to the end antagonist.

@J_A_P_E

Жыл бұрын

Good comment. I can't believe OP said that traditional FF games have no gameplay to narrative dissonance It doesn't get more power fantasy than fighting time traveling demigods in the vacuum of space

@Something5059

Жыл бұрын

@@J_A_P_E don't even get me started on how all the school boys wanted to be the main FF protagonist in the 90s. Lol Also who would win!?!? Squall or Clive!?!? I personally say Squall. He doesn't need no Godzilla form to put you into the blasting zone (cue danger zone music)

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@ Something5059 First: We know that petrification is a risk to all magic users, and that Dominants have a greater risk of petrification. This is established in the lore on Square's website and there's a normal dude I used in the video that is petrified in a bed. Second: You've missed a fair amount of the character's arcs in that case. Which isn't necessarily on you, the game could have turned you off with a multitude of its issues and sometimes that's enough to make it harder to see other elements. Same as if you're really jiving with something you'll be much more receptive to it. Third: Suzuki states Clive. Fourth: It is a question of suspension of disbelief and where your line falls. I always thought there was a great effort to keep things reasonably grounded in prior games. As much as you could with children casting water of course. They still had a lot of human based limitation. Fifth: They don't take over that character, they're passengers. Same as your VII example, there's clear reasons why events unfold. It may have been a while since you experienced them in fairness. Sixth: Yes they do. They also have good reason for the guest to be useless. Such as 9S being a scout unit.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

@ Jape I didn't say that at all. Pointing out issues here doesn't mean I'm saying all other games are flawless.

@Something5059

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion First: No we don't. It's implied that it's a risk to those that don't rely on the crystal to use magic. We don't know if that was a normal dude or what the cause of his petrification is As with the intent of the first post, greater risk probably comes from actually summoning. It's also possible that this guy is another minor dominate as it states in Cids bio bearers and dominates go to the "hideout". This makes me believe that these people using magic are being forced to overuse it (like running out of MP.). While a battle or using it for a short period of time may be ok for them, being forced to use the ability on a consistent basis or a large amount (summoning) may turn them to stone (aka running out of MP). Direct site snippets left at the very bottom of the post. Second: Please enlighten me on the huge amount of character development from the main cast of 8. But back on topic, I'm pretty sure that you're overreacting to the side characters not having any important roles. Just because a character isn't playable and can't fight as well as the main character doesn't mean they won't have any meaningful contribution to the story. Again, they will more than likely at minimum be the anchor that pulls Clive back from his mental anguish just like in every Final fantasy. This has happened in 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 15. I don't know about 13. Third: Opinions are opinions. We won't really know the truth until 16 comes out. Fourth: So basically that entire portion of your video was speculation and opinion. Great effort to keep things grounded? I don't think it does. You have Zach (vastly stronger) killed off by a few units of Shinra soldiers, but yet Cloud, Tifa and Barret manage to make it in through the front gate and to the upper levels of the Shinra HQ and also somehow manage to escape? Only later to fight mecha magic machines that are basically the size of the summons we see in 16 and actually win...I hope you can see the fallacy in your logic a bit by now. Fifth: Sorry you're right, Laguna just felt a "surge of power" that seemingly assisted him in winning battles when they connected. But the point is that much younger and inexperienced characters have won battles that they had no business winning and is actually common in the Final Fantasy series. Sixth: Not sure what stance you're trying to take with this. But assuming it's the "doggo is stronger than Cid, doesn't match story" see point 5 (og post). But I'll say it a bit more direct. There isn't a Final Fantasy where gameplay is story accurate. Further, there aren't many games at all that are like this. Stop blaming 16 for something that has been around for quite a while and is prevalent in multiple final fantasy's. If it's for another reason, you're going to have a bit more clear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Magic Without Crystals: A Bearer's Burden Most men and women in Valisthea rely on the Mothercrystals to conjure their magicks. However, a small number are born with the ability to cast magicks at will. A Bearer's lot in life differs dramatically depending on the realm in which they are born." (Shows what looks like the petrification taking effect ) Cidolfus Telamon Voice Actor:RALPH INESON Known to his friends as "Cid," this soldier turned outlaw strives to build a place where persecuted Bearers and exploited Dominants can die on their own terms. A man of science, he also conducts research into how one might live in the deadlands-as he and his band of fellow heretics must. Cid is also a Dominant-the power of the Eikon Ramuh having awoken within him shortly after he landed on Valisthean shores. No doubt it was this power that saw him rise through the ranks of the Royal Waloeder Army-where it would seem he crossed paths with a certain Benedikta Harman...

This can't possibly disappoint more than Final Fantasy XV back on release day... right?

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I hate to imagine what would happen to the franchise after that. Only online entries from that point on?

@travelsizedlions

Жыл бұрын

​@@Arkaledion if that were the case, FFXIV would just be their flagship forever.

I disagree with your take personally but your editing and script writing is so great ill leave a like anyways, hope you still keep on making content as this video was very well made

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That was a lovely comment to read, thank you. I wish everyone could separate a difference of opinion as soundly as this. I hope you have a great day, as you just made mine.

I'm not sure why Yoshi-P thinks younger gamers would be averse to turn based combat when games like Pokemon are selling in the millions.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Hot off the presses as well, I literally learned about a couple of minutes ago - but the Genshin developers have just broken download records for their new game, a turnbased RPG and it officially launches 26 April. What it turns out to be is yet to be known, but clearly there's an interest if it's snatching that much attention ahead of time.

Really well made video, that goes beyond the classic "Turn-based is tactical, therefore better". I wouldn't say that character action games cannot feature good storytelling - just because something isn't the norm doesn't mean you shouldn't do it (you could have said the same about MMOs before ff14), and there is always some form of ludonarrative dissonance in video games. But with some of the recent announcements, like rating comparison, or Final Fantasy Mode (why call it that if its main feature is difficulty, something FF is very notably NOT known for?), I do get the feeling that this team prioritizes fluff that at least I personally just don't care about to bring in new audiences. Honestly, I just don't think that's necessary - Final Fantasy is such a big name that any new mainline title will be like a blockbuster event, so if they just make a good RPG without any major gimmicks (something SE has struggled with in the last two decades), a lot of people would be interested in it by name recognition alone, and who knows, maybe new audiences would even come to like turn based combat as well, like they did with Persona 5. Luckily, I'm not particularly hung up on FF being Turn-Based, as long as they deliver on the story front I will enjoy it. And I gotta say, I am hyped to be around for mainline FF launch for the first time. But frankly, I don't know what "mainline FF" means either, at this point.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I'm with you, I'm not hung up on the loss of turn based at all. It's how much emphasis is being placed on the replacement and how much the rest of the game has to warp to service that particular aspect. Not to mention that it isn't a new system, maybe they'll be enough quirks to it, but I loved being completely bamboozled by XII for example. It's a great feeling when you grow to master something. Final Fantasy Mode is such a weird moniker, its almost like utilising the "XVI" instead of this being a straight reboot. They know it means something to people so its being used a trojan horse almost.

Ppl need to stop complaining and just try the game out if they don't like the fighting fine don't play it..I grew up playing turn base fighting and im happy for the change..in a real fight not gonna be taking turns hitting each other 🤷‍♂️

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Complaining isn't inherently a bad thing. People communicating issues can be a catalyst for positive improvement. If you're familiar with Suicide Squad, the game was delayed because people communicated that it looked odd. That wouldn't happen if people stayed silent. Complaints don't mean hatred, it can mean they want the best from something.

@kryptomanik

Жыл бұрын

... Final Fantasy isn't real either. Not every simulated combat scenario needs to be akin to an actual fight.

@blackzangetsu716

Жыл бұрын

@@kryptomanik yea you right but they wanna give you the fast action anime fights and not the tag your it kinda fighting style

@blackzangetsu716

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion in my opinion as long as it has a good plot and story and good lore its fine with me

Hope your channel BLOWS UP. Too good to only have 300 subs!! #subbed

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I'm really appreciative of everyone that has paid me any attention so far. The journey begins with a single step and I intend to go for far longer than a thousand miles.

well.. I wanted a full combat FF game since Nomura switched to V13 and we thought were getting FF x KH. So honestly, getting something way more in depth than KH2FM with DMC5 direction is probably the next best thing. Action games have an extremely high skill ceiling, and the game will have you unlock abilities as you get through the game obviously. -- I think youre too quick to judge cause you miss older FF, but FF has always been about innovation and trying new things. I trust Yoshi P, I think Endwalker and ShadowBringers is probably the best FF duology story in the entire series and nothing comes close to it in terms of depth. We still have our old school RPGs being made for us like Octopath 2 , Bravely, so that scratch is there when it needs to be itched.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

If the systems were new, that would be one of my concerns gone - but as its a repurposing of an existing system its a shame. It is true, there are other franchises that can be gone to instead. Begs the question why call it Final Fantasy XVI if its a reboot, just go with Final Fantasy.

@renereyes2648

Жыл бұрын

​@@Arkaledion how is it a reboot when every game in the series is fundamentally different.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That was the subject of this video. Feel free to rewatch.

I hate that turn based combat is so unpopular nowadays. It's by far my favourite type of combat, it makes battles feel so much more interesting when you have to think about what you're doing. Action games to me are boring, you end up doing the same combos over and over again, and by the 10th fight it's not engaging anymore. Great video dude

@hunterstarmech

Жыл бұрын

Turn based was only relevant because of the limitations on the hardware back when they were made, there’s no challenge, stimulation or even feeling what’s at stake story wise when you have an infinite amount of time between every single move. Most people only spam moves when they either aren’t encourage to try or don’t know how to think past that. But some action games require active thinking when it’s actually engaging you in the combat system so it’s understandable that some people just can’t keep up. Considering how far back FF and it’s fans go there’s no other game more susceptible to an older generation not being able to keep up gameplay or time wise anymore

@LN.2233

Жыл бұрын

That's why it's unpopular. Turn based is slow, and relatively boring in comparison to real time games. When you have unlimited time to do one thing in an abstract manner, people are gonna check out.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

"Chess is slow and boring". "American Football is slow and boring". "Civilization VI is slow and boring". Although I'm not talking about turnbased for this video, it's such a closeminded and shortsighted perspective.

@Guy811

Жыл бұрын

​@@hunterstarmech ​ I play competitive games most of the time. I just like to chill out and play a turned based RPG occasionally, wtf is wrong with that? Saying action games "require active thinking" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. How much "active thinking" are you doing spamming the same combo for the 50th time? Plus there's literally auto combos in FF16 so your point is invalid. No single player game is hard, go play Valorant/CS, League, Fortnite if you want to actually challenge yourself. Don't sit here and act all high and mighty because some prefer turn based over real time for single player. And bro it's a fucking game, who cares how long a turn takes? There's dissonance between the gameplay and the cutscenes in every game ever, doesn't make it have any less value.

@LN.2233

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion American football is barely comparable to a turn-based final fantasy, its more dynamic than that. Yes, Chess is kinda slow. Probably why it's not as popular as many other sports.

You need to let go

(not seen your followups yet however) i think this is an interesting piece, however even though the concerns about 'where the game might reduce it's impact or let things slide' are in my opinion themselves parts that games like dmc struggle with. even in dmc it's like "yes, how do you make an interesting game with a protag as op as dante?" (and the answer they seem to have settled on is.. nero + switching to "new" characters) and that make it an challenge for the development and identity of the any legacy game, in which, the change for final fantasy to more of a spectacle fighter is something im open for (how im a spectacle fighter fan) like im interested in how another studio will try to adapt the dmc fighting system, a brawler type system not really seen mass produced since the ps2 days but calling it the equivalent to a donut seems a bit disingenuous, like dmc5 is the rare gem that makes the full spectacle fighter thing work, while most of that type of game miss the mark, adding pointless loot , baggage and stat elements (like the new god of wars, that would rather you navigate their terrible menu's and equip the nipplepiercing with +5 strength, then play the game) i get that it switching fully from the turn based system it will impact the relation of characters 'ingame' vs 'inuniverse' , but the corncerns or critisisms seem like like all around critiques against most mmo rpg style games (why don't in universe characters take care of every sidequest) if anything i get the hyping up the main character but i'd like it less if they set him up as "the coolest most badass strong character with god in his butt" and talk more about you know... his character XD although marketing wise the move to highlight the powerfantasy also makes sense i guess and those titans are fancy... ill be surprised if the combat gets near dmc terms, just hope it isn't an endless "smack the thing because you didn't equip the stronger stick and cape with +3% damage" i guess what im concluding is that the game (at the stage in this video) still needs to show me what is "devil may cry" about it , as it just seems more like "god of war 4" with gapclosers , and like god of war 4/5 even if the story is neat, it does come at the cost of feeling fully immersed / like gameplay land and cutscene land are the same place (although 5 did thor as an npc companion right imo, like just make him strong) in full i agree that the screen clutter of numbers is truly something that made me not wanna play ff16 as first, since i just have something against the numberclutter in games that remove the immersion in my opinion, minimalistic huds are where its at XD sorry if this seemed a bit rambly and from place to place , like the video though even if the conclusion seems a bit more like "i just wish we kept the gameplay from the older games, even if the true complaint is; i hope that the shift to empowering gameplay doesnt get too much in the way of having the story make sense"

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I think those games got away with it for the most part because they managed to harmonise character personalities, action and the low stakes story. The story obviously has bombastic things like unstoppable king of the underworld, but it still stays almost completely local. It isn't trying to show the greater ramifications to the world because no one cares. 4 was poorly received because Nero's personality of a morose loser didn't match the absolutely mental things players were having him do in combat. V on the other hand, as a brand new character, people love because his personality matches his combat style. My point there, as much as people think gameplay doesn't make any difference to story integrity and such are wrong. It really doesn't matter to have a consistent through line. If you were watching a movie and the tiny scared little boy suddenly turned into a berserker in battle that it would completely rip you out of it. That menu navigation comment is one of my concerns with XVI, you can have six actions assigned at a time, which will mean a lot of navigation to the menus to switch your moveset. Funny thing you say on that with in universe characters and quests - XIV does have NPC parties trying to do the quests that you are in the beginning and they all get killed one by one. Nice attention to detail there, and completely missable if you only talk to quest givers and main characters. I'm with you on that - I think the lofty expectations of standing with DMC are setting up for disappointment. I think if the game is viewed more towards cinematic action with a little bit of complications they'll end up happier in the long run. Not rambly at all, I followed it through perfectly. That's a fair assessment at the end, because its definitely the second half that captures my feelings. I wish they would have gone whole hog as well, don't appeal to the old at all instead of these weird concessions being used.

This is GOOD content. it's really good content. makes me think, I didn't play many final fantasies, but the ones I did I loved, including their turn based combat, however.. I also love action games, so I'm just as excited for this one

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

In one way, if we're fans of both types of game we're in for a treat. I'm sure I will enjoy this when it hits, even if it isn't something I would have said I wanted from the series.

Minor issues everywhere here, this game is gonna be epic, a good change to the series

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully it will be. I'm just concerned it trying to appease RPG fans as well will limit its true potential versus just embracing full action mode.

@MisterTraps

Жыл бұрын

If you like it, then I really hope you enjoy it to the fullest. I agree with this video so much on the other hand. I just want Squarenix to stop making games and just make movies and update ff14 every month.

You know that other FF game where the main character had an overwhelming hidden power? Yeah, the one and only... FF6, Terra was leagues above every other character, and her weakness was not physical but psychological. The devs are too worried about the bread audience instead of focusing on the true FF fans, they want to attract every type of gamer out there which will obviously affect the core spirit of the franchise.... its like FF its losing its identity. I am not saying that FFVXI is going to be a bad game, its just like I am afraid it wont feel like a main FF game

@J_A_P_E

Жыл бұрын

Yea, Japanese action games are such a popular genre that SE is chasing after the lemmings... gtfo If YoshiP was really chasing trends he'd try to mimic Elden Ring and GoW

@Sacrengard

Жыл бұрын

@@J_A_P_E like if Devil May Cry was not a trend.... and going the Elden Ring route would be making the same mistake as FF15... so it makes sense SE tries to stay away from open worlds. Besides, we havent seen FF6 yet, who knows if its going to have GoW elements in it... think a little bit

@J_A_P_E

Жыл бұрын

@@Sacrengard Where are all the DMC clones and when are big publishers gonna start copying Japanese action games, because I'd like to play some if its such a hot trend in gaming right now

@Sacrengard

Жыл бұрын

@@J_A_P_E what are you even talking about? what DMC clones??? you think these "clones" are what makes a trend or vice versa? you are making zero sense rn... or are you simply asking is for action games similar to DMC?

@dice5709

Жыл бұрын

@@J_A_P_E They don't copy them because they try to appeal to non gamers and sjws. Good example would be Tlou2 and Forspoken. The Western gaming industry just doesn't have a clue and also rather wants to make money quick with their shitty liveservice games. They rather bring out halfbaked games with battlepasses and lootboxes and a lot of people are addicted to that shit. Honestly gaming shouldn't be in the same room as gambling. That's were I also have to call out eastern "game developers" with their shitty gachas but atleast the eastern cashgrabs look better.

I would like to counter your point of "The numbers are visual noise that block the action". I wouldn't say it's entirely untrue, but I would make the argument that seeing the numbers, and seeing them get bigger when you do a powerful attack, or equip a new piece of gear would provide a positive chemical reaction in the brain, a dopamine rush of sorts. I personally love damage splash numbers for this reason, and will enable them in any game that gives me the option.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

That's an interesting angle I hadn't thought about. Almost like having a big explosion, the number contextualises how powerful the explosion actually was.

@tdc9009

Жыл бұрын

@@Arkaledion Pretty much, also provides more immediate feedback for a status upgrade. Much easier to understand "I am now doing 36 damage per hit as opposed to 30" compared to "I think the enemies die a little quicker when I use this sword"

This video is making assumptions about a narrative we don't know about. Some good points though .

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Oh absolutely, the dream would be that I'm completely wrong about those assumptions and we're all blown away. Thank you.

Thank you for covering this. That is what I truly hated about 16 combat system direction. Me personally, if it was like Final Fantasy 7, I would have okay. But totally removing that really a slap in the face to me who was used to that strategical-ish combat.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

VII Remake felt like a glorious compromise. I really hope they don't get any big ideas with the combat system in Rebirth

I came into this video thinking I’d be disagreeing with you, but instead I feel like we are on the same page at least lol. I’m worried that they are trimming away a lot of the side content, which is important to me, and then they are going to blame it all on, “the busy gamers of today”. Other people’s schedules aren’t my problem and I don’t want to have my game slimmed down to make up for these “other people”. It’s a dangerous route to go because then you end up paying top dollar, in this case $70, for a streamlined experience, which I definitely do not want. People make time for things that are important to them and I don’t want other people’s time constraints impacting my play through. It leads to excuses for devs to make less game for more buck.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

It's one of those things that shows they're confused about the market. Looking at achievement or trophy data shows that the majority of players don't finish a game, don't come anywhere near close. Although in games like Elden Ring the percentage of completion is way higher because that audience loves to fall into the world. Final Fantasy players love to fall into the worlds, so hopefully its being left to being surprise the depth of the side material. Hopefully.

I'm a new Final Fantasy player. 15 was my first. Going back and playing through them I all and I am loving them all. I wonder how hard it would be to make Final Fantasy games like 1-6 though. As much as I like the newer games, it would be cool to have 2D turn based games in between mainline entries.

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

I could see there being a Final Fantasy Classic spin off series - depends on how well the pixel remasters do, they haven't really sold huge amounts so I can see Square Enix ruling being no more interest for it. Octopath and Bravely do reasonably well.

What a very well-made video, truly, you have given me so many things to disagree with you about. Thank you.

Nice video and well put together 👍🏾

@Arkaledion

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for taking the time to say and I'm glad you enjoyed.