Can we please have him more often!

Please more Shedler on other personality styles!!!! ❤

Hoorray!!! Thanks you so much for the much needed Shedler-booster-interview! I no longer feel abandoned, and am now securely attached ;)

@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939

Жыл бұрын

Lol 😂 I feel my Shedler connection is growing so you are good.

@SylviabombsmithUjhy75bd34

Жыл бұрын

@@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939 Shedler is actually perfectly positioned here to talk on the subject matter of narcissism, as he is the only clinical researcher (that I'm aware of) who feels it necessary to include a half page portrate picture of himself on the second page of his seminal article "The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy" 🤣🤭🤔 However, I would contend/posit that the Shedster actually embodies a "healthy" narcissism, as he has actually accomplished great works opposed to the (undeserving) feelings of importance that one feels entitled to due to some fantasy they might have.

@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939

Жыл бұрын

You realize that journal requires that right? Your transference to him deepens 😂

@SylviabombsmithUjhy75bd34

Жыл бұрын

@@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939 damm, you got me there good doctor. I was not aware of that. The lol is on me!

@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939

Жыл бұрын

@@SylviabombsmithUjhy75bd34 I was hoping to say what I did with a sense of humor, which given your emojis I will imagine you are connecting with!

How refresing and what a relief, to listen to someone talk about the value of psychoanalytical and psychodynamic theory and approaches at a time when it has almost become a sin to even mention it. Thank you ;)

Jonathan Shedler is amaaaaazing.

As both a researcher and psychotherapist, Dr. Shedler is indispensable. Great interview on a clinically important and misunderstood topic.

more episodes with him pls

A very interesting discussion... thanks for providing this very valuable content!🙂 You should definitely have Shedler back!😋

I really enjoyed this. Thank you Seth Macfarlane for interviewing Jonathan 🤭

I see the name Shedler. I click. I’m a simple guy.

I'm so grateful for this interview. Cannot express how much I admire dr Shedler (and his work pointing on the importance of psychoanalitically oriented therapies too 🙃😉 ) .In combination with your voice and exquisite warm connection created with your guest it is a true feast ! I crave more ...

About the patient attacking the therapist: a more humane way to understand that is that the patient is trying to put the therapist in his place to check how the therapist copes from there. Our hope is that the therapist will do better than us. But we are never certain enough. So we push more an more. This is an impossible project. The therapist would have to be destroyed and cope well at the same time.

Great show!

@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939

Жыл бұрын

Thank you 🙏

@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye

9 ай бұрын

@@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939 I am sorry lI am just discovering this channel. I guess I shoulg be thankful but I have only landed here yesterday and the content disapointed me yet again. Now many of the things are wrote are a bit edgy but I mean everything and do not share my views to be adimired, hated or to be provocative. I am raising or discussing real issues. I can litterally not stand any complaint or vilifying comment about the NPD on the part of professionals We are a pain in the arse and therapists know what they get themselves into.. We don't do it on purpose. Now please when you have time, I would apreciate if you went through my comments and please share with Dr Shedler. We cannot be treated by therapists who behave like 'victims' on social media, complaining about us being this and that. Such as us idealizing the therapist but not for the therapist....but for us. And this constant implicit allusion to something vile in us. With a continuum supporting this notion. We can feel your contempt. But again I think we need another approach. I could explain why after more than 20 years in therapy. Thank you.o

We are locked in. It is not pleasant.

I wish every cent I owe of my outrageous student debt was spent on Jonathan as my professor. I would be overjoyed!

@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939

Жыл бұрын

There is still time to fund more episodes 😜

@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye

9 ай бұрын

@@psychiatrypsychotherapy6939 Hi, I am not ha ppy with my other comment. It is a bit too aggressive and disorganized. Also I haven't watched the whole video. Got triggered by Prof. Shedler' s use of the label 'personality style' and by the explanation that followed. I don't mean to be antagonistic. Nor do I want NPD to be something special. I just feel that it works differently to other PDs. but partly because P Ds are not really making sense.. Avoidance is a trait not a PD. Studies have shown that Av PDs are as resistant to therapy as NPD. Looks like these patients are vulnerable NPDs. Avoidance as a trait can be found across the three clusters. Another example: what would it mean for someone to be healthily borderline? Doesn't work. Also, at what point would narcissism on the spectrum? And why? And what about those exhibiting more narcissism than healthy individuals? What is the reason? I am slowly becoming aware that the filed of psychodynamics is partly responsible for the actual craze agianst NPD. The continuum ending with 'evil' is a shame and it looks like the poor job done by the DSM might be due to ego problems or even a total divide within the field, preventing collaboration and resulting in a disorder everybody, including experts, interpret the way they want, with patients paying the price. The reason why Greenberg may not consider NPD as a disorder could be due to his representation of NPD as the arrogant 9 criteria NPD guy . Nobody knows whot that manspreading guy is it would seem. He could be an APD or NPD or a jerk. Who was the grandiose patient zero? The majority of NPDs are covrert and for this reason diagnosed with BPD or AvoidantPD. Therapists seem to overlook the update to the DSM and its dimensional appraoch which addresses construct issues, such as how the person sees the world , derive their sense of self....which should also be used to inform a diagnosis. I believe that Kernberg's speculative narrative makes sense expecially as presented by Diamond. Kernberg uses too many words that make me feel like a demon. Diamond is easier to follow but also suggests that there is something wrong about us.. Their explanation makes sense to me and is the key to understanding our resistance in therapy. I was 20 years in therapy. Made my psychiatrist hopeless. He was very good but it didn't work I have understood something the other team doesn^t seem to be aware of which I wish they would hear because that would help them better understand the failure to connect. I am a nice woman living in Western Europe ith NPD 53 years old two kids a husband I was not able to accept for who he was (not good enough for me and it is not what you all mean - entitlement is not about thinking of oneself superior - at least not in pathological NPD - yet another misconception directly coming from the field. I can expand. Someone agreable, antagonistic and confused by mixed intents but always starting out beeing generous and prefering discussions to being right. A lot to share Nothing self-serving. A lot of questions as well regarding this multi-headed animal. I have grown passionate with PDs. I understand the complexity around the concept of 'narcissism'. I am also frustrated. Many ASPDs receive abn NPD diagnosis. What is this supposed to mean? I believe that NPD can be cured providing therapists have an understanding of the psychology and I don't believe psychoanalysis can work with us.

At 52mins we get the gold we’re looking for. Thank you.

About idealization. I don't relate to this exploitative explanation although surely the idealization is self-serving. What else can it be? I never really idealized my psychiatrist or not for long andn not for my image although I was totally preoccupied about my image and had dreams of grandeur. And yes we see our therapist as an object. Sounds like it's news to you.

I would be interested to hear if Shedler would stand by his descriptions of 'splitting', projecting and so on, if he had the whole picture (refers to the culture wars). Some psychiatrists are a little quick to label people, based on very selective information.

@marcodallolio9746

5 ай бұрын

That's literally the job, quickly categorize individuals based on the dms and then prescribe the relevant meds, and try to keep the person on them for as long possible. That's the role of psychiatrist today, nothing more

Now I have an explanation as to why we fail to connect to the therapist and others. You all miss a piece of the puzzle.

Hi, I am not ha ppy with my other comment. It is a bit too aggressive and disorganized. Also I haven't watched the whole video. Got triggered by Prof. Shedler' s use of the label 'personality style' and by the explanation that followed. I don't mean to be antagonistic. Nor do I want NPD to be something special. I just feel that it works differently to other PDs. but partly because P Ds are not really making sense.. Avoidance is a trait not a PD. Studies have shown that Av PDs are as resistant to therapy as NPD. Looks like these patients are vulnerable NPDs. Avoidance as a trait can be found across the three clusters. Another example: what would it mean for someone to be healthily borderline? Doesn't work. Also, at what point would narcissism on the spectrum? And why? And what about those exhibiting more narcissism than healthy individuals? What is the reason? I am slowly becoming aware that the filed of psychodynamics is partly responsible for the actual craze agianst NPD. The continuum ending with 'evil' is a shame and it looks like the poor job done by the DSM might be due to ego problems or even a total divide within the field, preventing collaboration and resulting in a disorder everybody, including experts, interpret the way they want, with patients paying the price. The reason why Greenberg may not consider NPD as a disorder could be due to his representation of NPD as the arrogant 9 criteria NPD guy . Nobody knows whot that manspreading guy is it would seem. He could be an APD or NPD or a jerk. Who was the grandiose patient zero? The majority of NPDs are covrert and for this reason diagnosed with BPD or AvoidantPD. Therapists seem to overlook the update to the DSM and its dimensional appraoch which addresses construct issues, such as how the person sees the world , derive their sense of self....which should also be used to inform a diagnosis. I believe that Kernberg's speculative narrative makes sense expecially as presented by Diamond. Kernberg uses too many words that make me feel like a demon. Diamond is easier to follow but also suggests that there is something wrong about us.. Their explanation makes sense to me and is the key to understanding our resistance in therapy. I was 20 years in therapy. Made my psychiatrist hopeless. He was very good but it didn't work I have understood something the other team doesn^t seem to be aware of which I wish they would hear because that would help them better understand the failure to connect. I am a nice woman living in Western Europe ith NPD 53 years old two kids a husband I was not able to accept for who he was (not good enough for me and it is not what you all mean - entitlement is not about thinking of oneself superior - at least not in pathological NPD - yet another misconception directly coming from the field. I can expand. Someone agreable, antagonistic and confused by mixed intents but always starting out beeing generous and prefering discussions to being right. A lot to share Nothing self-serving. A lot of questions as well regarding this multi-headed animal. I have grown passionate with PDs. I understand the complexity around the concept of 'narcissism'. I am also frustrated. Many ASPDs receive abn NPD diagnosis. What is this supposed to mean? I believe that NPD can be cured providing therapists have an understanding of the psychology and I don't believe psychoanalysis can work with us.

I am an NPD real one. Why replace ‘disorder’ by ‘style’? I think this approach might increase the stigma on NPD as individuals unwilling to change their bad ‘adaptations’ for healthier ones, as if they were bad habits. This is nonsense an makes me feel very angry and superior which I absolutely hate to feel. I am not optimistic for the future. Experts are like 'victims', going by self-serving narratives, deciding what NPD is to the detriment of everybody really. No, NPD is not a personality style, just like paranoid PD and schizoid PD aren't either. Also, why validate Kernberg’s infamous continuum, the only continuum running from 'healthy' to 'malignant' across the 3 clusters but reject the narrative, the psychological drama that played out early on that led to a very rigid construct NPDs are stuck in? The coping mechanisms’ narrative doesn’t work. I know it for a fact and can prove it. And neither does the continuum. I heard Greenberg express his disbelief in NPD as well. Same continuum thing. He gave an example about getting old and having a back ague and resisting the reality of getting older by denying the pain and persisting in doing thing as if of nothing. This is short of insulting. Yes NPD is multi-headed. Healthy narcissism is the ego-booster we use to go to a first date or job interview. Or as indeed a personality marked by unrealistic expectations. A friend of mine, honest and possibly a bit autistic, has unrealistic expectations, unpredictable sometimes. She was adored, and abruptly dropped by a narcissistic father when she started to develop her personality. She was beaten up by her brother as a child and was deeply ashamed and mad at herself for having been a victim, where others would have retrieved in victimhood. She comes across as haughty but doesn’t see herself that way. Yet, she has unrealistic expectations for her age, such as getting deeply upset that nobody should sing happy birthday when the cake is brought to the table, guests just having failed to notice, me included, that she had been expecting attention and celebration. More than a whim, something running deep, but still I don’t really see a construct in her case. By laymen views she is the textbook narcissist. I would speak of a personality style in her case. She seems unconsciously nostalgic of that Golden Age she experiences with her Dad. And also a difficulty picking up social cues. B This is not nothing to do with the severity of NPD, Sociopaths are terrified of losing face. They see others as enemies. Is a mark of pathological narcissism. In their case, grandiosity looks like coping mechanism meant to control others and that they could find better adaptations. But then maybe grandiosity is part of the original problem and thus part of the construct. No idea. There is a type of real NPD, the realest, which is not reported anywhere except by women who dated one, almost delusional, territorial and needing to occupy the center, looking for something very specific in the partner, that I have figured out. This the famous type who idealizes, devalues, discards. Reminding me of Russell Brand. The woman doesn’t exist really. They will never become aware and it's better this way, for them. The 2 conflicting sides theory makes no sense. So far, Kernberg is correct in my view, except that his contempt is dangerous for us. The vocabulary he uses is dehumanizing and the narrative is making us look deliberately evil and exploitative (as babies). I don’t look for supplies in my life. Tired of this exploitative narrative. And the malignant. An orange politician now for the big team. NPD now exploited for political reasons. Now, after one year on the web, having finally seen the contempt on the face and in the tone of people I admired, not withstanding the hatred and lies spread by corrupt people, I have come to the conclusion that I am a decent person. I don’t believe in therapy. We need other approaches, using our hand and body, learning to draw, dance, sing.... and some advice or guidance and someone to talk to, but not you all. I don’t mean to be disagreeable, but the setting, this one to one thing, being expected to be receptive the same way mature and healthy patients are, while unable to project ourselves into the adult world, not even having a clue this is the issue - neither do you BTW - all this makes us feel like failures and you all as the judges, which you are in fact. So, who qualifies for NPD? Nobody knows. For my type: Kurt Cobain and Amy Winehouse and a less glorious one (maybe): Goebbels. All this vagueness + the evil continuum is partly what allows the craze to grow in the open. Grandiosity might be purely compensatory in non-disorders, but in NPD, whatever the type, the person is not compensating on a day-to-day basis. The 'solution' was found in early childhood. NPDs are more than just the object of a craze but commodities of a real juicy business on KZread. You are right about 'victims'. who need their daily fix of hatred and the reassurance that they are not the 'evil' ones since the narcissist is. Who is exploited? There are no spaces online for us online and no summitry coming to our defense.to put a halt to this madness. The hatred and misinformation is overwhelming. Just visit Ramani, Grannon, Carter and Co. and replace 'narcissist' by another word of your choice, such as 'Jew' or 'black' or 'gay'. It is just unacceptable. Who is supposed to combat this? We weight nothing. I am impressed to see the growth and spread of hatred in total impunity. And yes, the DSM does a poor job although the dimensional approach is promising. I hope it will be continued. I hope we won't be flattened like in the ICD, reduced to a bunch of traits. Which is already almost the case. I am genuinely fascinated by PDs, about the different forms of narcissisms and their role, whether double constructs such as NPd/APDS are possible, but with such a vague concept of NPD, how can studies can even be started, who are the candidates selected? NPDs? Which type? ASPDs? Bye sorry for spelling or typos. Thank you for reading.

@Aka47xxx

8 ай бұрын

I'm new to this world of psychiatry. But I currently work in forensics as a psych resident... So I've seen examples to try and understand the concept of narcissism/NPD. I do also question the framework we house these personalities in. Normal/evil etc. I guess the issues arise when these personalities start objectively 'taking' from others, yknow just extract value and try and get the upper hand..I do get that they are also suffering in their own way... Tbh it's kinda meaningless outside of forensic settings, as there's no policing of personality unless you commit serious crimes. In real life, I think petty narcissism is brief and rife, but very few who go as far as to persistently exploit others. What to do with those who commit no crime but 'take' from others? The borderline and antisocial PD constructs get far more attention because they come to the attention of authorities more via hospital/suicide attempt or police/crime etc. NPD doesn't and so there's an argument that it's only subjectively 'bad behaviour'. I think everyone has the ability to be narcissistic, but with a select few who are so fixed in their thinking that they exploit and lack remorse (in a way that is different to antisocial PD or BPD). I think teaching any PD patient the birds eye view of the various theories behind their actions, is vital to allowing any change or expansion of the fixed view for the NPD. But you can't make someone see through therapy (via listening), so there's always a chance that they don't want to/cant change, and are currently stuck in a coping mechanism. They have to somehwat seek help due to a big problem at work etc. Also physical health, social, financial and legal pressures need to be relieved before a patient can put enough time and effort into changing their thinking. Ultimately, in psychiatry it's the equivalent of paddling around in the baby pool, compared to say psychosis where the illness has serious consequences and severe behaviour from the norm. Failed NPD therapy is the norm. Failed psychosis treatment can be deadly.

@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye

8 ай бұрын

@@Aka47xxx How can I help you?

He would not let you talk at all! He might be the.. what’s the word..

Idk- this was herky jerky for me- interviewer trying to talk, Interviewed interrupting, umms and ahhs about drove me outta my gord. Strange ways of putting things and had to turn it off when he started talking about the Star Trek thing.

Nobody has asked therapists to work with us. You complain about being ill- treated by the NPD and being prevented from doing whatever usualy works. It is awfully difficult for me to get the message across although I am the object of this discussion. You are not hearing me. You all draw your own conclusions. We attack to punish of course. Nope. We fail to connect. Our fault. How about being humble and stop putting the blame on us for not rresponding the way normal people would. You are supporting our own self-image that we are evil. Do you realize how heavy this is to carry?

This was one of the worst podcasts I have ever heard on the topic. Clearly this man either is a narcissist himself, or has never been affected by a true narcissist.

@pgio2000

Жыл бұрын

Elaborate please

@JosephMIacobucci

11 ай бұрын

I believe he did a wonderful job. What bothered you about Schedlers perspective?

@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye

9 ай бұрын

@@JosephMIacobucci You didn' t ask me, but I posted a comment about what bothered me as an NPD.

@JosephMIacobucci

9 ай бұрын

@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye ?

@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye

9 ай бұрын

@@JosephMIacobucci Yes, do we know each other?