This was a blast! Thanks so much for inviting me. We are now brothers until we go back to the mud.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! Thanks so much, brother, for being there! Now we just need cool warrior nicknames.

@jasonlockwood7992

3 жыл бұрын

Just an FYI, Quai is pronounced "key." Here in Sydney, we have an area of the city near the Opera House, called Circular Quay, and tourists often pronounce it "kway."

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonlockwood7992 The English language is full of surprises, isn’t it?

@jasonlockwood7992

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Oh my, yes. I recall a real challenge of mine when I taught English in Slovakia (circa 1992-93) was WHICH variant to teach. The expectation was British, but as an American guy who had also lived in Canada, it was all up in the air. I settled on “international” English, which doesn’t really exist, but is rather a hodgepodge of everything the English-speaking world has to offer.

@jasonlockwood7992

3 жыл бұрын

All this to say: I think it’s fantastic that you’re a professor AND are doing fun and engaging reviews and discussion of fantasy. It feels like a vindication of all of us who were book nerds as kids. Keep doing what you’re doing!

Thank you so much once again for having me as a guest here. It was my first time being a guest, and I thoroughly enjoyed my experience chatting with all of you! :)

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

It was a huge honor to have you there , Petrik! Thanks, as always, for your insights!

@briankovich9384

2 жыл бұрын

Great to see such great booktubers coming together! Hope more is to come!

Alright 👍 Look at those cool dudes 😎 This was too much fun. Humbled to of been among you fellows

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

We do look pretty badass, don’t we? It was a real privilege and pleasure to have you there enriching the discussion, Mark!

@slowlyred2082

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy yes we do. Always a pleasure my friend

@briankovich9384

2 жыл бұрын

More of these, please!

The epic collab on a series that has been recommended to me by so many people. Really appreciate the information!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Our pleasure, Iskar! It's funny -- even though I know you're very well read in fantasy in general (I just watched your book tour, after all!), I always get an extra happy surprise when I see you comment on anything outside of Malazan (and it goes without saying that I love your Malazan related comments too). Such is the strength of my association between Malazan and you, but it's always awesome to see your burning bridge icon on my channel. I think you might enjoy First Law!

I'm currently reading Before They Are Hanged and I'm loving it! It would be weird if I'm not, you have to be realistic about these things after all :P

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Well said! Thanks for watching, and I'm glad you're loving First Law so far!

On the topic of softer magic systems, I feel like even in Sanderson books, it's the mystery of not knowing how the magic systems works yet (but learning about it throughout the series) that is most interesting. A softer magic system like in the First Law has that mystery inherent to the way it's written.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent point! Sanderson does an admirable job of weaving his magic system into the plot, and part of the fun for the reader is finding out what the magic can do along with the characters. Thanks for that!

@jamesfrederick.

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah great point I wanted to comment that

You're such a good moderator, Philip. This was a real treat to the fantasy booktube fan community. Thank you guys! I was nodding my head along with you the whole time.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Danny! It's easy to moderate with those three, who all know their books, but being in the classroom has definitely taught me a bit about moderating a discussion, which I'm sure you can relate to. Glad you enjoyed the discussion!

@Danny_Matson

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Haha, I wish. The only moderating conversation I do teaching kids English in Japan is saying "Okay, switch with your partner!" So now student A says "What color do you like?" and student B answers instead of vice versa. Very deep, engrossing conversation.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@Danny_Matson Ha ha! Well, every conversation has to start somewhere, right? I speak a few languages about as well as a four or five year old native speaker, and I've often found that, "What color do you like?" gets me pretty far. Or, at least it puts a grin on the face of the other person (unless he or she happens to be a four or five year old, and then the conversation really gets going).

lol... my favorite booktubers talking about one of my favorite series of all time. love it.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I’m so glad we could create something that other people enjoy - I certainly enjoyed being in the discussion!

This was fantastic! Thanks to all four of you for your time and knowledgeable commentary on what seems to be a fun series! I need to get to it soon.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Allen! I’m really looking forward to finding out what you think of Abercrombie’s First Law books. I think I’ll be a tiny bit sad if you don’t like them (no pressure), but I’m anticipating a great meeting of the minds between Abercrombie and The King’s Voice!

Great discussion, guys. I'm only halfway through Before They Are Hanged, but I nodded my head throughout your discussion. One thing to note, and I'd be open to discussion on this: a major reason Abercrombie’s humour works so well is because he's British. He comes from a culture where dark, sardonic wit is commonplace. American readers may not get it (and it's why Americans didn't get Monty Python), but it requires a certain sensibility to enjoy Abercrombie's books fully. I'm American-born, but I've spent a lot of time in the UK and have lived in Australia for the past 12 years. Aussies have a similarly dry wit, so it makes perfect sense to me.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

That’s a valid observation, I think. I’ve spent some time in the U.K. as well and agree that the humor there tends to be more sardonic. There’s definitely a subset of American culture that loves that sort of humor too. When I was in high school in the 80s, there was a small group of us (mostly the cross country team) who loved Monty Python. We were the oddballs, though. Thanks for watching!

@jasonlockwood7992

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes, definitely. I was a Python fan as a high schooler in the 80s (class of ‘84 still rules! Haha), and there were a select group of kids who were into it, as well.

Good talk guys, thanks! Was fun to watch even if you're preaching to the choir here. Abercrombie is a fun guy and his books are all fantastic. Looking forward to more of these discussions, keep on rockin' and readin' 🤘

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Rob! It was a lot of fun, and I hope more people will catch on that Abercrombie's books are amazing. It was fun to quote you in the video too -- excellent ideas deserve to be heard!

@robpaul7544

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy It was fun to be involved in the discussion, very indirectly 😅 And I think Abercrombie is doing pretty well in the community - but he would also agree that more discussion means more buzz, which sells more books, thus making Lord Grimdark's lot even better. We have to be realistic about such things.. 😉

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@robpaul7544 Ha ha! In which case, I’m happy to do my little bit to promote his books - I’d love to read more of them!

Great discussion and it’s nice to listen to individuals who are truly passionate for the works of an author.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! I appreciate you watching, Francois, and your kind words of encouragement always give me a smile.

This was a really fun discussion. I hope you guys will do more of them!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I'm trying to line up more of these discussions since I find them both enjoyable and informative for myself, and it's my hope that viewers will get a lot from them. I'm so glad you watched and enjoyed it!

What a great discussion. I really enjoyed listening to all of your views on these fantastic books. I'm an admirer of all of your channels and would love to hear more from you all in the future as a group.😊

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, and I appreciate you watching! I'll keep trying to arrange these group chats -- I really enjoy them too.

Just finished Last Argument of Kings...nobody to talk to about it....glad these vids are here!...Y'all should do a spoiler filled one!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Happy to oblige! I think we’ll have to meet up again when The Wisdom of Crowds comes out in September.

I'm reading The Last Argument of Kings - loved hearing all your thoughts on Joe's books! Looking forward to continuing on with First Law!!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion! I hope you enjoy the end of the First Law Trilogy, which is fantastic, and the best part is Abercrombie’s books keep getting even better.

@laurenm2111

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I can only imagine that they do!!

This was a great discussion to listen to, would love to see a sequel after you all have read The Wisdom of Crowds. And @Mike's Book Reviews I can say that I own all his books in physics, digital form and audiobook so I have done everything I can so his gets money, and I mean all his books not just The first law series.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

There are plans for Age of Madness discussions underway! Late September and early October will be full of First Law content. I can't wait to read The Wisdom of Crowds!

@henriksorensen82

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I looking forward to that. But the important question is will it be this awesome quartet?

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@henriksorensen82 A slightly different quartet, I’m afraid, though I’m actually very excited for the coming discussions!

@henriksorensen82

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'm sure I will awesome

Thanks for hosting this great discussion, Philip! My mind was blown by the insight of the first viewer definition of grimdark you read out. I am surprised how poorly The Blade Itself tends to be rated, compared to the other books. For me there was so much joy in discovering the characters that it didn't matter that the action didn't advance in leaps and bounds. But I guess that just goes to show that different people get different things out of books!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

The Blade Itself hooked me from page one. Like you, I enjoyed the characters so much that I didn’t think much about where they were going. Thanks for watching, Heather!

This was a very good discussion, well moderated.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for watching, and I'm glad you enjoyed it!

That was a great discussion about my favourite book series. Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts on it! What makes the First Law Trilogy outstanding for me personally is actually the character of Logen Ninefingers. I'm a rather calm and rational guy myself and the way Logen is thinking and discoveres the world could be me. I can even relate to his rage outbursts. To clear things up I am not a mass murderer I actually never hurt anyone physically in my life. To understand why even the rage aspect struck a chord with me I want to share a story of my life. I work as a programmer in a small software company. Over time the source code became more and more an unmaintenable mess. The productivity dropped to zero and every change resulted in several new bugs. I struggled a long time to change things for the better just like Logen tries to be a better man. And as with Logens efforts things got worse and worse. Then one day I kind of was the happiest man alive because I resolved a major problem which took me more than 2 years of hard work. That was a mountain of shit I digged away. But then to my disgust I discovered that in the meantime my colleages piled up a dozen new mountains of shit. I am really hard to upset but that was more than I could bear and I suddenly completely lost control and went berserk. I didn't hurt anyone physically but I smashed half my office into pieces and raved against colleagues and chef alike what idiots and assholes the are. After I gained control again I felt really bad and miserable and regretted my rage outburst. The irony is after that almost everything improved. I thought I ruined everything that day but the opposite of it was the result. It was a kind of desperate wakeup call to my coworkers a hard lesson everyone understood. I would even claim that the company would not exist anymore without my rage outburst. Still I am all but proud of it and I still regret it.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

That’s an amazing story, Bernhard, complete with the cosmologically ironic ending that a little bit of destruction proved beneficial in the long run. Also, I can understand some frustration after two years of hard work being undermined by the carelessness of others! I love Logen too - one of my favorite characters in all of fantasy, perhaps because he’s so noble, flawed, and relatable. I’m so glad you enjoyed our discussion!

Sensational video, Philip!! If I had to rank Joe's books, then it would have to be: 1. Best Served Cold 2. The Heroes 3. Before they are hanged 4. The Blade itself 5. Last argument of Kings. I'm just about to finish Red country which is also very good and then - enter Age of Madness :)

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I also love the standalones, and that’s a solid ranking. I didn’t like Red County as much, but it’s still Abercrombie, which means it’s great. As for Age of Madness, it could become my favorite!

this was so cool! thanks for getting everyone together!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for watching!

it would be pretty cool to have one of these once you and mark finish the dark tower, with mike aswell!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Now that’s one excellent idea that I fully intend to follow up on!

@gustavolamego9913

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy awesome! glad I could be of help! I started the first law last week, and Im in the middle of the blade itself. its true that it doesnt have any plot so far, but Im enjoying it so much. Everyone says that glokta is their favorite but so far im enjoying logen more. Lets see if glokta will grow in my consideration by the end of this book hahaha. Great interview made me want to read more joe abercrombie after the trilogy

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@gustavolamego9913 Glad to hear you’re enjoying First Law so far. It gets better with every book!

This was great! Really convinced me to pick up Abercrombie’s work sooner. Characters are the number one thing I look for in books so First Law seems perfect.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

If characters are important to you, then First Law should go very well (I hope!). In my mind, Abercrombie is among the best character developers. Thanks so much for watching!

I love each an every one of you guys and follow all of your work. I love how diverse of a cast this is. Not in a traditional diversity way, but in personalities. Hopefully you guys will team up and do some more series discussions.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much, Andrew! It was a lot of fun to chat with those guys, and I agree with you that we brought some different personalities to the discussion. Just goes to show that the First Law books can appeal to all sorts! I'm planning more discussions, and I definitely would love some to include these three again.

Love this! One can never do too much Abercrombie chat! 😍 This colab is like a manly version of Worldhoppers!!😂😂

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! Well, I suppose we’re about as manly as you’re likely to get on BookTube 😁. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!

@ZamWeazle

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy A pleasure! 😊

Fantastic video. Thanks for the discussion

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad you enjoyed it, Austin!

i know this video is 2 years old but i recently found your channel and i love it! I wish there were more not old but older booktubers as i haven’t enjoyed any books recommended by the younger generation of booktubers! lol

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

I’m glad you enjoyed the chat, Brooke! We more experienced folks can bring something different to the table, I think. 😁

Great discussion. I'm like 300 hundred pages into the blade itself and loving it so far, and you guys are just saying it gets better and better. I can't wait. Amazing Philip

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

That’s awesome! Yes, in my opinion, each book gets better in the original trilogy, and I love the three standalones even more, and the latest trilogy is the best. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!

Philip, clearly I need to read comments on your videos because those were such eloquent thoughts regarding grim-dark! I noticed much of the discussion on what defines grim-dark was focused on content, which is significant, and I want to add something. When watching Mark's review of The Poppy War recently, he discussed how tone matters as much as content (which is why The Poppy War is not grim-dark). That was a light-bulb moment for me. Although I am not well-experienced with grim-dark (ASOIAF and Malazan 1-3 is the darkest material I've read), I imagine tone to be a very distinguishing feature. Tone is rarely discussed, but it strongly impacts how we experience a story. Mark, if you're reading this, know you have much more insight than you give yourself credit for. As someone who has only read The Blade Itself, I appreciated the encouragement to keep going. I really enjoyed the beginning and ending of the book, but I did struggle through some of late-middle parts. I also really appreciated when Mike and Mark discussed enjoying the books more over time (after finishing). That's been happening to me lately. Music is that way for me as well. I guess my love is more of a slow-burn as I get older. Sorry for such a long rambling comment! I'll just add that I'm excited to be subscribed to Petrik's channel and will definitely follow him on Goodreads. Love all your channels! Such a great discussion!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Johanna! Your comment is not the least bit rambly -- on the contrary, it's both much appreciated and full of some wonderful points! I'm glad our discussion has made you think about continuing with First Law. To me, the books get better and better, and I loved the original trilogy. Yes, my viewers (including you!) have taught me a lot with their comments -- one of the best things about having a BookTube channel, honestly. Always wonderful to hear from you!

@Johanna_reads

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you! It has always been my intention to keep going with the First Law books. I just got interrupted with my Memories of Ice loan arriving much earlier than expected and now all the November releases I've long been anticipating. This discussion definitely encourages me not to put it off for too long. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@Johanna_reads My pleasure!

Loved the chat. I’m disappointed that you all buy into the idea that magic = magicians. Logen is magical. He talks to spirits, he transforms into a berserker. Ferro is magical. The eaters are magical. All of that gets overlooked, again and again. On the flip side, Sanderson has yet to write a Gandalf/Pug type of wizard. In some ways, his books are more super-hero than Tolkien fantasy. And my favorite character in the series is Caul Shivers. Tremendous character arc, and I just love the last scene with him and Logen in Red Country.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Great points! Logen and Ferro are indeed magical, and I think you’re right that most readers tend to forget that because they don’t carry staffs that glow or wear pointy hats. Abercrombie actually divides Magic into three types, if my memory serves. The “demonic” type of magic (I’d have to look up the actual terms) that is present in Logen and Ferro is not super developed, but it’s magic nevertheless.

this is like seeing all my favorite super heroes in one movie

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! Thanks, Michael - I call Doctor Strange!

If a book features a protagonist that you should hate, but it makes you root for them instead, that's a book I will insta-love. This was a great discussion to watch guys. 👍

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Abercrombie is a master of getting his readers to love his characters- even, or especially, the ones you’d hate to encounter in real life. Thanks so much for watching!

@nelsonhoffman5922

3 жыл бұрын

so... this means American Psycho is pretty much Grimm Dark, then?

Excellent video and chat. Would love to see more of these videos going forward. You four gentlemen are my go to book tubers.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for stopping by! I'm hoping to do more of these collaborations in general -- as long as other BookTubers keep putting up with me!

Wow that was so much fun to watch. I’m hoping to finish the first trilogy by the end of the year. Thanks for sharing this collaboration with all of us Philip.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I’m so glad you enjoyed it, Chas! I’d love to hear your thoughts when you finish the trilogy if you do a review!

@BookishChas

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yes I’ll definitely be doing a review. I’ve been wanting to finish it for a while.

Just caught this! Sublime! Three of my favorite booktubers talking about one of my fav authors! #SlowlyRed #Petrik #Mike. I think I may have to follow one more! Great tube. Love ya all!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

So glad you enjoyed it! I had a fantastic time chatting with those three, and there will be more First Law discussions coming soon.

That was great! Highly encourage the practice of buying the book and the audio for Abercrombie. I preorder both kindle and audible copies of his stuff and Butcher’s Dresden Files books because both are so expertly written and narrated.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I've heard the First Law audio books are fantastic. Since I've never listened to an audiobook, I might start with the First Law, though that might spoil me for future audiobooks! I'll consider Dresden too since I'm on book three of that series (a long way to go!).

This has made me much more excited to get into this world!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I hope you'll enjoy the First Law books, and I'll be eager to hear your thoughts on them if you review them.

That was a good discussion. You did a wonderful job hosting. Thanks to you and your guests. Its fun to see the Booktubers I enjoy all in one place. I particularly enjoyed the three grim-dark definitions. They were extremely articulate and resonated with me. Honestly, I never put that much thought into it what grim-dark meant. I know some other authors were mentioned but I am curious to know everyone's recommended grim-dark authors. Based on this conversation, it seems there would be a good range. Currently, I am reading Before They Are Hanged. After The Blade Itself, I noticed there wasn't much of a plot but I just wanted to read more about these characters. They are too much fun to walk away from.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I don’t consider myself very well read in the grimdark sub-genre. The two authors I’ve read who are most commonly associated with grimdark are Abercrombie and Mark Lawrence. Some people might also say that George RR Martin’s ASOIAF series (unfinished, of course) has a lot in common with grimdark. I’d say Mark (Slowly Red) is the best equipped of us to recommend more grimdark titles. I agree that the viewers really did a great job of defining grimdark. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!

Hi guys, I’ve just watched this as I’m about to start on the blade itself today. This has been invaluable to put me in the right mind set before starting on this journey.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

So glad the video was helpful, and thanks for commenting! Enjoy First Law!

Great discussion! The favorite character part at the end got me to thinking. I love just about all of the characters, but I think that I like The Northmen as a whole as my favorite "character". I just love everything about them and find myself rooting for them against the Union all the time.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Of all the First Law characters, the Northmen seem the most vivid and earthy to me. I strongly suspect they are Abercrombie’s favorites to write!

I liked Bayaz the most fun the beginning. I loved the mystery around him and not knowing if I should trust trust him or not. I loved his wisdom and almost optimistic view of things and his angry outbursts made him very intriguing.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Bayaz is an amazing character. As you say, there’s an intriguing sense of mystery and danger about him. Someone who’s been around for thousands of years with that much power is bound to have some secrets!

Awesome discussion. Looking forward to the next Fireside chat.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! We'll try to keep them coming. For me, these discussions are what BookTube is all about.

Wow! When you mention the point about characters having distinct voices, it immediately made me think of Terry Pratchett. Very very different content, of course, but the mark of a great writer.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

True! Pratchett is up there in terms of humor too, though different, as you say. In fact, I feel like Pratchett is unique in the genre. Nothing I know of is quite like the Discworld books.

My favorite booktubers discussing my favorite series! (Aside from the Broken Empire) Y'all should do one of these for that trilogy too!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

An excellent idea! I’m hoping to have a Broken Empire discussion at some point. Thanks so much for watching and for the kind words!

Also, I absolutely enjoyed the shatteredsea. Yarvi is Glotka/Bayaz light... but just as manipulative.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll have to check out Shattered Sea someday!

This is who's who of Fantasy book reviewers! The ultimate war band just need Durfee to complete this legendary division!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! Brian Lee Durfee would be a welcome addition to the warband! Thanks for watching!

Abercrombie is criminally underrated. He should be as famous as Sanderson/Martin.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

I completely agree!

Readers are having complains about The Blade Itself. The plot is unseen because the main and sub characters command the plot forward. This is the reason why I love Joe Abercrombie. He is a fantasy author like no other.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I agree! Abercrombie is among the very best when it comes to character development- and humor, and action!

@deanryanmartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy His writing style is not descriptive-heavy too. I was done with the fourth book of Wheel of Time when I started The Blade Itself. When I finished TBI, I planned to read WoT Book 5 but I could not anymore. Joe's writing is a lot smoother from Robert Jordan.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@deanryanmartin You’re right - there’s a big difference in the amount of description between those two. I like WoT a lot, but I agree that the First Law books read much faster.

@deanryanmartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy The insights and conversations in First Law are unforgettable too. i don't have concrete ideas where Joe gets his insights while writing The Trouble With Peace.

@deanryanmartin

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I mean, he clearly shows and tells why there is a trouble with peace. It's not only a title for a fiction book. There's a higher form of reasoning behind it.

Loved the video! This may sound silly but I'm super happy for you that you can live out your passion and share it with people (not only in this format of four guys talking about what they love, but also sharing your videos with the You Tube community). Also, the fact that you seem to get so much positive feedback makes me very happy. I would so love to have people to talk to about that stuff like you 4 just did. There were so many times when I watched one of your videos, when I had to keep myself from writing a comment 'cause I felt like as soon as I would start writing I wouldn't know where to stop because there is so much I want to say and talk about. I’m also quite insecure about my English (When it comes to language (I have very high expectations and not speaking in my mother tongue makes me feel like I can't live up to my own demand) and especially my spelling… I really like how you said that we love Logan for the person he's trying to become. I can't praise Abercrombie enough for how well he accomplishes to make the reader feel that way, while making the motives seam so believable. It takes such a high level of understanding of the human nature from so many perspectives to not only display his character but also understand the view of the reader. I really think you can already like the blade itself for itself! I'm happy to report that I fell in love with Abercrombie with the first Couple of chapters of the 1st book. His characters their dialogue and his writing in general immediately made me feel at home. I'm listening to the audiobooks and it doesn't hurt that they are read by my favorite narrator that is also reading the Stephen King books and he just excels at finding the right tone and the right pacing to make these incredible characters feel even more real and believable. I actually have to say that I never really got why they had to find a name for this style of writing. For me “grim dark” was just when the characters felt like real human beings and not like bullet point stereotypes… I was just calling them well done characters… I never had the feeling of having to print a label on it. It really feels hard to express what I'm trying to say. Since Stephen King used to be my go to author when I was younger and kind of my touch stone when it comes to character work the Abercrombie books just feel like what I'm used to but in a really really good way. I really hope that you will find the chance to read the newer Elven books. The character work Hennen will display doesn't really stand short to Abercrombie’s work if you ask me, while often preserving the feel of heroic fantasy. I like the video so much that I can almost forgive Mike for not liking name of the wind! Kidding of Couse: I can never forgive someone who doesn't like kingkiller! :D Jokes aside: You 4 guys are extremely likable and it was a blast to follow your conversation!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! Consider yourself lucky, Jannis -- I have to forgive Mike for not liking Kingkiller AND Broken Empire! Kidding aside, it was fantastic to talk with all three of these gentlemen about First Law, and I loved all the insights they brought to the conversation. It's also fantastic to get your reactions. First of all, as an English professor, let me say that your written English surpasses that of the majority of native speakers with at least a high school education, so no worries on that account. Regarding Logen Ninefingers and Abercrombie's characters in general, I think one reason Abercrombie does such a great job with them is because he makes them relatable -- they have struggles that might be in a world that is made up and on a scale that is greater than we face, but struggles like trying to redefine yourself are something we all experience. His characters are also, like us, conflicted and vivid and complex. As for the "grimdark" label, its usefulness goes only so far (as it is with all labels, I think). My opinion is that it might even hurt Abercrombie with some readers, and I think he understands that. So, yes, I have to agree with you there. I have Elven Winter and will be reading it in either December or January, depending on a number of factors, but I'm very much looking forward to it! It's always fantastic to hear from you, and thank you for watching!

@janniskoberstein3310

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Dear Philip, sorry for not answering sooner! I'm doing twice the normal amount of teaching this semester and there's also a lot going on :/ Thanks for your answer! Your opinion means a lot to me. I'm currently reading “best served cold” Is it just me or is the book not quite up there with the first three books? I feel like the characters are less developed. I also gave the grim dark label another thought, and I almost feel like It is used like an excuse for epic fantasy authors to justify their use of stereotypical characters. “my characters don't have to feel like real human beings, because I'm not writing grim dark”. Almost like the word “talent” is used as an excuse by people that are trying to find an justification for not achieving something, while lessening the hard work of others by saying “they are lucky they have talent, so it’s easy for them”. Like saying that it would be unfair to compare the character work of an epic fantasy author, with a grim dark fantasy author. I wish you great Holidays with your loved ones and some amazing books! Stay safe and healthy!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@janniskoberstein3310 My experience was that I ended up loving Best Served Cold, and perhaps I even felt like it was a tighter story than the original trilogy with better pacing. But it’s true that you don’t have as long to get to know the characters, so perhaps that’s a factor. Knowing this story will pay off, however, if you end up reading the latest trilogy, Age of Madness. The same is true of the other standalones. I think you’re probably right in your thoughts on the grimdark label. If authors embrace labels for their writing or their characters, it could be a sign of laziness, though not necessarily. I know that Abercrombie actually doesn’t love the grimdark label and calls himself Lord Grimdark with more than a pinch of irony. In fact, in the latest trilogy especially, he’s definitely outgrown the stereotype of grimdark. Anyway, I know what you mean about being busy - I’m still grading essays and won’t finish until after Christmas. But I wish you a wonderful holiday season and the very best for the new year!

Although I don’t know how and when they would have met, I am absolutely convinced Bremer dan Gorst is based on one of my distant (I believe 3rd cousins once removed) family members. He’s in his late 50s and has been a bald-headed, absolute unit for at least the last two decades and the voice Steven Pacey does in the audiobooks is an absolutely perfect match. I was literally dumbstruck the first time I heard Pacey voice him. It obviously made Gorst an extremely vivid character for me. Luckily, my cousin is, to the best of my knowledge (we are rather distant relations), not a deeply self-loathing killing savant and is happily married.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

I’m glad your cousin has had a happier fate than Bremer! Cheers, Alex!

@Snailz5

2 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I would be absolutely thrilled if the next time you get a chance to speak with Joe you could ask him about the genisis of the character. I think he was a great POV in the Heroes and I feel he gets the most "on-screen time" of the "former-POVs" in the second trilogy. I think a good discussion could be had on the "former-POV" framing too. I think all those scenes really pop because you have the puzzle of trying to think about what's going on in the "former-POV" characters heads because you need to factor in how they've changed in the intervening 10-20 years and you know won't get their perspective on an scene at a later point like you do with interactions between POV characters.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

@@Snailz5 I’d love to have the opportunity to ask him, and those are excellent questions I’ll keep in mind for that day!

Really nice vid, guys! I'm well in the trenches (halfway through The Last Argument of Kings) and I can empathize with Mark's journey. I'm very slowly developing a liking to the series, but I think with time I'll eventually love it. You guys certainly are a great help! Thank you

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

My take is that the books really get better and better. I love the standalones, and the new trilogy has a great chance at being my favorite. Best wishes as you get through the books!

@marcweber8509

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thank you! I will keep on at it!

@marcweber8509

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy So I just finished Last Argument of Kings a couple of days ago and I absolute loved the ending. As I've said before, I was still somewhat on the fence with series before, but this conclusion might have finally broken me in. I think I'll let it sit for a while longer and then jump into the standalones. I very much appreciate the encouragement you have given me!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcweber8509 Definitely my pleasure! I’m glad Last Argument of Kings sealed the deal, and my take is that the standalones are even better overall.

Very interesting discussion. I will definitely be checking out his books after I’m up to date with The Stormlight Archive.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for watching, and I hope you’ll enjoy First Law!

I just ordered the First Law Trilogy box set last night; it will be my second series in the fantasy genre. I've started my fantasy journey, 2 days ago, with Malazan Book of the Fallen (sticking to the 10 core books on my first read-through).

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

First Law and Malazan and two of the very best, in my humble opinion. I'm on my second read of Malazan right now, and I'm amazed at how much more connected I feel to the series this time. It was brilliant the first time, but I'm completely immersed and emotionally invested right now (on Memories of Ice, book three). Happy reading to you!

This was an awesome discussion. Do some more with this group. Take turns hosting. 👍

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I do hope to get together again with these guys!

I Donno how I missed this when it came out but Slowly Red told me about it so here I am!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Awesome! It was a fun discussion!

I loved hearing all your thoughts on this. I really like hearing multiple perspectives on books and authors like this. So I read the first two books in The First Law trilogy and then stopped. It wasn’t a series that I hated by any means, but I had a really hard time with the plot and the characters. The characters are well developed, but I felt very detached from them. And the plot to me was very circular. The second book ends and you feel like you’ve gone full circle and I just didn’t care that much. I kind of wish that his series weren’t so interlinked together, because I would like to give his later books a try, but feel that I can’t unless I finish the first trilogy. But, I have no motivation to finish The First Law to be honest. I’m between a rock and a hard place here lol. I really enjoyed hearing everyone’s thoughts on grimdark. To be honest, I really don’t like grimdark as a sub genre very much. And the convo you guys had made me really interrogate why that is. Because when you take the ingredients of grimdark and lay them out, they should be things I enjoy. But I have a real problem with grimdark’s obsession with s*xual violence. And I think I would have less of a problem with this if the publishing landscape of grimdark were different. But grimdark, even more so than other fantasy subgenres, is incredibly male dominated. Even in this discussion of grimdark, which included a wide variety of very interesting sounding books from many different decades, the one commonality is that they were all written by men. Some women of course have written grimdark, including oft overlooked pioneers of the sub genre such as JV Jones and contemporary authors like Anna Stephens. But these women, as is often the case in fantasy, are nowhere near as read as frequently as their male counterparts. So their reach and influence in the genre is more limited. And of course not all men write s*xual violence badly. But I think with the popularization of grim dark, has come a lot of books where that violence is used only to titillate and shock the reader. And when I bring these criticisms up in fan forums, I’m almost always met with two responses. One, that I’m an SJW (guilty as charged) and two, it’s grimdark! Can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen! But my criticism isn’t that I can’t take the heat. My criticism is that I don’t think the heat should be the selling point of a novel without equally critiquing the structures of the world that allow for the heat. And that critiquing of the world has honestly been rare in the grimdark that I have read. I’m struggling to come up with an example of a single male authored fantasy book that handled the topic of sexual violence well. And I include books that I have enjoyed. More often than not, it’s used to signal to the reader that this is a brutal world (which is lazy writing in my opinion) or to shock the reader and give them some sort of queasy titillation (which is unforgivable). I’m still going to try more grimdark and I haven’t given up on the sub genre completely. But it’s not a sub genre that really appeals to me. When I first started reading fantasy, I tried a lot of these grimdark series. But as I’ve come to terms with my taste as a reader, I’ve just realized that it’s probably never going to speak to me as much as other subgenres. This was such a good discussion. Everyone was so thoughtful and informative, and clearly passionate about Joe Abercrombie. If there is a book or series I can read of his without having finished The First Law, let me know because I’m definitely interested in trying more. 😊

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

It's always fantastic to get your perspective Chris, and I love this thoughtful comment from you! Also, I deeply appreciate your valid observation about the fact that authors celebrated for grimdark are overwhelmingly male, and I suspect it would be safe to say that the readership is too. In addition, you were too kind to point this out, but our panel is all male too! I take responsibility for that since I was the organizer of this chat. The fact is that these guys are friends and BookTubers who, like me, love Abercrombie's work, but it would have enriched our discussion to have a woman participating. That is something I'm working on for my next discussions. As far as Abercrombie's books go, his latest trilogy is his best in terms of representation of female characters, and he takes on themes of sexuality, class, and race too (though in a subtle manner, which is good, I think). You could read The Age of Madness Trilogy without reading all of the prior First Law books. In your case, I might even recommend it. There are some older characters from the previous books, and you would miss some references, but you would still get a great story that overwhelmingly focuses on the younger characters anyway. So, you could start with A Little Hatred and see what you think, and if you like it, The Trouble with Peace is out too. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts if you ever try Age of Madness!

@chrisbookishcauldron6381

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy oh I did not mean to criticize the panel at all! I loved all your guys’ thoughts. These were more thoughts that run through my head about grimdark in general than they are thoughts about Abercrombie’s work. I actually didn’t mind the content of the first law books at all, which is why I want to try more of his books. I’ll definitely try out A Little Hatred. End of November is the Tome Topple Readathon, so it will be a good time to add it to my TBR for that readathon 😊

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrisbookishcauldron6381 Thanks, Chris! And I definitely didn’t feel like you were being critical of us. I was just taking your valid insights and applying them to myself. I’m glad to hear you found some things to like in First Law too. It’s always fantastic to learn from your perspective!

@ZamWeazle

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy On a side note there are a few Female booktubers who are major, major Abercrombie fans. Liene's Library and Holly hearts books.. for example. Also both Merphy Napier and Elliot Brooks love the first law series alot. I Just thought it was worth mentioning that Grimdark and Abercrombie fans aren't all exclusively male!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZamWeazle Thanks! I knew about Elliot Brooks, and I just learned about Liene, whose content looks interesting. I’m aware of Merphy’s channel but didn’t know she likes First Law. I’ll check out the other too!

Yeah great video

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

I personally loved the first book by itself when I first read it. Some people don't and that's fine, but for a lot of people it's definitely not required to be well-read, experienced in fantasy or mature (which I definitely wasn't at the time) to appreciate it. That said, books 2 and 3 are among my favourite books of all time. For me it's simply impressive the consistency of his work, both in quality and quantity. Abercrombie at his worst (whatever it is ) will still be pretty good

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Well said! The character work in book one alone makes it worth the read.

This was great and you all really pointed out all of Abercrombie's strenghts. I am so glad someone remembered to mention the humour because so many people don't mention it and it's important to mention that these books are funny despite being grimdark fantasy. So far this is the only grimdark fantasy that I really like and that is mainly because of the characters and the writing. Unpopular opinion I guess, but I really liked Joffrey as a character. The show started to go down for me when he died. Then I eventually gave up on the show and so far I have only read the first book because I am refusing to read more until it's all finished and I can binge it.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I completely agree with you that the humor makes First Law stand out from anything else that is grimdark. It’s one of the primary reasons I love Abercrombie’s books. I can’t say I’m a Joffrey fan, but he’s a brilliantly realized character, as Martin’s characters tend to be, and I’m a big fan of ASOIAF. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!

My reading taste is wide-ranging, most frequently including history, memoir & biography, and classic and contemporary literature. I add horror, fantasy and SF to the mix to keep things from becoming stagnant. I'd seen Joe Abercrombie mentioned so often I was curious about his work. What made me hesitant to pick him up was my limited interest in fantasy work and my psychological profile. I' m what's been called an HSP (highly sensitive person). My emotional attachments run deep. Eight years ago my son died in a horrible on-the-job accident. Fictional horrors must be handled with gloves for me to experience them on the page and not be dragged down by them. I have to mentally 'avert my eyes' when I encounter ugliness on the page. Having said that I did want to satisfy my curiosity about Joe's books. I read his collection 'Sharp Ends' to sample his style and the world he's created for his characters. He's not someone I'd want to read all the time but he's a gifted craftsman of fantasy fiction and I plan to read more of his work as my psyche will allow. I enjoyed the discussion on this video today.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Hello, Curt. First of all, I’m so sorry about your son. I’m a father myself, but I haven’t suffered such a loss, and there’s no way anyone can truly imagine a pain so profound as that must be. Abercrombie’s books do contain a lot of violence, even for fantasy, which is a genre known for violence. That said, I’ve found that he doesn’t glorify violence. Instead, he portrays it in a way that feels authentic to me. At the same time, he also creates such vivid and flawed characters that I find it impossible not to identify with them. Finally, I admire his incorporation of themes, especially in his latest trilogy, Age of Madness. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the First Law books to an HSP, but you certainly know your tastes and what works for you. Whatever you read, I wish you much fulfillment from it.

@curtjarrell9710

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks Philip.

Great team up video!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! We had a lot of fun talking First Law.

Great stuff gentlemen. I am suitably shamed into finishing the rest of Abercrombie's work.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent! I don’t think you’ll regret it, and I’m always happy to use shame as motivation. 😁 I myself will be finishing Age of Madness this coming week as I take on Wisdom of Crowds.

This series renewed my interest in the genre after lapsing for a few years. Lots of fun, in a hopeless sort of a way.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Well said! It’s both hopelessly fun and funnily hopeless! I can see how First Law could bring someone back to fantasy. Thanks for watching!

Just had to pause and come mention how happy I was to hear *Lord Foul's Bane* brought up in the discussion! Stephen R Donaldson remains one of the greatest geniuses of the Fantasy genre, and it is a shame more people don't know his work.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

True! At some point, perhaps next year, I’ll reread Lord Foul’s Bane. Mark (Slowly Red) actually just read and reviewed it on his channel, to which I have a link in the description. It’s a great review! Thanks for watching and commenting- it’s always fantastic to hear from you!

@TheGeekyHippie

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks, Dr Chase! I actually just watched Mark's review of *LFB* this afternoon and I enjoyed it (also watched his *Dune* review, also excellent). While not the perfect book, it was the Fantasy novel that showed me the genre could be something more than just what I'd seen Tolkien as up to that point (I was 11 or 12 when I first read *Lord Foul's Bane* and Tolkien was still just an epic quest story to me). Exactly what that something was, I wasn't quite sure, but it is what got me to start thinking more about what I read, instead of just absorbing the story/adventure for itself. (Interestingly, later that summer I read *Dune* for the first time, not long before the Lynch abomination came out, so I was reading some pretty heavy stuff at that time.)

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheGeekyHippie You were definitely reading some heavy stuff for that age, but some great stuff that are timeless classics for good reasons. I’m glad you enjoyed Mark’s reviews- he’s got a wonderful thing going with his channel!

THE 4 BEST RIGHT HERE!!!!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! We had a lot of fun chatting about First Law!

@ernstbrehm1135

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Joe Abercrombie is a special author. Definitely one of my favorite series. I have to try the Shattered Sea trilogy.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ernstbrehm1135 I’ll be trying The Shattered Sea books someday too - they’re by Abercrombie, after all!

Awesome discussion.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for watching!

I know this is a few months old but you all said that you hadn't read the Shattered Sea books. I picked them up after finishing Red Country and A Little Hatred wasn't out yet. They're OK but not as great as First Law. The first one, Half A King, is pretty predictable in its plot-beats and the final 'twist' wasn't a reveal. The second felt more like a travelogue, which I guess is cool considering how little of the circle sea we get to see in the original FL trilogy. Then, the third one is a huge war, kinda like with Last Argument of Kings. My real problem with them is that it would be like if The Blade Itself, The Heroes and The Trouble With Peace were a trilogy with regards to the timeline. So much of the characters' lives happen off-screen between books, so a POV character in Book 1, who is a secondary character in Book 2, can be unrecognisable because so much has happened to them that we haven't seen.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for that assessment of the Shattered Sea books. I’ve heard mixed opinions on them, leaving me uncertain if I’ll pick them up. Perhaps someday, but I have so many great books to read. On the other hand, I’ll read anything Abercrombie writes in the First Law world!

Ive only read the firet 3 and I struggled to finish them. I just wasn't very intersted in the characters. When not reading about Glokta or Logen I was just waiting for it to be back to one of them. I hated how many times characters were saved by someone else at the last minute. It went past a cliche and just had me rolling my eyes. There was no tension because you already knew something would happen at the last minute and save them. It felt kind of generic. Were they implying that Dogman has known Logen from the beginning and didnt know about The Bloody Nine? If he did then he was really careless with it. Overall I was expecting something more and spent most of the books for that to happen but never did. Not sure how this is so hyped but to each their own. It was also more tame than I had expected which didn't really matter but just another thing hype does. Hope everyone enjoys what they read

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

7 ай бұрын

I hope you enjoy your next read more!

You can never have too First Law discussion, you have to be realistic about these things

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! That’s for sure! And you can never have too many Logen Ninefingers quotes! Thanks for watching!

@currangill430

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Watched the entire discussion, better do a thing than live with the fear of it.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@currangill430 🤣🤣🤣

@currangill430

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Or watch a thing lololol

@currangill430

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'm torturing my cousin into reading/listening to First Law. My inner Glotka demands it

The more I think about it and seeing how the character started and what happened, I think Caul Shivers might be Abercrombie's best character. Or one of them at the least.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

You know, I’ve been thinking along similar lines. In Age of Madness, Caul has so many layers to him. Much of it is the weight of the past. He’s not front and center, but his presence is strong.

Favorite character is Jezel. Favorite book is Last Argument of Kings

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent choices! It’s hard to wrong with Abercrombie.

@FactMan8

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yeah honestly I love all the characters so far but I've only just finished Last Argument of Kings, I'm sure my favorite character will end up changing with time. I just love Jezel's character development. Abercrombie has changed my expectations for fantasy immensely.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@FactMan8 He’s one of the best in the business when it comes to developing characters - lots of great ones to admire!

Someday someone needs to do a study on how influential "I like A Song of Ice and Fire, but the books take too long. Is there a completed series out there?" is/was for the popularity of fantasy nowadays. It seems like every single contemporary reader has this exact experience... Love the discussion. I'm more lukewarm on the series, but want to try to get back into it... Read the first three, loved the first two, and kinda felt like the third one...didn't go anywhere? Can't decide whether it'd be better to reread them or just continue on. It definitely seems like there's a level of deconstruction that (similar to Erickson) you have to know what's going on already to really follow the thrust, the reason behind it all.

@zan8152

3 жыл бұрын

as for grimdark - great discussion, I love the thoughts here. I think I'd have been interested in maybe a level setting though - what books are grimdark? Which aren't? doing a cursory search for 'grimdark books'.... I'd personally disagree with half of the results? But it's an interesting way of prying out where the elements lie. BUT anyhow I love the idea of it particularly being tied to prose and tone. Almost more aesthetic than genre? Maybe? Which could sorta explain why it's so nebulous - it's one color in a palette the author can to use to paint with. Some just prefer it more than others. For example, I wouldn't at all call Malazan grimdark... but parts absolutely are (The blood-drink subplot in Toll the Hounds?) Or First Law... I don't know that much feels "grimdark" to me... until the quest in the second book and the tone of the whole thing just slowly shifts down, down, into this upsetting place. Maybe that's too narrow! Maybe too nebulous. Just thoughts.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@zan8152 Excellent thoughts, and thanks so much for watching! Like most labels, “grimdark” is, I think, useful only to a certain extent. And the truth is that many books have grimdark elements while not really being grimdark, like the Malazan example you give. And yet, even with its imperfection, grimdark still has some usefulness as a genre label, especially for people who like that tone or those themes they associate with it. It’s also a marketing tool, of course. In Abercrombie’s case, I sometimes wonder if the label actually turns away some readers who would potentially enjoy his books. Anyway, I’m headed out for a bit, but thanks so much for watching and leaving your insightful comments! Much appreciated!

DogMan is my second fav after Glokta. Logan is awesome, but not quite the level of those two.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

It’s an array of riches when it comes to characters in First Law!

R. Scott Bakker really destroys everything. I really, really recommend his The Second Apocalypse (The Prince of Nothing trilogy + The Aspect Emperor tetralogy), though it can get so grim at times, that it hurts. Parts of it can also feel like reading a history book, which I don't necessarily mind, at least most of the time. Also the oriental names can get confusing. That being said, the positives really outweigh the negatives by a lot. It has incredible philosophical and psychological depth and its worldbuilding and history are some of the best out there. Everyone who loves his dark fantasy, or grimdark if you will, should try this at some point. But again, it's as grim and dark as it gets. Certainly it's the grimmest and darkest fantasy besides Berserk, that I've ever read.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I’m starting The Prince of Nothing Trilogy fairly soon, most likely in January, and I keep hearing things that make me confident I’m going to love it. Sounds like an author who deserves more attention!

@marcweber8509

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Cool, I'm looking forward to it! I'm excited to hear what you have to say about it. He definitely flies under the radar. Probably because the themes and concepts he tackles are quite heady. It's most definitely not a casual fantasy experience. Professors especially might enjoy it ;D

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@marcweber8509 Ha ha! Yes, I think Bakker’s writing will be up my alley.

34:01 I think Elric was one of the first novels that’s considered “ grimdark”. It was created as a deconstruction of Lord of The Ring. It has pulled a lot of influences to fantasy nowadays aka Witcher. edit 37:08 references it haha

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Great point! Yes, as far as I understand it, Moorcock deliberately set out to be the anti-Tolkien, and his influence on grimdark is big. Thanks for watching!

@ZamWeazle

3 жыл бұрын

Yes Elric has inspired just about every Elf /vampire/ gothic style character in fantasy fiction. (Which includes Manga and Anime) Everything from Alucard to Drizzt to Geralt. Yet very few people talk about Elric or even Morrcock on booktube. Its a shamee!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ZamWeazle I’m planning to read Moorcock next year at some point, perhaps later in the year, though. I agree he deserves more attention on BookTube!

I buy all 3 formats!

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

Ha ha! Abercrombie would approve, I’m sure!

I still haven't finished Sharp Ends. I just can't bring myself to finish it. Out of boredom. I don't really like it that much.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

Жыл бұрын

I hear you, Curran. Sharp Ends is my least favorite First Law book, though I was far from bored. Short stories are hard to write really well.

@currangill430

Жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I think it's because I'm not too into the Javre stories. And I'm not that big a fan of shorts anyway

@currangill430

Жыл бұрын

I did skip to the Logen one which was excellent. Sharp Ends and Heroes could be my least favorite. I don't think I'll revisit SE on a re-read

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

Жыл бұрын

@@currangill430 The Logen one is the best by a mile.

@currangill430

Жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Yup really love that one. I've read it a few times

so... American Psycho is GRIMM DARK ?

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I have to admit I haven’t watched American Psycho. An interesting notion, though!

@nelsonhoffman5922

3 жыл бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy well, it's a book first, but the movie is far superior. absolutely hysterical.

I do you guys one better, I own all First Law books in paperback, audiobook, and kindle format :P

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

3 жыл бұрын

I yield! I only have one copy of each book. I keep hearing how amazing the audiobook is, though.

If you like magic then watch a little known movie called, "A Dark Song". Spooky and how, if magic were real. rituals would be performed. Be warned it is at times nerve wracking. The rituals are taken from The Book of Abremalin. One of the tomes used by Aleister Crowley for his ritual magic.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the recommendation!

marks channel is....

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

Жыл бұрын

Slowly Red! He’s the Grimdark Guru.