Rest in Peace, Mentzer Brothers

1 day on, 3 days off, 1 day on 3 days off!

@dennisrkb

5 ай бұрын

same rythm rn

@eliteman58

5 ай бұрын

I train similar but each muscle twice per week with some rest pause and a backoff set after no progress on the first set.

@OurTimeIsOut

5 ай бұрын

I am doing one on four off working great for me.

@carnivorehitman

5 ай бұрын

Yeah - once every 4th day is my go to as of now!

Such a great channel. I’m 27, been working out for 10 years. I’ve never seen gains like I have while using these methods

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Congratulations, and thanks for your post.

I'm doing the Mike Mentzer workout, and it really fits in well with being able to live a fuller life - I do other sports, too.

@algrundau9441

5 ай бұрын

Doing other sports makes inroads into your recovery and compromising your gain's....that is what Mike andRay would have told you......and H.I.T trainee's will tell you.

@britindian3146

5 ай бұрын

@@algrundau9441 Sure, but I'm not a bodybuilder. I still get gains.

@dendanskehelt4296

5 ай бұрын

@@algrundau9441 We do not. Also if you actually read Mikes work, he would direct you to the fifth principle, specifity. What are you training for? Muscle building or endurance? You can train for msucle building while still jogging, it is not as effective however, that's true, but you can do it. I'm currently training a kid in Heavy Duty, I told him not to do cardio, as he is physically active at his work, which I have firsthand knowledge of as I worked at the same place. Had this kid been obese I would have told him to do some jogging or long walks along with the training.

The one thing I learned most from Mike and Ray is actually WRITING THINGS DOWN. You can really gauge whether your body needs once a week, twice, 3x a week. If your numbers are going up try training a little more frequent if you stop making gains you can really find that sweet spot. Heck maybe you realize you have a naturally high recovery ability and can train more frequent than even Mike recommended, but that's what it's all about. I remember training so hard and going weeks and weeks never going up in weight or reps, worrying so much about food and everything else not realizing I was simply over training. Ever since finding Mike I'm finally beating my last workout numbers consistently and that's what I want to see every time

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Well put.

@stevemann1299

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Then you know what's working and when. Thanks to Mike I identified. That I needed AT LEAST 5 days to fully recover from a workout and progress. Anytime I only rested 4 or less days. NO PROGRESS. And when I'm fully recovered I know. I feel a fullness in my physique. And I'm rearing to go again. Mike was so right about so much. And it warms my heart that so many are now learning and admitting he knew his stuff. Thanks to John and this amazing channel.

Kingdom of heaven to you, Ray. You was the best 💪🏼❤️🙏

I’ve been doing this exact routine for years. Monday and Friday train each body part once every 7 days. You’ll make excellent gains on this if you’re natural.

@jameskelly6479

5 ай бұрын

I have been do that now and it works well and I'm just about 75 years old. This is a perfect routine for older guys.

Seeing ray and Mike work hard together makes me want to work harder in the gym

Ray beat a huge guy in the America named Cesar juliani. He was a monster that trained in my gym in Brooklyn. If 1 set is enough for Ray's amazing build it's enough for me.

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for the anecdote and for your post.

Less is more is the golden rule.

@p.l.diablo9864

5 ай бұрын

@@tjvincenzi3695 twice the foreplay, half the sex. Is best.

@p.l.diablo9864

5 ай бұрын

@unidentified666 to find someone's wealth look at the library of books he collects.

@crischianjimenez9389

5 ай бұрын

"Not more, not less, precise is best"

@p.l.diablo9864

5 ай бұрын

@crischianjimenez9389 perfect practice makes perfect - V. Lombardi

Ray’s stuff is fascinating, slightly different thoughts from Mike.

I only train 10 days once ,it gives me much gains

John I thought I'd post an update on my stagnation. Took 2 weeks off over xmas (in total 3 weeks between my last workout before and first workout after the xmas break). I also dramatically cut down my volume. Still following a PPL split I now do 1 major, standard, and minor muscle per workout. For example my push day is chest press, shoulder press, biceps - before my chest/back day was chest fly, chest press, lat pulldown, and cable row - way too much volume. The start was slow but now I'm back 120%, training every ~4 days. Also found a gym with all-Nautilus machines which are a game changer. I'm gonna go as far as to say that you can't do *proper* HIT on subpar machines.

Wow John! Another gem! Where are you finding this stuff? Well, I guess it’s doesn’t matter to much because all I can say is Thank you! Sincerely. These rare audio pieces with Ray are priceless and I can’t believe how smart and articulate Ray was. Mike and Ray are being transported into a class where they will live forever with all the work you are doing. Which makes you a modern day Saint. For real! Thank you!

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Ha ha. Thanks for the kind words. I’m not a saint by any means, just a friend of these two, hoping to do what I can do to ensure their legacy lives on.

Very good! 😁

training once a 7days works like magic for me.

@thestrivingbeliever

5 ай бұрын

what do you do in rest days

@borkosogli3237

4 ай бұрын

​@@thestrivingbelieverresting lol

@shawnm4189

4 ай бұрын

That is what I am currently doing...basically once every 6-8 days but it usually ends up being once every 7 days.

@AshrafAli-qs6ep

Ай бұрын

During the rest days, how do you manage your daily nutritional intakes?

I remembering listening to a snippet of Ray, saying ‘These bodybuilders do 2 days on, 1 day off... or 3 days on, 1day off. I always ask them what that means. They have no idea. ‘WELL YOU GOTTA GET YOUR OTHER BODY PARTS IN (in a meathead voice)’. It should be the other way around! 1 day on, 2 or 3 days off’ The Mentzer brothers were the only two I know of who were *thinking* about their workouts 🥸🥸

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Agreed. Thank you very much for your post.

@tanman966

5 ай бұрын

@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE thank YOU for the uploads! You’ve changed my life, quite literally, John. I used to be in the gym 1 to 1.5hours, 3 sets of 10, 5/6 days per week. Thanks to you, I’m thinking about my workouts and have dramatically altered the way I workout!! Plus much much more. I’m sure I’m not the only one...

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

@@tanman966 Mike would be pleased to learn that you are thinking for yourself regarding your workouts.

@zvezdanbadric5293

5 ай бұрын

Diet also? How much kcal? Supplements?

Wow thanks for posting John , i did notice there is quite a bit of difference between Ray and Mike advice on routines though and I'm sure they both have validity being low volume HIT training. I am currently using Mike's 4 day split ideal routine and am enjoying the gains . My recovery is now around 7 days. Do you have an opinion on the 2 work outs and was the ideal 4 day split Mike's last recommendation?

Crush on... HIT the high intensity...

If you guys have access to a machine that has multiple pulleys for the tricep pushdown try it. It gives you constant tension on the tricep and allows you to use more weight which is irrelevant but the pump is incredible. I am using the stack now plus 35 lbs added.

Hey John, where can I read or learn more about the Metabolic Momentum Ray mentioned around 18:40 ?

Dude cuts Ray off mid sentence way too much

Didn't Mike Mentzer himself say that the deadlift is the exercise that stimulates the greatest amount of muscles?:/

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Yes, Mike did make that comment in 1996. But this isn’t a recording of Mike, this is a recording of Ray made in 1983. And Ray had his own beliefs regarding exercise. While the brothers were aligned in their belief in the fundamental principles of high intensity training, they each had their own thoughts regarding the practical application of the theory. They were not two people sharing one brain.

@virtuticola7109

5 ай бұрын

I know they didn't share a brain lol I just thought they'd be on the same page on this topic, that's all.@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

@emekaasiegbu3697

5 ай бұрын

@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEalso it can go back to another principle that everyone is different. Who knows, maybe Mike saw great results within himself and genuinely liked them while Ray didn’t and disliked them; it’s the same with not being stagnant… and doing new things and switching things to see what works best for the individual

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

@@emekaasiegbu3697 Well said.

I took 9 months off. Going back I now train upper /lower and in 4 months am back to wear I was and my chest /back are bigger than before.

It's incredibly interesting how on some things Ray goes starkly against Mike but I'm glad we have these clips available.

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

You have to remember that the interviews with Rae were conducted during the 1980s for the most part. Mike did not revise his theory of heavy duty training until after he had been training clients (the majority of whom were natural) for a while. Ray never trained clients until the mid-1990s. In the 1980s, both Ray and Mike trained very similarly.

@supragame1991

5 ай бұрын

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE interesting. I don't think either was right or wrong but I respect that Mike and Ray had their own opinions about training based on their experiences.

I’ve been seeing 2 different mentzer workouts, Monday/Friday split, and then a train every 3rd day split, which one is the most effective?

Can you please upload some strength building programme of Mentzer Bros! Strength building probably needs more than One set! Like 5*5 etc!

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

There are other videos on this channel (including this one) in which Ray Mentzer outlines his approach to training.

@dendanskehelt4296

5 ай бұрын

Depends, what are you looking for specifically? A good muscle building program is essentially a strength training program.

I’m try a new job and I can only training just on Monday … after 3 years of hit I’m not scared of 1workout a week .. I m sure if don’t gain I won’t loose any muscle

Very interesting that Ray only does the hard core to failure workouts for 4 weeks, then backs off and does 80% intensity for 8 weeks. Makes a lot of sense.

I'm wondering, Ray did seminars, someone is bound to have recorded one at some point. I'd love to see him speak.

@383madmax

5 ай бұрын

There are several of those seminars on here. I can't remember who or what channel there on

@dendanskehelt4296

5 ай бұрын

@@383madmax Really? I have tried looking. I'll give it another go.

@seanbowring5021

3 ай бұрын

I attended a Ray Mentzer seminar here in Melbourne Australia in the 80's. Easily the best and most informative seminar.

@dendanskehelt4296

3 ай бұрын

@@seanbowring5021 Awesome. I wish I could find recordings of them.

I train for 7 years now .... 5 days / week ....for 1:30 h or 2h that i spend in the gym , i give everything ....slow on negatives , high volume, drop sets ( 25-28 sets for back , 23 for chest , 25 for shoulders , things like that ) but every set is almost to failure .....i train like this ....monday chest , tuesday legs , wednesday rest , thursday shoulders , friday back , saturady arms , and sunday rest ....but i have in plan to change it , cus i see that i do not recover fast enough, been natural ( 180 cm ,87 kg 12-11 % body fat ) for example between my chest workout and sholuder wourkout is 72 h pause , but i still fell my shoulders tired , a cause could be the high volume for chest and intensity of training .....on the arms the same , doing biceps next day after a 26 sets on a back workout is not ideal at all , i know ....and i decide to start training like this ...to reduce the volume , lets say 16 set for chest , or 18 for back , but controled on negatives , 4 sec , or more , every set till failure ,drop sets , and more rest days.... 1st day chest , 2nd day rest , 3th day legs ,4th day rest ,5th shoulders , 6th day rest , 7th day back , 8th day rest , 9th day arms , 10th day rest , and again .....my question is ....with this program i would work a group of muscle every 10th or 11th day ,not every week .....is not to much rest betwen lets say chest day or back day to stimulate growth ? And i am not a fan of working 2 or 3 groups per sesion , cus i cannot focus my mind to work 2 or 3 groups at once ....i prefer to work one group of muscle per sesion , but at maximum ....if someone coud answer the question above , about 10 or 11 days betwen a muscle group workout , i would be greatfull

Im actually working out 2 times a week , my split is arms legs chest and back

@p.l.diablo9864

5 ай бұрын

Opposing muscle groups if your doing push pull. Never pull pull or push push same muscle groups same training sessions.

@p.l.diablo9864

5 ай бұрын

Id recommend chest and biceps, legs by themselves being they're the biggest muscle group. Back and triceps. Deadlifts by themselves as well, its a whole body workout

@virtuticola7109

5 ай бұрын

So you don't train shoulders and abs?:/

@p.l.diablo9864

5 ай бұрын

@virtuticola7109 my bad, shoulders can be done with deadlifts, abs are made in the kitchen and are the youngest part of your body. I trained them in the marines. That was enough for a lifetime. Hard training especially deadlifts and biking into my 50s maintains the core.

@marko-182

5 ай бұрын

Mike trained chest and back

Would it be possible to transfer this training system to bodyweight and resistance bands. In bodyweight you need higher volume.

@Dserbs

3 ай бұрын

No it won't work to high volume. Still need to hit failure in body building parameters 6 - 12 reps.

Sam Sulek should listen to this, because he isn't following anything Mike said. Most people are ignorant and won't understand 😒 this statement because we are hard headed Americans.

Salad ? Thanks for posting this John. Its an early example of how Mikes principles were evolving and obviously no mention of the you know what. Regards Andy

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

This is actually a video of Ray Mentzer (not Mike). This was recorded during a period of steroid-free training, as Arthur Jones did not allow anyone using drugs to work for him at Nautilus. It’s true that this represents an evolutionary step in the brothers’ thinking with regard to training, Mike would refine this later after working with natural trainees during the 1990s.

I have three routines I utilize every 10 weeks. A 3 day full body. A modified Dorian Yates blood and guts 4 day. And finally a modified mentzer 3 day heavy duty. No more than 1 working set for any lift any routine.

@argetimaliu9616

3 ай бұрын

And how are the gains on 1set? How many exercises 4 back exercises 4sets total for example?

@BLS1976PACHAPTER

3 ай бұрын

@@argetimaliu9616 I like performing 2 to thee warm up sets with 50 to 75 percent of my working weight. Chest and back And legs I have 4 to 5 exercises shoulders arms no more than 3. I have seen decent gains on physique and strength

2X Full Body is the Sweet Spot for bottom 95%. And even if you are the top 5% you'd just be not as optimized as possible, but receiving more time off as a reward.

Training 2-3 days a week on the basic's with limited sets is a time honoured way to train. It will get you bigger and stronger and give you a big basic physique and that is more than enough for most....HOWEVER.....When reading Mike's very own HEAVY DUTY JOURNAL he CLEARLY DESCRIBES HIS EXTENSIVE CARDIO ROUTINE FOR CONTEST PREP. ...4 MILES Jogging in the Morning, PLUS 10 Miles Bicycling in the evening. PLUS Half hour posing...DAILY!! ...On top of a severely calorie restricted diet (1,000--1,500 calories a day).. ....AND his HEAVY DUTY training session every other day or sometimes every 3rd day.....To attain his COMPETITION conditioning. Mike's competition at the time were training far more in the gym, ....yet many were doing little if ANY cardio whatsoever. They just used higher reps and less rest between sets. They also ate more but cut their carbs, many times down to zero. So pick your poison. Either way it is hard work, pain, sacrifice. Training 2 time's a week sounds great and is great for some. But even the Mentzer's had to do a hell of a lot of supplemental training to get in competition form. Their competitors did NOT....Plus they had been conditioning themselves for that volume all year long. .....So at the end of the day, is HEAVY DUTY truly that much less volume when you factor in all the extra cardio and posing that the Mentzer's had to do for compensation? And as great as the Mentzer's were, many critiqued their physiques as being too soft and not detailed enough to win the Olympia or for brother Ray to consistently hit peak conditioning. Again, don't get me wrong. Training 2 or 3 times a week very hard on basics with limited sets is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered for the vast majority of lifter's in the World.....BUT.....To truly hit your peak for competition it will take a hell of a lot more work. Read HEAVY DUTY JOURNAL....Mike says so himself in his own words.

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

This certainly would apply if one is training for competition where 3% body fat is the norm. However, for the vast majority looking simply to build muscle, there is no need for all of that supplemental activity nor for the alternative approach of spending hours each week, working out in the gym.

@algrundau9441

5 ай бұрын

@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGEAgree 100%...For the vast majority the time honoured 2--3 times a week, handful of exercises (but periodically rotate and change some exercises), limited sets, balanced diet, and maybe 1-2 moderate cardio session's a week is all you will ever need or want. ...I get it. I just hope that some do not get the impression that ..."15 minutes every 96--120 hours" will give you a 1978 Mentzer physique......It's not that simple. Never has been, never will be. If you want to look like that it's going to hurt. And the diet is going to be strict. No way around it. HARD WORK....All I am saying is that training HEAVY DUTY/H.I/.T and supplementing with a shit ton of cardio and daily posing is certainly ONE way of getting to your peak condition....BUT....It is not the ONLY way. Like I said, pick your poison, it's not easy and it's not supposed to be....For everyone else. Every other day, Mon--H..I.T Wed Cardio Fri-H.I.T 2. Sunday Cardio....Or something like that works great and fits into a lifestyle. I know other dudes that literally take Mon--Fri OFF.....and do ALL their lifting on Saturday Sunday...they have no choice. They are too busy Mon--Fri....And these guys are plenty strong and big. Whatever works. Cheers. Thanks for your response and thank you for listening.

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for your post.

Im an ectomorph n been training on and off since my teens. 32 now and SERIOUS about gaining, tried Mike'ss method for the first time today and felt cartoon characters running out of my eyes on them last reps ahd had to take a nap shortly after coming home. Giving this a try in the long run, see how it goes

@DarkMasterTV99

Күн бұрын

add creatine monohydrate to maximize your gain

I'm surprised that Mike Mentzer was doing reps so quickly on that shoulder side lateral machine.

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

That isn’t Mike; it’s his brother Ray.

@zippydoo9533

5 ай бұрын

@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I thought one of the clips was Mike. Anyway the reps he was doing looked kind of fast. Thanks for this channel because it's really helpful to me. I learned a lot here.

@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE

5 ай бұрын

@@zippydoo9533 No worries, thanks for your post.

I just wanna ask can i do cardio on the 3 rest days

@waymoncowley436

2 ай бұрын

@UdayanSingh Search for Mike's video about cardio...

can I combine heavy duty with twice a week kickboxing training?

@marko-182

5 ай бұрын

Yes. But don’t train two days in a row

Let say you do this training can you do cardio on the rest days till you need to lift again I want to cut weight while doing this program

@jrfw96

4 ай бұрын

Yes, at low intensity

@abel4776

2 ай бұрын

Every move you make, you waste your caloric gas tank. That tank serves to repair and grow, don't waste it all outside of the workout.