I’m a big heavy metal fan and actually discovered Conan and Elric through the music I listen to. I grew to love the S&S genre as a whole over the years. I’m 27 and almost everyone I know my age doesn’t even know what sword and sorcery is, I wish it got more attention and appreciation. For those that love Elric, I would recommend the other Eternal Champion stories as well. Corum is awesome and Erekose does a good job of explaining how the inner workings of the multiverse function. I would also recommend Kane by Karl Edward Wagner Warrior Witch of Hel by Asa Drake Thongor by Lin Carter Tiger and Del by Jennifer Roberson Elak of Atlantis by Henry Kuttner Death Dealer by James Silke

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Kuttner - the greatest male author of the Golden Age. Try his wife's S&S stories, 'Joel of Joiry'. And her Northwest Smith stories are brilliant too.

Thanks for the recommendations. I’m 23 (maybe I count as one of your younger viewers lol), but originally I was very invested in Lovecraft’s work because of how influential he is today and decided to do a deep dive into his work. Imagine my surprise when I went down a rabbit hole and found out about his friends Clark Ashton Smith and Robert E. Howard and sword and sorcery as a whole. I feel like this is the type of genre I’ve been looking for my whole life, so it’s a great pleasure to have found this video and gotten your wonderful recommendations and descriptions of these works. Can’t wait to get into them.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, hope you enjoy them - check out the Michael Shea video on the channel, reviews his Mythos Horror and other stuff.

As a crusty old bloke, I approve this video.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

As a crusty old bloke, I approve your comment! Thanks mate !

@nightmarishcompositions4536

Жыл бұрын

I’m a young bloke who loves classic sword and sorcery like Conan and Elric haha. I wish it got more attention.

@samwright8599

9 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂

I'm a young lady who loves sf and I have been craving your recommendations ! Thank you

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I'll keep them coming - I do wish more women would watch the channel, very pleased to have you here, I think a lot of younger female readers are missing the best stuff by sticking to their peer group.

@iliana.m

Жыл бұрын

Fellow female reader !! ❤❤❤😃

This is rapidly becoming one of my favourite channels on the tube. Your breadth and depth of knowledge is remarkable. Thank you.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

9 ай бұрын

Many thanks, very kind of you-please delve into the extensive backlist and watch older videos as this channel is slow growing and needs support. The main reason why you're enjoying it is that I'm a book trade professional, so I have an insider perspective developed over forty years -while there are some great SFF youtubers out there, few - of any- can boast of my longterm status as a book trade worker and author. Thanks again.

I always remember reading Elric.... Stormbringer on a school trip coach journey in the 80s. I just about finished the entire book within the journey. I love the artwork associated with moorcock and agree the titles are so inspiring. What a refreshing change from six months plodding through the shire....

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

You said it. 'Stormbringer' was my first Elric too, since it was the first full Elric novel, though the 'last' in the internal chronology. New readers struggle with stuff like this, but to me it's the essence of MM - law versus chaos and both are necessary.

Being a complete 'beginner' to this genre a great video thanks for sharing your knowledge, thoughts and considerations.

Loved this. Will be working my way through these as and when I need to scratch the fantasy itch. Great insight to the books and authors rather than the tedious retelling of the plot you see elsewhere - loving your work. Cheers.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Barrie - my book on Fantasy goes into a lot more depth on the history etc, but these are my preferred texts.

I would definitely say that the Zothique stories by Clark Ashton Smith had a influence on Jack Vance's Dying Earth. The Dying Earth stories are brilliant.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Without doubt.

@earlpipe9713

Жыл бұрын

I loved the wizard type characters from Vance's Dying Earth stories. They were so petty and base in their motivations and traits, that it gave a great level of character based humor to it. "Jubilaar the Magnificent wore a hat with more wizard stars on it than my own, to my birthday party! I must destroy him and enslave his family!!"

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@earlpipe9713 -Yes, their very egocentricity, childishness and willingness to abuse power is rather amusing. So much for Gandalf, right?

So pleased you started with R.E. Howard. His lively Conan stories were what ignited my lifelong love of reading. They had a breezy yet visceral style and tone that was thrilling to experience - very different from modern-day high fantasy. There was also an element of the occult/horror which actually felt menacing and gave the plots an edge of suspense. By the way I really enjoy and appreciate the relaxed pace you take on this channel. It's nice to hear some historical and thematic context behind the works you discuss. Looking forward to trying the other authors I may have missed.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Ай бұрын

Yes, the eldritch elements of Conan always appealed to me too, fantastic stuff.

"A thief, a slayer, a reaver."

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

The only way to describe Conan.

My first Conan story I read was the Tower of the Elephant and I was astonished how imaginative Robert was. It's immensely tragic that he never got to see how much his work influenced people.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. He deserves all the kudos Tolkien gets, for he was the true progenitor of S&S. He'd have been proud, I'm sure.

@doublestarships646

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I want to thank you for introducing me to Jirel of Joiry. I'm a massive Red Sonja fan and I didn't know of C. L. Moore's existence.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@doublestarships646 -Wow, Jirel is knid of tailor made for you then! Good News. Strongly recommend her Northwest Smith stories too, just sheer pulp genius!

@glockensig

9 ай бұрын

Talk aboUt tiring.....I was cleaning the tub/shower while listening to this😂. Your vid was the proverbial "spoonful of sugar"! Outstanding video.... I bought the Conan collection by Gollanz.

Appendix N has gotten me reading a ton of books lately. I've read the first 2 books in the Lankhmar series, the first 2 Barsoon books, The first Elric story, and the first Corum book. That's in the last few months.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

All great stuff.

A truly inspiring video. Great insights. Helpful advice. Beautiful books. Thank you. I wish I'd had this advice 30 years ago but there you go. I found my way to some of these through trial and error. Now I'm going to read the ones I missed.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

9 ай бұрын

This was the kind of advice I was giving daily in the 1980s before the best stuff was swamped by an endless tide of ongoing series of enormous tedium and predictability. Glad you liked it.

Thank you for your work. Superb stuff. My favourite channel on KZread.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

That's very flattering, many thanks - please share my stuff on social media and spread the word, really appreciate your and everyone else's support!

I've been reading SF and fantasy since the early 70s and I am getting such a kick out of seeing the same editions of books I have owned, read and loved since then!

I absolutely love this video. Your talk of the history of the pulps and all these books is great. Make more like this!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. There will be more coming soon on bestselling Fantasy of the mid 80s.

@LawrenceCaldwellAuthor

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I'm looking forward too it. I also like your bit about the brevity of sword-and-sorcery. Out of the Conan stories that Howard wrote, I think fifteen or so are novelette length. It's my favorite length. Very snappy, but still chunky enough to be a story rather that a quick scene like short stories.

Wow finally I find a channel where the first book pulled out not only is the EXACT copy I own, but one I absolutely love!

A fantastic and informative precis of some of the best fantasy of the 20th Century. I'm looking forward to more.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Many thanks Colin - keep watching!

Great video so far! It's extremely insightful for me. This channel is amazing! Some of the Authors are familiar to me as my history teacher has been giving me a long list of reads to work my way through. Currently I am working my way through The Arthurian Legend (Mordred is so fascinating), some Icelandic Mythology, The Kalevala, The Arabian Nights, Matter of Rome and finally The Elder Edda. I'm also getting into Poetry too! I'm reading The Norton Anthology of Poetry, but I wondered if you had any good recommendations. I'm fairly new to Poetry but have been enjoying T.S. Eliot, W. B. Yeats, John Keats and Wilfried Owen. However, my main interest is Tolkien. I've been reading everything about his life and I'm essentially just reading everything that he was interested in.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I'm keen on Arthurian material too, have read The Kalevala (but not for many years) - and the Prose Edda is one of my most beloved books of yore. I was looking through my Elder Edda only a few days ago, funnily enought. With poetry I tend to favour the Romantics- Poe, Byron, Shelley, Coleridge, Blake.

Very good overview. Greatly enjoyed this. Few more books for my list.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Cheers Paul! These are all classics everyone should read to get a proper insight into the best S&S writing, happy reading...

I ordered The Broken Sword as soon as I reached the end. Chef's kiss to the knowledge in this video essay.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

It's the real thing. The only things which are more authentically nordic are the Prose Edda and Beowulf themselves!

I first read Grendel way back in the 70s. What a wonderful book. You covered a lot of my favorite authors.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Many thanka!

I am under 40 and I am finally getting around to Robert E. Howard's Conan and I love it That lead me to your video here Thank You for recommending Elric of Melniboné Saga by Moorcock, The Swords Saga by Lieber and The Broken Sword by Anderson I am now addicted to reading these Sword & Sorcery stories Thank You for the post it helped guide me to a better reading experience

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

My pleasure. Check the Fantasy playlist on the channel and watch the video coming up on Sunday 25th February, where I unbox many Fantasy novels from decades ago.

I've been having a hard time finding old SFF stuff. Thank you for your videos!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

Hundreds of videos here about Vintage SF- dive into the backlist!

Good to see Brunner make an appearance

Love watching and listening to your channel. Keep it going.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

7 ай бұрын

Many, many thanks for your Super-Thanks- a tip like this is very important to keep a small channel like this going and is much appreciated!

Three authors that you mention I am very familiar with and are some of my favorite Robert E. Howard, Poul Anderson (Broken Sword), and Michael Moorecock. I have read a great deal of his work, Elric was my favorite character and I just got absorbed into the Elric series. Thank you for the detail in categorizing the different types of fantasy and sci fi. I can articulate what I am looking for.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

For me, 'The Broken Sword' is THE key work of S&S- I discovered it through my Moorcock reading, as many do, I think.

One of my favourite pre-Tolkien fantasy books is Clark Ashton Smith's _Zothique_ collection of short stories. CAS is, to me, the perfect balance of Howard and Lovecraft (with whom he was associated, of course).

@outlawbookselleroriginal

2 ай бұрын

Yes, great stuff, not quite S&S but definitely a contributory founder.

Brilliant video. Very informative. Thank you.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

Thanks, you're very kind!

Great to see the Viriconium Sequence on the list and getting its due. I’m not a fantasy reader at all, but absolutely adore those books.

A great video, fascinating. Like you I'm more of an SF reader, but I do appreciate good, literary fantasy. I have a NESFA edition of de Camp's time travel stories, Years In The Making.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I was looking at the NESFA about 2 days ago online.V nice - in the end, I bought the Van Vogt, love their books, always superb.

This list of yours is like a summary of all my favourite writers. I began reading fiction not that long ago, around 2008 or so, but the first things I read were all the fantasy and sf masterworks by gollancz and that cemented what became my favourites. Jack Vance, M John Harrison, Le Guin, Leiber, these are among my favourite writers. A really solid list. I would have added Clark Ashton Smith and Roger Zelazny too.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I can't argue with that. You clearly have taste a cut above the average Fantasy reader- those Masterworks are Masterworks for many reasons, as you've probably divined. Trouble is, you read stuff this good and after that will struggle to find much in the genre that matches these seminal works.

@jeroenadmiraal8714

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Most of today's bloated fantasy trilogies I skip. I gravitate more towards SF and what they call New Weird, what Harrison, Mieville and Vandermeer were doing. The only fantasy mega-series that I thought was worth the investment, besides the first books of A Song of Ice and Fire, is the Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. Erikson really has a different approach to writing epic fantasy. He utilises literary techniques and essentially writes short stories which combine together to form big books. And he has a very strong thematic focus. I find his series a proud continuation of what fantasy is capable of, as an extension of Howard, Moorcock, Zelazny and Glen Cook. Other than that, most fantasy series make me tired just looking at the books in the store.

I didn't realize Sutcliff did a Beowulf retelling, I'm going to have to find a copy! I love Sword & Sorcery, Leiber is probably my favorite, but Howard is close. I haven't read Saunders or Wagner yet though, so that could change. Great video (so far, didn't realize it was going to be so long)!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Yes, her Beowulf is very good indeed - obviously aimed at younger readers, but excellent as all her stuff is - the original title was 'The Dragon Slayer', but these days it's a handsome Puffin entitled simply 'Beowulf'. Glad you enjoyed the video, if you like Leiber, check out my video from around a month ago about Michael Shea.

that was my introduction to sword and sorcery fiction that particular Conan book! Tower Of The Elephant is my absolute fave Conan tale, I eventually discovered Michael Moorcock and Elric too

Great video, i think you hit it square on about Elric and Moorcock’s great heroic fantasy, not just Elric, but he was amazing. I would definitely add Clark Ashton Smith, and while you are right that CL Moore is terrific and neglected, her husband, Henry Kuttner was also excellent, his Elak of Atlantis stories are very Conan and Kull like, The 2 Prince Raynor pulp tales are fun. Thanks for this very interesting and informative video.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Cheers Gary, I think you're right on all counts. I will be talking about CAS in a future video, deifferent context. You can't beat the old S&S!

Great recommendations, as a side note I would be really interested in getting your take on Kenneth bulmmers dray Prescot series

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I'll be honest, I've only ever flicked through them. I met Ken Bulmer once (his usual byline), nice fellow and a British SF stalwart. I tend to avoid massive series like that due to the inevitability of resurgent formula. I cleave to pioneers when I'm in this mode and find short stories by the likes of the original S&S writers far more enjoyable than anything written after the 1960s, Moorcock, Harrison and Shea excepted. My interest in Fantasy is really in its historical relationship in authorship and publishing to SF. Once Del Rey got Brooks off the ground, it was pretty much Game Over for true S&S. Eventually it was co-opted into Tolkienesque High Fantasy by the likes of George R R Martin and Steven Erikson and became 'Grimdark', but it's simply not my thing. Fleet, hard, fast and in small doses does it for me and irregularly, I'm afraid!

Great vid, Steve. Happy to find that I have a couple of these.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

This is the well-written and influential stuff, Matt - I rarely feel the urge to go beyond these books when it comes to S&S, as time is better spent with genre SF between 1950 and 1990. Take care of yourself, friend.

@Bookpilled

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I suspect you'll be pleased to hear I'm reading Ballard. Just finishing High Rise, might circle back and read Atrocity Exhibition and Crash after.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@Bookpilled -'High Rise' is, as much as I like it, my least fave of the Urban Trilogy. 'Atrocity' is very, very hard New Wave and may be best left until you've read ' Vermilion Sands' and the 60s story collections. 'Crash' is ultimate Ballard, where the line between SF and mainstream is rubbed out - it' SF, but only in the way that contemporary technology has changed the psyches of the characters. Go slowly and thoughtfully, but as an admirer of Mishima, you'll get him.

LOVE Moorcock! Corum & Hawkmoon & "Warhound and The World's Pain". Great Fantasy/ S&S! There are new HC Collections -Super NICE! Give Mike your Money! I think the fastest way to explain Melnibonean Dragon Lords to the uninitiated these days is (sadly) by comparison with Targaryens. GRRM has always been clear about his influences & homages, just as Moorcock has been. Sapkowski. . . not so much. In fact Moorcock frequently cites "The Broken Sword". Fafhrd & Grey Mouser are SO good! Amazingly modern too - first story from 1936? !! It was SO fresh & lively & even had a little Clark Ashton Smith influence as well. Knight & Knave doesn't play well for today's kids. I need to re-read all of them. I still haven't gotten the Traveler in Black, and I NEED to dig deeper into J.M. Harrison! I *have* scored that omnibus with the cool clockwork cover. OMG Jack Vance is SO good! The 1st book is SO tasty, weird & detached - like chewing on breakfast cereal watching Thundar; and Cugel!! - never have I been SO interested in reading what happens next to a protagonist I don't really like. The master. There's a series of Elric books from 2008-2010 that reorganized the stories in publishing order with lots of extra material and it's a compleat Sh*t Show. Interesting for the enthusiast, but *terrible* for the reading- ESPECIALLY the reader NEW to any of this. Did I say Great Video? Can we have an in depth on each?

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

'The Broken Sword' is mentioned in the epigraph of one of the early Elric novels, can't think which one, that's why I read it early 80s, my fave S&S singleton of all time. GRRM obviously has a link to MM, though when I met him we discussed his debt to Zelazny, specifically 'Nine Princes In Amber' - obviously both Z and GRRM were thinking Machiavelli too. There are two earlier MM vids on the channel where I reveal my demy and royal format MM books, sans the Millennium set and some odds I which I need to film for a third MM collection vid. Agree re the new reader point, people really struggle with where to start, although I think Elric and Cornelius are the fulcrums of the Champion sequence, Hawkmoon is probably easier to start with, there being no later additions or major revisions to all seven books.

Thank you for this delightful video. Seems like I have some more reading to do.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Another video coming in a few weeks about Fantasy in the 1980s.

@maxelkjaernersting

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I'll be long forward to it

Excellent choices. I have been a big R. E. Howard fan since the early 70s, and love most of the authors you present here. I took notes as you were speaking, and your top 10 appears to be a top 12 1/2 (which is fine by me): Vance, Lieber, Howard, Moore, DeCamp and Pratt, Anderson, Brunner, Moorcock, LeGuin, Harrison, Shea, Martin, and Zelazny (the 1/2 bonus). I was a bookseller starting back in 1974 for several years. What an interesting time for Fantasy. In America, Harrison was not as well known as he was/is in England. I just picked up the Viriconium a while ago, and am in the middle of the first book (so far, so good). I will keep your 'deconstruction' evaluation in mind as I read going forward. I will search your channel and see if you have more to say about this and on Harrison; but I would love to know more about how you think he was deconstructing Sword and Sorcery in the Viriconium (usually we think of deconstructionism as a method of critical analysis used by critics, and not used initially by authors as they write their works). A video on this would be interesting. I had come to the conclusion a while ago that rereading some of these authors would be a good use of my time. I have a copy of the del Ray edition of The Broken Sword which I need to track down and reread. I also enjoy planetary romance, and am planning on rereading the Mars series by E. R. Burroughs.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

All good stuff you're naming there. I will be doing some specific things on M John, as I know him a little and I'm thinking about his role in the Science Fantasy debate: is it science or magic? Something on this coming next year...

@captainnolan5062

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Well, from what I have seen so far in the Viriconium, his prose is top notch, and his 'world' is certainly 'fantastic.' Swordsmen fighting alongside characters in mechanized body armor! I will look forward to this video from you as well. It reminds me (of course I am only partially into the first book) of planetary romance, in the sense that it takes place on what appears to be a different planet, with a combination of fantasy and science fiction elements.

Great selection! I have read at least some books of all the ones mentioned but two: Shea and Moore (I admittedly have never heard of her but it sounds very interesting). "The broken sword" is too dark to be my absolute favorite but it's a stunning book, far more atmospheric, darker and better written than what passed for "grimdark" in the last 25 years. (I had forgotten that this was so old, I thought it was from the late 60s). I also love Jack Vance, but I slightly prefer Lyonesse to Dying Earth, although it's less consistent. The first Lyonesse is by far the best,, the second starts well but end bizarrely and the last one has a very rushed ending because Vance's health was faiilng (but later recovered). It's less Sword & Sorcery, more high fantasy/medieval romance but has dark, twisted and funny elements as well.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

Watch my latest video on collecting SF special editions and you'll see some lovely Vance books near the end. There is also a video about Moore on the channel posted last oct/nov but it focuses more on her SF.

Though it is high tragedy I love the imagery set forth in The Broken Sword and think it would make a great movie if properly done. The same for another fantasy by Poul Anderson; Three Hearts and Three Lions. I remember back in the eighties that a lot of people wanted David Bowie to play Elric of Melnibone' in a movie.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

4 ай бұрын

Yes, 'The Broken Sword' would make a great film- but the trouble is, the Studios with enough cash to fund it always think in very generic ways...

Earthsea changed my appreciation completely in my 30s when I encountered it.

Thanks for this brilliant video! I've recently gotten into Robert E. Howard's Conan stories which are fantastic. As a teenager, I read Le Guinn, Tolkien, Feist, Pratchett, Gemmell, Goodkind, R.R. Martin but have missed a lot of the ones you mention here. Tried to read some contemporary fantasy like Brandon Sanderson but a lot of it feels poorly written, derivative, and samey which is a shame. Hey ho, now I've got your list to go through!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Glad you like it. Stick with the originals and you won't go far wrong, I say!

Thank you for the recommendations !! I just found your channel!!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

No problem, hope you enjoy more of the videos, another big Fantasy video coming in a few weeks time.

My comment vanished🤔 Now the NSA knows I listen to Stephen while cleaning the tub😂. Great video. i bought the Gollanz Conan....and have several titles to add to the "buy it" list now!!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

9 ай бұрын

This has happened a few times recently, it is a recurrent youtube glitch that I find infuriating, sorry about that Mark-rcvd the Vonnegut last night, btw, lovely-THANKS SO MUCH!

@glockensig

9 ай бұрын

Glad it got there in good shape!!

What an amazing video!! Since I haven’t read any of these series yet, except Earthsea, which book would you recommend me picking up first after LOVING LeGuin?

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Well, LeGuin's influence is more predominant over female authors than male ones-- although she is universally admired - and her sway begins to affect US female fantasy writers significantly by the mid to late 1970s. Contemporary Fantasy shows only a watered-down leGuin influence, inherited by today's writers via other writers and generally not directly from leGuin. I'd suggest the works of Patricia McKillip- such as 'The Forgotten Beasts of Eld' and Jane Yolen perhaps....and be aware that before 1977, there were still a significant number of singleton fantasies (whereas after this, they're pretty much all series- watch my video 'The Artificial Fantasy Trilogy Since 1977' to understand the commercial decisions and the publishing moment that resulted in the endless series and trilogy default of today). One of the main reasons you will not have encountered these series if you are under 35 or so is that they don't fit the model that arose in 1977, when the Tolkien template was applied to everything: the likes of Anderson, Leiber, Moorcock, Vance et al generally wrote for magazines, so most of their Sword & Sorcery sagas were short stories, only later fixed up into books - the paperback did not come to dominate genre publishing until the mid 1960s. Tolkien, writing one huge book that was then divided into three, was the outsider, not the norm. So today, the original S&S writers are virtually forgotten and their books are short and sometimes episodic- but they are more original, preceded today's pretenders by decades and are usually far better written. Enjoy your Fantasy journey, move into LeGuin's SF and watch more of the Fantasy on this channel to improve your knowledge- my book, '100 Must Read Fantasy Novels' is still available as an ebook on kindle and other e-formats.

@Indigo_snakes

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal thank you very much!! I’ll definitely check out some of those recommendations, and thanks for sharing your knowledge it’s really fascinating!

interesting take. I am of similar age to you although my recommendations would be different. I totally agree about S&S be the original fantasy format and still love it. I don't hold to the view that only REH's Conan stories are worth reading. A lot of later pastiches of which I have many, were actually rather good, including those written by Robert Jordan. Good to hear a mention of Zelazny's 9 Princes and don't forget the stupendous Moorcock series The Eternal Champion.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. Would love to hear your choices. I am admittedly a S&S traditionalist, feeling that little after the 1970s is worth going near....

That is a wonderful and very good video. I read modern fantasy as well, at least some of it. But i am with you as you said, most modern stuff is unnecessary bloated. And every so often i come back to my very favourite story, wich is beyond the black river from Howard. May be this is bcs it was the first sword and sorcery i've ever read, but this such a lively short story. Still love that one....

@outlawbookselleroriginal

4 ай бұрын

Yes, Howard has an arguably crude but sharply honed poetry that cannot be denied. Glad you liked the video.

Was sent in your direction by Bookpilled. Very interesting video, great background knowledge.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Matt at Bookpilled is a good guy and then some. Stick with me, check out the backlist and get watching it and your knowledge will swell accordingly...more Fantasy to come, particularly classic S&S, Tolkien and Literary Fantasy.

@gbeat7941

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal cheers, will do, already catching up 👍

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@gbeat7941 -Thanks, hope you enjoy the rest of the channel!

Another excellent post. I know most of the books mentioned very well and wouldn't argue with any of your choices. Like you, I don't read much S and S any more, but I do read a lot of fantasy. You don't mention much about the work of writers like John Crowley, Tim Powers, James Blaylock, Gene Wolfe, Jo Walton, Avram Davidson, Elizabeth Hand, Lucius Shepard, who I would call fantasy writers even though they don't fall into traditional fantasy definition. I often have trouble explaining the sort of stuff I like to people who don't read fantasy. The nearest I can come to a definition is Literary Fantasy but this always sounds pretentious. Are these sort of books to your taste, and do you intend covering any in future? You did mention Gene Wolfe, but his body of work is so complex that it might take up a month of videos by itself.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I'll address this in a future video, but that's why I entitled this video Classic Fantasy/Sword & Sorcery. The term has become almost wholly identified with High Fantasy and S&S since the late seventies- before this it had a vague, less 'market-specific' feel. However, Fantasy is very, very broad by its very nature, same as realism is. I think Fantasy's defining characteristic is that (1) it allows the irrational and inexplicable (unlike Realism, which cannot do so) and (2) it is not separated from other fiction as SF is by use of a scientific novum, but is instead separated from SF and Realism by something anachronistic and or supernatural. SF relies on a consensual agreement that the post- enlightenment scientific worldview of nature and science as being the same thing, a paradigm which excludes the existence of the supernatural and inexplicable. Once science 'explains' these things, they are natural, not supernatural and they are therefore science, not magic. I talk about this in my 'elements of sf' videos. But I know what you mean - so say to people 'I like Fabulation - literary fantasy'. If they think in market sets, they won't get it anyway - I've had these conversations at work with customers for almost 40 years, daily. People make assumptions about content/form, based on screen representations and what is popular. Very frustrating, which is where reasoned argument and channels like this come in. I like all those writers you cite too, so I know what you mean. Glad you liked the video, many thanks!

@allanlloyd3676

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Steve, is there some way you can give me your address without posting on a public forum. I need to send you that David Hutchinson book when I have read it. Or if you are coming to Hay I could do a quick hand-over. I promise not to disturb your serious book buying time!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@allanlloyd3676 - look at the channel on a pc, go to the about page and there's a way of finding an email address for me there. cheers!

Great video thoroughly enjoyed it. Any thoughts on Karl Edward Wagner's Kane books?

@outlawbookselleroriginal

10 күн бұрын

Several people have mentioned Wagner. He never had much presence in the UK market, so isn't really part of my pantheon, but he arguably has a place among the greats.

@liamschulzrules

10 күн бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal No prob. Centipede are about to publish a set and Im contemplating whether I should splurge

could you make a video about arthurian legends? they seem very interesting and i want to get an idea of the books and where to start

@outlawbookselleroriginal

5 ай бұрын

It's a HUGE topic and have mentioned a few on the channel, but I will tackle this next year. The vast majority of great ones from the 'Modern Classic' period of Arthurian Fiction (70s and 80s) are out of print, but of course it goes way back as Literature to the early Medieval period....leave it with me.

The Pastel City I had never heard of. Added to the TBR 👍

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

It's a gentle start to a series that half way through goes places no-one else does. Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, all the Dying Earth worlds, Viriconium is the most radical!

Interested in your narrative of the fantasy trilogy from LOTR through Shannara to today, but I'm wondering where and if the Narnia books fit into all this, I'm not sure what the history of it's popularity is as a series.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Well, the Narnia books, being written for children though strong on Christian allegory don't really belong to a Genre Fantasy tradition as do the American Sword & Sorcery pioneers, also since they were published as novels first, not as magazine serials. There is, of course, a huge amount of Fantasy that doesn't fit into the popular usage (meaning Genre Fantasy, i.e. that which arose out of pulp magazines). Lewis belongs to a much broader tradition but I don't see him influencing S&S or High Fantasy- I also think Tolkien was the outsider, co-opted into the Genre bracket by publishers, who then used his 3 volume structure (again, imposed by publishers) as a tremplate. Of course, Tolkien and the US S&S people were all influenced by Dunsany, Eddison and William Morris, who were in turn inspired by Norse literature, so it enters Genre Fantasy from a long, old tradition...

What!!, did anyone or anybody ever heard Lin Carter “Thongor “ Swords and Sorcery series or L. Sprague de Camp who did write some swords and sorcery or I’m the only fool to remember those authors, and besides that thank you bringing up subjects of Swords and sorcery “ fantasy is my favorite too, that another things)

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Remember them well, they were everywhere in the 1970s.

Just discovered your channel and really like it. I just wonder if you have read The Knight and The Wizard by Gene Wolfe? If you like Broken Sword and I am sure as a si-fi fan you already know The Book of the New Sun by Wolfe, you might really enjoy those too. Cheers

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I've been selling Gene Wolfe's books since 1984 and have been reading him on and off since the 1980s. I consider 'The Book of the New Sun' as SF- I will be covering him in upcoming videos and one of his rarest books is covered in my Kerosina video. Thanks for the compliment.

For those looking for top notch Sword and Sorcery adventures, Karl Edward Wagner's Kane is an all time great. Norvell W Page's Hurricane John books Flame Winds and Sons of the Bear God are well worth reading. The Theives World shared universe are very good. Tempus Thales in my opinion being a top 5 S&S character. Lastly David Gemmell's Druss the Legend deserves way more attention than it gets. His Waylander and Skilgannon books also good.

Not that I am debating your definitive list here, but I am curious if you've ever encountered the Kane stories by Karl Edward Wagner. They are dark, but very engaging.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I have - and I don't claim to be definitive, this is just my personal take, though I feel it relfects the critical consensus broadly- Wagner is far more popular in the USA than he is in Britain, where his publishing has been very intermittent (you're not the first to mention him to me, by the way, so maybe I should revisit him). Thanks for your comment!

What a great video! Thank you very much. It is like a lesson from university about sword and sorcery. Greetings from Ukraine btw! Nine princes of amber just opened the books for me... and the Game of thrones I agree it is so perfect. I cannot find so great novel among other epic modern fantasy books. I didn’t like so much Abercrombie, Sanderson and Rothfuss.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

You clearly have good taste -the S&S writers of today are nothing compared to their predecessors: Abercrombie has his moments, but I found reading a whole trilogy by him was enough and since then I've struggled to maintain interest in any contemporary S&S writers -one volume is enough before I quit! Hope you are Ok over there, may you, all your friends and family prevail against Putin! Best of luck, your forces and leader and people are so brave!

@yelisieimurai

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal completely agree! I finished “the first law” trilogy and do not understand, why Abercrombie is a king of so called grim dark? I even do not think the first law is grim dark, all main characters are not so bad at all. Thank you for support and good words about us and our country, Ukraine still stands because of great support from UK, USA, and other countries, we all very appreciate that. Without you, we would became the part of russia (again), and I really don’t want to live in Mordor :)

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@yelisieimurai Well, watch my video on 'Grimdark' to see what I think of that term! Remember, so many people around the world believe in Ukraine, its people and the right to independence. Take care!

As someone that has read some of the Elric books in the new "Elric saga collection" (read saga vol 1 so far, which has, chronologically, the first four books in it, each books seems to consist of 3 or so smaller books). I don't think I've read books more influential on other fanatasy authors. Game of Thrones, the Witcher, Warhammer fantasy/40k it's all taking tons of inspiration from the Elric books. E.g. The famous chaos symbol from warhammer? Yeah, that's the symbol of the lords of Chaos in the Elric books. The dragon riding, sadistic mages called Targeryans? Basically the Melniboneans. The conjuncture of the Spheres? Yeah, Elric. etc etc. That said, the books are far from perfect. They are very pulpy. They read like you're watching a 60's/80's sword and sorcery TV show with all the cheap effects and sets etc. But to be fair, the sets are absolutely stunning and the good guy isn't always good. There is blood, some sex and gore. The good guy will sometimes just backstab other people to save his own skin etc. It's also very ... dramatic. Elric will throw himself to the ground and cry out in misery or pain because he failed or couldn't get the thing he wanted. Characters will often over react in their face expressions etc. Also, Elric is an idiot. There is no other way to put it. It makes absolutely zero sense for him to leave the throne to his cousin Yrrkoon. To leave Cymoril with him after what Yrrkoon does. No wonder he's obsessed with finding out if he's got free will or if the world he's in is superdeterministic, he can't stop making the absolute worst choices.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

5 ай бұрын

Yes, Elric is an eternal adolescent in many ways- it seems deliberate that MM wrote him this way, after all he once said 'I write for the audience I once was,'

I just finished Jirel of Joiry. It was really good but took a while for me to get accustomed to being not much of a fantasy reader (I believe this was my second ever sword and sorcery read, a single Conan story being the first). C. L. Moore is a great writer ans I suspect that I will enjoy the North West of Earth more readily. I enjoyed his character in the Quest of the Starstone and the ending made me chuckle.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

8 ай бұрын

I think you will enjoy Northwest more- it's the colour, sensuality and sheer authentic pulp of these I love- these things were fresh then, not cliche- amazing!

Great list, but I'm a little surprised that Karl Edward Wagner's Kane didn't make the list.

@salty-walt

Жыл бұрын

I don't know how deep he penetrated into the UK. He's VERY American in appeal.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Would have been a 13 not a 10 then, I reckon. Despite his quality, I don't think Wagner is critically canonical as the authors I covered - and in S&S, I'll admit I'm a real traditionalist, cleaving to the authors certain critics regard as seminal. I'm in that ball park as a critic, which is odd for me, as I usually kick against the pricks a bit.But then S&S is a very traditional form, requiring subtlety in subverting its defining symbolism- and for me it's the tradition, the anachronism, that I love, unlike in SF, where I always want to see the apple cart turned over against revisionist, conservative subgenres like Space Opera.

I get the sense that Outlaw thinks the best SF and fantasy has already been done in the 20th century.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Ай бұрын

Yes, I believe that is so. Fantasy - or to narrow it down to what most people mean by that usage (Sword & Sorcery and its near indistinguishable sister High Fantasy)- is a form that relies on anachronism and tradition and it ceased to be innovative a long time ago (watch my video 'The Artificial Fantasy Trilogy Since 1977' which outlines the history of the commercial formularisation of those subgenres, from which they've never recovered since the publishing model is based on endless sequels written for commercial rather than artistic reasons). Fantasy in the broader sense is still alive and kicking. As for SF, as a Modernist genre, it hit problems when certain writers and audiences demanded a return to its lowest common denominator- the Space Opera - just as it was coming to terms with Postmodernism via Cyberpunk. SF ceased to evolve and be subject to periodic revolutions as it had done since the naming of the genre in 1925. Like almost every artform, SF slowed down as technology sped up. There's a lot about this on the channel. Doesn't mean I don't like contemporary SF- there are some good books about, still (you'll also find videos about these on the channel) but the reality is that innovation, essential for SF, slowed down to a crawl decades ago...

When you started talking about an important female fantasy writer I thought you were going to talk about Tanith Lee!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Well, Tan did a bit of S&S too as you well know...she'd be in a top 15 easily.

This is the kind of video I love to see on youtube: passionate people sharing what they love. Speaking only for myself, I never considered Princess of Mars as separate from the Sword and Sorcery genre.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

11 ай бұрын

Many thanks. Lots more like this on this channel. 'Princess' never mentions magic or the supernatural- though Carter's means of travel to Mars is arguably disputable on this point, but you won't find many professional commentators and critics who'd say it's anything but SF- in fact, it's a founding text of the Planetary Romance subgenre, a broader usage which some newbies, not knowing the term and wanting to be more specific, have labelled Sword & Planet, a very inelegant designation.

@TheSamuraiGoomba

11 ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I get what you're saying, but when I look at the framework for a sword and sorcery story, if you just place "science" in the same position as "magic," it all still fits. A lot of post-apocalyptic fantasy stories will do something similar, using psychic powers or science-magic-hybrids. But in the context of the story, it functions *as* magic, in the sense of facilitating the story without requiring explanation or logic. It's been some years since I read the Mars books, so I don't remember if Carter's transition to Barsoom was ever explained scientifically or if it works exactly like magic without being called magic. Planetary Romance is a fine name but it just strikes me that Planetary Romance, Sword and Sorcery, Science Fantasy etc are all extremely close subgenres, and they frequently dip into each other.

Ace had a nice edition of The Traveller in Black.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

10 ай бұрын

They did indeed, very handsome. The later Severn House hardcover is spiffing but simple, but super-uncommon.

Stephen, are you much a fan of Patricia McKillip? Curious if you've ever read her work. Not that she's Sword and Sorcery (or maybe she is in small part. I'm new to all this), but just curious as she's my roommate's favorite fantasy author.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Yes, she produced some elegant, sophisticated work, but have not read any of it for a long time!

@thomasgarr8875

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Very nice. I've read some excerpts and I'm always struck by her prose. I just need to get around to finally reading some full works. She was close with Peter Beagle (who seems to also have been a huge admirer of her work) who I've very much enjoyed, so I'm sure I'll love her stuff.

Fortress of the Pearl is quite different from the original 6 part saga. But it's so good I think it might actually be my favorite. Still need to read Revenge of the Rose and the trilogy.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I need to re-read 'Fortress', but I recall vividly not enjoying it that much on initial publication - and yes, of course it's different, it was written a long time after the earlier tales, when MM was in a more literary phase of S&S writing, characterised by 'The War Hound & The World's Pain' and 'City in the Autumn Stars', both very firm faves of mine.

I'm in the process of trying to write a fantasy book myself where could I get your book of the 100 best fantasy books? As reference material and it would help my process. I live in the United States I'm going to assume you're in Great Britain. Let me know if there's a website I can order it from or how you do that.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

'100 Must Read Fantasy Novels' is now out of print in hard copy and has become quite collectable since I posted this video. It is still available as a kindle ebook from amazon on both sides of the atlantic and probably from the Bloomsbury/A&C Black website as a standard format ebook. I've just checked abebooks and ebay and no-one seems to be selling it secondhand anywahere currently, I'm afraid.

Did you ever get around to obtaining the first two Lyonesse novels?

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Ай бұрын

Yes, but not in the condition I'd prefer, though I now have Underwood Miller signed numbered limited editions which I show in a more recent video.

singletons fan here also. I give bonus marks for any great books under 200 pages! (see stig of the dump and most of penelope lively's output!) What a wonderful, richly researched and knowledgeable discussion. A great reading friend put me on to Howard and Vance and it changed my life, and outlook.

Some series that are either not mentioned or only mentioned in passing that I would include in my pantheon of early low-fantasy: Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy stories: Sherlock Holmes meets fantasy, starting in 1964. The magic in the series is what would most commonly be referred to today as "Hard", which is to say that it works by defined rules, so the answers to the mysteries can be discerned by a careful reader. Andre Norton's Witch World series: First book published in 1963. You mentioned Norton as a writer of children's fiction, which I think mischaracterizes both this series and her catalog. The series is quite dark and not particularly aimed at younger readers. Roger Zelazny's Amber series: First book published in 1970. Among my favorite fantasy series (the second series is weaker, but still entertaining), this is decidedly fantasy. You can argue that it's high fantasy, which would be a respectable position, given the stakes, but the trappings of the story owe, I submit, much more to the darker world views seen in pulp fiction. It's certainly not the sort of Bildungsroman quest fiction that became popular when Tolkien swept through publishing. Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series. First book published in 1958. The series started off as clearly SF, but much of the series has only an SF gloss, and many of the books ignore any science-fictional elements entirely. I put this solidly into fantasy because of the feel, but in a debate about whether the series is "truly" SF or fantasy, I could take either side and argue it with some force, I think.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Love the Lord Darcy stories and Amber. Norton I've read, always struggled with Bradley, but as you say, all important writers of Fantasy...

LotR is my favorite sword & sorcery novel. So incredible.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

7 ай бұрын

Well, you see that's an interesting point, as many claim LOTR is not S&S, but something they call 'High Fantasy' - but as 'The Encyclopedia of Fantasy' (ed Clute & Grant, the last word on the subject as far as I'm concerned) says, the difference between the two is negligible in terms of common tropes and symbols. LOTR is, of course, so much more popular than everything else and quite different to most of what I cover here. I've sold more copies of Tolkien's books than I could ever count during my career, but he never really does it for me, though I remain fascinated by him as a phenomenon, as you'll see in the Tolkien videos on this channel.

I felt like a college kid listening to a master professor... thx.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

You're very kind. I try and make it accessible and not be too academic - plus it's over a decade since I last guest lectured on SF and/or bookselling...

Having watched quite a few of your posts about SF and Fantasy, I would like to read comments on the 2 (Not 3) GORMENGHAST books. I have never read anything so good as these two books. But they were not SF or Fantasy. I'm not sure what they were. Yes I do...They were an absolute pleasure to read.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Ай бұрын

Which two- first and second? Be clearer and we'll see. I have mentioned them in my New Wave SF videos- mostly as asides to comments on Langdon Jones, who assembled the third book from fragments and in relation to the work of M John Harrison. if Peake's books are not Fantasy, what are they? They're not Realism, are they? They may not be S&S or 'High Fantasy', but they are Fantasy -they are set in an invented realm.

@user-zo7mr3op8i

Ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal The first two. I liberate them whenever I find them in charity shops and give them to anyone I meet who declares a love of great writing. No one has ever thanked me. Usually the subject is never brought up when I see them again. So I wondered what you followers think of them. Not fantasy in my opinion but they will surely appeal to some, if not all Fantasy lovers. These books are given high praise in both the Encyclopaedia of Fantasy AND the SF tome but the authors of those entries also seem to admit that they are something totally unique .

Im doing research for a script and these are so fucking helpful

@outlawbookselleroriginal

9 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it, caped crusader. Please subscribe and all that. Do watch the HUGE backlist, which anyone attempting to write anything will be able to mine for creative stimuli. Super-thanks tipping is a possibility if moved enough and minted enough to contribute. You're very welcome here.

It's Lye-ber, not Lieber. Great video. Very interesting with great suggestions. Thanks.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

5 ай бұрын

You're not the first to mention my mispronunciation, old habit and I'm Welsh. Glad you liked it.

Another excellent video and I don’t read fantasy.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Well, you get past a certain date with S&S and there's no point! Glad you enjoyed it.

Hi Steve: I fear another attempted comment by me has gone straight to Zelazny's Dung Pits of Glyve. Which, I guess, some might argue is where it belongs..

@salty-walt

Жыл бұрын

I TOO have experienced mysterious disappearing comments. (Not today though)

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

It's weird. Sometimes I get notifications of comments, then when I click on 'em to look, they're not there. Must be a yt glitch. annoying!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

It's weird. Sometimes I get notifications of comments, then when I click on 'em to look, they're not there. Must be a yt glitch. annoying!

SO many things!! One thing you touch tangentially was a difference I often harp on (sometimes incorrectly)- but from the other side! To MY perception as a US Book guy, the UK editions and their art appear to come and go, often being uninspired, or at least poor illustrations of the contents. Whereas the US editions art stayed more or less standardized for generations. Take Conan: The Lancer/Ace editions started coming out in the late 60's with Frazetta covers and kept those paintings until pretty recently (The decision to go all Trade PB) You've got a Conan in the thumbnail that looks like unsuccessful Van art - but the UK publishers and covers changed all the time - sometimes with AMAZING art (see your previous Bristol video's Ox-Fam visit's Burroughs Covers) even if it's not really illuminating the text. Likewise Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser Started coming out in Ace paperbacks in i968, but the editions we'd recognize were 1970's series with the suspiciously Frazetta like Jeff Jones cover art, until 1977's "Swords and Ice Magic" where Michael Whelan steps in to give snowy portraiture followed by Tom Canty's 1988 Cover to "The Knight and Knave of Swords". These cover illustrations remained the standard until the end of the century when White Wolf rendered the A formats "obsolete" with the release of 2 HC Omnibuses with some uncharacteristically uninspiring Mike Mignola art. Over here The Elric books were pretty standardized pretty early on, with the DAW series publication in 1972 & keeping those 6 standardized Michael Whelan covers into the 80's when they went to Berkley & got the Robert Gould covers they kept into the 2000's (until the near death of MassMarket pb). Once again, the White Wolf (Borealis) HC colections seem to have knocked the steam out of other editions. **Normally I'd agree that those standard 6 are the way to go for Moorcock, but in the past few months Tor's been dropping EXCELLENT, beautiful HC Omnibus editions with a color map, gorgeous covers, and 4 books to a collection!. These are corrected texts (WW f**ked up a lot of the typesetting, so He's gone over everything- but Mike agrees that you should shouldn't tinker with the old writing lest the tales' flavor suffer ) and MOST IMPORTANTLY IF YOU BUY THESE MIKE GETS A CUT - UNLIKE USED BOOKS- And he might be the only writer who's on your list who's still alive & could use people's money! And they're dropping an ALL NEW ELRIC book Dec 6th in matching HC Livery. "The Citadel of Forgotten Myths"

@waltera13

Жыл бұрын

Moorcock's got an anecdote about the Psychedelic Elric Cover you showed : There's *some* weird reason those editions have the UK titles & story arrangements (something with shifting rights & rushing them out) but apparently the artist looked up "Albinism" & the definition mentioned that it primarily effects the Black population of African descent so he portrayed Elric as kinda Black/kinda Moorish & gave Zarozinia an EPIC Fro. Me? I dig the butterfly wings.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

@@waltera13 -That Lancer edition is of course a US edition with a variant title and an abridged text. The reason why MMs pbk jackets in the UK, incidentally, is because MM was massively identified with 60s/70s counterculture over here. He lived in Ladbroke Grove. London's Haight-Ashbury, created Jerry Cornelius and performed/wrote with Hawkwind, Britain's premier acid rock band. In the late 70s punk song "How Much Longer?" by Alternative TV, a lyric runs '...they talk about Moorcock, the Floyd and Reading Festival,' illustrating the typical hippy in the UK. Good info re that cover, didn't know that !

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Hi Walt - as I think I said in the video, the problem with trying to standardise the Elric jackets in the UK was to do with a different publisher holding the rights to 'Elric of Melnibone'. They had the same covers in the UK right throughout the 70s (see my reply to Walter A re why these designs stuck), also, UK publishers changed hands and went through corporate identity shifts more often in Britain than in the US in that time. What had been Panther became Granada and at that time, the editions were standardised into the titles/running order of internal chronology as I mentioned when Collins (now Harpercollins) bought Granada and rebranded it as Grafton. Since then - early to mid 80s - MM's work has gone through numerous revisions, retitlings and changes at different publishers, initially with Orion/Millennium/Gollancz in the UK (my third bookshop event with Mike was when the new 14 volume 'Eternal Champion' saga, with a Von Bek omnibus placed at the start of the sequence ). Personally, I hated the cover art on these editions, but purchased them all, despite owning many earlier variants. although there were revisions to some texts prior to this, at this point it became a regular thing. There was allegedly a falling out between MM and a key figure at Gollancz and the presentation, jacketing and marketing of his work in the UK since has been a shambles with the result that his commercial star here faded into near obscurity by the late 90s. While I sold tons of MM in the 80s, these days, because the jacketing is so poor, I virtually have to force people to buy them and kids today have no idea who MM is or how important his work is. My suggestion for a first reading for new readers is based on the fact that 'Fortress' and 'Revenge' are shoehorned into the chronology and that stylistically, they are a poor fit among the earlier texts both in terms of prose flavour and the identity politics tinged themes MM began using more broadly in the later Elric trilogy, which is why I excluded mention of these. If a reader goes with the 6 'original revisions' as they stood in the UK in the 80s, the clearest narrative emerges. Many readers struggle with MM as you know, because they are fixated on the idea of beginnings and endings and the EC cycle doesn't work that way, right ? I think reading those editions as I suggest delivers an anchoring start point for MM reading. However, I totally agree re the point that Mike makes nothing from second hand books - I've been saying to readers for decades that if a book is in print, you should buy it new if you respect a writer, otherwise they won't be able to keep earning and consequently writing. I've found that once people are hooked by MM, they upgrade almost as a reflex action. I haven't seen the Tor editions, but I am aware of them - and of course they are not available in the UK for copyright reasons, Gollancz still tragically holding rights here. As a result of this, I too would endorse current Tor editions so as you say, MM can make some money. I mention the new Elric novel in the video I posted around a month ago about forthcoming uk sff books - can't wait for it, personally - will be my Christmas read! Re the specifics of the art, funnily enough me and the Video Widow were discussing representations of Elric last night - I've always favoured Achilleos' painting of Elric used for the UK cover design of the hardcover of 'Elric at the end of time' , despite it not being an early depiction. Rodney Matthew's super-stylised and of course unrealistic take on Elric was also very, very ubiquitous over here and is another version I favour. The Elric I see in my head is often very, very different to some of the more Frazetta-esque variants out there - and I remember owning a Whelan illustrated 'Vanishing Tower' limited edition many years ago. Anyway, thanks for yr insightful and detailed comment, fully agree we need to see mm making some cash!

@salty-walt

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Caught your previous Elric plug. I was stoked! I totally agree with your points. Thank you for clarifying some of the company swallowing/rights specifics - I hope I didn't "Make you" write or repeat yourself. I understand that there was a bit that was beyond control, but in your vid you kept mentioning different images on previous (usually Gollancz) covers and it sparked what seemed like a recognition of a cultural divide, but from the opposite side as usual. I wasn't sure if you were aware HOW standardized our image of some of these had become! OK, Now I'm repeating. 😅 As an Anglophile & book hunter from the "before times" (even in a major US city) it was tricky to find A LOT of Moorcock books. It was YEARS before I could get all three Erekose books just to read! British editions were only found randomly & SO disconnected from everything I knew about him (circa 80's shopping) I understood the whole Jerry Cornelius thing (or *think* I do) but non representative psychedelic covers on S&S books? Wait, WHAT? When talking with other booksellers all over this country any of them would share in the joke about "Bad British Covers". Had a long informative written exchange with Mike about the Haberfield covers (he is SO gentle & kind I felt quite the heel for ever having pointed out their inadequacies as illustration) and not only what a good friend Bob was, but how EARNEST he was about them being allegorical and representative of the spiritual nature of the books (which he read.) I did NOT know of the Hippy ubiquity or level of cultural saturation there. Here he was well respected, but NEVER entry level. He was 2nd or 3rd tier geekery. AND NOBODY knows Hawkwind here except occasionally as a Motorhead footnote ("Lemmy's old band.) I feel that Bob Gould was probably best at capturing the "Internal World" of Elric. It was subtle (usually) but the emotions displayed were key. Probably because Bob was the only one illustrating his inner world! Look at Bane o/t B.S.: Zarozinia knows the truth. I *KNOW* the Whelan special edition you're talking about and it pains me too. When I talked to Whelan about his Elric rendering he admitted that he was pushed a little to make them more commercially viable, and his Elric of Melnibone cover (with the THIC Arms) was a bit rushed on a deadline & that he wanted to show another side of Elric with *his* "Elric at the End of Time" cover. The DAW was the only one I recall here in the States, { which BTW was there, in person, on a giant canvas- Elric emaciated, drawn, weak, soulful eyes in reverie - it was breathtaking.) Whelan's Fafhrd & Grey Mouser? Definative. Recognizable out of context! I totally agree about the later books having different styles & different focus. The "Dream Theif," or "Fortress of the Pearl " was about someone else & Elric served as framing device. Stick to the canonical 6 (Just ignore the unnecessary in book in each HC! ;) ) The HC is just easier & cheaper to find here. With 1.5K subscribers, are you sure where MOST of them are from? It is late.

@waltera13

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Gosh, you've got me second guessing my own memory; I'm now unsure if Mike said that was the FACT of those covers, or his supposition. Trying to recall the presence of the word "probably" from more than 20 years ago. I *thought* that was his explanation.

If you haven't indulged, you owe yourself the Old Kingdom novels by Garth Nix. Nominally YA but probably my favorite series and I've been reading the stuff for over 60 years.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

10 ай бұрын

I know Garth a little, but have only read some of his most recent books.

nice video

@outlawbookselleroriginal

10 ай бұрын

Many thanks. Do check out the other Fantasy videos here- there is a playlist and there will be more.

Very nice discussion - it's sad that short fantasy novels are so much a thing of the past, even though I believe there's more good stuff today than you suggest, but it does require careful discernment. I recently read the first Malazan novel - it's a big book, but simply amazing, with a very lean style and a refusal to hold the reader's hand. I've heard the series gets even better. Erikson is definitely an heir to the classic fantasy tradition, and does fascinating things with it. On the other hand there's Sanderson, who in my opinion is unreadable. I do want to return to these older books, however. I recently started buying the new hardcover complete edition of Elric, which apparently is being issued in anticipation of the new Elric novel coming out next month. As a kid I loved the Corum books but for some reason read very little Elric. I need to remedy that. Another one I read as a kid, and absolutely loved, was Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions - so I really ought to go back and read The Broken Sword and his other fantasies. Thanks so much for the recommendations.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Glad to hear you're enjoying Poul, his fantasies are clearly his best work. Yes, the Malazan books are a cut above- I included the first in my book '100 Must Read Fantasy Novels' back in 2009.

I've made several attempts to repost my original comments without success so I'll try a brief resume here and hope for the best. Basically what I said boils down to this: five of your choices are safe sure bets while the others are more contentious. I agree with others here that Karl Edward Wagner is a far more significant figure in the development of sword and sorcery than some you mention and as deserving of inclusion as L Sprague de Camp is most definitely undeserving. Whatever the merits of the Harold Shea series (and personally I think the whole modern-man-meets-the-gods thing was done better by Edmond Hamilton anyway) they are offset by the wholesale damage De Camp inflicted on the genre. First by the wanton vandalism he wreaked on Howard's original work, and then through the proliferation of godawful Conan pastiches which put the cause of the genre back decades. As someone who values literary quality I find it inconceivable you would put up a defence for them, or seriously consider their co-author a significant figure in the field. Infamous is nearer the mark. Bear in mind too that the solo s&s work he produced, such as the Pusad series, is beyond execrable. On a lighter note, I'm sure mine weren't the only eyebrows to raise in response to your promotion of CL Moore to the ranks of the Weird Tales triumverate at the expense of Clark Ashton Smith. I mean, come on Steve. Seriously? Finally, Howard's HOUR OF THE DRAGON is a novel. It was written as such for a British publisher who went bust before it could be published. It might be an episodic novel cannibalized from earlier stories but it is a novel nonetheless. It only ran as a serial in Weird Tales by default.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure I said that 'Hour of the Dragon' is a novel, but I see what you're saying. The Shea stories I said were a 'bonus', not in my top ten. I love Smith too, but I am a bit bonkers for Moore, largely because I'm trying to raise her profile, as I think she's wonderful and under-read these days: too many younger readers need at least "Shambleau" and "Song in a Minor Key" under their belts - yes, SF, I know. Finally, this is my personal, subjective list, not intended to be a more objective canonical one thought out to satisfy anyone beyond myself - but I'd defend them all as worthy of a more objective measure. I did the balanced thing in my book '100 Must Read Fantasy Novels', including canonical and popular books that failed to hit me where I lived, so this time I was self-indulgent - and I am always happy to challenge the critical consensus. You must let me know which ones were contentious, Richard - thanks for your comment.

You briefly mentioned Terry Brooks' The Sword of Shannara, but I don't think it's importance can be overstated. It really kicked off the fantasy renaissance of the early 80's. Not saying it's a great book (though I enjoyed it), but it did inspire a lot of writers to get into fantasy and proved to publishers that fantasy sells

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I mentioned it briefly because it is VERY important historically in the scheme of genre publishing - I cover its importance extensively in my video 'The Artifiical Fantasy Trilogy Since 1977' in the Fantasy playlist on this channel. I agree it's not a great book - in fact I think it's success unleashed a torrent of mostly formulaic dross that has negatively impacted the quality of Fantasy being written and devastated SF's former dominance of the genre market. And you're right, Fantasy was a minority interest prior to that book, but it had been growing steadily since Tolkien became mega-successful in the 1960s. As I say, check out the video and you'll see we are on the same page.

Will your book "100 Must-read Fantasy Novels" be reprinted?

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Unlikely at this stage. Unlike my SF book, it was a commercial failure, largely because my publicist at the time (who was new to the job) failed to get the book any publicity, not even a single press review. My previous publicist had been very good and always managed to get me national press and national radio, which meant that my other two books sold well - her success at her job meant she was promoted, so I ended up with a newbie who didn't measure up. It was published in 2009, when the financial crash had kicked in and social media/online marketing etc was less developed then as well. Depending on how the channel goes over the next year, I may try and rework both the SF and Fantasy books - however, the first is still selling and thus remains in copyright, while the other must be out of print in all formats (including ebooks) internationally before I can reclaim the rights to revise and resell it. On the SF front, my publisher will not pay me to revise, expand and update it as they'd have to give me a new advance, it still sells and as my last editor said 'people can look this stuff up now, so why would we revise it?' Publishers now are very much of the idea that if it can be googled or wikipedia'd, then it's not commercially viable. I've said to them 'But the books have context as well as content about individual titles/authors.' but they won't go for it. So my future plans for writing - at least this year-are focused on short fiction.

@captainnolan5062

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Well that is a tragedy. Although people can google "the 100 best Fantasy" or some such, what we ant is the context of a trusted authority (or at least someone whose taste we agree with, or that matches our reading sensibility). I can already sense that I would enjoy the books you recommend (from the books you recommended in the top10). I will have to look for a used copy of the fantasy book. I do see that the Top 100 Science Fiction book is available. Perhaps you should do a video on which books you would add to the list since the publication of your Top 100 books (and which they would replace) in your top 100 [both Science Fiction and Fantasy]. Or perhaps do two video series (10 books each vide) for a total of 20, giving your current top 100 in each genre. I will also take a look at the Top 100 Books for Men. Thanks for the details about the Fantasy book (unfortunate as they are).

@captainnolan5062

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal Can you find a used copy for me?

I sometimes feel like you have a disdain or such for modern fantasy (which I wont blame you for because 90% is garbage). Regardless, do you have any list or video of modern spanking new novels or authors you really liked ? Cheers from India

@outlawbookselleroriginal

11 ай бұрын

Hello and thanks for your comment, delighted to hear from someone from India, good to have you on board! Generally, contemporary Fantasy and SF are out of favour with me, yes. Strictly speaking, they are not 'Modern' as Modernism as a cultural period ended in the late 1980s, but I understand you're working with the everyday usage of the word here. Fantasy - particularly of the Sword & Sorcery/High Fantasy school(s), which is what I'm discussing here and what the majority of readers mean when they say 'Fantasy' - is by definition not Modern, but anachronistic: it's an old form of storytelling, with symbols andf tropes based on myth, religion, superstition and historical chronicles. I refer to all of this in other Fantasy videos on the channel and there is a Fantasy playlist. I don't do 'lists' to order, but I sometimes produce 'top' videos like this one, which are slightly subversive as I usually go beyond the number of titles cited and are not ranked. Context is more important. In 2009 my book '100 Must Read Fantasy Novels' was published and at the moment, I am in the process of reclaiming the copyright to get it reissued in hard copy as currently it's only an ebook. It was meant to be published in India some 7-8 years ago according to my publisher, but I've never seen a copy and think this did not happen. My interest in Fantasy is really only a sidebar to my core focus, which is SF. As almost 90% of everything is garbage always, and as Fantasy is such a played-out form, issued in endless series for commercial rather than artistic reasons, I rarely feel the urge to read 'new' material, as there is usually little 'new' about it, unlike SF and the mainstream, where there is still some freshness. A look at my video 'The Artificial Fantasy Trilogy Since 1977' expands on my reasons for disdaining much of the genre since that time. There is a possibility I may revise the Fantasy book, but in an overview additional essay, rather than expanding it to cover the 21st century, but as yet I'm undecided on this. Any 'new' Fantasy suggestions from me will come in this print form, not on this channel, unless something grabs me, I read it and it blows me away, which is unlikely. You'll find references to new SF scattered throughout the channel, but as I'm a mature, experienced commentator and reader, I'm not as fixated on the 'new' as most readers are: 'There are the books of the moment and the books of all time,' as a great man once wrote and one of the indicators of Modernity under capitalism- even though it's over- is how it has made us focus through advertising, marketing and a feeling that we should be 'up to date' that has brainwashed most consumers into feeling that the new must be best. I feel you can only judge books in their historical and genre context, so 'new' means little to me. A video on 'the new', Modernism and genre is coming to this channel, which I keep saying so I must film it!

@MFDOOOOM

11 ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal wow, thanks a lot for the detailed response, and yes, whether your new videos topics are on modern SF or not, I shall be watching anyway :)

@outlawbookselleroriginal

11 ай бұрын

@@MFDOOOOM Thanks!

I agree that S&S is the OG Grimdark, but I think it's useful to separate the modern Grimdark as a style from S&S because the stories don't read the same. In a sense I think that Grimdark comes as a result of years of prototypical "good triumphs over evil" stylings. S&S was more primal in ethos, and it's relation to morality reflects this to begin with. Grimdark especially in the 2000's seems to be more of a conscious shift.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

I see what you're saying, but ultimately I disagee- I feel that S&S was lost to High Fantasy in 1977 (watch my video 'The Artificial Fantasy Trilogy Since 1977'.) What some would call amorality is present in pre-1977 S&S: One classic example is Elric of Melnibone's use of Stormbringer to steal souls for a Lord of Chaos and his own demise at the blade itself, showing evil triumphing over good. Nifft The Lean is like this too and so are the denizen's of Vance's Dying Earth. It predates this too with the drawing of characters like Conan, Lieber's duo and others all exhibit amorality- they're often bad guys fighting arguably worse ones. Instead, Grimdark represents a return to the less black and white makeup of High Fantasy in the Tolkien manner, which dominated the 1980s in the work of Feist, Eddings et al and it really seems to 'become a thing' big time when Martin's 'A Game of Thrones' re-established the backstabbing tradition big time. Contemporary Fantasy 'reads differently' to classic S&S as it increasingly tends toward the accessibility of prose spattered with contemporary parlance- especially in dialogue- and it is now an even more overblown and excessively long (even more so than the 1980s explosion) commercial model that has gradually dominated Fantasy publishing since Del Rey's taking Brooks under his wing. It also lacks poetry, style and lacks enough of the archaic. It's treading roads that were excessively well trod decades back and has added little to the subgenre. Even the likes of Steven Erikson are not wholly free of this tendency to interminable sagamaking- his book 'Revolvo' is, however, a prime example of him breaking the mould, though it isn't S&S. The inability of S&S writers for decades to wrest control of the subgenre artistically and produce singletons, defying both publisher and reader expectations, is a great tragedy and this is the cardinal reason why S&S effectively died as a commercial force.

@GrimDORKFantasy

3 ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal S&S and Grimdark especially in the 2000's are very different styles, and the amorality aspect isn't the only defining trait of S&S, but it's a key defining feature of Grimdark (that also has common traits that S&S doesn't always have). There is a lot that differentiates the two. Look at a list of the major Grimdark series (often longer books, trilogies or series as you said). I wouldn't call most of such books S&S. Some of the S&S was definitely a proto-Grimdark regarding that amoral theme, but Sword & Sorcery has a lot of elements that differ it from Grimdark. I wouldn't call either Mark Lawrence or Anna Smith Spark S&S for example. Now and then you'll see Eric of Melnibone mentioned, but this is more as a spiritual precursor. S&S is more focused around the main character, has an old school sort of "kitsch" atmosphere, sometimes a link to comics, images of muscley primal men, scantily clad women. I don't watch the old Sword and Sorcery movies and get the same feel as with Game of Thrones, where a more brutally realistic political intrigue is present. Byron A. Roberts from the band Bal-Sagoth is one of the guys legitimately keeping the old spirit of Sword & Sorcery alive.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

@@GrimDORKFantasy S&S is popular fiction and both the original model and today's variant(S) are written in voices (To a degree) that reflect the modes of speaking and writing that are relative to their times. With the original masters of S&S, they did have more originality on their side, being precursors, though admittedly drawing on the mythic traditions and writings of North European pagan cosmologies. Films, which you mention as an aside are irrelevant to this debate, because of course it''s easy to judge them by surface sheen and improved SFX. The 'kitsch' and 'comic book' atmospheres you refer to are simply your view of them based on age viewpoint and a perspective that takes the baseline assumption that what is happening now is superior and most relevant. With Fantasy, this is strange as it's a genre that relies fundamentally on anachronism- it looks back at an historical time before the Enlightenment, when there was no acceptance of the nascent scientific worldview, but instead a belief in religion, the supernatural and inexplicable- which is why Fantasy is the diametric opposition to SF, which is about the rational, natural and explicable, not the supernatural. Fantasy is, therefore, at its finest when it cleaves to traditional models- but today much FANtasy does this, but merely presents its self in prose which is the parlance, slang and cant of its time. If a reader sticks to the view that 'what is going on now is the best', that reader will inevitably find themself looking back in 20 years and either maintaining that view and abandoning the past, or realising that the 'new' isn't always new and isn't always best. In S&S, that which reflects the anachronistic heart of the subgenre is usually finest, as it is not a subgenre that evolves much in terms of its symbols and tropes-these remain unchanged and are the reasons why readers love it, as it is essentially timeless and ultimately conservative compared to SF. Were readers really as keen on political aspects, say, they would turn to espionage fiction. What Martin did very successfully was take his reading of historical fiction like Graves' 'I Claudius' and apply it to his influence from Zelazny's early amber books. When I revise my book '100 Must Read Fantasy Novels' (Bloomsbury, 2009) I'll let you know...

@GrimDORKFantasy

3 ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I wrote 2 big responses but then made the mistake of pressing the backspace, and so huge swaths of text were deleted both times. So, to keep it shorter. I think you are responding to a few things that I wasn't implying. When I said that S&S is linked to comics I mean that Conan, Red Sonja, Elric, etc. all had comics. The only Grimdark that I know of that has comics and also a book series is A Song of Ice and Fire, and that's because of how major the streaming series was. When I say "kitsch" I just mean that S&S arose as a sort novelty object in a sense, being linked to pulp fiction, not always taking itself seriously. In a sense that it's an entertaining pop culture mutation of the old myths, but without the purpose of the myths being present in the stories. The kitsch aspect is especially true of the movies, which are often low budget and tongue-in-cheek. It's not simply the FX or production value of the movies that differ it from Game of Thrones, it's the stories and how they are told. I think the difference in the S&S movies compared to the Game of Thrones series is analogous to the difference between S&S and Grimdark of today. I wouldn't even want to think of S&S and Grimdark as being the same exact thing, because S&S is cooler, haha. I get that you call it S&S as someone who grew up with that term, but I think from my younger eyes that Grimdark has evolved enough unique differentiating traits to be a separate term. Of course S&S is a precursor and influence, and some Grimdark will blur the lines, but modern S&S is still much like the old S&S, and isn't the same story as Grimdark.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

3 ай бұрын

@@GrimDORKFantasy We'll have to disagree, then. I don't see any massively differentiating qualities in 'Grimdark' that separate it from S&S, but thanks for your responses. Your younger eyes will possibly see differently in time, I suspect, as you read more. As long as you enjoy it, that's the main thing.

I find it hard to believe that you do not include Andre Norton;s Witch World series. Far far better than deCamp's Enchanter series!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Well, that's a matter of opinion- and it is a subjective list, my top ten, as opposed to an attempt to create an objective measure. Of course, I have some of the Witch World books and read them some 35 years ago.

Isn't Game of Thrones more high fantasy than sword and sorcery? 🤔

@outlawbookselleroriginal

5 ай бұрын

If you look at what Clute & Grant say about both of these terms in 'The Encyclopedia of Fantasy' - the last word on the subject- they agree there is very little difference between these two forms. The idea that High Fantasy tends to end in 'world changing' outcomes has long been applied in S&S too, as the double climaxes of Moorcock's Eternal Champion Saga (the last Hawkmoon book and 'The Dragon in the Sword') and the climax of the Elric series in 'Stormbringer' end in 'world changing' paradigm shifts rather like LOTR does in theory. High Fantasy wasn't really applied as a term until Tolkien became seen as the 'norm' in Fantasy publishing, when as I say, he was the outsider. The tropes, symbols and content of S&S and HF are the same- it's the appropriation of the tone of Tolkien in the years since 1977 (watch my video 'The Artificial Fantasy Trilogy SInce 1977') that has really led to the idea of HF as a different thing. I'd argue that Martin's clear debt to classic S&S - its amorality, razor sharpness and ruthlessness- clearly indicate it as S&S. Some people now call this approach 'Grimdark' - but it was the classic tonal means of composing S&S (Germanic blood and thunder) until Tolkien's influence was packaged into other author styles from 77 onward. Also, 'A Song of Ice and Fire' as a book sequence is uncompleted, so we can't fully call judgement. HF is more of the David Eddings/Raymond Feist thing, a lot more Tolkienesque than the authors I cite in this video- but still, the same symbols and stuff.

@wouterl5316

5 ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal interesting. The least you can say is that there are crossovers between the two genres.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

5 ай бұрын

@@wouterl5316 They're not genres- they are at best subgenres. There's not enough distinction between them to be genres. More on this later.

@wouterl5316

5 ай бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal I agree with the subgenre qualification. 🙂

Gardner's book was a satire on postmodernism; among other things.

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Yes, and also very much part of that American Fabulist movement that was a big thing in the 60s/ 70s in the USA - Pynchon, Coover, Barth, Brautigan...read lots back in the 80s...though I think Gardner was the best of them!

@craigbalcom

Жыл бұрын

@@outlawbookselleroriginal He certainy had the best sense of humor. such a shame he died young.

Yes! Less bland Tolkien rip offs more sword and fantasy. Get shit done fantasy!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

You said it. True blood and thunder.

It's telling that the list of the best Fantasy has remained the same for decades: Tolkien, Howard, Vance, Lieber, Moorcock, Le Guin. Later works are rather long winded. Even before George RR Martin's bloated (however well written, because it is) never to be completed epic hit the shelves, Robert Jordan could never seem to end his Wheel of Time, nor could Glen Cook's Black Company ever get back "home." I tired of the genre because of it. Whatever happened to 'brevity is the soul of wit"? I have recently discovered other older fantasy fiction: Lord Dunsany, Clark Ashton Smith. I suspect I like them because they are Lovecraftesque. I also recently picked up Anderson's Broken Sword, too. And the recent Saga Press Elric editions, having got rid of my original copies years ago; silly me. I note that I'm drawn to shorter works. Because they END!

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. My video 'The Artificial Fantasy Trilogy After 1977' explains why.

did you ever meet chris smale from random house (originally pan) rep?

@outlawbookselleroriginal

Жыл бұрын

I know the name, so I probably did- the main rep for my neck of the woods was a guy called Geoff though- and I worked for them for 6 months, great company.