Working for the Police in London for 15 years I can only speak from personal experience of attending traffic accidents. Most of the fatal accidents I attended the helmet would have made no difference. Injuries though... made me stick to full face - but a flip full face. Face planting the road in an open face helmet is not pretty, but rarely fatal. I was also hit in the face by a bold dropped from a car I was following up the motorway - over the top of screen and struck me in the chin - I almost lost the bike, but it bounced off leaving quite a gouge. Just glad it wasn't in the teeth. Will be sticking to my flip face helmet.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience.

@Eisenhammer78

16 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing. Its always interesting to hear from first-responders what they have to say, instead of just the opinion of experienced riders, who thankfully have no expierience in crashing.

A combination with driving responsibly and using an open helmet is much better than driving irresponsibly and with a full helmet

I have all 3 styles of helmets. A modular, an open face with a visor that can be lifted so it's an open face and a 1/2 helmet. I originally purchased the full face modular helmet. What I have found is that it heavier than the other two and I have I have a blind spot while checking the other lane to switch lanes while wearing it. I only wear the 1/2 helmet when it's hot and i'm only going a short distance. I like the open face the best and if the weater turns wet or it's extremely windy out, I can put down the visor. In the case of an accident, it won't fully protect my face but it's lighter than the full face modular helmet and more importantly, I have better visibility in the open face helmet.

Having used all three of the helmets you mentioned I like you my choice is open face in summer and full face in winter and on long journeys in the uk and Europe. As for the half helmet had one in Canada and brought it home would only use it now on my pushbike. Have always gone for the best fitting one I could afford. I was given a good piece of advice. When I bought my first helmet the chap said to me. Son if you got a ten Bob head get a ten Bob hat. Thanks again Proffessori.

I have to admire anyone prepared to read volumes of academic studies. I take my hat off, or helmet 🤣 I am old enough to remember riding without a helmet but I did have the invulnerability of youth. I have tended to wear full face helmets, always believed they were safer, also many years ago a friend suffered horrible facial injuries in an accident wearing an open face helmet. On the tours I've done in America I've taken an open face helmet an enjoyed the feeling of the elements but did have in the back of my mind how safe it was. I'll be watching your updates with great interest.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comments John. I was surprised at the lack of mention of facial injuries in the studies (only a couple). It left me wondering whether the reality of accidents is that very few actually result in facial injuries. Maybe human instinct or just the dynamics of accidents means that the face usually get protected, and it is the back or side of the head that usually receives an impact or abrasion. Just my speculation.

Thank you for give some serious investigated research into this often debated subject. Use both full faze and open (pilot) helmet. Full faze for cold / rainy weather and open for nice weather. Depending on the accident I truly think it is difficult to claim that with one type of helmet = you will survive - and using another, well you won't. Riding ready and alert to any situation and of course get the protection you can get (without getting overboard in £££ - and think that your costly equipment is going to save you from reckless driving). Ride safe and live longer - don't take chances and high risks, since you will pay with your body in impact.

Great/interesting content. I wear a full face Arai about 80 percent of the time here in Wisconsin. Mostly for weather protection. I have to chuckle at you comment about it being winter in the UK as your passing beautiful lush green scenery! We’re looking at absolute brown and black every where. No spring here yet. 20 degrees F this morning. I have a Davida 3/4 for hot weather riding. Which is maybe 2 weeks a year. Cheers my friend.

Very well done video. Thanks

This was a great help. Thanks

Interesting content, I have both a full helmet w/ built in visor and a half bump helmet (not DOT approved). I was favouring my half but recently a friend was involved in a motorcycle crash and was spared head trauma because of his DOT approved half helmet. I'm a believer. Side bar ,I live in NY w/mandatory h/ laws but would wear one regardless.

I believe you covered the subject well, I don't care for the full buckets ,and so carry a snap on shield should it turn wet . 3/4 is my go to helmet.

I use both, open face in the summer and full face in winter. The heat of a summer tour in Spain makes a full face a much more comfortable experience however finding decent goggles is difficult and I also need to keep nose and face covered against the sun so it is a bit of a faff. The academic stats as are most stats, open to interpretation, is there a distinction made between a facial injury and a 'head injury' ? It appears to me that both types of helmet have their advantages/ disadvantages but at the end of the day it seems to come down to which grievious injury do you prefer neck or face ? I can't answer that.

Just bought a caburg jet open face after years of full face. Went for a ride and immediately noticed how much more Vision I had, Then went back to back with the full face the difference is massive. For backroad and green lanes the open face with visor will do for me..

@CarstenBitzhenner

Ай бұрын

Found out that many of the closed helmets by Bell allow a vision close to that offered by a jet helmet. Would always go for a flip-up.

It would be interesting to find out whether open face or full face have more accidents. How much would be due to increased visibility and general awareness of open face or do open face riders behave more carefully because they feel more vulnerable. I wear an open face at the moment as I felt too claustrophobic and got too hot in a full face. I am a new rider and don't go very fast at present.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

Жыл бұрын

That's a good question, but I think it is something that would be very difficult to measure and assess

In two accidents with head/road contact with fullface helmets,- I was able to see considerable marks afterwards, or rather damage, in the chin area after landing. i don't want to imagine how my jaw would function otherwise. A friend with a half-shell helmet had a less pleasant operation and time after he had to leave the bike involuntarily. I like to hear and read statistics and would rather ride open face, but I can't deny my experience, logic and personal statistics. In MTB downhill my experience is the same. Maybe there is something to it.

25+ years the police in mid Wales - and for much of the year I wear open face. Better situational awareness, easier access for CPR, less risk to the medulla oblongata. In winter cold, rain, snow means that for better control i often go full face - flip front if i can.

Interesting….thanks and please do a follow up

Riding in my youth I used open face with a shield. Now I wear a Shoei Neotec 2 modular helmet. Although it is a little heavier than a half helmet, I have always thought it would be safer. Just returned from a ride from Las Vegas to Los Angeles (in May) and did not have problem with the heat, with the top flow through vent open. Thinking about getting half helmet for when it is hotter out and not riding freeway?!

When I was 16 I rode my 650 BSA , - no helmet when warm, open face and goggles to keep warm in the cold - , when it rained you just got wet ! 😀 , - maintained roads, slower cars and not so many . People generally more courteous, I’m thinking of getting back into biking, tried a full face but hated the claustrophobic feeling.

Having worn both open and full face helmets in my opinion the open face has been better for visibility and external noise. The other factor is speed as you can judge your speed versus weather conditions more effectively in the open face, your findings are correct and the research is good but not as you say all encompassing. Very good and informative video thank you.

is that the heartside road in cumbria? beautiful riding road.

Interesting. I ride in an open face helmet in good weather on day rides. But all other times wear my modular flip up Shark helmet in the open position. I only wear chin bar down during rain, 🇦🇺 bugs or speed over 90km/hr. I get better peripheral vision when open. Always wear eye protection & ear plugs due to wind noise hearing damage.

From experience from many incidents (mostly riding dirt bikes) the only helmet I will wear is full face. Looking at my helmets after the incidents, all my impacts with the ground were to the side and slightly front of the helmets. So, the chin bar saved me trauma to my face and for me that is worth the disadvantages.

@nickvandernet

8 ай бұрын

For sure, but I doubt he's recommending open face for dirt bikes. More like cruisers, Harley's, etc

@gysiguy

3 ай бұрын

​@@nickvandernet What's worse, smashing your face into pavement or dirt?

@antondubkov

2 ай бұрын

@@gysiguy chin piece on the full face (especially dirt) helmets protrudes way more than your chin, so if your helmet's chin bar hits the ground/pavement - it doesn't mean (like, it has completely zero relevance) that your chin would have (meaning, it probably wouldn't). Also the protruding chin bar is a "lever" that can cause severe neck/spine injuries, that otherwise could have been completely avoidable by not having that protruding chin bar

I do like wearing my Davida open face but only normally wear it on short in town journeys or if the weather is very hot. Most of the time I will put on either my Schuberth or Bell full face. I always took it as read that they were better protection. I sort of felt that I was being a bit dangerous with the Davida. Well I never!

Do these studies all differentiate between HEAD Injury and FACIAL injury? Clinically these are classified and annotated differently (UK)

@SongsFromTheSaddle

2 жыл бұрын

No they don't. Some are quite vague

Very interesting. I shall use open face in the summer i think.

Interesting. I think one important factor is some people, myself included, prefer open face as there is no chin piece that can sometimes prevent the range of movement, depending on the bike and riding position etc, that an open face allows. The open face can therefore be safer in terms of better observation, but if you do go down and face plant the road, an open face may be more painful! However, my natural reaction has always been to reach down with my hand, which generally breaks the fall (but not the pain), and it is then the back of the helmet that comes into play. This makes sense to me, but apologies if it’s clear as mud to others!

@jridenour31

9 ай бұрын

What movement is it preventing?

@nigeltoulson6556

9 ай бұрын

My head!!!!!!!! I’m in my 60’s and don’t have the range of movement I used to. Having the chin piece catches my jackets- without it I can look properly over my shoulder. It’d be funny if it helped my feet wouldn’t it?!?!?

Thank you! Well done, subscribed and hope for a follow up.

I rather wear an "Open face" helmet. I bought a very high quality one. I am almost 70 years old. I started riding again 6 months ago after no riding for over 40 years. My eyes are not much good these days and I find that the open face helmet gives me a much safer field of vision. For me, being able to see as well as I can is the most important consideration.

@pipersall6761

Ай бұрын

I have an almost identical bio, almost 70 and just bought a bike again after 29 years from my last one. I guess I am mixed in feelings. I think a full face is better but then seeing everything around you well is so important. Its all a level of risk I suppose and just depends. Saving your head but becoming paralyzed because the heavier full face put extra strain on the neck isnt good either. Hard to decide.

Interesting topic! Looking at your landscape, I have the strong impression that the UK should invest more effort in reforestation programmes.

Nice video. Which road were you riding, it looks great

@SongsFromTheSaddle

Жыл бұрын

Between Hexham in Northumberland and Alston in Cumbria. Some great roads.

Good to hear about the research, I tend to wear an open face helmet, I find it offers better visibility and with a visor as opposed to goggles works pretty well in wet weather. I do have a full face helmet but in comparison to helmets of yesteryear I find it restrictive and less comfortable to wear. You have to look down to see the speedo etc So on balance the greater connection to incoming sense data from an open face helmet counteracts the arguments for wearing a full face. It surprises me to some extent that there isn't (to the best of my knowledge) an open face helmet with a more basic chin guard as a half way house between full face and open face.

@gmy33

Жыл бұрын

yes there was .. I forgot which company .. but the open helmet had 1 bar infront of your chin ...

I wear full face no matter what,I understand both full face and open face would protect well but I always get insects on my rides some are pretty big and my visor always needs a clean after a ride

I prefer a full face for fast speed canyon or inclement weather riding but an open face feels safer for commuting in good weather due to better visibility.

I have been been looking at the Airbag vests which seem to give very good support for the neck, and so after watching this I'm thinking that: 1 - full face or open face... pick your weapon; OR, 2 - full face AND airbag vest.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

6 ай бұрын

It is all a matter of risk appetite rather than right or wrong. Some people are more risk averse than others and will lean towards higher levels of protection such as full-face helmet, body armour and an air vest. Others will value the "freedom" of motorcycling and prefer minimum protection. I think I sit somewhere in the middle, but respect the choices of other riders and above all, I value the freedom to choose, rather than being told what to wear through government legislation. However, the point of my video is that free choice should be informed choice.

@Raven.flight

6 ай бұрын

@@SongsFromTheSaddle yeah, I wasn’t meaning to suggest my two choices were what everyone’s conclusion should be. It’s the conclusion that I got for me.

*Open face on cruiser and naked bikes. Full face for cafe racers and sports bikes - because I am leaning forward.* Full face if I leave home during a rain storm. But I use bubble shields on open face so if I get caught in the rain it's alright. I had a half helmet but it looked ridiculous so I sold it.

I have a Shoei J-Cruise that doesn't really fit any of your three categories. It is open-faced, but has a sturdy shield and the sides wrap around the sides more than with most open-faced. I learned as a child to roll upon impact with the ground and keep arms in--tuck-in. This was while downhill skiing, bicycling, etc..

@SongsFromTheSaddle

6 ай бұрын

The categories are not "mine", but those of the researchers.

I once saw a motorcyclist with his whole jaw ripped down to his chest. RIP. He probably skid and hit his face first on the road divider. There was a study I saw back then that shown 20+ % of accident on the helmet is on the jaw. For long or high speed ride, I still prefer full face helmet. But most days I’ll just wear my open face helmet.

I’d prefer a full face helmet. I can’t find one big enough. I tried a Shoei Neotec XXL, AVG long oval XXL and HJC 6XL they were all too small. I tried a Super Seer XL 1/2 helmet it was too big! I tried a Kirsh XL it fit great but the strap was too short. I returned all of these helmets. Kirsh recently lengthened their straps. I have one of theirs now and a Super Seer Large that both fit well I started at my local Harley dealership nothing they had came close to fitting.

I have always had people tell me that open face helmets are dangerous and they always refer to the same statistics and information such as the face and chin area has a 36% chance of being the main impact point. I may think about this in the wrong way but that leaves a 64% chance of the impact being in a completely different area ? Also, when you look at other helmet users they can be the polar opposite in their thinking. Downhill skiers for example. They travel at high speed facing forwards and upright. They have in my opinion have a similar in some respects crash sequence (obviously no traffic but high speed impacts / falling / hard obstacles like rocks, trees, people and falling off mountains) and they will not use full face helmets because of the risks of neck injury. I would also say (based on some time with the ambulance service - again only my thoughts) it can be pretty rough trying to get access to someone's face and head after an accident if they need oxygen or suction, there is a risk of even more damage to the neck. My last thought is that if you look at the hierarchy of controls in risk mitigation PPE is the last resort. Our helmets are a last resort and we should be looking at a lot more than just the helmet. A full face helmet could also give a false sense of security and inspire more risk. Just because it has a great test score in a lab doesn't mean that it will save your life. There are a whole lot of other factors which will kill you in an accident. For myself, I find a full face helmet (which I am using through winter) limits my vision and hearing significantly. Good video which looks at the bigger picture !

@SongsFromTheSaddle

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comments Dave. It's an interesting topic, which I why I did the research and made the video.

Helmets are a veritable minefield of controversy and conflicting data. Commonsense tells me any helmet is better than no helmet, so on my Cruiser or dirt bikes it’s an open face helmet. Sportbikes, definitely a full face helmet, usually one of my Arais, not only for safety but for comfort. They are well vented and aerodynamic which make for a better visceral experience especially when riding faster than the posted speed limits! 😎 On a GS I wear an adventure type helmet, fullface helmet with a peak, probably just more fashionable than a full face helmet without a peak, I guess! I remember the Hurt Report in the ‘70’s that went into great detail regarding helmet performance in accidents which raised as many questions as answers. An later article in either Motorcyclist or Cycle World magazine in the USA, found some cheap Korean and Chinese/Taiwanese helmets outperformed expensive Japanese, American and European helmets so the jury is out on that. As for personal freedom, I choose to wear a helmet and if someone else chooses not to, each to his own. Two other things I always wear with any helmet, acrylic lens UV sunglasses for eye protection and industrial grade earplugs...muchas importantos! Interesting video, thank you and ride safe! 👍🏍🇿🇦☀️🍺

I had a buddy who had a stone kicked up and hit him right in the visor. He was able to go on just like normal. Had he not been wearing a full face helmet, the stone would have caught him right under the eye socket and very well could have blinded him or caused him to wreck.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

4 ай бұрын

I think the issue there is using a visor. You can get a stone in the face with a full face helmet if you ride with the visor up. Equally, a good visor on an open face helmet will protect from bugs and stones etc.

I sometimes without a helmet, if just dinking around. I know its not safe. I just look so damn cool.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

Жыл бұрын

I'm a great believer in freedom of choice.

Feel safer in my Davida. I can see so much more and it's quieter than my full face. I know if I was unlucky I could get a bash in the nose though 😥

I wear a full face one after getting a stone kicked up from a car in front on the motorway and getting a smashed tooth. Luckily didn't go down

@SongsFromTheSaddle

10 ай бұрын

😒

They should not be mandatory but if you don't wear your insurance shouldn't have to pay out same as seat belts

Be careful, t's very easy to argue yourself into a car.

I don’t know if you have been in a bad motorcycle accident but I have . In 1979 I had a head on crash with a car that came round a bend on my side of the road with no lights on at night. Now protections were not so good back then but I had a full face helmet on , a leather suit tall boots and the best gloves I could afford. I was riding a Kawasaki Z1000st at the time and was told by police and doctors that two things saved me . First I was on a big strong bike which took the force of impact better than a say a 250 and secondly the full face helmet. I was told that a smaller bike or open face helmet I would no have survived, so there you go point proven.👍🏍

@SongsFromTheSaddle

11 ай бұрын

Undoubtedly in some accidents wearing a full face helmet will save you from serious injury or death. But the research evidence suggests that the majority of accidents do not involve a face impact. The research I looked at suggested that in some cases the additional weight of the full face helmet can cause neck injury. Full face helmets can also reduce visibility. So there are safety arguments either way. You can always come up with individual situations, such as your own, in which a full face helmet provided the rider with better protection. But equally you can find individual cases where wearing an open face helmet saved the rider. The good thing about doing a meta analysis of many studies is you see the bigger picture. I am not arguing either way. I'm simply interested in the evidence.

@BenandEthan

11 ай бұрын

As one, a police officer has no tangible way if knowing what effect the full face helmet had. I'd also suggest neither the do the doctors at the A&E.

@markjoseph2423

10 ай бұрын

​@@SongsFromTheSaddleag ree on this one.

Covid vaccinations have not been compulsory in the UK.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

5 ай бұрын

But they have been in other places

How do people live in these countries where they are told what to do to the T? No firearms for protection, must wear a helmet… etc. I could not deal with that.

@gregorygilbert9726

Жыл бұрын

In the US, if people are going to forgo wearing helmets, they should be required to sign a waiver from accepting any public or charitable health care. I would rather not have to support a lifelong basket case with my taxes.

@blacksquirrel4008

Жыл бұрын

They live quite well, and longer and with less day-to-day danger than we do.

@varmastiko2908

Жыл бұрын

It's quite difficult to leave the country you were born in and make a life for yourself somewhere else from scratch. Some people still do it, but in most cases it requires wealth to do. The lucky ones are those who are born into more freedom. But sadly there is nowhere true freedom for human beings on this earth; we are all prisoners to some extent.

@MadKingJorge

Жыл бұрын

@@varmastiko2908 I prefer the title slave to prisoner.

@astronautis1674

Жыл бұрын

They have public healthcare, which pays for treatment should you crash, therefore you need to take care of yourself. Also they never run into idiot civilians carrying firearms in public.. Feels safer overall, it's pretty easy.

I do love your videos. . . I think you are quite intelligent, but i have to say, I think this is insipid. The more coverage you have, the more coverage you have. I don't care how much research you have read. If I fall off a motorcycle going 70 mph or better, in shorts and a t-shirt, i am probably dead. If I am wearing a full face helmet i have a small chance of surviving. If I am wearing helmet, full leathers and an airbag vest, i have slightly better chance of surviving. If i behave responsibly, my chances improve. It is as simple as that. You are respected and influential. Act like it.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

5 ай бұрын

Hi Charles. Many thanks for your feedback. A serious comment like this merits a serious response. I will therefore respond in some detail. You appear to be conflating common sense based opinion about helmet protection with statistically based fact. The reason I made this video is that, like you, I thought it obvious that it is safer to wear a full face helmet. In my case this opinion was based not just on common sense but also personal experience. I once did come off my motorcycle and landed on my face. Had I not been wearing a full face helmet I would undoubtedly have been seriously injured. However, when I read the research which, across many studies, provides evidence from thousands of accidents, I was surprised at what I found. It seems that in the majority of accidents the nature of head trauma is such that you are adequately protected by an open face helmet. This is not a denial that full face helmets offer better protection, but rather a suggestion that, statistically, you are unlikely to need that extra protection. Of course, we can all think up scenarios in which only a full face helmet would save you, and, as from my personal example above, such accidents certainly do happen. However, analysis of thousands of accidents suggests that such situations are rare and that in most cases you will be protected from serious injury by wearing an open helmet. To extend the argument, we could also think up many scenarios in which no type of helmet would be adequate to save you from serious injury. Furthermore, in the research I reported, there was evidence of situations in which wearing a full face helmet resulted in greater trauma than wearing an open face helmet, due to the additional weight or a lateral twisting of the chin bar causing neck injury. I was not advocating either style of helmet in the video, but rather trying to report on what I found to be intriguing and perhaps counter intuitive findings. Furthermore, as you will see from the other comments to this video, helmet choice is not just down to impact protection, but is also governed by other factors such as comfort, convenience, potential visual and/or auditory impairment, and of course, personal freedom and personal choice. It is a reality that when you ride a motorcycle, you put yourself at risk. From your comments about wearing full leathers and an airbag vest, I would suggest that you are at the more risk averse end of the rider spectrum. But you have to accept that not all other riders think like this, and frankly it is arrogant to suggest that anyone who does not think like you is 'wrong' and 'irresponsible'. Some people enjoy the risk. I made a separate video a while back about risk aversion and riding motorcycles. At its core, motorcycling is about personal freedom. It is therefore totally against the spirit of motorcycling to try an restrict this freedom, be it through legislation or moralising peer-pressure. In this and similar videos I have made I am simply trying to help riders make better informed decisions regarding their free choices. If that message did not come across clearly in the video, then the fault is mine.

Some of you are insane. If you don't want to wear a full face helmet, that's your business but all of these excuses to not wear one are stupid. You lose a tiny bit of peripheral vision, you can hear just fine, and there's plenty of ventilation. You're not going to have a neck injury with a full face helmet that you wouldn't also have with a full face helmet. The weight difference is a whopping one pound.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

9 ай бұрын

I'm not advocating either way. Simply reviewing the research. however, I do believe in personal choice. By making this video I am trying to help people make a better informed choice.

@pipersall6761

Ай бұрын

Good point. Still trying to decide between full or modular or now since this video, open face. Back in my youth I had an open face but never wrecked in such a way to test if that was good protection or not. Now that I am officially an old guy Im thinking full face but then visibility is really important too, so hmmm.

Your talking rubbish of course a helmet can’t protect the neck it’s NOT ON the neck it’s there to protect your head, of course now you can buy air jackets which help to protect the neck and other areas. Most smaller accidents tend to hurt the legs and arms so yes speed plays a part , but if your trying to make a case for open face helmets then your loosing the plot. Yes it’s up to you what helmet and other gear you wear , in other words you buy a cheap helmet made of plastic injection don’t expect to survive an accident, the same for open face , a good open face will give good protection for the head but your likely to have serious facial injuries. So my choice is a top quality helmet , protective armer and an air vest and at least you’ve done your best to protect yourself and of course your still likely to have bad leg injuries as they haven’t invented something that works for you legs.

@SongsFromTheSaddle

11 ай бұрын

I'm not making a case for or against anything. I'm simply reporting on the findings of many research studies.

@BenandEthan

11 ай бұрын

I don't take advice from people that have a poor grasp or spelling and grammar.

@stephenstewart4295

6 ай бұрын

​@@BenandEthan"or" 🤔

I wanted to watch a video on helmet safety not listen to your preaching