RACING MARATHON IS BACK in 2024 Daily Streams for the next 3 Weeks at least LET'S GO! www.twitch.tv/kuruhs

@alstar8520

Ай бұрын

POGGERS

@AkiRalcolf

Ай бұрын

I'm so ready for it dude

i feel like old nfs really have better handling, than tap to drift

@OG_AsianGod

Ай бұрын

Oh absolutely, they could just use the engine for mw05 and modernize the graphics. Really all it would need tbh

@-aku2805

Ай бұрын

​@@OG_AsianGodAn old engine like that wouldn't work for a modern game

@lagartopunkarra

Ай бұрын

Not only that, but the Criterion games that had brake to drift as a mechanic had a really good handling, like you can't deny that Burnout Paradise didn't had a good arcade handling. The problem with the handling came from NFS 2015, as Ghosts tried to integrate both old school handling and brake to drift handling in the same game without changing the car physics for each, so you had an unpredictable handling in both grip and drift. Now in NFS Unbound is better, but still, no match against those 2000s and early 2010s games.

@KazeJay777

Ай бұрын

⁠​⁠​⁠@@OG_AsianGodwhat a way to put it, Im sure Ive had a similar thought. Its like the devs dont realise that having the cars have weight and a more involved feel brings more depth and immersion to a game than good graphics ever could.

@Synical16

Ай бұрын

you feel correctly

imagine nfs undercover with this handling model

@TinsaeBereded-qb3bd

Ай бұрын

that would be so good, undercovers handling model felt way too arcady and the camera didnt help either

@waybe-gg1nb

Ай бұрын

one of the overhaul mods already did it

@ParodyDream

Ай бұрын

​@@waybe-gg1nbbut not like this, this is feeling mw when you play

@BevaliValiBoss

Ай бұрын

The thing is they already tried yet its impossible to change how physics and handling work in that game because that ruins the handling too, kuru even said this in some older undercover video, basically there is no way they can change the handling since they dont have an option to do so in vlted or any other program used for this stuff you have like some handling tweaks but its no way near as effective as nfs mw or carbon, so with no acces to whatever the devs used its almost impossible :[[[

@Kacpa2

Ай бұрын

@@TinsaeBereded-qb3bd It wasnt about arcadiness, it was just stiff and stilted and incredibly unnatural. PS2 version fixed that entirely as it has modified Carbon handling, but is actualy far more fun than Caron itself.

Just a heads up, I’ve seen a few comments mentioning how Most Wanted’s handling wouldn’t really fit in a more simcade game like Prostreet. Don’t worry the physics still feel really familiar, the main difference is the steering responsiveness. Cars turn into corners much faster and don’t have that abrupt auto centering the moment you slightly let go of the right stick. Basically that really jerky and unresponsive feeling is gone. Other than that it mostly feels like the original handling model with slightly more oversteer.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

Spot on! That's what the goal was for the handling revamp. I may even say the "Most Wanted Handling" is misleading, but that's another story

@user-gk6gf1lq9x

Ай бұрын

That description sure makes me want to play the game again. I always disliked the stiffness of handling in PS. Had to spend quite a lot of time on tuning or used very specific cars that I felt comfortable with. Maybe with this mod I'll have some new favourites.

@cavalierliberty6838

23 күн бұрын

​@@user-gk6gf1lq9x I'm gonna be honest, I still have yet to figure out how to tune a car to handle decently on grip events to handle without losing a lot of speed. Speaking of speed, I'm sure suspension tuning on that is impossible.

@user-gk6gf1lq9x

22 күн бұрын

@@cavalierliberty6838 I think when it comes to Pro Street, "placement" of turns and respect of the track comes first, car choice second and tuning last. It matters more when you turn and how, than what tool you use to do it. I say that because from my experience most cars are too sluggish in turns, even with best parts and tuning involved. There are a few meta cars that basically allow you to drive as you please, at whatever speeds, other cars are offer nimbleness of a rotten log. I basically had to handbrake into every turn on some vehicles. For me tuning turned into a game of tip-toeing between cars turning too quickly to go through wide tracks without loss of speed and same cars not turning at all. As for Speed tuning, I would basically grab the fastest car I can and "soften" the suspension. Basically I'd reduce responsiveness and increase stability. It helped with situations where I'd have to bounce from side to side to stabilise. Still, during some tracks I had to use nitrous to achieve stability without losing speed. Still, I'm no expert, I basically just hope that I understand tooltips for tuning correctly and that they're written correctly lmao

@p0werfu11

20 күн бұрын

It would be good if it's just a misleading name. There's nothing particularly good in Most Wanted's handling.

idk about prostreet having the mw model, black box wanted to capture the feeling of a carbon-fiber rocket-on-wheels shredding a highway at 400+ khp while being held to the road by nothing but aerodynamics, awareness and prayers, and anything that changes it to be more “stable”, while understandable, kinda misses the point.

@AnotherFoxBoy

Ай бұрын

Yeah same. Vanilla handling requires a bit of skill and knowing how to tune your car.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

I'm the "mod maker". I've tweaked the handling so that it primarily RESPONDS quicker, like in MW05. That's the biggest change to the game's feel. The cars having more handling dynamics (over/understeer) is comparatively minor. You still definitely need a light touch and good car/upgrades to handle the beefed up speed challenges and AI.

@AnotherFoxBoy

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. Imma try out the mod in my second run.

@razor_ramon_

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit, the one thing that hasn't changed is that in drag race if you're a couple seconds quicker than your opponents, they don't give 100% effort. Just cruise to the finish line.

@---pp7tq

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit Bro, the link is dead. Please write to Kuru with a new link so he can update the description. It cannot be downloaded when download is clicked. But proabbly you can workaround it by adding to your account and then make a copy of it and download. The download limit was reached. edit. OK. It fixed itself after 15 minutes, but adding another mirror won't harm.

Thank you very much for the link to the game! Couple of days ago I beat carbon for the first time and now it is time for the Pro Street!

Game feels weird without the intense camera shake.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

Far camera has the shake, don't worry

Just wanted to play ProStreet Pepega again yesterday. Nice mod but I instantly got reminded why ProStreets handling seems to have a mind of its own. On a keyboard the steering enters a corner slowly but if you let of the left/ right key midcorner it instantly snapps back to center fast and its hard to drive a corner right. It doesnt feel natural to have different response times/ lag when cornering. Also I never really got warm with the drift handling, sometimes the cars just does what it wants :)

@roducliaharenvol8302

Ай бұрын

The car drives on rails basically, compared to Carbon or U2

8:55 Its always shocking how barren Willow Springs looks in real life or other racing games like GT6 :) They nailed the vibe in this game with the visuals and music :)

If only this can be combined with Pepega Edition...

@glurak888

Ай бұрын

Exactly. 😊😮

RACING MARATHON IS BACK???? Let's goo!!

You know what I really really wish for? NFS 2015 with Underground 1 handling. Underground 1 rewarded good racing lines, and honestly Ventura Bay is stunning. I really like NFS 2015 all of a sudden, but RWD cars are so understeery

@recarsion

Ай бұрын

Underground 1 handling is peak imo, it feels so light and responsive and just a joy to drive with most cars, too bad about the shitty crash physics and I also didn't like drift in that game

@Jules-69lol

Ай бұрын

@@recarsion Underground handling paired with Carbon drift is a perfect combo. Most Wanted's is balanced for speedbreaker and that's not possible in a multiplayer game

@bigsmoke5814

Ай бұрын

lower the suspension of the fron i guesa.

the handling was definitely a point in pro street, but 4wd cars were so much fun

That Porshe at the end handles like the Trackmania nations formula

"thank you for watchnig" at the end 😂

Yo Kuru wheres the link to the merch

Need this same concept applied to undercover

6:52 that golf sounds like familiar (who remember to get the civic? ).

4:50 "you might as well drive an LMP car" me: hmm I wonder 🤔

In my opinion, i liked the prostreet handling. It leaned more towards simulation side of simcade. Just that the input delay (idk that might just be my problem) really got annoying later on in speed events.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

I'm the modder. This handling mod primarily tackles exactly the input delay and weird auto-centering.

Pro Street with MW handling mod!? now this makes me want to play this version of Pro Street! @9:48 *Kuru laugh* @9:59 *Kuru totaled*

The one thing that hasn't changed is that in drag race if you're a couple seconds quicker than your opponents, they don't give 100% effort.

Is the sensitivity linear with no deazone, or is it unusable with wheels like every other black box NFS?

0:15 soooo does that mean you don’t have to wait 2 whole seconds to upshift now? i remember skipping a gear to use nitrous in this game. wasted a quarter of the nos in between shifts

Does it still have that weird interaction at low speeds? Sorry if I didn't watch the video before asking.

So nice of the modder to just throw his whole game version on a google drive, ready to go no fuss with modding myself. Does he have a good running moded Skyrim aswell? :)

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

I'm the modder. My only other mod is a GTA 4 handling mod.

@eddieru

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruitgreat work man. those updated shift times are awesome. i remember it would take 5second to go from 0-100mph but half of that time was spent shifting

@MrRetroIsland

26 күн бұрын

​@@ATomatoIsAFruit ive been waiting your mods for a long time, thank you so much

@killpop969

Күн бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit hey just out of curiosity, dont you have just the mod files so i can put them into my custom nfs ps game? just to avoid installing everything from scratch jk, appreciate it :)

the steering linearity was changed, there's a sharp increase mid way through pushing the stick. makes speed driving impossible

Hey KURU, i have a little question how how do you solve the problem of the continue button in carrer mod, especially for drag and drift event because i cannot find a solution Thanks in advance

15:57 Eyy, yoooo... Someone donated my track... 😂😂😂

the game in the description already has this mod applied or is the vanilla game?

@RodniUA

Ай бұрын

Yes, it does. I have two versions of ProStreet: the one from the description and the standard one, and the one from the description definitely has different controls

"can we have NFS with legal street racing?" EA: we have that at home The NFS at home: Forza Horizon 1

Damn, people must have really wanted this handling to be the most wanted 😜

10:22 I actually tried this, with modifications to the 240SX, you can make it all the way to the Texas World Speedway event leading up to Krieger, but that oval track as far as I'm aware is unbeatable with it, you just don't have the top speed, though I presume you mean Ryan's 240 in the form it's given to us in

How to disable the headlights? It looks bizzare with those silly lights from Carbon. Its day time and it looks extra stupid on 240sx with popups down

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

I'm the modder. I installed some script to enable headlight flares, and in the meantime the mod was taken down. Haven't found where the flares are in Vlt-ed, nor did I really feel like removing them, even if they're wonky on half the cars.

@sirayberindo03

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit hey hi man, thank you guys for giving us such a bad ass mod for this amazing game, said that, I need your help. I installed the modded game files from kuru description, the game runs and the mod is working properly on my potato, but I have a little problem, when I start the game, the resokution of it is very very low, but not the gaphics it self, literally the entire game screen is very mini, and I ddon0t know how to make it full widescreen, I tried to change the resolution in the options but the only one who fits the entire screen is something like 3600 x 1300 or smth like that, but it goes with 5 fps... :''/ ( with the vanilla game, this problem wasn't a thing ) p.s. sorry for my bad english.

Speaking of the ai trying to kill you, a mazda break checked me and i went right into his rear end and totalled my car and had to restart the race

I would be surprised if it made actually Nate Denver's GTO a bit more challenging w the handling

Finally!!!!

the link to the full game contain the MW Handling mod from this video?

@MobDKGr

Ай бұрын

Yes.

@Leonardo_groeneveld

Ай бұрын

@@MobDKGr thank you for the confirmation You’re a king fam 💪🏼

@MobDKGr

Ай бұрын

@@Leonardo_groeneveld Glad to inform 😁👍

My favourite NFS!!!!!!

I love how the final boss does everything with one car. Drift with AWD car ? We'll why can't I do it ? 🤣

@untamedhacker

Ай бұрын

Wheelies in an EVO? sure! why not!

Thanks for the dude who Made the mod, Tomato He's also doing some 3D animation

Can't download from the link in the description. Any solutions?

@akimbo3479

Ай бұрын

me too maybe someone can upload the link on another host....

@zaneboyondatrack

Ай бұрын

@@akimbo3479 Yea im still waiting maybe i can get the chance to download.

whenever I try to play ProStreet my game is always stuck on 30 fps, even with generic fix installed, anyone know how to fix it? (i tried downloading it from the link in the description and still stuck on 30 fps)

10:25 I have indeed beaten the entire game start to finish all events dominated 100% with just the starter Nissan 240SX... well, 4 of them, one for each event type, so yes, it's pretty doable

I seen the Gto and I clicked on the video 😊

Its the same handling as in pepega edition? It looks like

Can you run this mod on Lutris? (Linux)

Unpopular opinion but look like i prefer the prostreet style of understeering It's kinda weird but 6 years stuck it with it kinda make me love the understeery a bit more now lmao

He is reading the new features like the first time BUT... He posted the article 😅💀

Carbon had the most natural drifting physics, rest were heavy and weird, the worst by far is underground 1, as a circuit drive fan, i personally love more Underground 1 adn 2 with traffic

I wish you could use pepega mod and combine this handling model into that, would be neat

is this mod out yet?

Drinking game of the day is "natural"

"Oversteer is now a thing." Uh oh. That means specific cars like Elise would be even more fucked by the absurd oversteer, which the initial versions of this mod introduced to those cars, unless they hand-tuned them to not oversteer so much.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

I'm the modder. Yeah, I struggled for a while with mid and rear-engine cars. What didn't help matters is another script that changed car weight distribution to be closer to reality. A lot of fudging of handling data went in to make sure the cars don't instantly kill you if you corner at high speeds, but they're still tricky to drive.

I’m downloading this mod

mm classic outro

So Golf now fastest Car now ?

I play with a Wii remote. Ahkskajdhas

Nfs rivals and Mw12 have good handling but later EA just making nfs based nfs15 not look the same but its there

The google drive link dosent work as i says to many users

@badunicorn1384

Ай бұрын

same ig theres no fix to it yet?

How do you get the mod?

@MobDKGr

Ай бұрын

Link in the description. It's a full game.

How do you install this file into the game?

@RodniUA

Ай бұрын

They are already installed, you just need to download the archive from the description

@jacoriediggs5638

Ай бұрын

@@RodniUA No what I meant was do you just toss the file into the game folder or do you have to put it somewhere more specific?

@RodniUA

Ай бұрын

@@jacoriediggs5638 just unpack all files to any empty folder and you good to go

First race is almost impossible to beat in this mod. It took me one hour and I think 20 try’s. This peace of garbage someone call car (240sx) is very underpowered. Maybe I just low skill🤣🤣🤣, but I don’t know…. It was really hard😅.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

Haha, I might have to tweak down the first race difficulty. I could consistently finish it, but you do need to be precise and clean.

nah man

Can you keep the OG camera in this mod? Don't like the new one at all ...

@SunnyWave174

Ай бұрын

It's so much better than the old one during high speed, believe me.

@JeyVGaming

Ай бұрын

​@@SunnyWave174...But I also love the OG intense camera shake. I hope the modder can give us an option to toggle it back on.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

​@@JeyVGamingfar camera has the higher shake.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

My mod (this one) has only the custom cameras. You can use Vlt-Ed to tweak camera values and bring them closer to the OG.

might have to check out this mod Always fucking HATED the Pro Street driving physics.

I despise the new tap to drift era

As someone that loves prostreet i agree handling is one of its weak points

Lets give it up for RYAANN COOOPEEEER

Prostreet didn't need this shit undercover does but prostreet is alright... maybe have tank slapper mod on but that's it

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

Tank slapper mod does very little, in my testing. I had to go through each car and tweak their steering values so they actually turn at a decent rate. I'd give UC the same treatment if I cared and had the time, honestly.

@iammyworstenemy3807

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit does enough for me

Nah, NFS ProStreet's handling model is good You just need to actually learn it rather than just pressing throttle fullout through every corner (obviously, some cars just handle better than others) Drive one of the Porsche Carrera's in the regular race events for instance, they corner so well A Supra works wonders in the drag events An RX7 for drifting And a really stable car for the top speed challenges, like a Nissan GTR for instance Most Wanted's handling model works in the game it's from. They should work to get Undercover to have Most Wanted's handling model since it's a similar game

@Kacpa2

Ай бұрын

Yeah i never really felt like ProStreet needs any kind of fixing at all. If anything Carbon needs it and definetly PC version of Undercover(PS2 version is fun to play tbh, feels even better than carbon to play somehow even tho its an edit of it). Carbon messed up so much by commiting to stupid car class and tier gimmicks and they made so many cars outright lame and awful to drive, and slowed the game down drasticly when compared to MW05. I just dont have any fun driving in Carbon its main reason i never replay the career of it anymore. I only like drifting in it and canyon races, but since it's so stupidly easy those became boring aswell. MW05 on the other hand i keep revisiting, same with ProStreet and Underground 1.

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

I'm the modder. Pro Street does have a handling problem, namely that the steering response is extremely sluggish and then unreasonably fast to self-center. Playing on gamepad or on keyboard never felt quite right. This mod doesn't give *literal* Most Wanted handling, just a much quicker steering response (and other tweaks). Cars now respond to your input much faster, and under/oversteer at a better rate. Give the mod a try. It's the whole game bundled in an archive. Extract somewhere and play. Hopefully you'll enjoy it.

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

its bAd

What if they put the 2015 handling into 2005? Game of the decade

@TorutheRedFox

Ай бұрын

please no

@MobDKGr

Ай бұрын

Hell NO. It would be a massive disaster since NFS 2015's handling model is utterly flawed and garbage. Plus, it wouldn't fit the Rockport map design. So, better off letting NFS MW 2005's handling physics as it is since it's already perfect. However, the opposite makes more sense. If the NFS MW 2005 handling was implemented into NFS 2015, it would be a massive improvement. Thereafter, No more crabwalking problems.

@m.tammekivi

Ай бұрын

I think u mean other way around

@Kacpa2

Ай бұрын

@@TorutheRedFox I think he is a troll

Hmm need for speed most wanted and prostreet I want to call need for speed prostreet wanted

@bonczy5990

Ай бұрын

need for speed: 'streetwanted

@notariuannemarie2892

Ай бұрын

@@bonczy5990 that work too

Hmmmmm 🤔

I think PS handling is awesome. I always dreamed of a handling like that in a street racing environment. Its super satisfying to take corners. But the mod is exceptional as well

Nfs need something good, Forza holds up with new Horizon 4. I find today Nfs have many complaints and the good impression are holds by UG2,MW, Carbon

I prefer 100x better pro street handling

first

Prostreet handling is so much better. I don't understand the need to drag MW into a perfectly fine game as it is

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

the handling is bad dude what you mean?

@kamilslimak594

Ай бұрын

@@alexmaccain2362 it's not? its not as arcade'y as the other nfs yet not realistic enough to be unenjoyable for the average player, the cars feel like they have some proper weight, the cars over and understeer, and the sense of speed is the best of any nfs i recon. I love it

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

@@kamilslimak594 you might like it but its too light

@kamilslimak594

Ай бұрын

@@alexmaccain2362 and MW's isn't?

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

@@kamilslimak594mw wanted have weight differnces like the cts is very heavy car, lotus elise is superlight and smooth when you turn., m3 gtr is grippy and have downforce but spins out in certin places.

MW handling can't be better than ProStreet. MW handling < U2 handling < PS handling. Only drift was bad in PS

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

dont be a fanboi. mw has better handling than prostreet

@doombreed5530

Ай бұрын

@@alexmaccain2362 don't be a mw fanboy. Mw handling was step back after u2. In ps handling you can tune your car any get anything you need. Understeer or oversteer, grip or lite drift. In ps they make quite realistic downforce. Faster you drive, more downforce you get, and can make corner faster. And after all that you can say that mw handling better)

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

@@doombreed5530 ok then, you seem to not know that in that game every car is front wheel drive. while in mw05 there is awd , fwd, and rwd with actual weight in them. so keep giving people misinfo and see were that do for you.

@doombreed5530

Ай бұрын

@@alexmaccain2362 you have any proof for that loud words "every car is fwd"? In mw difference between wheeldrive presented not so well

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

@@doombreed5530 ah. do a quick google search on both ug1 and 2 on youtube and google, so i dont get why u even telling me. plus why your saying "mw did not present the drivetrains well" makes you seems like a hater more than anything. The reason u discredit mw05 is cause its popular and cause of its popularity u hate it . the ironic thing is your comment is not impactful and the millions of other nfs fans would take mw handing than any other nfs handing physics cause, one exp you can slide on grass like irl losing traction while using rwd, awd actually gives you little bit of traction when griping on street and grass. u can actually use racing lines in the game which make for faster cornering which fun fact cant do un ug1 and 2 cause the cars are very arcade , which end of the day will always be arcade, nfs mw is almost simcade and pretty feel the weight of the cars in that game like the cts,, camero . c6, mustang gt, which these cars are very heavy which is good for smashing cop cars the end of the day. so the agrument that everything you listed so called " better handling than mw" is soooo farther than the truth that i am laughing my buttoff right now🤣🤣🤣😂 the reason i am laughing is that u did not done any research on ug1 and 2 handling phyics and u telling me that that game is better than mw? cry me a riverand do some research.

As if Most Wanted handling is something good. People just love making their games worse nowadays.

Everyone RIDES Carbon and MW "mUh GrEaT pHySiCs" when freaking Hot Pursuit 2 and Underground 2 have the most realistic handling by far of any NFS

@Kacpa2

Ай бұрын

It's not about realism, but how fun and entertaining it is, MW05 has best blend of arcade and sim elements with some liberties taken to make it into something that is as fun a GTA IV's handling, you have the grip, but somehow feel the weight too. Camera work is nearly perfect too. I enjoy underground 2 a bit less than MW05 and Carbon itself is a major stepdown from MW05's gameplay in all aspects, as they messed up almost everything by going so hard with all gimmicks like car classes and tiers on top of slowing everything down and messing up the upgrade system entirely. Its just not fun to race around Palmont and big chunk of cars are just horribly boring or outright awful to drive save for muscle cars and few tuners, but even then its a far cry from Most Wanted's feel.

@waybe-gg1nb

Ай бұрын

as if more realism is better lol most people cant tune their car in ug2

@toddthezondalover645

Ай бұрын

@@Kacpa2 You just reinforced what I said basically

@toddthezondalover645

Ай бұрын

@@waybe-gg1nb Not my fault people are stupid

Nope. MW'05 have worst handling in nfs series.

@waybe-gg1nb

Ай бұрын

wrong

@skyliene

Ай бұрын

your answer wrong.not my comment@@waybe-gg1nb

@MobDKGr

Ай бұрын

Don't kid yourself. What a nonsense L take. Any handling model from past NFS titles before 2012 (the Shift duology spinoff doesn't count) are miles better and more controllable than any NFS games released since 2012 because their respective urban map design never worked with the B2D handling physics. The B2D physics was only designed for maps like Paradise City from Burnout Paradise and Seacrest County from NFS HP 2010/Remastered. If the NFS MW 2005 handling physics were bad as you said, it wouldn't have managed to be successful and sold 17,8 Millions of copies worldwide. Moreover, if NFS Hot Pursuit 2 PS2 developed by Black Box was a commercial failure, the NFS franchise as we know today and the Black Box era wouldn't exist in and be totally different in the first place.

@alexmaccain2362

Ай бұрын

major wrong

Is the modded game already updated to latest patch or should i need to patch it myself first?

@ATomatoIsAFruit

Ай бұрын

The downloadable version is patched to v1.1 and has the generic fix (no more continue bug), as well as other fixes and bugs bundled in

@TerkoizRHG

Ай бұрын

@@ATomatoIsAFruit ​ Ooohh nice then, thank you, now i need to wait before i can download it cuz of this google drive "too many user had downloaded the file" error, gotta download it tomorrow i think