Somewhere along the line, people started conflating "intelligence" with a casual hatred for humanity.

@opinionatortv6457

2 жыл бұрын

We have lost our way

@KnuckleHunkybuck

2 жыл бұрын

"Casual", my ass. It's an active and focused hatred.

@alialmuhanna4938

2 жыл бұрын

Cynicism as well.

@SuperSneakySniper

2 жыл бұрын

You nailed it dude. For some reason, the overly critical and overly negative among us have fooled people into thinking theyre smarter. Which is strange, because when you look at extremely brilliant people in our society, and historically, many of them were extremely optimistic and helpful humans who worked hard to make the world a good place.

@thatguywhois

2 жыл бұрын

​@@SuperSneakySniper so very true.. it's ironic too, they deemed the morally good people as cringey while they themselves are acting cringe by calling themselves the "intelligent"

"Good character's aren't interesting." - No. You're just bad at writing interesting characters.

@wilbert9567

2 жыл бұрын

I think a great counter to that argument is shounen anime there are plenty of protagonists who are basically wholey good while still being interesting and loved such as Edward Elric, Monkey D. Luffy and Naruto Uzumaki

@trevorflanagan4873

2 жыл бұрын

They need to go watch Everything Everywhere All At Once🤯

@MegaMicah12

2 жыл бұрын

@@wilbert9567 Naruto I find especially interesting as he basically starts out as a delinquent and then changes overtime to someone people highly respect. He gets a ton of flack too due to actually wanting to help people. It's kind of hilarious honestly in restrospective that some people hate that.

@keodiozubu8670

2 жыл бұрын

Ehhhh. Yes and no. The public is very cynical and someone like a Superman would jive with the public. I mean look at Batman and especially the joker the movie. Cynical takes on characters and did millions

@patrickbuckley7259

2 жыл бұрын

If I have learned anything of late, it's that morally grey or evil characters are not inherently more interesting than morally good ones. I'd argue the opposite. Anyone can have a goal. Having principles that stand in the way of that goal and force you to try and work around them to achieve your goal without compromising your ideals? Literally baked into a moral characters nature. Evil characters are just those who have lost, or twisted their principles. So they are the second most compelling. While Amoral characters are dead last, as they literally lack any kind of nuance, or guiding principle beyond their end goals. They are essentially the most brain dead possible character template, plus you get the bonus of stroking the egos of the smoothbrains who think amorality = moral complexity.

“Everyone is a moral relativist until they get punched in the face” - Mike Tyson, probably

@davetarone6690

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn’t expecting to see you here

@MrAlepedroza

2 жыл бұрын

Not that simple, mate. If I get punched in the face for bullying or punching someone unprovoked, maybe the right answer is not punching back as much as I may want to. Like it or not, many if not most moral decissions aren't black or white and believing only you know the "right thing to do" can lead to you doing a bad thing.

@theboombody

2 жыл бұрын

Well said. No one's a moral relativist when they think they're right and they're in a room full of people they think are wrong.

@prakherdubey9572

2 жыл бұрын

its a lie, its for people who can't control their emotions

@MrAlepedroza

2 жыл бұрын

​​​@@theboombody Just for a second, imagine its the reverse: you're a patriotic, loudmouth American in the 2000's who fully supported the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, surrounded by resentful refugees o said countries. The only thing stopping them from tearing you to pieces, besides law enforcement, may be your ability to either shut up...or be diplomatic, listen to their viewpoints and consider that maybe your posture is wrong, while in reality no one may fully be in the right. That's moral relativism for ya. The ability to consider you're a finite human being and that your "stone-set morals" may be wrong, therefore being capable of not tearing someone else to pieces over moral disagreements. That's the basis of the modern society you folks take for granted, ignoring how we killed each other back when we believe we were could definitely not be morally wrong ever.

"There's some good in this world Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for".

@EnnuiPilgrim

Жыл бұрын

"Sam! You can't swim!"

@SaulOhio

Жыл бұрын

I was expecting them to use Sam in this video, but they used him in another one.

@younevergofullcanaanite

Жыл бұрын

I can't carry the ring Mr Frodo...but I can carry Yooooou.!!!

This is why Zuko is a popular character. He so desperately wants Ozai's approval but Iroh gives him a moral compass and in the end he choses to ditch Ozai and help defeat him because he realizes that his father's approval is worth less to him than doing what's right. Zuko was always a good person who was just blinded daddy issues.

@Drawingsagespaz

2 жыл бұрын

The best thing about it is even though he betrayed his uncle he got everything he wanted, most other shows would make the character regret taking such a selfish action but this show didn’t. Which makes Zuko going on the good side even better.

@fun_police8011

2 жыл бұрын

@@Drawingsagespaz But he did regret betraying his uncle. He says so to Azula right after doing it and to The Gang before he reunites with Iroh.

@Drawingsagespaz

2 жыл бұрын

@@fun_police8011 that’s true, but I’m mostly focusing on the show giving him what he wanted instead of punishing him for picking his desires over morals. It makes Zuko an even more powerful character for doing what is morally right even if that means throwing everything away.

@user-cq1cw8xz7f

2 жыл бұрын

That's Phoenix King Ozai for you

@MoonPhantom

2 жыл бұрын

Can we also take a moment to talk about Iroh here? Who hates Iroh? Who says Iroh is an uninteresting character? NOBODY! We all love Iroh. And we know he is always striving towards doing what is morally correct. What we can also gather as we get pieces of Iroh's background story is that he wasn't always like this. He was a bad person back in the day, who killed, and did things far worse than what Zuko ever did. The lost of his son as a direct consequence of his own actions was Iroh's slap back into reality and ever since he has ALWAYS strived towards being as good of a person as he possibly can be. He never lowers himself to Zhao's level even when he's angry, and treats his own robber very kindly. He is a character with a very dark past and background story. but is still seeking to do good and setting a good example by BEING this example himself. He took responsibility for his own failures and thus aimed at doing better. And Zuko learned that from him and did the same. And Aang is also a character with a very good heart, but he makes mistakes, cause he's a kid... His journey though isn't to become bitter. His journey is to admit to his mistakes, knowing that there are things in life that hurt and not everything is easy. And STILL stay true to his moral principles leading into the final battle and the final solution.

Modern morality - "There is no such thing as objective good and evil" Also modern morality - "I'm going to protest that x is unfair"

@SirMattomaton

2 жыл бұрын

Because modern cosmopolitan Liberalism has embraced cognitive and moral relativism. As they abandon traditional views and belief that have seen humans endure and prosper, even in the worst of times... The modernist's new God is mainstream media propaganda... These types have no idea that they are cattle being led into a slaughter house, in the not so distant future.

@Jeebus7734

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, this isn't inconsistent, one could be a non cognitivist.

@Embassy_of_Jupiter

2 жыл бұрын

You're mixing good&evil up with good&bad, one assigns morality, the other assigns usefulness. You can protest something, because it benefits you personally. That isn't the same as protesting because you think something is evil. Good and bad are relative to the goals of a goal driven agent. Good and evil is relative to some abstract morality framework, that is built so people can interact with each other to more likely further the goals of everyone. Something can be good in terms of morality, but not in terms of usefulness. Like returning a wallet. Basically like the set of behaviors that maximize utility for you vs the set of behaviors that maximize the sum total utility of everyone. It's basically just heuristics we use to get what we want. The fact that people mix up these two concepts is probably why we are in this mess in the first place, because it makes it impossible to have a productive discussion if your opposition thinks you are evil for doing something that doesn't benefit them personally.

@lazar2949

2 жыл бұрын

@@Embassy_of_Jupiter The thing is objective morality in fact does not exist, but we shouldn't act like that. When i say we, i mainly think of general population who does not think about these topics too deeply because when you hear that there is no objective morality and you dont think about it deeply, you will end up with the conclusion that there is absolutely no meaning, that there are no borders, that everything is "right" and you will have mass surge of ideologies, very destructive ones who wont think that way of themselves. Sure, everything is fine, if you want to end up with a civilization that is digging its own grave. What we are seeing today is actually a pretty scary form of nihilism that has spread across the nations.

@Embassy_of_Jupiter

2 жыл бұрын

@@lazar2949 Well I'd argue there is objective morality relative to the context of human beings on this planet earth in the sense that the rules that maximize utility for everyone are roughly the same everywhere and everywhen (lol). But it's more a bunch of fuzzy guidelines than hard rules, but these are relatively fixed. Sort of how you will find an electron in many different positions and all of them are correct, but to fully describe it, you need to look at the full set of it's positions, aka the orbital. They don't really have clear limits, just like a normal distribution does not. But it's pretty clear where the "average" morality lies and it's 95% confidence intervals. The farther you get from the mean the more evil it gets and the farther two moral stances are from each, the more evil they will see each other. Like all the good faith arguments on abortion for example are all part of objective morality. So it's well defined it just doesn't fit well into our need to sort everything into neat little boxes. But if humans or the environment would change, then objective morality would change too. This whole concept also applies to meaning, happiness etc.. It is pretty clear what gives people meaning or makes us happy, but again there is no clear limits that you can identify. But because people can't find the limits they think there is none, but that's pretty stupid if you ask me. Just like a probability density distribution, you can't say any point is THE definite meaning of life, but you can clearly say that some points are more likely to be meaningful as others. So just keep approximately to the "mean" meaning and you should be fine. You can clearly say having and caring for a family is most probably more meaningful than eating glue all day, but sometimes the second one can be just as meaningful. Sorry if this is kind of convoluted and confusing, but I don't think there is another way of explaining it. But we are probabilistic beings in a probabilistic universe, so the answers will also be. But if you were to visit an alien planet with a completely different biology, their objective morals would be different. But I think that all evolved intelligent agents' objective morals will more or less overlap, because there are just certain rules that improve chances of survival, like cooperation and competition. But there is intrinsic meaning, just meaning for you and your goals. Extremely long story short, nihilism is dumb.

It's easier to write a gritty character in dark settings than writing a beacon of light in a world of darkness.

@heymeRaj

Жыл бұрын

Nah. I don't think either is necessarily the case. Good writing is tough writing.

@amimim69

11 ай бұрын

Nah...Good writing is tough..it can be on good gray or bad characters

This is just my two cents, but I feel as though the reason “morally grey” characters are so mainstream nowadays is because our outlook as a society has become increasingly jaded and nihilistic. People nowadays are simply unable or unwilling to see the good around us, and we are forgetting what it means to be happy. There are many factors behind this, but I think the biggest one so far is the flood of negativity spouting from social media and other sources like it. Just my opinion.

@pleasegoawaydude

2 жыл бұрын

I think the biggest problem is that the world actually is really shit, and nobody is fixing it, and right now it's actively getting worse. But because that doesn't affect a lot of you, you get to just act like everyone is whining.

@kirionj.a.w1147

2 жыл бұрын

@@pleasegoawaydude Whining doesn't help does it? The only thing making humanity striving still until now is the positive mindset it has and the possibility of a far better future. Remembering the bad of the world reminds us the good we can do to subdue it, and keeping death in mind can help us knowing what Life can truly offers. However, embracing this apocalyptic and nihilistic mindset of negative morality and the lawless nature of men is not giving us a chance of embracing that good future. We are instead spiralling down to the abyss of despair because we are willing to do so. People whine and they will throw themselves down that moral abyss.

@jacquelinedavis9948

2 жыл бұрын

@@pleasegoawaydude Like how you're whining now instead of going out there and doing something to counteract it?

@10RexTheWolf01

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah but if issues of the past never got fully resolved and keeps repeating in the present then we're never gonna have actual peace.

@xx_amongus_xx6987

2 жыл бұрын

@@jacquelinedavis9948 You don't know what the word whining means lol

Lord of the Rings is the best argument against the whole "good characters are boring". The whole books is about good characters fighting against evil and temptation. Aragorn is a hell of a character and is as much as a boy scout as golden age Superman.

@rubbers3

2 жыл бұрын

The issue with LotR is that movies are great, but the books are some of the dullest and boringest books I've ever tried to read. Had to drop halfway through, during the description of battle of isengard, because it was just shite.

@DreamyAileen

2 жыл бұрын

@@rubbers3 Then you can just watch the movies, no need to read the books if you don't enjoy it

@deriznohappehquite

2 жыл бұрын

@@rubbers3 tell me you are an ADHD zoomer without telling me you are an ADHD zoomer.

@JohnDoe-dr9ff

2 жыл бұрын

@@deriznohappehquite Books without pictures are HARD!

@lainiwakura1776

2 жыл бұрын

@@deriznohappehquite Tolkien waxes poetic about things that are not important to the story. I've read Anne freaking Rice, the queen of purple prose, and I struggle with LOTR.

The idea that morally wholesome characters are "Mary Sues" is nonsense. That's not what the term "Mary Sue" means. That's not a mere difference of opinion.

@thisguy4505

2 жыл бұрын

However a Mary Sue is often what results from the attempt to create a morally upright character by individuals whose moral compass has been corrupted.

@rich520

2 жыл бұрын

MARY SUES JUST WANT TO HANG OUT WITH THEIR HEROES.

@howardmurphy8019

2 жыл бұрын

To say it like that is to imply doing the right thing is a god-given talent, and not something anyone could choose do.

@hideoeduardokojima8340

2 жыл бұрын

@@howardmurphy8019 Maybe they don’t like good characters because it makes them feel bad? Seeing bad characters probably makes them justify their immorality? Edit: typo

@fruitiusmaximus925

2 жыл бұрын

@@hideoeduardokojima8340 Bingo

This is why spider-man is amazing, he’s a paragon that has gone through so much tragedy and has done bad things but still tries to do the right thing even when it hurts

@andrewpresley8676

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I mean look at Insomniac’s Spider-Man or the movie No Way Home, in one of them, his choices and actions lead to a multitude of events that makes the first mission of the game make more sense, in the other, his decision to erase/rectify people’s memories with a constant add-ons to his list causing a multiverse wide event to happen, only once he lost his aunt, did he know what he had to do, make the right choice. In the game, save everyone else to develop a vaccine, in the movie save the lives of the villains. This is why Spider-Man will be one the best example of a true hero and a good person on the side.

@12345Micki

Жыл бұрын

I maintain original Toby MacGuire Spiderman is best. Keeps getting kicked down, but seeks to always be good.

@Zlagie

Жыл бұрын

@@12345Micki Absolutely agree. People want to revise his character as corny or dorky, but only Tobey's Peter Parker fills me with that feeling of warmth and hope to the fullest extent. Also hurts the hardest when he has such huge shortcomings throughout the story!

I found the one and only "Dracula" novel by Bram Stoker to be an inspiring Gothic horror tale of human who descend into darkness to fight a physically and psychologically intimidating antagonist before they emerge in the sun. Jonathan Harker nearly goes insane with a brain fever, but he musters up courage to claw his way out of Dracula's castle. Quincey Morris and Dr. Jack Seward donate their blood to Lucy, even though she declined their marriage proposals. Arthur Holmwood is devastated when Lucy becomes a vampire but he doesn't shirk at the moment he must stake her, allowing Lucy to "rejoin the angels in heaven". Dr. Van Helsing becomes frustrated when Dracula thwarts their plans, but he soldiers on doggedly as the elderly wise mentor of the team. As for the wonderful "Madam Mina", she is a thoughtful and intelligent woman whose presence inspires everyone around her to fight on and protect her from the encompassing darkness.

@rejanrobinson8797

2 жыл бұрын

Right! The original book is better than any of the movies. Genuinely scary but the morally good are triumph. It's an inherently biblical narrative tho and Hollywood hates Christianity and Christian morals.

@alexanderavila4662

2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes it feels as if Mina was just using people blindly but yea she’s cool though

@MegaKnight2012

Жыл бұрын

The original Dracula was far better than I expected it to be when I read it. I was reading the Lord of the Rings for school and I couldn't help seeing comparisons, like how the vampire corruption was similar to the corruption that Sauron's rings caused. Mina as a moral person inspiring others reminded me of the way Tolkien wrote women like Galadriel and Arwen. Mina even asks the others to be forgiving towards Dracula, whilst stopping his evil, similar to how Frodo wanted to forgive Gollum, because Gollum could barely help himself.

@Rosefire

Жыл бұрын

@@MegaKnight2012 Excellent analysis, well said. I didn't realize how much Mina's forgiving nature was similar to Frodo until you pointed it out. In both stories you have an unlikely band of heroes who volunteer on a mission to save the world from a dark antagonist. Good literature allows us to expand our minds and see patterns and resemblances in other great works.

@MegaKnight2012

Жыл бұрын

@@Rosefire Very astute

A character morally good ≠ Mary Sue A character who is flawless (or everything they do wrong has no negative consequences or even positive consequences) and has the universe change its rules to suit said character = Mary Sue Those two concepts are not the same people

@darkzeroprojects4245

2 жыл бұрын

Even the most powerful characters in fiction didn't usually have the world change rules to suit them,but they instead have to obey the rules of their world.

@slevinchannel7589

2 жыл бұрын

GREAT Supplement to this video, cause it explains the reason why many look at Reality as if it's all dark: 'Our Popcorn Dystopia' by 'Some More News'.

@davidarvingumazon5024

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkzeroprojects4245 Featherine Umineko is a Mary Sue side character.

@ProxyDoug

2 жыл бұрын

People who write Mary sues think all male heroes are Steven Seagal characters and don't see the struggle they go through, just the situation, and the resolution.

@zionleach3001

2 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY. Dante from Devil May Cry doesn't pretend to be a virtuos person. But he still help people EVEN if he doesn't get paid.

“To destroy a society, you must first sever their roots.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

@KarrieDreammind5

2 жыл бұрын

@Damon Gargoyle What is absurd about this video?

@KarrieDreammind5

2 жыл бұрын

@Damon Gargoyle Please explain your point.

@KarrieDreammind5

2 жыл бұрын

@Damon Gargoyle Read what? I don't see any other comment from you..

@KarrieDreammind5

2 жыл бұрын

@Damon Gargoyle Sorry, it seems your second comment has disappeared.

@siluda9255

2 жыл бұрын

@Damon Gargoyle i disagree with this quote :)

The problem is that people are getting “Good characters” confused with “Perfect characters”

A good example of a morally good character being more interesting is aang vs kora. aang is so torn and emotional about the things people want him to do that he knows to be wrong and him finding solutions that fit within his morality was one of the best parts of the show. as opposed to kora whose actions are constantly justified as the greater good.

@K1ng1995

7 ай бұрын

If you read the comic " The Promise " A lot of the issues in the comic could've been solved if Aang hadn't ran away 100 years ago.

@projectpems8304

5 ай бұрын

Aang literally prioritized his own Airbender morals over the lives of innocents, he completely refused to kill Ozai, without understanding that his existence means more people will die in war. Korra’s an idiot, but at least she wanted to do her job

"The trouble is that we have a bad habit, encouraged by pedants and sophisticates, of considering happiness as something rather stupid. Only pain is intellectual, only evil interesting. This is the treason of the artist; a refusal to admit the banality of evil and the terrible boredom of pain." Ursula K. LeGuin. She knew what was up.

@sageoverheaven

2 жыл бұрын

I still remember the Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas being an optional reading in high school, and every year that passes by, I get more and more grateful to my English professor for making us read that one.

@historyfan6684

2 жыл бұрын

God I miss her. She was a wonderful light even in her last years when she was in poor health. I was lucky enough to meet her at a SF convention in the 80s and strike up a friendship. Did you know she was also an avid gamer? She loved the idea behind the City of Heroes MMO

@justinhart2831

2 жыл бұрын

Wait a second. I thought the problem with our current immoral age was that we all value pleasure too highly.

@smartalec2001

2 жыл бұрын

@@justinhart2831 Maybe the search for pleasure isn't really a search for happiness. Or maybe stories of evil and pain give us some pleasure we can't get elsewhere.

@justinhart2831

2 жыл бұрын

@@smartalec2001 the point is, what should I feel bad about?

You know how people like to say, “Evil isn’t born. It’s made” Well, the opposite is also true. Good Characters aren’t good just because. As we get older, it can get harder and harder for us to maintain some kind of morality. We get hurt, our faiths and morals are tested, etc, but movie media likes to portray that as only ignorance or stupidity when it should also be the molding of a good person. People like C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien did not just appear out of thin air. They had to go through trials in their lives before they even started writing anything, and it was only after their trials that they began to both document what they learned in their works and also predict the future of how society will act today (Read Abolition of Man for example. People thought it was ludicrous for a time, but the book is extremely similar to the attitude of certain people now)

@sadbearsfan1603

2 жыл бұрын

I think what you said about how we get tested as we get older can actually explain why people are so interested in the morally grey kinds of characters. Many people can relate to that, and I can say that some of my beliefs and morals have changed from like 5 years ago. A lot of young adults feel the pressures of everyday life and all the bad news and end up becoming more cynical. I know I have. But it also explains why I love Spider-Man and Obi-Wan so much. They always do the right thing. I saw some one on twitter said characters like that could be unrealistic, but that’s not necessarily the point. The point is more so the idea to always do the right thing. And that’s why I love those characters. If I were Peter in Spider-Man 2, idk if would have went back to being a superhero after seeing how my life got so much better. But seeing Peter still do it and persevering fills me with a lot of hope and happiness. It makes me want to do that same thing. Mark, from Invincible, had just went through the most traumatic experience of his life because of his father and told him “You dad, I’d still have you” with tears flowing down his face. Seeing characters like that make me feel like I want to persevere myself. It’s quite a powerful emotion when I sit back and think about it.

@TheHeroRobertELee

2 жыл бұрын

I 100% agree with everything he said in this video. Sadly, those negative criticisms he received are from people who are victims of this societal decay. In a world where abortion is considered moral, polyamory is "normal", and "child love" is an "orientation", it's no wonder we are at where we are. People are suffering. They've lost their sense of right and wrong. Their sense of good and evil. Their sense of truth and fiction. It's increasingly become obvious this is all a symptom of post modernism and the break down of the nuclear family in our society. More and more people suffer from existential despair and fail to realize the cause of it all. And unfortunately, it's not just the culture that creates this environment. Our government only encourages and exacerbates this framework by feeding into it and validating it.

@ashemcclure9848

2 жыл бұрын

But the thing is, yes, it's nice to see an always good character but if they just stay the same good all their life then we start to get the impression it's less that they're pure and more that they never changed as a person. You can be a good person all your life but that doesn't mean your views cant change and your morality evolve.

@10RexTheWolf01

2 жыл бұрын

But aren't a lot of hero's mainly good because they were presented/given an opportunity to be better? For example Demon Slayer. Tanjiro was only becoming better because his sister was manage to survive and get back her senses and Giyuu allowed them to get the help they needed where as someone like Gyutaro and Daki only had struggle and disapointment and in the end it was a demon that saved them. Or how about Naruto, he didn't turn dark because Iruka was the first to start believing in him and was next given chances to prove he is capable of being better but Gaara wasn't and he later became a heartless monster. In short, hero's are presented with a better chance cause someone was there to help them while other's were basically doom to fall cause no one was there to save them when they really need it. Do you think Captain America would still be Captain America if he was never given that serum?

@wonjez3982

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, a good person either needs respect (which is well ment ignorance) or a good understanding of it's surroundings and others perspectives.

A minor correction to the title: Morality is _not_ dead. It's just dead for _certain people._

@mikeexits

Жыл бұрын

Well, it depends on what lens of interpretation you're view it from. Nietzche also said "God is dead" but there was more context to it than just the plain, one-dimensional 3-word phrase everyone loves to quote. "God is dead within modern mainstream 'western' culture" is closer to the truth of it, but viewed through the right context/lens of interpretation, the original phrase makes sense under the larger intended meaning.

I recently rewatched The Two Towers again, and Sam’s speech resonated with me more than it ever has before. A hopefulness while staring into the abyss that things can get better. A message everyone needs to hear these days.

@daveanthony7431

2 жыл бұрын

It's a very Christian worldview and is one that I yearn to see in movies today.

@10RexTheWolf01

2 жыл бұрын

It can once people stop finding excuses to be shit for no reason not to mention actually acknowledging that their actions were only good for some and not many or all.

@straightfacts5352

2 жыл бұрын

Hope is fool's gold. It's for children. For adults, the only goal is fearlessness. That's it.

@MrCmon113

2 жыл бұрын

@@daveanthony7431 In Christianity you don't act to make things better, you just try to safe your ass into the afterlife.

@aceofspadesguy4913

2 жыл бұрын

@@straightfacts5352 You must be a delightful person to be around

It's a vicious cycle: storytelling gets increasingly focused on nihilism and immorality, then all those who consume these stories internalize them and make the world around them more nihilistic and immoral, then as society loses sight of its morals and values, the aforementioned trend in storytelling becomes normalized and dominates entertainment media.

@bludeuce3855

2 жыл бұрын

and the end result is you have violent leftists being killed by street thugs my cousin in PA saw 3 street thugs kill 2 woke leftists

@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz

2 жыл бұрын

when was the world better than this exactly?

@AcesMaven

2 жыл бұрын

@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz I know I'm a typical 90s kid, but I felt the world in the 90s was better.

@jimluebke3869

2 жыл бұрын

There's a virtuous cycle that goes along with that. The more people reject nihilism and immorality, the more people around them notice this and start to change their behavior and beliefs to something more positive.

@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz

2 жыл бұрын

@@AcesMaven hmm in the general scope I would say the 90s were the same minus the amazing wonders of technology like there hasn't been a major cultural change, things are just going in the same direction

I’m kind of getting burnt out on dystopian stories. Whereas it can be inspiring to occasionally see a character do the right thing despite the world overwhelmingly being wrong, sometimes I miss a “Star Trek” type world where, despite our flaws, we eventually turned out ok.

@rainbowunicornnun

2 жыл бұрын

Me too man. Just like I'm burned out on Marvel films, I'm getting tired of these dystopian films.

@mustang607

2 жыл бұрын

As dystopian stories become more normal, a dystopia becomes more normal

@K1ng1995

2 жыл бұрын

What about Percy Jackson? Those characters all have fatal flaws. Percy: Loyalty Annabeth: Pride Thalia: Temptation Nico: Holding Grudges All those characters had these flaws but overall the learned to control them and they still are heroes

@peskylisa

2 жыл бұрын

Same here. I despise dystopia, unless it is used as a cautionary tale such as 1984 or Brave new World. I never understood the appeal of The hunger games, or the giver, and a show like squid game positively sickens me

@K1ng1995

2 жыл бұрын

@@peskylisa but as the host says you can't judge other's for example if I killed someone because they caused a close family member of mine deep trauma both physical and mental. Does that make me a murderer? If your a homeless child and you sneak into hotels on stolen credit cards because homeless kids are 4 times more likely to be assaulted or killed go look at a homeless shelter you'll hardly see kids there because they get beaten out and have to sleep out in the cold.

Audiences crave characters who are flawed and have an arc that gives them at least a chance at redemption. Frodo wasn’t born a hero, he became one. Tony Stark was an alcoholic, misogynist arms dealer who became a hero. Characters who aren’t flawed aren’t relatable.

@zbj4240

9 ай бұрын

Agreed wholeheartedly, I wish there were more comments like this here.

"Being a good person is a heck of a lot harder..." True. I agreed with the points of this video. It makes it tempting to embrace Luddism. Ever fantasize about what life might be like without Hollywood and the internet?

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

There is nothing enviable or admirable in living a life breaking one's back for others.

@ghoul4748

2 жыл бұрын

@@neo-filthyfrank1347 Good isn't about working for others without receiving anything in return, being good is about having the power and opportunity to commit evil and choosing to do good instead in spite of that temptation.

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

@@ghoul4748 Good isn't even a coherent concept and it certainly is not binding in any capacity. The argument the video presented about "good being harder" is not only wrongheaded from many angles but also makes no sense as motivation for someone to be good. Torturing yourself to death is also hard, that doesn't mean one should do it.

@ryanthereaper5032

2 жыл бұрын

nope it's not you ever actually done something bad to someone else when you been brought up to be good it isn't a good feeling while your doing it and it a takes a while for your brain to wrap around what you just did and find a way to move past it

@MrCmon113

2 жыл бұрын

The heroic Mr Inventor VS the evil Dr Luddite, who seeks to destroy civilization.

I would also add Matt Murdock to the list of interesting and heroic characters my favorite line is when he refuses to kill Kingpin and he said with all of the passion he could muster "You don't get to destroy who I am"

@generalj216

2 жыл бұрын

I think doctor who would be a good example too. (Until recent seasons at least)

@projectx7453

2 жыл бұрын

Agree

@projectx7453

2 жыл бұрын

Him and Nelson

@ryanthereaper5032

2 жыл бұрын

this is what I hate about heroes though I would rather have an antihero cause they get rid of those bad guys permanently sure the daredevil is good but damn I wanted him to kill sometimes like come on you can still beat up lesser criminals but these real big threats shouldn't be left unchecked

@Cloudy_Games_99

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent scene

Hollywood: “No one should ever have firearms!!!” Also: *Several hundred thousand depictions of when firearms being incredibly useful for defending one’s or others lives* 🎩 🐍no step on Snek! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

@klanders988

2 жыл бұрын

definition of irony.

@krustyknight2943

2 жыл бұрын

How does Hollywood say no one should have firearms?

@JorenMathews

2 жыл бұрын

@@krustyknight2943 By and large you'll find Hollywood types supporting gun control (for everyone but their private security of course).

@johnarnold7984

2 жыл бұрын

@@krustyknight2943 What rock have you been living under?

@krustyknight2943

2 жыл бұрын

@@JorenMathews are you misconstruing Hollywood actors and the characters they play in movies? Also, most people are advocating for stricter gun regulation not an outright ban

I feel like "Breaking Bad", "Joker", and "Game of Thrones" WERE cautionary tales. When you really look at them, pretty much all the morally-wrong characters in those works ended up dead or far worse off than they started. People just got so swept up in rooting for dubious anti-heroes or villain protagonists that they lost sight of that.

That's why people are liking more and more Korean dramas and Korean movies ..instead telling that everybody is somewhere immoral , the kdrama and movies shows the glimpse of morality and humanity even among the most immoral!character ....humanity and emotions really drives their whole story

Smiling Friends is a great antidote to the nihilistic type of modern media we get nowadays. It’s about two friends who try to make people happy and they usually succeed. The show isn’t afraid to depict bleak situations but they always end happily with a good message. One of the reasons why Smiling Friends blew up in popularity was because its happy outlook was a great breath of fresh air in a society that is growing too nihilistic. The characters are likeable and the people the titular Smiling Friends help end up in a better position than they were before.

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

This entire video and the comments within it are strikingly unintelligent and cringe.

@TheAzureNightmare

2 жыл бұрын

@@neo-filthyfrank1347 For what reason?

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheAzureNightmare Because 1. The general ideas about morality and the desire for it in media is wrongheaded and pathetic 2. Seriously getting upset or glad at the prospect of consuming media, and seeing this consumption as an end in it of itself as opposed to creating something is a tragic way to live.

@Prototype9871

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but they don’t care what happens to other in order to complete their task. So do the ends justify the means.

@federalcasemaker

2 жыл бұрын

@@neo-filthyfrank1347 shut up with the mental gymnastics

Honestly this entire video makes me think extremely about Vinland Saga, the manga basically tells this entire story of wanting to become a better person and how hard it can be to do so in a world that believes that the answer to all their problems is violence, if anyone reads this I'd highly recommend reading it and giving it at least to the 3rd arc where it's true message begins to take shape.

@pamperedmaster8690

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and the meaning of Thor's words: A true warrior doesnt need a sword.

@JavierGomezX

2 жыл бұрын

Dude. You just sold me on Vinland Saga, I just saw the first couple episodes and lost interest. I will pick it up again now, thanks.

@waseem__600

2 жыл бұрын

"I have no enemies"

@usrnewxnew5227

2 жыл бұрын

@@JavierGomezX it's great. the anime was just the prologue. After that the character development that thorfinn gets is some of the best i've read.

@justinchalifoux4424

2 жыл бұрын

@@JavierGomezX season 2 will be fucking bonkers just you wait

This is exactly why I've been going back to rewatch some childhood shows because now everything has such a disillusioned view of morality, People have stopped trying to tell great stories.

@somekindofflower2024

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Things were just different and refreshing

What Gareth Edwards means is: Genes = Hardware Memes = Software

There can be many nuances to the personalities of different moral characters. My favorite example is Sam from The Lord of the Rings, he is shown to be morally exceptional with his greatest trait being his loyalty. I believe that the problem right now is that it takes a truly moral person to write a great hero, and it’s hard to find people like that. You make a good point that there is a problem with depicting heroic characters as naive, every person that I’ve met with those characteristics is aware of the great evil in the world but they still strive against it.

@ianpage2509

2 жыл бұрын

“I can’t carry it for, you but I can carry you!”

@danialhillmann5374

2 жыл бұрын

jrr tolkien was a very smart man he also knew and interacted with the elites, his book can be read as a warning to all of us

@gabriellockhart

2 жыл бұрын

I would modify not a truly moral person but rather a moral person who strives and struggles to be a better man then he is currently.

@TheSolitaryEye

2 жыл бұрын

Dude, Sam is the best good guy, hands down.

@BatalionHunter

2 жыл бұрын

I like the belgariad. the main group of characters all have varying views and moralities as befits a bunch of different people from differing backgrounds a princess, to a thousand+ year old sorcerer, knight, thef/spy, a warrior/berzerker, an escaped slave, to a religious zealot you have characters like Silk(/Prince Kheldar) is a good guy in spite of him being a spy, thief, assassin, merchant, and smuggler. at one point he's asked about money and tells the main character its not about the money. money is only a way of keeping score it's about the game. Durnik a simple blacksmith, he's rational and practical and always does his best at one point he is asked why he's working so hard at a piece for the underside of a local merchants cart and tells the mc even if no one else ever sees what I'm working on I will know its there and I will be aware of it every time I see this cart sir mandorellen vo mimbre I think this quote describes mandorellan "My lance, my sword, and my good right arm stand ever at thy service, and, forasmuch as I am--as all the world doth know--the mightiest knight on life, I doubt not that the overthrow of these miscreant knights shall be but a light task, which I gladly undertake, and my skill and my prowess are such that, barring accident, I may confidently assure thee that their overthrow shall not do them permanent injury."

“Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for.” ― George Sand

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

Absolute cringe

@_Sage967_

2 жыл бұрын

@@neo-filthyfrank1347 i mean "art for the sake of art" is the kinda logic that made "Cuties". a product devoid of the nuances of what actually making it would be in relation to the message we are told it attempts to convey purely due to the fact that on paper it might sound artsy and out-of-box

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

@@_Sage967_ I'm no expert on cuties but from my understanding it's the exact opposite. A show made for the purpose of feverishly pushing some ideological agenda intimately tied to politics and society.

@_Sage967_

2 жыл бұрын

@@neo-filthyfrank1347 "Art for Art's sake" comes across as "form over substance" and Cuties perfectly encapsulates the common negative form of the to an egregious degree. yes, cuties is meant to push a political agenda BUT if it CARED about its message it would not be "Cuties" because the execution is in direct contradiction of its message in the eyes of (hopefully) most people. The form and image of what the movie was to be superseded any potential concerns that may have ever been brought up and it was lauded and praised by people not simply for its message but for how it conveyed that message despite doing so flying in the face of its themes. TL:DR what i meant was that the message of Cuties didn't seem to matter to the creator or else it wouldn't be made like it was. any movie could've had this theme but in order to stand out, especially as a small-time film it was given a particular form and thus the theme wouldn't matter beyond guaranteeing a certain level of support, or at least that's how ive always interpreted its situation (not much of a TL:DR though)

@neo-filthyfrank1347

2 жыл бұрын

@@_Sage967_ You've lost me. Are you suggesting that the show's message was NOT an endorsement of the sexualization of children? Because I had in mind that it very much was. But more to the central point art does not need any reason to exist, and the exploration of all manner of ideas and notions within it is certainly good, but art is not to be subservient to crafting works that endorse whatever values happen to be the societally accepted at the time. The function of art is a lot more versatile and profound than trying to effect "positive" social change.

If everyone believes everyone around them is horrible, it allows them to justify any horrible acts against said "horrible people" because "they deserve it"

I chuckle at the notion that good and bad don't exist when clearly they do. And most of the people that make this claim do so because they have chosen to do bad things and don't want to be punished for doing them.

@supahjadi8944

2 жыл бұрын

I always ask these same people "Is murder bad?" And if they say "Yes because it's good for our species," or some supposedly innate biological desire, and then I ask them "Why is it good for that desire to be good?" And they always remain stumped.

@K1ng1995

Ай бұрын

Evil can't be scientifically defined: it's an illusory moral concept that doesn't exist in nature. Its origins and connotations have been inextricably been linked to religion and mythology. Spencer Reid Also is it murder when animals kill prey?

I'm not sure if I agree with the quote, "We need to believe that everyone is basically good." I think the better way to phrase it is that everyone is flawed, but we all have great potential to do good. When we act upon opportunities to do or be good, that is when person has good morals. Many people have the desire to do good and we must and encourage and put hope in our fellow man to act upon that desire; however, many deny those opportunities.

@JavierGomezX

2 жыл бұрын

@GG BG Mathew 10:16 "Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves." Jesus Christ himself advised to be cautious about other people do, for our sakes so you are right from a Christian perspective. We need to be innocent, but also wise enough to grant people the benefit of the doubt without putting ourselves in danger. But assuming somebody is innocent until proven guilty is only fair and compassionate. Is what we should all aspire to be. Failing to behave like that is proven to produce a huge unnecessary amount of suffering.

@JavierGomezX

2 жыл бұрын

@GG BG @GG BG Mathew 10:16 "Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves." Jesus Christ himself advised to be cautious about other people for our sakes, so you are right from a Christian perspective. We need to be innocent, but also wise enough to grant people the benefit of the doubt without putting ourselves in danger. But assuming somebody is innocent until proven guilty is only fair and compassionate. Is what we should all aspire to be. Failing to behave like that is proven to produce a huge unnecessary amount of suffering. That is why our entire judicial system is based on that idea, it is a miracle we even got to that point and we shouldn't lose hold of that unbelievable right. The right of being innocent until PROVEN guilty. I think that is what John Locke actually meant.

@troythedeconstructionist1382

2 жыл бұрын

Aspiring to be a "good person" is supremely pathetic behavior as well as those who promote and vindicate such an endeavor.

@JavierGomezX

2 жыл бұрын

@@troythedeconstructionist1382 What makes you think that? Would the world be better if everybody thought like that?

@troythedeconstructionist1382

2 жыл бұрын

@GG BG *John Locke WAS wrong. We are closer to evil than good (but not entirely either).* That doesn't mean anything. The only reason that view can sustain itself is because life is not some universal covenant between critters for the assurance of each other's hedonism, but instead, a constant cycle of renewal between competing entities in an ever-changing, unstopping stage. This is what man and all other beings came from and this is the only context in which they can properly function. Nothing else is fit for them.

It’s not even about shows featuring a dark world. It’s about characters with good morals inherently not being able to survive in it. If the lesson of every show is that you can’t strive while being good, that’s how you get an ultra individualistic society where noone does good for the sake of it.

@ImAMenace

2 жыл бұрын

Or the ultra gregarian societies (Japan) where an individual is stomped and buried to the ground

@Sorain1

2 жыл бұрын

It's funny, but the coiner of the term 'Grimdark' bears out the need for the good guys to get wins in. The most widely popular stories in all of Warhammer 40k? Ciaphas Cain. A good man with a horribly warped self image, who gets wins and does the right thing no matter how much he denies his actual motive for doing it. The second most? Eisenhorn. A good man trying desperately to be good while facing the worst the setting has to offer, and struggling to remain a good person. He wins. Often not without costs and with terrible struggle. He makes sacrifices and second guesses his decisions. But the reader, if they could speak with him? Would reassure him he hasn't crossed the line, that he's still good, because he keeps worrying about if he has crossed it.

@daviouscram2101

2 жыл бұрын

I had a similar conversation with my philosophy teacher. About the cyclical nature of history and people on a morality. My response was you choose to rise above it all. You chose to not do as everyone else. You choose to be a good person and you break free from the wheel of repeating events. You overcome the fear that binds people to do evil and be morally corruptible. And with this you perish because you've overcome the fear of death and have risen above all others. The lesson is complete and hopefully you found God along the way.

@nickthepick8043

2 жыл бұрын

It's good to know that some people still understand this. It's something I want to capture and prove otherwise in my graphic novel project.

@daviouscram2101

2 жыл бұрын

@@nickthepick8043 I was 25 at the time and I assure you almost no-one has thought about or knows this. Even the professor hadn't thought of it. In his mind it was an inescapable cycle of events. Because the thought of someone dying/put their life on the line to remain a good person was inconceivable.

Guts, Arthur Morgan, Prince Zuko. That is all

this is the reason why the characters in lotr and the hobbit are top tier morally good characters especially how men are represented in this stories, men don’t hurt others or become violent when they get overwhelmed, men comfort each other, hug, cry, connect, form bonds and friendships, i also love how aragorn is a gentle person despite being being a ranger and ultimately a king, characters have priorities and personality despite being kind and heroic too.

@FEEonline

2 жыл бұрын

Aragorn is also quite competent and able to hold his own in a fight, but would prefer not to ever have to.

@ramenhunter3603

2 жыл бұрын

@@FEEonline yesss exactly, also thank you for the highlight and this video was magnificent and eye-opening

@alien777

Жыл бұрын

Unfortuned that is not real life, men to not act that way. But I would love it if they did

This whole video proves why Top Gun: Maverick is so insanely popular right now. People are getting tired of the dystopian dark worlds being lived in by morally questionable dark characters. We’ve seen it so much over the years that when we finally see a movie about morally good characters fighting the good fight for what’s right and get that happy ending it feels incredibly refreshing. It’s why a lot of movies (not all but a lot) from the 2000s and before have this aura of innocence surrounding it. The world has always been dark but the movies have helped give us a proper escape, but these days it’s like a lot show creators want to bring all the harshness of the world into our living rooms 24/7. The problem isn’t that shows and movie like this exist, the problem is that there an increasing number of these shows and movies like Top Gun: Maverick are getting few and far between.

@AvenEngineer

2 жыл бұрын

Keep in mind, the US military is ONLY involved in films over which they have editorial control. They're recruitment ads.

@lada8744

2 жыл бұрын

It was also why I really enjoyed a Denziel Washington action movie called the Equalizer. He was always a good person and never faltered from it. He took violent action when needed, but he was always a good person, even down to the fact that he didn’t swear and encouraged his co-workers not to swear. (Not that the movie avoided profanity from others), and would love to see more of that. And I say this as someone who loves villain protagonists. Though I also like when you can just admit and make the main character a bad person instead did a “morally grey” one.

@dhdhejehuwbs843

2 жыл бұрын

New top gun is navy propaganda

@pokeman5000

2 жыл бұрын

Not to get too political but recent events really called in some heavy handed propaganda in major media conglomerates and the entertainment industry. There are too many examples to really be blind to it and this moral relativism is a channel to "enlighten" their viewpoint is good and what they believe to be bad. Then factor in the HUGE drop off in television viewership from the sub 50 year old demographic. The people who invested and own these industries in order to perform social engineering have been pushing this crap through the pipeline. They don't care if it doesn't sell, they don't care if 90% of people hate it. As long as they can influence 10% of the millions that watch it. It's a success to them even if its a net loss.

@rumfordc

2 жыл бұрын

@@dhdhejehuwbs843 all movies are propaganda, at least top gun has a few good lessons.

Even as someone who really likes much darker stories, I would have to agree. Most modern dark films don't just depict flawed people in an awful world, but people who are downright evil, and they're the ones who we're supposed to root for. Hollywood seems to have forgotten that for a flawed character to work, they have to have strong redeeming qualities or a motivation anyone can understand, even if the actions taken are what we would consider to be too far. John Wick was a man emotionally destroyed by his years of work as a hitman, and we can understand to some extent what effect the amount of lives he's taken can have on someone. He then lost his only anchor, the only thing keeping him sane, his wife. Plenty of us can understand the pain of losing a loved one, and it's only compounded when they were someone you relied on for emotional support. He didn't just go on a murderous rampage because he hated the Russian mob. He did it because he had nothing left in his life but a desire for revenge against the people who had taken what little he did have left, and he didn't even care if he lived or died. He was never meant to be a good person, he was meant to be a broken, self destructive man who finds a reason to live by the end of the movie

@viktoriyaserebryakov2755

2 жыл бұрын

While reverence for heroes is important, so is empathising with bad characters. I like dark stories. So long as there's either A) at least a side character to serve as a positive example that the show is self aware of or B) the creation or cause of a villain we can empathise with. Empathising with people we're suppose to see as enemies is as equally important as glorifying those who would combat them, lest we pursue inevitable and cyclical conflict with those we can not agree with.

@stlouislord28

2 жыл бұрын

I liked the Joker movie overall but I do get worried by the comments I read where the people are actually happy he murders people like “that guy had it coming.”

@filmandfirearms

2 жыл бұрын

@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 Exactly my point. That's why Generation War is one of my favorite pieces of film ever. Not just because it's amazingly written with incredible acting and showing a side of the war we never see normally, but because most of the characters start out as avowed Nazis, and that becomes a huge point of conflict for them throughout the series. Wilhelm struggles with reconciling the Prussian military ideals his father raised him with, with the Nazi ideology his generation was surrounded by. Charlotte struggles with her duty as a nurse, being to help people, conflicting with her duties to the Reich, duties she once relished performing. There's also some interesting thematic elements in the characters. Julia, the Ukrainian Jew that that Charlotte ends up recruiting without knowing she's Jewish, is basically Charlotte's ideal self. She has a strong, loving family, she's selfless and will help the people who want her and her family dead, simply because they are people, too. A simple thing like that adds so much more weight to every decision made by both of them. Friedhelm is basically the distillation of the "just following orders" narrative, while Schneider is the polar opposite, a hardcore ideologue able to rationalize the murder of a child because she was probably Jewish. Wilhelm is meant to show what was likely the situation for the vast majority of German soldiers. He falls somewhere in the middle, between the two extremes of Friedhelm and Schneider. Viktor, the group's Jewish friend, also serves to break down the glorification of the partisans that fought the Nazis. They were fighting people worse than them, yes, but they were far from good people

@ddd09ish1

2 жыл бұрын

I forget what comic it was Some girl with horns She finds a plastic bag, and then proceeds to beat the crud out of a man working a register who had the same logo as the bag And I was just like How do I cheer for this person

@malbasedvalentine3210

2 жыл бұрын

Again all these beliefs come from our own selfish interpretation of what is good, and what is evil, which is why it’s going to clash with those who find your interpretations to be the opposite of theirs. Remember these films are written by people, and directed by people. These people have their own interpretation of what they deem “good”, and others will mock it by both this comment and video. You want your “good character”, you’re going to have make it yourself. Just don’t be surprised when you face backlash from the same level of beliefs you’ve displayed here.

This is why one of my favorite literary series is The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. The characters in there are often thrown through extremely dark times, but the payoff from it comes from watching them struggle and still-against all odds-still making the right choices and holding to their best selves. Of course, there are characters who fail, but that’s all part of the overall journey the story takes. Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.

@Ismael-kc3ry

2 жыл бұрын

Kaladin is one of my favorite characters of all time because of this. He’s just a straight up good man with some serious, very real mental health problems and almost too much empathy for his own good.

@Nexol13

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ismael-kc3ry I agree. He struggles with his burdens of severe depressive anxiety, survivor’s guilt, and racist/classist prejudices, but he’s still fundamentally a good man, no matter what his demons tell him. That’s ultimately why his keeping on keeping on is so inspiring: if someone so flawed and broken can rise up and keep going another day, then I know that I can, too.

@Ismael-kc3ry

2 жыл бұрын

@@Nexol13 absolutely. He not only inspires through his words, but his actions as well. It’s why he works and isn’t some obnoxious preachy perfect hero, he’s a guy who genuinely struggles not just in battle but with his own morals and finding what’s right, despite everything generally does the right thing. That’s inspiring, and it’s also pretty damn likeable and relatable for a lot of people.

Finally, this was trapped in my chest for a really long time, thanks for making a video about this topic and expressing beautifully what I always wanted to say to my friends

There are pleeenty of "morally ambiguous" characters that are also very boring. It's funny that all the youtube channels I watch for media reviews, from all over the political spectrum (such as FEE, Lily Orchard and the Critical Drinker) all come to the same conclusion: writers can't write good protagonists if they themselves are not good people to begin with.

@IceQueen975

2 жыл бұрын

"Writers cannot write good protagonists if they themselves are not good people to begin with." It's this. It's 10000% this.

@enterurnamehere27

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist yes but there are good ones too, just bcuz some are bad doesn't mean all of them or most of them are generally "bad" characters, at the end it's about the execution not about the actual concept itself

@Spinogrl2000

2 жыл бұрын

I hated the protagonist of Squid Games. I tried watching it but simply couldn't. Every time I seen him outside of one of the "games", I hated every moment he was on screen. It was like that feeling you get when someone is doing something incredibly stupid in a horror movie, and you want to tell them "don't do that, you fucking idiot", but it was constant. My point is, if he was actually a good guy I probably would have liked him, but he was a deadbeat dad that gambled his mom's money away. How am I supposed to give a shit what happens to him? If Walter White was a total piece of shit before his escapades, I never would have finished the show. Sometimes you actually NEED your protagonist to be morally upstanding for them to be able to be empathized with, I think.

@FolstrimHori

2 жыл бұрын

*COUGH* Hollywood is full of pedos! *COUGH*

@enterurnamehere27

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist why there should be that way tho?

Starting in the 1990s, there has been a trend towards darker "grittier" stories where everyone is morally grey, as this was seen to be more realistic and more intelligent storytelling. It's not, it's just as skewed as a 50s cowboy show with white hats vs black hats, or the comically-evil villains of an 80s cartoon. But I think over the last 5 or 10 years, writers in Hollywood have genuinely lost the understanding of what a hero *_is_* - now half of their protagonists either have a completely-flat character arc, or the origin story of a supervillain.

@kriegjaeger

2 жыл бұрын

I think another issue is the constant grind of pumping out movies and merchandise with the corporate model of avoiding risk and maximizing profits. Writers have become jaded and consumers have become nihilistic.

@Astolfo2001

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, the 1990s and 2000s also had their fair share of uplifting lighthearted optimistic fun films as well and a few of those still hold up to this very day. Cases in point: Rugrats in Paris, Shrek, Anastasia, and The Prince of Egypt.

@malbasedvalentine3210

2 жыл бұрын

So what’s your solution Russ? That every character come from a backstory of your average Joe? Wouldn’t that also be considered “boring”, by your own definition? Most humans like complexity, because humans are rather complex beings who all don’t share the same backstory. Now if you dislike stale character design, that’s one thing, but that depends on the creators to actually make their characters interesting, and not just some guy, who’s also a good person, with ethics, blah blah blah. What exactly is your interpretation of what makes a good person? Because not everyone will share the same beliefs bud.

@russwilliams4777

2 жыл бұрын

​@@malbasedvalentine3210 Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid? Darker and grittier is *_not_* more complex, it just appears that way to nihilist morons trying to justify their anger at- and hatred of- the world. The complexity comes from showing what a morally good character has to give up, the sacrifices, the hard choices to do what's _right_ rather than what's _easy_; or an evil character having to go beyond what they thought they were capable of doing when their scheme doesn't go to plan. You certainly don't write a *_hero_* as someone obsessed with grief/loss, or with a lust for power/money/revenge.

@malbasedvalentine3210

2 жыл бұрын

@@russwilliams4777 humans are morally grey people, only do civilizations create perceptions of what makes you good and others evil. I for one know this concept, but I personally don’t care to follow it to the T. I will still point out my perceived evil, because ultimately I want to win so my vision of progression takes fold.

This is why it's such a loss that high school kids never read The Classics in literature. They don't understand the importance literary stories of history or Philosophy.

@the9970

7 ай бұрын

What do you consider to be those?

Goodness isn't boring. It's difficult. It takes effort. That's why Hollywood writers don't like it, because they feel entitled to have everything they want served on a plate to them with no effort. A nihilistic world where evil people prey on good is the ideal playground for these nasty people. They also value cheap shocks and think that having the Bad Guy Win all of the time is a good way to establish their artistic credentials. Unfortunately, having the bad guys always win is a good way to induce audience apathy, and have them turn elsewhere for their entertainment. No one gets shocked by the bad guy winning or by the entire cast being assholes if every show does it all of the time.

This is an accurate observation. Sometimes we miss the point of Evil characters because we respect them to much. They become the interesting ones, The way to fix this: Right better characters who have good morals, not uninteresting slapdicks.

@napalmsticks6494

2 жыл бұрын

listen in life every person has a sob story to tell you, something that makes you pity them, even the worst people, humans are prone to this. all of the things this guy says are bullshit, you dont have to dig very far into psychology to find that out. but, if you would like there is a series called generation kill, it is about soldiers in the Iraq war, it is very realistic and portrays what people in such environments actually do, so if you find that you think the soldiers are assholes you will know you have a very naive look on humans and cant tolerate ACTUAL people.

@federalcasemaker

2 жыл бұрын

Or they could make the protagonists equals to the hero, or sidegrades, having abilities the villain doesn't

@cyborgchicken3502

2 жыл бұрын

Everybody respects and praises the villain until they become their victim, we even see this in real life history, people praise the revolutionaries as heroes, even going so far as excusing their brutality against the opposition, until the revolutionaries come to power and become dictators....this happened to Leon Trotsky, he passionately defended the brutality of the Bolsheviks in the second Russian Revolution, defended the systematic oppression of the Soviet Union even praising them, until they decided to paint a target on his back...it's one thing to admire the philosophical ideas of villains, even to somewhat understand them and relate to them, but to go as far as to say "they were right" or "Thanos was a hero"...yeah if Thanos was real, I doubt those people would be singing the same song especially if his actions directly affected their lives....you saw this with the pandemic as well, prior to the pandemic people were saying "we need a new plague, there's too many humans, humans are a disease" well the plague came, and those exact same people feared for their lives.

@federalcasemaker

2 жыл бұрын

@@cyborgchicken3502 y'know what would be an ironic end? if said villains suffered the exact same way they made others suffered, and complained or cried for help about it

@cyborgchicken3502

2 жыл бұрын

@@federalcasemaker I think you missed the point of my comment but you are right though

Audiences: "Thanos was right, we all deserve to die -- so long as it's not me" "Life is horrible, death is a welcome release" "The world is a horrible place, humanity is irredeemable" "Good people are boring" "No one is morally good, all of us will do the same bad things under the same conditions" "The world is too complicated for standards" "Good and bad don't really exist, anyways" "Nothing matters" God: "Hi, kids....so...how's that 'new secular enlightenment' going?"

@agsilverradio2225

2 жыл бұрын

Good one! Though, I think God would partially agree with the 3rd to last one, that humans are not inherently good.

@tfly999

2 жыл бұрын

@@agsilverradio2225 'Partially agree' works just fine, since the 3rd one isn't about inherent goodness, but 'irredeemable'. God definitely doesn't think that about people. Inherently, all people are fallen, flawed, but everyone has the possibility of being redeemed. Well, maybe. We hope.

@viktoriyaserebryakov2755

2 жыл бұрын

I don't disagree with all of those. You can argue that we're all inherently bad in a way. I just don't think most people actually know how to handle that realisation. The pursuit of perfection is not something we're suppose to achieve. It's not something we're supposed to give up on either. We see enough what happens when people refuse to believe they have a single bad bone in their body.

@shinHis3

2 жыл бұрын

@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 I think you meant "perfection" isn't something we're supposed to achieve, not "pursuit of perfection". Otherwise I agree. I'm not American, but this makes me think of the "pursuit of happiness" in the American constitution (I think? Maybe some other document?). Those people know whats up w the human condition. They're poets. Edit: forgot a word.

@hamzahharis2238

2 жыл бұрын

NOT GOOD AT ALL!! But thanks for asking.

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer or the baker that we expect to eat our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

I don't know if you know much about Indian cinema but a life of criminality is glorified on a grand scale and we can see the kind of devastating impact it had on the personal conduct and behaviour of the youth.

@anonme_

7 ай бұрын

I suppose it's the same in any kind of modern cinema. Characters who aren't labelled immediately as "cringey" or "need-to-mature" usually have some (too many) bones in their closet. And those who are kind-hearted, happy, positive towards life are left jarred by the time the dust settles. It's like, we are incapable of preserving something good. I started watching Korean dramas a year ago and immediately realized that apart from handful of romantic-comedy dramas (or movies) the number of cheerful characters or characters with a positive outlook of people around them (or society or life, in general) were near non-existent. Every character had to have a tear-jerking (and honestly, rather cliche) backstory. All of them went through some shit as a child or has something in their past that will eventually tear them apart when the truth is revealed. And that's what generally drives these stories. They were all so repetitive and boring, honestly, I correctly predicted the "twist" pretty much in every show I watched, doesn't matter what genre or what the storyline was. And they are mostly consumed (outside of Korea) by teenagers to young adults who watch these "dramas" for the most obvious of reasons-the pretty faces. I mean, just think back the last time one must have come across a person so fucked up emotionally, psychologically and try to picture what they looked like. That's not to say that people with trauma aren't beautiful but having to go through that much shit is bound to leave you either physically scarred or would be visible on your person some or other way. But I digress. God I hate how much negativity has been normalized, especially in movies/shows/music. I understand the world is shitty and brutal and hateful (I suppose) but if the reality is what I have to watch, I'd read a fucking newspaper.

Everytime I hear "good characters are borong" or "never struggle", I think of ruroni kenshin. A story about a man that was a former assassin in the Japanese Civil War that afterwards swore to never kill again, yet because it's his only means of causing change continues go fight. The tension in every fight, the inherent conflict is fascinating and proves both statements wrong.

@Team_ghost9503

2 жыл бұрын

I think of Spider-Man or Vash the Stampede, I also think those people who state such things just don’t look for the media containing such characters or simply ignore them.

@silverhawkscape2677

2 жыл бұрын

Batusai? Far as I know, he kept his promise of not killing again.

@universalspaceexpeditioner8259

2 жыл бұрын

@@silverhawkscape2677 Yes and he was based on a real Japanese man.

@GukGukNinja

2 жыл бұрын

Dororo

@PhoenixT70

2 жыл бұрын

I generally don't like good characters that never struggle, because that struggle is what makes them good.

This is why I like My Hero Academia, the characters have genuine moral compasses and the whole show is about how they sacrifice and struggle to live by that moral standard. The show has so many beautifully inspiring episodes

@christophermonteith2774

2 жыл бұрын

also morally grey. the heroes aren't all out and out good, and the villains aren't all out and out evil. could be better balanced maybe

@bradastra6111

2 жыл бұрын

@Elizabeth Bennett "The heroes work for a corrupt government but they're always portrayed as the greatest good. It makes no sense that the government and hero society, which is fundamentally corrupt and flawed, is never challenged by a less corrupt group and ideology. All groups that challenge them are written just corrupt enough that you have to side with the heroes. It's sending a bad message." this you said is a cultural diference, japan is a coletive society were the group is more important than the individual. therefore the govermment is always right in a moral frame of work. you has an outsider perceive to be wrong due to the focus in the your christian. even if you dont go to church or you may not even consider yourself a christian... it doesnt matter, cause the west is bluilt in a christian frame of work.

@razzy9172

2 жыл бұрын

It's only deku and mirio and All might and does it for selfless reasons and the ones that has a moral compass.

@joeyginise6051

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist Good ol' Talk no jutsu.

@bubblehead4270

2 жыл бұрын

@@bradastra6111 Japan is a unified culture, not a collective. Overall there’s no force into conformity as most Japanese understand societal implications of breaking cultural unity (given that they learn it as they grow up).

Nowadays entertainment is full of immorality.. and strangely it's a popular thing... I hope groups of people will act on toxic entertainments and make it wholesome

James Stewart in most of his movies was a "GOOD Character" who was also entertaining. He didn't bow to bullies and stood for the downtrodden.

@brgreg8725

9 ай бұрын

Great example!

I was lucky. I grew up in the era when "the hero's journey" was still important. One director every film student should be made to study is Clint Eastwood. Just mentioning three. The Outlaw Josey Wales, The Unforgiven, Gran Turino. All are hero's journeys from different life perspectives. Well written, well directed, well acted. So you can do an interesting movie with an actual protagonist. It doesn't have to be nihilistic.

@nuckygulliver9607

2 жыл бұрын

the Unforgiven is a deconstruction of the heroic tales of westerns that were done before. It was like anti western propaganda to the western when it was made. Part of the point was that there were no real heroes

@slevinchannel7589

2 жыл бұрын

@@nuckygulliver9607 GREAT Supplement to this video, cause it explains the reason why many look at Reality as if it's all dark: 'Our Popcoorn Dystopia' by 'Some More News'.

@knightoffailure1869

2 жыл бұрын

@@nuckygulliver9607 Yeah, Unforgiven is not a hero's journey, it's pretty much every grimdark thing this video is calling out. Clint hasn't exactly been a big believer in human goodness for a long time now, and that movie bugged me, because the characters weren't even realistically evil, they were more like going out of their way to cause the most pain and suffering possible, and the writers made sure that every death came with a laundry list of fear and regret, where realism would have most deaths pass by without last words at all. It's a similar thing with Game of Thrones. People write incredibly dark movies under the guise of "realism", when reality is almost never that dark, and that leads audiences to unquestioningly believe that humans are just that evil in reality. Even in the Holocaust, there were heroes, self-sacrifice, stoic deaths, faith, and little acts of kindness, and when you strip all of those little good things from humanity, it's not realism, it's misanthropy.

@davidford3115

2 жыл бұрын

@@knightoffailure1869 You seem to forget that Unforgiven is actually based on a real person who was an outlaw and had a hard life. To be true to the story requires acknowledging that life on the frontier was harsh, particularly when vigilantism was the norm rather than the exception. I will not comment on A Song of Fire and Ice (ie Game of Thrones for those who have not read the book it is based on) as I think the author lost his way since he hasn't even finished it. As for the Holocaust, yes we like to remember the good guys like Oscar Schindler or Chiune Sugihara. But they were the rare exception, not the norm. There is a reason why the list of Righteous among the Nations is a small group. By and large, the banality of evil as Hannah Ardent observed was the norm. And if anything, that callousness makes the acts of those righteous few that much brighter.

@knightoffailure1869

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidford3115 I'm sorry, but you are absolutely, rather offensively wrong about the Holocaust. Not only is the list of documented heroes in that situation incredibly long (there were whole networks of people smugglers, neighbors risking everything to protect their neighbors, not to mention the actual soldiers who liberated the camps), but there are countless anecdotes about the prisoners within the camps putting the lives of others ahead of their own, and even aside from actual actions, many held an indomitable sense of hope that carried them through to the end. Little acts of kindness, self-sacrifice, and simple hope, whether in a higher power, or simply for its own sake, are not rare. As for Unforgiven, it is not based on a true story, not sure where you got that from. It draws from some true stories, but to say it faithfully follows any of them to any meaningful degree is neither true, nor has it ever been claimed by Eastwood et al. It's a work of fiction, and while claiming to be realistic, it makes a conscious choice to go grim-dark, in some ways actively forgoing realism in order to portray the world as senseless and cruel. I've read plenty of actual western outlaw stories, and frankly none of them are as depressing as Unforgiven, because reality isn't grimdark. The American frontier was a place of violence, brutality, treachery, vice, skill, faith, loyalty, beauty, opportunity, love, hope, dreams, and innovations. The choice to focus only on the negative aspects, when the entire breadth of human vice and virtue was on prominent display, is deliberate and subversive, not honest, as you claim. It's just as editorial and moralizing as the idealized western of yore, but made into a cautionary tale of what not to do, rather than a heroic tale of what is good to do. Not sure why you tried to correct me to A Song of Ice and Fire, when I was talking about Game of Thrones, the TV show, specifically (I suspect you just like correcting people, because there really wasn't any other reason to do so). I've read the ASOIAF books, and they don't have nearly as big a problem with grim-darkness, nor do they have as much reach among the general public, many of whom now believe that real medieval times were filled to the brim with brother-sister incest, sibling murder, completely unscrupulous leaders, and child killing, because they cannot separate grimdark fantasy from historical fact, which as a rule resembles ordinary reality, in all its shades of gray, and not some idealized black or white. Frankly, you sound like someone who gets most of their history from movies. Try reading some firsthand accounts of any of these events. I think it'll be eye-opening how much more human and less grimdark the people of our past really were than you seem to assume. Little acts of kindness and love are speckled across all of human history, even if Hollywood doesn't feel like it's thematically appropriate to include them in their grand tales of heroes and villains and rise and ruin.

My favorite type of setting is "Noble Dark" or "World Half Full" A world with heroes that are morally good and strive to fix the world, and despite how dark and cruel or bad off the world is, still do what is right to try and make a difference. Even a "Knight in Sour Armor" ends up being fun, even if they're bitter about the world and soured about it, they still believe there's something worth fighting for, that a better world is possible, instead of merely being in it for themselves or falling to the dark and wanting to just be the bigger boot stomping around.

@elkirrun3487

2 жыл бұрын

probably berserk could fit in that description

@cdubsb3831

2 жыл бұрын

I like that where the hero and villains are trying to do what they think is best but have different perspectives on how to navigate in a harsh world.

@hello-gx6oi

2 жыл бұрын

Berserk The world is very dark but damn there are many wholesome and lighthearted moments

@andrewryan4417

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, these terms sound familiar. I don't suppose you also read the pages of TVTropes to an unhealthy degree too?

@katlicks

2 жыл бұрын

@@andrewryan4417 Yes, but I initially got into it from WH40K and seeing the Grimdark/Noblebright discussions on /tg/ and /v/ before finding the TVTRopes pages, in which I gleaned the terms "World Half Full" and ":Knight In Sour Armor" for the purpose of conveying it in a way one can read more and get examples easily. Love TVTropes.

Arthur Morgan is one of the best characters in gaming because you can see his redemption unfold naturally, he goes from a stone cold killer to a good man who goes out of his way to help those he cares about, and in the end sacrifices himself so John can escape, it’s a tragic but amazing story, and if you choose the high honor ending his death is less tragic and more bittersweet

@benderthepirate

Жыл бұрын

Love Arthur Morgan,

@amimim69

11 ай бұрын

Loved Arthur Morgan but I don't think he became a good character.. His redemption came after knowing he is going die soon...he gave up his life but he really hadn't a life that long or worth living for.. Its very morally gray..

@joesr31

9 ай бұрын

Not sure how you played your arthur but mine was far from good. He does good things sometimes, but he also dragged lots of innocent people for hours on horseback just for the fun of it

A great example of a morally good character is in Willy wonka and the chocolate factory. Charlie is innocent. Moral, and not complex. You know his wants. His dreams, right after the first song, and you only get to know more by the time he goes home. By the time they get to the factory. You understand everything about Charlie. Poor, hungry, full of dreams, but yet. Humble. Never steals. Doesn’t cheat. He’s still morally good even after drinking fizzy lifting drinks. It was tempting, exciting. Neither grandpa joe nor Charlie knew of the consequences. And once they learned. Became even better people. Making mistakes doesn’t make someone morally bad. It’s what the character thinks of his consequences. And actions. Makes them morally good or bad. In the end. Charlie is denied the prize, but I’m one final act of good deed. He returns the gobstopper to wonka. No words nothing to ask for. As he leaves wonka is overtook by this good act. This final test nobody knew about was answered and won. Wonka immediately wastes no time to see Charlie for who he always knew him to be. A good child. With morals, and deeds that’s surpassed the other children. I’ve always loved wonka and Charlie. Their chemistry in those final moments was almost like the father Charlie never had. Which is interesting to, considering in the 1971 version Charlie’s dad has past away. That’s all

@marcdimartino9118

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for writing this. I think this very meaningful theme can be overlooked due to all the whimsy the film provides. Thanks for highlighting it.

@alien777

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. And then snowpearcer is the Sequel. There is great Video about this theory. Real fun, and a the points are not bonkas, like exoected.

Spiderman is one of my favorite moral characters. He's talented, powerful and good but he's constantly losing. This is because he makes the moral, harder choice. it hurts initially but he makes his world better and he has his moral principle to stand by at the end of the day.

@nont18411

2 жыл бұрын

He is constantly losing because Marvel writers have a fetish to make his life a torture porn. They think that Peter being mature and facing new challenge in his life as a successful person and a family man “isn’t interesting enough” so they keep torturing him. That’s why we got ridiculous issues like One More Day, Gwen getting raped by Green Goblin who possessed Peter’s body, Peter killing MJ with his radioactive semen or MJ cheating on Peter. They can’t help themselves in making Peter miserable. What’s the point in writing a superhero comic if the hero always loses and the villains always win? What moral message will the audience get from this?

@williamfinch9858

2 жыл бұрын

@@nont18411 "What’s the point in writing a superhero comic if the hero always loses and the villains always win? What moral message will the audience get from this?" To teach people how to respond to failure. I think you can have a long running series in which the hero rarely wins. I think Charlie Brown is like that.

@npcimknot958

2 жыл бұрын

Peter Parker is just a guy that wanted to help. There is no other spiderman without Peter Parker who is still the most popular.

@nont18411

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamfinch9858 Except that Spider-Man always loses. If the point of the story is to inspired people, at least the writer needs to show the benefits from doing good, not just showing the punishment from it.

@williamfinch9858

2 жыл бұрын

@@nont18411 It does not matter whether or not there are benefits from doing good. A good deed should be it's own reward.

As an old shadowrunner i can tell you most of these morally questionable characters simply arent. They arent questionable they are villian protagonists. You have to be heroic to be a hero.

Super Man. My favorite comic character of all time. No one has really known how to write him for decades. For me it's never been about how powerful he is and that he can do anything. It's been that he IS so powerful yet never compromises his morality.

@zarach9459

Жыл бұрын

Me too, Superman is not only powerful, he is compassionate, honest and noble, so much so that he doesn't seem human, that was exploited very well in Superman III when he had to face himself. But there are people who hate it because it is not Super Politically Correct, they would like to deconstruct it, I will tell you that at the Polytechnic University of Catalonia there is a science fiction story contest annually that is later published in a volume, the UPC Anthologies , in one of those anthologies there was a depressing and sinister account of Superman, now a private detective after falling from grace by killing a man, in reality the man was a pedophile and his last victim is in the same room after being abused, Superman gets really angry and uses too much force, after that he becomes a private detective enduring hatred and prejudice about him, he is hired by a pharmaceutical company to investigate a very strange murder, which seems to have been committed by someone super powerful like himself, In the end it is revealed that everything is related to him, the pharmaceutical scientists had been studying him for a long time and one of them makes him see that he should not exist, he tells him that they wondered for months if the color of his eyes was related to his powers and they fell into account that his entire origin story was ridiculous, he is Caucasian, if he had fallen in Africa or Asia he would have been treated like a bug weird, the fact that a couple of childless farmers found him is absurdly convenient, the answer is devastating, he is not from another planet, he is not a real living being, he is the creation of unknown entities that made him in the image and likeness of the humans to mix with humanity for unknown purposes....

@eastsidemuu

8 ай бұрын

Except in "injustice " 😅

@K1ng1995

Ай бұрын

​@@eastsidemuu Plus Kingdom Come

I don't care as long as a piece of media is good written lol

I've always liked the dyed in the wool hero types in stories. Guys like Captain America, Superman, Jon Snow, Luke Skywalker, etc I think people dismissing these characters as 'boring' have forgotten how to understand heroic storytelling. Nothing ever came easy to any of these characters. All people out of place or out of time and all alone but finding their inner Perceval and doing the right thing despite how easy it would be to simply turn to the dark side. When Batman kills the Joker, he's not Batman anymore. Thank you for this video. We need more of this.

@alexman378

2 жыл бұрын

I like how you tried to sneak in Jon Snow among those actually well written characters.

@feliperisseto9113

2 жыл бұрын

I think people who say moral characters are inherently boring have a morality problem. Heroes aways were a fundamental part of storytelling and humanity in general, and the fact there are people who hate the Idea of virtuous characters is a sign of the problems in our society.

@fruitiusmaximus925

2 жыл бұрын

They haven't "forgotten" anything. They hate and despise decency wherever they see it, because they hate themselves most of all. ... and they hate themselves because they are aware of their own moral inadequacy and cowardice. Whereas we see the most inspirational in a Perceval, they only see an accusing finger of judgement; but it is only their own finger pointing back at them.

@fbibarbie

2 жыл бұрын

a lot of morally good charecters in the way your talking are just absurdly powerful to compensate kind of mitigating the risk thing which makes them boring. Superman is just absurdly powerful and is boring to watch like oh gee I wonder who is gonna win or what superman will do when he fights his villains.

@jonathanmohr1171

2 жыл бұрын

@@fbibarbie The thing about superman, though, is that he can do whatever he wants. He could end all war, famine, global warming, but he doesn't force himself on the people. Superman is a great character because of the emotional, mental and moral dilemmas he goes through. Like in "All-star superman". He's dying, but still just keeps doing what always did despite his own problems. And in the end, he died. But he set an example.

As bleak as I believe our world is, we need stories about righteous heroes to inspire us. I remember the 2006 era of Bionicle novels I read as a kid. The heroes, the Inika, were morally good characters but what made them intriguing was their struggle to live up to the grand legacies of the heroes who came before them-- even dealing with inferiority complexes at times. This is the kind of internal conflict that can make "morally good" characters interesting.

@andrewkuebler4335

2 жыл бұрын

Never thought I'd see a Bionicle reference in a place like this, but I totally agree. And you may recall those characters were not perfect. They had their own flaws and they argued and they failed. The struggle to do good is interesting, and I'm starting to think those who don't find even a little joy in a piece of media unless someone is dying or suffering is either a psychopath or just a bitter a**hole.

@christopherkleiber2507

2 жыл бұрын

In my case, I remember something something similar; namely Hero Factory which had heroes that are very much like you described. Additionally, I have also remembered Bionicle's heroes, well before I started reading about the exploits of Menelaus and Odysseus.

@jpe1

2 жыл бұрын

I’m curious how old you are, that you think the world is so bleak. I grew up during the Cold War, with a father who fought in WWII, and I would not say the world today is bleak at all. Yes, there are a few people trying really hard to stay in power by “othering” minorities and spewing hatred, but it seems to me that overall this is a very positive time, especially compared to 50 years ago, with the specter of nuclear annihilation, or 90 years ago(when my dad was a kid) with the Great Depression and the threat of another world war,

@Mowglibaloo2

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@mastercraftmainframe

2 жыл бұрын

I loved that book series. My favorite character was Jaller, mainly because he wasn't hotheaded and foolish like his predecessors, but relied on his skills, his knowledge and his teammates. It was such a welcome change from the embittered, confused Vakama, and the boisterous, idiocy of Tahu. I also liked the villainous Piraka, and the fact that they essentially all enjoyed being villains--it made for a very fun and adventurous read!

This is spot on. Most shows today pander to the fantasy of ultimate "freedom" without any consequences by creating a nihilistic world where everyone is a selfish, shortsighted and animalistic bastard; and is rewarded for this behavior. Increasingly, these hyper-realistic "fictional" stories are set in the real world and showcase "realistic" characters - such that a young, impressionable mind may not be able to discern fact from fantasy and may end up believing that the amoral values so gleefully paraded and embraced in the content they consume are really a reflection of the state of the world they live in. This would (and has to some degree) in turn create a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

The show "Person of Interest" is an excellent example of a very compelling show about good people doing good things in the face of incredible odds

@K1ng1995

4 ай бұрын

I'd like you to watch the movie "My Sisters Keeper"

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

@matityaloran9157

2 жыл бұрын

Isaiah

I'd call the abundance of "morally gray" shows with lots of edge, gratuitous violence, etc. is a sort of "reverse escapism". People now, at least in the West, live such risk-free and privileged lives that they wish to be transported to a more brutal world through fiction, as their lives have lost most of their purpose.

@Shadow25720

2 жыл бұрын

I think, we had over the last decades too many good characters who where just very naive and wouldn't have survived 5 minutes without plot armor. That's really just boring to watch, because it's an absolute naive and unrealistic fantasy. I would like to see more morally gray and complex characters who are still good People like Tyrion Lannister from game of thrones, but instead the new "heros" are basically an adult version of King Joffrey.

@paulleakeii6388

2 жыл бұрын

@@Shadow25720 Human beings seem to typically adhere to black and white extremes and polar opposites even when it causes unnecessary issues.

@viktoriyaserebryakov2755

2 жыл бұрын

Most of those morally grey stories aren't even grey. They're just black. That's their problem.

@KnuckleHunkybuck

2 жыл бұрын

That's a very interesting and insightful perspective. I think you might've hit the nail on the head with this one.

@christianbjorck816

2 жыл бұрын

@@Shadow25720 Tyrion had loads of plot armor though.

I love this! I think there’s already a lot of content out there that’s dark and heavy and it’s getting harder to find stories that are light-hearted, hopeful, funny and inspiring. We definitely need more of that in our lives.

5:30 Hollywood can't create stories about morally good characters because it forgot what is morality or good.

Just like someone of mediocre intellect will have a hard time writing the story or dialogue of a genius, someone who is not a very moral person themselves will have a hard time writing truly good and moral characters. I too, at best, can only write about the person that I wish myself to be...

@fosphor8920

2 жыл бұрын

Don't underestimate creativity bro, including your own

@NewLenses

2 жыл бұрын

@@fosphor8920 He said "have a hard time", not that it can't be done.

@fosphor8920

2 жыл бұрын

@@NewLenses okay? I can read his comment myself... why did you reply to me?

@slevinchannel7589

2 жыл бұрын

@@fosphor8920 GREAT Supplement to this video, cause it explains the reason why many look at Reality as if it's all dark: 'Our Popcorn Dystopia' by 'Some More News'.

@Jarod-vg9wq

2 жыл бұрын

Don give up dude on your writing or being the person you want to be.

My 3yo son starts every new show with "is he a good guy" or "is he a bad guy" question because even a child knows some things matter.

@TheZebbga

2 жыл бұрын

To be honest, a lot of kids just want a clear cut answer of the good guy and the bad guy. When rewatching stuff I liked as a kid as an adult I come to realise how I never usually understood why the bad guys were evil, I just knew they were and needed to be stopped. You don't question if the bad guy has a point or if the good guy is flawed. There is something nice about the simplicity of it.

@ryonalionthunder

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry but… what shows is a 3yo watching that star a bad guy?

@TheZebbga

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryonalionthunder The impression I got was he was talking about just any character in the show as they are too young to know a maon character is a main character. But I am just guessing.

Remember, art is the truest reflection of soul and society

@astrahcat1212

Жыл бұрын

That's what I think also about it. If people didn't gravitate to these shows in the first place, the corporate people wouldn't be making them. Hollywood just wants to make money and that's it, they're complete prostitutes.

Glorification of a character is extremely personal. No one is writing these stories with horrible events and terrible people knowing they will be glorified. It's a personal choice.

I'm sick and tired of hearing excuses for how some villain is the way they are because they're a victim of society. Everything is systemic in these stories and to the people who enjoy them, and it's positively myopic. Bring back personal choice and responsibility.

@patricklewis9787

2 жыл бұрын

My theory on this mindset is that people call these characters “relatable” or “deep” because it’s easier to say the whole world made you bad instead of looking at yourself and saying that you can change

@easttowest7839

2 жыл бұрын

@@patricklewis9787 relating to villains absolves a person of their own shortcomings while feeling like an intellectual

@r.w.chambers9969

2 жыл бұрын

@@easttowest7839 dude, there are horrible people who idolize villains purely out of blind emotional worship

@edorasmarauder5761

2 жыл бұрын

@THE SICK SOECITY Speak of the devil.

@patricklewis9787

2 жыл бұрын

@THE SICK SOECITY says the guy who can’t spell Society right unless Soecity is something else😹.

Frickin' nailed it. I said as much months ago as a comment on the arcane video: I'm legitimately bored of morally grey characters. They're way overplayed, unrealistic, and teach an unhealthy worldview. When everything is grey, there's no contrast! Any visual artist worth a dang knows how important contrast is to making a visually interesting piece. Why can't hollywood understand that the same is true of writing and of character? There are so many "good-guy doing good things" scenarios hollywood won't explore because they think we don't want it. That's simply untrue.

@zatchbell5678

2 жыл бұрын

I think it's more than that they think we don't want it, at the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I think Hollywood has, for some time now, been deliberate in the overarching messages and themes they are trying to champion in their films. Good people who understand right and wrong are inherently harder to boss around and manipulate than people who are in it only for themselves.

@Neogears1312

2 жыл бұрын

I only care when it’s the villain. Morally grey characters are still fun because it’s interesting to see where a person draws a line when consistently written. Villains though are always “Saddam Stalin von hitlerstein ethnically cleansed a nation…but his dad hit him and he has generic mental health issues 😢.” Because somehow society has equated that if sad things happen to someone them choosing to be absurdly evil makes it morally ambivalent.

@howdoyoudo5949

2 жыл бұрын

They're way overplayed, unrealistic, and teach an unhealthy worldview. What about 'Gray' characters are unrealistic? There have been multiple IRL people who were gray, read any Western Biography. You got robbers becoming lawmen in other states; valued in their community but still marauding in a county a few miles away.

@ryanthereaper5032

2 жыл бұрын

@@zatchbell5678 what I've never met a person who is easy to manipulate and boss around that is bad never like you got it the opposite way morally good people you can manipulate them far easier because you can use there moral code against them believe it or not it's easier to break someone who has morals it isn't like movies or TV shows where the good guy will not change no matter what they can be broken

@zatchbell5678

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryanthereaper5032 you are very naïve

There is a whole culture war going on with battles in many different categories. 1. In fine arts emotions and background stories supersede technical mastery 2. Moral relativism has taken hold of our society where evil actions are legitimized by the thought that right and wrong are entirely in the eye of the beholder 3. Affirmative action promotes unskilled people to positions, they have no business being in 4. Diversity of appearance is valued rather than diversity of thought 5. Ideological extremists only favor those who are part of the same ideology and proclaim so loudly 6. The idea that adults need to be sheltered not only from the consequences of their actions, but also any and all disagreeing opinions (e.g. "triggered") 7. Academia substituting scientific rigor and empirical data in favor of promoting ideological viewpoints And this list goes on and on... Frankly it would be surprising if anything other than trash survived this self reinforcing death spiral.

@teshoun6791

2 жыл бұрын

So are you saying all of this are bad? How so?

@EM-wo6wf

2 жыл бұрын

@@teshoun6791 Explain how it’s good?

@MALICEM12

2 жыл бұрын

People will naturally gravitate towards those who believe the same things they do, it's naive to suggest otherwise. It's not just the "extremists" who do that. The center just has an obsession of being the "impartial reasonable guy in the middle".

@GM-kp7yw

Жыл бұрын

Plus lots of post-modern bullshittery, which is often a justification to do whatever the F we want without any respect to any rules,principles,laws, and people

@the9970

7 ай бұрын

To clarify you think that right and wrong are not in the eye of the beholder? So then who decides as such? Or is it objective to you?

Evil characters can be liked because they have valid motivations, but a show should always express why their believes are wrong and have them face consequences

CS Lewis once said: “Since it is so likely that (children) will meet cruel enemies, let them at least have heard of brave knights and heroic courage. Otherwise you are making their destiny not brighter but darker.” That sums up the core message of this video, and I'm very glad you decided to make it. I once had to present a speech about moral relativism in the media for a college class, and I ended up speaking far too much simply because I had so many examples I felt that I needed to flesh out and explain. I tried to communicate my appreciation for certain characters like Luke Skywalker (pre 2010s), Silver Surfer, Optimus Prime, Spider-Man, Captain America, Little Lord Fauntleroy, Caesar (from Planet of the Apes), Aragorn, Black Bolt, and others. They were interesting. More than that, they were inspirational. One of the reasons I liked these characters is because they all exemplified values or attitudes which reminded me of my parents. Nowadays, I don't see much of my parents on TV. My favorite Arcane character turned out to be Vander. He was a broken man who seemed to be bearing the responsibility of protecting his people, even though he had done awful things in the past. I appreciated the way his character was written, even if he was only used as a short-lived plot device for everyone else's development. A solution to this moral deficiency might be to train young people in these morals (which, of course, should start at home, but what do I know about the modern home?) and then encourage them to create. Create movies, books, art, whatever they can do to bring more real good into the world, even if it goes nowhere. My friends and I have had several lengthy conversations about this topic (similar to the lengthy essay I'm typing into the comments) and we feel like we should do some kind of animating or story-writing ourselves, even if it isn't very much. Can't change much by talking, right? Thanks for the video.

@dislikereporter2271

2 жыл бұрын

Please, please read or watch the manga/anime Vinland Saga, I have a feeling you will love it a lot.

@idunno7516

2 жыл бұрын

@@dislikereporter2271 Really? Why's that? I'm curious.

@dislikereporter2271

2 жыл бұрын

@@idunno7516 The main character goes through a heavy and emotional journey from a naive boy, to a rage filled child soldier and eventually growing into a mature adult who finally understands war, being very similar to Vander. It's a series about Vikings and I could never do it justice in a comment section, but it has some of the greatest character writing and development I have seen in years. I urge you to at least give it a shot.

@idunno7516

2 жыл бұрын

@@dislikereporter2271 I'm always glad to hear about good stories. I'll watch it. Thanks for the tip!

@ayrtonjoga

2 жыл бұрын

This video and comment made me really appreciate how I grew up watching and playing morally good characters like Spider-Man and Sonic, and then watched more morally ambiguous stuff like Breaking Bad when I got older Now I'm someone who hopes for the best but can also expect for the worst, and I think that's a fine way to balance things out since how pessimistic and nihilistic the world is now

This is why My Name Is Earl will always be one of my favorite shows. It's a comedy about a felon who finds out about Karma and realizes his life sucks because of all the bad things he did, so he makes a list of all his misdeeds and tries to make up for them, one by one.

@BishopWalters12

2 жыл бұрын

Great show.

As someone with an intense moral compass I love this video. I just want more moral characters to root for.

@Grayest_Fox

2 жыл бұрын

Hey, I'm curious about that. Why do you have such a strong moral compass? Hahah

@daveanthony7431

2 жыл бұрын

@@Grayest_Fox everyone has a moral imperative, it is just our friend here listens to it more than others.

@Test-tu9mb

2 жыл бұрын

@@Grayest_Fox Experiences

Honestly, I think this is why so many new "adaptations" of older media fail. They lost their morals somewhere along the way.

bad characters can be interesting and good characters can be interesting. it takes talent to do either. and hollywood is a black hole of talent

@spets234

2 жыл бұрын

Bad characters are meant to highlight the opposite of good, to be a problem, to have someone to blame for all the problems. The problem isn't the fact that bad characters exist. They can really enhance storytelling but it's problematic when the villains become shown as heros without any actual transformation.

Invincible is also a great example of a Morally Good character in a dark story.

I can’t help but think about one (or two) of my favourite video game characters: Coach and Ellis from Left 4 Dead 2. Both Coach and Ellis bounce off of each other’s positivity, not just because they’re southern neighbours, but because they are dragged into a desperate situation where any wrong move can get the entire group killed. Despite the grim and seemingly hopeless situation the two (technically four) find themselves in, they learn to look out for each other, compliment each other occasionally and generally have fun along the road to survival. Are they perfect? No, not really. Even the best can fall victim to the situation and their traits. Ellis’ blind naivety can get people’s nerves riled up and could make some dumb mistakes, while Coach’s approach to being a leader isn’t exactly like being a certain Vietnam War Veteran’s way of thinking, but they try. They really try their best. In a world of negativity, death and the subsequent fall of humanity, it’s a good thing to know that there are still some good people out there, willing to help any chance they can get. “Stay positive.” - Coach, L4D2

Some people live so much drama and toxicity that they think that's all there is.

"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" -Paarthurnax, the Old One (The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim)

@HenryBenedictUSA

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/e6aOrqmrntbNfc4.html since you mentioned Skyrim I had to post 😆

@t.k.5844

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist I now, I just thought it was a good quote from a character who's a good example of an interesting morally good character.

@jacobhargiss3839

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist well, some can be.

@jacobhargiss3839

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist I agree, people are also not supposed to be deconstructed to the point when they embrace evil either, but they do.

@jacobhargiss3839

2 жыл бұрын

@Ethnic Nationalist I was talking about how actual people get to the point where they become evil.

In simple terms you are what you consume mentally; physically ; emotionally consume positive things You become positive Consume negative things and you become negative.

You don't want a morally right character, you want a hero. Because if you truly wanted to see well-written characters with good morality, you wouldn't be disliking the characters of Arcane for their "lack" of it.

I just have to say as sort of a counter argument, yes morally good characters can be well written, but I enjoy watching Tony Stark’s journey from a narcissist playboy to a selfless hero more than I enjoy watching Steve Rogers stay morally good through thick and thin. It makes me feel like as a flawed person (as we all are) that I can keep working at myself to become a better person. Edit: Just to clarify, I didn't say Steve was uninteresting, but in my personal taste I found Tony's arc more entertaining BECAUSE he was flawed to begin with. Also, technically Tony might have had good in him to start, but it doesn't negate that we was acting like a bad person to start.

@unknowninfinium4353

2 жыл бұрын

I saw a comment that went like this: The most selfish guy turned out to be the most selfless (Iron Man) And the most selfless guy turned out to be the most Selfish guy (Capt)

@cakecrumb095

2 жыл бұрын

@@unknowninfinium4353 that’s interesting but really true if I think about it.

@paccawacca4069

2 жыл бұрын

Well, tony stark is still heroic. Just flawed. And Steve Rogers goes through his own character arc as well. He learns that just because something is lawful does not mean it is good. Steve is an interesting character. Just because he doesn't have some "fatal flaw" or whatever doesn't make him not interesting.

@coppermoth6069

2 жыл бұрын

How was captain America selfish?

@unknowninfinium4353

2 жыл бұрын

@@coppermoth6069 When the Accords was made he dint think once about civilian causality whatever his reasons be. When he heard from Tony that Tony was keeping Wanda he got all emotional cause he wanted to clap then cheeks. Second, in the end he went to the oast for his selfish desire to clap agent Carter cheeks. Third, he meber told Tony Bucky was the one behind his parents tragic encounter cause he wanted to clap Buckys cheeks. Fourth, he failed in clapping any cheeks

The morality I play video games with growing up has effected me in my adult life. I believed that helping other people would be the longer and more challenging route, but in the end was not only better for the other person but for me I kinda stopped watching tv after the age of breaking bad because I thought tho breaking bad was groundbreaking, other shows were using the bad guy lead for ratings and revenue and the interesting but evil lead was becoming over saturated

@TheFireFox36

2 жыл бұрын

Crazy being told that video games make people violent when there are stats for RPG games that show a large majority of people choose good options over evil ones. Personally I find it very hard to do "evil playthroughs".

I love Captain America for being a pure Hero. His upcoming and fight through all that and staying good. Its inspiring honestly. I think your video is talking about a very important problem which i always felt was there , but i couldnt put my finger on it. EDIT: And Aragorn of course.

@K1ng1995

Жыл бұрын

That being said though.... Steve Rogers does have his flaws

@lukayaroslav9914

Жыл бұрын

@@K1ng1995 Yeah, he's too self-righteous. He thinks that he is always right about everything.

@K1ng1995

Жыл бұрын

@@lukayaroslav9914 Exactly that's my issue with the host of Out of Frame, who is he to judge the people that have to fight day in day out for what little they have. Also go and look at some extreme forms of religion out there that rob women of their basic human rights in the name of said religion. Yes people can be good, peace and equality and harmony is something we all want, but no one in power is willing to sacrifice their excess.

@lukayaroslav9914

Жыл бұрын

@@K1ng1995 What? Why are you talking about Out of frame and religion mobs all of sudden?

I prefer the Yoko Taro approach to characters with a good heart: grind their hearts to fine dust. It's so cruel and heartbreaking but whenever their good nature gets to shine it does so beautifully. Caim's courage, Zero's sacrifice, Kaine's love and 9S's innocence.

While I disagree with a lot of points you have raised so far, I have to agree on one thing. This “””Morally Gray””” bullshit’s got to go. It is overdone, uninteresting and tiring. If all your characters are “morally gray”, you are left with the same gray slop instead of a beautiful picture drawn in ink.

@krustyknight2943

2 жыл бұрын

But you have the admit that human begins are complicated. There are few people who are unflinchingly good and unwavering in their moral standing

@justjoshua5759

2 жыл бұрын

@@brainderp808 that’s just bad writing. Not indicative of morally grey characters as a trope or writing device being overused and ineffective anymore

@JohnSmith-xf1zu

2 жыл бұрын

@@brainderp808 Really? I didn't get the vibe that they were trying to make her sympathetic or good in Multiverse of Madness. Seemed to me they were trying to do the Anti-Villain theme, someone who wants nice goals, such as motherhood, but uses ultimately bad or evil means to accomplish said goal. I can't really think of a time where they tried to say she was sympathetic. They just made her a person instead of a comic evil villain. That movie isn't great and suffers from dozens of other problems, but I think any sympathy for her is a product of our empathy for someone wanting motherhood, not because the movie forced us to be sympathetic towards her. At least, that's how I remember it.

@inversion9651

2 жыл бұрын

@@brainderp808 Exactly, It's ridiculous. It'sike the other characters don't matter.

@inversion9651

2 жыл бұрын

@@justjoshua5759 But the trope is still overused.

It's rather simple to explain. People are falling for the oldest sin in the book. Sloth. It takes 5 minutes to do irreparable evil, but it takes effort to be a good person or do a good deed or create something good. People are lazy to build up their character, so when they see characters that are similar to them they identify with them. Characters made by equally lazy people, mind you. And so it goes, down the ever shrinking spiral, until it reaches a singularity of evil.

@christophermonteith2774

2 жыл бұрын

isn't sloth one of the very last sins among the 7? like probably 4th or 5th? wouldn't it be pride, envy and wrath first?

@johnlucas2838

2 жыл бұрын

@@christophermonteith2774 Sloth is the most damning. Not to mention that Tristitia - Melancholy AKA Depression is folded into Sloth. Sure, Pride, Envy, and Wrath are predominantly active, Sloth is Passive.

This is why I look up to Kiryu Kazuma. He may have been dealt a shit hand in life and lived amongst criminals. But, he's a good man damn it.

This reminds me of the Witcher 3 where you have two options following Vesemir’s death you can drink with Ciri which is the wrong option or play in the snow to cheer her up which is the right. It’s better to find the good in life during hard times rather than sink in to misery.

Really FEE? Just because my room is filled with posters of characters who like to murder people, and I only go to costume parties dressed as villans like the joker, and every movie I've streamed in the past 10 years is about anti heros bucking the trends of society and doing the "wrong thing", and I only agree with news that tells me violent protestors are good people, and all my music is made by people who brag about having broken the law and is about commiting crime, doesnt mean I'm going to end up like a bad person. I dont need to see someone saying murder is wrong to know murder is wrong. Now excuse me while I go binge watch Dexter for the 12th time. So stunning and brave how he kills all those people.

@SirBlackReeds

2 жыл бұрын

You don't exactly make a good case for yourself.

@zatchbell5678

2 жыл бұрын

@@SirBlackReeds sarcasm, my friend.