the not received email , is a sellers trick , when youre driving the distance to see them , youre be less likely to turn around if they quote a high price as you allready gone through the trouble to go there , allso they can take the part "hostage" (as in if you dont pay you dont get the part back ) if they find sumting unexpected that makes it more expensive , its a dirty trick but i seen it happen to me twice have them quote you in writing the price for the actual repair and possible problems , maibe have them call in case the price increases above a certan treshold , allso make sure you have a second company doing clutchwork in case trhey realy try to fleece you

@brianluck84

4 жыл бұрын

This comment needs to be pinned to the top for all to see.

@Electromech

4 жыл бұрын

There might also be a slight chance that if you sent pictures they could be too big for their mail server to handle

To me, seeing how these machines work is even more fascinating than watching them at work. Great video

Love seeing the inner workings of the machine, especially when it's time for it's 70-year maintenance:) Those helical gears, all working together, is a thing of beauty.

Adam, I had my clutch done on my CY, just like yours, up here in Kentucky. Look at Practical Machinist Forum, "My 16CY Winter Project". There is several postings including contact information on clutch pad repair. You are correct, it is a spring issue. My CY has and Edgemont Clutch, a little different than yours. I had to replace my springs as well. Sourced mine from McMaster. Let me know if you need anything for your CY. Been there, done that. William.

@Watchyn_Yarwood

4 жыл бұрын

First time I've found someone sharing my name!

@williamgarrett2931

4 жыл бұрын

@@Watchyn_Yarwood Very cool! I'm from the Virgina Garretts. More recently, 1900's, Fentress County Tenn. Nice to see another Garrett!

Adam, Relining your clutch is a simple job. Knock out the rivets and the linings come off the steel. See if Monarch have new lining and rivet kit available. Then its a simple process to reinstall the linings. There are simple hand rivet press out there available that a hammer is used to stake the rivets. I personally have a rivet press for brake lining that will do this job. If Monarch Doesn't have the linin g any more then you will have a small problem of how to get ne lining. I have bought lining sheet material at Mc Master Carr and made some linings before with no problems. I should mention that my rivet press also allows me to drill and counter sink the rivets in the lining. Good luck on the clutch shop[ you have close to you.

Adam, after seen the stills at the end I’d suggest you make the time soon to have that clutch re-lined, it is really worn out. I used to do clutch linings when I was in the Army and I see there is an area where the lining is almost even with the head of a rivet, if that river has contact with the clutch plates you will need those too; and they may be very hard to come by. I’m guessing the needed linings may be 3/16”-5/16” thick when new. They’ll then need replacing another 100 years from now. Thanks for sharing.

I have a Monarch 61, and recently repairing issues with the clutch as well, long story short,...it was the springs,,,,I can also say with confidence, it looks like a prior owner replaced those Larger missing or broken springs with smaller diameter ones? I also have seen these types of clutches replaced with multi-puck design when circular material was not available,..also due to the asbestos issue,..ceramic was used in place of the original.

McMaster sells the friction material in sheets. I usually draw the shape I need in CAD, save as a DXF file and send it to my local water jet guy to get the frictions cut out. McMaster also sells the tubular brass rivets and the contact adhesive for bonding the material. It's not that difficult to do, I've redone the frictions on a lot of older equipment over the years.

Might be a bit obvious but if that clutch is original be careful with handling it as it may contain asbestos.

@MrHousedog

4 жыл бұрын

Not the best to deal with but damn good clutches

@blacklion79

4 жыл бұрын

asbestos is demonized. Yes, it is dangerous if you work with it on day-by-day basis without PPE, but amount of asbestos in such pads is safe to work with, if you will not mill it and inhale thus dust purposely.

@AccountSpace

4 жыл бұрын

@@blacklion79 I mill brake pads and yes I wear PPE and have also started to put an air filter by me for my coworker in the shop but I know dyno techs that have worked for years without proper ppe and haven't had problem even though the smoke

@MF175mp

4 жыл бұрын

@@blacklion79 basically operating of such clutch releases small amount of asbestos dust to your shop for you to breathe every time you use it, I don't know if that is enough to cause problems though but I'd rather not have asbestos in my clutches at all

@southern207hobbies

4 жыл бұрын

Asbestos is only dangerous if its loose and dry asbestos shingles are highly compressed so even broken its harmless ps I'm with a railroad historical society so I've been around tons of it that's been kept wet

Adam Reach out to monarch they can either supply you the springs or tell you the correct dimension. The they can rebuild the clutch too, or maybe send you replacement frictions for your clutch. As far as installing them you can do it, just clean up good even blast where they fit. Then add a good contact aheasive. Like 3M industrial, clamp and add rivets. It not hard to do. I done one myself. A few years ago. Good luck Randy

At 74 years I have worked on many, many clutches and break shoes in my life. I can tell you that your are dangerously close to the rivet head on your clutch.

Monarch still services these machines. I have a 1952 CK that i have had to source things for. My ole gal has the same clutch issue that just started a few weeks ago so this video is perfect! Never knew the grease zerk was behind the plate either......ooof. I live about 15 minutes from Sidney, Ohio where these machines were made too.....built to last!

@MrWaalkman

4 жыл бұрын

We had one in our machine shop in General Assembly at the old Saturn plant. I got a call to come down to the shop to take a look at the Monarch, and upon opening the control console door, I saw that the *Blue*print (now faded green) was dated from two weeks after I was born. :) It was cogging badly, and we traced it down to a bad rectifier tube for the field winding on the motor. We got it up and going by replacing the tube with a rectifier from one of our spare DC disconnects. The electricians were a bit disappointed at the quick repair. They told me that they thought that they had me that time. LOL! Great little lathe, the toolers loved it!

I just "rebuilt" the gearbox on my washing machine and believe it or not it looks just like the gears in your head stock-beautifully engineered, helical cut gears running in an oil bath. For some reason, after 15 years of reliable service, the gearbox wouldn't engage the spin cycle anymore although the agitation worked fine. So, like you are planning, I removed all the gears, thoroughly cleaned them with gasoline, then reassembled with fresh oil and now it runs like new again! In fact, judging from their condition, I have no doubts they will last another 15 years. They were that nice. Thanks for the video!

Gotta love the armchair mechanics... I bet Adam will get it figured out. He is just sharing the experience. Thanks for the video Adam. Keep on keep'n on.

I defiantly agree about the springs! One looks like it may even be hand wound, though more likely just a damaged wrong size; but also the friction material on the one side looks to have significant but old damage. In the video the crack looks like it was repaired with brass staples way back. I suspect that the original springs got dislodged and tore things up in there, and some one did a field repair to get it going with minimal down time. I'm assuming you have had this one for quite a while , so guess it held rather well all things considered.

Adam,replace the friction material,if it starts to break up it will cause the chuck to go round when you least expect it to.cheers from UK.

looking at the clutch in the video it looks like that the rivets are almost level with the clutch meterial you need to be carefull that you dont score the clutch mating faces other wise your will have to reface them once you renew the clutch just something to think about

Adam, on one side, that clutch friction plate appears to be worn down close to the heads of the rivets that hold it in place. You probably don't want to score the steel plates, so may I suggest that you replace it fairly soon? If it was in my motor-car it would definitely be replaced with that degree of wear, but of course the loads on a motor-car clutch are much greater than the loads on a lathe. Great work, as usual!

@JimWhitaker

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, no idiots holding it on a hill by slipping the clutch. 😁

Adam the clutch is worn out, look at the distance between the head of the rivet and the face of the clutch. Time to get it rebuilt before it starts gouging into the friction plate and the pressure plate. Watch out with the old material probably absotoes. Keep up the video's and hope you get fixed right buddy!

I would never put it back together without replacing the clutch material, unless I had a customer waiting.

If clutch products don't tell you, let a mechanic tell you. It needs to be replaced AND the surface plates that make contact with the clutch needs resurfaced as well. Otherwise its going to prematurely wear the new clutch.

Those clutch pads definitely looks like they need replacing, specially the outer one, on one side it looks pretty close to the rivet heads. Definitely looks like it’s wearing unevenly.

@chemech

4 жыл бұрын

That, and I'm seeing shiny spots on the wear facing, indicative of glazing, possibly due to excessive drag causing overheating. The uneven wear would tie-in to this idea, and the uneven mix of screws that came out of that clutch-pack cannot be providing balanced and equal compression/tension. It's a matter of scheduling the outage, but that facing has seen a lot of use, and should be removed and replaced.

I”m not a clutch expert but I do work on heavy equipment, some of your rivets look shiny from being rubbed on. The next maintenance down time would be a good time to have it worked on or replaced. Thanks for the great content!!!

A good little trick to square off the music wire springs is to heat up a block of metal in a vise till its bright red (Ex: 1"X 1"X 2"). Push the spring into the block of steel and the last coil will lay flat, perpendicular to the body of the spring. Works great every time! I used this method many many times as a toolmaker.

@KRosenChannel

4 жыл бұрын

A weird coincidence is a die maker at work showed me this trick just today.

That is a beautiful lathe. You have shown that lathe a lot of love over the years. Thanks for sharing your journey.

Thanks! I recently picked up a 1944 CK. My clutch is working fine at the moment but it is good to know how to service if needed in the future. You have been a tremendous help in general and your specific knowledge on the Monarch is a super bonus to me. Thanks again!

Love how clean you have your shop. You can tell that you’ve really put a lot of effort into maintaining your workplace. Looks great!

Man you crack me up. You say you would rather have professional do the clutch. Dude you are as professional as they come. Love to watch you work, great job and keep on with these awesome videos.

I really appreciate these types of videos. I have a 14C which I now know to be a 14CY 1941 Vintage that I'm going to put back in operation. I have alot to learn about but one thing that is clear to me is the craftsmanship and know-how that went into it. The quality of these lathes is just amazing to me as a hobby machinist. I have no idea what I need a lathe that big for, but I know it will be able to do pretty much anything I ever want to use it for. :)

I'm buying an old 15x24" Monarch on Thursday hurry up on that next video I'm going to need it. Thanks for the content!

That headstock gearbox is a thing of beauty. Good luck getting the clutch sorted, would love to see some more videos of you turning projects on this machine.

I have learned more from you than my gd&t class for mechanical engineering. Love the content

Hi Adam, from looking at automotive clutches for 30 yrs. That Clutch is worn uneven(due to the springs). The rivets that you see should not be close to touching the plate. The solid ones(the high ones) are a wear indicator and the lows are to fasten) and they are brass or bronze to not damage the plate too much and create noise. Your gut feeling is right... you can go and change the springs and get the machine back up and running but know that it will work much better if you replace that brake material. With that said... The new springs might prevent that high brass/bronze rivet from touching the disc for a long time to come. I say do your research and plan on replacing in a year.

Adam Great video once again. That clutch plate needs replacing one of the brass rivet head already show signs of rubbing which means it will eventually score the drive plate if not replaced.

Been looking forward to this one! Love seeing maintenance done on these machines! And Adam, you just has such a good touch with repairing and maintaining machines. I really remember on the G+E when you got real mad at the last guy that was beating on something to get it apart and left his calling card on it. I think of that every time I go to take something apart and it is tough.

Awesome seeing inside the monarch. Thanks for sharing some maintenance with us. Always good to see how how things work.

@knusern666

4 жыл бұрын

Just like his video on the inside of the shaper, its interesting to see what makes these machines tick

I always loved working with older machines because they were just amazing to work with.

AB has the best way of explaining things.

Super interesting. Seeing the inside workings of the Monarch.

I love your videos. Such a wealth of knowledge and experience. I’d live to just hang out in your shop with you and soak up information. Keep up the awesome videos!

This video couldn't come at a better time! I am having the same issue with my 16CY.

Follow Brian Bloc’s example and call Monarch direct, and pay your contribution, that’s what keeps American companies in business. I’m as cheap as the next guy, but we’ve got to keep these American company’s in business!

@Abom79

4 жыл бұрын

Looks like a lot of guys here think I don’t know Monarch is still in business. For what it’s worth now, I’ve already had discussions with the folks at Monarch.

Ran a Monarch for over 35 years. Model CBB 96 in. C-C Ser no 26282 10-1944 vintage war finish. Had to change clutch springs years ago. Most were broken. Same problem with clutch hanging up. Had to dismantle entire gear head, long story. I was machinist mechanic for a large printing co.

Thanks Adam. I have a 1945 Colchester with the same problem. I feel brave enough to explore mine now.

That clutch plate has to be able to move on those two keys, one of which you found binding. That could have started the problem which caused the hub springs to break. Also after you clean everything reclean the clutch material with non clorinated automotive brake cleaner, it leaves no solvent residue. That clutch isn't much different than an automotive clutch.

Ooh, disassembling clutches... I was waiting for that horrible moment when there's a 'CLUNK!' and then a 'PYOINGGG!' as 36 tiny springs shoot across the workshop and bury themselves in the swarf bin...

Hi Adam nice video always like to see you taking care of your machines nice too see how the head stock runs looks like previous owners skip on regular maintenance those definitely needs replacing springs and the clutch thanks Adam!!!!

So many companies have contact email addresses that they *never* check. As someone who hates talking on the phone, this drives me nuts. Some companies don't think you're serious if you don't call them (and have said as much), which is a pretty ignorant old-school attitude, especially when considering accessibility.

@AlwayzPr0

4 жыл бұрын

I wish they knew how much business they were losing by doing that.

Lee Spring are a good company. I used them for many years, here in the UK, when I was working. Excellent range of products.

Well i just spent 5 minutes looking for part 2.... lol I have been back-watching most of your videos and only after looking at the date i found this is new hahaha. Great vid and i am looking forward to part 2. Stay safe

This is a very common clutch/brake setup, the key thing to remember is to adjust the linkage to set the cone brake first THEN rotate the clutch to the feel you want, they are supposed to " cam over" . With no tension on anything when engaged.

@Abom79 Really liking the high quality video The 1080p 60 FPS is extremely clear

This sounds like a petty complaint and I don't mean it that way, I love your videos. Your intro music is always only in one channel. More importantly, thanks for all your great content!

Mighty fine machine you got there Adam, you’ve taken well care of it. Good to see you keeping busy maintaining your fleet!

cool video, I love seeing the innerworkings of the machinery.

Hello from across the pond from Sweden. I once in my life worked with that kind of machines, something i liked a lot now the computer taken over. I just want to say I like your videos and the work you do!

That machine is beautiful, inside and out. Those springs certainly look like they could cause problems, in the eye of this naive observer. It would be great to get those clutch discs replaced while you have it apart. Perhaps you can find another company to do it. Thanks for the very thorough and thoughtful discussions and explanations.

Reminds me of a truck gearbox in there. I didn't appreciate how sophisticated these machines are!

Looking at the wear on some of those dogs, seems like some past operators didn't understand the difference between "drifting" and "engaging" a clutch. I notice you seem to prefer spinning the chuck by hand to align the dogs; they'll probably last forever that way. Also, yes, that friction material looks pretty thin. I'd expect that _somewhere_ there's a depth spec from the surface to the rivet heads. It also usually doesn't crack like that until it gets to the hairy limit. In an automotive application, looking like that, I'd just replace it on general principles. You're probably right about the springs. My bike had just one clutch spring (of six) break, and it just kept hanging up.

I have always had great results with Lee Spring. Their online configuration tool makes quick work of identifying replacements. There happens to be one of their facilities right in our neighborhood so availability is rarely a problem.

Fascinating to see how these machines work. How about a video to explain how, for example a shaper works. The glimpse inside your "new" Smith and Mills shaper just whetted my appetite.

Adam my man, another thing to look at while you're in there is that big bearing, the one that you greased. If it is bad (and it probably is, judging from the looks of it), you'll find that nobody makes it anymore. But, the Monarch people gave me the straight poop on fitting a self-aligning type bearing, normally used in a pillow block arrangement. It looks funny installed because of the eccentric inner race, but it works perfectly. Plus, it is a sealed type that doesn't require additional grease, which of course saves the clutch from grease contamination in the future. Any reputable friction shop can reline the friction plate. Btw, I've been told not to use the headstock oil (SAE 30 non-detergent motor oil) listed in the original Monarch manual you have there when you change it. Avoid any modern motor oils that might have additives not specifically meant for gear lube. 30 wt. synthetic grease works best, if you can find it. No STP, no Power Punch...no nuth'n.

@williamgarrett2931

4 жыл бұрын

The bearings in the clutch are typical taper bearings. Easily replaced, even Timkens are available. Keep the Timkenized true to its word...

@Azlehria

4 жыл бұрын

So something like an 80 or 85 weight GL-4 gear oil. Or, probably better, an AGMA #3.

Great video, it always fascinates me to know that such a versatile and complex machine was created without the benefit of computers. It was all designed with a pencil, papers, and maybe a slide rule.

@abom79 idk about US but in third world we actually fix clutches all the time when it is expensive and hard to find . it's rather easy and cheaper than buying a new disk and clutch . for knowing how much life you have on your clutch you look at the top of the on of the rivets till the surface of the pad itself . depending on your use every 1 mm is about 6 months . measure if on the highest rivet cuz that's the one that is gonno destroy your disk when the pad is finished

Adam, instead of guessing what size for the springs, just order them from Monarch directly. They have most parts for these lathes and this way you get the right size. It likely will cost the same as overordering from Lee springs, which are great but expensive. Also, ordering from Monarch helps keep them in business. Email Terrie at monarchlathes.parts@earthlink.net include your serial # in the email.

Always look forward to your videos. Your work ethic is phenomenal. When you put Booths machine on your logo I believe you are local to me. What a small world! Thanks for your work and time making these great videos.

Perfect timing....I just picked up a 1942 Monarch 12CK - The clutch makes a little noise from time to time - gotta get into it.....

I would have that clutch relined before putting it back together, it’s looking awful thin. You don’t want those rivets rubbing on that surface plate. Get it done and it will be good for another sixty years!

Nice video! having some trouble with the clutch on mine. After watching this planning on tearing into it. Thanks

It's pretty easy to set those brass rivets. If you can source some clutch/brake friction material of the right thickness, doing the replacement would make a nice video. You can practice setting a couple of rivets off camera so when you show us, you'll look like a pro ;-) Here's some example material: mcmaster part number 60895K23

Hi Adam. I live 15 min from a company that makes industrial brake linings. It is called Mars Industrial Brake, I have used them several times to make brake disks for obsolete overhead cranes. They are located in Mars Pennsylvania

Looking good, waiting for part 2 now. If you used a brass punch, that would have helped get that key out without you dinging it up.

Awesome video! A great chance to inside one of these babies! Appreciated!

this comment has nothing to do with your lathe clutch other than awesome work you do. Some time back you had a video about easy outs and showed the Blue Point/Rigid set and I have both sets complete and the are the best . enjoy your videos a lot.

Also, my Edgemont clutch has only three springs. Your clutch may take six. That is what seperates the clutch but you don't want overpower the camover on the clutch. Check the drawing on your manual. How many springs are listed.

Adam, the friction lining on that clutch is low buddy. An easy way to tell is how close it is to the fixing - general rule of thumb is the lining material starts approx 50% measurement of the fixed head width proud of the fixed head - so assuming the fixing is 1/4in dia the lining started 1/8in “thicker” both sides. Also the measurement you took of the retaining nut and thread showing so had been wound in loads. As a precaution, around the time that puppy was made they would have used an asbestos material for the lining so needs to be made safe (we always used hair lacquer - or hair spray as you guys over the pond call it) love your attention to detail man, all the best.

Good maintenance keeps the cogs rolling, nice video

Great video Adam. Those lathes are built well. Thank you for sharing.

I used to reline break shoes in the old days. You still have material before you get to the rivet heads. When the rivet heads start rubbing that's the time to replace or a little before they start to rub.

I would definitely have the clutch religned. If your place can't do it feel free to contact me, I have a place that does all my vintage clutches!

Lee Spring is a great co to work with, i have used them for years on several projects nice folks ,i still get a calendar every year from them.

Interesting to see inside the Monarch Adam, really beautiful machinery!

Great vid Adam...i remember watching the first vid of opening the top of the Monarch

Another good video. As always, you have this. Mr. Pete did a crescent wrench test to destruction. There is no incorrect way, as it turned out.

Interesting video of something i have never seen before, thanks

Really good video quality. Good camera.

One side of that clutch plate has brass wires across the 'crack'. It's either been repaired, or that's how they manufactured it. Also, it looks like the material has worn quite close to the rivets, so it's due for renewal anyways. See if you can get a spec on the original thickness before taking it to Alabammy, otherwise they might make it too thick, then the new springs won't push the driven plates far enough apart.

I really wish certain company's would start making machines like this again.. there is no money it it for them... but these beautifull machines were so well built and are completely rebuildable..

Awesome video and that is a really nice lathe you have. Love the vintage and year.

From my time of bein a mechanic those clutch plates look worn down to the rivets from what I can tell. I'd recommend replacing fairly soon.

Your video quality is outstanding!

Your clutch friction material sure looks thin. ALSO if it is indeed original to the machine it may contain asbestos. Best to replace as soon as practical and use care when handling.

@abom79 I'm addicted to your videos so you should upload more often 😅

Hope you read before reassembly but looks to be a good bit of wear left on the friction material. It is definitely glazed over and should be scuffed well and don't forget the clutch surfaces of the hub also. A scotchbrite pad in an air grinder works perfectly. Thanks for all the educational entertainment!

That friction plate could very well be asbestos. Take precautions when cleaning

@godfreypoon5148

4 жыл бұрын

Better filter it through a cigarette.

I have a similar problem with my Cincinnati, hoping to pick up some pointers, as always, good stuff Adam thanks.

I know a lot of people will say that the rivets on that friction material are getting close to the surface, but I'd bet on it lasting another decade at least. The clutches on those old machines hardly wear at all if they are set properly.

@sleeptyper

4 жыл бұрын

As a car mechanic, i say that that clutch is at the end of it's life - unless excessive excitement expecting express expiration is something to desire for.

Cool. I just saw one and now yours. Awesome.

Haven't seen a clutch like that since I ran an old thread mill, asset number was 1616 and I'd swear that was the year it was built. You could actually see where it had been converted from flat belt driven. All the clanking and clattering when running. :)

I cut my repair teeth on a CNC Monarch mill, vintage late 70's. I have never serviced a Monarch lathe or been around them. We were pretty loyal to Clausing Colchester machines. I have been in and all through the Colchesters, but it is fun to see inside the old Monarchs. We were a machine builder. Our machine design relied on spur gears. We used helical for heavier power transmission and to reduce gear mesh backlash. Helical gears give consistent full tooth contact. Non critical design drive trains used straight tooth gears.

@godfreypoon5148

4 жыл бұрын

I hear they use 3D printers to make repair teeth these days. Times have changed!