Another really useful video thanks. The comparison pictures of the 'salmon skin' are the clearest I have seen. :o)

Thank you for your video to test our MKS closed loop motor. We also have closed loop motors for NEMA23 too.

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi, thank you for your comment.

I know this is an older video but I am thinking of getting the SERVO42C. I was wondering if it can be controlled in service from a computer via the USB with just power into the board directly. ie no separate control board ? I'm looking at building a CNC router and want to use 4 of these to control motion,,

Any update on this solution, updated driver or bigger motor? I have a Creality CR 10S and think this is a great upgrade!

Great review....Thanks

is it possible to set Microstepping 4 or 8? or 16 is the lowest? Thank you.

i am trying to figure out wich way around the driver goes into the board.

Great work. Good to know about this possibility. But if you have issues with Y-layer shift, there are 2 more efficient solutions by my opinion. - Set TMC driver to spreadcycle mode. Default stealthchop mode has problem with high torques. Didnt tested because I do not have this problems. - Best solution by my opinion is ged rid of glass/mirror on your bed. Just to get perfect first layer you must face this issue. I dont have any issues with Y-layer shifts with your configuration(motor, board, drivers on stealthchop), with stock bed sheet and 2000 accel (running on Klipper firmware). I solved bubbling issue by heating bed on 100°C and squeezing bubbles out.

Well can't use on either of my printers, but it was a pleasure watching a ruiraptor vid as always.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks :)

Interesting video. Tks.

Needing a special driver really sucks, but I thought about it and I can't think of a way around that, unless it had a separate power supply and it's own driver to correct for lost steps. And that sucks even more.

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

The "special" driver plugs into the board just as any regular tmc stepper driver plugs into

Would be interesting to measure the delay in motor movement you add by introducing some extra logic and processing with the servo in there. Maybe thats where the salmon skin effect comes from, as the one modified motor-axis is always lagging a little bit behind where the main board actually think it should be?

Hello 06:07 I bought 4 of them at Jul. 20 2020. A magnet was attached to the center of the motor shaft using a resin cylinder 9mm / 6mm. Use resin spacers to attach the board to the motor. The screw holes of the motor have a recess for the screw head, and there are many gaps on the back of the spacer. As a result, it cannot be tightened strongly. I don't know if it's caused by the rotational vibration of the motor, but sometimes the board shifts. As a result, the magnetic detection encoder settings will fluctuate. It is difficult to calibrate the motor each time. Another problem, the closed-loop servo system should be excellent, but the problem of accumulated pulses becomes noticeable and drive delay occurs. Originally, the stepper porter has only the problem of magnetic pole deviation unless it is stepped out, and it does not matter in the case of microstep. From a different point of view, mechanically engineered encoders have advantages when applying closed loops to stepper motors. An unstable magnetic encoder with uncertain mounting can do a hundred harms, but no profit. Can I use it as a system that opens the closed loop and pretends to have pseudo-feedback that follows the pulse signal? If that is not possible, this foundation has no meaning to exist. Please consider it once. Best regards

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

Have you come to any conclusions about the questions you asked and concerns you had? Very interested to hear what you have to share about this topic

Really great review. thank you. i would have jumped on this bandwagon yesterday(!) but sadly this salmon skin artifact cooled me down. i would not go for closed loop and get poorer quality. makes no sense. I am so sorry to say that as much as i want to upgrade my printer - I wont. I wonder if ver 2.0 is on the horizon. i wont replace a low chance of having a layer shift with 100% chance of having salmon skin on each and every print.

it's working silent motor spin ? sound same A4988 ?

брал 4штуки MKS-SERVO42C, периодически во время работы слетает калибровка случайной оси , и двигатель с бешенной скоростью уносится в лимит, и бьётся об него пропуская шаги. После калибровки всё норм, но слетает другая ось во время печати. Думал проблемы по питанию, вешал для тестов отдельный БП, и даже аккумы для подпитки и дампинга. Всё равно не помогает.

when it is bootloader connect. How to defaut reset.? I don't connect to pc when bootloader connect.

Anyone tried the MKS SERVO42C? It apparently no longer uses the A4954 but "4 Half bridge driver with 8 MOSFET" but I was not able to find any comparison besides the Video from MKS themselves but that one looks promising

@veegee24

Жыл бұрын

The servo42c does true field oriented control, which is why it uses 8 MOSFETs - that's the correct way to do it. The version shown in this video is closed loop, but isn't actually field oriented control, it's just a regular stepper driver. "Closed loop" and "field oriented control" aren't the same thing. Field oriented control creates a magnetic field based on actual rotor position relative to the stator to create maximum torque. It is _also_ closed-loop at the absolute positioning level. Regular closed loop control without FOC is only closed loop at the absolute positioning level, but it doesn't care about rotor position relative to the stator. The driver algorithm at that level is still the same as a regular open loop stepper.

will it work with Duet mainboard?

Can I control this MKS servo 42 with Arduino along with the built-in board? may by using the shield.

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, you can use arduino to control this stepper motor. The driver is included in the motor so you only need to send the control signals.

the print speed increase is amazing. wish you could get this with TMC. maybe I can make my own but it'd take ages

@Kalvinjj

3 жыл бұрын

Are you running your TMC drivers in StealthChop or SpreadCycle mode? SpreadCycle gives more torque at the expense of some noise, faster moves, higher loads and some bigger motors (my NEMA 23s for example) will barely run at all in StealthChop anyway.

Thanks. I'll go with what you said but first: 1. I run a delta and i want these for my XYZ motors. 2. I want to believe i will know how to tune these - just need the info how. 3. According to the manufacturer - you can't buy only the boards and I already have 0.9deg's. 4. According to the manufacturer - No plans to introduce TMC's drivers for these. 5. I searched YT for video showing these in action on a delta printing a model without Salmon skin artifacts to no avail. I really like the way this is all going, but too soon for me to jump in. looks like we're at least a year away from having a good solution. I know other companies that sells only these boards and if they will prove a salmon-skin-free print, i will go their way.

Very interesting video :)

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks :)

Can you switch out the driver and put a tmc 2209 instead of the one that comes with it?

@ruiraptor

3 жыл бұрын

No, that is not possible. But you can find some closed loop motors with TMC drivers in the market.

To clarify, the motor can lose steps, but will try to make up for it, so if you block the head, it will jump back to the correct position, considering all steps it was supposed to make during the time it was out of sync. You CAN use this stepper with boards without replaceable stepper drivers, but you need access to the stepper dir, step, cs, 5V, motor power and ground signals. So to install it on board with headers for these signals it's still quite easy to install.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Ron, you are correct. Regarding the installation on boards without replaceable drivers, the board needs to have driver headers. We now see boards that have them but there are lots of boards that don't have and the installation on those it's more tricky.

Is salmon skin present with higher microstepping (i saw it can go up to 64) or is it reduced?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

We didn't try with higher microstepping because at that time we only had an 8bit board and that type of board cannot handle higher microstepping.

As Trampas said, these are clones/ripoffs of original misfit electronics design, even the display in the firmware says that. Salmon skin is absolutely a result of a miss-configuration. These are NOT plug & play, you need to find pid values which work best for the setup being used. Stock pid are very generic and are just to get you going, you need to know something about how PID loop works, and Trampas actually supports the products he sells, and will help you find the appropriate pid value. Good luck getting MKS to help you with any of that. I run 4 of the authentic ones and have had zero salmon skin or artifacts, (after I tuned them properly to my setup) and I also run these only on the heavier axis, and trinamic 2660s on the X axis. Also salmon skin can be a result of poor noise isolation in the cable, the cable going from the main board to the stepper board needs to be shielded, or there will be odd issues, the cable included by MKS is not. At the minimum the step/dir wires must be shielded. This is what happens when Chinese companies clone a western design.

@MrKelaher

5 жыл бұрын

This is really helpful ! looking at the "genuine" now.

@3dprintingpunk31

4 жыл бұрын

where can I find the legit? I am currently in the process of building my first diy 3d printer

@Kalvinjj

3 жыл бұрын

I know this is 2 years old but... How is anyone producing an open source project and crediting the original creator of it, ripping it off? It's literally on the Github page for their MKS Servo 42. I'll give it to you if they only gave credits recently tho (the time on the github files do show 2 years ago tho). Dunno how well the MKS version handles errors, but the Bigtreetech one I have on X and Y have no problems whatsoever on noise on the cables, they're not shielded as well and X cabling runs along all my other cabling on the gantry, including the ABL servo, fan PWM and 40w heater.

@Mr.Thermistor7228

9 ай бұрын

​@@Kalvinjjyea other guy thinks he's on some high horse cause he isn't buying the "clone." Exactly as you say it's open source and using the term "clone" as if signifying its a negative thing is completely false and does not in any way mean it is a negative. Way more often then not clones are improved and better than the first iteration. This guy has some superiority complex syndrome or something

@Mr.Thermistor7228

9 ай бұрын

You really have no idea what your talking about

8:30 isn't this salmon skin effect there because you were using it in just one axis?

Hello, this model is compatible with an SKR mini E3 V2.0 that has built-in drivers?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi Julien, no, it's not compatible with the SKR mini E3 V2.

@Q5Grafx

3 жыл бұрын

i bought the bigtreetech s42b ender3 kits for $16 each without the motors because i use 920z in 2.1a steppers. they come with a small adjustment wheel is the only difference between the models in the bigtree lineup. but it is made for the ender3 and they have a page with the firmware for all others if its needed to change to make it compatible for the 4988 drivers. as for thee mini i dont know about clearances because you are adding about 10mm to the length of the motor

Hope they update drivers soon...

Very good review, but could you do a more detailed video on how you did RealTerm installation, settings and configuring the MKS Servo42... I can't get it to work!

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi, we will review a better motor soon and we will try to include that information.

@Q5Grafx

3 жыл бұрын

it is possible you may need to update the firmware of your control board. try their git hub for that github.com/makerbase-mks/MKS-SERVO42B

Note that the salmon skin is most likely due to the PID parameters being not tuned for your printer. That is the PID control loop may over shoot, which will result in the salmon skin effect. It could also be that the A1333 encoder MKS uses is lower resolution, resulting in some slight position error. Additionally you can turn up the current on the control board to near the maximum of 2.0A even though the motor is only 1.3A. The current rating on the motor is based on the continuous current, where the firmware currently specifies the current as the peak. Since the smart stepper firmware will reduce the current if the position error is low their is little risk in exceeding the continuous current rating of the motor unless motor stalls for a long time. Future firmware releases of the smart stepper firmware will add in the continuous current limit (which will not be available for MKS). Also to show the true power of the smart stepper firmware during a print grab the head and move the print head.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, thanks for sharing this. I didn't raise the current because the MKS Servo42 manual states that the stock value is the max value that should be used for this motor. Also, with the tests done with other allegro drivers, increasing the current didn't help to reduce the salmon skin. Regarding the encoder resolution, from what I see, it has a very good resolution so I don't think that is the issue. Not only the DRV8825 drivers have issues with salmon skin. The allegro A4982 also have this issue (see my analysis video here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/aWya0dCGn7u4paQ.html ).

@human2761

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Trampas, I'm running my printer with Smart steppers (FW0.37). Earlier when running the printer in regular cartesian XY, prints were good. Now with it setup as a CoreXY , I've been introduced to severe salmon skinning on all surfaces. Maybe some tuning is in order for this kind of setup?!?

@MrEmbedded

5 жыл бұрын

@@human2761 What controller are you using? The Duet has some acceleration math bugs for coreXY, which I have seen causing problems. Also with the CoreXY it is critical that the both motors accelerate the same and respond the same, so try slowing down the maximum print speed and see if this fixes/reduces the problem if so let me know. Specifically I am worried that if you tell bot motors to move 10 steps and one has an error and takes slightly longer to move it will cause more issues on coreXY, if you slow controller down and problems go away then this might be problem. Another issue might be the ringing on the PID tuning. For this try dropping the P term to 0.4 and I term to 0.0004 and d term to zero. This might reduce the ringing due to lower P term and hence reduce salmon skin effect. However by all means let me know and also check the Smart Stepper group: groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smart-stepper

Really interesting video. Can you buy that motor board on it's own? Or does it require a custom version of the nema 17 with it? I've got the newer tornado, so it doesn't have the salmon skin by default, so am I right in thinking this wouldn't give the salmon skin? Hopefully they come out with a TMC version at some point.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, the salmon skin if from the driver and not the board so even if you buy the motor board alone it will not fix the salmon skin. The motor board can be used with any nema 17 motor but you will need to add a small magnet on the motor shaft for it to work.

@K34nuT

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Thank you for the quick reply!

@augrabiesview1756

2 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Hi, I bought the board and driver alone, it didn't include a magnet. Can I use a normal round magnet and what is the correct procedure in attaching it to a Nema 17 motor?

why do they write it can 256 microstepping if it isnt?

can you use a h-bridge driver that is common with Ardrino

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

The board already includes the driver chip.

O Rui Qua é a tensão máxima que isso aguenta? Eu comprei um desses mas é para uma impressora que tenho a trabalhar com 33vdc e ns descrições do vendedor diz 24v mas não deve ser o máximo que aguenta, os drivers que tenho podem ir até aos 35v mas há alguns que só podem chegar a 28v, sabes dizer qual é o máximo que posso usar com isso? Obrigado

@ruiraptor

3 жыл бұрын

Boa noite Tiago, segundo a MKS, a voltagem máxima recomendada é mesmo 24V. Se for usada uma voltagem maior poderá haver alguma instabilidade.

@tpsintra

3 жыл бұрын

Muito Obrigado Mas mesmo assim vou tentar puxar isso mais um pouco para ver o resultado... Ver se corre bem 💣💥🙄

I kinda prefer my motors skipping as it acts like a force limiter so I don't bend my heartbreak but I'm really impressed with this product. What are the advantages besides closed loop driving?

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

That makes absolutely no sense... By your logic your heatbreak is acting like a impact absorber since the motors will be travelling past the point of contact as you say... If it was closed loop the stepper motor would know exactly where it is at and if the slicer profile was correct and there was no path that the heatbreak would contact anything then you would never have any contact to begin with

could you increase the steps and adjust marlin to combat salmon skin?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

I currently have an MKS GEN L board and increasing the microstepping with this 8bit board is not a good idea.

I am trying these (bigtreetech s42b model) on my dual z printer for the z axis steppers. I think this is the best use. Should allow better layer resolution and keep the level better. I don’t think salmon skin effect will show here.

@KarriKoivusalo

4 жыл бұрын

If you need good precision and level holding on the Z-axis, a 0.9 degree stepper and a good quality 2mm pitch lead screw will do an excellent job for much less money (5 micron full-step accuracy and very resistant to back driving). A servo is way too expensive for what it's worth on a Z-axis.

@Nazrac79

4 жыл бұрын

@@KarriKoivusalo This is a Nema17 stepper with closed loop feedback. I got them for $20 a piece assembled. So I can keep my original leadscrews and carriage assembly exactly as it is. I am not sure how a 0.9deg stepper which usually cost more than $20 and a new leadscrews and a new carriage nut which hopefully fits my carriage is going to be cheaper,much less if it does skip a step it's done being level. I do run Marlin 2.0 with auto z align before every print.

@KarriKoivusalo

4 жыл бұрын

If you have a problem with Z-axis losing steps, it's a failure on the stepper motor part. Are you sure having the cheapest of the cheap parts is going to fix it?

@Nazrac79

4 жыл бұрын

@@KarriKoivusalo Well I am not having lost steps, but I don't care who you are what machine you are running, but on a dual Z independent gantry you will have some skipping. That is just a fact no system is perfect. If they were why in the world would most every precision manufacturing machine use closed loop servos over open loop steppers. I can tell by doing a Z auto align after a print that there is some small step loss. It is pretty minimal but it is there no the less. If you look at your prints you probably will see some very small tell tale signs like one layer looks just a bit squished . I did this mainly to test out how well it works, so far its pretty interesting. I might have some setup issues. Upon re-enabling of the stepper drive it goes to the calibrated position don't know if that is good or bad, but if you set it high it goes up to the top and very rapidly at that, if you set it low it could hit a print if you dont do it right. most of the time You would remove the print before doing this but... I was thinking mostly to see how well this would work and if it does, which it seems to, why not design something like this with say a TMC5160 or 2209. Closed loop has a very strong appeal to it regardless of how good you machine is. I can say that I am able to achieve much higher velocity with my Z-axis now. It could be the bigger motors over the stock ones, but I would lose steps if I tried to go over 12mm/sec now I can achieve well over 20mm/sec without skipped steps. Why is this important you may ask well I can say that I have shaved a couple minutes off of a 2 hour print in just the increased speed in my Z-Hop, and my prints are dead on in the layer heights. And no I did not cheap out on my printer, well perhaps when I started I did as I bought a Anet E12, but its pretty much a from scratch printer minus the base frame and heated bed platform. Now its a SKR Pro powered linear rails for z All Metal Nickel plated copper V6 BMG direct drive using mostly TMC2209's minus Y which is a TMC2160 with a .59NM stepper , homebrew heated space, Cant call it a heated chamber due to statasys.

@Nazrac79

4 жыл бұрын

For Reference here's my printer before the closed loop stepper upgrade, I will make a timelapse of something after its done. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e56Dp9Wfj8rYYZc.html

Great video! I wonder if salmon skin is produced by the stepper driver or the encoder. Theoretically, the servo mechanism should correct such errors, unless the encoder itself is somewhat non linear between steps. This can happen because of non -controlled magnetic hysteresis and the fact that is hard to perfectly center the encoder.

@dbaznr

4 жыл бұрын

I think that the problem rises from the driver's zero-crossing anomalies and can't be filtered or fixed.

@mattselectronics3425

4 жыл бұрын

Since this is a ripoff of the Smart Stepper from misfittech, it should have the same calibration routine which deals with this issues. They skimped on some components, so that might cause some issues. You also have to do the calibration for it to be effective....

Click the MKS-SERVO57 manual to display the MKS-SERVO42 manual. MKS-SERVO57 is not working properly and cannot be calibrated. What should i see? About MKS-SERVO57 and MKS-SERVO42. Do you recognize that both are the same? There is a manual on 42, but the operation method for setting is different. But 57 has no instructions. It cannot be set by operating in the same way. I manipulated it by mistake and set one item by chance. It cannot be manipulated and reproduced at the next opportunity. I would like to ask the person in charge of 57, it is not the same as 42, so please make a correct manual.

Can this Stepper be controller via USB too? (for easy left right move op*s) Thank You

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, you can connect it by USB to a terminal software and control it, calibrate it or change some parameters.

@oreste6076

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor thank you, but may i connect a LIMIT SWITCH too, or THEN i need a COntroller again?!

What about increasing the microstepping on the motor and adjusting the firmware? Wouldn't that help with the salmon skin?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

I normally don't use higher microstepping values with 8bit boards. Perhaps with a 32bit board such as a lerdge that test can be properly done.

@KingBeetle1966

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor So were you using the same microstepping value for the TMC drivers?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Correct. I used the same 1/16 steps for the TMC drivers.

Did you try to push the bed and see if it moved back into position after being pushed further away from its location that it needed to be or isnt it supoosed to do that?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Thomas, yes, I did that test while the motor was on my hand. If you try to rotate the motor shaft, it will return to the original position.

@ikinkyxD

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for replying :)

@linma1587

5 жыл бұрын

Links for better quality goods item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.16.72f57e11aMjF9A&id=560861617983&ns=1&abbucket=19#detail item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.15.2adb7e11ujhCsS&id=565629843369&ns=1&abbucket=19#detail

For the salmon skin, do you plan to reconfigure and use 64 microstepping ?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Julien, Not with this 8bit board. Only with a 32bit board you can try the 1/64 microstepping.

@yaVDRgda

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor should work with Klipper firmware

Can I use those to make a CNC ? With a CNC shield ?

@Bisofication

4 жыл бұрын

Yes!

Nice video and good product Please 2 questions for this product: - Can we disable microstepping function or choose smaller microstepping like 1/2 1/4 1/8 ? - Do we need limit switch ? (I want to use this board-motor for another application not for 3d printer were is not possible to use limit or home switch) Thank you

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, regarding your first question, yes, you can choose a smaller microstepping. Regarding the limit switch, this board/driver does not support sensorless homing so you need limit switches.

@myzante

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Thank you for your fast response !!!

Nice video as usual 😍 does it work with RAMPS 1.4 ?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi,Yes, it works with a ramps 1.4. You just need to plug in the adaptor and that's it.

@darkracer1252

5 жыл бұрын

can't you listen? he fucking says it's a plug and play system and you don't need hardware or software changes as long as you can swap the stepper drivers.

Is there any information on how to connect them to Arduino? Are they compatible with ramps 1.4?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, they are compatible with ramps. The connection should be very similar with the connection made with the board in the video.

@mailoisback

4 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Thank you! Another question: what magnetic encoder does it have? (from what I understand in your video you have MKS SERVO42A, not the newer MKS SERVO42B which has Allegro's A1333LLETR-T). Is it AD5047D?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

The new MKS Servo42B we don't have yet. We might test it soon.

Would have been nice if the made it where we could put on TMC2208 driver on the board ourselves then it definitely would be worth buying great video as always keep up the great work and if you could make a short video on how you installed TMC2208 on you tevo black widow and what you had to change in the firmware to make them work would be greatly appreciated thank you.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback Jim. Regarding the TMC2208 on the black widow, i did the same thing as in my video of the MKS GEN L upgrade. Same jumper configuration.

Are they work on a SKR 1.1 Pro board?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Yes it works.

Would this be a good choice for the extruder?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Joe, I'm currently testing exactly that. It seems to be yes. When i finish these tests i will update the information in the video description.

Is there one for a NEMA 17?

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

This is the one for nema 17

How about the printing dimension accuracy like x,y,z cube, does it eliminate small dimension error?

@nathanmattison474

4 жыл бұрын

Did a 20mm cal cube recently, about the same accuracy as before.

@calvin-7540

4 жыл бұрын

@@nathanmattison474 is it 20mm exactly or a few mm smaller/larger? How much is the error in mm approximately?

@nathanmattison474

4 жыл бұрын

@@calvin-7540 Well, my printer was usually off by +-0.2mm depending on flow rate. At 100 percent flow rate, it was 19.93mm in the x and y which are the axis I out this type of stepper. However mine is a 7 pin Chinese clone, same concept, but mine doesn't have a USB and other stuff. So you could say it did better, but I attribute that more to just the conditions at the time like maybe my garage was warmer then before, etc...

@calvin-7540

4 жыл бұрын

@@nathanmattison474Thank you for your reply. If I am not wrong, the makerbase brand is from China as well, so there is very little chance to have clone in the domestic market in China【almost all China clone products available overseas can be found in China market as well (Taobao)】, maybe your one is the latest 42B version which the manufacturer eliminate the USB port.

@nathanmattison474

4 жыл бұрын

www.ebay.com/itm/174214691602 That's the one I bought.

If you were to forcefully stop the print head mid print will it correct itself and catch back up? You really should have done that in this test

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, I did try that. I jammed the motor shaft for a second when the motor was moving the axis a long lenght and at the end the carriage moved the same amount that i told it to move.

@thegreatestmoo

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Did the other axis's get out of sync? I was worried since just the stepper itself is closed, but there is still no communication back to the MKS to tell other steppers to wait until its back in sync right? Did you do that in the video? I dident see that.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

That is correct. There is no communication back with the board and the other motors so if you jam one of the axis the others will still continue. The jammed axis will recover but depending on the movements the printer is doing, it might not be fast enough to recover without getting layer shift effect.

@rondlh20

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, it will, the motor will only lose step temporarily, but will continue to try to catch up with the correct amount of steps

What is the difference between this servo board and the Mechaduino ( which is open source and the MKS as usually not. )?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, At first sight, the makerbase looks more complete as you can add the display and see information on the screen and quickly change some settings without the use of a computer. Both use the same driver so i suspect that the mechaduino should suffer from salmon skin as well.

@Menschenleser

3 жыл бұрын

@npgoalkeeper _ could you give some explanation how to tune PID loop? I've got the BigTree Closed Loop Kit and would be interested in your experience. Thanks!

@Menschenleser

3 жыл бұрын

@npgoalkeeper _ Thanks very much for your quick response. I'll take a look at the documentation.

@Menschenleser

3 жыл бұрын

@npgoalkeeper _ Here is the doc for the S42B from BTT. On page 14 you can see where you can tune the PID github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-S42B-V1.0/blob/master/42%20Stepper%20Motor%20Closed%20Loop%20Driver%20Control%20Board%20Manual.pdf

Sir..can i use ramps 1.6 for mks servo instead of using mks gen board for my printer?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi, yes you can.

@krishnankv7894

4 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor thank you sir😊

Hi Can I control this stepper motor with arduino ?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi, The 3d printer boards are normally equipped with Sanguino or Atmega microcontroller chips and programmed with arduino IDE, so yes, you can.

@MiniatureWorld_01

4 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor I meant can I control it as a standalone directly using an arduino and a stepper driver ? I plan to use it for a model railroad turntable.

They need to make one with a TMC2130

@KarriKoivusalo

4 жыл бұрын

A servo controller needs to have a full H-bridge PWM driver to work; a stepper driver works differently and wouldn't do.

yeah I'm going to wait until there is one that has stealthchop, or something like it. I just made my 3d printer quiet. don't want to revert my work :)

Excellent video as always. It's a shame there isn't another driver option for that motor.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Vance, I agree. I would like to see this motor with a different driver.

@vanceblosser2155

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Perhaps one will appear once the salmon skin becomes common knowledge.

@vanceblosser2155

5 жыл бұрын

@@linma1587 Thanks for sharing this information.

@mrobertsca

5 жыл бұрын

They is an option. ustepper.com/store/ustepper-boards/26-42-ustepper-s-lite.html#/28-connector-dc_jack/31-stepper_motor-no_stepper_motor

how can I know how many steps my motor need to finish one revolution

@lassebassedrengen11

3 жыл бұрын

360 / step angle

@johnm.gerard1718

2 жыл бұрын

also there are usually 2 types of stepper motors for a 3D printer. If it is a 1.8 degree stepper it is 200 steps. If it is a 0.9 degree it is 400 steps.

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

The company that made it will provide that

Hi there is two model now 42 a and 42 b so which is the good ? thanks

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi, wen we made the video, there was only the 42. Now MKS has the 42b. We didn't test the 42b yet.

@eduncan911

4 жыл бұрын

@ruiraptor looks like they gave you props when designing Rev B: github.com/makerbase-mks/MKS-SERVO42B They also open-sourced the firmware.

god this is perfect. what about noise tho? i wish you tested noise so much. it's so dumb it has salmon skin

@eb3dxxlprinting281

3 жыл бұрын

So I am using this system with an MKS Rumb32 and cannot recommend it. Even at 256 microstepps it is loud, you can't compare it with the TMC 2130 that I had installed before. Even the Rumba32 had to be modified to run with tmc2130. The print result for the TMC2130 is not much better. Here, savings were made at the wrong end. I don't recommend buying it or you can live with the volume. I am disappointed.

The encoder that the motor has is incremental or absolute?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

It might be incremental but it's all done internally on the small board.

@KarriKoivusalo

4 жыл бұрын

These kind of servos are universally based on magnetic sensor which detects the angle of the magnetic field from the magnet on the end of the shaft, so absolute.

@manuelrodriguezlatorre8978

4 жыл бұрын

@@KarriKoivusalo so in case the power goes out, the servo still knows in which position it is, isn't it? I would never have to do a homing right?

@KarriKoivusalo

4 жыл бұрын

@@manuelrodriguezlatorre8978 Homing would still be needed in most cases; while the driver knows the shaft angle on a single revolution, it has no way of knowing how many revolutions the shaft has done while out of power. On a blackout resume with everything held in place it could resume with complete precision.

@tictacX1

4 жыл бұрын

According to the specs of the sensor found in the link, it's a high resolution angle sensor "The A1333 is a 360° angle sensor IC that provides contactless high-resolution angular position information based on magnetic Circular Vertical Hall (CVH) technology. ". Link: registration.allegromicro.com/#/parts/A1333

if you have the pinnout of the driver ic you could solder on some wires and go to a diffefent driver

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Vega 128. That's not that easy to do :) Furthermore, there are surrounding components that are different between drivers too.

@ellisgl

5 жыл бұрын

ustepper.com/store/ustepper-boards/27-46-ustepper-s.html

@ellisgl

5 жыл бұрын

@npgoalkeeper _ how so? This uses a magnetic position sensor just like the uStepper

could this be used as a servo in a robotics project?

@ruiraptor

Жыл бұрын

It depends on the project...the stepper motor can be used but the size and weight might be an issue if your robort is small.

@cyberstar251

Жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor my robot is rather large so that won't be an issue.

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

Yes of course these can be used for any application a stepper motor is used. There is no downside to closed loop

Lets hope that TMC releases just modular "board" for NEMA 17 with replaceable driver of out choice and we will have deal ..

@mrobertsca

5 жыл бұрын

ustepper.com/store/ustepper-boards/26-42-ustepper-s-lite.html#/28-connector-dc_jack/31-stepper_motor-no_stepper_motor

@mrobertsca

5 жыл бұрын

@npgoalkeeper _ how do you figure that?

Nice video, but You didn't show how fast it can go OR is that another video?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, No, we didn't show how fast the motor can go because it can turn faster than the printer's axis can handle.

@Dancer148

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor in a 3d printer it is belt driven, but on a spindle transmission higher speeds are desirable. I was interested in your video because few hours earlier I wanted to buy that motor:)

Can we use TMC2208 driver with this motor?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

No you cannot. The driver is included on the small board.

@calvin-7540

4 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor does the driver on the board make much noise compared to the stock driver

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

It makes the same noise. The driver on motor's board is also an allegro.

@Mrtickleberries

4 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor I dont understand why they would go to the effort of creating this then put an old driver on it

@KarriKoivusalo

4 жыл бұрын

It's not a stepper driver, it's an H-bridge driver. You cannot use any stepper drivers with this control method.

Good

How does it do for extruder?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

I was expecting some interesting results but sadly it didn't work as good.

@wrxsubaru02

4 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Thanks for the info

@Nazrac79

4 жыл бұрын

What was the result that lead to this conclusion? I am direct drive so I won’t use this anyway but I am curious what was bad.

Wheres the firmware of this? :( SOS (im using it for a project)

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Hi, you don't need to make any changes in the printer's firmware when using this motor. Step and direction can be changed in the motor.

interesting, could this be used on an extruder?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Domenico, I'm currently testing it on the extruder :)

@sirkojac

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor How did it go?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

@@sirkojac , at first it was very interesting as I was getting perfect filament output (and it was always consistent for different filament types and speeds) but then I started to get different results depending on the model. It's very difficult to dial in the profile so I eventually stopped the tests. I might get back to this later when I have more time.

@darkracer1252

5 жыл бұрын

no

@darkracer1252

5 жыл бұрын

you cannot use this on an extruder. what happens when you get a clog. it starts skipping. it will then try to compensate and skip even more. and more and more untill you break something. what happens when you don't get a clog but it still skips. then you get a part of the print where it skipped so you have underextruded. and then it compensates by overextruding on another part of the print because it's already passed that part of the print.

So there is no backlash?

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

Backlash comes from the mechanical pieces like the leadscrew nut. If you had the encoder along the axis then you could control the backlash electronically. Here you have the encoder in the motor it self so no.

Features of motor / servo system A magnet that transmits a rotation angle with a center deviation is adhered to the rear end of the motor shaft. A Hall IC that receives the rotation angle is attached to the board with a center deviation. In order to drive correctly, the angle detection for the motor drive must be performed correctly. The base is fixed to the motor through a simple plastic spacer. The fixing element also serves as an assembly fixing bolt for the motor, and is tightened with a force that does not damage the base and spacer, has relief due to strong lateral stress, and prevents destruction due to displacement. The motor / servo system compensates for the relational accuracy error by learning. What you should not do. Accurately attach the sensation magnet to the rear end of the motor shaft. Does not give an impact that disturbs the angle detection accuracy. Does not give an impact that disturbs the position related to the assembly of the motor.

wait i'm confused. isn't this a servo? why are you using an a4988?

@paulhamacher773

3 жыл бұрын

he calls it allegro because on the servo there is an A4954 Dual Full-Bridge DMOS PWM Motor Driver installed to power the motor :)

Pretty sure I have some sort of cloned version, no usb, 7 pin, and no reset button, comes up "Encoder Error! Reboot

@nathanmattison474

4 жыл бұрын

Turns out SKR v1.3 boards only put out 3.3v on the stepper driver logic Vin. Had to tapp into the servo which has 5v because the encoder runs 5v. Got it to work finally, actually works pretty good, I knocked the axis while printing and it came back and continued printing where it needed to.

No special software /firmware mod required?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly. No firmware change or installation required. If you need to change some parameters like motor direction, microsteppings, etc, you can do it directly on the motor

@JustAValidName89

5 жыл бұрын

ruiraptor can you Tell me which cables i have to swap to change Direction? Ty in advance! Chris

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

@@JustAValidName89 You don't need to change any cables for motor direction. You can access the motor using a USB cable and edit the firmware by sending a few commands or get a display and change the motor direction using the display.

@JustAValidName89

5 жыл бұрын

ruiraptor ty for the fast reply but i asked my question on the wrong Video..... i Wanted to ask this for the trianglelabs Dual extruder Motor Setup on my tevo Tornado..... i already deleted the Post But it Looks like that did Not work 😅

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

@@JustAValidName89 , for the BMG extruder on the tornado, install the extruder the other way around instead. It will work the same but the differences are that you don't need to reverse the direction and it will be easier to handle with it.

i has encoder error reboot??

@Muybonito523

4 жыл бұрын

I have this same error with mine. Its a 7 pin version though from Ebay and no reset button. Did you ever figure this out? I'm about to return to the seller because they are not helping.

@nathanmattison474

4 жыл бұрын

Figured it out with the supplier, the VIN input to the STM32 chip, has to be 5v, my skrv1.3 from Bigtreetech only puts out 3.3v.

cool

You forgot to test the MAIN Feature of this setup -> Closed loop. To test that you force it to miss steps manually and see if it returns.

@skaltura

5 жыл бұрын

also notice that it looks like the board which does actually the closed loop stuff looks like it could be moved to another stepper no problem. You could have reduced salmon skinning by increasing vref as well.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, I actually tested the close loop feature (mentioned that in another comment here). I rotated manually the shaft and it returned to the initial position. Regarding the salmon skin and vrefs, I followed the manufactures advice on max values and tested. The salmon skin is not fixed with vref adjustments.

@skaltura

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor Increasing Vref decreases the amount of móire. It is probably missed microsteps which causes it, well that is my theory in any case. MFG recommendations are a bit so so, it is like they would sell you bicycle which they say can only do 5km/h, or this another 10km/h. Just step up the Vref; If you cannot boil eggs on driver or the motor, you are all ok :) Joking aside, i try to keep my motors and drivers below 80C, often around 60C (60C = very uncomfortable to touch, but ok) That was not sufficient test of closed loop as just watching flag on it does not give any idea did it return to exactly right spot, that test should have been done during print, so if it did not return to exactly right spot, it would be veeeeery obvious. Mid print you will easily see if it missed by say 0.1mm :)

So is that a servo of a stepper?

@frankearl9285

3 жыл бұрын

Closed loop stepper. It's a bit of a hack on top of a Stepper to make a more servo-like behavior without needing to make a bunch of changes to deploy a major increase in speed and precision.

Should have forced it to miss some steps, and show us how it recovers. Could of physicaly pushed the bed all the way to one side

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

It will recover and continue at the correct position but it will not go back and redo the missing steps

Driver is not responsible for the salmon skin. I rather think that the salmon skin is due to the fact that you use only one servo motor (y axis only) instead of two (x and y). Have you tried with at least two servos? Edit: btw, thanks for the video, great presentation ;-)

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, I find it hard to believe that the salmon skin is created by having one Allegro on the Y axis and one TMC on the X axis. Why do you think that?

@RaoulEvilD

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor thank you for your answer. Actually I am not fully satisfied by my position either 😅. Full reasoning is a bit long, so I will keep it short: the servo motor has >0.02mm EFFECTIVE LINEAR resolution, and the A4954 is not a stepper driver but a "generic" PWM full bridge driver. All the calculation is made by the MC. Hence if anything wrong with this servo then it should be bad MC choice /code or too low resolution hall effect sensor, not the "driver". Otherwise it might be that the difference of linearity between the servo and the TMC22030 + stepper emphasizes an otherwise unknown non-linearity of the TMC driver interpolation, hence my previous answer.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Jean-Philippe,Thank you for your explanation.That would probably make sense if you were working with a delta system or a corexy where you need to have both X and Y axis working together. In this case, where you have a Cartesian printer with independent moving axis, I don’t think so.Regarding the hall effect sensor, this one is actually very sensitive as I show in the video.

@elitemachineworks1037

5 жыл бұрын

@@ruiraptor There might be hope for 32-bit controllers using this servo at a higher step rate. I might be wrong, but I suspect the reason the TMC2208 drivers work so well at eliminating salmon skin is because they are actually running the motor at 256 micro-stepping when in SpreadCycle mode. This why the TMC SpreadCycle technology is so quiet, the TMC driver is just taking your 1/16 micro-stepping signal from the controller and bumping it up to 256 micro-stepping. I would be curious to see if the TMC2208 driver produces salmon skin with the SpreadCycle mode disabled via driver jumper settings.

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Kyle, I will try to test with a higher micro-stepping soon and will let you know. Regarding the TMC and why they don't have salmon and are so quiet, I'm not so sure about that and I would bet that they will not produce salmon skin with spreadcycle disabled.

Pity that driver is not in a 7 pin DIL socket.

1:37 Haven't had that good laugh for a while. That's a chinese promise 😂. Other than that, really good review. That board quality looks horrible. Seriously everything is misaligned etc.

new version faster processor MKS SERVO42B suposidly no more salmon skin

Not all smoothers are the same! There are MANY different diodes that will cut off power at different voltage levels so just because one brand of smoother doesn't perform well, doesn't mean all will be that way! It's like saying all 3D Printers perform the same when we all know that is totally ludicrous!

@ruiraptor

4 жыл бұрын

The ideal would be using trinamic drivers instead of allegros.

Nice work, shame about the driver

Unfortunately this excellent product is no longer available.

@Mr.Thermistor7228

8 ай бұрын

Yes it is

These are just closed looped steppers, not a real servo!

@johnhenry1300

3 жыл бұрын

thanks captain obvious. you saved the day.

@ChrisbottrellphotographyCoUk

3 жыл бұрын

@@johnhenry1300 i do what I can

@johnhenry1300

3 жыл бұрын

@@ChrisbottrellphotographyCoUk its good to have you on our side... if you were to use your powers for evil... oh boy we'd be in trouble.

MKS Servo42 Absolutely not working on my printer, something is wrong!

only a low cost several motor😅

this contraption are not a closed loop driver and can not track steps. all it does is counting full rotations or half rotations at best. for tracking individual steps driver needs a proper incremental encoder with resolution twice as high as preferred step-rev count.

@tictacX1

4 жыл бұрын

According to the specs of the sensor found in the link, it's a high resolution angle sensor "The A1333 is a 360° angle sensor IC that provides contactless high-resolution angular position information based on magnetic Circular Vertical Hall (CVH) technology. ". Link: registration.allegromicro.com/#/parts/A1333

Does this work with the Geeetech A10?

@ruiraptor

5 жыл бұрын

Hi, Do you mean for X and/or Y axis?