i can appreciate a good conversation on ergonomics well done

Love the detailing, thanks!

The electrical clutch and gradual start were driving me nuts on the gen 2. The fat handle is the compromise for a sub-compact tool. Those slide -on power packs can be pretty annoying when working in tight places. In retrospect, if Milwaukee had to redesign the M12 line from the start, using smaller batteries so the handles wouldnt be so bulky would have been a great idea. I guess that was the limitation at the time, and now its too late to change. The Ridgid 12volt line had some bulky handles.

I just started using the M12 generation 3 drill driver. I use my middle to finger to pull the trigger and index finger to guide or steer the tool. Milwaukee may have intended middle finger trigger pull like the installation driver. I an aircraft mechanic and the majority of drill applications are for removing and installing fasteners using the clutch.

@Yalhoymohk

Ай бұрын

Could you explain the clutch on this drill please? That's exactly what I am looking for. How does it handle little screws? Is it sensitive or does it overdo them? Thanks.

I remodel kitchens so I use 2 very comfortable 12v Dewalt’s , light compact driver’s, one for drilling one for screws. This has been very informative as I’m slowly moving over to Milwaukee.

@Nicky14P

11 ай бұрын

The problem with Dewalt’s 12v line is that the tools aren’t much smaller than the Atomic 20v line

@g8beast679

8 ай бұрын

I have reno my full upper 2 floors of the house and i tell you, using dewalt 12v tools. And now the basement bathroom using the dewalt drill/driver and impact. Thought of switching over to m12 because of the new gen. Bought the kit, tried a few times and to be honest, i used the hammer drill to drill 4 holes for the shower column and damn.... my hand felt fatigued. That this was for less than 5 minutes with stops and starts. Sticking with 12v xtreme.

Great Review. Just watched your video after purchasing the Gen 3 kit. And the 1st thing i noticed and did not appreciate was the curve in the back. The grip is not steady and i kept hitting the forward reverse switch.

Dude i dont care what anyone says ergonomics matter too me alot ! Thank u so much! Ur right about performance fit over comfort fit! First time i ever noticed this was when i used my dewalt random orbital sander years ago(after months of heavy use i wish i had a lower grip and pneumatic for low vibration). Then noticed it on my road and mostly mountain bikes and motorcycles. This mattered to me alot especially with many years of nerve damage! No with most of it healed im only half as picky but still look at it alot even in shoes as a kid. Really nice to know what our money goes into on the little details and wherr the companies mind and evolution is at!

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

Yea young guys don’t care about ergos because their body is fresh. When you get older your body gives you feedback. Lol. Thanks for your thoughts!

@georgedavall9449

Жыл бұрын

Evan, excellent Comment and you’re not alone! See my comment above ^^^ Stay safe and Healthy!

@ericmann1781

Жыл бұрын

I know exactly what you mean, living with CECS in my right forearm from 34 years old I literally need the lightest, least vibrating ergonomic grip tools I can get. I wish I could get Makita 12v in Canada but this gen 3 at least isn't so bad.

Very thoughtful discussion. Would be interesting to hear your current views on those ergonomics, a year or so later now.

The enlarged grips of the 2nd generations and beyond M12 tools have turned all these new ones into try before you buys. And I have returned many. More than a few of the Brushed versions are still my go-to's unless I need the power.

@georgedavall9449

Жыл бұрын

Excellent comment Bill. Milwaukee used to have different shape to their triggers, but these newer triggers that are rounded over at the bottom appear like they might be so comfortable, but they’re NOT! Milwaukee needs to change this, like Yesterday! My view is shared by quite a few well established KZread creators. I’m not flaming on Milwaukee; I’m willing to bet I have more M18 batteries and tools than most in here. My point, like Bill says, I will often times use my older M18 brushed hammer drill, or older M12 drill. And, having worked in the trades for many years, in another ‘Season’ of life, comfort is very important. I love my M18 Surge impact, but I often wish the handle shape, and especially that STUPID rounded over trigger, were not there! YMMV Peace!

@10:28 YES! This is what I am talking about. That lower point on that trigger will cause pain in the joint of one’s finger, with extended or heavy duty use. CHANGE the Stupid trigger, Milwaukee!!! Thanks for the video. Good stuff, and very good and thorough breakdown. Ignore any ignorant dislikes. Peace.

As a guy in his late 50's I love everything about M12 3rd generation except for removing batteries. I bought the combo drill2 days ago but squeezing the two notches to remove the batteries too hard and I hurt my hand. Sadly, I have to return them and get a Dewalt. The battery removal is too painful.

@MrCaribe65

9 ай бұрын

My right hand is arthritic now at 58. Don't get old, my friend. 👴

I've noticed the ergonomics of the gen 3 drill, I just got onto and haven't used it yet but It does feel a bit off. But I got it for $66 new on Amazon with the bare tool so I'm not complaining it's solid

Nice video review I have many Milwaukee m12 tools and I agree with you with the ergonomics part and I have big hands. You really start to notice it with extended use. Dewalt and Makita are far superior with comfort and why I have many of those tools that I tend to reach for more

@ericmann1781

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, I wish Makita's 12v was a larger ecosystem, actually I would just settle for actual availability for Makita's brushless 12v drill in Canada, had to settle with this instead. Also didn't like the Dewalt Xtreme 12v drill, the trigger is a bit farther out than on the m12 and it tenses up the forearm more than m12 gear. For me it's an issue since I basically live in permanence with CECS in my right forearm, any little advantage in ergonomics makes a big difference for me.

Thanks very much for this review. It caused me today to compare both the M12 Fuel (Gen 3) combo kit and the M18 Compact Brushless (model 3692-22CT) kit before deciding on one. Prior to seeing your review, I was leaning toward the M12 Fuel. But upon trying both, I came to the same conclusion you did on the ergonomics, and have just decided to keep the M18 Compact and return the M12 Fuel. The Compact simply felt better in the hand, with a more relaxed grip and more control. It's not just the lack of support above the grip that you point out, but also the thicker grip on the M12 - and I have large hands. The Compact tools are slightly heavier on the scale, but in the hand they almost feel lighter because the ergonomics are just better. And both the drill and impact driver are shorter and narrower on the Compact, so there's no real size advantage for the M12. And the M18 is more powerful. I also checked the variable speed triggers - important for woodworkers - and they have comparable levels of control. I'll miss the triple LED on the M12 Fuel impact driver, but otherwise I just liked the M18 Compact more.

@kennethkuhlman8864

Ай бұрын

Awesome! Glad I could help!

Geat review ...your right ergonomics has a lot as well..

surprisingly, you are the only person that has talked about the extra weight and the uselessness to most people of the m12 hammer drill. The Gen. 2, they did make a non-hammer version, but its hard to find, there are no package deals and never ever any sales… you are lucky just to find one in stock somewhere. Strange. I mean, I understand the idea of having the hammer feature on this this tool… for the people whom this is going to be their only drill. But I imagine, most pros and “pro-sumers” that use one of these, also have a larger drill for bigger and/or tougher jobs. But I suspect, that the majority of owners of the m12 drill, would prefer it to not have the hammer feature and for it to therefore be lighter.

Great review!

The most important thing about the Gen 3 hammer drill is the mechanical clutch, IMO. The rest of the ergos will be accustomed to by just using it......

You are so right about ergonomics.

Always find myself naturally using my middle finger for trigger pull on my impact. This new drill looks like it was designed more for that hold. I have large hands so I find them fairly ergonomic. The dewalts kinda pinched my index finger when I used them. I mostly prefer the m12 Milwaukee for the compactness with the smaller batteries. They fit in my tool belt and aren’t heavy. Haven’t tried the dewalt 12v lineup just because they have a similar form factor to the 20v lineup. I don’t see the point

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

All good points. The m12 def fit big hands with gloves. And the only dewalt I have is the 12v screwdriver which I like a lot. I’m getting used to the ergonomics, but it def is different. Now, the chuck issue might be a problem if you watch the second video I put out.

@georgedavall9449

Жыл бұрын

Exactly Konnor! Appreciate the comment!

Try the new one with gloves on I could see that maybe making a difference. A little more space for the extra padding of work gloves? I personally like the thicker m12 handles. Electrical installs when my hands are cramping up from working with wires and twisting a hundred wire nuts the bigger handle is a more kind of relaxed grip that cradles your palm, as opposed to the tighter narrower grip… if that makes sense haha

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

Yea good point. Like I said it’s hard to determine right at first if something works for you. Time is what really shows if it’s good or not.

Great video. As you said, there are plenty of videos about how many holes it can drill and how big of a hole it can drill, but what's more important in a compact drill is what it's like to actually use it. You forgot to mention the stupid yellow light though.

@procrastinator1842

Жыл бұрын

You mean the light that allows a higher colour rendering index?

@jkunz27

Жыл бұрын

@Procrastinator yeah. I prefer a nice bright-white LED like all the other brands have. This isn't art class! 😛

@procrastinator1842

Жыл бұрын

@@jkunz27 But it's easier on your eyes!

@jkunz27

Жыл бұрын

@@procrastinator1842 maybe it's because I'm getting older that I prefer the brighter white light.

I got rid of my Milwaukees and went back to Makita but now I'm reversing again. I had problems with Milwaukee triggers. Now I'm having trouble with Makitas locking up on Hammer or normal positions. Maybe I should try a DeWalt again.

While I do like the grip on my Dewalt's I always find my hand getting sore between index finger and thumb when applying a lot of pressure while drilling. Just because the grip is so narrow

Tbh that is disappointing if the drill doesn't feel right but hopefully its something that we can get used to. I went from fewalt 12v to m18 then m12. And that m12 was so terrible at first but i knew my hands weren't big either, but forced myself to get used to it and learn how to hold the tools better and adjust to it and saw no one else bitch about it and i spent the money already to upgrade from dew brushed to m12fuel. It takes time. Mayberry the gen 3 can be mostly for lighter jobs if the grip isn't doing it for us if all eles fails? Maybe for home? I love the chuck tho, i wonder if i can swap it on a gen 2?

I've noticed that trigger placement on the gen 3 m12 to be a little off for me to. I though it was just me. Not really bad but I don't notice it as much now. It's funny I also tried the middle finger pull to

@evanm.2300

Жыл бұрын

Id try to avoid mifdle finger pull tho. Id be worried of smashing in my index finger on a 2x4 lol(that happend to my over the whole handle, luckily it was a light smash, but i should'veused my m18 for that, but i was up on ladders and roofs and attics with alreadyheavy tools). Im really happy they slided the handle back more, thats one of the things i didn't like compared to my older dewalt 12v brushed handle

They obviously changed the trigger location to make you practice your trigger discipline.

I like the handle shape of the gen 3 a lot better than the gen 2. It's almost like they're smoothing out the backs to be like their pre-fuel era tools which is a little detail I can appreciate.

Good video. I have Milwaukee's new m12 impact driver and Makita's 12v CXT impact driver. I much prefer the handle of the Makita. However, the power of the Milwaukee is unbeatable. I wish Milwaukee would move to slide style batteries

@procrastinator1842

Жыл бұрын

But if you make a 6 cell slide pack...it's approaching the form size of m18...rendering the whole m12 line kinda pointless...

@jasonhoyt8232

Жыл бұрын

@@procrastinator1842 Good point. My Makita CXT is still pretty small though.

Bosch 12v impact and drill are really comfortable to hold and very compact and a 3 ah battery lasts a couple of days.

@g8beast679

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely right. I've got a Bosch FlexiClick and even the Bosch 12v tools have battery in the handle but they are comfortable. Notice that in Bosch, the single cell is at the back while 2 in the front under the trigger. While in Milwaukee, the single is under the trigger and 2 at the back, thus making it uncomfortable. The fat grip and battery removal, are the only reason keeping me with Dewalt 12v.

Same thing here mostly is center pull for me as well....

The soft start was the only good feature of the electronic clutch on the M 12.

Milwaukee tuyệt vời 😍🇻🇳🇲🇽🇺🇸

The bigger battery gives it more power, and allows you to stand the tool up.

The only way that Milwaukee M12 will have an ergonomic grip is if they go to a flat pack battery. I like their tools, but I love the grip on my Dewalt Xtreme tools..

That's really a personal preference I guess. Mines feel good. Not a deal breaker. But Dewalt has the best grip.

I don't know what it was, but I could not stand the feel of holding the m12 gen 2 drill. The impact on the other hand just works perfectly for me.

Got new gen3 m12 drill. It is worth upgrade. Ergonomics, 1 day to get used to it.

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

Cool

Was all set to get M12 tools, but started finding enough reddit posts and KZreadrs saying the M12 grip is too fat, unergonomic, and uncomfortable. That made me decide I have to make a trip to HD and check it out for myself. Unfortunately, really hard to judge as they have painful security clamps and chains around them. From what I could tell, the M18 line, Dewalt, and Makita, are definitely more comfortable as I could feel the bulge of the handle press against the pinky side of the palm. How long do you use the tools before you really start to feel the lack of ergonomics? You kept them though, the weight savings outweighs the comfort? I just don't know how much I should care about comfort if I just use them for weekend projects.

@kennethkuhlman8864

Ай бұрын

So my opinion on the grip is that it really doesnt matter in the long run. I just dont prefer the feel of the M12, not only the diameter but also the feel of having the base of the grip being the battery, its just not as solid feeling. So if I had to do it all over again I would probably buy the Gen4 M18 Fuel hammer drill and impact driver because they are super powerful, then I would get a smaller light duty tool like the Dewalt 12V screwdriver(its what I reach for almost every time around the house for day to day stuff) or maybe their 5-in-1 12V tool that has the different heads, but I have never used it. But if you dont have the 5-in-1 tool you can make due with the Milwaukee Shockwave Right Angle Adapter (48-32-2390) and a 12in long bit extender(48-32-4512). The bit extender lets you get screws that are close to a wall by bringing the tool farther away and it lets the angle get reduced. The power of M18 Fuel tools is just crazy compared to the M12 so you'll never have to ask yourself if you can get the job done. And the new Gen 4 M18 Fuel impact driver has excellent modulation compared the the older Gen 3 which suffered in that department. But they are a lot more money that M12. Its a hard decision though.

I don’t really care for the M12 ergonomics either. I wish Milwaukee would design their 12v tools more like Dewalt. I’ve heard they get pretty hot too.

Oddly enough, the Bosch 12v drivers feel much better because the batteries face the other way.

It’s all good

I just buy the combo gen 3 m12 and is a humer drill

Hey, @ 08:48; Don’t apologize or try and explain your feelings, etc. They are yours, and important. You nailed it with the DeWalt comment, and how they stay fairly consistent with their grips and the ergos. I feel like the tool Companies are NOW going to be engaging in “make it as Small as possible!” I own and use both, Milwaukee, and DeWalt. I tried out the new 20 Volt ‘tiny’ Dewalt Impact, and promptly took it back. It felt similar to what you were saying here. Cheap and seldom used tools, and a person just takes and accepts them for what they are. These level of Pro tools, need to be the best design possible. Oh, and my Second major gripe with Milwaukee, besides the trigger/ergo issues, is their dammed plastic castings! Why do you have to have like sharp points, and razor like edges on parts of the tools? FIX it NOW, Milwaukee!!! Hah, like they listening to little ole’ Me. 🤔🙄😂👍😊

Tell me you have small hands without telling me you have small hands…. Complain about the m12 grip size 😂 🤪

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

That actually made me laugh. 😂

@evanm.2300

Жыл бұрын

Lol mine r small too but lucky it proportional with me 🤣😭. M12 does take alot to get used to. U have to man hand the grip and stretch ur hand over it. I made it work over time tho ✊🏼👊🏼🤜😎

@TBLBill

Жыл бұрын

I'm in the same boat but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that m12 grips are just chunky, and their trigger lineup is less natural the more experience you have with holding pistols and rifles. You almost expect the grip and trigger to be lined up similarly, but they aren't

@Peripatetic_Proletariat

Жыл бұрын

The 12v line up was made for my Alpha hands 👊

@justinklein2982

Жыл бұрын

My hands are large in every glove size I’ve ever tried, and I hate the M12 grip. I still own them, but it’s one of my biggest issues with the system.

If you have a 3d printer you can make a support lol

These tools are 1. Top heavy 2. Grip is too ‘fat’. Making it uncomfortable oh old for prolonged period of time

gen 3 and gen 2 both are hammer drills

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

Yes they mostly offer the hammer drill version but they also sell a non-hammer drill. Like the one in the video.

@tarzansingh8436

Жыл бұрын

@@kennethkuhlman8864 what's the product code for the non-hammer one?

@bigal1419

Жыл бұрын

@@tarzansingh8436 3403 and Hammer is 3404.

My 3rd gen m12 drill is terrible. Overheats with no load at all in under 2 minutes. Sometimes it’s around 1 minute and it’s flashing overheated. It’s absolutely ridiculous and the worst electronic tool I’ve ever owned, even over a $20 Walmart drill I got 10 years ago.

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

Damn that sucks. They are good about fixing their stuff though. Make a claim with them. You’d be surprised.

@CodyLamson

Жыл бұрын

@@kennethkuhlman8864 it’s not even a week old lol I’ll just return the whole set but unsure of what alternatives I have

@CodyLamson

Жыл бұрын

@@kennethkuhlman8864 also they are absolutely terrible at fixing their stuff in my experience, they wanted $91 to fix a lightly used brushed ratchet plus shipping I’m absolutely good on that. I got a fuel ratchet brand new for $100. They’re very much letting me down these days and I have a massive collection that’s about to just be sold off since their tools are very clearly absolute garbage now

@kennethkuhlman8864

Жыл бұрын

@@CodyLamson yea return that for sure. I’d try another one maybe? Also if you’re pushing a 12v that hard maybe the M18 is a better choice? Only you know how hard your working it so it’s your call.

@CodyLamson

Жыл бұрын

@@kennethkuhlman8864 it’s not even really hard work, just lots of run time. I do detailing so I run drill brushes for over an hour sometimes and I can chew through more than 5-6ah easily in that time. But this new drill honestly cute out every 2 minutes using it and it’s completely unusable. I really needed it to be as light and compact as possible. No lie, my old brushed m12 did the job flawlessly for over an hour at a time with absolutely no issues at all. I decided to “upgrade” and here we are lol

Gen 3 m12 is not a hummer drill

@ronnietarnacke5153

5 ай бұрын

Wrong

use your middle finger