Fun fact the first MIG-15's downed during dogfights in Korea weren't downed by F-86's they were downed by the Navy's lovely F9F Panther.

@sericono9077

Жыл бұрын

In fact there was an American pilot that downed 4 Migs in the same dogfight when Migs attacked him. He landed his Panther full of holes but still flyable. That's why during WWII Grumman was called ironwork.

@sblack48

Жыл бұрын

Probably because being carrier based they got to the theatre first.

@felixgaede6754

10 ай бұрын

A Mig15 was once shot down by an F4U

@bong4538

Ай бұрын

@@felixgaede6754 When I was a kid I'm always confused to the F4U and FH Phantom 😁

@felixgaede6754

Ай бұрын

@@bong4538 Not sure if you are only telling your personal story here or if you are trying to tell me that I was cunfusing the Phantom with the Corsair. But if so, then no, I actually mean the Corsair

Finally some one who give the deserved credits to the german design used for both planes.

The F-86 also had a flying tail which made it handle better in the trans-sonic region whereas the MiG-15 had a tradtional horizontal stabiliser and elevator arrangement.

@bobroberts2371

3 жыл бұрын

The F-86 was used as a backdrop for many 1956 Plymouth car ads.

@hambone4402

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobroberts2371 How interesting. I was a kid in ‘56 but I don’t remember that. Thanks for sharing.

@fredferd965

2 жыл бұрын

This is true! Also, having the horizontal stabilizer and elevator at the top of the tail was a design misconception that caused a lot of trouble over time. The F-104 had one. There is a danger of the main wing blocking out the airflow over the tail during certain kinds of stalls, creating a severe loss of control. The British airliner, the BAC-111 had a "T" tail, and their "answer" to the problem was to have a stick shaker that would warn the pilots when they were about to get into trouble. That's a crude "fix" at best. The best place for the tail surfaces, preferably a flying tail, was low on the fuselage, but the Russians were copying a lot of data from the WWII Germans and, for once, the Germans got it wrong. The transonic handling qualities of the Mig-15 were shaky at best. For all of that, it had a lot of good qualities too.

@sblack48

Жыл бұрын

While the sabre did have a stabilator it was no more maneuverable in pitch than the mig 15.

@weirdguy564

Жыл бұрын

That is true, but, as ever, it is more complicated than that. The first model F-86A's didn't have the flying tail. They had conventional tails with elevators on the back. 500+ built. It was the "E" model that switched to the all flying tail where the fin as a whole moves. 450 built, and then the "F" model as well, and that was the majority with over 2200 built.

Your F-86 is from the Royal Canadian Air force. We flew this aircraft for a long time. What a great fighter.

@killer1963daddy

3 жыл бұрын

Canadair produced a superior variation to the North American product

@bobroberts2371

3 жыл бұрын

The F-86 was used as a backdrop for many 1956 Plymouth car ads.

@appa609

3 жыл бұрын

CL-13

@ralphhalliwellwright7652

3 жыл бұрын

@@appa609 ye

@cabobs2000

2 жыл бұрын

They had one flying in air shows for the 2010 flying centenial

"What fool will sell us their secrets?"

@MrDgwphotos

4 жыл бұрын

The Soviets never paid the British for their engine design, as I understand it.

@billdewahl7007

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrDgwphotos They didn't. But caving to the Soviets was nothing new.

@reluctantconformist

3 жыл бұрын

The U.S. also stole fighter tech from the british around then too 🤣

@mackjsm7105

3 жыл бұрын

@@billdewahl7007 I'm Polish and I can relate to what you said!

@tbyte007

3 жыл бұрын

Same fool that will do BREXIT paid by the Russian propaganda machine ...

Oh thanks a bunch bro. Enjoyed your Vid huge ! Am a cancer patient ( worry not because I have both fists doubled up and will fight like a junkyard dog ) and sometimes I get bored as heck. One can only read a surf KZread and such so much. Then along comes a new one that entertains me and mucho gracias for that ! 5 star vid in my book.

I've heard about the differences between the MIG-15, and the F-86. Though each had their strengths, at the end of the day, it was a fair fight.

@justinsane332

2 жыл бұрын

yeah mig 8n vertical, but sabre as a rate fighter

@justinsane332

2 жыл бұрын

mig guns harder for pilots to aim, but hit a lot harder when they landed. sabre had better ballistics, lower caliber. its a classic 6 in one hand situation.

@douglaswesson2458

11 ай бұрын

A fair fight as far as equipment, but it's the pilot that counts in the end. With that said, I knew a couple of retired Air Force fighter pilots who said that the F 86 was the sweetest flying plane they had ever flown.

He really loves his job.

@combatdoc21

3 жыл бұрын

If I had his job I would be.

@deanfawcett2085

3 жыл бұрын

(inhales deeply) yeh man he sure does haha

The F-86 Sabre would have much better destructive firepower if it had been armed with four or six 20 mm cannons instead of the six .50 cal machine guns. The USAF learned its lessons after the Korean War and armed the newer F-86Ds and F-86Hs and the later F-100s with 20 mm cannons.

Boosted controls, automatic leading edge slats, a stabilator and the newer lead computing gun sight were refinements that gave the Sabre an edge. Boosted controls levels the playing field by reducing physical exertion in a tight turning fight. The Canadians had the most powerful Sabre using their own turbine of 7,500 lbs thrust.

Great job on the video, can't wait for the museum to re-open.

We, Australia, put a Rolls Royce Avon engine in it and 4 20mm cannons.

This was a fantastic video! I was due to visit the MoF from Australia last year but alas covid happened. I look forward to visiting again in a few years.

I am glad you guys were able to take on Matt from Wings Over the Rockies! I loved his content from there and it's great to have him at my favorite museum!

Out of all the jet aircraft the United States used in its history, the F 86 will always be my favorite

@ryanb9749

2 жыл бұрын

The F86 is becoming my favorite. It just looks so cool and has a lot of interesting stories. The last gun fighters.

@andrewlabat9963

Жыл бұрын

Mine too..

@ryanb9749

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewlabat9963 My favorites used to be thr FW190, Me163, and Me262, and the F teens. But the Mig 15 and the F86 are both REALLY cool.

Excellent stuff. Details, details. Great video. Thanks.

I want to fly a MiG-17. My all time favorite plane.

The wing fences are not there to solve the "hand built" assertion. But to solve an issue the F86 also shared. F86F's had similar fences, and so do planes up till this day.

@drperky7008

3 жыл бұрын

sources? and which other modern planes still have wing fences please.

@Pitchlock8251

3 жыл бұрын

@@drperky7008 MIg17, Mig 19, A-6 intruder, a lot of airliners use just a fence along the leading edge. And its not to fix "build quality" issues, but it one way to fix an aerodynamic issue all swept wing aircraft have. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_fence

@TripleAce1

3 жыл бұрын

Function of the wing fence was to prevent washout of air flow which was a pervasive problem in high swept wings. Mig-19, had the largest wing fences.

@charlestaylor253

3 жыл бұрын

@@TripleAce1 Wing fences are a rather simple solution to maintain stable, front-to-back airflow over highly-swept wings at high speeds. Although they're highly effective for this purpose they also cause a degree of increased aerodynamic drag, especially while maneuvering at lower speeds. Western designers have traditionally looked at more complex solutions at solving high-speed airflow deviations over swept wings, preferring to not use wing fences at all if avoidable. If not, they tend to use the smallest fences possible. For example, the first fighters designed to routinely operate at supersonic speeds in level flight were the North American F-100 Super Sabre and the Mikoyan/Gurevitch MiG-19 "Farmer". Both aircraft featured highly-swept wings designed to decrease compressibilty near, at, and beyond Mach 1 at altitude. The F-100 used wide-span, variable-position leading-edge slats on both wings, combined with two very small wing fences near the tips to stabilize the high-speed airflow over the wings. The MiG-19, by contrast, used two extremely large mid-span wing fences with no variable leading-edge slats at all to solve the same purpose. This amounts to different design philosophies used by the designers of different countries to solve similar problems...

@diehardcat

2 жыл бұрын

That comes from the inherent bias that most westerners have against the USSR then and Russia now. They must find flaws even when they're not there! The USSR or Russia always has to be below the US' level on everything. Notice how he said the Russians got 'help' from German designs while the US, which essentially built the same thing, simply 'used' German designs?

Nice Job Matthew, very informational

Very good. Thank you.

I really appreciate the detailed information

Interesting how people say the Me-262 was the superior aircraft over Allied jets because it had axial flow engines of the future but ignore the fact that the F-86 had an axial flow engine while the Mig-15 had a radial flow engine.

@appa609

3 жыл бұрын

lower specific fuel consumption. Radials are less efficient

@ryanb9749

2 жыл бұрын

262 is a 1st generation jet fighter and 86/15 were 2nd generation fighters.

@laure5333

11 ай бұрын

Actually, it's called...centrifugal flow...not "radial"...!!!

You guys are the best! Can't wait to come back and see you all!

@museumofflight

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you! We can't wait to be back in action.

Hmmm. He concludes the major difference between the two was in the mid and later Korean war the F86 used more experienced pilots. In the beginning, the Russians did. So....that's not really a reason to conclude the F86 was that much better.

@timthorson52

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing when I saw your comment. The conclusion about which air raft was better was due to pilot skill rather than the characteristics that distinguished the airplanes.

@et76039

2 жыл бұрын

The last MiG-15 pilot to be shot down in the Korean War was, by the Russians' own admission, a Russian pilot. Per standing orders, he committed suicide to avoid capture.

@matheuscerqueira7952

2 жыл бұрын

It is better because of the bubble canopy, situational awareness is OP. Look for John Boyd

wow what a great video. some new things there. i had no idea of the mig 15 being hand built! indeed in a russian documentary soviet pilots say the koreans had around 20 hours of training and that was it such was the pressure.

Sabre wins for aesthetics alone, my favorite aircraft when it comes to that

How cool is that ?? Freaking cool !!

Just found this channel. Very cool!

I think it was the British Labor party that gave the NENE engine to Stalin. (for research purposes of course). Australia, the RAAF, later took up the Sabre and built it around the RR Avon engine, removed the wing leading edge slats, bigger air intake, 30 mm canon and a lot bigger range. cheers.

@drperky7008

3 жыл бұрын

nae nae engine

@alecblunden8615

2 жыл бұрын

I know the ALP can't spell, but the British equivalent could - they just put Comradely solidarity above the national interest As to the CAC Avon Sabre - spot on.

@PeteCourtier

2 жыл бұрын

@@drperky7008 sounds like roadrunner😂

Sir kurt tank also designed hf-23 Marut for India...It was India's first jet fighter plane.

@hudsonch

3 жыл бұрын

Do you mean HF-24? That fighter wasn't very successful.

Had never seen the firing pass against a B-29 before. It's at 9:19.

Nice documental! 👍

This video gives the impression that both aircraft are roughly the same size. When looking at both from above, at Smithsonian # 2 in Virginia, the Mig-15 looks much smaller, a virtual sports car.

"How cool it's that!?!"

I don't believe the Soviets put wing fences on the Mig-15 because of poor hand-built construction as you suggest. They put them there because of design flaws inherent to the wing itself. They were there to block span-wise air flow. The Americans would have used vortex generators instead.

@leonidyevseyev888

2 жыл бұрын

- you are right about them trying to correct the air-flow with those flaps.

Hi man,I loved the comparison, very knowable with interesting facts on both planes. My favourite has to be the Mig 15, but what do I know. Peaceful respect. ✌️ ❤

The F-86 looking mildly suprised like •o• And the MiG 15 looks just astounded like •○•

@MrDino1953

Жыл бұрын

And that’s the real difference between them. The look of mild surprise always wins against completely dumbfounded.

These two planes really stand out! Basically my two favorite aircraft, and dont forget the dr-1 triplane that the red baron died in! Its the coolest of all.

I've been to the awesome Museum Of Flight. How cool is that!?!

Goodness, this guy speaks as if he’s going a Saturday morning kids show?

@bobroberts2371

3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if pot is legal Seattle?

@brendonrutherford5118

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah interesting video obviously but I have to say, get on with it as this video is not supposed to be for the entertainment of young kids but for grown men!! I have to move on otherwise I'll be here until next summer!!

the 50s were higher velocity and higher fire rate; making them more accurate and got more hits. the f86 was armored and far more survivable.

I’ve lived in Washington my entire life but I still haven’t been to the museum of flight yet. I can see the first 747 parked outside when I drive by on the freeway. I need to go soon.

@museumofflight

9 ай бұрын

Get yourself here!

@patfromamboy

9 ай бұрын

@@museumofflight when are you open?

@museumofflight

9 ай бұрын

@@patfromamboy We're open seven days a week, 10 AM - 5 PM.

@patfromamboy

9 ай бұрын

@@museumofflight Thanks a lot!

@newdefsys

7 ай бұрын

Locals rarely visit the touristy stuff of their own town. I spent a few months in Orlando (back in the 90s) and I couldn't find anyone that was up to go to Disney.

I love how he is whispering I think its cause he knows most of us are watching this at night

@alexm566

3 жыл бұрын

10:50 PM...

In an otherwise excellent documentary, you left out an important fact. Yes, the Mig 15 outperformed the F 86 at higher altitudes, but on the deck the Saber and the Mig were were evenly matched. In fact, the Saber was as much as 50 mph faster than the Mig nearer to the ground.

2:30 “for civilian purposes only”

Hey Matt, your pronunciation is incorrect; its not the 'Ne-Ne' engine (lol) its pronounced 'Neen'; the engine was named after the river Nene in England. Rolls Royce named some of their jet engines after Rivers in England such as the Trent and the Derwent.

Still an excellent video! 👌

That's crazy to put a complete rookie into a MiG with that complicated aiming system. I bet that was a huge factor in that lopsided ratio. It must have been overwhelming for those new MiG pilots.

My grandad flew the F86 Saber and F84 Thunderjet as well as a menagerie of other aircraft during his time in the USAF.

That was interesting

Feck!...i want to live in that museum.......Brilliant!

Ha ha! Excellent education in a few minutes, thanks brother from Wenatchee! See you soon!

Listening to you made me feel I'm back watching Sesame Street. Sheeesh...

@museumofflight

Жыл бұрын

Sunny Day Sweepin' the clouds away On my way to where the air is sweet

Best description of a mig 15 I ever heard was “flying tractor”.

As a Brit living near the river Nene I'm definitely aware there's some controversy over how it should be pronounced. I can say with certainty that "Nae-Nae" is not either of them 😂

Man I envy your job Keep up the good work :D

That RCAF Canadair license-built Sabre you have had a more powerful Orenda powerplant than the GE J47. ;) Thank you for keeping it indoors in such pristine condition!

Which Canadian F86r was that in the video, mark 6s put out 7200 thrust compared to the early US F86 5200.

Nice video.. Gotta love the F86..!!

that was great F8 six m15 video

They looked so similar coz the one with stripes was a copy of the other one, so had to have those similarities

North American had a knack for building beautiful planes. F-86 could win on looks alone. But it had the chops too.

Man, no matter how awesome MiG would look, but i am a huge fan of F-86 Sabres. I love this aircraft. Simply Awesome American.

Russian piloted Mig 15s blasted them out of the sky, one night the Allied air loss was so heavy that they named it black day lol.

As always, pilot skill by far is the most importatn factor be it tank or plane, but great video =)

@drperky7008

3 жыл бұрын

@Ignacio Muñoz Diaz what a pendejo

@johna.4334

2 жыл бұрын

@Lil Agin Chill

Its intresting that from WW11 with Spitfires and Messeshmit 109s Then Mig and Sabres both similar

You missed a little bit of interesting (and facepalming) information on the Russians getting the Nene. Aside from little things like having shoes with special soles when they were given a tour of the plant that made them (picking up metal shavings for material analysis,) the British had them promise they'd only use the engines for civil use. To which the Russians, of course, went "Da, da, of course, we promise!" ... and promptly shoved it in fighter aircraft.

Don't all airframe mounted pilot controlled aircraft guns get different aim points to a convergence range (around 1000ft)?

The Americans got to wear pressure suits, permitting pilots to withstand higher Gs. The 50 BMG ammo was API (Armor Piercing Incendiary), allowing the pilot to reach 1000 yards at high altitudes ≈ 40,000 feet. The Migs weren’t too sturdy, and often as not, the API rounds would light them up. The 37mm cannon could take out a plane with a single shot, but its trajectory looked like a punkin’ ball. The American pilots were more experienced and just better trained. I recall the flag at Nellis AFB (Red Flag - the Air Force version of Top Gun) flew at half-mast a lot more often than you would hope. Oops, I’m thinking 1962; I don’t know what was going on in ’52, but the story is too cool to leave out.

His voice reminds me of Owen Wilson F-86 baby!

@johna.4334

2 жыл бұрын

And his appearance is that of a Doonsberry character.

went from Air over the Rockies to the museum of flight come back bro

Do Video on Star Fighter

I like his catching phrase “how cool is that “. So please do carry on the other show.

It’s funny how we got that MIG it came from a Korean defector

If this guy says "this guy, and how cool is that" one more time....

I love how much he sounds like Owen Wilson

I would love to see them resurrect this plane. I feel like there is a place for it in our arsenal.

Today, Russian and American historians such as Cookie Sewall and Diego Zampinni admit that on 10/01/1955, not 10/08, there was the first kill of a jet by another jet. An F-80 Shooting Star patrol engaged three MiG-15s and veteran First Lieutenant Semyon Fyodorovich Khominich spotted 10 F-80F aircraft. Khomonich turned left, leaving the sun behind in combat formation. As a result of their attack, an F-80 was shot down. He opened fire at 800 meters, and stopped firing at less than 200 meters. Coming out of his attack, the lieutenant struggled to gain altitude. Major Bordun with the rest of the team attacked four F-80s that were trying to attack Khominich. The Americans went to the others without success, and finally abandoned the fight..." "...The Russian-built fighter was flown by five Air Force pilots. The F-86A-5 Saber underperformed when compared to the MIG-15. However, the superior training and tactics of the US pilots established a "kill ratio" better than 8:1 over MIG. [ kill-ratio also fixed: 1.3 to 1 ] (Photo: National Archives and Records Administration) *www.aviation-history.com/mikoyan/mig15.html*

Everything is cool for this guy.

Thanks

He is really good.

The 86's radar was the biggest factor.

I think the F-86 represents everything that American aviation can be. Plus it’s a sexy looking ride.

Can Matthew say "Alright, Alright, Alright!"?

Sabre dance, baby!

I ❤ Mig 15.....

Subscribed, just because he is like the Snoop Dogg of curators. 😅

Wing fins on MiG reasoning sounds BS but I may be wrong

This guy is like a close copy of owen wilson lol. So chill

@museumofflight

2 жыл бұрын

The chillest.

Thanks Matthew, very informative video. I have always wondered why the two jets look so similar. As usual , the CCCP beat us to the punch, but in the end we built the superior aircraft.

@onlyhereformoney175

Жыл бұрын

not really superior

F86 is a hero plane of 1965 war in between India and Pakistan, Pakistani pilot M.M. Alam made world record in 1965 by F86

HIPPIES LIVE!!!

The RR engine is pronounced NEEEEN or Knee with an "n" on the end, It's part of the river series and that is still going with the Trent.

@newdefsys

7 ай бұрын

Nay-Nay sounds like the response you give when someone says NaNu-NaNu to you

How cool is this? :-D

I think both of these planes were awsome for its time, but still all depence to the pilot skills, how you said the trained soviet pilots were good but the chinese and korean pilot without experience just cant compare to the good american aces

@markelalagoz7363

2 жыл бұрын

Privet , I am an American of Russian origin and my wife is from the former Soviet Union. I have always liked Soviet and Russian equipment. Would you be able to do me a favor? Can you get me a ShVAK 20 mm cannon round? I will pay for the item and shipping. When I get it I will get you a gift. Thank you, Markel

Pilot quality first. 2nd was the shower of six 50cals.; yet ironically, it was Stalin who said: ‘Quantity has a quality all its own’.

How cool is that....really?

@johna.4334

2 жыл бұрын

Really

Nice, BUT... the F-86 never came from the Fw-183, only the Mig-15 came from this german project. The F-86 also came from a german design, the "Me P-1101".

And where is the Swedish jet the "Tunnan" or the Barrel?

The British when Mig-15s start harassing the Americans over Korea: *get NENE'd*