I did my thesis of coal mines of the area , specifically in the Flint MI area. There were a couple of mines in Flint, one is under I-69 (channel 12 is on the south side of 69 and was where all the processing of the coal took place) and directly to the North side of 69 is a street called "Sunnydale" which unbeknownst to the property owners on that street was part of said mine. One of the houses on the street has a pipe coming out of the ground to release the pent up gasses and Sunnydale the street itself has to be repaired frequently because it is subsiding. Another mine was the "We Cheer" mine and that was on the S.E corner of Center and Robt T... My cousin worked at the A.C plant that was on the N.E corner and he said back in the early 70's GM was doing some work involving heavy equipment. Evidently as this construction was going on, it caused a tunnel of the mine ( that ran under the plant)to collapse and some of the heavy equipment fell into the hole and GM just left it in the hole to use as filler. The mines in Flint closed around 1919-20 just after WW I , the quality of the coal is of a poor quality. The last active coal mine MI, which closed in the late 70's early 80's is in Corruna MI , right on Corruna rd. Between the towns of Unionville and Sebewaing on M25 is a giant tailings pile readily seen while driving down 25. The piles in Corruna are not that tall so seeing or knowing the mine was there is evident

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The ones in Corruna lasted into the 70's? Everything I was finding said none made it past the 50's. Was the coal seam thicker there to make it worth mining? I'm not surprised by the collapses in Flint. I know a shaft collapsed in Jackson, under I-94. The state's tried to fill in what they can find, but even if they know where the mines hit the surface, underground maps are harder to come by.

@chrischapel9165

Ай бұрын

​​​@@Industrial_Revolutionin regards to the coal seam petering out in Flint, no , it was a quality issue...I want to say that the powers that be wanted to get away from using the coal from Flint before they did in 1919 or early 20's but, WWI and the wars needs kept demand for the poor coal going for a few more years. If you are interested in history of the region/state particularly Flint , the Buick gallery in Flint next to the Sloane museum is a FANTASTIC source of info...btw Sloanes were coal "Magnet's" LOL of the area (birch run ,burt) not sure if they are the Sloanes from Flint

@fastsetinthewest

Ай бұрын

I lived on M-21 near Corunna. As one drove past those mines on M-21 in the 50s and 60s toward Owosso, there was a big tailings hill that had a road advertising sign on top of it. It's gone now. Our family lived at 7648 E M-21 Corunna. Behind our house was an abandoned shallow ore pit area. The ore pit shows on old Shiawassee County maps.

@motorcitymadman146

Ай бұрын

great info

@M.Campbell-Sherwood

13 сағат бұрын

@@chrischapel9165 Hmmm, I wonder if the Sloans I went to school with in the 80s and 90s are part of that family 🤔.

I was always told that there are filled in coal mine shafts behind Saginaw High School. In the 1980's I belonged to an HO scale model railroad club. One of our members was Chuck Hoover who ran the Castle Museum of Saginaw County. Chuck I believe was from St. Charles, Mi. and his portion of the club layout was a working re-creation of the St. Charles mine. His tipple had a working conveyor that carried real coal ground to appear to scale. Model trains would pull HO scale open coal hoppers up to the tipple and he would flip a switch to begin loading a car. Now, my research reveals that the coal coming out of that mine and many others nearby was of high pretty quality nearing or equal to that mined in Pennsylvania. The reason coal mining ceased then was less an issue of quality and more to do with the economics as you outlined but - another big reason is that the coal seams in Michigan were and are severely fractured. Michigan's ice age glaciers caused the ground to heave and shift dramatically. A promising vein could go on for miles or disappear after only a few hundred yards. Once it was lost there was no way of knowing where to pick it up again. I have heard it said that there is as much quality anthracite coal still in the ground in Michigan as in any Appalachian field.

@tiddybopper

Ай бұрын

Fantastic. Seriously, thanks for sharing

I grew up in Bay City and there were coal mines all over the county with tunnels or fingers, that would run out under the Saginaw Bay. I even remember a spoil pile out near Unionville in the thumb. Another item that was mined heavily was salt. The old pictural maps of Bay City show numerous salt mines all along the Saginaw River.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

There's still one huge salt mine in Detroit. I think all the others in the area are gone. Even the one in Detroit closed for a few years.

@aowbsx

Ай бұрын

Yeah! I’m from there too and I remember being kind of shocked to find out that a lot of the vacant lots over off north Union are because of an old mine underneath. 🤯

@chrischapel9165

13 сағат бұрын

@@williamkaczmarek3996 so salt mines led to so many aspects of this regions industrial revolution that changed the world. I can't recall what came first the coal mining or salt mines. There are several salt licks in the greater Genesee,shiawassee, Saginaw COs etc..but when drilling for potable water salt was discovered along with the coal ..so back then they had all those tree tops laying around( from the lumber era ), a fire hazard waiting to happen...so they used the tops for fuel boiling the salt water to render the salt...So one thing led to another but basically Dow took advantage of the salt, Durant took over a carriage plant and would soon make the horseless carriage i.e GM ... even Linda Rondstadts grampa was a inventor and created a company that would be bought out and moved to Massilon OH , GE... but it all dovetailed off the salt and coal mines...i gave the cliff notes version...etc...

Some term correction: horizontal tunnels are called drifts. Vertical cuts are shafts and pulleys are sheaves.

There used to be remnants of a coal mine about a half mile north of M-46, 3-4 miles east of Saginaw. Always saw it on the way to Grandma and Grandpa’s house in the 1970s. My uncle still lives in that house which still has its wood-fired furnace. Grandpa used to use coal, of course.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Once you start looking for them, more start to appear. The spoils piles can really stand out. A lot of them are gone, but when I was driving through the area, I saw several more.

My Dad burned Coal in the Fireplace and the briquettes would last for ever and the smell I will never forget !!! He had it trucked in from PA/OH back in the day when I was growing up.

@Industrial_Revolution

5 сағат бұрын

Before electricity it was common in homes. A lot of people burned coal because it was a lot easier than burning wood, since it was hotter and lasted longer.

I grew up in Haslett.. we always heard that williamston school was built over a coal mine and there was a 3 acre swimming hole called the williamston pits that was a mineshaft that filled in with water

Very interesting. I never knew there were coal mines in this part of Michigan. Local history is very interesting, and the younger generations aren't learning it, which is a shame. Thanks for sharing this.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

We just need to make it fun and interesting so more people will want to learn about it.

Great video, thank you for sharing. I've been to the Big Cheif mine several times as a kid growing up in Saginaw, and everytime was exciting. Seeing the inside again unlocked some core memories 👍

My Great-Great Grandfather was a coal miner in the Jackson mines. Another instance of undocumented coal mines. About a year ago, the I94 highway reconstruction in Jackson ran into an unforeseen problem - they hit one of the abandoned mines near Cooper street and the roadway started sinking. Oops!

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

They hit another one? I heard about one that happened maybe 5-10 years ago on I-94.

10:22 great view from the top. Thanks for the tour

This is good timing, I’ve lived in St Charles my entire life, and hadn’t known about this site until I stumbled upon it a couple weeks ago. Thanks for the video. It’s nice to learn a little more about where I live.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

There's some cool stuff over there, but be sure to call before you visit. With me, they were pretty flexible, but they don't want the public there when there's school groups there.

My old elementary school in Jackson was built over an old mine. No one knew until part of the parking lot drive caved in because an old shaft had collapsed beneath it.

@Industrial_Revolution

13 күн бұрын

That's happened quite a bit, all over the place. I hear I-94's partially collapsed into old mines a couple times around Jackson.

Live in Michigan and love the history lesson…

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Thanks. I have more coming up from Michigan.

Born and raised in Michigan. Never knew we had a coal industry. You think Michigan mining and all you think of is iron ore. When you were walking around the foundation of the steam engine, the large well would be where the flywheel would be and the raised pad with the studs in it would be the mounting pad for the actual engine itself. I.E. Cylinder, base, valve gear, all that stuff.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Yep. Iron and copper mines. Locations like that are where I get to combine engineering and archaeology to figure out a site. I knew almost nothing about the site before I got there, and only found a couple pictures of the tipple. I love being able to go to a site and figure out how things worked. Now I get to share that.

@haredr6511

Ай бұрын

I always think of salt and limestone for Michigan mining. I believe MI has the world’s largest known salt vein, and a thick layer of limestone sits just under the surface of most of the lower peninsula. It’s pretty cool to know there was active coal mining at one point. I wonder what else is under the limestone.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Don't forget iron and copper mining.

I've walked the Woodland Trail at Shiawassee many times! I never knew it was once a rail line, I thought it was just another dike. I've been to that St. Charles site, too. But we didn't get into the museum. I had an uncle who worked a coal mine somewhere in the Saginaw area. Side note: Great mic!

Willamston has a lake on the east side of town that is a former mine shaft for a coal mine. It filled with water about 100 years ago, leaving much of the mining equipment at the bottom of the now lake.

@Industrial_Revolution

10 күн бұрын

Mining equipment was often abandoned in mines, especially bigger equipment. It usually just wasn't worth taking it apart and bringing it back out. The lake part, though, is interesting. Was this an open pit mine? Sounds bigger than just a shaft entrance.

@cdjhyoung

10 күн бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution The story that goes with the mind in Williamston is that the mine flooded over night so badly and quickly that there was no rescuing the mine. The lake is less than three acres so it would seem this was a shaft mine with an excavated area at the top of the shaft.

There is an Old Coal Mines was On Lapeer Rd. Running Parallel to I-69 From The City of Flint to The City of Burton Michigan. It eventually Started Taking in Water But the Pumps wasn’t Fast enough so they Shut the Mine Down.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Flooding seems to be one of the two big things that shuts down mines. Either you exhaust the vein or the mine fills up with water. The first steam engines were built to manage mine flooding, and it's still an issue in mining, today.

I grew up in Michigan and had no idea either that there was a coal industry in the state. Detroit Edison has its own locomotives and train cars to haul coal from West Virginia to the Monroe Power Plant, where my dad worked as an engineer. Of course, that plant was built and running around 1970 and since it is so large that it needs a two mile long coal train pretty much every day to run, it is doubtful that the Michigan mines could supply the place. Are the mine shafts still down there? If so, they must be filled with water by now.... Great video!

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It seems most weren't "filled" so much as the entrances sealed. Jackson's had at least one, maybe two collapses under I-94. In the comments, there's people who have mentioned sinkholes here and there, too.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Henry Ford had his own railroad for a while, too. He bought the Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton railroad to move coal from Ironton, OH to Dearborn, MI for the Rouge plant. A couple of the locomotives from there are in Greenfield Village now.

Grew up in St.Charles and loved going there as a kid. Great video! 👍

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Wish my school trips went there, but I was too far away.

Grand Ledge had coal mines too and there was one near Albion. There was an open pit mine in Williamston.

@Industrial_Revolution

29 күн бұрын

I saw pictures of the mine entrance at Grand Ledge, right on the river. A friend and I went looking for it, but it looks like it's been filled in.

As I recall, there were some settling issues in some backyards on the west side of Bay City from a long forgotten mine there.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

I'm not surprised. Coal isn't really all that uncommon, it's just where it's economically viable to mine it. I was in a park in Indiana a couple weeks ago and saw a "family coal mine" which was small and shallow that they think was just used to the family for their own use.

Another big challenge for coal miners around Saginaw was evident in your video - water. That whole area is very low and wet. Keeping the mines dry enough to work must have been a constant challenge.

@Industrial_Revolution

15 күн бұрын

That's the case with a lot of mines. The first steam engines were built as mine pumps.

Nicely done Video! Michigan is my home. I knew that we had some Coal mines, however I never knew where they were located. I remember that it was poor quality coal, but that was about it. Thanks for sharing this History!

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It's weird that there were all these mines all over and so many of us never knew about them, even through they weren't shut down all that long ago.

@jasonlawrence2143

Ай бұрын

​@@Industrial_Revolution Great video. Could you a video about Haven Hill in Highland state recreation area?

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It's not really Industrial Revolution, but as it happens, I made one quite a few years ago. Working with the friends' group in the park, we've made a lot of progress restoring those buildings since then. You can see the documentary I made on Amazon (Rediscovering Edsel Ford's Haven Hill) but it's not currently on youtube.

@jasonlawrence2143

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution Thanks.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

I'm out there pretty frequently. Stop by and say hi if you see any of us volunteers out there working on restoring buildings.

Many sections of this magnificent country of ours have unique stories. For instance, From Woodbury, PENN going west there are numerous iron ore mines. Those mines produced the purist steel for years. Many families made their living mining that iron ore.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Mining, especially small scale mining, went on all over the place. I was on my way home from volunteering in a museum in Indiana yesterday and detoured to a state park for some hiking on the way home. There's a small coal mine there they say was probably just a family mine, just to get enough coal for the family to use.

There was also coal found in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula in town of crystal falls some of the coal was mined on the surface in this iron ore mine.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

I didn't know about that, but I'm not surprised. There's sort of a fuzzy line between peat and lignite coal. A lot of people actually mined and burned peat, after they dug it out from peat bogs and left it out to dry.

@carlfitzpatrick5864

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution this is a vien that is over 90 feet thick and 60 feet wide I’m not sure of the length. In iron river there was a university of Wisconsin geologist that was looking for evidence of Cyanobacteria the bacteria that created the oxygen on earth he came across a layer of coal with fossilized remains of the bacteria that proved his theory this coal had to be sandwiched between layers of slate and hematite iron ore. This was back in 1957

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

That's big enough to be commercially viable, if it were good quality. If it was right up against the hematite (highest quality iron ore), I'm not surprised they mined it. It was there and they'd already dug up to it. All they had to do was pick it up.

@carlfitzpatrick5864

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution to the mining company it was waste rock to go around. There’s stories of these coal layers between iron ore running hundreds of feet deep. Oxygen/acetylene torches where band in the mine for repairing equipment because of the fire danger. I know of a couple of mines had some of these layers catch fire and they would close off any of shafts and slopes and just keep on mining in a different direction when an area would catch fire. They would try to smother the fire by burying any entrance. I remember as a kid fishers opening up and smoke and fire coming out of the ground. In the mid 80’s the last of the mines closed and the pumps around the county where shut down and the fires where drowned as in some area the water table came back to its original levels which could be as close to the surface as 3 feet. In the county there where over 300 mines and most where connected as a safety device.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

If they don't flood, they'll burn a long, long time. I'm thinking of the Centralia fire in Pennsylvania. Nothing they've tried has helped there.

My buddy and I grew up in Jackson, back in 77 or 78 we found a couple big steel door's next to the railroad tracks near Page ave, over the next couple days we dug the doors out and pried them open revealing a very deep incline shaft. Later that week we gathered up ropes and lights and I slowly made my way down to the floor of a massive salt mine, we spent 7 or 8 hours exploring the many different shafts that branched off from the main "room" and even found an underground river. We never found records of a salt mine in Jackson.

@Industrial_Revolution

4 күн бұрын

Salt? I knew Jackson had coal mines, but hadn't heard about salt mines. How deep was it?

@Big_John_C

4 күн бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution The main incline shaft was 600' , we were literally at the end of our rope.

@Industrial_Revolution

4 күн бұрын

That's pretty shallow. The Detroit salt mines are 1200 feet vertically down.

Thanks for your remarks regarding the fossiliferous shale! I may make a "foray" to the area just to check that material out.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The shale's good stuff, but most of what's available is stuff that was dug out for the mine, so it's pretty broken up. Still, you might find some good stuff. Bring bug spray.

@thomasdykstra100

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution , "Bring bug spray." ...noted!

Very well presented! I enjoyed this video. I live in Shiawassee county and didn't know about any coal mines around here. Subbed to help the channel!

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Thanks! It's surprising that most people (including me!) had no idea that these mines existed.

Could make a FaceBook page on mines and ppl could post pictures and info about locations. Some of your details on thickness and quality of coal mines is very interesting. Thanks for the work to make this video.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Thanks. That's not a bad idea. I do have a facebook page for the channel, but right now, it's really just putting up links to new videos when they come out. Something to consider expanding on, though.

Great show, I live in Saginaw and have been looking for the coal mines, there were lots of them, even in the city. There must have been a bridge over the river where you were walking on that rail bed, there is rail bed directly across the river from it, and went along side Superior Street. There was also a second shaft near the shale pile you were standing on. ( very well hidden ) There is some footings and what I presume is the shaft entrance right near the bottom of that shale pile. Every year it gets harder to spot as mother nature grows over it. Just was at the main Saginaw library ( Hoyt ) and was given an old plot map book to look at. Turns out my house near Bay and Congress is right on top of a coal vein !

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

First time I was up there, you could see the shaft entrance, but I didn't see any thing clear enough to show on camera this time.

Coal and natural gas still make up about 60% of fuel needed today for electricity production. I receive this information in my energy bill. And the " Tree Huggers ", think that we can become totally energy dependent on windmills and solar panels. Good luck with that. Also, many years ago my father told me that the presence of ferns indicated that coal existed below the ground. I don't know if this is a fact or just a rumor that someone started or how much or what type of coal existed but I do remember him telling me. Also, in the wooded areas of eastern lower Michigan, one can find lots of ferns.

@Industrial_Revolution

28 күн бұрын

On my list of videos to make is one on different types of coal. There's a fairly new theory I recently heard on the creation of coal, but I haven't done enough research on it yet to really know enough to speak on it yet. I haven't heard the idea that ferns above ground today would indicate that coal exists 100 feet underground and not really sure how that would happen. I wonder if it's related to the idea that water dowsing is a proven technique to find water in southern Michigan based on the idea that it has a 100% success rate. Of course, in southern Michigan, if you drill a well anywhere you hit water.

Oh. I'm going to really enjoy this channel.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

:) that's the idea!

As an amateur/neophyte geologist aware of Michigan's relatively unique geology am not surprised to hear of Michigan's small anthracite history, but as having been fascinated by our multifaceted stratification ever since taking a course in it back in college, not my major, have always wondered: "There's got to be coal in Michigan, somewhere." - OR - "Gee, I wonder if there is any coal mines in Michigan?" . In the end I simply assumed I'd hear about them eventually just as I have today, but must denote have been wondering for almost fifty years. Tho have never gone out of my way to find out exactly, well today I found out! Thank you. 👍

@Industrial_Revolution

18 күн бұрын

I actually saw a very thin coal seam, like 2", at a surface cut in a Lansing park a few years ago.

all we have in the Grand Rapids area is gypsum mines which ran about six miles horizontally under about 100 feet underground. It's all been flooded and closed. Even the air blowing building (which I have been in several times) has been taken down.

@Industrial_Revolution

28 күн бұрын

Gypsum seems to have been more widespread. There were open pit gypsum mines on the east side of the state.

Thank you!!

Some of my wife's ancestors were Lithuanians who worked in the coal mines in Pennsylvania and later moved to the Saginaw area to work in the mines there. They eventually settled in the Breckenridge/Wheeler area west of Saginaw and became farmers.

I live in the onaway area up north, we heat with anthricite, cheaper than wood even after i have it shipped in from out east. We use it in a boiler. I shovel it in every other day

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The shoveling every other day is another really nice feature of anthracite over wood. Much higher carbon content, so you get a lot more heat out of it.

@ktanner11

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution exactly more BTU's, less work. I no longer have to cut split and stack firewood. I'm a truck driver by trade, and through some friends I have made over the years I get an end dump load of coal every year for a pretty good price. It gets dumped right into a concrete bunker I built for it. As long as it's dry, it will burn. Although unlike most people think you still need wood, to start the fire. After you get a good bed of wood coals, you can dump in the coal and it will burn. Just shake it twice a day and fill every other. I quite enjoy it.

I visited the Shiawassee Refuge and walked the Woodland trail yesterday with the hope of visiting these ruins. I found the shale pile and the railroad bed but I couldn't find the remains of the buildings and the mine shaft

@Industrial_Revolution

25 күн бұрын

I haven't found any remains of buildings there (the ruins were over at the other mine). You were close to the shaft, but probably couldn't see it, even if you knew where it was, this time of year. From the top of the spoils pile, with your back to the river, I've seen what appears to have been the shaft entrance over to the left. It's filled, but there's a suspiciously rectangular depression.

Good Work. Thank You.

@Industrial_Revolution

5 күн бұрын

Thanks!

Nice video....well done !

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

I think that trail is glamours! Any trail at a historical site is well worth exploring. Nice video.

@Industrial_Revolution

17 күн бұрын

The trail was a little wet that day, but it's a nice trail. If you keep your eyes open, it's amazing how much history and archaeology you can find along almost any trail.

@trep53

17 күн бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution BTW my son is in the Industrial Archeology Department. at MTU in the UP we have been visiting that area since 2006. Great things to see up there.

@Industrial_Revolution

17 күн бұрын

@trep53 I'm thinking about a UP trip this summer.

10:01 your description and portrayal of shale is interesting, especially how it relates to fossils.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

I've only done it a couple times. It tends to come apart really easily. All I ever found was identified as fossil pollen.

Amazing what people mined back in the day in this state!!! Lotta amazing history we have here!! Thanks for sharing.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

There's still a lot of mining going on in Michigan, just not coal.

@celowski6296

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution There sure is. Between the salt under Detroit and the Copper in the UP.

@Bethelridge

Ай бұрын

@@celowski6296there’s no active copper mines in the upper peninsula anymore

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

When did the last one shut down? Thought it was still there a few years ago?

@Bethelridge

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution as far as I know the last line in operation was white pine which closed in the late 90s I believe. There is talk about reopening it thiuggt

We had black Coal like the size of rocks but flat to put on top of the kindling in the fireplace. The coal were turn to amber and glow and warm for a very long time and I like the smell 🙂 We had to bank it when we went to bed or left the house.

@Industrial_Revolution

5 сағат бұрын

Unless you had torches available, you'd usually start coal in a wood fire. It's harder to get lit, but works better once it's going.

I live in Saginaw County, and there’s a handful of closed mines within a mile of my house. They flooded the mines with brine water when they were finished so my well water is unbelievably salty. I have a fresh water cistern buried in my backyard, and have water hauled in once a month. One of the mines is directly off a rail trail, and the entrance has an abandoned teal Pontiac Bonneville sitting in the woods!

@Industrial_Revolution

11 күн бұрын

I used to drive a Bonneville. Is it blue? We're the mines there intentionally flooded with brine, or just filled up that way? I can't think of any reason to intentionally do that, but I might be missing something.

Nice Channel Darren ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

I’ve always heard them called tailings piles , spoil piles is a new one on me.

@Industrial_Revolution

29 күн бұрын

Spoil, tailings, slag... there's probably more. They tend to be used pretty interchangeably. There's some technical and regional differences, but really, they all just mean the solid waste from mining and refining processes.

It's amazing how many mining towns boomed busted then turned to dust one near (alta vil ) me was said to have 10k people now there's nothing more left other then the holes in the ground

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The curse of being a company town?

@anthonytoreson5571

Ай бұрын

@Industrial_Revolution back then I guess you could say yes I live in the hear of the redwoods and when I was a kid the town had 6-7 mills and again gone just took longer

Wow I never knew and I have family that were coal mining in West Virginia for many generations.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Coal in WV is usually in much thicker seams that make it much more economically viable. It is surprising, though, how few people in Michigan know it was right here in our own back yards (sometimes literally).

There was one in my yard. The Flushing Coal Producers Association. It was a coop mine worked by local farmers. I have some of the ledgers and documents stating which farms the mine was allowed to dig under. The mine entrance is in my parents' backyard. The concrete base that the elevator winch was on is in their neighbors backyard. In the hot summers, a big square of grass dies over the concrete base. After the mine closed, my great grandfather rented a bulldozer to close the vertical shaft. I have a photo showing the waste pile from the excavation. But few photographs of the mine.

@Industrial_Revolution

29 күн бұрын

A common problem with "common" stuff, like when you have hundreds of coal mines, is that no one bothers documenting it. A lot of that common stuff, like these mines, ends up being completely lost. Some of it, like "second sleep," gets rediscovered, but I expect much of it may be lost forever. That's why we have to document it for the future.

I was educated within school districts of Michigan. How is it possible that I learned about the Michigan State coal industry 45 years late? One would think there would be a coal mining unit or two along the pathway of learning. Thank you for enlightening me.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Outside Saginaw ISD, I don't know that anyone's really covering it. Even in Saginaw, it's at an outdoor education center that just happens to be built around the coal mine.

@trailingrails9953

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolutiondo you know if they still utilize it? Seems like it’s getting rather run down.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The mine's been closed a long, long time. School groups still use it pretty frequently. There was a bus just leaving when I got there.

I had no idea there were mines here

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

No one seems to much talk about them, despite being a fairly important part of our history.

We had a choice growing up. We had a furnace and water pump and Electricity......But we like the fireplace best with the coal and wood burning !!!!! It was the best memories growing up for me😁

@Industrial_Revolution

5 сағат бұрын

Fires, whether in a fireplace or a campfire, do tend to draw people together, don't they?

I grew up in Oakland County in south-east Michigan. I didn't know Michigan had coal mines. I vaguely knew there was oil drilling here. Its a shame they quit mining coal here and its a shame there isn't more mining of oil, gas, or whatever else in the state.... my apartment is all electric. Somehow the heat is for the whole building and it is electric too but the landlord directly pays for it. There are no heating ducts. My parents house has a gas forced air furnace with heating ducts in the floors next to the walls. My last apartment had heating ducts like my parent's house; each apartment in the building had its own forced air gas furnace in the basement.

@Industrial_Revolution

26 күн бұрын

As I mentioned, the end of Michigan coal mining was economic. As for gas and oil, there still is a lot of that going on, and it's increased with fracking.

There is supposedly an abandoned mine on the curves of Charlotte Hwy in between Mulliken and Poertland

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

I wouldn't be surprised. I've been up through there a couple times, and it was deep in flood plain, if it's where I'm thinking, kinda like that first mine in the video. If you're in the area, the spoils pile might be all that's left, and maybe a railbed, although the current road might be on the old railbed.

@danwolf307

Ай бұрын

I grew up there and I never heard about that, I know a couple old timers from the area I'm going to ask because my curiosity is peaked now! Thank you for sharing.

@brianwilson6403

Ай бұрын

@danwolf307 I got this out of a Michigan History magazine several years ago. I'm guessing that it's east side of the curves right by the cemetary. North of Eaton Hwy?

@danwolf307

Ай бұрын

@@brianwilson6403 there is a large active gravel pit where you're saying so there certainly could have been mining. Thank you.

@brianwilson6403

Ай бұрын

@danwolf307 Ever been to the old mill in Sebawa, or to the Chief Okemos gravesite at Shimnecon(sp)?

My great Grandpa Lester and his buddies actually owned the Wolverine No. 2 coal mine just north of St. Charles Mi. According to my great Uncle Dale, what killed the mining here in Michigan was mostly the Great Depression, I know, real shock. But anyway, what happened was that when they hit the coal, the bank they used for financing closed and that, they spent more time trying to sell the coal, than they were actually mining. The problem was that by the thirties Michigan coal just was not competitive enough for industry, and was instead mostly being used for residential heating, which was just not sustainable, so the mines closed simple as that.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The great depression caused businesses to close? Who would have guessed! That certainly contributed to the fall of the coal industry in Michigan.

@jacobgreve802

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution my mistake, it was actually my Great great grandpa Otto, not Lester.

That trail is so shiny… 😂

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It was just a bit damp that day. First time I was there, the water was several feet higher.

Crazy to think about recent history sometimes. Change is RAPID!!.

@Industrial_Revolution

4 күн бұрын

Definitely. Some of this "ancient history" is so recent that your grandparents probably saw it all happen.

Land records should provide the information on the name of the mine.🤔

Number 8 is a mile down the road from me 😄 do you think I can find any small local mines that aren’t under profit property laws? I’d love to explore on my own 🤣

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

The second mine I was at is not far away at Shiawassee National Wildlife Refuge. I think there's a second one in the refuge, too, but harder to get to. There were a lot around. May be easiest to start looking for spoils piles, since those are fairly distinctive.

I've lived in Michigan my whole life and never heard of this

@Industrial_Revolution

4 күн бұрын

A lot of people, including me, have said that. This is the kind of thing I love finding and presenting.

My great grandfather shut down the coal mine in Unionville mi

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Do you know if it was economics, or did they hit the end of seam?

@peterkost4376

Ай бұрын

@Industrial_Revolution definitely economics. It was poor quality coal. Couldn't compete with west Virginia coal.

@peterkost4376

Ай бұрын

I think his last name was Skelton. But it was definitely in Unionville, up in the thumb of Michigan.

Well, like they say "your never to old to learn" and at 57 and living in Metro Detroit my whole life I never knew we had coal mines..🤔

@Industrial_Revolution

29 күн бұрын

Naturally. Detroit's always focused on salt mines. They should restart the tours in those mines again, even if it's only like a weekend a month or something. I got to tour them once, during the few months they ran tours, a long, long time ago. Ever get a chance to get into them?

@thyubernoob

28 күн бұрын

You are correct that's all they ever talked about down here are the salt mines under the Detroit, and no ive never been in them, only seen videos..

Neat I never knew michigan had coal mining

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It seems most people didn't, unless a relative worked in coal mining.

@southpaul48135

Ай бұрын

I'm in southern michigan never heard if it till now

I wonder, I grew up in Northern Missouri and there were coal mines there as well in the early 1900s, when they closed them down because they were also the low quality coal and now all that area is "coal reserves". I wonder if that area of Michigan is also considered coal reserve?

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Maybe, but I doubt it. The seams so thin, modern equipment couldn't operate there. Who's calling the Missouri stuff reserve? Sometimes that's just done by coal and oil companies to boost book asset values.

@Splintor13

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution I'm actually glad you asked, it made me look it up. This PDF on page 7 lists one of the fields as the Cainsville Field. That's where I grew up and my folks are from. I had just always heard it from older relatives. share.mo.gov/nr/mgs/MGSData/Books/Reports%20of%20Investigations/Mineable%20Coal%20Reserves%20of%20Missouri/RI-054.pdf

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

That's great! One thing I'd really like to see happen with this channel is creating an active community and have live chats where we can all talk about this stuff. There's so much good stuff out there to find.

@billwilson-es5yn

Ай бұрын

North America has several coal basins. Michigan sits inside the Michigan Coal Basin. The Illinois Coal Basin is much larger and extends into Iowa, Missouri, Indiana and Kentucky. Then there's the Appalachian Coal Basin. The USGS website has maps showing all the coal basins and oil provinces.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Coal isn't all that uncommon. High quality and a big enough seam to be worth mining makes it a bit more challenging.

I think we went on a field trip to here or maybe it was somewhere else

Albion had a mine on Clark st. Not far from jackson

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Any trace of it still there?

there were some over in Bay county. My mother spoke of the shale piles and a coal mine down the road from where they lived. Not good coal. Burned "dirty". Monitor Township.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It's great hearing all these stories passed down from parents and grandparents. A handful of those spoil piles still exist, but I doubt many people know what they are.

@Fowlgun

4 күн бұрын

I know where a few were. There was one off Bangor Rd by the bay. One off N Union by Frasier Rd. The race track on 8 mile had one and I believe they used the shale to build the banks on the track. I know there was one right next to US10 and I'm not sure of the crossroad, but I believe it was Fraser or Mackinaw Rd.

Any chance of a grand rapids gypsum mines doc??!! I did work @ domtar, at the time it was the oldest business in gr..until Georgia Pacific fkd it all up..

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Not sure. To be honest, I haven't looked at gypsum mines at all. I do know there were a lot of plaster mills in Michigan to process that gypsum, and there's a really cool pier that used to be fed by a very long cableway out into Lake Huron up north of Port Huron.

@johncordes7885

Ай бұрын

@Industrial_Revolution they do dry storage underneath the grand river..I believe it's 6 levels of room/ pillar..check out John Butterworth..grandrapids pioneers

@johncordes7885

Ай бұрын

@Industrial_Revolution Eberhard Cordes is there 2..gr pioneers. Treaty of 1836. When I worked there it was a continuous sheet of arsenic free drywall

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Arsenic free certainly seems preferable to the alternative.

It's kinda cool. You should go se Thurmond tho it will blow ur mind.

@Industrial_Revolution

5 күн бұрын

At New River Gorge? I've never been there, which is weird, since I'm also an avid hiker. Sounds like I need to add it to my list.

michigander here im from saginaw and didnt even know we had coal lol

@Industrial_Revolution

28 күн бұрын

You're very much not alone.

i sure Henry Ford probably used coal from their

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

They used a LOT of coal, especially for steel production.

Great video. Thxz

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Thanks!

@PHILDRU911

Ай бұрын

gave a thumbs down because you know about the coal mine on M-21 just east of Owosso and didn't mention it!

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Actually, I didn't until some of the comments here have pointed to a few other places I've been where there were coal mines. I probably drove by/over a dozen to get between the two mines I filmed without ever knowing it.

Make Coal Great again

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Economics are hurting coal, but hopefully just enough sticks around to feed steam locomotives, steamships, traditional blacksmith forges, etc.

@tmilholin7552

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution I live right next door to two coal power plants in Michigan. (In fact a coal freighter just went by my window,) Not an ounce of coal smoke ever comes out of those stacks. I don't get what the problem is burning coal with the Technology we have now days

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It's unquestionably better than it used to be. Very little soot (the visible stuff) escapes anymore. There's always unavoidably huge amounts of CO2. Some of the invisible stuff isn't so great, and the more that's captured from the stack, the more toxic the ash becomes. All of that, of course, is very dependent on the quality and source of the coal. I'm thinking about doing a coal video. See if I can get into an anthracite mine. Compare the different types of coal, and their advantages and disadvantages. Oddly, the same math that was in play in the 1950's is still in play today, when it comes to deciding to convert coal plants to natural gas, or replace completely with solar, wind, or something else. Industrial uses for coal will probably outlive the large-scale power generation uses, and I don't see that going any time soon. It's a complex topic.

Good video, but Coal is a very dirty energy source

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Oh, no question about that. For a few hundred years, though, it was our best energy option. Not so much anymore, although I hope the planet can survive running coal-powered, museum/heritage/historic steam trains and steam ships. I'd hate to be the last generation to see those. Everything else can convert to something cleaner.

@chrischapel9165

Ай бұрын

Yeah well, calorie for calorie of energy, IF you compare coal to any other form of energy it is the most efficient form of energy to use. What EVER form of energy you use,ENERGY will still have to be expended and the ENERGY expended for this so called "green energy" is way more harder to harness than coal ever was/is. Alot of the "dirty coal" is the type of coal that is being used ( there are 4 types of coal) and, with the emissions controls we have today, coal is the cheapest and cleanest energy option we have today. ...* To this day , China is using our finest , cleanest burning coal we have in America which comes from Wyoming thanks to NAFTA

Michigan didn't have lignite coal. Anthracite coal was rarely used for power generation, almost primarily as metallurgical coal. And, odds are the seams being too short is what shut down the mines.

Wish we had cool old stuff to check out here in Washington state..... everything just rots away in the woods

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Michigan's pretty wet, too. You have more rock there, so maybe more mining? Strong history of hydroelectric, too, and now I'm seeing quite a bit of dam removal, which adds it's own interesting remains to check out.

@user-qh4uo7kt3h

Ай бұрын

@Industrial_Revolution that's up in the mountians... around the sound everything just falls apart eventually.... it's not like back east where around every corner there is something historically significant......

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

We get a lot of that problem around here, too.

Just really odd the way it’s presented as if it’s a bad thing the coal mine shut down. They were incredibly deadly places to work and still are. They polluted our air and water, poisoned us and the ecosystem. We should endeavor the reduce the coal we mine and use.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It can be hard to present something that, at the time was considered universally good, and now is considered by half the population to still be universally good and by the other half as being absolutely bad. Without coal, the Industrial Revolution would have happened very differently, if at all, and steam power may have never become a major power source at all. For today's audience, though, if you talk about coal mines shutting down, a lot of coal supporters blame politicians and environmentalists, but I wanted to show that it was, and is, really just economics. Aside from the human impact, there's a cultural and historic loss, especially in the case of Michigan's coal mines, where their history is nearly lost.

someone forgot to tell the Asians that coal was going out of style

@Industrial_Revolution

20 күн бұрын

China's consistently one of the largest producers of solar panels. They still also use the most coal, and have among the worst air pollution.

Well growing up in ironwood Michigan.. and fairly used to crappy trails.. it's really amusing that your channel is called industrial revolution.. I had three Argos growing up.. evidently you probably don't know what one is.. it's an eight wheeled amphibious ATV.. if you're going to venture around in Michigan woods you should probably get one.. you're probably thinking they're slow and you'd be better off walking.. if you stick with the original motor yes they are slow.. if you upgrade with the Kawasaki 650 or 750 a ninja. Crotch rocket motor. It goes a wee bit faster than 20 miles an hour..

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

So far, the places I've been, ATV's aren't allowed and, really, being pretty close to roads, there's been no advantage. In more remote areas, I'm not ruling them out.

This country was built with out regulation. You could never build the great country we "had" with todays Government hands digging into every corner of the peoples pockets.

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

It was built mostly without regulation, but, as I mentioned in the video, it wasn't regulation that killed Michigan's coal industry, it was simple economics. The industry was fully shut down before the EPA was even formed.

@motorcitymadman146

Ай бұрын

@@Industrial_Revolution RIght, we did not need the EPA. Free markets are much better then Regulation. I'm not saying we should allow raw sewage to be dumped in the water but Regulation has killed any hope of new farmers starting and many many other industries from being started by the little guy.

if there is anything that minecraft has proved its that the children yern 2 be in the mines 😂😂😂

@Industrial_Revolution

28 күн бұрын

I prefer caves, personally, but any opportunity to be underground...

Our grandparents caused so much global warming that our grandchildren will have no polar ice caps

@Industrial_Revolution

18 күн бұрын

The past happened, and we can't change it. We can try to understand it, and use that knowledge to try to improve the future

Oh sweeet! Went to north branch schools and we stayed the night there for a field trip super cool those mines are haunted too

@Industrial_Revolution

2 күн бұрын

Did the ghosts come visit overnight?

the neighborhood i grew up in, 'Sheridan Park' in Saginaw was built over some old mine shafts. I know of one driveway the totally collapsed dew to being building over a shaft. Several yards had some sort of a small depressions (small sinkholes)? (we as kids could never figure that out) but they were evenly spaced out like at every other front yard. The houses in Phase one of the park were built on slabs, a lot of the houses had cracked flood dew to unstableness underground. @chrischapel9165, what have you heard about mines being under 'Sheridan Park?

@Industrial_Revolution

Ай бұрын

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about that specific area, but the evenly spaced, every other yard thing seems odd to me. It's too close to be air shafts, and would seem too close to be separate mine entrances, too, I'd think. Maybe one of the other people on here with more info on the area mines may have some ideas? Failing that, someone at the Castle Museum may be able to point you in the right direction to find more info.

Man I am such a nerd.. good video..

@Industrial_Revolution

5 күн бұрын

Thanks!