Mechanics & Character Design - How Mario & Dark Souls Communicate Characters ~ Design Doc

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NEW SERIES! Design Doc is a short-form lecture series that analyzes and explores various game design related topics with an emphasis on graphic design and visual communication.
Today, we explore how the designs of characters can be used to teach and simplify game mechanics
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Game Footage provided by The Super Best Friends, Gnrfan53404, and EpicNameBro.

Пікірлер: 93

  • @Adolphsson
    @Adolphsson4 жыл бұрын

    Aww, now I want a Dark Souls where the archers just runs up to you and beats you with their bow.

  • @magolor152

    @magolor152

    2 жыл бұрын

    And knowing the nature of the game that would probably be lethal somehow if hit, as easy as it would be to dodge

  • @hunterbennett757

    @hunterbennett757

    3 ай бұрын

    Would this be similar to how Green Arrow attacks in the Injustice series?

  • @krum1703
    @krum17032 жыл бұрын

    Fun fact- in Hollow Knight, the tik (the very first enemy you see) had to be made spiky because beta testers kept jumping on it because they thought that it was like a goomba.

  • @krum1703

    @krum1703

    10 ай бұрын

    @@Vectivus. Heard it from somewhere. I don't remember from where anymore

  • @digitail4000

    @digitail4000

    19 күн бұрын

    I mean, if it was smooth it would look very stompable

  • @pwnyboy9714
    @pwnyboy97144 жыл бұрын

    No joke, when I was a wee lad, I thought Goombas were anthpomorphic slices of bread instead of mushrooms. No one informed me otherwise and I wouldnt realize they were mushes until Mario 64.

  • @robert2german

    @robert2german

    Жыл бұрын

    I used to think that Goombas were weird flightless birds, until I saw their 3d model.

  • @OmniCroissant

    @OmniCroissant

    Жыл бұрын

    and I thought they were walking caramel candy lol.

  • @Firestar4041
    @Firestar40416 жыл бұрын

    "The second enemy type the player runs into is the Koopa-" You can literally see the piranha plants tears as you say this, while sitting on his pipe ;-;

  • @tech6hutch

    @tech6hutch

    6 жыл бұрын

    It's still a true statement. It's just the visual that shows a later point in the game.

  • @TheLegonaut

    @TheLegonaut

    5 жыл бұрын

    Don't worry Piranha plant. At least you're a playable character in Smash

  • @lnsflare1

    @lnsflare1

    5 жыл бұрын

    The piranha plant just wants to be friends. Bitey, bitey friends.

  • @rage_2000

    @rage_2000

    4 жыл бұрын

    Sakurai appreciates Piranha plants

  • @N12015

    @N12015

    3 жыл бұрын

    That's the third one. 1-1 does NOT have piranha plants and they start to appear in 1-2. That mouth with visible teeths says you "If you jump over me, i'll bite and hurt you" while the vegetal looking says "I'm weak to fire", so that's an amazing design as well, even better than the spiny (they don't tell you they can be defeated with fire).

  • @PanjaRoseGold
    @PanjaRoseGold4 жыл бұрын

    I feel like asking “What makes the Goomba an enemy” is a lot like asking “What makes sweets so good?” There’s probably an answer but we’re so associated with it that we kinda just take it at face value

  • @Ten_Thousand_Locusts

    @Ten_Thousand_Locusts

    3 жыл бұрын

    No it's not

  • @rjd-kh8et
    @rjd-kh8et Жыл бұрын

    One time Mario failed to use enemy designs that conveyed their abilities was the "Goomboo" in Super Mario Land 2. Can you jump on it like a Goomba, or will it hurt you like a Boo? I learned the hard way you can't jump on it, and that's probably why it never appeared again.

  • @LuznoLindo

    @LuznoLindo

    9 ай бұрын

    To be fair, a good deal of enemies from Super Mario Land 2 never appeared again. That was probably due to the fact that game didn't even have Miyamoto as its producer, which, incidentally, is the reason that game's so wildly different to what you usually expect from a Mario game. Especially when it comes to its enemies.

  • @JayMonoto
    @JayMonoto8 жыл бұрын

    i've watched all three of these and they're very well thought out, and the production looks very nice! if i had one suggestion for how to improve this series, it would be to rely less on simply relaying the script via text on the screen, and instead use visual icons to help people easily grasp the ideas you are conveying without having to entirely understand the exact words you are saying. either way, they're looking great so far, and i'm very excited to see how far you go with these.

  • @Sir_Duckyweather

    @Sir_Duckyweather

    6 жыл бұрын

    Three? Did one get taken down? Looks like this is the second one in the series, at least chronologically in the uploads list.

  • @malo3798

    @malo3798

    2 жыл бұрын

    tries to hold back the urge to reply to a 3 year old comment

  • @EsquizofreniaNatural
    @EsquizofreniaNatural7 жыл бұрын

    Pretty great channel. I will recomend you to my suscribers.

  • @EsquizofreniaNatural

    @EsquizofreniaNatural

    7 жыл бұрын

    Not spam intended, i know, i'm a spanish speaking channel, but not triying to do spam.

  • @wowza935

    @wowza935

    6 жыл бұрын

    What's up with ur channel? It's like you're speaking some other language or something.

  • @d_pikachu9388

    @d_pikachu9388

    6 жыл бұрын

    Language of love

  • @miguelguzman80

    @miguelguzman80

    6 жыл бұрын

    Que haces tu aqui deberias estar subiendo videos para asi alegrar mi miserable vida

  • @danielflorez3762

    @danielflorez3762

    5 жыл бұрын

    Esquizo, que haces tu aquí v:

  • @bouboulroz
    @bouboulroz3 жыл бұрын

    You forgot to mention that the goomba, by it's buzzer like shape, implicitly invites the player to jump on it. The fact that Mario is a plumber is also no coincidence : he's a plumber because he interacts with pipes, and they are pipes because the sight of a giant pipe invites the player to instinctually push the down button to see if you can go into it. This is why I don't really like the typical speech of "hey, isn't that random that Mario is a plumber jumping on turtles ?" It's not random, it's consistent. Everything in the first Mario games is a tutorial hidden through design, which is why it's easily accepted by the older gamers and questioned by non-gamers and people who grew up with more modern games that use other tools to teach the player.

  • @XionR13
    @XionR138 жыл бұрын

    Really happy you're back! This series is already really interesting, and I look forward to seeing more. I also hope that this means that you're gonna stay this time.

  • @NonJohns
    @NonJohns6 жыл бұрын

    ~3:40 It's good to keep the transitions/reveals, that are close to each other, consistent Even if it is across another slide (The points were also somewhat related so makes sense to match them) Another critique, is in regard to the choice of transition of the text, motion should only be used for a quick redirection of a focus. In a task like reading, where the direction is already established, there's really no need for any kind of transition. If you really do want to keep the motion, try to stick with something that doesn't distract from the reading (less motion -> better) The left to right spin is more extreme than top to down (length vs height) Now it's just a personal complaint, you shouldn't try to perfectly match up the line reveals with the recording, and reveal them about 1/5 earlier On top of that the motion reveal delays the text quite a bit so the line should actually stop when the voice starts Overall I just just really distracted, trying to read the text and follow along.

  • @DesignDoc

    @DesignDoc

    6 жыл бұрын

    100% agreed, that was something we changed over time after these first 3 videos. Using animated text more sparingly in more recent videos.

  • @noyz-anything
    @noyz-anything6 жыл бұрын

    dario and mark souls

  • @macaroninaegi5169

    @macaroninaegi5169

    3 жыл бұрын

    Why am I laughing?

  • @austinreed7343

    @austinreed7343

    3 жыл бұрын

    Sario and Mark Douls.

  • @bentonic4998

    @bentonic4998

    2 жыл бұрын

    Hi i'm Mark J. Souls

  • @Winasaurus
    @Winasaurus3 жыл бұрын

    It's a little more helpful to point out the extreme examples back to back. Not only are the hollows uncoordinated and flailing, but they lack proper armor and weapons, they stand in seemingly random places, some are only given a flaming torch and no sword at all. Compare these to the silver knights in Anor Londo. Very coordinated, with purposeful strikes. Ornate protective armor and shielding, with weapons that look formidable. They stand guard in rooms and at doorways, clearly meaning to block passage. The giant knights are essentially the same. For the more monstrous enemies, you have the giants at Sen's, huge brutes who are strong but tire themselves out, with little strategy beyond just hitting you. And for comparison, the Titanite Demons, who aren't so eager to fight they'll cripple themselves, and prefer to either attack at long range, or use their extra range granted by the catch pole to keep you too far to attack. Or maybe the knights in the parish who can actually parry you back, proving them to be far more capable fighters than even the shielded footsoldiers before them.

  • @BossDD3
    @BossDD34 жыл бұрын

    I would say Punch-out! manages to exhibit a lot of what you describe about telegraphing on the limited NES hardware. In my opinion one of the big draws of the Soulsborne game is that function a lot like a more sophisticated Punch-Out.

  • @jasonalen7459
    @jasonalen74596 жыл бұрын

    So if i want to make something look like it can jump high, then i should give it long legs, and if it's supposed to run fast, then it needs running shoes

  • @nickrl113

    @nickrl113

    5 жыл бұрын

    I mean technically, depending on the creature anatomy, long legs both imply the ability to run fast (think ostrich-like) and the ability to jump high (think frog-like)

  • @valletas

    @valletas

    2 жыл бұрын

    Depends on how the lags are Im making an enemy who will kick the player when close and i wanted to make sure players jump before attacking him to convey the main mechanic of my game So long legs it is

  • @femgramnya
    @femgramnya7 жыл бұрын

    "Aren't exactly friendly looking" But what if it actually does want a friend? I mean, Mario probably already killed most of it's old friends so wouldn't it want new friends? HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF NO ONE WANTED TO BE *YOUR FRIEND???????*

  • @lugbzurg8987

    @lugbzurg8987

    4 жыл бұрын

    This is pretty much the character of Basilisx.

  • @iamben1738
    @iamben17383 жыл бұрын

    This video is proof that, in reality, Dark Souls and Mario take place in the same universe. I want you on this, conspiracy theorists. Make it happen!

  • @psicopato2460

    @psicopato2460

    3 жыл бұрын

    Lord of Lighting from Odyssey looks like a Dark Souls enemy

  • @Lepa2793
    @Lepa27936 жыл бұрын

    I am citing so many of your videos in my masters thesis, holy crap so much good and interesting info! Thank you!!!

  • @EricBowmanTOX
    @EricBowmanTOX8 жыл бұрын

    Very interesting vid man :)

  • @redberry2443
    @redberry24437 жыл бұрын

    Well made video, Instant Sub ^-^

  • @Popepaladin
    @Popepaladin6 жыл бұрын

    "If the enemy has a shield, it will shield. If it has a spear, it may attack with a spear." Whoa.

  • @cherrypuddles
    @cherrypuddles5 жыл бұрын

    Mario is the Dark Souls of Nintendo.

  • @raymondjones7423

    @raymondjones7423

    4 жыл бұрын

    Depends on which game Super Mario world 2: Child's play Mario Bros 3: Tough Sunshine: Delightfully colorfully cruel lol Mario maker 2 : Satan Spawn🔥🔥😈👿 muahahaha!😈🔥

  • @CreepyCrow6
    @CreepyCrow65 жыл бұрын

    I don't know why but I always thought that the body of the goomba was a beak

  • @orionzx1277
    @orionzx12776 жыл бұрын

    Mario is the DARK SOULS of plattformers (sry i had 2 m8)

  • @DamianYerrick
    @DamianYerrick6 жыл бұрын

    Punch-Out!! does the same thing as Dark Souls in telegraphing attacks.

  • @OGEdger

    @OGEdger

    3 жыл бұрын

    6:19

  • @FuleMedia
    @FuleMedia5 жыл бұрын

    I am working through this series of yours and was curious what happened to episode 2, I am going through them in order and noticed it went from 1 to 3 Ninja edit: just noticed episode 2 was uploaded after episode 3

  • @DesignDoc

    @DesignDoc

    5 жыл бұрын

    The first 3 Design Doc episodes were originally a part of a college thesis project under a different name. When I uploaded the final public versions of these videos, they were all uploaded together but for some reason, episode 3 went up before 2.

  • @FuleMedia

    @FuleMedia

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@DesignDoc Either way I am 3 episodes in (and I saw the newest one on boss battle design which is what brought me to your channel) and I really love this series so far and appreciate your take.

  • @godwin972
    @godwin9726 жыл бұрын

    Wait... this was before the whole "X is Dark Souls" thing?

  • @thebiggestnut217

    @thebiggestnut217

    5 жыл бұрын

    I am dark sools

  • @SquaredbyX
    @SquaredbyX6 жыл бұрын

    It's also not just moving toward the player... It is moving from right to left.

  • @NonJohns

    @NonJohns

    6 жыл бұрын

    In the first meeting it is and that's kinda important

  • @xcross4286
    @xcross42865 жыл бұрын

    Whatabout Solari!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @ogarza3
    @ogarza36 жыл бұрын

    ...but in smb every enemy and item is explained in the manual with detail, what they do, and how you can interact with them, including bulldozer and chain combos, destroying bricks, etc

  • @jonahdewitt2158

    @jonahdewitt2158

    6 жыл бұрын

    No one reads manuals before they play a game. The developers know that, and that's why good games convey their game mechanics with good design.

  • @stuna210

    @stuna210

    5 жыл бұрын

    Tell that to people who take prescribed drugs

  • @patchpen5613

    @patchpen5613

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@stuna210 Because people treat medical treatment the same as entertainment.

  • @trollbreeder2534

    @trollbreeder2534

    5 жыл бұрын

    the manual? who cares about the manual? you skipped over that shit in 10 seconds or less

  • @voxelheart
    @voxelheart6 жыл бұрын

    What's the background music? Sounds like mystery dungeon but I may just be an idiot and it's from one of the games you talked about and I haven't memorized the soundtracks.

  • @Populon993

    @Populon993

    6 жыл бұрын

    The music from which part? In the section about Mario it's the main theme of this game and the tune of the section about Dark Souls (which continues through the conclusion, so you probably mean this one) is the theme of Dark Souls 1 when you are in the loading menu.

  • @zechariahcaraballo8765
    @zechariahcaraballo8765 Жыл бұрын

    I never noticed that 2d goombas dont have teeth lol

  • @exittheflorpus7354
    @exittheflorpus73546 жыл бұрын

    Does Mario Is Run?

  • @jitsauce522

    @jitsauce522

    6 жыл бұрын

    QUE PASO ES COAT?

  • @Fluffkitscripts
    @Fluffkitscripts3 жыл бұрын

    This makes me think the arachnotron in doom eternal should’ve had a bigger gun. Its ambiguous design doesn’t quite make it clear that it’s a long-range harasser. The gun seems almost secondary on its chassis. Not to mention that they use it as an early-game enemy and the tiny gun is the only weak point that makes it bearable.

  • @greasycrab
    @greasycrab6 жыл бұрын

    Why doesn't anybody ever talk about the fact that we used to have instruction manuals that explicitly told us how to play the game. In the Super Mario Bros. manual there is a line that says: "Bad guys can be done in by jumping on top of them. If you bump into an enemy from the side or below, you die." I sort of get the impression that you're only looking at a part of the whole package and drawing conclusions from that. Not trying to talk down your analasys, just mentioning that instruction manuals are often overlooked.

  • @TiaKatt

    @TiaKatt

    5 жыл бұрын

    I was the child who read manuals. My brother very much was not. Having the game convey this stuff to someone who doesn't have the manual on hand or just wants to get into the action isn't a bad thing.

  • @21coute

    @21coute

    5 жыл бұрын

    @@TiaKatt Agreed. I never read manuals as a child unless I got stuck. Some of my games were bought used or rented from BlockBuster and didn't have manuals.

  • @emsheshan9158
    @emsheshan91586 жыл бұрын

    You just watched extra credits for this one

  • @renatoramos8834
    @renatoramos88345 жыл бұрын

    lol at saying souls games are fair.

  • @devincory9695
    @devincory96956 жыл бұрын

    You take 7 minutes to say "Enemies should do what they look like they would do."

  • @mysteryswordstudios

    @mysteryswordstudios

    6 жыл бұрын

    Nah, that's you reducing an analysis to a single line because of irrational salt.

  • @vennril

    @vennril

    6 жыл бұрын

    Yeah, gotta admit, when the video ended I was like "wait, that's it?". I thought that was like an introduction part before we get to the real meat...

  • @louishugh-jones1743
    @louishugh-jones17437 жыл бұрын

    this has got to be the most basic and obvious analysis i've ever seen

  • @mysteryswordstudios

    @mysteryswordstudios

    6 жыл бұрын

    Oh no, now more people know about "obvious" things! The horror!

  • @MisterJang0
    @MisterJang04 жыл бұрын

    I have to disagree here. I introduced my girlfriend to New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe and I had to explain to her that touching spikes would hurt her. And when I first had us use the star power-ups, I told her the power-ups would make us "invincible", and so, when given the star power-up, she proceeded to fall down a pit because she thought she was "invincible". I had to change my definition of invincible after that, lol. Also, I've seen a video of different first-timers playing SMB, and most of them walked right into the first goomba; the angry eyes didn't mean anything to them. I think it's way better to give the players a tutorial rather than attempt to make everything intuitive. Tutorials don't have to teach absolutely everything, but from them, players can get a good grip on the logic of the game, which will help them throughout the whole gameplay experience.

  • @maddockemerson4603
    @maddockemerson46034 жыл бұрын

    “Dark Souls is tough, but fair” Yeah, except for when it drops a rock on your head the first time you pass into an area that even with foreknowledge is impossible to avoid. Dark Souls is difficult for difficulty’s sake and I really wish the fanboys would stop propping it up as this pinnacle of game balance that it’s totally not.

  • @gnateb6048

    @gnateb6048

    2 жыл бұрын

    That rock doesn't kill you

  • @maddockemerson4603

    @maddockemerson4603

    2 жыл бұрын

    ​@@gnateb6048 That was just a hypothetical, but if you're referring to the boulder that rolls down that staircase in the tutorial area to knock out the wall and reveal the guy who gives you the Estus Flask? Well, I was incorrect in this generalization, but only slightly. That rock, the burning barrel thrown at you before you reach the bridge, the dragon on the bridge burning you to death with no warning only the first time: all of those _are_ possible to avoid, but _only with_ foreknowledge. Even then it's extremely unrealistic in the case of that first trap: the first time it'll just hit you no matter what. If it doesn't, that's only because you've watched or read a guide, in which case why are you even playing the game? If you roll up a second character, then at this event you might try dodging off the staircase, and you'll just roll into the invisible wall and get hit anyway. Third character to put up with this crap, you'll run back to the bottom of the stairs, then seeing that the boulder is faster and almost caught up with you, you'll run to the side, and get run over again, as the boulder sharply turns at that point for no realistic reason so that it can knock down that specific section of wall. So it would take the average player four characters to learn the pattern of that trap. This is trial-and-error gameplay at its most tedious. And so what if some of those one-time traps don't necessarily kill you in one hit? It's still bullshit. In a good dungeon crawler like Skyrim or Rogue Legacy there's at least a consistent way to identify traps, so you _may_ get hit by them the first time, but afterwards you know what to look for, so you can walk into a room for the first time, identify the traps and avoid them - if you fail to avoid them after that it's probably because you're not being attentive enough. In DS you just have to know by experience the locations of a few very specific traps, that _will_ hit you the first time, unless you've studied somebody else's playthough. Stuff like this is all over DS that takes you out of the experience of feeling like an adventurer going through a dungeon, and makes you feel like you're jumping through the game's hoops instead. It sucks.

  • @nemo9396
    @nemo9396 Жыл бұрын

    Your guys are all so boring quoting always the same four games like no other games ever existed.

  • @MGM_Think
    @MGM_Think3 жыл бұрын

    I dislike because you said Dark Souls are fair. I hate how unfair it was.

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