This is a video that requires at least a second viewing. It's very good!

That's a great example of a diy way of measuring headspace. Add for example "method of accurately measuring headspace"to the title though. The gun guys will love your stuff . Great job keep up the videos a bunch of us amateurs are a little slim on tricks and theory.

This is an old video but it was so helpful for me to troubleshoot as a machinist. Thank you so much for you help!

That's a great example of a diy way of measuring headspace. Add for example "method of accurately measuring headspace"to the title Great job keep up the videos a bunch of us amateurs are a little slim on tricks and theory.

Thank you so much! I cheated and used Mastercam to do this and then went to the chalk board to give a "by hand" demonstration for someone making V-Blocks. I always give you credit and recommend your videos to everyone I encounter.

Very colourful indeed Joe, examples like these would have made trig lessons a lot more relevant to me and my classmates 40years ago:) one the the most frequent moans was "I'll never use this stuff when I leave school", I'm pretty sure that's how most current kids perceive trig too...

Good stuff Joe, you are not takeing for granted others knowing the things we take for granted!

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Having done this for so long, sometimes its tough to pick a topic. Like you said, its all natural for those in the trade their entire life. I'll try to pick the good ones. Do you have any suggestions?

@ROBRENZ

8 жыл бұрын

How about showing the sister video to this for the trig challenged on how powerful the sketcher in cad program can be to solve these same problems without ever picking up the calculator or using any trig. How to properly construct the sketch geometry to represent the problem at hand. ATB, Robin

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Hi Robin, that's a good idea. I need to get a screen capture program in place to make better videos like that. Stay tuned.

Joe, excellent explanations to making the shop calculations. I too grew up in New Jersey (Bergen County) and left in 1968 to go to college on the west coast. NJ provided an excellent high school education and very grateful for the opportunity. Once you understand the fundamentals, everything thing else is pretty easy because it all factors back down to algebra, geometry, and trig identities. Keep up the great videos and I enjoy your teaching style. Best regards, Paul Jones

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much Paul. I attended West Morris Mount Olive HS in Morris county class of 76. The school offered a fantastic industrial prep curriculum at that time and I ate it up. I did a formal apprenticeship directly out of HS and stayed in prototype and tooling machining ever since. I was a geometry junkie, and just suffered through the trig. I went right to work out of HS. I do not have a college degree.

Now that was instructive, very well explained, and answers a few of my past head scratchers about just how you get a tapered hole to a precise diameter at the face of the part when there was no way I knew of to easily measure it. I got here from Chuck's mention of your channel as well and I'm already very happy he did mention it. I have some catching up to do with the rest of your videos.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks Turning Point. Glad you could drop by.

Joe if i had a guy like you to learn from in the shop i might actually be a real machinist. Its untelling how many times i had to wing it because nobody knew how to measure things like this. You got yourself a new subscriber today. Keep it coming.

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

thank you. I appreciate it. welcome aboard.

I’ve had so many math classes where I just learn the math with no knowledge of if it will ever be helpful, it’s almost therapeutic to see it for something I can use! Thank you!

well deserved praise joe. your going to an area where many machinists fear to tread. your making math interesting and fun looking forward to more of the same.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that Larry. Thank you

I feel fortunate to be getting all of these fantastic tips you've spent a lifetime accumulating. I got a machine tool degree in the early 80's, and got machines, but never became a machinist. And so I also never learned some of the lesser known aspects of the trade.

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

There are too many to cover. Every corner of this trade has its own creative solutions to things. Thanks for watching.

Reminds me the time I sat in the classroom and got the hang of trig., good thing I still use it quite regularly... A great teacher is the key to make someone interested and learn something in the end. Since you could be a better teacher than I could be, I'll refer to your channel instead of boring my viewers to death... lol

@Shop-Tech

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Send as many viewers as you like! It good to know these videos are helping out. Thanks for watching.

@pierresgarage2687

8 жыл бұрын

Joe Pieczynski If you get some viewers you want to send me, I'll take them also... ;)

This is why I watch Mr Pie. I know trig, the math makes sense, and the magic is usually obvious about half way through the drawing portion, but he always provides an insight that would take me a day and a half (I'd have to sleep on it a bit) to figure out how to solve that particular problem on my own. Very good content. Thank you.

@joepie221

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching. geometry and trig go hand in hand and I Loved geometry in High school. Trig.......not so much.

@carloeffigiati7275

2 жыл бұрын

@@joepie221 No one loves trig.

Thanks Joe, watching your videos takes me back to my roots. I learned machining and CNC programming without a CAD system. I created toolpaths for the CNC machines by calculating the tool center positions for each transition. I was taught that all you need to do is find the correct triangle to solve based on the dimensions on the print. These days, I can just draw it in Solidworks and pick out anything I need but, having that foundation of doing it longhand gives me a powerful understanding of the process and the ability to solve puzzles in the field or at the machine. Keep up the good work. I hope there are younger people learning from you to carry on the tradition. 👍

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks Gordon. I too am a ground up CNC programmer, so I appreciate all the G2, G3, X,Y,I,J etc calculations. I didn't program offline for almost 2 years after getting my machine. Its a good place to start in my opinion.

Super useful refresher Joe -- at my age this stuff gets real rusty!

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks you. Having spent years making large bore valves, this technique was a daily thing. There's a lot going on, but if you just take a minute to draw it, and dissect it. All your info just comes right to the top. Thanks for watching.

I took geometry & trig in high school. I would say those and algebra have helped me all my life. This just another example. Great job Joe

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

Definitely good core skills for stuff like this. I loved geometry in school.

Whoa! Never expected to see Pythagoras' theorem become useful. I'm going to keep that in my bag of tricks now. Thanks for sharing! :)

Great explanation Joe! You're making us get the grey matter running again and thinking outside the box. Thanks again to Chuck for directing us to your channel. Your on a roll, keep us thinking! Thanks again.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Hi Brian. I had a department head that found out I performed better when he told me something was impossible. I never failed to find a solution to his ( TS) problems.That just means its never been done before. Never stop thinking. Thanks for watching.

Thanks for showing these ways for measuring the taper diameter using a ball. This type of info is extremely useful, and I would have never thought of using a ball. Your idea of using a ball made me realize that you could accurately measure the taper angle itself by using two balls of different sizes. Neat stuff. Thanks, Chris

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

The 2 ball measurement is high end stuff Chris. i like the way you think ! Mr Crispin made the same observation.. He's a 20 year old machinist for RR in the UK. Look him up. Sharp guy too.

@shadowdog500

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'm one of Mr Crispin's subscribers. Your'e correct that he is a really sharp guy. Chris

Hi Joe,. I'm a little late getting in here but you were certainly on the ball with this video. Thanks Dale in Canada

@joepie221

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dale. Stay well.

You are a great teacher Joe. Keep it up!

I copied your diagram of the ball in the cone. I then did the trig on all of the 30 degree angles . I get it now. Thank you very much. Forgive the not to bright comments!

Good Video, learned a few things. Interesting tip about using only the carriage to adjust size.

Thanks Joe, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Joe, I will pay you to come and work in your shop.lol Any youngsters just getting started in the Austin area, this is the man you want to learn from.

@joepie221

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you for that.

Awesome mind blowing info Joe! I'm going to watch it a few more times to get it to sink in a bit. Definitely saving this one. Thank you for your time and effort with your videos! Jason

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

You're welcome Jason. Thanks for the comment.

Very useful. I just happen to be cutting some cones. You do an excellent job of explaining the trig behind the solution.

Excellent job of explaining. I have to give you a shout out soon. Keep it up.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. More to come.

I tried the compound angle setup on a 7" Mini-lathe. Works perfect. A great setup even on a cheap Chinese machine. Kurt, Seattle Washington

Joe, Great videos! I really enjoy them. Thanks!

Redrew everything in SolidWorks 2016, all numbers were right on Joe, thanks for useful information..

Nice work Joe. Young math students should watch this so they'll stop asking the age old question "why do we need to know this stuff?". I for one am very great-full to my trig teacher all those many years ago.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks Tim. I agree 100%

Great job. Thanks so much for doing this. Really looking forward to more videos.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Stay tuned. More to come.

Waite i here gears grinding . id better watch that a couple dozen more times . very informative thanks a heap Joe

Great video Joe!!!

Great video! Keep them coming!

This video took a couple of viewings to grasp. (Okay...more than a couple). :-) Good stuff Joe!

Great video & information!

Thanks for a good bed time video you do a great job keep it going

@joepie221

6 жыл бұрын

So....it was a good way to end the day, or did it put you to sleep??

excellent and very clear as always. thanks again

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

My pleasure. I had the opportunity to teach a 'Design for Manufacturability' course for the University of Texas mechanical engineering student coop program our company hosted. I get the same satisfaction posting these videos when I get great comments. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment.

Great video/information

Thanks Joe!

Brilliant!

Outstanding Sir.

@joepie221

9 ай бұрын

Many thanks!

Very well done.....keeeeeep it up please. Isn't it interesting that when you know just one little fact, that the contact points and the center of the ball form a 90 deg. angle then the rest just works out with trig. Excellent, no, I should say Brilliant!

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thank you. This is very rewarding. I love the feedback. Thanks for watching.

Two different gage balls, resting on the inner face, not the edge, with give you both the angle and the ideal diameter of the opening. Burrs and chamfers won't affect it. Just to make it easy, Zoro has gage ball indicator points in various sizes you can attach to a drop indicator.

using cad of course for the second method offset one or both of the lines .500.. now draw a vertical line up and trim it or use "intersection"--then snap a 1 inch diameter at that point and there is your ball in tangent contact with the cone.. another method such as when doing roll pin dimensions against angled surface is simply "create fillet"--snap the 2 lines and it places the diameter perfectly tangent. You can then "finish trim the circle closed"--if you want to visually see the entire ball or diameter. coming in like he says while roughing it out knowing the number you are shooting for the height of the top of the ball you can even make a go no go gauge that alerts you when you get a few thousands away just like checking a hole diameter with a smaller pin as you get close..

joe very interesting video. bob

How about measuring a male part with a taper? Anyway to figure out the small end and big end of the part and total length of taper? I was just working on a piece with a taper but had to use a new part to go by to set my compound to the angle by indicating the new taper and it was just a little past 5 degrees ( just barely ) and wondering if their is anyway of doing the math to find the exact angle also. I thought about sticking magnets to the end and place dowel pins on them and then mic over the dowels just wondering if i am going in the right direction?

OK, yep very colourful as you say ..... any chance of you demonstrating it on the lathe cutting and measuring for say a morse taper or iso40 etc ? Its years since I used trig or tables , a refresher would be useful. shop calculator preferred. Thanks again. mat

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

I will find the time to demonstrate this on the lathe for you guys. My machine is setup for another project at the moment, so hang in there.

Your explanations are crystal clear. However, it would have helped a bit if you had explained why you would know the height was .250" (on the second example at 7:15 in the video) from the cord to the center of the ball (giving a half cord length of .433"). I'm not sure how you got there. Love your videos. And, by the way, I made a tool height gauge based on your demonstration. Fun project I had put off for a long time. You got me up and running. The shout-out from Outsidescrewball was well deserved.

@glennfelpel9785

8 жыл бұрын

Jim...This is because the Sine of 30 degrees is .5 Or, for this 30/60/90 triangle the "height" is always 1/2 of the hypotenuse.

@jimmilne19

8 жыл бұрын

Yes! Thank you. I appreciate your help.

Thanks again Joe, Love your videos. Unfortunately I start to get lost after a while. As some have said would you be able to do a practical version of this from start to finish? maybe a morse taper or machine taper? I know this is a lot of work for you and appreciate your time teaching us. Many thanks Max :-)

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks Max. As soon as my lathe opens up, I shoot a demo and post it.

New sub here. Welcome to Texas.

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

I love Texas. I should have come here sooner. I got tired of shoveling snow before breakfast. Thanks for subscribing.

Hey Joe, while I was watching your other videos I was tempted to ask if you were a Jersey transplant. I too grew up in Jersey and got out when I reached the age of reason. I was taught similar but using chords and chord heights. which to me always involved a bunch of pia equations. I am writing your way down and adding it to my notebook and next time I need it hopefully remember it there.

Have you seen the comment on the bottom of the board? :-) Great video, please keep them coming!

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

I was wondering when someone would point that out. My office manager Jordan leaves me notes like that when I push her buttons a little to hard. With love of course. The one over my left shoulder is another keeper !

Great Math there Joe, but I wouldn't be too worried about hitting the .201 first time, (try to make this feature on the "First End" turning Op') Bore it a few thou' too deep, then skim the face until the .201 height is achieved using the 1" ring & depth micrometer. Doing this on the "First End" will give you a few goes at "Getting It Right" especially if you haven't done it before!!

@joepie221

5 жыл бұрын

You can't always take some off the face if the part doesn't allow for it. Creep up on it and use an indicator or DRO fro reference. I repaired US naval ship valves for years worth over 100K and we didn't have that luxury.

@felgate11

5 жыл бұрын

@@joepie221 I did say "Where Possible" Joe,

@dalemcinnes1834

4 жыл бұрын

@@felgate11 You better edit your post as 'where possible' is not in there. Maybe you see it but I don't. Just sayin. Dale in Canada

Nice use of geometry. As others have mentioned, a practical example to see what you also mean by using carriage to adjust and how then you would use the compound would be nice. Are you assuming then that you always cut with the compound to the exact same amount?

@Gottenhimfella

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter what the dial reads on the compound, because it is just a way of traversing the tool. You just need to start outside the work, and stop cutting when you either get to the bottom of the hole if it's a truncated cone, or when you start cutting fresh air if it meets a cylindrical bore. In both cases you can tell from the sound. You do need either a dial gauge or a DRO (or a graduated leadscrew dial) to measure how much you move the carriage towards the headstock before taking that final cut. If your target dimension to the top of the ball is 0.5 and you just measured 0.6 you need to move the carriage 0.1 to the left before taking that cut. This is because the ball will be permitted to move into the hole the same distance the carriage allowed the tool to move into the hole.

How do you measure the top or contact points of the ball though?

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

I have precision bored rings ( I made. usually an inch thick ) I place over the balls and use a depth mic to get to the top of the ball.

Joe: You just reminded me why i became an autos hop major in 1961. i'll stick with measuring the off-set of wheels and leave measuring balls to someone else.

how do you accurately measure a diameter on a taper? For example, you want to know the taper is exactly where it should be relative to the shoulder on an HSK taper? I see people are sellin master gages for this, but then how are those made? If these two features are not correctly spaced, the taper on these holders will not seat properly in the spindle. Same goes for Capto, BT taper which uses the flange (BIG/Kaiser), etc.

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

When it comes to tapers, comparators or CMM's are the tool for the job. If you are good at trig, calculate some square corner gage points for your taper and turn steps into your part. Fill those corners with dykem. When you cut your taper on your part and wipe out those corners, you can be sure your taper is very close to where it should be.

Joe, I used your second construct to derive two equations. One solves for height as a function of taper angle, ball radius, and ball height, and the other solves for width as a function on taper angle, ball radius and ball height. I plan to put these two equations in Excel so I don't have to repeat the construct for every combination of angle, ball diameter, and width that I come across. I made a video of the derivation, and made sure to mention that it was your construct. Do you mind if I post it? I ask because I am sensitive when playing with or modifying other peoples ideas, and I don't want to come off as me trying to present your ideas as mine. Thanks, Chris

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Hey Chris. This wasn't my idea, just something I learned loooooooong ago. I have no problem with you passing it along. Its deep, but very useful. Have at it bud. Thank you for getting into it.

@shadowdog500

7 жыл бұрын

Joe, I just sent you an e-mail I made with an Excel spread sheet that includes the two ball taper measurement as well as variations of your ball height calculations. Once I try it out, and tweak it, I will find a way to post it somewhere for free distribution. Thanks Chris (UPDATE, I sent an updated copy of the spread sheet because I had the inputs labeled incorrectly on the taper calculation.

How'd you get the whiteboard that shape ... !

@joepie221

5 жыл бұрын

It came with the curved shelving unit !! Actually, the GoPro lens distorted it. Its actually perfectly square on the corners.

I knew you didn't sound like you're from Texas! I had a feeling that was a north Jersey accent. I grew up in south Jersey.

@joepie221

5 жыл бұрын

What exit?

@wwilcox2726

3 жыл бұрын

@@joepie221 ouch!

Hi Joe, sorry but I could not find that Illinois trig book you talked about on MSC. Any idea where I can get it.Thanks

@Shop-Tech

8 жыл бұрын

Jim, contact Paul Rousseau at Ash Gear Co. Tell him Joe Pieczynski from advanced Innovations referred you. Mention you saw the book on my you tube video. They should sell for under $4.00 ( plus shipping.) Paul Rousseau paulr@ashgear.com

@jimdeprey6584

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks Joe, I will contact Paul.

T-shirt Idea at 10:20 ".201, .549, .750, .250, radius of .500, .750. The information is there. All you need to do is break out your Trig book. This is going to take a couple minutes to absorb." - Joe Pieczynski ( all under this diagram^ silkscreened on the shirt)

you could just intuitively recognize it's a similar triangle to the right triangle 3-4-5, therefore the cord distance is 600

just use a shell over the part and check with depth mic over the ball set your mic on the shell

So you just keep cutting with the compound until the .201 dimension reads 0. This when the ball was inside the cone demonstration.

Joe......it's clear now that you're a bit of a wizard with accurate machining. You're reputation is looking increasingly solid. I've got all the trig ( all that detail you patiently included) but didn't get two crucial things. 1) How do you measure the 'headspace' when the part is still in the lathe and you're trying to hold a ball in the taper. 2) What was the cylinder with a bore 1.002" and 1" thick......... all about............ ? And...........Nobody else in the comments queried any of this.... am I the only viewer who missed this? A video that leaves the trig out ( see kzread.info/dash/bejne/fJ1lj8mflqzKe6g.html .......for all that) and deals with the on the machine stuff would be just the thing, at least for me. Thank you Joe.

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

Hi Ian. Both of your questions lie in the answer to the second one. The cylinder is a measuring aid intended to sit on the face of your part, go over the ball and allow the depth mic a place to sit for the measurement to the top of the ball. If the ball is 1" in dia. and the ring (cylinder) is 1" thick, all the math should just jump out at ya from there after you have the depth measurement. The ring (cylinder) is just a measuring aid. If this doesn't help, please tell me.

for a second I thought it was the recipe for rocket fuel

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

You never know...I might have one !

I'm confused Joe, wouldn't the uppermost diameter of the first example be .6 and not .5? Maybe I got my math wrong.

Pythagoras was a good guy...

Very interesting Videos there is allot to learn. Odder videos from you move to much. Try to set the camera still otherwise the movement cause not to see your videos. Hope the comment is constructive

@joepie221

8 жыл бұрын

Your comment is welcome. I posted earlier videos rather quickly and didn't take the time to set tripods and holders. I hope you find some of the newer stuff easier to watch. Thanks for the feedback.

Add to the title "method to accurately measure headspace"

or just make a mod lol inspection have it

pathagarus's wife kept complaing he has hypotnuse

Are you going to do the case where you don't know the angle and you don't know the diameter? Just use two balls of different diameters and you should be able to compute that.

@joepie221

3 жыл бұрын

So tell me how that feature is represented on the print and we can move forward.

@kennethlerman9664

3 жыл бұрын

@@joepie221 I was thinking of the case where you might have a part and want to duplicate it or create a mating part or create a drawing. To be honest, it's more of a mental exercise than anything else.

@Gottenhimfella

3 жыл бұрын

@@kennethlerman9664 Joe is thinking like a machinist, they always have a print. He seems to forget some poor sucker has to make the print, and as you point out, they may be detailing (or you may be making) a part which has to fit an existing taper hole whose angle is non-standard or unknown . But I think there are other possible reasons to reach for the 2 ball method: say you're using a tapered end mill or reamer of unknown precision, or perhaps a regrind, and you want to check if the angle is within tolerance. It's hard to measure the tool if the flutes are helical. Or you might be producing a taper bore using a boring head in the mill, either one of the Wolhaupter, Narex or d'Andrea style (where the diameter can be changed using autofeed at the same time as you are power downfeeding), or a nifty slewing guideway unit like Tree used to make. Once again you cannot measure the taper angle you will achieve without first achieving it (at a somewhat smaller diameter, ideally)

That's a great example of a diy way of measuring headspace. Add for example "method of accurately measuring headspace"to the title though. The gun guys will love your stuff . Great job keep up the videos a bunch of us amateurs are a little slim on tricks and theory.

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

I can add search details to the video so it will show up when head space is entered. Thanks for the suggestion.

That's a great example of a diy way of measuring headspace. Add for example "method of accurately measuring headspace"to the title Great job keep up the videos a bunch of us amateurs are a little slim on tricks and theory.

How would you measure a solid cone extending from the end of a rod or on the surface of a part?

@joepie221

6 жыл бұрын

Are you cutting the cone from nothing, or just wanting to measure it?

@philcook9967

6 жыл бұрын

I am interested in both to see how it relates to the video on conical features.

@joepie221

6 жыл бұрын

An internal taper or conical feature is certainly easier to measure. When I am tasked with cutting a positive cone, I have done it 2 ways. If time and space permits, make a precision female gage and and know exactly what you have. Once the gage is placed over the cone, you can measure between the end of the gage and another parallel plane to determine what your cone looks like dimensionally. The second way is to turn 1 or 2 steps into your part where the sharp internal corners of those cuts lie on calculated gage points of that taper. Blue them up and turn your taper until you just erase those remnant lines from the square corner prep. If you can't take the part to a comparator, these techniques work well.

@philcook9967

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question. Your videos are a big help to all your viewers and your presentation is outstanding!

Add to the title "method to accurately measure headspace"

@joepie221

7 жыл бұрын

I checked that out. If you had the dimensions, this would work perfectly.

That's a great example of a diy way of measuring headspace. Add for example "method of accurately measuring headspace"to the title though. The gun guys will love your stuff . Great job keep up the videos a bunch of us amateurs are a little slim on tricks and theory.