Products and Videos Discussed *Support what we do* at KMTools.com Katz-Moses Multi Sled *Free Plans* kmtools.com/products/katz-moses-multi-table-saw-sled-free-plans Slab Flattening Video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/moNr27duY63OfdY.htmlsi=dgx0UOE6hs6tjmnu Slab Flattening Bit: kmtools.com/products/cmt-orange-tools-2-3-8-spoilboard-surfacing-and-slab-flattening-bit James Wright Flattening By Hand: kzread.info/dash/bejne/rJiVmdCmh7G1dbg.htmlsi=GUtMmZLM12oAORKa Katz-Moses Flattening by Hand: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h4iE2MWRht3IaaQ.htmlsi=DAD_y3yQrvY-6KYs *Katz-Moses Tools Router Table* shop.kmtools.com/RouterTable *Router table + 6 in 1 Universal Trim Router Jig Discounted Bundle* shop.kmtools.com/RouterTableBundle *Router Bushings* kmtools.com/products/brass-router-guide-bushings-for-template-work 11 Hand Plane Tips: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gXikuMmpqLu1dbw.htmlsi=vqBt7QJhvU1GT-P3 The Strongest Magnets on the Internet: kmtools.com/products/ultra-strong-neodymium-magnets-10-pack-10mm-x-5mm-n52 *Spiral Router Bits in Depth - Ton of Super Slow Mo* *Donate Now to The Katz-Moses Woodworkers with Disabilities Fund* shop.kmtools.com/DonateNow *The Katz-Moses Woodworkers with Disabilities Fund ABOUT* kmtools.com/pages/kmww-charity

Nice video. One minor point, though. You should run the planer sled through with the stop in front of the workpiece, not behind it. If you think about the forces involved as the planer pulls everything under the blade, having the stop at the back doesn't do anything at all. The only reason the workpiece didn't come off the sled is the hot glue and the fact that the friction between the workpiece and the sled is much higher than between the sled and the planer bed.

@rivernet62

7 ай бұрын

I came to make the same comment. The board pushes the sled through, not the other way around. It's a common mistake.

@axileas356

6 ай бұрын

A agree 100%. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 I tried it without glue to hold it down and that’s exactly what happens. I was confused because I thought it should be on the front. So I have been sticking the stick on the front of the board thinking I must have missed something important in the video. I’m sure they must know this???? What is it not explained?

@rylandfoster1937

3 ай бұрын

Chances are they did know this and it was an error that was overlooked during editing. Then again, prime example of not following everything on youtube to the letter, just because people claim they know something doesn't actually mean they do after all.

Great video. Thanks for returning to YT. You’re my favorite Woodworking channel because you’re planned out, concise, instructional, thorough, without all the chitchat blah blah to lengthen the video.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

I love that thank you so much my friend.

@loganpirie4387

6 ай бұрын

Best hair too.

Great video! I have a small shop and did have a 6" jointer. I got into hand tool and Planes, when I figured them out I sold the jointer. I prefer winding sticks and planes over shimming the crap out of a board on a sled. I still have a 735 but always have to decide planer or plane. To each their own but with a rough board, I can be more efficient using a hand plane to roughly, or perfectly flatten one side and then run it thorough the planner or not. I am older and I have the time and need the exercise. I just love the mental gymnastics that woodworking requires.

I would love to see some samples of doing this with longer boards. If you are milling up boards for a table top for instance, I know the concepts would be the same, but an 8' planer sled or jointer jig is never shown on these types of videos...

Wow. I'm formally trained in wood working and I'm impressed that your content is radically superior to most of my education. You are doing exceptional work. I keep thinking you showed me the last hack... And then you show me 3 more. Keep it up. God bless.

Love the router table jointing tip. Great for small shops.

Best part about having to work an early shift on Sunday. Haven’t even finished the video yet but I haven’t seen you put out any bad content. So thank you.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

My guy! Thank you!

@-11BRAVO-

7 ай бұрын

@@katzmosestools anytime, literally. I respect the fact that you are still true to the craft that we woodworkers actually love. Most KZread woodworking is Tik tok trends and “top 5 under $5” and people trying to spread their Temu affiliate link. And those people literally never build anything because they are just chasing clicks and have no talent or skill. I get 90% of them couldn’t cut a mortise and tenon or do anything outside of pocket holes and wood filler. I miss when KZread woodworking was just guys like you, Jay Bates, TWW and stumpy nubs. Don’t get me wrong guys like bourbon month, 4 eyes furniture and timber biscuits have came along and respect the craft. But I’m happy you guys are never trying to spam BS ads and pushing junk on us to get clicks to chase money and it’s because you have real talent to rely on.

Good video. One additional method and my new favorite way to edge joint without the planer is to use a track saw… put the two boards you are trying to joint together, run the track saw right down the middle taking away a 1/16 of an inch off each. Only works if they are pretty straight to begin with but works great for a pre-glue edge

Would love to see a follow up with boards about 6ft in length where you are trying to get some long rails milled. While I have a jointer, it only has a 36" bed so edge jointing becomes tricky.

@warrenwerks

7 ай бұрын

For jointing longer boards on a smaller jointer it would help to have outfeed and infeed support. Use a couple rollers if you have them, if not just stack some scrap wood blocks to match the height of the jointer and you should be able to get the edge you want. A second set of hands helps too if you can get someone to catch the board on its way out

I still need the jointer table to get a super clean cut. I can't get such nice cuts with a tablesaw. This is critical for panel making

The straight edge + flush trim bit is genius. It never crossed my mind.

It is such a pleasure to see you again. Missed all the fantastic learning tricks you bring to us wanting to become better woodworkers.

You wrote "no bs", my 14 year old inner self read "nobs" 😂🍆

@tardis6

6 ай бұрын

As a brit this got me too. Haha

I've spent the last 7 months watching and studying your videos learning as much as I can so that I can start woodworking when I get home. I've been shopping for a used plane and jointer but I kind of want to try these methods out first. I got a few used hand planes before I left and never got to use them. I'm so excited to give them a try first even though it will take longer. Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it! Thank you!

@petrsidlo7614

7 ай бұрын

If you plan on doing a lot of dimensioning by hand, consider looking into wooden planes. They are much lighter and the wood on wood contact is much smoother, you will wear yourself out considerably less than when using metal planes. The downside is that they will get out of flat at least twice a year, but for dimensioning its not that big of a deal.

Great video as always, very helpful for hobbyists such as myself

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Awesome to hear! Cheers

I’m just under a year into this and I really wish there were more videos stressing the advantages of a jointer. KZread is my primary learning tool before practical application. I saw too many videos saying “no jointer, no problem” or some iteration of that sentiment. It’s too difficult to call anything the single biggest game changer as I was able to put together a pretty nice shop fairly quick. The jointer is right up there for sure. I primarily mill all my own lumber and my goodness, the jointer has revolutionized how and what I can do. I was blown away and couldn’t believe I had waited that long. A lot of people have said not to waste your time on a bench top version, I bought the Cutech 10in and for what i do, it has been an absolute dream. I’ve found I never really need anything over 4ft. I’ve jointed as long as 5ft on it

I am glad to hear that you have found this book to be very informative and helpful for your woodworking project kzread.infoUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO It sounds like you are well prepared and confident to build furniture for your house. I commend you and your friend for your enthusiasm and willingness to learn new things from this book. I hope you enjoy your woodworking journey and create some beautiful pieces.

I work almost exclusively with a ros and trim router on my balcony, I cannot wait to pick up a slab flattening bit and the compact router table to speed up the process. Thanks for all of the help!

Thank you for the no BS series!

Loving the new series! Well done.

Action packed! Thanks for this one.

Thanks for all the great tips Johnathan! I never take for granted the lumber I get is flat and square and you gave me some new ideas. 😊😊😊

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Yeah even s4s is not always swuare

Thanks again for another great video amazing tips especially for beginners with limited tools.can’t wait to see what is next

Yeah! Straight to the point. Great videos, thanks!

Brilliant video thank you

Very useful, thank you! I love the fast format!

“What?” I said, “Another woodworking video on how to mill lumber without a jointer? There’s a gomillion of those out there already!” Buuut… I watched it anyway (‘cause JKM videos are always entertaining at the very least) and whaddya know, I actually LEARNED something new!! I’ve never used my router table to joint an edge before. Of course, I never had a router table before I bought the JKM router table kit that came out a couple months ago… which is an awesome piece of kit, by the way. Now I’m gonna have to try jointing some lumber on my new router table. So…. I have yet another excuse to keep on not owning a jointer. 👍

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Thank you my friend!!!

Excellent tutorial. Thank you.

Another 10 out of 10 video, thank you!!!!

That was a great and helpful video!! Thanks so much JKM!!

Wish I had your shop, but more importantly, your knowledge. Another great video. I am learning a lot from you. Keep'em coming.

So much great info. Thanks! And, I really appreciated seeing the mini router table with the 3x3 router plate. ❤️ I bought one earlier and LOVE it.

Hey John, Thanks for the vid. Feels like it's been a while. I recently made an L fence for my table saw. One more method for edge jointing a board that works pretty good. Keep up the great work

Jonathan, Thank You!!! Great video, and it is one that I will save as a reference.

It's funny just sitting here having coffee and goin through my mind was jointing with a plainer and other machine's and you upload this vid lol... but I was thinking what if you had a 8 foot board your running through plainer...how would one do that...make a 8 foot sled or is it just not feasible...anyone ever do this...of course I'm fairly new at this so don't beat me up for dumb questions lol...thanx again. John...you are the man no doubt....

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Yeah just use an 8 ft rip off a piece of plywood. Cheers

Great coverage of milling techniques for those of use without jointers or even planers. I've used these methods, but you offered some great advice for fine tuning the process. BTW, I've found that playing cards work as excellent shims for adjusting the offset of the intake versus outtake sides on the router fence when using it as a jointer.

Great video Jonathan. Thank you for the information!

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

My pleasure. Cheers!

Another fantastic video, Jonathan! Thanks a bunch for all the tips!!! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! You too!

Another simple great instructional short concise “doable” video from JKM! Thanks for the excellent content you put out.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Much appreciated!

Great information.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Practically all my work is done by hand and most of my wood is salvaged so it makes milling a time consuming process. Some things that make things easier for me are: - Having a selection of plane irons with different cambers, lots of camber is great for targeting problem high spots - Focus on removing high spots first - Use a drill to reduce the height of knots, helps keep plane irons sharp longer and helps prevent the plane skipping over them - Sharpen blades often

I just loved this class. Thank you very much. 💚💛🇧🇷🌻

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Nice share.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

Great video as always. Another way to get a perfect edge after milling one side flat is to use a track saw (or circular with guide) and then go to table saw for a parallel one. Use it a lot myself in my one garage workshop.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Great tip!

No🚫BS❗ Gotta love it!!! Keep it Cummins💦, pardner. REALLY love the series. Ewe be the man; 🐏!! Our predecessors knew how-2 do 💩in the simplest way possible - thatz why we're here today to tell about it - and wee really need 2dew the same IF wee want future "others" to carry-on as wee have. Hair's the question wee presently have to deal wit (or half-whit): how will ewe doit when amazonia iz gone? Keep it⬆️, itz GREAT stuffs!!!👍👍👍

This is a great video with basically every method to flatten boards, I subscribed and should have sooner. It's not as common to get someone who does this for a living to also be good at explaining it, and thinking about the different perspectives. It's funny when pros choose to use a simpler method because for some jobs it's just not worth setting up for. Just imagine how creative they had to be way back in the day when there were only hand tools.

I would agree jointers are a very important and useful tool however, in the 40 years that I have been doing woodworking, I have never owned one and haven’t actually used one since shortly after high school! somehow I managed to get the projects done, and the checks always cleared! A planer on the other hand in one way or another is used on pretty much every single project I’ve ever made!

Thanks I got a lot out of that

Great content and tips. Love this new series. While I have a jointer, it is a very small cabinet makers 4" with little capacity. It works for 95% of what I need... mostly trim pieces and cabinet faces. For those few times it does not, these tips help greatly.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Yeah that’s a small jointer so good to have a planer too

Thanks

I have the little cheap WEN jointer. It makes things faster for me.

When working with material wider than my jointer I will roughly joint one side with hand plane. You don’t have to get it to the point of finished, just flat enough so the planer can do its job. Also, framing squares make great winding sticks. As long as they are different colors

I do like that you covered using hand planers, but I'm also reminded of why I'll probably never do it that way... a lot of work and way too easy to mess up. :D At the same time, I literally facepalmed when you used... a straightedge template with a flush trim bit. It would take me years to come up with that.

Thank you thank you thank you

Slab flattening mill, and a track saw works too.

Good video. I wish you massed produced a mechanical, 12-inch planar sled to eliminate the shims and hot glue.

I really like these No BS videos. Thanks for these. I suggest turning your planer sled around. Mine is made of melamine and one time I did not use enough hot glue to secure my board. The rollers slid the board right off the sled. If the block is on the back of the sled, it does no good.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Yeah I only flip it around once we’re pretty close to flat and taking small passes.

4:12 Another option is to use a radial arm saw with a chuck attachment and some kind of surface planing bit. Radial arm saws can be found rather inexpensively and are very versatile.

Would love to get insight on jointing longer boards without jointer, such as for a tabletop or desk top. Right now I use a track saw for one edge and then table saw

Thanks. Would have liked some alternatives on the last part, as I do not have a table saw. Been considering buying parallel guides for my track saw instead of a small into portable table saw.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Track saw is a great option. A simple combo square will be easier and cheaper for setting it parallel

Also helpful tips when you piece of wood is wider than your jointer.

@katzmosestools is that a delta rc-63d or N in the background? I have a rc-63N 15hp with a Byrd shelix head in it. Those machines are power houses and well made.

Been using my hand planes religiously now that I’ve gained more experience with them and I rarely touch my planer/jointer!

I have gotten some S4S boards, and not a one of them was straight in any direction. Perhaps the high humidity of the Pacific NW.... For straightening up longer boards, I have a 10 foot long straight edge, 1 by 2 by 1 aluminum channel which I got long before any one ever got those tracks for the circular saws... Clamp it to the table saw fence, and to the 'infeed' bench behind, and make a pass. I generally have more out on the infeed table and less on the outfeed table. It may take a couple of passes to get a perfectly straight edge.

Great video as always! I'm curious, where did you get those wedges? I use the wood ones sometimes, but they tend to get broken or repurposed. The wedges you're using look nice?

Hmm, now you have me thinking. I have a jointer that takes up a large space in my work shop. Its one of the least used tools in my shop. I wonder if I should just sell it and use the other tools I have on hand.

Has anyone ever told you that you remind them of Jimmy Kimmel? I love both you and Jimmy Kimmel. Keep up the great work and thanks for all your knowledge...

Great video. I just have one question. When you run the sled through the planer, why is the cleat on the back? Since the rollers are on top, pushing the work piece forward, wouldn't it make more sense to have the cleat in front of the work piece to prevent the work piece from leaving the sled behind? Thanks.

I have a smaller jointer but need to edge joint long boards for a tabletop - about 5 feet. Which of the approaches would you recommend besides the hand plane? I don't have money for new tools but have all the others. Thanks!

I didn’t know Jimmy Kimmel taught woodworking too. Awesome, this was very helpful!!!

Great stuff! I am trying to edge join 5 6' boards. Too long for my router table, too long for my jointer, too long for the jig on my table saw.. help!

For twisted boards would flattening with a planner sled actually save you thickness. As opposed to the whole length being taken down to one side, the two sides or brought down to the middle?

Would it make sense to run the sled with the retainer in the front?

Tbh if you have a cambered iron Jack plane, it’s really not any slower in my experience. You just have to develop the skill of flattening by hand. If you’re using a straight iron plane or a low angle Jack, yeah, that’s crazy slow.

Is it worthy to import DW735 since I cannot buy it here in Europe? Or should I just get DW733? Thanks for advice.

Question. How thick a board can you joint at router before you hit the limits with a long straight bit? Love these videos.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

I guess you’re only limited by the length of the cutting flutes

@calston155771

7 ай бұрын

@@katzmosestools thank you for the response. Does that opens the possibility of face jointing narrow stock up to say 2 1/2 as well? BTW, ordered the 3x3 routing plate this week. Great gizmo thanks to you and her for bringing it to market. Arrived yesterday. Can’t wait to use

Jonathan, you are still running the sled through the planer backwards. The fence does not help to push the board through. The rollers push the board through. So, the problem with sleds is that they can fail to keep up with the board. Sure, your hot glue is helping to keep the sled and the board together. But the stress is on the other end of the sled. Feed the fence end of the sled into the planer first so that the board, which is in contact with the rollers, effectively pushes the sled through the planer by pushing against the fence.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Yeah once it’s pretty flat and taking small bites it doesn’t matter. The hot glue I used is strong and the rollers push down so hard it doesn’t matter. I flip my boards to alternate any imperfections in the cutters.

@houdini30031

7 ай бұрын

Maybe I'm mistaken, but doesn't the cutterhead rotate opposite the feed rollers. So, if the rollers want to push the board to the front of the sled, the cutterhead is pushing the board to the back of the sled. I would think there would be more force from the cutterhead, thus making the back stop on the sled more necessary. But, idk... just a thought. I'm still a newbie at this woodworking thing.

Good video. I wonder, if you have some experience with hand planes, could you use a scrub plane (+winding sticks) to make the board somewhat flat and twist free and then use a thickness planer? How "flat" exactly it has to be? I would just like to point out that as someone that uses only hand tools and than can get regionally only thick and rough sawn boards, ripsawing 10 inch wide boards by hand is a reason that first serious machine is going to be a bandsaw. Hand planing s6s to ripsawing long boards is a walk in a park in comparison 😁.

@Control-Freak

7 ай бұрын

I with am you brother, when I look at the time to set up what ever power tool vs using hand tool, I can get a lot done manually during that setup time.

Without going into detail about the specific advantages, when jointing with a router (either on a router table or when using a straight edge to guide the router) it is advantageous to use as large of a diameter router bit as your router can handle. As a general rule of thumb, it is preferable to use as large of a cutter as you can when machining.

I have a question for ya. When i started down the woodworking rabbit hole I bought a bunch of S4S, wrapped in plastic with some very stiff carboard rails to keep everything straight. I popped the clingwrap and let it acclimate for about 2 months before taking out the rails, and it still went totally wonky on me. I'm about to get my thickness planer and jointer finally, though. But two questions: if the idea of buying S4S is to not need milling, then wouldn't you have to get pretty lucky with how the wood behaves after you get it home to even use it? And second, is there a particular reason the thickest boards I can find of S2S or S4S variety like 2.75" (12/4 iirc) ? I don't have a truck so I've largely been dependent on ordering online and I've never seen anything thicker.

Check your orders… I literally ordered the slab flattening bit last night from you!!! Thanks for the video JKM, did Jason get you that bottle of weller yet or do you need someone to …”remind him”

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Hahaha yes!

Not directly related to this video, but what square fits the pocket in your apron?

I'm probably mistaken, but it seems when I've seen other videos of folks using planer sleds...the end with the stop always goes into the planer first. I don't even have a planer yet, but I'm still confused.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Once it’s pretty flat and you’re taking small bites the flute is strong enough to hold it but if I was going by the book I should’ve had the stop trailing.

And if it hasnt already been mentioned, the track saw ($$) to joint the edge, especially on long boards.

Another great video. I bought your stop a while back and think it is great except for the texture. The chalky feel is off-putting.

When jointing the face in your planer, do you start Cup Up or Cup Down?

❤

I'm still consodering to buy a planer/jointer because even tho it's more than twice the price of that dewalt planer in my country (my budget is around 4000€ and the dewalt is 1600€) the job is SO MUCH FASTER and EASIER and more PRECISE it's woth the money, I don't want to spend all my day making jigs and everything while I could juste put the board trough the jointer/planer and make it perfet in 2 minutes, but it's also because I have the luck of having enough space for a small jointer/planer

👍🏾

Oh, third question actually: I saw in another video you said not to buy those benchtop jointers. But for me that's really the only option I have. My biggest constraint is space and I have absolutely nowhere I could even store a proper jointer. Would you opt for the benchtop jointer or just stick to sleds and shims for face jointing with the thickness planer?

@chuckgrumble5440

7 ай бұрын

I would probably shim it as I have a 6" benchtop and it mostly is just in the way. If you work on really small length items its fine, but wish I would have saved up and got a floor model.

Jonathan, can you recommend a hot glue gun? I use the methods in your video but have only used tape to hold down pieces. I think I need the glue gun now for some pieces.

I would look at making an electric hand planer sled. Not many people seem to know you can do this.

I've fought with double faced tape from various local sources like hobby and big box stores and they all suck getting off or don't stick. What do you use?. Thanks.

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

I have a whole video on it. Great stuff and linked there

7:30 I could never get this to work. I know it's the standard method, but no matter how hard I've tried to set it up, I always either get snipe or a skinnier board with no better edge than before. Instead, what I've done is this: Standing on the fence side of the table, I set the fence away from the close edge of the bit at the distance equal to the desired board width plus some small margin. Then I place the (non-rocking) edge against the fence and route the opposite end straight. Then, adjust and repeat on the other side. Does this take more time? Sure. Am I wasting more material than if I could master the standard method? Perhaps, but then again, I don't have to deal with swapping outfeed shims when switching to other edging operations, so IDK. All I need is a straight edge and a couple clamps for a fence, so this method will work if all you have on hand is a router, router table, 2 clamps, and a board w/ one straight edge.

Link to the shims?

Quick question? Why are Japanese chisels so much sharper and why do they keep their edge for so long? I have 2 sets and I love them but they are extremely difficult to sharpen. Could you do a video on that? Thanks for this video it was very helpful. Also if you could sell Japanese planers and chisels in your shop I would buy.

@Control-Freak

7 ай бұрын

They are very cool, I have one and love it! Can't say it is sharper or better but I love all my chisels the same.

@chuckgrumble5440

7 ай бұрын

they are harder to sharpen due to high carbon, they are really really hard like 66

@ChrisHayes6

7 ай бұрын

@@chuckgrumble5440 thanks Chuck, any tricks? is there a youtube channel specific by chance?

Mr. Bean and Nic Cage….what are they working on?

@katzmosestools

7 ай бұрын

Stealin’ your girl 👊

You forgot about the tracksaw!

Of course you could also just use hand planes.