OBJECTION!! The prothean VIs can sense indoctrination and are reliable narrators!

I think it takes a gifted writer to argue with himself so precisely

I didnt see the whole final sequence as a dream, but i did see it as the catalyst being untrustworthy. Not a lot of what it said made sense. All of its “new soloutions” could eventually circle back to the same problem of an AI rising up to destroy all life. The synthesis ending is suspiciously like what the reapers are doing already with harvesting life creating husks etc, and controling the reapers leaves the door ajar enough for shepard to lose his mind and allow the reapers to return to their original purpose. Not to mention the starchild asks “do you think you could control us?” It doesnt straight up tell you that you can control the reapers. It tells you that edi and the geth will be destroyed and that shepard will too because of his cybernetics but it is literally the only wnding where shepard lives. I also find it hard to believe that the red blast could distinguish between a geth unit or a vi or anything with a cpu and to me sounds more like a hail mary to confuse an injured and exhausted shepard.

Remember at the end of me1 where sovereign takes control of saren? After you kill him, sovereign is powerless and is destroyed by the fleets. Maybe something similar goes on with harbinger and shepherd? Like perhaps he's trying his hardest to control shepherd (who it's said about has a very strong will) and since shepherd is fighting back against this mental attack , the scenario manifests itself as the three choices, and if you choose destroy(the one starbrat tries to dissuade shepherd from choosing) the effect is a failsafe of sorts that sends the self-destruct signal to all reapers via the citadel (which is a relay ) ? I love the IT theory

Not the debate format I was expecting, but it’s a welcome surprise. I would enjoy seeing this as a side series to the presidents’ content.

I think the Dream Sequence is what really sold it to me. The oily shadows bit by the rachni pushed it and other instances that can’t really be explained. Though to be fair, it is a theory and I think it was born as a result of not wanting the trilogy to end on such a “sour note.”

@weareharbinger914

4 ай бұрын

I think it helps that a frequent figure(that you ultimately see as the Catalyst) is that random child which you have very little actual connection to, but he is more prominent that ashley/kaiden, thane, mordin, anderson, etc, all of them. I personally don't think Shepard would care that much about a random child over so many people he knows dying in front of him or that he ordered to their death, rather than 'in shuttle and hit by laser'. Especially one so stupid that he doesn't trust the GALACTIC HERO.

Interesting you framed it as "only after the reaper beam". Because the prothean AI on Thessia states Shepard isn't indoctrinated at this point very late in the game, it's only when Kai Leng enters that it claims an indoctrinated presence is near.

@Warhammer_lover

8 ай бұрын

Wow, a very strong point. I wish the creator of this video used it, instead of this "Let's agree to disagree" bs

@lastmanstanding7155

7 ай бұрын

Problem is that an indoctrination implies it's complete. You ARE under the influence. That is distinctively different. Think of it like this: you have the same VI in a room and you place one person in there with them who is totally normal. They aren't indoctrinated. Then you start blasting them with the reaper waves wouldn't they then become indoctrinated? Sure yea before it was fine. But over time they got sufficiently influenced and then became indoctrinated. It's a minor but important distinction. Although I think the term of choice being indoctrinated just needs to be expanded on. There's the people like TIM and Shepard who are on their way to it and then there's people like saren and the husks and ME3 illusive man. I think a term needs to be invented for that mid stage process.

@Warhammer_lover

7 ай бұрын

@@lastmanstanding7155 you literally pulled this out of your ass. There has never been a "complete" or "incomplete" indoctrination, it was always either is, or isn't. Tim is clearly indoctrinated after ME2, like all the cerberus because of Reaper tech implants. Sheperd clearly isn't, and we now the process isn't instantaneous, we just have degrees of control, with earlier stages having just mental afflictions, and later stages having full-on direct control. If Shepherd would've been indoctrinated he would have never reached the starchild.

@alexwerner487

7 ай бұрын

Because he isnt indoctrinated yet also that operative has literal reaper tech in him. Shepard is still himself and resisting.

@Warhammer_lover

7 ай бұрын

@@alexwerner487 which means that Thessia VI would've noticed Shepard, since there isn't "a little indoctrinated" or "full blown indoctrinated", there is either is, or isn't, Shepard isn't, Kai Leng is. Simple as.

Huh. Guess Papa Trump and the other presidents took a day off today

@hannaosterlund5974

8 ай бұрын

Big sad

@californiansniper2133

8 ай бұрын

Cry about it 😆

@Sumblueguy41

8 ай бұрын

@@californiansniper2133nah thats just you, lil niece

Now I have the sudden urge for Mass Effect 4 to pick up right at the Citadel beam because the ending really was all in Shepard's head. Then instead of a shitty ending to debate over, we'll all be discussing the beginning of the next chapter instead. What a turnaround that would be.

@norad_clips

8 ай бұрын

That would be golden!

I don’t really believe the theory but I think it’s weird that the writers make this big deal of characters being pro-control like The Illusive Man are indoctrinated and then they give you the choice to do control If they wanted to do that they should’ve made The Illusive Man/Cerberus joinable in 3

@Abfallkannibale

8 ай бұрын

What the Illusive Man sought was control in the sense of domination, though. Not necessarily the same thing as the way of "control" Shepard chooses. They basicly become one with the greater Reaper-intelligence and give it new purpose and meaning. Similar to the whole Geth vs Heretics situation explained by Legion in ME2.

@Lord_Helix

6 ай бұрын

Also in ME1 Saren's final speech about how Sovereign upgraded him to have the strengths of both organics and synthetics with the weakness of neither is eerily similar to the Synthesis Ending

Edgeworth calling James a "verified idiot" was extremely in-character

Great idea for video, love to see a Ace attorney debate over best romantic partners in mass effect.

I really enjoyed this format for the video, and I really like the middle of the road take on the indoctrination theory at the end. I’m very much so an indoctrination theory believer, so having those beliefs challenged is always enjoyable, as it helps bring people who love the game’s little details together, believe or not. It’s great to keep such an amazing franchise alive with discussions like this.

There is NO REASON why Shepard should be having those dreams at all if they are Renegade, and Paragon Shepard should be dreaming of the people he lost, NOT that stupid boy.

They are forgetting one big piece here in the original version of me3, if you choose the DESTROY ending with the highest of assets (meanining the third final version of destroy), then you get that small little cutscene at the end where you see shepard breathing covered in conrete and rebar indicating he HAS to be on earth This moment goes further though cause in the EXTENDED cut, its still there and is even EMPHASIZED by the music instead of being in sheer silence. And that breathing only happens when you choose destroy

I think theres something wrong with this version of Phoenix Wright.

Just as I said to my friends after finally finishing ME3 two days ago: I created a headcanon paragon-control-ending according to a momshep-character for this to make it less rough. Still heartbroken af over it though, ngl. Very fun video to watch, though!

honestly, I find a major flaw of indoctornation. EDI is constantly monitoring Shep. There would be cognitive effects and signs that EDI would have picked up on. It's even noted after Thessia that EDI had been monitoring his stress levels thought his suit and of course they have brains scans and such which would have been preformed on Shep while he was in alliance custody that EDI could and probably did get through Chakwas if by no other means. If Shep was indoctornated then that means failing and negligence all around which seems unlikely with Shep having come from Cerberus and thus the Alliance would fear brainwashing and EDI knows about indoctornation which means she would know to look for that also The judge said the theory was unconfirmed by a writer but it was actually just straight up said to be wrong which is different. Edgeworth should corrected that then he could have still had it as a support for his arguement, even if it wasn't the slam dunk it was intended to be adding this in as I watch, the pile of bodies was an atmospheric choice probably made before they had to trim down the game to complete it. We also know the push to the beam didn't stop after shep was hit as there was more people behind shep who we later hear got wiped out, could be their bodies

@RaphaelRoyoReece

8 ай бұрын

Agreed. We don't know how long Shep was knocked out for, the alliance could well have made another push, had heavy casualties and Anderson makes it on in that push.

@Warhammer_lover

8 ай бұрын

As another commenter pointed out, prothean VI on Thessia clearly states that Shepherd is NOT indoctrinated. Some may state that "it may be faulty after all these thousands of years" but it works just fine when Kai Leng comes in, meaning that it does work and that Shepherd is, in fact, not indoctrinated.

Who sucks the copium harder the people who choose to have fun and believe indoctrination theory or those demanding fans of a video game treat a dog water level ending to a much beloved franchise be treated like holy gospel?

@rookcapcoldblood2618

Ай бұрын

I think it’s the people who shove the theory so hard down your throat that they make picking any ending other than destroy into a bad option. Destroy Purists, who insist that you need to kill the Reapers because that’s what you originally set out to do and any other option is letting the bad guys win. And yes, those people exist. I know them.

I don't know how these videos don't have more views. I loved the edition!

I’ve always hated the theory because after I got my perfect Synthesis ending where I really felt like I saved the galaxy, my friend who introduced me to the games told me all about the indoctrination theory, and called me an idiot to my face. He told me that I turned my back on my original goal of killing the Reapers and disrespected every sacrifice that had been made by my squadmates and the galaxy. This was literally 30 minutes after my first full playthrough, and it killed a part of me when he straight up shamed me for making the choice I thought to be the right one. So to me, the theory is absolutely not valid, because people like that exist and very strongly hold those opinions. They’re out there hurting people because they want to be right so badly.

I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your work. I only played Mass effect 1 and 2 once before this year (as released) I was young and missed a lot of the poltical machinations and world building of 1 and didn't apprecate the combat of 2 as I was a CoD obsessed goblin in high school. I picked up andromeda on a sale and as I looked stuff up for it your vids popped up and all the effort and passion you put into your work was so infectious I bought the legendary edition and beat the entire trilogy twice this year alone. Once normally and the triple insanity check (no ng+ of course.) The world building of 1, the character writing of 2 and the tatical combat of 3 are all joys I would have missed out on if not for your work here on these videos. So yeah, thanks very much! I've never heard of this theory till now but with ME4's reveal its probable that they didn't think of it orignally but there's enough there that it could be reconned like the Last of Us pt1's ending was to just continue a story that should have had its conclusion. The weird dreams make more sense with indoctrination that what probably was their orignal idea that players were going to gravitate to some loser kid who just so happens to be the same form as starchild?! Also the colors being reversed with Blue/Paragon being control and the destrucion of the reapers being Red/Renagade dispite the entire goal of the trilogy was to destroy said reapers also fits the theory well. Another comment said this but I would be so excited to see 4 start with a boss fight against maurder shield's, and going up the beam after fighting indoctrionation and escaping the grasp of harbringer, turning on the catalyst and it isn't just its a cureall like 3 but wipes the majority of reapers and a majory of the friendly fleet in the blast range leaving remnants who are still a galatic threat, plus leviathans who consider themselves the true organic rulers of the with the entire galaxy. Every speicies is spent getting the crucible online leaving more work for the Alliance (mostly Shepard) to get malitias going as they stop the next galactic threat.

I do think that Shepard didn't need the infinite ammo and should've been able to use one of their armor abilities for the encounter with the Illusive man. We've seen class specific love during the Omega DLC and they at least took the time get different melee animations for each class. Another point in the Indoctrination Theories favor is that Shepard died and was rebuilt between Mass Effect 1 and 2, so any seeds Sovereign could've planted could've been undone unknowingly because of his death or kept on/brought back by Miranda and Wilson's efforts to revive him to his original condition (with a few upgrades) before he died as the Illusive Man ordered. And also, while the AI on Thessia or Vigil on Illos have said that Shepard is not indoctrinated, who is to say that the effects can't kick in afterwards or that the Reapers couldn't have upgraded their means of indoctrination since the past cycle. Although, like other commenters said this is a big blow to the argument of it's validity.

Ah damn no gumshoe throwing confetti

It’s been so long since I’ve played the Phoenix Wright games, this was a nice trip down memory lane.

something tells me you really have an issue with the ending and it might even be personal xD.

i thought you would mention the stargazer scene after the endings, it doesn't change regardless, even if you choose the refusal ending, so it is possible that in the real world someone does reach the conduit (possibly Anderson) and open citadel's arms, and right after the crucible docks it releases an EMP blast similar to the Destroy ending in Shepard's head, and since the blast from the destroy ending damages all tech, and the stargazer scene is long after the events of ME3, it is very possible that when the kid asks "When can i go to the stars?" and the stargazer replies "One day, my sweet" it implies that they are yet to figure out how to restore the mass relays, since it was a reaper tech, and most of them get destroyed regardless of the ending (if we take that the destroy ending is the one that happens in the real world). We know that stargazer was telling the story to a kid, he could've made the last part up to entertain the kid, no one wants to hear that the main character of the story dies in the finale just like that. Besides, the blast could've killed Shepard right away, and everything that is going on "inside the head" is actually all made up on the spot, "rushed" if you will, by the stargazer. Then there is the beginning of the scene, when the kid asks stargazer if it all really happened (referring to the whole trilogy). Telling the kid that all that didn't happen would be kind of wrong, wouldn't it? So the stargazer replies: "Yes, but some of the details have been lost in time. It all happened so long ago." Let's break it down. "Yes" would serve as a propper answer to not disappoint the kid, "some of the details have been lost in time." would serve as a fix for various plot holes that kid might have found, "It all happened so long ago." is there to solidify both the "Yes" and the "details lost in time", by making it seem like it all really happened. That makes kid think that the whole story is concrete, while in reality only everything till the Harbinger's blast is real. Stargazer tells half the truth to the kid, only to make them happy. Wow, i really had a lot to say, huh? It's not even an argument for the indoctrination theory anymore, more like an addon to it, or even it's own theory since i implied that the whole "in the head" sequence is made up by the stargazer to not disappoint the kid. Indoctrination Theory : Stargazer branch real???

This is art. Phoenix Wright is always a treat

This is so fucking well done! Had me grinning ear-to-ear, you really captured the characters with this dialogue. Also, as a fan of Mass Effect, it was a good debate.

I wish you would have included the destroy ending breathing scene as a rebuttal to what happened in the real world argument 12:33. That is the only thing that really gives credibility to IT. There is even video evidence of one of the writers at a convention stating he is surrounded by rebar. I will give up believing IT if one person can give a sound argument against the breathing scene. It makes no sense he could survive a fall from space after being in the middle of an explosion the size of a space station.

This video could've gone on for another 30 minutes and i would've enjoyed every second

Very cool format to display both sides of the argument. About the Rachni, however: their *sour yellow note* was in the context of their communication, was it not? We know the Rachni communicate with their minds, kinda like the Hanar with other Hanar. The queen parallels their communication with music to help visualize what their language is like to us: mental music. So if a note (like a word) is described as "sour" and "yellow," words not often attributed to music, we wouldn't really be able to understand what it is. The Rachni Queen's usage of "sour yellow" to describe their language, which is entirely mental, is not meant to be taken literally. Its usage is to help understand, not actually visualize.

Man using the Ace Attorney format was so perfect. This whole video had me rolling🤣

Now if we only could get the presidents to debate about it too...

The major issue was that they copied the ending to Deus Ex, including the Control, Synthesis, and Destroy endings.

If we are taking the Indoctrination theory at face value, then the final question of this video is a very valid concern. What DID happen outside of Shepards mind? Surprisingly, this is simple to explain, though it doesn't provide entirely concrete proof of what happened afterward. The explanation that makes the most sense is that everything we see from Shepard's perspective after Harbinger's beam (until the final decision) is what Anderson is actually doing in real time. Think about it. When Anderson relays his position, he is almost always where Shepard is in description, yet we never see him until we reach the control panel. Then, when the Illusive Man shoots Anderson, Shepard is injured in the same position, though never being shot in that area. It can be inferred that the interruption, and the reason that the Crucible isn't firing isn't because 'Shepard hasn't spoken with the Starchild yet', but rather because this was when the Illusive Man arrived and shot Anderson, thus interrupting the process of firing the Crucible. This is why I believe the final decision is entirely within Shepard's mind and is happening concurrent to Anderson's opening of the Citadel arms and firing of the Crucible. Thus, it would follow that Shepard's decision in regard to what happens with the Crucible directly affects the Crucible's actual action. After all, the Crucible is still interfacing through the Citadel, which was constructed by the Reapers. So essentially what I'm saying is that Anderson did get into the control center, and did eventually activate the Crucible, and was still shot by the Illusive Man, but that the ultimate outcome of what happened with the Crucible came down to what Shepard chose to do when offered the illusion of choice by the 'Starchild' (who most likely, at least in this theory, is actually Harbinger speaking to Shepard).

I recognize that the theory has been debunked by the writers, but I see nothing wrong with looking at the ending of ME3 through the theory's lens, particularly if it is more enjoyable to the player. IMO, it creates a more believable and interesting ending than the one provided, and this stands regardless of the writers' intentions.

@Nockblock

8 ай бұрын

No it doesn’t, if shepherd is indoctrinated than the game has no ending which is worse then the less then satisfactory endings we got , I get wanting to find a way around the endings but if you have to ruin the story to do so ,then what’s the point.

@zane33611

8 ай бұрын

@@Nockblock It leaves the ending up to head canon. I understand that isn't anywhere near an ideal end to a story, but neither is the one that we got. I see no issue with leaving it up to the player to decide which ending is preferable to them.

@Nockblock

8 ай бұрын

@@zane33611 Rock and a hard place I suppose.

Great vid

Am I really the only one who likes the ending? (With the extended cut of course).

Lest this re-enact the flame war after ME3's veritibly bad ending (the extended cut ending isn't that much better tbh), I was sold on I.T. because of the cool video that Acavyos put out 11 years ago. The totality of the evidence swayed me. Shephard was also in contact with other potential reaper artifact in ME1 UNC missions. The missing survey team mission has glowing orbs in the mine that look uncannily similar to the reaper orbs we see a lot of in ME3.

Edgeworth arguments about Developer intentions dont really matter as Wright already said that he is just there to prove that coming to the conclusion that Shepard is indoctrinated based on what happens in the game is Valid. It doesnt matter what the Intentions of the devs were because all we care about is what is in the game. Also for what happens during Shepards indoctrination bit. Time doesnt need to pass the same in the dream as it does in the real world. Shepards indoctrination could have lasted a few seconds. What I think happened: Harbinger shot his laser beam and to make sure that he didnt miss anyone he tries to quickly indoctrinate everyone close to the beam just to make sure nobody gets to the it. Correct me if I am wrong here but I think I read somewhere that Indoctrination doesnt necessarily have to be a long term process. Reapers can also try to do it quicker but that usually kills the indoctrinated subject after like a week. But that doesnt matter as he just wants them to not get to the beam. Anyways Shepards dream sequance happens and they choose destroy. With enough military power they will get the cutscene of them waking up in the rubble. This is them waking up right after getting hit by the laser. The indoctrination failed but now they can freely go to the beam to actually open the citadel arms.

This all gives on the philosophical definition of a valid theory, which would be based on sound logic. The theory does not have sound logic as shown at the end. The relays are destroyed, we see what happens throughout the galaxy. If the ending were in Shepard's head, we would have to come up with an unseen, unknown explanation for how the Crucible was activated. It's not a valid headcanon like the Citadel DLC being the ending. In the perfect destroy ending Shepard lives, meaning they could be fixed up and live in the apartment. The indoctrination theory has no such ability to happen since the Crucible was activated.

That all said, the catalyst showing up as the boy that she’s been dreaming about the whole game can’t be a mistake and the answer to Edgeworths last question of what really happened is that we see what happened the whole time, more or less. The last stages of indoctrination are happening and it’s fighting Shepard fiercely but that doesn’t mean Shep isn’t still slowly walking to the control panel the whole time and making her choice. I always just saw it as Shep has been stronger of will than most of their opponents and the indoctrination has taken longer to work. That big blast and close proximity to Harbinger was probably enough for them to finally get their hooks in enough for the next level of advancement and they push hard, but she prevails. I think it makes a lot of sense and it makes a lot of things scattered throughout the game super weird if they’re just arbitrary, but regardless, I love this trilogy even if it’s officially “not canon” and the real ending is just rushed and dumb

Obama on vacation i see

My 2 cents. Overlord dlc: It was shown due to Shepards cybernetic implants Shepard can be hacked, and his/her eyes can turn green. Showing the player that Shepard can now see what David Archer sees in a digital way. Why that is important is because the Reapers can cause the person under going indoctrination to see "ghostly" apperences and create similar memories that can be placed in multiple minds. Here is the best part where all endings are canon but scary at the same time. For you see...Shepard has been seeing a child from the start of ME3, but oddly enough this child gets no help from anyone, and haunts Shepards dreams whenever a major event happens. It just so happens at the end of the game the star child takes the form of a child that has plagued him/her from the beginning due to the failure that looms over Shepard. Now why this matters is because there are only 2 endings that upsets the star child and that is refuse/destroy as it sees these 2 options as a big taboo for Shepard will KILL the galaxy of life in so way fashion or form. However synthesis and control are the only 2 endings where the Reapers will live and it only takes sacrificing Shepard to become one with the Reaper network. In my opinion the Reapers knowing how much Shepard's will has been indombitable by this point yet is conflicted with all the seeds of doubt on which way forward should they take does drumb up a valid explination of how Shepard is dreaming while he/she sleep walks and multiple people like TIM and Anderson are figments of his imagination for oddly enough the SR2 crew couldn't have known Anderson died for only Shepard was there and Hackett got confirmation that "someone" made it.

@jmax6750

7 ай бұрын

If you refuse you basically throw away the first chance for the catalyst to fulfill its purpose since it was created, if you destroy the reapers you just set the events in motion that lead up to its creation in the first place

Nah it was all part of the Vision on Eden Prime and we've yet to play the actual trilogy yet.

@lastmanstanding7155

7 ай бұрын

Mind sex

I will defend many things about Mass Effect including it's ending. Guess me and my brother are the only ones who despite realizing there were flaws woth the ending, enojyed it. Not just saying we were satisfied with the the journey. We were actually satisified with the endings. Don't hate on me for this just really love the series.

Comment for the algorithm

During the final showdown with Shepard, the Illusive man, and Anderson, the Illusive man hits Shepard with 'Indoctrination energy' that causes Shepard to see black tendrils around the edges of the game screen and compels him to fire once into Anderson. Your Shepard is being subjected to some level of Indoctrination and is resisting it during that scene. The game shows you what happens when your player character is being subjected to indoctrination in that scene, and you don't experience those effects outside that scene.

@Abfallkannibale

8 ай бұрын

Exactly. If the child is anything, it is a ptsd-hallucination. Basicly a ghost after the un-movable wall that is Shepard finally cracks when earth is attacked. Paragon-Shepard is always calm and in control throughout me 1 and 2, but in 3? At least in the german version they sound frustrated, angry, tired and depressed all the time.

@diongrey5033

8 ай бұрын

@@Abfallkannibaleat the end of the walking dead season 4 tie list what happens at end 👍👍

Imma be real gamers, the Mass Effect games are definitly some of the best from their generation. But this indoctrination theory is on the same level of cope as Sherlock fangirls justifying a secret fourth episode. Let's just take a page from common wisdom and be happy the journey was so great, even if the destination was lacking.

@glowhoo9226

8 ай бұрын

No, we have to hold EA and BioWare responsible or they’ll do it again with dragon age dread wolf and ME4. ME3 had serious flaws, dragon age inquisition had serious flaws, andromeda was a train wreck, and anthem….we don’t talk about anthem. We can not keep passing things off in an attempt to enjoy the games. Ea and BioWare have to know this shit isn’t acceptable.

I tried to enjoy the video, but the text box was clearing too quickly. May I ask why you decided not to voice the characters this time? Anyway, my vote is invalid. I refuse to believe that the guy who survived the Leviathans in person mind control would so easily succumb to Reaper indoctrination.

My take on 'what was actually happening' is that Shepard still did make it to the beam, they got onto the citadel and up to the crucible same as what we see in game. Just because they are seeing indoctrination hallucinations and what they are seeing isn't entirely real, doesn't mean what they are doing isn't. Obviously Anderson and the illusive man aboard the citadel are hallucinations trying to sway Shepard at the last minute as subtly as possible. Meanwhile the starchild aboard the crucible at the end is a mix of real and fake. I think their appearance isn't true, but their words and everything are the actual words of the reaper collective. It's them taking the last opportunity to try and convince Shepard to abandon destroy as outcome. However, and I think this is actually the largest hole in theory. The starchild actively advocates for synthesis. It's not just that the starchild denies the idea of destroy, they also talk down about the idea of control, saying it's a temporary solution that would result in the cycle beginning anew eventually. Even when you say you could just not decide the starchild says that this is possibly the worst option since no decision is the same as letting the reapers win, and at least destroy and control deal with them, at least temporarily in controls case. The most telling thing is that the starchild only really advocates for synthesis. That's the only ending that they only have good things to say about. Which if we go by the indoctrination theory that means the reapers want synthesis. Now given the starchild says that organic life will always eventually create synthetics, which will in turn always turn against organics, synthesis is the only ending where that can be fully avoided. Synthesis gives true understanding between organics and synthetics and as such is the outcome the reapers would desire most given their stated goals. Of course you could argue synthesis is much more sinister and that the reapers are lying about ai being their motivations. In the end it's all just fun theories and ideas to make up for a lackluster ending.

Lmao that was fucking amazing

I think there may be a case that shepard was out for a while after the blast, and the marauders were cleaning up bodies from the battlefield to deliver through the gate later to use as material. shepard must have been left behind somehow, maybe anderson rush through and got through the portal as he said, and that's the reason he was ahead.

@glowhoo9226

8 ай бұрын

He wasn’t ahead, he was in an entirely different part of the citadel. There was literally ONE path to the controls, and that’s the path Shepard took. And it’s also never explained how the hell the Illusive man got there, since EVERYONE on the citadel is dead, yet he’s still alive? There’s also zero reason harbinger would leave the beam unattended after when it knows that they’re trying to get to it.

@poxy1000

8 ай бұрын

@@glowhoo9226 saren was able to live INSIDE of a reaper, your telling be Tim, a Reaper Augmented, indoctrinated leader of a spy network couldn't find his way in? they probably gave him a tour through the whole place.

Okay man, I watched 4 minutes, and damn that doesn't work in a long shot. The beeping is too distracting, you have too much info to fit into the word box, and I see no reason this couldn't have been infinitely more entertaining presidents, with joe as wright, Obamna as the judge and Donny as Edgeworth. Looking forward to your vids with the crew of ME, your "Who's the strongest squadmate" was brilliant, wonder what other topics can be explored in that format.😊

I know it's cope but the thing that sends me is that Bioware have that big Reaper indoctrination machine. - They use it to turn colonies of miners into husks - They use it to indoctrinate TIM - They use it to indoctrinate an entire elite Alliance blops team, some of the most intelligent and loyal operatives they'd have Shep gets directly blasted and is exposed to it for days : 0 effect, it just does nothing :^)

@glowhoo9226

8 ай бұрын

Not to mention the fact that EDI had reaper tech inside her, and so does legion. Shepard also directly handles reaper artifacts in one of the N7 missions. There is no reason he isn’t being indoctrinated when the leviathan was able to invade his mind so easily.

I say Valid :)

Mass Effect writer: "This theory is untrue and we never planned to make it that way" I think that should be the final answer

@matheuszanlorenzi6076

8 ай бұрын

Invalid! I refuse to accept the official writters explanation and will continue to cope

@labadaba1147

8 ай бұрын

Author vision and fan interpretation doesn't need to alaways agree with each other, many pieces of culture starts to live their own lives. That's the joy of self interpreting things.

@Warhammer_lover

8 ай бұрын

​@@labadaba1147it works only of the author is dead, and here the author is very much alive and is telling you outright, that your interpretation is wrong.

@labadaba1147

8 ай бұрын

@@Warhammer_lover That's not how interpretations works. It's not about wheter author is alive or not, it's about how you understand something. Think about paintings. Painter might had an idea he wanted to express, but if you understood it differently these emotions are still real to you. BioWare didn't think about indoctrination ending, but if you think that's what happened it's your interpretation.

Hot take here. I didn't know for quite a while that bioware had created a free dlc as an extended ending for each of the possible endings in Mass Effect 3. For a long time I only had the original endings for control, destruction, and synthesis and I was perfectly happy with that. I didn't need an indoctrination theory to help me sleep at night and let me enjoy the game. I also never had the chance to play the Citadel DLC and once again was just fine without it. Also for me it's synthesis>>>refusal>>>>>>control>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destruction. I refuse to kill the geth who are 10 times better than the quarians as a whole. Individuals are fine though. I also refuse to kill EDI when she and Joker have just started a romance.

this will be controversial, but I dont dislike the endings, sure they are very lack luster and none of them are really happy, but isnt that kind of the point? this was a war of survival against a race of highly advanced ai killing machines who were un matched militarily, even a fully united galaxy wouldnt be able to fight them off, considering the losses our cycle inflicted on them, its safe to assume that the protheans were able to destroy atleast a few reapers, which means that for atleast that one cycle, less reapers were made than were lost from the harvest, yet despite that, they still had numbers and power enough to put the entire milky way on the defensive on every front. the only shot at victory is a hail mary long shot and even if it succeeds its going to cost lives, shepard is a person who has cheated death innumerable times, and has shown themselves to be someone who gets things done no matter the odds, shepard will never get rest even after the reapers are defeated because they are someone who paragon or renegade, does their job, and there will always be another job for someone like shepard. their death was the only way to truly conclude their story, look at how exhausted shepard looked when they are sitting down with anderson, this is a person who has given everything for the galaxy, even their father figure, they have sacrificed so much for the galaxy, and even after shepard does the impossible, gets to the citadel after being hit by a REAPER LASER, the kind of laser that has been shown to cut dreadnoughts in half. shepard isnt even allowed to die peacefully because the galaxy will always need them and this is demonstrated when hackett interrupts the peacefull silence of mourning after andersons death asking once again for shepards life, this is the same hacket who has contacted you many times through the games to give you mission after mission. synthesize and control are ok, but one ending is pretty much the end of all world building since any problem can be solved with god ai shepard saving the day, and the other just feels too perfect, in a game where the general tone has been a dark and thrilling overture, synthesis is almost too ideal an ending, and also removes all choice from the galaxy, everyone is assimilated into a single species of race and altered without their consent and everything is just perfect, no way that kind of ending is campy and not really satisfying, afterall the entire point of the game has been around choices and the consequences of them. that leaves us with destroy and as bitter an ending as it is, with the loss of both edi and the geth, it serves a better narrative purpose, it offers a chance at a new start and is the only ending that doesnt result in shepard being forced to solve all problems forever. TLDR I think the endings are better than people make them out to be, and i found destroy to be really bitter sweet and actually enjoyable.

@glowhoo9226

8 ай бұрын

You’re just trying to justify the endings so you can play the games again without thinking about how bad they are, because that will make you dislike the games more than you do now. We have to hold EA and BioWare accountable for things like this. People like you are the reason they kept releasing games with major issues. Every single game BioWare has released after ME3 has had major issues, or been a complete joke(cough cough Anthem and Andromeda)

@Zeitgeist2000

8 ай бұрын

@@glowhoo9226 I havent touched either of those games with a 10ft pole buddy. if more people were like me no one would have bought those games. dont blame me because im able to immerse myself into a story better than you and am able to enjoy things even if everything isnt wrapped up in a nice little bow and tucked away on a shelf for possible sequels in the future. what we got wasnt all that bad, not my fault you cant immerse yourself into the game and experiences of the characters like i do.

To be honest, this is kind of annoying

Well, that ending was a cop out. I'm guessing to mitigate backlash? Indoctrination Theory is a piece of fan fiction, regardless of wether it's valid on a logical standpoint (it's not) it is not a valid explanation of the events of the endings because it's just not part of the story, that's it. At best it's an inventive, if contrived, excercize in fanon at worst it's a coping mechanism from people who took the games WAY too seriously. I am obsessed with these games as well, more then most, but this theory was ridiculous the day it came out. It's just embarassing how people are still defending a decade after it has been debunked. Next time you are gonna tell me Ash Ketchum was actually in a coma all along...

I personally dislike indoctrination theory because it effectively removes player choice, don't get me wrong I'm strongly pro destroy. Still, I think making all but one of the choices objectively worse than the designated "good" option goes against the trend of the other endings for ME1 and ME2 where there wasn't an objectively better option when you were faced with a decision.

Bruh im not here to read a video

It was a good theory. I do not think they went with it, it essentially is coping, but that original ending was really bad, hell, in that one the relays blew up, meaning most of the galaxy should be just...gone. Because someone was too stupid to remember just one game prior what blowing up a relay does. Not to mention they cannot be rebuilt(ignore those lying slides), that was technology beyond the current galaxy, attributed to the protheans. It IS weird that Shepard can be in direct contact with reapers/their tech so much and not be indoctrinated. Willpower is great, but it only goes so far. Hell, for Arrival, everyone was indoctrinated there and i doubt they all sat in that room waiting for Object Rho to indoctrinate, Shepard gets stunned by it, then knocked out by it, then it sitting in proximity for 2 days. It really doesn't make much sense how the whole sequence goes down, Harbinger drops down, blows everyone up, kinda, and even after 'killing' Shepard for a second time...doesn't check? Harbinger is meant to be smart.

Hasn't it already been proven by now that this is just something the fans made up? Because it is, duh!

Bruh, I ain't reading all that.

@Warhammer_lover

8 ай бұрын

Put some talking presidents in there, and maybe we'll talk.

Not a fan of indoctrination theory, but i hate those dream sequences and the kid so much that if indoctrination justifies their existence, I'll take it

Now that I have everyone's attention, I have something to say.. Knockers That is all.