51:15 yeah they pretty much implied that once the relays are destroyed everybody would be stuck wherever they were. I'm pretty certain that was one of the main factors why people hated the original ending so much. It implied that, regardless of your choice, advanced life as you learned to know it over the span of three games would end. Millions would die due to the inability to supply them via the mass relays and so on.

@billypaul1234

2 жыл бұрын

Yet! That was the main reason I was so upset when the game launched. Thank God that was changed because you can't just kill off your universe like that.

One thing that will never stop bothering me, is the visuals moving from a modern "Star Trek" feel, to a more "Gears of War" militaristic sci-fi.

@fuzzydunlop7928

5 жыл бұрын

That's what the kids are into - death and genocide and edge.

@concernedcitizen6313

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I agree. In a lot of ways, ME1 was my favorite. Felt like Star Trek meets B5.

@Aplesedjr

5 жыл бұрын

Fuzzy Dunlop because me1 had none of that, especially the race that exists to purely to commit genocide every 50,000 years.

@w0t_m818

3 жыл бұрын

I always thought that the ramp up in militarism was because the second game is spent preparing for the Reapers after they learn about them in the first game and the third game is spent during all out war with them. It's like Star Trek was peace-time humanity and the Gears Of War style came in for war-time.

@Mexalen81

3 жыл бұрын

@@w0t_m818 Totally agree. If you look at the early seasons of DS9 there is an entirely different feel and atmosphere when comparing to the lauter seasons during the dominion war. Still the same Star Trek show.

Favorite things: the combat, weapons and large cinematic events. Least favorite things: not seeing different species actually work together at the end. The journal

@nukenade4623

4 жыл бұрын

i mean, we as humans cant even work well together, what makes you think other species dont share that similarity?

@FatalFist

4 жыл бұрын

I will admit, Combat has carried on with Andromeda and of course Anthem. The only good thing to come out of Anthem tbh, where as Andromeda was actually satisfying if a bit bland.

@treymagathan847

4 жыл бұрын

NukeNade The threat of complete annihilation. The entire theme of Mass Effect is unity. While each species has its strengths and weaknesses, we're all better off standing strong as one against a common enemy. If you never picked that up, you played the games incorrectly.

"Mass Effect 2 is the worst of the series", "The Two Towers is the best Lord of the Rings movie", you're treading on mighty thin ice here mate.

@daxecutioner101

4 жыл бұрын

What's next? Dark Knight Rises and Return of the Jedi are his favorite!?

@SaberRexZealot

4 жыл бұрын

There isn’t a worst LOTR film, only a best one: Fellowship of the Ring.

@maurovaz6081

4 жыл бұрын

@@BillBilliamson in no way or shape Mass Effect is better than Mass Effect 2 And Fellowship is the best film in an Amazing Trilogy.

@maurovaz6081

4 жыл бұрын

@@BillBilliamson are you actually serious Mass Effect aged terrible in terms of gameplay, the game almost unplayable. What better quest? I agree on the villain though loved Saren.

@maurovaz6081

4 жыл бұрын

@@BillBilliamson 2 side questions are are the companions quest. Saying that Mass Effect has good gameplay and Mass Effect 2 has bad is just laughable

Just reflecting on ME3, It's surprising how many of my favourite and emotional moments are in it.

“The ending isn’t that bad” Fair “Mass Effect 2 is the worst game” HOLD UP

@leramar

5 жыл бұрын

That was my reaction as well.

@oliviawilliams6204

5 жыл бұрын

I actually agree with him

@gasparguruoftime5475

5 жыл бұрын

1 has the best story, 3 has the best gameplay. 2 is just kind of this weird side quest disguised as a full game, where mission to mission your enjoyment is altered because if you don’t like the character the mission is solely focused on (aka your second party member gets nearly NO dialogue) then you’re screwed until the mission is over. I just played the trilogy for the first time, starting in January and ending recently, and I’m utterly floored by how much praise ME2 gets. On the other hand, I totally understand why people hate ME3, and am surprised how even the extended cut ending totally lives up to the disappointment I’ve heard about for years. That said, ME3’s issues crop up long before the ending. But the combat (and sometimes the humor/character interactions aboard the Normandy) is so fun that it carries things along for me. I can’t say the same for ME2.

@bozoclown2925

5 жыл бұрын

He is correct in his rankings in my opinion. But he makes an excellent point to judge the series as a whole. It works much better that way. In that context, 2 had some important character development.

@Revealingstorm.

5 жыл бұрын

Andromada is better than the first game

I feel the arguement that shepard brokered a peace between the geth and quarians is even worse considering it really was just shepard talking down a trigger happy admiral. The vibe I got is that the geth always wanted peace and reaper influence made them hostile. So once the reaper on rannoch is destroyed the geth would welcome the quarians home with open arms as long as they stop hostilities.

@amanibob1416

4 жыл бұрын

It's literally said word for word in the game, so basically: You are correct.

@lorcaterran5055

3 жыл бұрын

The problem is that what they say in the first two games is true the genocide that quarians and other races say if it happened.

@MysticZefer

2 жыл бұрын

Who cares the geth and quarians die at the end of ME3. All technology stops working including the floatilia who was at the final fight. Everyone is dead at the end of the game. People think they survive the truth is everyone dies because they're in space when all technology stops working.

@strider117aldo9

Жыл бұрын

@@lorcaterran5055 Plus, they took out the Dyson sphere, which most likely contained the Morning War-era Geth. It's basically taking out the jaded/pro-war section of a population, causing a country to give up since they don't want the war.

While I don't agree with you on several points and I am not convinced by some arguments, I really liked your video and hearing your opinion. Thanks for all your time and effort you put into it!

@bigdog517

3 жыл бұрын

Ahh, a reasonable person on KZread. Rare sight. Take care.

@DevineCourage

3 жыл бұрын

I agree @Mexalen81 !!

@Szpulenso

3 жыл бұрын

It would be great if you took time and write where your disagreement lies!

@Mexalen81

3 жыл бұрын

@@Szpulenso I'll need to rewatch the video, as it's been a year since I saw it. When I come around to do so, I'll write a concise answer.

@hectorsanaifric343

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mexalen81 please do,I'd be interested to read it.

31:00 his death actually plays out differently if you talk to him in ME2, he talks about a song he worked on and wanting to retire. Then in ME3 before he goes up he says it wouldve been nice to study those seashells, then at the top he hums a little song

@DGLDrums

3 жыл бұрын

Just finished the game and wasn't aware that him singing his song wasn't the default cutscene until this video as it was quite heartbreaking to see it... still I just love those little tweaks! :)

@kingkebo3960

3 жыл бұрын

He is the very model of a scientist Salarian

@angel8fingers

2 жыл бұрын

@@kingkebo3960 amazing singer

The only defense this ending gets is MARAUDER SHIELDS RIP

@adamhogan5191

5 жыл бұрын

His name...was Marauder Shields. #NeverForget

@Liberator130

5 жыл бұрын

And his wife, Brooke.

@Jaydogg222

5 жыл бұрын

He tried to save us from the ending, but we wouldn't listen...

@woodsiee

5 жыл бұрын

hold the line

@Art0r1a

5 жыл бұрын

@@woodsiee Personally I prefer to get the job done and go home.

I would argue that the comparison between Controlling the Reapers and Controlling the One Ring is a rather accurate one. In both settings, the story has hammered it in time and time again that over-ambition, and trying to control the source of power would inevitably lead to a person being corrupted. In LOTR, Suaron's power makes the Ring corrupt the user, from Hobbit to Maia, anyone who comes into contact with it will inevitably fall to under his sway. In Mass Effect, any attempt to study or control the Reapers' technology has always led to indoctrination. Mass Effect 3 has you consistently fighting against Cerberus, and arguing against the Illusive Man's rather insane ambitions. The goal from the very beginning was to Destroy the Reapers. To suddenly abandon that goal right as you have the opportunity in favor of a plan that you have already dismissed time and time again, just because a hologram told you that it might work would be completely out of character for Shepard. When Frodo began to hear a voice telling him that controlling the One Ring was possible right as he reached Mt. Doom, the reader would rightly assume that its just the Ring fucking with him. While I think the Indoctrination theory is wrong, I can see why many people would choose to believe it. The reason why any choice other than Destroy is contrived is because they weren't properly set up. Synthesis in particular is a complete ass-pull, and not something that was even mentioned as remotely possible anywhere in the 3 games. Rewriting the entire galaxy's DNA with the Crucible is just space magic, while Mass Effect has set itself up as a Hard Sci-Fi setting, so Synthesis just breaks our ability to suspend disbelief.

@miyamotomusashi410

5 жыл бұрын

You explained beautifully why indoctrination makes a whole lot of sense in the broader picture. It might after all be the most plausible, satisfying reading of the story when all is factored in. As for your objection to synthesis: One could argue that biotics, indoctrination and even mass effect technology don't qualify as hard sci-fi. While synthesis isn't explained enough though and thus seems rather hard to believe even within the ME universe, there might be yet another way to understand, you guessed it: Just another fake option to deter from destruction of the Reapers, Harbinger finally having got into your mind.

@holythirteenx1

5 жыл бұрын

What's your favorite color?

@jcanal0221

4 жыл бұрын

Synthesis is the worst ending and the only one in which the harsh critics are justified in my opinion.

@FatalFist

4 жыл бұрын

I would have much rather have accepted that the Crucible was a way to utilize the Reaper’s IFF signal to create a galactic cascade of a shut down. And your level of trust and military might would determine whether the Geth and EDI survive.

@Napoleonic_S

4 жыл бұрын

indoctrination theory is wrong, by occam's razor... according to this video. well firstly it's not really about whether or not there was a hidden ending in the released game or not, and whether or not the theory is right or wrong... the same occam's razor can be used to demonstrate all of the weirdness on the final scene... the indoctrination stuffs were already in the foundation of the lore, then we have spooky dream sequences happened multiple times, remember these scenes are meant to be personal, in the big picture they meant nothing, they don't affect the war... so whatever all the scenes revolving around these 2 points, they were meant to reveal personal things to shepard... and then the "final nail to the coffin"... the climax sequences... you cannot deny that there are several visual and audio cues that made the sequences feel so unreal... dream like... the game abruptly transitioned from gritty portrayal of war to surreal in the last moments of the game. another thing, the crucible.... well here's the thing too... the reapers built the citadel... so how and why did the thing that meant to defeat the reaper require something that was built by the reaper and could get controlled by them??? did they ever explain about this? so whatever it was, things are too weird to not consider there was something else that was meant to be before the game rushed for release. or maybe that was all coincidence... have anyone from bioware straight up deny the indoc theory?

30:12 Not true, you can convince him to sabotage if Eve dies and Wrex will find out after Citadel III but Wreav will never figure it out.

@jimijenkins2548

Жыл бұрын

Wrex needs to have been killed on Virmire to achieve that outcome. Probably talking with Wrex strengthens his resolve to cure the genophage.

30:10 you don't actually need to kill Mordin to sabotage the cure. If you kill Wrex on Virmire in ME1 and Destroy Maelon's data in ME2 you can convince Mordin to go along with the sabotage. This is the ideal renegade scenario and is actually a pretty good instance where choices in all three games matter.

I like how the modding community fixes a lot of issues from the main game, and for free too. Example: Priority Earth overhaul mod has a small detail, adding Anderson running up to the beam alongside you so it explains how he gets in there too

Regarding the "AIs always rebel" plot point, and whether it makes any sense: you make good arguments defending it, but the problem is that the game itself needs to be making these arguments too in order for that plot point to work. Instead it just asserts the inevitability of AI-conflict as fact, and Shepard can't really argue. It also breaks the "show don't tell" rule. More specifically: what the game shows us about synthetics directly contradicts what it tells us. The Catalyst *tells* us that conflict with synthetics is inevitable no matter what. But our interactions with EDI and Legion, and the entire quarian-geth storyline, *show* us that peace with synthetics is absolutely possible if you work at it. Small wonder that most fans don't find the Catalyst's assertions compelling. Overall a great video. Really forced me to think about why this specific issue bugs me so much more than the other many issues with the ending.

@FatalFist

4 жыл бұрын

Emma Furth not to mention, in achieving an alliance with Geth and Quarians, the Geth lend their forces to fight the Reapers. You’d think the Reapers would realize that, “Hey, why are you fighting with them against us and not with us against them? What’s the deal?! This doesn’t compute.”

@Camelotsmoon

4 жыл бұрын

There are these contradictions with the geth/quarians and the ending, because the ending was written by 2 writters, in a vacuum, with no other input from anyone else. That's why it feels completely disconnected from the entire story, because it was. I agree, obviously.

@omnibusprimephd7914

3 жыл бұрын

I would argue that the quarian/geth conflict IS the game showing that inevitability. The way I see it, the Reaper logic was simply imperfect, and overcoming that conflict in the game just exposes it. The cycle DID fall into that predictable conflict, and maybe its possible that other cycles did as well, but the Reaper invasion is always inevitable no matter what. Thats just my 2 cents at least.

@johnathanera5863

3 жыл бұрын

@@omnibusprimephd7914 exactly. Even in out own cycle there was war with synthetics that almost wiped out their creator species. In javiks time the same thing happened. The game showed us as much as it needed too to prove that the reapers are at least somewhat correct.

@LunaticLK47

3 жыл бұрын

@@Camelotsmoon More like one writer and Casey Hudson.

For me I was disappointed that all the war assets I collected had no impact on the final battle. I could play the game 100% or 20% and the final fight is exactly the same. I would have liked to see the Rachni and Krogan fight alongside Kirrahe and Zaeed. But none of that showed up in the end

@themaskedman757

2 жыл бұрын

So in the extended cut, it does change quite a few parameters surrounding the fight and even if the crucible was properly built or if it malfunctions, but this only happens in the destroy ending ( which is fucking stupid ). Look up ME3 destroy vaporization ending, and look at like the first vid if ur curious, it’s pretty dark

42:48 man the first time I saw that scene it made my cry like a baby. Thane was my second favorite crew member when he died and that scene played out I cried hard and for awhile. I remember having to pause the game and re gather myself afterwards. He loved his friend so much his last breath was to pray for them. Still hurts me to this day.

"What if the pedestrian is Piers Morgan?" Then the Goddamn car had damn well go out of its way to kill him.

Looks like someone didn’t get Mordin to sing in ME2...

@epiccarrot88

3 жыл бұрын

Or to talk about his plans after in ME3

24:32 if you miss any items during a mission you can just buy them at Spectre requisitions. They are available once you've completed that mission and missed the item. So there's no need for the fetch quest to stay in your journal forever.

I love the Mass Effect Trilogy, and while the ending of Mass Effect 3 left me flabbergasted, people really need to stop acting like that was the only narrative problem with the game. The cracks started showing long before our ABC color ending showed up. Regardless, I periodically replay all three, because there is still nothing quite like them out there. And with the way things are going for Bioware right now, there might never be anything like them ever again. Another awesome critique, Chris

@maureenbouterse

5 жыл бұрын

@Freia Ricola Thanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to look it up. Critiques of Mass Effect have a way of reminding me of the potential EA and Bioware wasted.

@holythirteenx1

5 жыл бұрын

How was Andromeda?

@Camelotsmoon

4 жыл бұрын

I agree, the game starts falling apart for me in act 3. You get a single mission on Thessia, then you get rushed out the door towards the end.

@Johnny-ux7yi

4 жыл бұрын

well, it's easy to feel flabbergasted with the ending of Mass Effect 3 without the Extended Cut and Leviathan DLC. the Original ending was rushed out the door to satisfy EA's greedy needs. while the DLC's don't make the endings great but they do enough to address the complaints regarding the lack of closure, the lack of distinct endings and even the Leviathan DLC addresses the Catalyst's origins. if all of that were in the Original game, i doubt that ANY of the controversy would have happened.

I agree with you completely that majority of issues in ME3 stem from ME2 completely throwing away everything that ME1 built off and spending entire plot fighting against a completely new threat that isn't relevant again, while also failing to move the main plot forward in any way at all. you can notice how most of stuff ME3 covers is about ending ME1 plot lines. it's also why you have sudden appearance of Crucible in ME3, because ME2 didn't set it up. ME1 ended up with Shephard having a ship, a support from alliance and council, as well as a goal, to explore prothean relics to find valuable info. ME2 throws it all away for cheap shock value and introduces Cerberus, who were only minor antagonists in ME1, and blows them up to be important. Shadow Broker on other hand gets relegated to DLC and is never relevant again either.

@trooperodst6880

5 жыл бұрын

love mass effect with every thing LOVE MASS EFFECT AS IT IS!!!!!!!!!!

@ineednochannelyoutube5384

4 жыл бұрын

The crucible is sudden not because me2 did t set it up, its sudden because it was improvised in the last year of development when they decided they had to redo the entire plot because of leaks.

Mordin's sacrifice is so iconic that to this day every chance I get to use the line "Had to be me, someone else would've gotten it wrong" I use it, at work, to my parents, to friends, i swear if i die saving people, my last words will be that quote.

Actually, I got the pleasure of speaking to a Mass Effect writer when I was at comic con not too long after Mass Effect 3's release. When I asked what they thought about the ending backlash, that someone had to see the whole game as an ending to the trilogy. So right on

@majormarketing6552

4 жыл бұрын

That PR response is so annoying. Their thoughts of the games ending was it ended. Thanks...

@Camelotsmoon

4 жыл бұрын

Well EA of all studios isn't going to pay for them to develop something that wont make them a return for a product already out on the market. The artistic integrity argument was complete bullshit, I mean every artist, however talented, can make a piece of hot garbage every once in awhile; it was about development times and money. It's unsurprising that it turned out so bad, seeing as it was written by 2 people, in a vacuum, apart from everything else, with no other input from the other writers; seeing as Casey Hudson was one of those writers who wrote it, seeing him return to Bioware doesn't really give me any hope for the IP.

@Johnny-ux7yi

4 жыл бұрын

you mean that spoke to Mac Walters?

This video makes me want to play through the games again.

I really appreciate the mention of critiques overlooking the game's events outside of the ending. Curing the Genophage was an event so huge it could have been a conclusion to a separate game altogether, and it was a shame no one felt like talking about it or other events like it after launch because general mood was lampooning the ending, Bioware, and EA.

Isn't the whole problem with using an AI to wipe out organic life, that it's circular logic? If synthetic life will always rebel against it's masters, why wouldn't the AI that was created also rebel against it's masters? So your whole argument about the reapers not killing ALL life isn't very compelling to me. Obviously it's not doing that now, but who says it won't do that later? And if for some reason you assume it wouldn't do that, what makes you assume synthetic life will always rebel against it's masters?

@Camelotsmoon

4 жыл бұрын

"why wouldn't the AI that was created also rebel against it's masters?" The best explanation we get for that reason, is because the leviathans ego was so huge, that they thought if they created artificial life, it wouldn't do the same exact thing that every other "lesser" races synthetics were doing. It's a terrible explanation, because everything we experience before the beam (and the leviathan DLC if you want to pay extra for an explanation for your ending) tells us the complete opposite of what the leviathan and the catalyst say.

Great video (so far) but don't be so mean to Kaidan. While he might seem bland at first, if you get to know him he turns out to be a great friend/boyfriend. I get it that people let him die in ME1 because he has a Y Chromosome and seems quiet and whiny, but when you look at it objectively, he's essentially male Ash, just less judgemental. They're both "normal people" in a crew full of superintelligent scientists, genetically perfected soldiers and other "elites". Kaidan just seems like the kind of guy you might actually run into if you lived in the Mass Effect Universe. I for one appreciate that, sorry for the rant.

@JoshGolus

5 жыл бұрын

Totally agree. Kaidan's incarnation in ME 3 totally reversed my neutral opinion on him. It was genuinely good, especially when he cooks Shepard a steak dinner in Citadel.

@redbee2956

5 жыл бұрын

I usually go with Kaiden either way his powers are more useful Altho his weird turn into distrusting Shepard as much as he does in 2 and 3 To me atleast made no sense in his character he acts alot more like Ashley and its really weird

@nastasiakoshkadze8478

4 жыл бұрын

@@KevinJDildonik Ashley wasn't the space racist. Maybe slightly in the beginning but she went through the process of growth throughout the series and that makes her great character

@ryanc5572

4 жыл бұрын

@@KevinJDildonik Ashley also grows out of that as the games progress, showing her character development.

With the Indoctrination theory I wouldn't of used the game theory vid. Instead the three videos from Tyler Hansen are much better and far greater in depth taking the entire ending scene by scene

@MistahJay7

4 жыл бұрын

Clevernoob did the best

A lot of assumptions that I think aren't true and some pretty weak statements regarding what the perception of the ending is and how the DLC made it more understandable. A lot of us always understood what the intent of the Catalyst was, beyond the "yo dawg" meme. Personally I 'got it' as soon as I played Extended Cut, that the Catalyst itself represented the singularity it spoke of as a created being that was solving the problem of created beings causing genocide, and solidfying the theme that there's an inherent tension between organics and machines that exists on a fundamental level, unless they were equal. ...Here's the problem: This is not what the story was leading up to. While there's a case to be made with EDI and the Geth, with or without peace on Rannoch, as discussion-points with a large emphasis throughout ME3, it doesn't feel like an "aha" moment when you reach the ending and boil everything down to how we should resolve the "larger" conflict (larger than Reapers killing everything) as being about the inunderstanding between organics and synthetics. Leviathan only makes it worse. The ending is an idea that sprung very late in development from scrambling as to what to do, and by clinging on it continually after it got criticized BioWare only derailed everything further. It's a non-sequitur and the DLCs that touch upon it only keep everything side-tracked. There's many other good points made, including the fact that ME3 by and large is a conclusion and not just its ending, or that it's a good thing that it didn't end on a boss-fight. I do have to add though, that I think Harbinger was an afterthought since the direction had seemed to change, depicting the Reapers, from the start, as husks to foreshadow the idea that they're all puppets (hence they almost never speak in the game) and the mention of Harbinger at the end was a nod to your save-import. They planned for Illusive Man to turn into a monster like Saren at the end, but scrapped that because Casey felt it was forced, and rightfully so (not to mention it's a repeat of Mass Effect 1).

@liamw6295

4 жыл бұрын

100% agree. The whole synthetics rising up against organics was just one of the many different themes and narrative of the entire trilogy. I would have much rather they kept the origin/purpose of the reapers and the cycle as a mystery. When we first met sovereign he/it said the reapers are beyond our comprehension and we couldn't fathom their existence... should have kept it that way. I think the main theme (if there was one) of the series was about control and the choices we make. The series big selling point was about player choice. As commander Shepard we had a choice for every decision and a lot centered around control or free will. The illusive man and ceberus had a huge role to play in ME2 and ME3. Illusive man was all about control. He wanted to control everything and didnt care about the ethical methods. He couldn't even let Shapard die, he wanted to play god controlling someone's life and death. The big choice at the end of ME2 was between destroying the collector base or keep it to control and harness the technology (A choice which I thought should have had a bigger impact) We had the choice if we wanted to control the Krogans by not curing the genophage; do we allow this violent species to over populate and threaten other species, or do we attempt to control their existence by keeping the genophage? The geth did not want to be controlled anymore and turning against their masters. Do we take control of their destiny by destroying them or allow them to be free and to forge their own destiny? I see a big theme regarding control and because the series is about choice, I wouldn't be against the idea of still choosing whether to destroy or control the reapers. I dont need to know their origin as it has been clearly established their existence is beyond our comprehension. Instead of trying to comprehend the reapers, the finals scenes should have fleshed out the illusive mans motivation a bit more. They should have made his arguments a bit more compelling so the decision to control or destroy could be a tough call to make.

@linkenski

3 жыл бұрын

@Vileblood Heiress oh *nnuoooou." and I still would. Idk. That was probably years ago, and I feel less strongly about it now. However I do think anyone who says the ending is fine, is wrong. It's fine if you like it for whatever personal reasons you have, but I think if you really understand what the problem with it is mechanically to story writing, you HAVE to recognize that it simply doesn't work as an ending to this story. There's ideas, concepts and especially audiovisual execution within it that had something about it, but the writing really fails in the way it is presented. The arguments in it don't work, the themes are forced and alienated by the plot of the actual game, and the conclusion fails to bring in all bricks on the board to be active and thus it fails to drive home the message of the series. Much like the boring goodbye scenes on Earth they put everyone on the side to focus on the wrong thing, whether it's humanity, the dread of warfare or organics and synthetics rather than unity through diversity or heroism and friendship. I do think Extended Cut fixes some of it, but it fails to me because the way it remembers the themes of the actual story is by adding it next to, and after the weak climax. So it's still a very passive piece of writing in the story. You don't get to see all the people in the epilogue slides win this together with Shepard and his help, you just see them nod and comment that "yay Shepard made us win" and the whole final scenario is poorly paced, plotted and suddenly laser focuses on "Organics vs Synthetics" to be the message of the series when it shouldn't do that. That isn't what endings are for but Casey Hudson clearly believed that this had been a story about the incompatibility between organics and their created... But by and large it was not. It came up as a subset of the idea of unity through diversity, and we united or failed to unity the Geth with their creators earlier as a perspective on that idea, not to enforce the ending's abrupt message of "ORGANICS AND SYNTHETICS CAN NEVER GET ALONG. YOU MUST MAKE MAGICAL CHOICE!!" it just, plain and simple, does not work. So whether you're gonna ignore everything to bring up some off handed insult I made 4 years ago and not admit you engage with Smudboy yourself, or read and probably understand why the ending missed the point, it's up to you, lol.

@linkenski

3 жыл бұрын

@Vileblood Heiress I think the fact that you can tell who he is shows that you've watched his content.

thank you so much for having subtitles

Great video. I just replayed the trilogy with Legendary Edition and while I always thought the ending was fine, the Leviathan DLC definitely adds a lot more to the experience. I feel like the explanation of the purpose of the Reapers is actually really good and thematically fits. It also fits with the Sovereign conversation from ME1 (that being, organics would not understand why Reapers are doing what they do, and the reaction to the ending with the "yo dawg" meme honestly just proves it).

I never felt that the game was bad. But when you know how much was cut and what the game could have been you just feel like what you got is barely anything. And I really wish we got something like in mass effect 2 ending but with fleets that you pick wich fleet attacks what position etc. It would be great. Especially for me. Becouse I'm in love with military strategy.

I hated me3 for a very long time because of the ending, but after recently replaying it, ive come to realize that fighting and dying alongside the characters you've come to trust as family meant more to me than actually killing giant space spiders

You made me realize why I love this series so much. I started with this game and used Javik as my main squadmate. This made me love the series even more and I clearly was part of the few new players who preordered the game and experienced him.

Definately not a drop of quality in writing, just a drop in consistency. Imagine a world where Bioware didnt get swallowed up by EA, not only them but Visceral too, at least Bioware can still turn it around, byy looks of some art work for the new game, they look to be returning to the milkyway. Hope they make the necessary changes to gameplay in mass effect LE and not just texture upgrades

13:59 If you're not willing to fact check, maybe doing a critique is a bit bold.

Mordin Solus = More Than Soul-less!

15:17 "I'm amazed that BioWare resisted the temptation to have the queen as the final boss fight with Reaper infused corgis" I may disagree with a few things he said but God this made me laugh!🤣

Love your long form vids! Keep it up 😀😀

The Game Theory part made me smile, thanks!

From Ashes wasn´t on disc. You had to download 600 MB to play it. The only thing on the disc was a placeholder character model and a combat voice lines. Other than that, thanks for the great video.

In reference to your point at 17:47 - There is a dialog point, on Mars if memory serves, where if you select the initial paragon or renegade you miss out on one and that is probably what caused the greyed out dialog at the end.

I love your videos man. I can tell so much time is put into them

The Indoctrination Theory isn’t the real ending. It’s a comforting headcanon. One that helps me enjoy the conclusion.

@LoganLS0

4 жыл бұрын

It makes more sense because everything after Shepard gets lasered plays like a dream sequence. But all it practically does is erase the ending without replacing it with anything else.

Hold up a minute, was Chris playing as a Vanguard but sniping throughout the whole game? Wha

@ianaruto1

2 жыл бұрын

I finished the game on high difficulty as a vanguard recently and i was so fragile that i gave up and sat in cover with a rifle too. Also doesnt help that even if you can jump in and kill enemies you cant predict if another wave will spawn and where, and since you are out of position they can just burst you down.

@jimijenkins2548

Жыл бұрын

@@ianaruto1 Biotic slam. You're welcome.

AWWWW SHEEEIIIITTT back at it again with the hours-long reviews! _Strap in folks_

@bigmclargehuge8219

5 жыл бұрын

Whoa hey, it's you. Your videos are the best!

@MattZelda

5 жыл бұрын

Take notes bunny boi. This how you do reviews.

I like that you talked about the Trolley Problem with autonomous vehicles. It's such an interesting topic when it comes to AI ethics and even ethics in general engineering practices.

The one who trained his whole career, the one who was the reapers last stand, their greatest general. He was their first and last line of defense. His name, was Marauder Shields. F to pay respects for the courage and determination of this man. Rest in peace, We will always remember you.

The core premise of the ending, if taken literally, makes no sense. A merciless, hyper advanced race just hands you the keys to the universe, after you've effectively lost, magic macguffin or no. If the catalyst/crucible really were such a big deal, the reapers would have just trashed it, instead of making a convenient pathway straight into it. The only way the last 15 minutes makes sense, is if it's in Shepard's head as he's bleeding out somewhere on earth

@mortymerre

3 жыл бұрын

I know i come late but i must answer u on that Once the reapers control the citadel the only way to open the arms it's from inside, opening them will give ships cover, places to repair and refuel and, most importantly, it will activate de "Intelligence" (AKA Starchild or whatever...), harbringer, who has in charge of keeping the citadel, and like a bunch of hundred reapers (Sovereinclass) more leaves as soon as he realises that shepard wanted to use the disposal beam to infiltrate and as the citadel is in lock down and it cannot be damaged (or at least not destroyed, since they need it to serve as a portal for other cycles), leaving the citadel unprotected, then hackett when all in with all troops converging on the crucible. I must point out that the "real" crucible is like 1/2 of the whole device, since we can see it has protective shields and armor that dispose when it lands, probs to protect it from predicted incoming fire. Also as we know, the reapers may not want to shoot the crucible, or at least if they do, the will not point at the hot spots, since the explosion could be overwhelming for their shields, since it has a reaper heart (the one cerberus recover from the ME2 ending) and a lot of eezo inside, even Starchild points out that it's not other thing that a power source. So, overall, and taking the point that humans dont have any type of standar space warfare tactics nor estrategy (yet?), we could say hacket played good there. The indoctrination theory was always "sloppy". If shepard is indoctrinated, The protean pc on thessia would detect an indoctrinated force and would have entered in lockdown mode, and it does not. Also from that point and until u find the Illusive man, u are not even near reaper technology and u even destroy two on earth just hours ago (The hadex cannon just after the landing and the destroyer class guarding the beam with the tactics). Even if he was injured by that harbringer beam, why would them indoctrinate him at that point? without him in the citadel and with the illusive man taking care of anderson, the cycle will be doomed. As a remarkable subject of the Humankind, he would probably go straight to disposal in order to integrate his dna, memories and experience in a newborn reaper (Since the reapers had targeted humans to make the new reaper and the rest of the species to be shock troops (Kroga-marauder, Asari-Banshee, ded humans-husks).

Another great vid. Thanks for the time and effort.

Man, your choice of using the theme as background music during the video had me basically crying the whole video. Thank you.

Man I love this game, the music is incredible the character moments are great and i see it as a fine ending to one of my favorite game trilogies. Also the Mordin moment gets me every time.

Just an editing thing: I can't believe you let Leaving Earth loop the entire video. It makes the whole video feel needlessly heavy and sad and also a bit lazy even.

Just stumbled on this video while searching for news regarding the Legendary Edition. While I probably liked ME2 more than Chris did, I know I liked ME3 w/Extended Cut more than most. I tried several mods that attempted to come up with a better ending, I always find myself going back to the extended cut. Keep it up, Chris!

Great video, one of my favorite game series for me

One of the major points I disagree is regarding Leviathan DLC. There is a huge difference if you're a first time player with all DLC or if you finished the game and bought the DLC as it was released - 6 months after the initial game. I do like the DLC and it is a great treasure hunt and I remember the anxiousnes when climbing into that Triton-mech. But then came the lore-dump, and all it did was reinforce the ending. After months of people telling Bioware that they did not like the ending, that some of it made no sense the way it was presented, that some of the ending broke the entire story, they gave us Leviathan. The forerunner of the reapers saying "some people say it aint so, but it do." I made a 3rd run through the game then, playing Leviathan as soon as it unlocked. I tried to run all information and content till the end through that lense, trying to ignore what I knew would come. ...and then I met the "starchild" and he gave me the same lore-dump as he did before, and it came with the same "aren't you surprised and shocked now" scene as without the DLC. So is the point of it trying to surprise us again? Because the big reveal has already been delivered 20hours earlier... Why present that same Information again? Or is it to tell players, that had finished the game already, to calm down? Given how the ending is still a sore point to many, I am pretty sure, it was meant for that reason. I argue, that Leviathan is not essential DLC for playing before the end, only after. That is its target audience.

What a great channel, you are mature, insightful, and you truly seem to care about stories. Love your stuff

i loved the first two mass effect games they were amazing and really fun and all of the characters also i played all of the dlc for mass effect 2 and technically after you destroyed the collector base you see the reapers awakening from dark space and were heading to milky way.

The part was the single most memorable part of the entire series. Absolutely loved all the character moments. Especially when all the "tough guy" companions were just waving there guns around hiding behind the couch. Grunt being the door man was good too.

On a side note of The Illusive Man acting out of character by using Reaper tech to augment himself, was because he was indoctrinated all along. The comics revealed it happened shortly after the First Contact War, his eyes? Reaper tech

Neither the extendet cut nor the leviathan DLC change the fact that ME loses its narrative coherence with the BioWare ending.#1 #2 Apart from that, your argument may be true when Mass Effect was still a concept and not a published game series. But BioWare has done something with this trilogy that very few else have managed.They have told arguably the most epic story ever told in a video game and built their hero into a believable super-sized hero. Without becoming cheesy or cringy. As a result, players identified with the game, the universe, the characters, and most importantly, their Shepard, both emotively and intellectually. In a way, they made the story BioWare created their own. This, of course, resulted in a certain level of expectation. An ending, of whatever kind and form, should have taken that into account. I for example had the expectation that I would get an ending like part 2, only even bigger, more epic and with even more severe decisions. After all, this time not only the fate of my crew but that of the entire galaxy was in my hands. And I expected that in the end I myself would decide about life and death of my Shepard. What I certainly didn't expect was to be trolled by BioWare at the end. #3 Besides, only an ending that develops / derives organically from the story is a good ending. Which means that the very hypothetical conflict you describe may be interesting premise for Another ME game. But the ending of ME3 is not the place where that conflict belongs. #1 kzread.info/dash/bejne/aYGgw9axfLOTqNY.html #2 www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/r66bk/if_bioware_wrote_lord_of_the_rings_instead/ #3 www.deviantart.com/ghostfire/art/Mass-Effect-3-Reactions-non-spoilery-289766222 Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Great critique Chris thank you for your time!

The paragon/renagade choices with the illusive man are hidden behind the dialogue options on the left side. Its every time you have a personal chat with him at mars, thessia, and the Cerberus hq and the last 3 at the very end. You can pick any combination of red/blue options but you can't miss any of them if you want the final option. I missed them on my first playthough too.

been waiting on this since your first mass effect vid

I don’t understand why everyone would always prefer a happy ending. Sometimes it’s nice but doesn’t usually feel visceral or real

A minor point, but the reapers were harvesting memories too. The on-ship dialogue re Javik being able to read stuff about Grunt after the fact is almost certainly indirect exposition to support that this aspect of the harvesting/Reaper creation process is very much real, that such a kind of thing is real in the Mass Effect universe.

I wonder what your thoughts are on the recent reveal for another mass effect.... And Liara finding Shepard's Armor.

People seem to think that the Reapers came back every 50,000 years, which is not true. The Reapers came back once the galaxy had reached a point at which they were developing sentient AI, the 50,000 year estimate is just the average time it takes to reach that point. The Quarians developed the Geth and Sovereign saw this and tried to send a signal to the other Reapers through the Citadel. But since the Citadel had been sabotaged by the Protheans this didn't work, and so Sovereign had to figure out a way to activate the Citadel manually. Sovereign was actively monitoring the galaxy for signs that it was ready for harvesting, if they were just waiting a set amount of time between invasions they wouldn't have needed the Citadel to send a signal to wake them up.

I don't think I've ever been as disappointed with anything in a video game like I was with the Mass Effect 3 ending.

@breadchips4803

5 жыл бұрын

Maggai I only just played the whole trilogy last year and I suddenly got hit with the disappointment of Andromeda without even having played it.

@kallmannkallmann

5 жыл бұрын

Then u havent played meny games

@riley8385

5 жыл бұрын

​@Adam Thompson Ah yes, the cognitive dissonance of the hashtag gamer. Gets mad at EA for ruining games with their greed and lazyness, while also hoping that company X is closed down for making a few games they didn't like. Can you blame them for being lazy and care only about money with a consumer base like you?

@1:15:50 To this point specifically (that every game always played out this way): I think the reason that people forgave/ignored the lack of ending choices in previous Mass Effect games was because they were promised that it was coming. It was always a lingering promise that by the END of the trilogy your decisions would mean something. And for most people that END was a real, tangible effect on the actual ending of the third game. When people view a trilogy, they're not viewing it as separate pieces, but an entire coherent whole piece. That's why people were mad that the endings were effectively the same thing.

Great video Chris! Thank you :)

Another great video annnnnnnnd I am installing ME1 again. Time the trilogy replay :D

The ending is important to a story to make it feel like it has a point. It's the final part of a work you engage with, and in a story heavy work like Mass Effect, it was always going to fall under the most scrutiny, especially given how it was advertised(Lots of diversity to what occurs, not just an A, B, or C ending, which are direct quotes), and the fact that Choice was one of the ME universes defining features from the get go. That said, your start is a bit of a cop out. The Extended Cut was not the ending people were pissed about, and most of us left once that came out, as it was good enough. It wasn't great, and there's a reason most of us didn't buy EA games again for a long time, and probably why Bioware is now teetering on the brink after Anthem's...rocky launch. Mind, one part of the Extended Cut's ending is why I will not be buying any EA product at full price ever again(Used, or deep sales for me). That's the ways you can trigger the refusal ending. 2 are good, wait around long enough, or just tell the kid to get bent. The third one however, is such a...well a middle finger to the community. Most people showed disdain for the Star Child by shooting at him, it was amusing, and harmless. Now that get's the refuse ending. It's such a dick move, that I no longer trust them to write good stories, and since this point they've done Dragon Age: Inquisition(Another story sold without an ending), and Mass Effect: Andromeda(You have a long review on this channel that talks at length about that, so no need to go into it here)

@Johnny-ux7yi

4 жыл бұрын

i do agree for the most part. while the refusal ending should have been left out but it was admirable that Bioware addressed the complaints regarding the lack of closure about Earth, your squadmates, the state of the galaxy etc.

@SageofStars

4 жыл бұрын

@@Johnny-ux7yi To be fair, I still think there should have been more variance in the visuals. They did a bit in the audio, but really only had about two dozen or so 'animated comic panels' to go with it. They looked good, but they were less varied than I would have liked. And I'm not saying the Refusal Ending itself was bad, though I would have preferred a, we can win this, sort of ending if you had a super high score in the assets. No my problem was the activation by shooting the Star Child. That was a deliberate choice someone made, probably to show those they considered a-holes online a thing, when they tried to shoot it, and it gives them a bad ending because of it. There is no doubt in my mind that's why shooting it starts that ending, especially given the framing of the Refusal ending itself as a failure of sorts regardless of your actions in game. It shows a level of pettiness I did not expect from a major studio, especially one trying to 'win back' the crowd of fans, and failing to do so, if the numbers are any indication for Andromeda's sales. They damaged their own franchise, even if it was for corporate reasons, and then made fun of those who called them on it, damaging it farther by showing a contempt for your fandom.

@Johnny-ux7yi

4 жыл бұрын

SageofStars i think the refusal ending can be seen in two ways. Either as a 1) fuck you from Bioware or 2) an indication that Bioware were not given enough resources by EA to expand upon it in regards of cutscenes, level design and potential boss fight against Harbinger. It also shows from the epilogues having a slideshow than CGI cutscenes. Now if Bioware are indeed gonna remaster the Mass Effect trilogy then i hope they will expand the Refusal ending based from EMS, turn the slideshows into cgi cutscenes and have Shepard wake up from the rubble and reunite with the crew and kiss his/her romantic partner as Das Malefitz by Faunts swells uo.

@SageofStars

4 жыл бұрын

@carruthers100 I disagree with that a lot. Mind, I said Bioware was on the brink, not EA. EA sells a diverse range of garbage, and some of their audience will always choose to buy their stuff regardless of quality, though even that appears to have changed in recent years. Regardless, I have little doubt this ending, and the marketing, had a decidedly negative effect of sales of Mass Effect: Andromeda and Anthem when they came out, with only Dragon Age: Inquisition being a 'success', and that due to it having a completely different fanbase in a lot of ways, than Mass Effect's own, despite seemingly similar premises. That said, we'll have to wait and see. I'm doubting BIoware can pull out of the nosedive their in, but you never really know.

@17:40 The 3 chats with the Illusive Man to trigger the option are Mars, Temple and Cerberus Ship. All 3 require you to follow the "investigate" option for extra chat options. If you miss even one then it is "Renegade Interrupt or Die" at the end. The Mars one is the most common for me to forget. Can't remember if they all have to be the same (all Paragon or all Renegade) or if they just all have to be chosen. @24:30 Many of the items that you can't go back for can be purchased through the Spectre Console to prevent you missing out. Also these side missions are mainly there to add War Assets rather than credits and have an effect on the end cutscenes. If you want the only slightly hidden arguably "best" ending you have to do a lot of these (plus either do the earlier games and import or spend quite some effort on "Galaxy at War") @29:00 You missed "Galaxy at War" here entirely. You don't have to even touch multiplayer to get your War Asset multiplier up. It takes longer, but just go to the N7 website each day (or more) during your playthrough and, assuming you aren't speedrunning the entire trilogy in one go, you'll have plenty of time to activate the five little timed missions that boost your multiplier. I started it when starting with ME1 and had the multiplier to 95% not long after starting ME3.

Well I know what I'm watching when I get home from work.

Thank you for not making feel alone for loving Mass Effect 3

@hansenlung

5 жыл бұрын

I also love ME3

Almost 2 hours of my boi Chris Davis? Don't mind if I do

@granite_planet

5 жыл бұрын

Hadn't noticed the length and thought this was going to be like, a regular length analysis... and @ 1:36 he said to skip FORTY mins ahead and I finally look down and boom it's a two hour video o_o I mean I gotta clear a whole evening for this in my calendar :D But it is Chris Davis so it just might be worth it.

I think the Leviathan DLC belonged in the original game material of ME3. It deals with much of the critique of the AI element of the story and is a truly revelatory moment that belongs in the finale and gives it weight and context. It boggles the mind that something so integral to the story is in a DLC that many will never play.

really like your review style mate keep up the good work! I dont think mass effects ending was bad my self mabey this is because i came into the game late and had all the dlc open to me from the get go. would you have any intrest in doing a look at War for the overworld the spiritual sequel to the Dungeon keeper series

lol I swore I wouldn't watch the whole thing. But, I 100% with the game being about the journey, not just the destination. I've legit played through the series 20+ times and even as I try to make a lot of the same choices, small deviations in certain points at certain times always change the way I feel. GOAT game series.

Also i feel like this game felt rushed beyond hell and there was barely any side quests which sucks because what happened to all of the side quests where were all of the RPG elements from the first two games also multiplayer was completely and utterly pointless why did mass effect needed multiplayer answer it didn't need it whats so ever.

@futuoinvictus7669

5 жыл бұрын

Multiplayer has replaced religion as the opiate of the masses

@kolbyduke1356

5 жыл бұрын

You okpj

@TevyaSmolka

5 жыл бұрын

@@kolbyduke1356 i am okay :)

I think this is my favorite of your Critiques

You missed the bit where Thane helps you fight Kai Lang, suffering a major injury killing him along with the disease. Great video!

A year later and people in the comments still whining about the ending instead of seeing the whole third game as the ending.

Oof. I love my Kaidan but that joke on him vs AI intelligence still make me laugh.

25:40 To be fair, there was a post credit scene in ME2 showing the Reapers activating in dark space, implying the invasion is imminent.

A little question regarding sniperrifles, with how the games does not really set up situations for long range shooting as sniperrifels are ussually used on, I was wondering if it would have been better, if they where made to be similar to close quarter "sniperrifels" like the Delisle rifel? Well a mass effect version of that weapon. :-)

Acknowledges Liara as having the strongest bond with Shepard. Doesn't choose her as a romance option.

The Leviathan DLC was honestly the most important piece of the story told. It also debunks indoctrination theory as a few of the key points (such as the Rachni link) were a product of the Leviathan race exerting control. Its honestly a shame it was never part of the full game at release since it provides context to the ending alongside the extended cut.

Chris pls, it’s 3AM and I need sleep

Excellent and well done video Chris, can really tell you put a lot of work into it and it shows, top notch :) I agree with a lot of your points, still very much hate the star child, and would have prefered a familiar face to better swallow the ending. Something like Kaiden or Ashley or better top dog Saren to take its place, with the reapers maybe downloading a version of Sarens consciousness and have him spliced with Harbinger, the two fighting for control while speaking to you. Also would have liked all your party members to stand with you at the end, feels like they would have just as much insight and questions to what choice you would/should make, just like in all the other games and important moments. I also really like the paragon and renegade system, I think it's one of the key systems that makes Mass Effect so memorable, no it’s not perfect, but it is very different and makes most of the conversation a ton of fun, an just removing it like they did for andromeda just made that game extra boring. Still my favorite sci-fi world and some of the best characters in video games.

I find it funny people Bosch Mass Effect 3 is ending for your choices not mattering in the long run. Not to say that's not true of course. But think about this how many choices that you made in Mass Effect 1 really made much of a difference at all in Mass Effect 2? It was never anything but the illusion of choice with minor variations possible at best. Sadly this isn't D&D and pen and paper. There you can shape the world pretty much in any way you see fit. This is the modern game industry you have to factor in time budget man hours release dates shareholders oversight you name it. To make a proper game that would need to reflect your choices in the best way possible you would likely have a development cycle longer than Duke Nukem Forever. Let me put it bluntly here. Nothing you do in the first installment of a Trilogy of video games is ever going to radically alter the course of where the third game in the series goes. To think otherwise at this point in time is just wishful thinking and frankly your kind of fooling yourselves and setting ourselves up for disappointment on top of it. And let me be clear as an addendum. I'm not defending the ending of Mass Effect 3 even with everything I've just said I thought it felt rushed and sloppy. I could think of worse ways for the franchise to end or at least the trilogy though not many of them.

@weberman173

3 жыл бұрын

@Char Aznable 1 year late but, thats the problem, there is no way to conventionaly Win against the reaper at the point in time when the races start to unite at least not in this cycle, it took a good part of the Human and Citadel fleet to defeat a SINGLE sovereign class reaper in ME1(and even then it only died becasue it was weakend by saren who he was controlling being destroyed)(granted the geth fleet was there) it required up to i think 3!!!! precision orbital bombardmets using almost the entire Quarian migrant fleet to destroy a SMALL reaper on Rannoch,(kandros being able to destroy the same type on tuchanka was weird), yes we see reapers being shreeded at the end of ME3 using conventional weaponry, but thats using the combined force of several fleets to destroy individual reapers, loosing dozens of ships and life in the process. there is no way to convetional ywin against the reapers in this cycle, there is simply not enough manpower, ships, or material to defeat them conventionaly in this cycle ONE thing possible would be, to destroy at least 2 reapers per cycle, as only 1 is born at the end of each cycle acording to the game itself meaning you would have to play a game of atricion against them for hundreds of Cycles(i doubt its only 1 per cycle tho becuase of the sheer number of reapers we see and the human reaper larva in ME2)

@weberman173

3 жыл бұрын

@Char Aznable actualy, no, the Thannix does NOT make you "able to Punch trough a reaper" it significantly increases The damage output of fighters and frigates to the point they can rival a Cruiser in firepower(and yes scaled up versions for dreadnoughts are in circulation) tho, so it would "even the odds" a little, also IN LORE its already in widespread use of the alliance fleet, and beyond that, in ME3, and we evne use thannix misssiles(based on a similiar principle most likely) to take out the Reaper on earth, and it took a direct hit into the weakpoint for it to actualy kill the reaper im curios where do you get that the Thannix can punch trough the kinetic barriers and hull of a reaper? yes its based on Reaper tech(more preciesly the sovereign main cannon) but we never see it used against a reaper directly to any significant effect as far as i remmeber(at least confirmed thannix cannon) it is stated that it can "pierce any known shield and armor" any KNOWN is the keyword, for all intent and purpose,the reaper can be considerd "not known" Furthermore, that statement is already false, as i would bet everything i own that it cant pierce the barrier surounding a Mass effect relay. because that would be overkill

I agree with some of your points and not others. The underlying concept of the reapers' motivation was fine in theory, but very poorly executed. The extended cut *helps* with some of the glaring issues with that execution, but not with all of them. In particular, the ending fails to present more than one ending that (on the face of it) most Shephards would recognize as 'victory'. Controlling the reapers has been *repeatedly* called out as a bad idea that is literally only being promoted by people *indoctrinated by the reapers* and there is no reason to believe that this ending is different just because a magic AI has told us so (in fact, there appear to be very good reasons to question anything the AI tells us). Synthesis is inadequately fleshed out, poorly foreshadowed, and (at least on the face of it) kind of horrifying, in that it assumes we're ok with forcibly rewriting the genetic makeup of every creature in the galaxy without their consent. It also doesn't *really* address how this is supposed to help the issue, because it doesn't explain what 'part synthetic' means. Does it just mean turning everyone into organics with synthetic augmentations, like Shepherd? that's the implication based on the (flimsy) explanation we get, but what does that solve? Why would such beings be any less likely to create AI in the future? The attraction of synthetics (and ultimately AI) is that it can make the lives of organics easier by tackling tasks too laborious, dull, and/or complex for sentient beings (with finite lifespans, biological urges, and a general desire to do things other than perform a static utility function) and that still exists in that case. Maybe synthesis means something else, but it's really vague and unclear how it's supposed to actually address the core problem in the long term, and (as you discuss) depending on your playthrough, you can *solve* the short term problems with any synthetic other than the reapers (who are *already* a hybrid of synthetic and organic). The only ending that has *ever* made sense to me is the destroy ending...but that ending *also* happens to force a truly paragon shepherd (who saved the geth) to commit genocide (again, on the say-so of a being they really should not trust). Refuse is also a sensible option (and one which really should have been a viable option, given the general themes of the game, not least of which being how many times Shepard *does* get away with telling beings of apparently unimaginable power where to stuff it) but that's not a real ending, so...it doesn't really count. In terms of the ending being thematically inconsistent, your arguments aren't really convincing. Sure, they're arguments for how the ending *could* be justified within the framework given, and I'd agree with you (as noted above) that this motivation for the reapers *could* have worked in the right game and series. The problem is that the trilogy *never* spends significant effort developing a theme of AI being inherently and unsolveably dangerous. The Geth in the first game are 'heretics.' The true geth never actually rebelled, let the Quarians live, and never actually wanted to nor tried to wipe out organics. Peace *can* be brokered with the Geth, even if there are always concerns that it might not last (no peace is guaranteed to last). Much of the Quarian/Geth conflict segment of the last game is dedicated to showing you that the geth really *are not* the bad guys here, and - more than that - they are, (as Shephard can note at one point) "alive". They have "souls". And after legion sacrifices himself, they develop individual identities. And then, of course, there's EDI, who you might *start out* being suspicious of, but who never so much as hints at betraying you, even though she has the means and (arguably, if AI is inherently destructive) the motive...and who, *again* develops across the series by developing individuality and even potentially entering a romance with Joker. She is, for all intents and purposes, a person. If anything, the theme (and the message) across the trilogy is one of *hope and understanding* towards synthetics. Yes, they're very different to any other species we encounter. Unlike the Turians, Quarians, Asari, etc, they are *truly* alien, in a way that makes them difficult to comprehend, and yes, easy to fear. But ultimately, we can learn (again, as paragon Shephard, which as you've noted throughout these videos is by far the more consistent version of the character, and almost certainly the canonical version) that they're just a different form of life that we can learn to understand, befriend, and incorporate into galactic society, not something utterly alien and inimical to organic life. You do note that Renegade Shephard doesn't see the Geth as people...but the evidence is there regardless of playthrough, particularly in Legion and in the Geth consciousness section. So frankly, this just comes of as being another episode of "renegade shephard is unecessarily dickish" (and/or stupid - there's no tactical benefit to wiping out the Geth, and a great deal of tactical benefit to making peace and obtaining the support of both races). Basically, if Bioware had wanted the games to develop a theme that accorded with the ending, and with the choices offered by the star-child, they could have done that...but they didn't. They actually went in the complete opposite direction, and *that*, IMO, is why the ending feels like a complete 180. You can certainly rationalize the reapers' perspective on AI and synthetics, but it's all based on what we're *told* about the lore and the history of the galaxy, not what we've been shown and experienced by playing the game. The DLC really comes across as post-facto rationalization for something they realized too late they'd forgotten to properly develop across the series, and again, it's mostly done in the form of exposition. And also, again, I will note that one of my biggest peeves with the ending is how Shepard surrenders their agency to the star-child. There is absolutely no reason to trust this being. It is quite literally *the* enemy you have been fighting throughout the trilogy, and it very obviously has goals and motivations that do not align with your own. Yet Shepard *must* accept the 3 options it gives him, without so much as putting up a real fight. If anything, THAT is a much worse tonal disconnect with the rest of the games, because I cannot think of any other situation in the game where Shepard is told by a third party to accept an intolerable situation (I guess working for Cerberus in ME2 comes close? but at least you can ultimately tell them go F*** themselves at the end of the game.) and then just meekly accepts it and does what he's told.

@Maverickib

3 жыл бұрын

Hit the nail on the head. While the ending in general is out of Shepard's character, the theory that the Catalyst is lying to an extent is reinforced by it choosing a child as its avatar. It has been in enough indoctrinated minds to know we associate children with honesty and obvious intent. We don't expect or assume children to be attempting deception like we often do with adults. If there were no nefarious motivations behind the Reapers, it would just take the form of another Reaper or be formless. The only choice the Catalyst attempts to dissuade you from is Destroy. It doesn't say anything to convince you not to pick control, and it encourages you to pick Synthesis. It is the ultimate 180 of Shepard's character to tell the Reapers they're wrong and to fuck off for 3 games only to go, "Yeah, you right," and pick Synthesis. The only ending that vaguely maintains Shepard's defiant nature and unwillingness to compromise with an enemy who has exterminated hundreds of thousands of civilizations is Destroy.

@zorpthezork6733

2 жыл бұрын

Adding to what the comment immediately preceding mine states, the fact that Reapers are manipulating Shepard to trust them by their choice of child avatar is reinforced when choosing the refuse ending or simply shooting the avatar after you are given the ability to move Shepard once again the avatar's voice receives a stark change to Harbinger's/Sovereign's deep, mechanical booming. Yet, I fail to agree with the initial reply and OP's original comment on the underlying fact that the Reapers are in anyway lying to Shepard, the reason for this would simply be Author's Intention. With the platform literally raising Shepard up to a bright light and the main character's name literally being "Shepard" for 3 games, it is clear (as Chris Davis points out) that the writer's were going for a God-like interaction and player ultimately deciding the fate of the galaxy upon learning the motivation of the "Grand Puppet Master" or whatever (think about either the end of the Truman Show or Bloodborne's trophy for "raising Humanity to it's next childhood" for similar concepts). What I mean to say that the trustworthiness of the Reaper's avatar at the end is immaterial and not likely considered in any great detail by the original writers. Instead, it seems as if the writers' intention was to be more of a "laying out all the cards on the table, no more secrets, now you make the choice" kind of scenario. I do agree with OP counter-points to Chris Davis on the thematic and tonal inconsistencies in the ending. The most salient point being that the continual conflict between synthetics and organics being relegated to a background motif for the series then abruptly brought to the forefront in the final moments. This point is distinctly jarring for two reasons. One being that the literal title of the series is "Mass Effect", now being a more casual fan of the series than most, I still don't really know what mass effect really is, and in no way does this make me think of an eventual terminus to a synthetic/organic paradigm. Now this point has way more depth, going into the original concept for the Dark Energy ending and its continual echoes within the previous games, how the Reapers were always described as the bridge between organic and synthetic life, and how it renders the motivations of the Collectors in Mass Effect 2 almost completely moot. The second point is that the conclusion on Rannoch, as Chris Davis also states, does not inherently prove the Reapers wrong, yet the writers' in the end seem to cherry-pick this story as the more damning plot-point over its immediate counter-part in the same game, that being the plot with the Genophage. The writers' choose a plot of synthetic life driving organic life into extinction, when there is an example in the very same game about organic life doing the same to other organic life. What this shows is that the theme is inconsistent and is arbitrarily selected by the game's writers. Or put another way, if the Reaper's logic is to harvest advanced organic life to preserve it from inevitable extinction at the hands of the synthetic life it will create, what is their solution to preserve organic life from extinction at the hands of other organic life? To my knowledge, there is no answer to that question, which shows a deep flaw in their logic, which can be attributed to the author revealing their hand. Going back to my initial point about Author's intention, with the ending we were given it can be viewed in such a way that BioWare and the Audience entered into a final discussion about the events that had occurred in the past 100 or so hours of playtime of the whole series. The Reaper's avatar acts as the writers' justification to the events that the player has been put through and experienced, then immediately putting forward the question to the Audience "was it worth it?". It's jarring, slightly arrogant and I think, based on the community reaction afterwards, the resounding answer was "no, it was not". The underlying message of resolving conflict by companionship cannot even be completely defended by the synthesis ending since there will continue to be the conflict between the all the races, whether organic or not, that is completely inevitable, especially when expanded out on a long enough timeline. Essentially, the justification given in the "meeting God" scene does not even completely address the entirety of the main conflict of the whole series, making it lack-luster and come across as ingenuine. In my view, the most salient ending to the series is unfortunately the rejection ending, which is the most clear choice given for "no, I do not agree with your reason, your logic is based on a flawed premise". Two personal statements at the end here since I just finished the series for the 5th time, and hot out the emotion oven. I find the Liara romance to be the most canonical, since she is the only one who you can romance in all 3 games (Liar of the Shadow Broker in 2). I find it personally touching when I compare it to my own real-world wife, and if I had to say goodbye to her and the future we could have together to go and be told that the reason for this forced extinction now was to prevent an extinction later, my only reaction would "what the actual f**k is wrong with you, that is the most completely ridiculous logic I have ever heard, I understand it, but its clearly wrong". Finally, one last point about the untrustworthiness of the avatar being a moot point is that in its "dissuasion" from the destroy ending it states that all technology will be destroyed, that "few will survive the blast and fewer still will survive the days to come". Now maybe my galactic readiness was too low which triggered the God-child to say this line so please correct me if I am wrong, but, to my knowledge the cutscene to follow the destroy ending does not have all the ships destroyed, and in fact, the Normandy is repaired and flies away in the final moments. Now I attribute to stupidity what I cannot attribute to malice, is it likely the Reapers were lying to me in order to persuade me not to choose the destroy ending? Maybe. Is it more likely that the writing team may have been divorced from one another without ample time for editing each other's scripts since the community reaction immediately following the initial release put pressure on the whole development team to create, integrate, and release an extended cut ending that would satisfy those were we most detracted from the series? I don't know

@Maverickib

2 жыл бұрын

@@zorpthezork6733 A lot of good stuff here. Touching on the small question you asked about the star child's verbage. It does change based on your galactic readiness. Kinda another reason why I believe Destroy is canon, as it has 3 different forms of its ending. Theres the "bad" destroy ending wherein the kid says itll destroy all tech, and the clips show even organics being killed in the blast. Then theres the "okay" destroy ending wherein it specifically only kills synthetics and the relays, no organics or ships are seen being destroyed. Finally, the "good" destroy end requiring basically maximum readiness is the same as the "okay" end but adds Shepard surviving at the end.

@zorpthezork6733

2 жыл бұрын

@@Maverickib Damn, then that makes me dumber than a dummy, but I'm going to leave that in there so people can laugh at my stupidity forever

@Zidana123

2 жыл бұрын

@@zorpthezork6733 "now being a more casual fan of the series than most, I still don't really know what mass effect really is" you know what it is though you might not know the name it's the thing that happens when you run current through eezo and it makes a field that alters local mass all of the spacefaring technology in ME is based on it

BTW the way I hear (as I only ever played it after new ending with all dlc's like you) the the final push scene was actually better originally because they didn't have the cutscene interrupt in the middle of it. The fact that the dialogue choice was gimped also helps me believe this

This is such an excellent video, man.

Shout out to the Discord bois

@afroarchitect2446

5 жыл бұрын

What up squad

The ending was bad, but it wasn't THAT bad. It doesn't ruin the whole trilogy, at least not for me. But then, I never expected a really great ending after playing through that much content. I knew they would drop the ball on something. For me, ME3 is an amazing game all the way up to literally the last 10 minutes, and the Citadel DLC was an excellent send off.

@linkenski

5 жыл бұрын

It ruins the trilogy's story to me but it doesn't ruin it if I exclude ME3 mentally and go back to 1 and 2.

@FatalFist

4 жыл бұрын

It ruined it

@Camelotsmoon

4 жыл бұрын

Same here. If I could purposefully forget up to just before the beam run, then I would just be in awe of how great the series is; I would just think the weakest part of the game would be act 3, AND NOT THE TRILOGY ENDING, ENDING.

@Johnny-ux7yi

4 жыл бұрын

agreed. while i am a believer that endings are always important in any story but the journey all the way to the ending was remarkable. as for the ''ending'', thank god i played the Extended Cut and all the DLCs on my first playthrough and it did make the difference. it wasn't perfect but it did enough to make the story feel complete.

I got around the cover system by just carrying a pistol. It gave me such a boost in Biotic recharge time that I could Shockwave to clear a wave, Warp Strike (or whatever it's called) to someone, Nova blast to get rid of shields, charge into someone with biotics to regain shields , immediately Nova again, regain shields, etc.

There is no adequate defense for the ending. A good ending would have involved major decisions made along the way (this is non-negotiable, implicit in the design and in the marketing of the game) the presence and influence of our squadmates and relationships, and no deus ex machina to save the day. It would have involved a true investigation and reward uncovering secrets of our enemy. It would have made us feel like we accomplished our victory or earned our defeat and not left either in the hands of the deus ex machina. Compromise on this is settling for less than we paid for.