The video of the singer’s larynx was very telling - you could physically *see* the constriction and closing

@joaquimcevallosmorales8944

4 жыл бұрын

Precisely!! And how chords were never properly shut, leading to airy sound, impaired power and tone. Even more, you see how vibrato is not happening IN the chords but in all the constriction around them. This may be tricky and some will disagree, but when chords vibrate freely and throat is open, vibrato goes wild. It is a function you can't control - if you do so, most likely it will be through constriction. Well, at least that's how I feel my voice works - when it does.

@jcee6886

3 жыл бұрын

@@joaquimcevallosmorales8944 is there a sensation you feel when you get full cord closure?

@joaquimcevallosmorales8944

3 жыл бұрын

@@jcee6886 to be honest, who knows! The physics behind it are blurry, but there is definitely some air going through to make the sound - but obviously the minimal possible. With regards to sensations, absolutely I feel when free vibrato happens and I am throatless. No videolaryngoscopy with that, unfortunately!

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

3 жыл бұрын

@@jcee6886 There is. But i do not want to say. The goal is not to try to close the cords. But to go for the right sounds and let your body do the work. If you strengthen the registers. Have good chest voice development and falsetto development you will get good adduction of cords. We should never try to manipulate body parts to do that. It comes from freedom and efficiency as well. There are a number of holistic actions that create a desirable result.

@Empoweredwoman1234

3 жыл бұрын

@@joaquimcevallosmorales8944 GeneralRadames is right. I just want to add that before my medical condition took over my voice creating a bumpy tremor that I can't control, I used to have some freedom. This represented itself via a strange acoustical and physical phenomena that's hard to explain and I'm not sure exactly what was going on in my technique at the time. When I would practice, I felt no physical sensation in my throat at all, like the throat did not even exist and there was just sound. In fact, it was like the sound did not come from my mouth, but rather, it came from the low ceiling in the room but slightly forward, not in the face or nose. The sound would sort of travel downwards in a sort of mushroom sound. I cannot say whether the sounds were enough to carry in a theater, but it sure beats what I've got right now. Please note that this is just my subjective personal experience, and may not apply to all. However I just thought I'd give my humble thoughts, as I have to teach myself because of my condition. Good luck.

Thanks so much for this channel! Please keep going!

Ms. Horne was certainly the QUEEN of gargling!!!

@samueljaramillo4221

2 ай бұрын

Respect. It’s called singing.

OH MY GOSH!!! I REMEMBER my High School choir director teaching me this exact same exercise, back in the early 70's! (He was a student of Vennard.) Even back then, I couldn't understand the point of it, especially since i had virtually NO falsetto to speak of! However, in later years i "discovered" the "mixed head voice", which extended my upper range extensively, but not in a good way! Now, at age 66 i am seeing how much of what i learned was wrong, and not at all helpful! Wish i could turn the clock back 50 years!

Mister Opera, General Radames and AfroPoli must make a team in order to advance the cause of good singing VS the hideous stuff we have nowadays. Maybe some common videos? A common channel? Some conferences? A lobby? haha I don't know! But I do know that they need to have their say in our sad operatic world that is today...

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

Lol. Afro Poli actually inspired me to do these types of videos. And I have inspired Mister Opera. I think it is good that we educate ourselves. I have always had the drive to want to know more and understand why. People need to have this. You can critic someone and still enjoy what they have to offer. It can make you a better singer, teacher and listener. Yes. I think more dialogue is the key. Thank you.

@jaybee2838

5 жыл бұрын

@@RadamesAida2Operalovers Hello my dearest General. Just checking on you hoping all is ok... And asking for more videos! hehe

@richiesol20

2 жыл бұрын

@@EmilyGloeggler7984 why not Mister Opera and TiO? i just wanna ask🤗

@artdanks4846

2 жыл бұрын

​@@richiesol20 "Mister Opera" and "This is Opera" (whom I believe to be one in the same person) teach and demonstrate the correct "old school" method of singing, as does General Radames. However, their manner is much different. The other two channels both used methods of communication that in my opinion were very negative, and even downright rude! This rudeness, I felt, only hindered the cause of what they were trying to accomplish! However, General Radames I find is just very factual and to the point, without the rude and harsh attacks on other singers and teachers! This is a much preferred approach, and probably way more productive. And definitely more appreciated!

General Radames...do you still take new students via Skype? How do I get in touch with you for more info?

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

Just email me on radamesaida2@gmail.com

He taught Horne! Lol. We know how she turned out.

Please Like and Subscribe. Press on the Bell icon for further future videos.

At its best, the ‘mask’ sensation can be associated with the presence of the ‘singers formant’ in the sound. But, it is a result, not a cause. As with any use of ‘placement’ as a teaching tool, it can be useful, up to a point, for some, while for others, it’s like handing them a bag of flour and showing them a picture of a cake.

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

I think it has nothing to do with singers formant. Masky sound gets in the way of the formants. The singers formant you refer to is operatic ring. It is created by chest function. The resonance is the result of function or initial vibration. You can clearly see in the third Ah example that the laryngeal bodies come over the larynx muffling the sound by covering this area. Creating a covered muffled sound. It is like singing into the cupped palm of your hands. The pharyngeal passage should be open like the first examples of each vowel.That space should be open and unimpeded. It is clearly an undesirable concept. Remember resonance in singing is a column of air. The column is being smothered at the most important place. The laryngo pharynx. From memory the first and 2nd formants are the most important. The first occurs in the larynx and the 2nd in the laryngo pharynx. I cannot see how placement is useful at all. It is completely useless and misleading. People cannot make a decent vowel sound because they think they have to make a place or a sensation instead of making a vowel i.e. shaped tone. They cannot go for a sound they go for a feeling or position. We make sounds and the body reacts to create it. We do not go for position or feeling and the body makes the sound. That is why knowing the right sound is paramount.The only placement of the voice should be in the pharynx. This is truly understood when you actually do it. If people know one way they cannot fathom any other way. I know it is hard for people to realise this. Especially in a world where mask singing is predominant.

@mikeobrien1559

5 жыл бұрын

Please note, I said 'mask' SENSATION, and I described it as a result, not as a cause. I agree, placement is almost entirely worthless (except in times of absolute desperation, when one must resort to extraordinary measures in order to avoid having to euthanize the poor student). I've had a number of students who have killed their 'ring' as the sensation of it made them worry they were singing 'nasal'. Once I explained to them what was going on, and more importantly, played them a recording of what they were actually sounding like (or, closer to it), they were fine with it.

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your feedback. I understood what you said . I just wanted to elaborate on things, because I was noticing people were misinterpreting things. For me personally there is no focus, no awareness of any sensations there. I know they are there because I have good proprioceptive awareness. The amount of sensations if any sensation are there are minimal or negligible. They are irrelevant to singing. Singing is primarily about the function, the alrynx. The resonance just happens. Even though you can tune the voice more at a developed stage. Singing is within this pharyngeal larynx area. I create my vowel, sound and focus there. Essentially I am playing my instrument. I know it is contrary to most teachers advice. "Never singing in the throat", Keep the sound up or forward". "Do not feel anything in the throat". I know them all. These are compensations actions for dealing with constriction people do not know how to remove. So they reduce the chest participation of the voice by making the sound lighter or headier. Because they think this is free sound. Instead of getting the student to release the sound with the full voice. Singing in the throat is hard to do when there are constrictions and inhibitions and want of understanding. That is why a student will not understand this until they develop more and notice the changes towards these feelings. Thank you for your feed back.

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

I do not know where you get your information from Coughman. If you want to say something is scientific, provide the evidence? Twang is a modern term relating to pop music. Corelli, Del Monaco etc as far as I know did not use Twang. The ring they produced is a result of chest function. You would have to provide some clear evidence to convince me?The problem with science and observing function is. If the person they are observing is not a great quality voice then they can be observing faults and come to the wrong conclusion. So the science on certain aspects of the voice is dependent on the volunteer. I have seen many video explanations on voice , based on the most basic sounding, undeveloped voices.

Although this is very helpful, I'm actually a little scared right now... maybe I've played one too many horror video games!

Mask singing causes poor diction and squeezed high notes.

Good grief! A "MAN"inyn Horne! On another note, is there a video of how the vocal cords work when singing correctly without the mask?

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

The first examples of each vowel the girl sings is close to that. The EE vowel is fine. When she speaks it is fine. There is no impeding of the pharyngeal passage. It is definitely clear on the third Ah vowel. The one I repeated.

@jaybee2838

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@Songbirdstress

5 жыл бұрын

@@RadamesAida2Operalovers I remember when I first met the mask technique, I thought it was extra resonance, not instead of. It's not logical, we have a natural loudspeaker 📢, the mouth, why wouldn't you use it? It's like saying get a phonograph and disconnect the cone and put in a little teensy one.

Lo que el Sr. William Vennard quiere hacer es lo que dice el refranero español: "Empezar la casa por el tejado".

im laugh watch this video.my brain think singing in miss v..wkkwkwkkkwk

So, what is the evidence? Vocal cords closes differently. And?

@jaybee2838

5 жыл бұрын

It means it all is in the throat. Nothing in the mask or sinuses or whatever

@BernardaBobro

5 жыл бұрын

Dissagree :-) You are talking about two things: sound production (sure: happens in Larynx-throat) and resonance-do not happen in Larynx but in Pharynx (cavities in a head). And the resonance (amplification of a sound ) is the problem in singing. Vocal cords are not the amplifier (just tiny muscle),the bones are.And there is big difference, where you put the air,after it cames through the vocal cords. Thats why human voice is capable of so many different sounds (tight, open,breathy, ful,metalic, vocal fry, twang ....). Your example is nice in a way, to see how vocal cords vibrate in different way. It would be cool,if we could se, what happens with the air after that.

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

Please watch my videos as I instructed. You didn't follow the instructions. It is explained. Click on the Playlist. Then comment. kzread.info/head/PLegXiifkkTxYs_emctmh9Ngfd5rB4ZlBV The first video will refute what you said.

@BernardaBobro

5 жыл бұрын

I can not open the link. 🙁

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/head/PLegXiifkkTxYs_emctmh9Ngfd5rB4ZlBV

The problem I am having with this is twofold , Marilyn sings beautifully AND Marilyn was able to preserve her voice. Is it at all possible that there is a way to sing in the mask that's good even under your standards? At the end of the day, I think beauty of timbre and longevity are the marks of good vocal technique and I can't seem to reconcile your contention that it is bad while we hear top tier singers with incredible timbre and intonation AND longevity.

@deadwalke9588

5 жыл бұрын

She never sung beautifully though and the voice was too constricted, too riddled with vocal problems that denied her of truly singing to her greatest potential.

@BernardaBobro

5 жыл бұрын

They are more then one component making ones carriere long or short: proper repertoire, vocal and general health, good management etc. What I'm trying to say: not just "proper technique" is the reason for a long carriere. The thing with technique is that people think in terms black-white.Right-wrong. Singing doesn't work like that. It work's in terms "more or less efficient".Which means: you can sing all your life constricted,nasal, small....and it won't kill you. But the other question is: how would it sound if the voice was free ? Horne made some recordings as a soprano.Her sound there is completely different.I think it is interesting to look both sides of her voice.I personaly prefer her natural voice (soprano).

Saying that Vennard used a 'mask' resonance from the 'evidences' you compiled, is manifestly false. Using the falsetto, a lowered larynx and all the other Bel Canto principles clearly is the antithesis of the 'modern' 'put it in the masque' madness out there.... or I am missing your point in this video. Horne's singing and her teaching are not one and the same. Or, she changed her technique after studying in LA with Vennard. But 'putting it in the masque'? Don't see one iota of it in this one video. The previous examples? Yes.

It always amazed me that idiotic critics and conductors epitomized Marilyn Horne as the "ideal voice". Her voice had a nasty white nasality that ads nothing to the beauty of a piece of music nor to its interpretation. It's no wonder that opera is in a state of total disrepair and dysfunction. Who wants to pay the exorbitant prices of modern opera houses for bad singing, not to mention terrible production, staging, and costuming. Pathetic.

No offence, but basically more confusion and unclear circular explanations with a video that does not show or explain anything in any clear way. We see how the throat works, but no difference is perceptible or demonstrable. Watching this video does not allow one to understand anything or change their singing. Not informative.

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

1. It demonstrates all resonant singing (except nasal) occurs ONLY within the vocal tract. 2. Throaty singing which is associated with "singing in the throat" is not throaty because it is "in the throat". Because all singing is in the throat. Therefore throaty singing is due to something else. And I am connecting it to some form of constriction. 3. Mask/forward type singing is not in these areas of the face. It is still occuring in the vocal tract. The sounds that qualify this are related to manipulations and constrictions of the vocal mechanism and vocal tract. 4. It is very clear in the video when the singer makes a masky covered type sound there is a perceptible change in the physicality of the vocal tract and mechanism. You can clearly see at the end that the epiglottis covers the pathway of the vocal tract. When the singer speaks and sings clearly the vocal tract is open and visible. I cannot see how the video could be any more clearer? Mask singing is an aural choice. It is chosen because people think it is better for singing. I have demonstrated it is a muffled sound. It takes away from the clarity of the sound. The beginning of the video clearly states to watch my previous videos on the playlist provided which supports this video. I have provided evidence from famous pedagogues in previous videos which you have obviously not seen. I do not think this is circular reasoning. I cannot believe you do not hear or see any perceptible differences?

@luisgarcia-ls2gs

4 жыл бұрын

I totall agree with your point of view

Hahaha...do a few more he says...to destroy your voice

@BernardaBobro

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly opposite way arround.Sing with high larynx, like modern opera singers do and you are vocaly dead in 2-5 years.

So. The video is very instructive/interesting. But the view on vocal folds.. Singing is wrong for opera. More like a theatre singing. For opera they stay open. The opera singer here is great. The teacher crap

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

Both singer and teacher are not good. The singer is masky and thin and unattractive. Because he tries to put this sound within a narrow confined sound he is limiting his vocal potential. These are not good singing examples. This is one of the reasons why the Opera industry is at its lowest level. Where are the great singers? Pavarottis? Del Monacos, Corellis? Di Stefanos? There are none.

@TonioFerritto

5 жыл бұрын

@@RadamesAida2Operalovers Agree. Though i meant the female singer. Mask is always wrong in opera and also more a concept of musicals.. Where they always sing in mask. Ugly metallic sound. Completely agree with the singers... Most lacking power. I might want to add Mario Lanza who was amazing as well. There are though some good promising ones... ... But give me some time... 3..5 years to get there :)

As far as I can understand Mr. Vennard is something of an eyewasher... How not to sing tenor.

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

I do not like his teaching. I do like is book. His book discusses many views on singing not just his own. He promotes this masky technique I do not like. But, saying that. You can always learn from anyone if you keep an objective, open mind. If I do not agree with people I have to find valid objective reason to do so. That is why I prefer any sort of discussion rather than no discussion. Opera will only survive and get better if we share and discuss. We have to explore what are good objective reasonable actions in the art form and what are subjective useless actions that do not contribute to making things better. There is a vocal potential. We should work together to find it.

@HammondDER

5 жыл бұрын

@@RadamesAida2Operalovers Agreed!

@RadamesAida2Operalovers

5 жыл бұрын

You can listen to some of his lesson on KZread. This channel has posted them. It is interesting to note that Vennard has this strong speaking voice and a disappointing singing one. kzread.info/dash/bejne/n46Kqrqxj9XNnqg.html