Growing up in a mining town in 1984 where thousands of police (and army in police uniforms) were drafted in from around the UK and given carte blanche to beat up anything that moved, I can only relate that it felt like CIVIL WAR, I think this was a personal battle that caused massive suffering and I fully understand the animosity still felt 30 years on

@joecole4208

3 жыл бұрын

I don't. I just had a British liberal tell me that England no longer uses coal. They get all their energy from wind and solar. Seems like liberals have shut down the rest of your mines.

People forget how much crazy power unions had. My dad always tells the story: while visiting liverpool he helped an older man offload a barrel off the back of a truck. A union official saw it, shouted "non union member working" and shut down the entire docks for a day. Also the mines were SUBSIDISED by the state, they had no future and were not viable as private enterprises. For the economically literate its the equivalent of paying people to dig and fill holes.

@teknix314

Ай бұрын

Never mind energy security ey?

Fair comment KB but lets not forget,almost 30 years after Thatcher's Pit Closure Programme began, whether environmentally unfriendly or not, we still generate more than 40% of our electricity from coal (Govs preliminary report for 2012). That coal has to come from somewhere. Coal imports to UK 1970 zero, coal imports to UK 2011, 33 million tonnes from, mainly, Russia,Columbia and USA.

If the industry was a waste of time,a white elephant,whatever,and it was a necessary thing to close it down full stop (I and many other firmly believe otherwise) but if it was,then a proper structured,rundown over a given time period,taking into account the nature of the facts that whole communities where centred around these sole sources of household and fiscal income,which once gone-then what? The fact was the Tories down in London could not really have given a damn.

With the death of Sir Jimmy and now Magaret Thatcher its been a great 12 months for miners! :)

@doubledekercouch

3 жыл бұрын

I nearly pissed myself laughing, that was great

The 1960s Wilson gov green-lighted dieselification of the railways when other countries converted to coal-generated electricity, thus losing the miners their biggest single customer. People forget about that.

@coldwar45

4 жыл бұрын

Tudur Morgan In addition Wilson closed more pits than Thatcher did

@Keithbarber

3 жыл бұрын

British rail modernisation plan was published in the 1950s. Long before Wilson was in power

And for those thinking about trades unions getting above themselves,subverting the political processes,when our leader should be leading,bullshit! Think about how huge business and big corporations get their own way by buying ministers,cash for questions,tabling motions all in the interests of greed and rampant profit of a few like minded parasites.Hence your huge utilities and petrol costs,and more.Profit is by no means a dirty word,rampant greed however is two of them.

Big mistake getting rid of Britain's heavy industry.

So you want me to be clear on my facts? How about a quote from today's Telegraph: "Furthermore, while six out of 10 employees in the private sector receive no pension contribution from their employer at all, 85pc of public sector employees have not only a pension, but a gold-plated one."

The same differences which divided the miners in 1984 were the same ones which drove a wedge in 1926,esp in Nott's where the breakaway Spencer union was formed and the MFGB was split.George Spencer the Broxtowe MP agreed with the coalowners at the time to not strike,or to take part in any forms of industrial action in the future,it was called a gaffers union.then came the NUM/UDM split all those years later in the same area.Coincidental? No,

Creepy, atrocious woman.

Many of them weren't born, that's true, but many of their communities have never recovered, leaving the kids to feel no asspiration or hope for the future. I work in Fife's old coalfield district, and I can tell you the parents are not the reason many of the teens dislike Thatcher (to use a mild term), but that they have no choice now but to move hundreds of miles away to have any career/life, something in itself that is less likely as her reforms of banking led to the nightmare we're in now

Coal per GJ produced here was good coal for purpose,and cheap by foreign standards,also home produced energy,Maggie did not care about any of this.I do think Arthur Scargill buoyed by the Saltley victory in years previous,possibly saw another in quick time.The Tories really changed everything fundamentally to make sure they had not one chance of winning.By going totally nuclear if need be for power generation.

You say the miners were well paid and received redundancy payment, but that wasn't the case before the unions - and some people think this strike was really about getting back to poor pay and working conditions. I suppose some of the striking miners were thinking about others,

And you're an American which makes you about as loved in the world as this woman was here . We may well be losers but that doesn't make us wrong .

“The tyrant is a child of Pride Who drinks from his sickening cup Recklessness and vanity, Until from his high crest headlong He plummets to the dust of hope.” ― Sophocles, Oedipus Rex

Private industry has to dictate what or what is profitable to manufacture or supply. The role of Government is to create the right conditions for business to thrive eg setting corporation tax, employment law etc...If ship building in the UK for example made economic sense then private industry would still be active.

May she rest in peace with her good friend Jimmy Saville

@s.chaubey8098

Жыл бұрын

😁😁😁

@user-hp2ku8fi3e

2 ай бұрын

@@s.chaubey8098 Idiot !

Aye in hell 6 hrs and has closed 3 furnaces!!!

I remember Thatcher, and Heath. Both leave a bad taste in my mouth. I eventually lrft the UK for good.

It wasn't just the miners...others like textile workers who got nothing.My husband and myself both were forced to go on strike we had no money for months. We had power cuts, food shortages...etc . She took the unions on and got the country back on its feet. Everything was nationised under Labour they controled everything like communists.keeping down wages etc.. MrsThatcher changed all that people could start their own buisness and buy their own houses. Which I did....

The Soviet agent Wilson closed twice as many coal mines. Coal mining should have been phased out during the 1960s.

Your point about being held to ransom on energy needs is valid bit irrelevent. This does not make the decision to end dependency on coal wrong just makes the lack of investment in nuclear power as negligent.

You make some good points,and I do not attempt to shout you down,remember though each branch of the NUM in the various areas had local area agreements,which meant that whatever was laid down at national level,did not neccessarily hold any quarter at the local one.Thus,some expected balloting to take place and others not.The root causes of 1984 lay deeply embedded in the events of 1926 too.I do tend to think AS expected some kind of victory similar to Saltley years before,and quickly.

Many countries have no benefit system the UK's was meant as a temporary safety net, but many people have chosen it as a way of life. It's long overdue maggie should have sold them all off. They need to strip the benefits away from the long term scroungers. People should not be allowed to claim for more than 5 years.

You might see it differently after some reliable research.

Even without Thatcher, the result would have been the same. British coal was too expensive and inefficient for the global markets.

Seamus Milne wrote a deluded book "The Enemy Within".

@bobmcgahey1280

5 жыл бұрын

great book piss off

2:43 WHAT DOES HE SAY, please???

The benefit system,and all the rest of the postwar Beveridge reforms were there to help vulnerable people,poor and impoverished people to avoid the workhouse,and the tender mercies of the old poor law days when the parish had to fund its own paupers.I can remember when people got by ok on one lowish wage,my father was one such wage earner,things today have altered so much,employment is hard to find,and money goes nowhere at all when are you are fortunate enough to have any.

We shouldn’t talk of a benefit system intended as a safety net without accepting that when it was introduced it was easier for working class people to find gainful employment (even I can remember when a low earner could sustain a home and family on a single wage) Thatcher put millions out of work without offering alternative employment - now Cameron is withdrawing benefits without offering gainful employment. 1700 people applying for 6 jobs in Costa is MT’s legacy.

No mention of Orgreave, perhaps the most significant event during the strike - Shhh

I'm so glad we closed all the mines!

@tommyhassan3545

Жыл бұрын

Your mother wasn’t as she got most of her business from the miners 😂😂😂

I was once a Guardian reading economics undergraduate but thankfully I have grown up.

Margret cared more for her Iron lady image

It seems to me that the coal industry was dying a natural death, but was taking the rest of the nation's economy with it. Breaking up the unions had to be done sooner or later. Imagine what kind of state our country would be in today if we were still flogging that unviable industry? I don't blame her for that, but coupled with the war in Ireland and her lack of tact, I can easily understand why she's so hated. At least she had *some* principles.

As said Scargill did not call a democratic vote.That's dirty tricks.Although I did'nt agree with everything she did,she got the respect back of this country abroad and back on the world stage again,which did help to bring prosperity back to this country.The mines would have closed anyway,what with green issues coming to the fore,but maybe more could have been done to bring opportunities to these mining areas.It does you no service to still bear a grudge.

The nationalised industries that were failing would certainly have included British Leyland & the steel industry. Other nationalised industries like BT were simply inefficient, bureaucratic & not serving the public adequately . My understanding is that most coal mines at the time were profitable or at least potentially profitable but I'm sure the decision to close most mines was political - a natural decision as energy needs were being jeopardised by union militancy and continual strikes.

It'll be interesting to see how Ukip will split the 3 party vote on the 2nd of may elections.

So you are choosing to ignore any other economic index other than growth of GDP? GDP can be easily stimulated by Government expenditure which was something Labour were very keen on in the 1970s - so much so that Dennis Healey, the then Chancellor, had to go cap in hand to the IMF for a bail out. You also choose to ignore the hyper inflation of the 1970s, "The Winter of Discontent", the decline of inward investment into the UK, taxation running in the high 90%s.

The trouble with the unions was the fact there was not a level playing field,what applies to one should apply to all,no individual rules for one set of men in one area to another,no exceptions.rule 41 was the achilles heel here.The union I belong to is a little the same,negotiations for one set of workers,and negotiations for another,based on two differing rulebooks.Stuff like this does not foster unity,never has.Such organisations are beset with rules.Many divisive and stupid ones.

Thats true that, Thatcher dies and suddenly we got the whole country kicking up, yet when it all came out bout Saville hardly anyone said anything, it was like people were scared to say anything about that subject. Has he had his knighthood stripped yet cus they really should take it from him.

best PM ever. I wish she was back in office today

@tombailey837

2 жыл бұрын

How very sad

britain was being run by the unions, not the government. i worked when the unions were in power. because of the unions i wasnt alowed to turn on anything electrical. only an electrician could do that. i didnt work for 3 days while at my workplace because there was no electrician to turn on a socket plug. the coal mines were also polluting norway causing their farmlands crops to die.

This is why thatcher banned unions. Because it gave power to the working classes. Without unions, there tories will always win

You wouldn't, for example,irreversibly close an oil rig just because oil is cheaper, in the short term, in the middle east. In the case of energy we really shouldn't have burned our bridges in such a way just to wrestle power away from Scargill and the N.U.M. and avenge the Tory defeats of the 70s. Like I say, too high a price

Those too for sure but Europe was the really divisive issue in the Tory party at that time, as it has been ever since.

She was a divisive,confrontational,foul woman who brought the working people of this country a lot of untold misery by her arrogance,misrule,egotism and hypocrisy.No one I know of has any reason to lament her passing,in fact it is just the opposite,she showed no care,compassion or consideration for others less fortunate,now those self same people are glad to see her lid nailed on.Hope she gets her just reward in the next world if there is one to come.

The UK economy through the 1980s and to date is far stronger than the "sick man of Europe" mess of the 1970s. The defeat of militant unionism including threats of General strikes, which would have relied heavily on NUM support, is one of the largest contributary factors to this.

Great stuff, so why not reinvest the money from pit closures in northern towns and create profitable jobs? Instead of leaving them to rot!!!

At least she didn't freeze their accounts!

So glad mining is history.

witch whose system failed in 2008

it is not true, you have labour code and Employment act to protect you, you can start your own business, you can work on your better education, you can go and travel to have experiences, you can volunteer in asia, you can do lots of things...you have to adapt like everybody, you are not the only one to think, life is full of changes...makes it not boring.

Apparently the police are arresting trolls for leaving horrible remarks on the facebook pages of the recently bereaved. Good job Thatcher hasn't got a facebook page, that's all I can say;

Our benefit system was and has been a fine safety net for many,as it was intended.Sadly the inscrutible in society will always find ways to abuse matters,and this applies to all things,not everyone who claims is a scrounger-fact.There are no bigger scroungers than the middle classes on a good screw,claiming working tax credits and child allowance when they patently do not need it.Scroungers are to be found in all walks of life.The few,not the many.

In Nottinghamshire wages were higher and geological conditions better,they wanted a ballot.To understand 1984 you have to look back to 1926,the answers lie here.

The subsidy of energy needs if necessary are paramount. If nuclear power required subsidy then that's perfectly legitimate as all all other industries depend on continual affordable energy. There ihas clearly been an under investment in nuclear power as renewables are not yet effective and coal, irrespective of whether mines should have been closed would have been a environmentally unfriendly and declining resource.

Judge a person by their friends. Jimmy Savile, Rupert Murdoch, General Pinochet. Nuff said.

She was more iron than lady,and only iron with the people who she never ought to have been.The only prosperity a country has is in its workers,not in a nation of dole claimants and "made redundants" like she created.

The only sad thing about her death is I never had the chance to be the reason

ohh god i amm crying ---------------tears of joy

Labour has also been fond of growing the public sector to ridiculous levels relative to private sector. Given that a minority of public sector workers are nurses and teachers that leaves a whole heap of pen pushing council skivers with bloated pensions all being funded by a hard pressed private sector. History is repeating itself today. labour spend spend & spend again and the Tories have to pick up the pieces i.e. reduce debt by reducing the size of the public sector.Here endeth the lesson.

The Devil is having a hard time right now, she's shutting down all the furnaces

well I got seven healthy children and I reckon god had a big part in making my children healthy why are you so negative why are you so frightened of god you should be worried about the people in power they only think about themselves where god is there to help you put your trust in him my friend god be with you

And you really think coal would be cheaper......... my lord!

Looks like more rain tomorrow.

Your point re coal being imported just emphasises the point that closure of the mines was political. That said, I think it was almost certainly the right decision. The energy needs of a country can't be held to ransom by militant unions.

Glorified labourers whose greed was their own downfall and no one else's , Maggie sorted you out

@41tim

7 жыл бұрын

stuart ahmed lol

@41tim

7 жыл бұрын

stuart ahmed lol

@41tim

7 жыл бұрын

stuart ahmed lol

that old commis is to blame he should have worked with the goverment, and fro the miners not his own glory or not as it turned out. the old unions acted like little despots shameful

Money apparently does grow on trees if you are a banker. Half a billion quid a year compared to a trillion quid bail out. I'd let the banks collapse and all those people with more than 35 grand should have lost everything. Don't think many working class people have more than 35 grand in the bank. Capitalism for the poor - socialism for the rich.

Neither side imposing their will to the detriment of the greater good makes sense, but tempers and a blinkered view seem to triumph over realising the value of the team, anyway, I realise this is a controversial analysis, as it's not about taking sides other than the side of logic and specific analysis of specific situations. Two sentence one-size-fits-all analysis of a whole landscape by Scargill or Thatcher is much much more fun,......whatever,.... carry on

Yes unfortunately. His bumbling ex wife looked a fool the other day on Daybreak!

Scargill with his tail between his legs. Loved the memories.

@Philrc

3 жыл бұрын

arsehole

God Bless Margaret Thatcher.... Cheers from Canada

@Philrc

4 жыл бұрын

get stuffed - cheers from Britian

had nothing to do with economics or environment it was putting the boot in. try living in Easington today and experience the Thatcher legacy of her and subsequent tory policy

scargil was to blame, ful of self importance whilst living like a king the miners struggled on nothing. he lead the miners like the pied piper. he should be remembered as a disgrace and leech having a flat a big pension paid by miners. he was a dictator and vile man

all we've got is 3 parties of conservatism and they wonder why the occupy movement came about. So many people feeling disenfranchised appauled at runaway capatilism. Perhaps Thatchers death will mark then end of "greed is good"?

Thatcher was loved and will be missed, she was the best thing to happen to britan since Churchill

I was a company Director before the age of 30, and have been a Director of three companies including one global company. I have owned my own import company for the last 4 years.

That 'benefit' comment is up for debate. Two wrongs on a particular issue don't make a right.

Do you have a telescope?Try looking through a wider lens.

How did MT bring £75 billion into the UK?

Gone a little quiet. I believe the term is "owned"

and as for religion I reckon you need it pray to god he will be there for you

But you are assuming that the UK ultimately had a choice. Thatcher or no Thatcher the traditional industries of Britain were doomed with the rise of the global economy. Manufacturing commodity based steel products for example given low labour costs were always going to migrate to China and India. Government controlled industries whether subsidised or not never work in free trade environment because they are inefficient and uncompetitive.. Private industry will succeed.

IF THATCHERISM WAS SO GOOD , WHY IS IT HER CLOSEST FRIENDS/ALLIES TURNED ON HER AND BROUGHT HER DOWN. YES THATS RIGHT HER OWN PARTY oh n the coal industry was running at profit on closure. The gov just kept moving the goal post each time a target was hit or passed to try and justify closure

mining is fucking stone age anyway. Well done to her for destroying the trade unions.

Unions should learn from the past and not take the bait. But then again - if the Condems get another term - they'll probably go for the privatization of the health service, the Post Office, the education system and the BBC. Not to mention dismantling the welfare state. So the Unions will have to make a stand like the miners did - or capitulate like the steel workers and shipbuilders

and so the underclass was created...to be used as a pawn for future tories.

In 1982 her government liberated an island full of British people from an evil dictator and they did it again in 1990.

Exactly,not all the people as a whole,but "our" people,the blessed Daily Express,Daily Torygraph,s beleaguered middle classes.About right really,I,ll record that maybe.No council homes ought ever to have been sold,they should have been kept for the reason they were intended,or at the least,the money raised,put into rebuilding more of them.

"anti europe position".... what about the poll tax and the back scene scandal of Mark Thatcher and his £12 mill commission (google) Al Yamamah arms deal

I think a lot of people (like ScientificOasis) don't have the intelligence to understand that without the progress made by Unions and Labour Governments, the working class would be as it was in Victorian times.

I take your point and I'm glad that someone finally has debated this point with me decently. It seems we're not dealing with the normal "chips on shoulders" approach. But the mines were not making money. Simple as. And cruel and calculating union bosses were not doing anything to help the situation. Unions were set up to protect workers. They never ever did anything of the kind.

Incidentally,do you actually have a job,are you part of the world of positive production each and every day of the working week? Or are you another talker,and leaving the action to others better placed to do it?

tell me what good she did ?.

ye she did but at the time she was importing BSE

"The old nationalised industries were failing and being propped up by the taxpayer"....... much like the Nuclear Power industry then, which was touted as the replacement to coal fired electricity, by the Tories??

hey, you don´t understand what are you talking about. no country in the world subsidies non profit industry except communistic.Who on earth would buy British steel (too expensive labour)? Thermal power stations are banned, British labour is too expensive, is miracle you manufacture something currently,really.She made your country as services supplier, heavy industry is the past since oil crisis in 70, don´t you see it?? You are LUCKY to had such brave prime minister!!