In my years before Islam, was never unhappy for more than a day and did not know anger. Islam taught me the religion of manliness, holding grudges, administering money and blood, revenge, retribution, and vengeance. That just leads to resentment, self pity, malevolence, misery sin and death. Went out west and had a long ponder about it, then went out east and turned it around in my mind to sort this rage inside. Recently, it occurred to me that perhaps this was the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that I swallowed.

@nathanfrench5198 As a layperson fascinated with this topic, I am very excited by your research and scholarly approach. And still, my own summation is that "eating" from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil opens up the 'rabbit hole' for humans. This leads us back and forth across a wilderness, which is a type of a waste of spiritual time. It represents a departure from God, not necessarily a disobedience to God, in that we seem to be a given free will to depart if we so desire. Choosing departure, we delay the gifts (love, creation, peace, calm, birthright) He gives to us. I have not read your work yet, Mr. French, however I feel quite called to do so, and I will. What I am hoping to find therein, is that it will lead us back to the choice of God's Will. For it seems to be the only meritorious choice.

@abracadabrascotty

11 ай бұрын

God is our unified version of consciousness... We are God having an experience which is NON unified...in science we call it fractals... During this experience we, God in fractal form, has created a virtual holographic landscape for us to have experiences...bc eternity is a longgggg time, and we need to fill that timeless eternity with something...something entertaining, something educational... And as a part of this education process God, us in unified form, created the concept of BOTH GOOD AND EVIL...why??? Bc this is just a game, a play, a school system, a way to gain knowledge, a way to challenge ourselves, one way of many to spend some of our eternal life... So, we ourselves, from the larger less fractal version of consciousness, chose to create this game...and look how much fun it is... What else did u think we were gonna do with eternity? We broke up eternity into life-times , and each of these life-times have various experiences which hopefully teach us something while we are entertaining ourselves...and THIS experience is teaching us the polarity of good and evil, and the contrasts between these concepts... And btw God, us in unified form, has no gender...bc light has no gender, energy has no gender...only electricity form of us has two genders, male and female polarity...

Growing daily, one learns good and bad. For a youngster, the father provides only good things. (Wicked as you are, you are good to your children). But Adam had to leave this garden of Eden to cling to his wife, to work by the sweat of his brow and keep his family. The first evil is what took Abel by the violence frim his brother.

the sense of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is: you do good you surely die,you do evil you surely die, the sense of Christ is:you do what i do: risen from the dead to the everlasting life.

Hi David. Thank you for the amazing content. I'm just wondering about Dr. French's take on the TKGB, being a test. Given that God is omniscient, and He knows the limitations of His creation,the 1st couple. Would a test be necessary?

@nathanfrench5198

Жыл бұрын

Hello rfnecio. You have asked a very good question. What is clear to me (and other scholars) in the narrative is that there are echoes of themes contained within it from other testing narratives in the Hebrew Bible (e.g., Gen 22 and Job), which are mostly likely evidence of a worldview very similar to that of Deuteronomy and the later texts to follow in the former prophets (historical books). Take as an example the following passage from Deuteronomy: "This entire commandment that I command you today you must diligently observe, so that you may live and increase, and go in and occupy the land that the LORD promised on oath to your ancestors. 2 Remember the long way that the LORD your God has led you these forty years in the wilderness, in order to humble you, testing you to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commandments. 3 He humbled you by letting you hunger, then by feeding you with manna, with which neither you nor your ancestors were acquainted, in order to make you understand that one does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD" (Deut. 8:1-3, NRSV). Just as with the first man and the first woman, so too, with Abraham in Gen 22, and also with Israel in the wilderness, all were tested by Yhwh in order to know whether there would be a show of obedience or not. Scripture does not give an answer as to why God does this, especially in light of divine omniscience, but it does give us stories and texts that verify that it is part of human interactions with the Lord. Though still not an answer to your question, I would contend that the divine test is necessary to the Eden Narrative as a way of showing that הדעת טוב ורע/the knowledge of good and evil is reasonably forbidden, and that a show of obedience by the human couple would have resulted in an invitation to partake of the tree and acquire הדעת טוב ורע. In other words, they could be trusted to have this divine knowledge. Good discussion! I hope this helps. - Dr. French

@rfnecio

Жыл бұрын

@@nathanfrench5198 Hello Dr French. Warmest greetings from the Philippines! Thank you so much for your reply and wonderful insight. I agree with the instances you have sited that clearly illustrates the idea of testing in the Holy Scripture. Abraham test to sacrifice Isaac also comes to mind. Looking at Abraham's narrative as an example in relation to the 2 trees in the garden. When YHWH told Abraham that the number of his descendants will be as many as the stars in the sky and he believed, it was counted to him as righteousness (salvation = tree of life), then later on when He was asked to sacrifice his son, Isaac, he showed his faith by his obedience. An exercise of his knowledge of good and evil, and that is Faith and belief in God, the ultimate and objective "good". However, his example along with those you mentioned are representative of mankind in his fallen state. As progeny of the fallen Adam. I guess the dilemma for me in understanding the testing narrative is, would it have been necessary in Adam's state before he partook of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Since the potential of dispensing "good and evil" was only possible for him after his fall. Before it, he along with eve was in a state of innocence. And more importantly, death was a sure consequence as evidenced by the use of Polypoton in God's warning. Thank you so much for time. Looking forward for your reply. Best regards.

@nathanfrench5198

Жыл бұрын

​@@rfnecio Hello again, rfnecio. Thank you for your reply as well. My apologies for just seeing it now. You have raised some good points here. I would respond by saying that though "the Fall" is deeply important from a Christian reading of the text, it is not necessarily part of the ancient Near Eastern reading. There are other examples that we have from other texts in the ANE that have a similar motif about them, that is, in those stories, humans are tested by a deity that results in the foregoing or acquisition of divine wisdom or even divine life, which is very similar to Gen 2-3. From a Christian perspective, there is a correlation to the testing and temptation of Christ in the wilderness, as many authors before have made connections between the Eden Narrative and those accounts in the Gospels. Furthermore, one could also look to the resisting of sin in the garden of Gethsemane by Christ, as He prays through the temptation not to follow the will of His father. Very similar motifs to Genesis 2-3. It is important to note that the command not to eat from the Tree is given in Gen 2:16-17 and clearly sets up the need for a test, which again, is similar to all for the above, but especially to the children of Israel in the wilderness after they were "saved" in God's acts of salvation in the Exodus. Only then were they tested. In my opinion, it is clear that these later test narratives, if we read in a canonical light, show how the test is being offered again to the covenanted people; a test centered around the keeping of the command. Christ will be the faithful of Israel and humanity to pass the test and provide access to the Tree of Life for humanity. Christ, of course, is not thought to be part of sinful humanity, though He is tested by His Father in similar ways to those past stories in the Hebrew Bible. Great question and great thoughts here, rfnecio!

@rfnecio

Жыл бұрын

@@nathanfrench5198 thank you Dr French. Wonderful insight. A lot to think about for sure. Praying for God's guidance in understanding His precious Word. Thank you again for your work and more power!

@SeanRhoadesChristopher

10 ай бұрын

They ate uncircumcised fruit. A hint that they needed to wait is found in the Torah. It was not to be eaten until the fifth year of fruit bearing according to Torah. Moreover, the two trees are one & two at the same time living in a superposition of each other. You might think of the tree of Knowledge as Adam, and the tree of Life as Eve. Palm trees have pups as a way to see this. The problem was that they where made flawed, and it was God’s will for them to fail. So, Adam (Dirt with a little spirit) and Eve (Life Giver) became one tree in a superposition of two trees planted in the land of Eden outside of the Garden of Eden after the transgression. Adam’s Knowledge of Good and Bad is a relative moral ideology given him by his clueless wife, which we all should know is bad, as good and bad eludes to the Cursing for disobedience and the Blessing for obedience found in Deuteronomy. Christ Jesus is a new, and thankfully a last Adam made of Spirit, with a little dirt. So, the question should be, why would the LORD set Adam up? Because we (Man made in God’s image) must go through the Bad, to understand what good is. Think of a person who has never experienced bad? Such people develop seriously flawed characters, almost 100% of the time. The two trees as one also connects with Wisdom personified in Proverbs chapter 8, where she is a source of life for those who listen and heed her advice, and death to those who ignore her.

כבוד ליהוה🔥 שלומ Glory to our Creator perpetually!!! 😊 Ascribe greatness to our Higher power! The rock, perfect is His work because of His ways are justice. He is the faithful Al, and there is no injustice, righteous and upright is He! Thank you @drcdeane for a great interview and choice of the subject and speaker! Thank you @nathanfrench5198 for this amazing topic of dissertation and your involvement in speaking it on KZread!😊 I was always puzzled by the events around this tree and I was praying for understanding. And I love how you tie all together! Purpose through the character of our Creator as ALL is tied to Him and His glory! הללו את יהוה אמן

So, the knowledge of good and bad/evil is divine: 1. discernment between good and bad/evil; 2. the application of the appropriate reward (blessing) and punishment (curse) as a consequence. The reason this is forbidden is because it has to be in line with God's will. By eating of the tree they did this by relying on their own will which is disastrous, hence death. Am I seeing this right?

@nathanfrench5198 i suppose I've come to think that what the first couple took was the right/privelege to DEFINE or DETERMINE good and evil. Going back to the judges motif of them doing what is right in their own eyes. And what we see today is very similar to that is there anything in the Hebrew that bears out the idea that Adam and Eve sought to become experts or authorities on a subject that only God knows about because he is the one who created it?

It seemed to me, nobody special, that reading the story carefully, is the key to understanding what is being spoken of. "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." To me, that is saying it was NOT a tree that was pleasant to the sight or good for food. (And implies that God had not made it to grow out of the ground.) And, I suggest that if one simply avoids assuming the actual wording is for some reason unimportant (or poor), and bears in mind that knowledge actually does grow in something, which would be in the midst of the garden, since Adam and Eve were clearly conscious beings within which knowledge was surely growing . . then a very different solution to this puzzle can begin to take shape, so to speak. And it seems to me God has very cleverly hidden the solution in plain sight, as the saying goes. I believe He was warning the people not to assume that whatever comes into their minds is trustworthy. Warning them that their imaginations could be very deceptive, that what came into the mind's eye should not be treated as a good indication of what is dependably true. But, one can't see that solution if one takes the images/ideas that pop into the mind's eye when the story begins as if good indications of what is dependably true. .

Its mixing Truth of God with false provided by evil forces, satan or God's enemies. Look at what eve reasoned in the garden, some of it was what God Said and some of that was what the serpent said, she mixed it together, Genesis 3:6. You have to keep God's word accurate and pure.

This is so strange, a P. H. D. My LORD never had one nor His disciples , but one. To study the Word at that level when the answers are in the Bible.

Knowledge is good but Knowledge bring us separate to the presence of God its become evil God said Genesis 1:17 ,you will die Separation from God ,why Because of evil spirit their teacher not God Shows the weakness of man ,dust to dust turn to dust

Long intro lol

Law of Moses= Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil....

@LightSeekers777

5 ай бұрын

Not according to Scripture. Psalm 1, Psalm 119 and Psalm 19 describe God's Laws as if they are the very WORD we are to believe became flesh. If you are following a LAWLESS ONE, it is not of God. Jesus, according to Scripture, never disobeyed God's beautiful Laws....... The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; 8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; 9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, Yea, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned, And in keeping them there is great reward.

@LightSeekers777

5 ай бұрын

The Law of God IS the Law of Moses. He gave it to Moses to speak because the people refused to come. Satan sowed seeds of Disobedience, those are grown into the wrong tree.