Hi Michael… great video! We have found the following: 1) Remember to seal your support (rabbit skin glue for example) as casein gesso and/or paints are not a sealer. 2) A drop or two of oil of cloves and/or vinegar go a long way as a preservative… in fact I have a jar of casein gesso in the fridge which is probably a year old and it still is fine. 3) You can emulsify the casein with a bit of oil… like stand or sun-thickened as a plasticiser for more flexibility… the same vehicle gives your casein colours a wider tonal range approximating oils. 4) The casein formula we found that working well for us was 1 vol of casein + 1 vol of calcium carbonate (calcite, marble dust, etc) + 10% oil as plasticiser + few drops of oil of cloves. This binder is mixed or better said dispersed bit by bit with pigment for casein colours… with titanium white pigment it becomes your gesso and/or white colour. A question… why did you mix it with baking soda?

@eileenjohnston6835

Жыл бұрын

That was my question, too. Why the baking soda? I speculate that it is to neutralize the acidity of the plaster. I will ask my chemist husband ( Ph.D.) if there are commercially available PH strips so that I could test my final product for acid neutrality.

@sergiofernandez-ll9xt

Жыл бұрын

Baking soda for mixing with water. Dried casein is not directly water soluble

Thank you very much! I paint with egg tempra. Preparing panels with rabbit skin glue-based gesso is very tricky and technique-sensitive. I have been looking for an alternative. I will give this a try. Well done video! Clear and understandable!

I like your ideas and the points you've made. Both acrylic and casein are viable binders. Your points are completely valid!

Literally a video for everything... and that's exactly what I wanted to do! Thanks!

Nice video. As a frame restorers I use traditional gesso. But I like to experiment with different gessos. Not to go on the frames, but just so I have that knowledge. Nice to see someone else doing similar. 😊

You said “it’s kinda like cheese” well right you were, you made ricotta albeit a very acidic one. Warm a gallon of whole milk on the stove and add just two tablespoons (not cups)of any acidic acid of your choice , fresh lemon juice works great, and turn off heat letting it completely cool w/o stirring. The curd will separate from the whey and then all you need to do is allow it strain in cheese cloth or a fine colander. Makes a great lasagna or cheese cake but as for your casein I’m wondering if you might buy some store bought ricotta to save time and use that in your receipt? Thanks for your posts, you are a talented young man.

Hey, I don't know if you are still interested in casein gesso, but... I have an old recipe, recipe from a book about technology of oil painting. When it comes to wood it should be glued on both sides (70g of glue per 1l of water it should be heated in a water bath to 40C-60C) so the wood you want to use for your painting should be dried for at lest a year, otherwise it will rot (masonite is ready to use). While gluing the wood its important not to soak up the wood, it should create a thin film between wood and gesso. So the recipe goes: Casein solution 50g of DRIED casein that you prepared 10g of slaked lime This should melt right away and have smooth consistency 1part gypsum/chalk 1part zinc white(never titanium white because it dries very slowly, up to a year) 2parts water 1part casein solution This can be applied on glued wood VERY THINLY (otherwise cracks will form) from left to right, after half hour you can apply second layer from up to down (its important that the first layer is semi-dry, because if its too wet it will mix with second layer if it is to fry it will not connect with second layer) After eight days its ready to be painted on. Other very efficient way of applying gesso(best for canvases) is with a shoe brush! You barley dip the hair in gesso and apply it onto the canvas moving your arm as if you were writing number 8, after whole canvas is covered you gently even it out brushing left to right, and from up to down.

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

4 жыл бұрын

That's awesome! Thank you for spreading the knowledge.

Very cool ,artsy and scientificy 👍🏻as well.

Many thanks! I have been trying to "perfect" rabbit-skin glue gesso, but I will try this to see how casein works for me.

Learn a lot from you dude. You saved me from a lot, a lot, of trial and error.

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you and you're welcome.

Great video. One suggestion. When I make a casein glue base, I dissolve the curds with a teaspoon or two of Borax. The result is a syrup that looks kind of like rubber cement. Other recipes use ammonia, but Borax does the same thing and doesn't smell as bad. This keeps you from having to cook and blend the stuff. A little heat like a few short zaps in the microwave helps, but that's about it. Thanks!

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

9 жыл бұрын

Michael Fraley Borax huh? I read about using that but didn't know what it did. I was also looking at xanthan gum to do the same thing. There is room for improvement here so I'll be sure to try that next. Thanks for the advice.

@gentleman-shutterbug

9 жыл бұрын

Michael Schmitt Just trying to be helpful, not critical. Yeah, Borax (boric acid) breaks down the curds, and, if I'm not mistaken, improves the ph balance a little too. You can use the resulting syrup like a glue, or mix it with pigments and create your own casein paint. Hey - I've had a horrible time trying to formulate a casein gesso. Nothing but a crackly mess. Thanks to you, I know now that I've not been using enough plaster. I appreciate that.

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

9 жыл бұрын

No problem Michael. I took no offence either. I'm actually very appreciative. The internet/youtube should be used for learning and the best way to do that is through communication. I'm glad we can help each other.

I'm curious to know how this ground works with silverpoint. I understand casein gesso produces darker values for silverpoint drawing.

Good info! I'm a chef, and an artist, and was thinking about replacing acrylic paints with natural alternatives, mostly because allergies have increased amongst artist friends, and now I heard other reasons why a casein based gesso and paint could be the solution. Good job, and thanks!

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

2 жыл бұрын

Check out milk paint. It has a nice desaturated finish and a lot of people seem to like it. You just have to worry about be lactose intolerant

Hi Michael..I forgot to sayAll modern day art store acrylic primed canvas or wood panels ...are highly absorbent. This absorbency will suck the oil binder out of any oil paint, causing matte dry areas. The first step here is to apply a SINGLE coat of acrylic varnish..either matte or gloss. If too thick mix 25% water , but not more....for easier brushing. Again..place the support vertically to avoid puddles. Best wishes, Louis

@LP-zz7uz

Ай бұрын

Acryilic varnish before the oil paint? On canvas and wood?

@portervillelouis

Ай бұрын

@@LP-zz7uz h hi I. Yes. We can paint oil paint on acrylic paint but we cannot paint acrylic paint on top of oil paints

Have you tried drying it into a powder for reuse? It is my understanding that making small batches is wise, large batches wasteful but, the product can be dried into a powder and reused as you need it.

Wow. Thanks, brother.

Have you tried using marble dust?

Gracias ! From the University of California, Davis : )

Good work.thanks!

I'd love to give this a try. what would be the cup equivalent for the UK. Also did you get round to writing that sheet in this?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

8 жыл бұрын

+Donna Readman Totally forgot about the paper. I will take the time to gather my notes and get back to you. Just stick to the ratio. I would drop the equivivanlts and just use 0.25 liters instead of a cup.

I rather enjoyed that milk protein video, thank you! I would like to mix my gouache with casein so that after it has dried it will not wash up again when adding a layer. What's you thoughts on this? Could I just add some casein on my palett or do you think some extra binder is necessary to add as well?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

4 жыл бұрын

You'd have to experiment and see. If you just added pigment to this gesso it would just become paint in its own right.

@Thestripper1

4 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft I will for sure. When you say "gesso" do you mean just the casein or do you mean the casein plus the other ingredients?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

4 жыл бұрын

@@Thestripper1 I was referring to the gesso recipe in the video. I wouldn't worry about the ingredients, you've already got that information. I would more so worry about the paint consistency that you are trying to achieve. Along with the effects of the casein.

@Thestripper1

4 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft I'm mostly worried that if I added gesso, then the plaster would probably lower the saturation of the pigment used. Since Casein is a binder it wil probably work to just add that to the gouache paint, or water color paint to make it dry to a non water soluble layer. I will try and give a report soon as I get my paints. Thanks for good input!

Buy Lefranc & Bourgeois universal purpose casein ground. It is in fine dust form, so you still need to prepare it by mixing with water. It is less absorbent than acrylic gesso, but still not as impermeable as oil grounds. You will be happy. :)

Thanks for doing this. When would you include a water sealing size below the gesso? I imagine wood panels would require such an undercoat. If you don't gesso and varnish the front and back of the panel or sheet can the casien rot from the back? I'm just learning about paints for the first time.

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

Жыл бұрын

I still have a few panels that have showed no signs of rot. Although I keep them in a dry place. If you are painting on wood it is a good idea to treat the back as well but its up to you. I put nothing under the gesso. After it dried and cured I still havent had any problems with it.

@jessehorstman

Жыл бұрын

@@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft thanks for sharing your experience. I have been doing some reading about sealants this morning nonetheless. I understand that animal hide glue was a traditional size, but it is susceptable to rot. Lacquer sounds like it may be ideal. Although it sounds like it may not be necessary, do you have any thoughts about the use of lacquer in paintings as a size or as a varnish?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

Жыл бұрын

Usually a laquer would be used on wood as a finish. To size a canvas of wood or cotton, would be to prepare it for the various chemicals, that would go on top of your canvas. Traditionally skin glues would be used to "size" the canvas before a white ground of white paint would complete the gesso process. Ideally the chemicals you use to protect your canvas' foundation would be PH neutral. To prevent rot of say your paper. [I.e. acid free paper] Or make it less delicious for bugs. Which is what I would be worried about here.

@jessehorstman

Жыл бұрын

@@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft thank you. the video about blurring the lines and preserving accurate values was cool.

Thanks very much helpful ur videos

It seems to be great work and interesting = but time consuming. I hope there is an easier way to paint with oil

hey I was wondering if you could use it for watercolor painting as well

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

7 жыл бұрын

You sure could.

@kcajmortsnnew1488

6 жыл бұрын

I've been painting watercolors on gessoed panels for years...usually RSG gesso (see above)...it will ,if you've not yet tried it yet , .demand rethinking how you apply paint...no groovy washes ,it's best for a dry brush technique...but VERY forgiving...you can erase easily....and no more $20 sheets of paper..HOORAH...

can you varnish over the gesso after the painting is dry

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

7 жыл бұрын

I don't see why not. Varnish application all depends on whether or not the chemicals below it are dry. This gesso dries very quickly, as gesso should, so it all depends on your paint at that point.

какой гипс обичный?

Tennis !

Hello. There is no way that the casein gesso last more than two days? Thanks

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

2 жыл бұрын

The gesso would last likely as long as milk in the fridge.

hi can i ask for this medieval source od cheese gesso?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

3 жыл бұрын

Oh man its been so long. Sorry I don't think I can find it. I remember it being a Fench article too. I had to translate it.

I think I should have watched this one first!

Здравствуйте поскажите как зделать клей казеиновый?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

7 жыл бұрын

Обезжиренное молоко с винагаром, взять сыворотку и смешать с гипсомObezzhirennoye moloko s vinagarom, vzyat' syvorotku i smeshat' s gipsom

why PLASTER? i use calcium carbonate-whiting-from a pottery supply store in R.S.G. gesso...costs 10 cents a lb! Commercial gesso calls it marble dust..ha,ha,ha..antything to keep the prices up!...anyway ,i tried casein gesso a few yrs.ago w/no success,but need to experiment further...NOT FOR CANVAS...canvas is and has always been a BAD ground for painting..flexible,and finally ,it rots ...good for conservators tho....gives the art vultures a job....

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

7 жыл бұрын

Hahaha I like that term "art vultures". I forgot to experiment with calcium carbonate. It was suggested to me a bit ago. One suggested I got from a informant of a paper company was to use gelatin. Yet to do that as well but next time I will take your advice and find myself a pottery store. Thank you.

@dubanonymouse

7 жыл бұрын

yeah...you know Meyer said gelatin is not as strong as rabbit skin glue?(oh no,killing bunnies for "art")...Daniel Smith used to be a pretty good store,but last time i went in,they'd been bought by OH NO)...pigment companies also consolodating,"art"'s becoming big biz. ...anyway,they do still have R.S.G @ approx.$10 lb...that's where i get mine...BUT ,if i can get casein down,that'd be where it's at..hard times? foodstamp(milk) art saupplies......i'm new to the internet,and am astounded at the available info...when i was your age we were stuck out here ,buying PRODUCTS from......i wanted to start a page--THE STARVING ARTIST , since i think you DO need to quit your day job to do the work, and"suffer"[a joke,son] ..but now i don't have to.....too much info to process,but i'd be happy to continue a conversation...found a site using milk emulsion w/oil...HUGE potenital...nice to be excited again,been pretty jaded past 10 yrs...this internet signals a kind of rennaisance. because information (ALL KINDS) is becoming free... ....wonderful insecurity...but cd be dangerous...ah well...peace,j.w.

@thebones

7 жыл бұрын

+dubanonymouse well canvas may be a bad ground, it depends on your opinion, there are plenty of paintings around that are 400 and 500 years old painted on canvas. Assuming panels are superior to canvas for a moment, what do you do when you want to paint a giant painting, say anything above 1.5m x 1m, wood is impractical, too heavy and loads of problems with cracking, warping, micro fissures etc.? I size my canvases with R.S.G. and then prime with distemper, which for all those who don't know is made with R.S.G. egg, oil, water and pigment if you need it. Four to six thin coats makes a beautiful, smooth, velvety painting surface and it bonds chemically with oil paint. To seal drawings before painting, draw, then spray on skimmed milk, wipe off excess, apply three coats and the drawing is protected from smearing and as a bonus, the canvas becomes almost non-absorbent. Milk products are great for painting with.

@kcajmortsnnew1488

6 жыл бұрын

oh , I forgot....CSO valasquez down below has an INTERESTING approach wherein he mixes powdered milk w/skim milk to make a paste he uses as medium for oil paint ......milk indeed the future....Elmers glue used to be casein ,i believe....til they wised up (! ?) to acrylic polymers ,i suspect.......PROGRESS does not guarantee improvement.....give me a fixable 1982 car over a brain dead 21st century car any day.....but then ,i'm just a crotchety old fart........

Извини это что пищевая сода или гипс на каробке написино по англискому ?

@MichaelSchmittMasterMadCraft

7 жыл бұрын

пищевая сода

@sanjaratoshov4664

7 жыл бұрын

Спасибо

But dude.. You are using milk that has been pasteurized... It would probably be safest to go to a farmer, or better yet go to a cow and get the good stuff.