Kiwi electrochemist here; hit me up if you ever want a second pair of eyes to go over things xD Love your work, mate!

Gotta love the online Chem geniuses. They're a great resource for us rubes.

If you ever need pure salt again you should probably go for pickling salt, it's non-iodized and doesn't contain anti-caking agents and should be very pure sodium chloride.

@wat8437

3 жыл бұрын

Pickling salt is a very american thing, so it might not be available over the water

@blackirish781

3 жыл бұрын

Kosher salt is pure NaCl and available everywhere.

@chemistryofquestionablequa6252

3 жыл бұрын

Kosher salt is pure NaCl

@MrBradshawbenjamin

3 жыл бұрын

@@wat8437 really? why?

@WizardNumberNext

3 жыл бұрын

@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 wrong kosher salt can be anything, as long it would have big flaky crystals kosher salt doesn't even have to contain any sodium

15:43 - I can tell something funny is about to be revealed, but I didn't know I'd shortly be laughing myself to tears and giving myself goddamn hiccups for 20 minutes. Man, never stop being you. All of the careful working out, attention to detail, etc, and then... yeah. That shit never fails for me either.

9:48 it’s good you’re 80% positive the electrode isn’t negative

80% x 80% = Reasonable. Can't argue with the maths :-D

1 mole of electrons is 96458 coulombs of electrons. Or in other words, at 6 amps, you'd be producing 62 micromoles of electrons per second. 2 electrons are required to liberate a chlorine molecule, so 6A would be giving off 1.5mls of chlorine a second. 1.5ml/s is alot, in 24hours you'd fill 129 1L bottles. 6-7A is also crazy high current for a small setup like yours. Energy losses through wires are proportional to current squared. Just 1 ohms on your crocodile clips and you'd be producing 30-50 watts of wasted heat

@VerbenaIDK

2 жыл бұрын

well that's fine, if it keeps the cell at 80 c, for maximum efficiency, less work to do :p

Nice electrodes! the best thing about these cells is the simplicity. even the simplest setups will produce chlorates if made well. plus they can just run unattended. i'm sure woeleon will appreciate the shoutout. have just last week finished a rather large run of my newly made 1.9l cell. i used the electrodes i built for my video on my cell but put them in a nice large reject shop bought barrel. two rubber grommets kept the whole thing nicely contained with no crust creep to be seen and safe enough to run inside. it was running at 5v 18A and i run about 900g NaCl. The problem is now dichromate leftover in solution and it has made the NaClO3 yellow with it's inclusion. not really sure if a re crystallization will remove it totally. but i have not tried yet. a tip to help the electrolysis go smoother would be to put it on your stir plate and spin away for a few hours at a time. i had mine running on off most of the way through on a timer for 15mins per hour.

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah I could chuck in on the hotplate, just to keep it at a good running temperature as it gets cold afternight, good thought. 1.9L cell, niceee. Hopefully the recryst does clear it up, working on that scale is hard, but don't see why the recryst of the material wont fix that issue.

@AllChemystery

7 жыл бұрын

NerdShedLabs TM GeekSufniLab once you work out the cell parameters eg: volume, Amps, anode surface area, the amount of salt in the cell, you can use some fairly simple calculations to get a good idea on how many amp hours are needed to convert the salt into chlorate. The main problem is calculated efficiency. Finally you can take advantage of the higher solubility of NaClO3 vs NaCl and recrystallise it. Also separate using acetone may be possible as NaCl is practically insoluble in acetone and NaClO3 is.

@yermom1896

6 жыл бұрын

AllChemystery

@tomasbrod1533

6 жыл бұрын

Nope. Mine passivated after 6 hours. It is probably because I did something wrong two times in a row. Anyway I got more and I am going to try again.

@VerbenaIDK

2 жыл бұрын

other cool thing about these cells is that you can even make perchlorate if you are determinated enough tho idk if i will even be able to make chlorate with the stuff i have, no heating, just water, table salt and graphite electrodes, been running it for pobably 2 hours rn from a old ass phone charger and all i got is a weird green stuff floating on the surface, definitively not sodium chlorate

Hey mate 😊 Just wanted to say that I really enjoy your videos. you're absolutely awesome! Please keep them going!

“The cats not allowed in the lab… Obviously”

Damn decimal points.

Can't wait for the update. Love your videos!

Does aqueous sodium chlorate have better or worse electrolytic properties than aqueous sodium chloride?

Is it possible to make NaClO2 from NaCl using similar method ??

12:30 but wikki says you have to heat nacl aqs in order to make naclo2 in this way ??

Thank you for working on this and making a video. I had made chlorate a few times now, first with carbon, then with MMO. Also I like your way of talking and speech. I wouldn't worry about pH controll unless you can drip-feed your acid in. you can read on APC that just splashing acid every two days won't improve the efficiency. Your constant current supply is more suited to chlorate than my constant voltage one, but is not very strong. Unfortunatelly it is way harder to modify (the free!) computer PSUs into constant current mode than to voltage mode.

@OrbitalSaucer

4 жыл бұрын

voltage is the parameter which dictates the specific chemistry occurring in the cell, and so I would choose this to be the parameter kept constant. Amperage is the number of moles per unit time produced and should be simply maximized without the electrolyte getting too hot.

What use of dichromate ?

Hey mate how do you measure the pH without bleaching your strips? I'm pretty sure I added waaay too much HCl as well due to difficulty reading bleached strips, and I've got two different kinds.

@ExtractionsAndIre

5 жыл бұрын

Usually the colour comes up first before the bleaching or your let the drop soak in enough that the edges give a good enough reading. That probably makes no sense, but it works with the strips I use. I've never liked the standard 4 panel dip pH strip ones for this reason,

Can i using another catode without titanium? Pls reply

Where did you find those TACC and TACN papers? I've been trying too look everywhere but i can't seem to find a good source

@bromisovalum8417

3 жыл бұрын

sciencemadness?

Crocodile clips is that an Australian thing? in America we call them alligator clips.

@transkryption

5 жыл бұрын

Different snout and don't eat children in Disney World

@bearcatben4762

5 жыл бұрын

@@transkryption also crocodiles can live well on land but alligators need water periodically

@kirkc9643

4 жыл бұрын

@@transkryption bahahaha crocodiles aren't fussy...they'll eat adults or children

Did you place the hose so that the jar touches the water?.please i am waiting for reply

Is the sodium dichromate mandatory? why add sodium dichromate?

Yellow chem!

is titanium required?

Keep it btw 40-50 celsius and it should run fine

In evaporation pan salt making theyve got it sussed out, they know what pops out sol ( ution ) 1st and so on down to the last faction. So yeah.

Electrolytic cells are awesome!!!!

@bromisovalum8417

3 жыл бұрын

Yep they are! Organic electrochemistry is cool too, but ther's the eternal diaphragm issues, and you'd be best to invest in a calomel or silver/silver chloride reference electrode so you can fien tune the voltage needed for your cell conditions to maximize the wanted reaction and minimize the competing gas evolution reaction. A Kolbe reaction is a nice one to test the waters, or a simple (high overvoltage) electroreduction.

Try 5 volts 1 amp and tig rods. and time 6.7 ph 70c and don't pour salt in the mix it will cause a direct short

What is cold for you? 5C?

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

sometimes it reaches zero ok i'm soft alright

@Frostlander

7 жыл бұрын

Not tossing flak, just wanted a good idea of what the temp was in the vid. I appreciate the speedy reply.

that is surprising sodium chloride dissolves 30g in 100ml water of any liquid temperature, so it may be close to freezing or close to boiling and it still be 30g/100ml

Doing electrochem atm in uni and it's "voodoo horseshit"

Are you in Australia?

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

yep!

its gonna boom

Is it relatively easier and/or less electrical current-intensive to just make a solution of sodium hypochlorite, then use heating to disproportionate that into chloride and chlorate? I ask because maybe that could be a quicker or more viable option for people without higher-current electrical power supplies for the electrolysis.

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

Good question. Yes it is less current intensive, but it doesn't produce good quality Na chlorate. If it id, I could boil down the 10L of 10% hypochlorite I have lying around. Ok so think about it like this: boiling hypochlorite makes chloride and chlorate. So for every molecule of chlorate, there's roughly one molecule of chloride. The chloride is less soluble, so it will be difficult to purify a 50/50 mix of Na Chloride/chlorate. In a chloride cell, you're turning chloride into chlorate, so while you're increasing chlorate molecules you're also decreasing chloride molecules, so after some time its easy to purify out chlorate because it's in vast excess.

@Minecraftmigapiku

2 жыл бұрын

How about mixed method. Heat up to get 50/50 mix and them electrolysis?

You do not need to add dichromate when you use MMO anode and titanium cathode. Actually if you do use it it will shorten the life of your MMO anode. Dichromate is only needed when using a steel cathode to limit parasitic reactions, but those are very minimal when using titanium. I run a cell similar to yours without dichromate and it works very well.

@DrakkarCalethiel

6 жыл бұрын

stamasd Thanks for the information! Since dichromates are only commercially​ available I'll just need to get a titanium and a MMO electrode.

@TheFireGoose

Жыл бұрын

Do graphite electrodes benefit from dichromates?

I mean they are aluminum rocks, is it water soluble? After getting to the anti-caking agent part I checked the salt in the house and it just had calcium silicate, dextrose, and KI, which did relieve me lol. I mean I'm sure the sodium aluminosilicate is in real small amounts, but it still kinda freaked me out a little

Electro chemistry is interesting but not exciting not much happens and it's hard to do in casual/ghetto settings so I don't really delve in it But lovely video man

When you talk about periodically adjusting the pH of the solution manually - that must be a hassle. Why dont you setup a simple pH Arduino controller unit with an automatic injector valve connected to a small bottle of HCl. This seems like the perfect example where it would be highly effective at and it wouldn't be to difficult to setup either considering all the parts are available online. That means you would have a fully autonomous process and you can just check on it from time to time :)

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

Hey i've been thinking about this for a while so here is the reply: I mean first up is the cost and effort of such a system to fix what is a relatively minor problem for the cell. I have no idea how to code at all so there's that. pH meters, at least good ones, at quite pricey. But anyway, the major issue I feel is an issue with pH meters themselves. pH meters aren't designed to stay for long periods in solutions (other than the buffer they come with). They work but continually comparing an internal reference solution to the outside world. If the meter stays in the basic chlorate cell, it would quick begin to drift and before long it would likely be all over the shop with its values. So it needs to not soak in the solution and also continually get calibrated. I do like the idea of it being autonomous though. If the cells holds at ~50C then the evaporation rate is reasonable, so a very slow drip of a very weak acid + some NaCl would replace the water and keep the pH more reasonable, something like that wouldn't be that hard to rig up. Would also stop the chloride level falling so fast, but still lets the chlorate crystalise out when it reaches that point, as you're adding a solution of the NaCl.

@Timothy656

7 жыл бұрын

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Digital-pH-Controller-Meter-Tester-Replaceable-BNC-Electrode-220V-or-110V/201748400270?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908131621%26meid%3D52065665bfad488aaf99a74d17900d56%26pid%3D100678%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D13%26sd%3D201748400270&_trksid=p2481888.c100678.m3607&_trkparms=pageci%253Aab1e24d1-86c8-11e7-986f-74dbd180f925%257Cparentrq%253A0721c80915e0abc642f9720ffffdf68b%257Ciid%253A1

@tomasbrod1533

6 жыл бұрын

For more info see: www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/7502-ph-control-for-chlorate-cells/

@firstmkb

4 жыл бұрын

Extractions&Ire I doubt a DIY pH monitor would be worth the trouble, but you could mount the probe on a servo and have the Arduino dip it in the solution periodically. Relying on new code to release HCl would make me a bit nervous - nothing for someone that makes the products you do though!

Lol that conspiracy site you linked says "No company in Australia, USA, or other developed countries is allowed legally to use the word "natural" on it's packaging, if the product contains any tape of preservatives or chemicals." I can't think of one food that doesn't contain chemicals.

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

you lose a lot of weight on a chemical free diet

@OrbitalSaucer

4 жыл бұрын

@@ExtractionsAndIre pure iron filings should be edible and an element rather than a chemical

PANIC!!! Positive anode, negative is cathode Always helps me ahah

5 bucks that he typed in "food additive *blah blah blah*" saw conspiracy theories and them went back to search and typed "food additive *blah blah blah* identity"

Was about to say 'is this really a Explosions&Fire video if it doesn't have everybody's favourite Explosions&Fire opening music?' but then I realised it's your other channel. You need theme music, my bro-mate ;)

@the_cat_prinse3506

7 жыл бұрын

Also. MORE CAT.

@accipiternisus649

6 жыл бұрын

Fck music we need facts

why are you avoiding potassium?

@ExtractionsAndIre

6 жыл бұрын

nickt potassium chlorate is much less soluble than sodium chlorate, so will come out as an impurity in the crop of crystals we get. Not an issue for most applications, but it's annoying for some, and so if we're going to the effort of making Na chlorate, we might as well make it as good as can be, ya feel

@nicktohzyu

6 жыл бұрын

what are applications where you want to avoid potassium? thanks for replying

@ExtractionsAndIre

6 жыл бұрын

nickt thanks for commenting! Well I was making this sodium chlorate because I wanted to make ammonium chlorate (see my other channel called Explosions&Fire2), which needs to crystallise out from solution. Any potassium in the chlorate would contaminate it, and the energetic properties of the ammonium chlorate rely on the fact that there's just ammonium and chlorate, so potassium would lead to an inferior product. Sure, it would be minor, but it is nice being sure of purity

@bearcatben4762

5 жыл бұрын

@@ExtractionsAndIre Why would your rain water have potassium in it? do you live inside of a coal plant

MMO?

@OrbitalSaucer

4 жыл бұрын

multiple metal oxide, a special coating to resist anodic breakdown since almost all metals get destroyed under these conditions. Lead dioxide elctrodes from batteries can do in a pinch

@bruni5289

4 жыл бұрын

@@OrbitalSaucer ah, okay. Good to know

@OrbitalSaucer

4 жыл бұрын

oh your're some nazi degenerate great

@somniato7759

4 жыл бұрын

@@OrbitalSaucer what?

@BackYardScience2000

4 жыл бұрын

@@somniato7759 , check out bruni's profile picture.

Lmao so true about the organic blogs and conspiracy shit online. Chemicals = hazards, didn't you know that ;D

glassy carbon seems to work fine

@davemwangi05

4 жыл бұрын

what the hell is glassy carbon?

@CatboyChemicalSociety

4 жыл бұрын

@@davemwangi05 something not worth your time honestly. MMO is cheaper and better and with pH control your cell will run better.

@CatboyChemicalSociety

4 жыл бұрын

I actually want to get glassy carbon to dope it with boron so it can make NaClO4!!

it's cold in Australia mate? though most of that was a dessert hahahah

@theterribleanimator1793

5 жыл бұрын

"Cold" as in searing, not burning.

What are the best chemist compounds? Bromate ones. Because they are Bro, Mates! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHHA AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA *LMAO*

You are making me dizzy! Can you use a tripod for your camera?

Jesus when u said u were putting 7 amps through there I was wondering where all the heat was. God damn decimal points

Why sodium chlorate but not potassium chlorate?

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

Think i'll need the more soluble salt for an upcoming project or two. Also just to be a little difference, less videos on a sodium chlorate cell than potassium (not that there's much difference)

@accipiternisus649

6 жыл бұрын

It give great yellow color.And kclo3 gives more red

@accipiternisus649

6 жыл бұрын

Wei Zhao make sodium perchlorate solution then just add ammonium chloride and you have ammonium perchlorate percipate at bottom

lmao if i can eat clay I can eat 554

@WizardNumberNext

3 жыл бұрын

yes, you can eat clay clay is aluminium oxide, same as sapphire Good look dissolving or reacting sapphire in hydrochloric acid even including all enzymes human body is using to digest food it is different with artificial additive just be safe and don't compare completely different chemicals like both are apples one maybe be Apple, but other is very much goat

@Damon2920

3 жыл бұрын

@@WizardNumberNext clay is alumino silicates not aluminium oxide. Kaolinite for example is a 1:1 clay or montmorillonite is a 2:1 clay

@WizardNumberNext

3 жыл бұрын

@@Damon2920 thank you for correction. I appreciate information. I had idea, bad half of my idea was wrong. Thanks

Did you just assume that cells gender? You monster!!

"...the pHaych"

@ExtractionsAndIre

7 жыл бұрын

yo but how do you say it then?

@nathanpimental4409

7 жыл бұрын

"peey-Aych" - No hard-breath vowel...

@the_cat_prinse3506

7 жыл бұрын

That's fairly common pronunciation in Australia. Our articulation of alphabet letters are taught "ee, eff, gee, haych, eye, jay..."

Hmmm

Hah you call alligator clips crocodile clips

..... 7 amps bruh

pee-heyache

"80% positive" ha..ha

i thought u use bleach....

@OrbitalSaucer

4 жыл бұрын

hypochlorite (bleach) is an intermediate of the process of going from chlorides to chlorates via electrolysis, so you could use bleach if it was concentrated enough

well fine this salt additive maybe be rock, but you forgotten your stomach is not full of water but hydrochloric acid, so you should first check how it reacts there with additions of other acids and enzymes, then you have duodenum, which adds other enzymes suddenly you shouldn't be that relaxed about anything containing aluminium on the other side tea contains some aluminium too I honestly don't know effects of this additive, but I wouldn't be that quick to judge either way just stay at safe side and avoid such salt, as it may end up poisonous anyway

While you're on the subject of electrochemistry . You could give methamphetamine by electrolysis a a try.