Hi Tim. It's us, everyone.

@AlexZebol

3 ай бұрын

It is me - the everyone!

@Onomere

3 ай бұрын

Hi us. It's everyone, Tim.

@snaremori

3 ай бұрын

So true!

@waterramp1

3 ай бұрын

I approve of this

@ninjaballgaming

3 ай бұрын

Hi Tim!

i personally don't think its a cure i think its just delaying the inevitable feralification

@hengineer

3 ай бұрын

Same

@ComradeStrogg

3 ай бұрын

Agree. I remember an article about body degradation. Researchers said that hypothetically it's possible to live forever by changing your organs or putting your brain into a new body. But the only thing that we don't know how to "update" is our own brain. You can live as long as you want, but eventually your brain will start to shut down and you can't do anything about it. I think something similar happens to ghouls. They can live for a 100, 150 years, but at some point their brain condition worsens and they become feral. I suppose this "drug" is what stops the brain from degradation. In the beginning a ghoul has to take, say, one vial per week to keep himself functional, but with time he'll have to consume more vials to the point that they are completely useless. Then it's either a bullet to the brain or going feral.

@skyflash6273

3 ай бұрын

Would be funny if it's just placebo, as so far we haven't really seen it preventing going feral in any substantial way

@we_played_Hob_Gobbies_together

3 ай бұрын

Agreed. Tim is just kinda dumb.

@helioseternal2537

3 ай бұрын

Totally agree

ah yes my daily dose of tim cain in the morning

@backslashzero

3 ай бұрын

I'm the same way. I get withdrawal symptoms on the weekends.

@CainOnGames

3 ай бұрын

Uncle Tim gets to sleep in on weekends

@niallmacrae6016

3 ай бұрын

​@CainOnGames and Uncle Tim deserves it ❤

@carlosprazeres8358

3 ай бұрын

How much cocoa in such a dose?

@BrandanLee

3 ай бұрын

Uncle Tim with morning prep for game dev is such a comforting presence. Yeah I gotta get to work and manage this titanic project but Uncle Tim's got the cadence started. It's wonderful.

The moment in Fallout 2 when you get the car was so AMAZING! Just cruising over the map, your buddies around and a trunk full of weapons and supplies. No one could stop us!

@guguigugu

3 ай бұрын

_this bad boy can fit so many microfusion cells in it_

@BrettCaton

3 ай бұрын

Coming from someone who grew up with Mad Max, it was pretty special.

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

Good thing the whole entire world was flat and mostly featureless and the suspension wasn't made out of aluminum cans and adhesive scraped off of duct tape

@nicwalker882

3 ай бұрын

Funny thing, in FNV I recently found a wrecked Highwayman and inside the trunk there was a bunch of loot, including an armoured vault 13 jumpsuit and a vault 13 canteen. Coincidence? 🧐

@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation

3 ай бұрын

Awesome theme song too!

"Notice I never did a personal attack?" This is why you're the GOAT, Tim.

I used fallout 1 and ur design principles for world building for a presentation at school and got a 100. Thanks Tim Cain!!!

@jakces3810

3 ай бұрын

Good for you man, congrats!

@BrandonCourt

3 ай бұрын

epic

My mother always told me we can disagree, but we don't need to be disagreeable doing it.

@chengkuoklee5734

2 ай бұрын

Everyone wants to disagree, they just can't agree how to do it.

@docweidner

2 ай бұрын

@@chengkuoklee5734 Nice.

Lore... Lore never changes. (Except it constantly changes)

@grahamstoner

3 ай бұрын

A bit like war. War always changes, really.

@Swedishmafia101MemeCorporation

3 ай бұрын

​@@grahamstoner"War changes all the time, actually." * LOUD FALLOUT INTRO THEME *

@phantombigboss8429

3 ай бұрын

War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. 😂

@grahamstoner

3 ай бұрын

@@Orinslayer It seems like war changed but in actuality it was just that WE never changed, which ended up causing some confusion.

@Nothing_51578

3 ай бұрын

​@@phantombigboss8429literally gamebryo moment

One of my favourite examples of drastically changing lore for the right reasons is the Battlestar Galactica reboot because almost every single change and new creative decision was an improvement over the original.

@Twm532

3 ай бұрын

Starbuck was far worse in the reboot. They turned her into an annoying brat

@chaserseven2886

3 ай бұрын

@@Twm532 ngl anyone named starbuck sounds like an annoying brat

@godsoloved24

3 ай бұрын

​@hellsregect but for dramatic effect! Honestly, though, she felt like one of those people we all know who can't make a good decision for the life of them.

@artdjesus6267

3 ай бұрын

@@Twm532 She needed a character flaw because she was good at everything.

@ZiddersRooFurry

3 ай бұрын

@@Twm532 Yes. They made her better and hotter :P

That scene with Thaddeus taking that drug. At first I thought it was something mixed with Radium and it was going to turn him into a ghoul but then I thought, Ghouls dont regenerate like that and in the same show The Ghoul had to stitch his finger back on. I think he drank FEV or at least some kind of variation of it. I got the impression that he was no longer human anymore after drinking it. The regeneration and radiation resistance but also surviving that crossbow bolt to the neck is what makes me think that way.

@erraticonteuse

3 ай бұрын

To be fair, Thaddeus still had all the pieces of his foot, they just needed to be brought back together. Cooper's finger was completely severed (also, I think the finger he sewed on was Lucy's). But I agree that Thaddeus definitely has more going on than "became a ghoul".

@appropriate-channelname3049

3 ай бұрын

He also might have been slightly hallucinating the rapid regeneration of his foot.

@MrLOLZdude15

3 ай бұрын

Reminder that Hancock in Fallout 4 took a drug to become a ghoul. Could be the same stuff Thaddeus was given.

@titanbro5871

3 ай бұрын

@@erraticonteuse good point. I was thinking that when typing but I thought the immediate regeneration and surviving the crossbow bolt to the neck are too much for him to simply be a ghoul. It could be her finger but also isnt. The finger he sewed seemed too much like a perfect fit to be hers but also it did look like he pocketed Lucy's finger during their exchange.

@titanbro5871

3 ай бұрын

@@MrLOLZdude15 that is also true but Hancock did say it was the only one of its kind but his credibility can be put to question. We do know that the chem gave Hancock a serious high but for Thaddeus he looked sober. Also another thought that I have is whats the point for the skin to regrow if it was just going to start peeling off later down the line.

This is just a theory but it could be that the anti-feral drug is for ghouls that are starting to go feral. Like, they could go a bit or a while without it depending on the individual, but when they start going feral, that’s when they need to get the drug (if they can even find it, I mean look what cooper had to do to get 60 vials of the stuff). Regardless, I’d love to see how the show elaborates more on it in the second season

@PenitusVox

3 ай бұрын

They all but said that in the show, I'm pretty sure. Cooper's other ghoul friend said he only started experiencing feral symptoms 20-something years ago.

Hey Tim, can you make a video of your top 10 books, I read A Canticle for Leibowitz (since you mentioned it inspiring the brotherhood) and it got me into reading and it was one of the best things I have ever experienced.

@CainOnGames

3 ай бұрын

Sure thing! I’m on it.

@dangonzalez752

3 ай бұрын

@@CainOnGames Thanks Tim, you just made my day!

@littlesaigon1042

3 ай бұрын

GREAT book, also read on Tim’s recommendation. One of my favorites now. Lord of Light is next after I finish the Tolkien series

@alfieburns9019

3 ай бұрын

I’ve also been reading A Canticle for Leibowitz since Tim mentioned it, the ending of the first story absolutely threw me, it was epic.

@dangonzalez752

3 ай бұрын

@@alfieburns9019 my jaw literally dropped after that part, was actually my first book outside of school work and it took a bit to get into imaging the scenes but by that point I had it down and I was stunned lol

You are the Santa of KZread - giving us all awesome presents almost daily!

I've been binging these videos. So well spoken and full of genius

Little Billy in the refrigerator didn’t need food or water for 200 years, and he never aged 😂

@sisiwhatever1162

3 ай бұрын

You didn't understand. They threw the bombs, and after that shady sands rose up from the ashes. When Lucy's mom realised there was an actual city working outside she escaped with her two kids, and then is when shady sands get bombed for a second time and all goes to hell. Then is when the mom turns into a ghoul.

@crizzonet

3 ай бұрын

@@sisiwhatever1162 understand what? It’s Fallout 4 sarcasm… smh

Can we appreciate the irony that the game mimics reality in that you never get to see the car driving around because of engine limitations? ^- ^

@toastyretinas

3 ай бұрын

One modder got cars working really well

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

Um aaaackshually the car has a reactor and a motor, not an engine

@ZiddersRooFurry

3 ай бұрын

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman Shh.

@starchillius

3 ай бұрын

i just know you ripped this off someone on twitter

That arnold impression was on point, hahah 😄 i liked your word on Lore Drift.

Honestly, I just think the Ghoul drug was radaway. We see it hooked up to Coop when he's in the grave, and it makes sense to me that if feralisation can be caused by continued exposure to radiation, Radaway would be able to stave it off.

@moonlightingjam

3 ай бұрын

I've seen it be mentioned a few times and honestly I think it makes sense. The whole feralisation treatment might look like it comes out of nowhere, but it's not that far fetched when you actually stop to think about it. There has to be an explanation as to why some ghouls are fine after 200+ years but others have gone feral. And if it's simply Radaway, then it would explain why it's never really been mentioned before. It's not a miracle cure, it's one of the most ordinary healing items in the game.

@ermwhatdaheck

3 ай бұрын

I would buy that if it wasn't for the traveling snake oil salesman turning Thaddeus immediately into a ghoul with one huff of whatever it was he gave him

@skanderbeg152

3 ай бұрын

​@@ermwhatdaheckwe dont know hes a ghoul. Maximus has already shown his intellectual inneptitude, theres no reason to trust him now.

@WGSXFrank

3 ай бұрын

@@ermwhatdaheck I'm really hoping that season 2 comes with a reveal that it was a drug laced with FEV, and that Thaddeus is turning mutant, rather than ghoul. It would line up with already establish FEV lore in regards to the healing factor.

@Gu1tarZer0

3 ай бұрын

@@WGSXFrank I 100% thought that as well, and I thought maybe Cooper had taken that drug in the past too at some point.

Hi Tim, it's not just fallout 3 or 4 where ghouls don't need water - there are two seperate cases in Fallout 2 of a ghoul being alive for years in a coffin

@Thagomizer

3 ай бұрын

Not years, weeks or months.

@carterthacker5837

3 ай бұрын

​@@Thagomizer people overlook the fact in the show that the ghoul isnt just left in that coffin forever, hes kept alive so that his captor can keep harvesting parts of himc to sell, im sure hes fed and given water

@Palendrome

3 ай бұрын

​@@carterthacker5837he had an IV attached above the grave

@we_played_Hob_Gobbies_together

3 ай бұрын

Tim doesn't even know his own games. Don't listen to this fraud, he is just cashing in on the Fallout TV SHOW. -- EDIT; To all the future people who wanna reply to my comment, TIM only worked on the first game. A GAME that came out in 1997. 1997 is the last time he worked on the Fallout IP. 1997.

@janoycresva2279

3 ай бұрын

​@@Palendrome yeah of rad-away not water

"I think they need a nap" new touch grass, "take a nap"

@jakces3810

3 ай бұрын

Tim is incredibly based for saying this.

@dr.virus1295

3 ай бұрын

Yep, I'm gonna start using that.

@dankmansalley417

3 ай бұрын

My favorite part of the video

@thatguyklye

3 ай бұрын

Not new it's been a saying for many years. Same with using words like gnarly - people just move on to speaking in a general way people understand. I still use take a nap though, or bedtime.

@BababooeyGooey

3 ай бұрын

A subgenre of telling these kids they're up past their bedtime.

Lore. Lore never changes.

Lore Drift is 100% exactly like Tokyo Drift, and I'm glad you made that analogy.

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

In that when people initiate the dorifuto, they almost never stop and they're doing it purely for money and clout

@yewtewbstew547

3 ай бұрын

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman They spin out lol.

@imightbebiased9311

3 ай бұрын

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman I think it works because if your lore's not outta control, it's not in control.

@EricShoe

3 ай бұрын

It's more like Lore Hydroplaning

Loving the popsicle shirt, Tim!

Very well said. Criticisms - ESPECIALLY online - shouldn't be an attack. Lore drift is a good phrase for this too, it might be a bit destructive and discombobulating but its natural and ultimately inevitable. Also I'm personally still holding out hope that the regeneration serum was FEV or some offshoot.

@Fuk99999

3 ай бұрын

Natural is entirely dependent on how organic it meshes. It’s why comparative myth is useful. We can comb the Bible and using context clues and cross referencing figure out pretty easily when something doesn’t fit because so much of it was written by very different people at very different points in time, with different events going on. It tends to be much harder when applied to mythologies that seem to have completely supplanted what was the main religion in an area. The Bible is easy to pinpoint its non native influences. But it’s a whole lot harder to strip apart any indo European mythology and figure out what doesn’t belong in it because enough of it is heavily consistent. Lore changes. It drifts, but consistency with those changes is never equally dramatic

The way I see it, the show lore is event canon but not mechanically canon. Film/TV often requires different storytelling tools from games, so I'm not going to be mad when an adaptation from one medium to another swaps in some of the storytelling tools of the new medium, even if it may *technically* result in different lore, because if the whole franchise had always been a show, the lore would also have been different. There's still no lore to explain how Stimpaks work, but nobody care because we understand the real purpose is to make the game easier to play/let the show do cartoony violence and let the characters survive anyway. Giving ghouls an anti-feral serum is an efficient way to show the audience that there's more downsides to being a ghoul than just losing a nose, it gives Cooper a weakness when he's otherwise been shown to be very in control of himself in every situation he's been in; it also makes it understandable why Lucy would think it was good to release Martha but then have to kill her (an important character development for Lucy). TV shows can't spend the time to explain things that games can or else it would drag and potentially better scenes or characterization would get a short shrift.

@blueshellincident

3 ай бұрын

Fnaf book type lore

@Fuk99999

3 ай бұрын

The problem here is the show borrows a lot of “mechanical” elements to its own detriment. It’s why I say the lore problems are problems of believability

@Ne0ConKiller

3 ай бұрын

sry im not reading all that

@andrewmoluf4299

3 ай бұрын

@@Ne0ConKillerbragging about being illiterate why?

@Ne0ConKiller

3 ай бұрын

@@andrewmoluf4299 I just stated simple intent. No bragging, no saying I cant read. Therefore your comment is quit ironic!

“The reverend mother Helena… goyim? Mohiam? Idk Helena Bonham Carter lol. Reverend mother Helena!” This whole bit had me in stitches , thanks Tim. Btw, her name is Gaius Helen Mohiam, so close enough.

Lore Drift sounds like the name of a video game about a multi-timeline adventure in a fantasy setting

@Gun_Metal_Grey

3 ай бұрын

more like Science-Fiction

@brethnew

3 ай бұрын

Fiona and cake tv show

One of the only lore drifts I noticed in the show was there weren't any glitches and bugs like the game.

One of my favorite things to come out of the TV show is discovering this channel

@devforfun5618

3 ай бұрын

me too, i always thought tim was amazing but never imagined he would be on youtube, then i searched his name to see if he did anything on the show and discovered hundreds of videos on game design, that is like finding a treasure chest

@andrewmoluf4299

3 ай бұрын

He’s delightful, very positive

Hope you read this Tim: from a mid-40's gamer for whom og Fallout already seemed old when I played it (90's-2000's gamers & devs know what I'm talking about here) and was still the coolest game I've ever played-you're a scholar, gentleman and a Boss (if those Fallout premier shots are anything to go by), thanks for being the creator of one of the most subversive and fun games of my young adult life but also for being an open-eyed and positive influence in a modern era of increasing clannishness. You rock! \m/

I just found you and your channel yesterday, and man, I'm so glad I did. I'm a huge fan of Fallout, and watching your videos (about Fallout and other stuff) warms my heart. You have such an awesome, down-to-earth way of sharing your thoughts. I love how you explain lore drift and why it is inevitable/okay. I can't wait to watch more!

I stumbled across your channel when you spoke about the Fallout TV show and have found your stories + commentary excellent. Thanks!

I read “love drift” and clicked wondering if Tim was alright

I really like how down to earth you are with everything.

Found your channel a few weeks back and have been binging on your videos. Awesome to hear these stories straight from you.

I'm so glad I found your channel like a year ago. Been loving these "talks" we all need a guide in this world. ❤

Wow! With your Conan example I realize just how much of my favorite media has lore drift. Since the show dropped this was the first i'd heard the term and while i understood it, i couldn't directly tie it to anything! Thank you as always!

the duality of an adaptation "do you bend the lore to make sense of a story OR mold a story to fit an established lore!"

@Syaniiti

3 ай бұрын

Limitations are good, the story should fit the lore. You can break the lore as long as you explain how the thing you did was possible, thus creating new lore but changing fundamental things about the lore makes the IP not be the IP you paid good money for (or in the case of public domain not be what people wanted it to be).

@juicejooos

3 ай бұрын

For my taste you can change a lot IF the change is traded for just as good if not more story beats and developments. Otherwise you're losing the original charm AND failing on the delivery of what you're trying to set up.

@stuartmorley6894

3 ай бұрын

​@@SyaniitiI think it depends on the medium. I'm thinking specifically of Fallout because that's prescient but I think you can generalize a bit. A TV show is an adaptation. It has to adapt, it's impossible to follow the lore 100%, especially when a game series is set up so open ended. You follow the lore where you can but fundamentally you are trying to tell an interesting and engaging story. That's far more important than sticking to it totally and having a faithful but dull TV series that's only good for spotting Easter eggs.

@braydoxastora5584

3 ай бұрын

2nd one every time

@AthleticHobo-br4qh

3 ай бұрын

Don't forget the 3rd option: change the lore to fit the limitations of the game engine.

Hi from the russian fan sector.)) I just viewed series to the end and absolutely agree Timothy's point. In light language, a very good series! Visuals, actor's playing, camera, dramatic act, soundtrack. Fan bros, look at picture in whole view: it is a great work, that distribute our loving GameWorld to the RealWorld! With love and peace, Ilia "uncle Eli" Karnauhov.)

I cant tell you how much I enjoy listening to you! I didnt even care that much about Fallout or game design before I got recommended your channel but it's really interesting listening to you talk. Very calming too. Big ups

I'm interested to learn what you think about them moving Shady Sands so close to LA To me this is the biggest problem so far. I even like the idea of this medicine to delay the moment ghouls become feral.

@evgeniygerkus9242

3 ай бұрын

I feel like it was unnecessary as well. Maybe they wanted those buildings to be around the crater for cinematic purpose, but in my opinion, empty brahmin pastures and barns would create an even bigger impact.

@zhulikkulik

3 ай бұрын

@@evgeniygerkus9242 they could also just leave it as Boneyard and it wouldn't change anything for the show. AFAIK, it was also one of the biggest NCR cities and even had medical university. Also, cars on the edge of the crater made me cringe. It wasn't an earthquake and ground came down, it was a damn nuke! There should be nothing in a few miles radius standing around the hole that big that has no roots/basement or isn't put there after the explosion.

@evgeniygerkus9242

3 ай бұрын

@@zhulikkulik Also, I'm still curious why Hank decided to only nuke Shady Sands. He spent enough time on the surface to learn of other city states getting in the way of Vault Tec and their plan to rebuild the world according to their design.

@AHungryHunky

3 ай бұрын

​Hank is a middle manager in a power trip. Don't expect every move he makes to be the most intelligent or well considered. As the Ghoul said "this kid used to pick up my wife's dry cleaning" Hank is only a "somebody" because of the experiment of Vaults 31,32 and 33 and even then, while not explicitly stated I get the feeling from the text convo between Norm and Vault 31, that "Bud" the roomba is Hank and Betty's Superior. He answers, to a brain on a roomba. Anyone that's ever worked a coorperate job with an absurdly long chain of command will have experienced a Hank in their lives. He even pulled the classic "Middle Manager" move of "My peons are not listening to my insane demands! I'm going to go tell MY boss!" It's the only reason the Ghoul let him live, because the Ghoul is very interested in meeting Hank's boss.

@evgeniygerkus9242

3 ай бұрын

@@AHungryHunky do you think Moldaver interrogated Hank and managed to get anything out of him concerning Vault Tec's nuclear arsenal?

Hey Tim, I think something I am curious about that I haven't really seen anyone else discuss is how the "Master" would effect Vault 33 from the show. To my understanding of Fallout 1 the Master prioritized vault-dwellers to become super mutants and he would have been close by to Vault 33. I don't know if a question like this warrants a whole video but from my own understanding if this is the case then it is something I would like to see more people discuss and see different perspectives on.

@VORASTRA

3 ай бұрын

Master didn't even know the location of vault 13

@zhulikkulik

3 ай бұрын

@@VORASTRAwhich was hidden in the mountains. Nobody knows about it.

@skanderbeg152

3 ай бұрын

I think this is really the biggest incompatibility between the show and the games, and was done for the sake of a better setting for the show. Other fallout sources have said there are other vaults in the LA area (i heard the fallout bible says that) and i think it just has to be accepted that the master ignored these vaults for some reason.

@brewdaly1873

3 ай бұрын

Well we know that vault 31 had at least one nuke. That could be a pretty big deterrent to leaving those vaults alone.

This was a super interesting video, it's great to hear your thoughts on everything regarding those other series, the concept itself, and also are done much deserved dunking on people who really do probably need to go take a nap Thanks Tim

That "Book version and movie version" seems like a really good mentality to have, I'll try to use it going forward, thanks!

I'm sure you've played a lot of different games but at least professionally, you have an obvious affinity for the RPG. Are there any other genres that interest you, that you'd maybe like to dip your toes in for a one-off experimental project if you had the time? Or, more controversially, are there any genres that you find it difficult to understand the appeal of?

@gogongagis3395

3 ай бұрын

Commenting for the bump - I’d love to see Tim answer this one.

@grahamstoner

3 ай бұрын

Imagine if Tim was a Master rank in Street Fighter 6.

@zhulikkulik

3 ай бұрын

@@grahamstoner imagine Tim making a "boomer-shooter"

Concerning the ghoul, I'm mostly curious if they have faster regen with the small radiation in the air or something. Fallout (post 3) has shown that ghouls do regen in high levels of radiation. Maybe the show did a variant of that?

Really enjoying & appreciating your videos, Tim, thank you! I think the concept you’re echoing here is genetic drift, defined approximately as “the change in trait frequency, in a population, over time.” Definitely feels analogous!

This was perfect, and excellent in your descriptions. Thank you.

Mr cain I just wanna say your advice here got me thinking. I have been a bit immature and I'm going to fix that. thank you.

Tim, these thumbsnails are drifting closer and closer to the "one does not simply walk into Mordor" meme by the day. 😄

So Tim is salty as well for that kid in the fridge. We feel you, Tim.

I didn’t mind the ghoul stuff, i honestly think it’s a cool addition, i just can’t wrap my head around the thinking of having shady sands fall before the events of new vegas

I think the part of ghouls not needing water nor food isn't canon, or at least it isn't anymore, if I remember correctly one of the writers of Fo4 explain that the sidequest of the ghoul kid was more of a joke quest, cause there's more evidence in those game that ghouls need to eat and drink water, I guess the current canon is that they´re more resilience than humans.

@erraticonteuse

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, I always find it funny when people take every quest to be permanently lore-defining or breaking no matter what the tone of that quest is. Tim also mentioned in his video on New Game+ that he didn't really intend for aliens to be canon in Fallout, he just thought it was funny to have a crashed spaceship with a velvet Elvis painting, but now everyone assumes the existence of aliens to be canon (and Bethesda gave them a DLC).

I always liked how old Star Trek had a new ship/crew and even time for each session, kind of helps to super remove each new show from the old one. I like the idea of keeping the 'world' but using new characters, small details can change as long as you keep the spirt. I think you hit a lot more problems if you want to keep the same 'hero' or characters, the more separation you have the more room you have to do new things & not conflict with old lore.

Thx Tim! I enjoyed the discussion about lore drift. I appreciate when the drift is tied back into source material (like the introduction of some kind of virus, environment adaptation, really any narrative development) when it’s tied back into source material the drift seems to retain a little more of it’s original DNA.

there's that riddle from George RR Martin: in Gone With The Wind how many children does Scarlett O'Hara have, since in the book she has 3 children, and in the movie she has 1 and his answer is none since she doesn't exist, so both are equally wrong

I don't understand why I'm not seeing people mention that this special ghoul drug could just be something new. It's been several years since the earlier games, and some ghouls have been alive quite a while. Maybe some of them finally worked out a method to maintain their humanity. New things are invented between media installments all the time.

@iphoneShothand

3 ай бұрын

@@agodelianshock9422read the comment you responded to again slowly and you’ll get your answer 😂

@EtherealHaunting

3 ай бұрын

@@agodelianshock9422 Just as Tim suggested, the technology was always there, just no one realised the drug had this impact on ghouls - it wasn't designed and marketed as "anti feral drug" it could be anything, but at some point someone tested it out and realised it works - and it would be hard to test since you'd need someone who either was almost feral or already feral (it's a bit unclear how far ghouls can go)

@AssailantLF

3 ай бұрын

People don't mention that because it was clearly just contrived/bad writing with no precedent in any of the games. But Fallout lore has been kinda inconsistent since Bethesda took over, and it was always a silly universe that didn't take itself too seriously, so the convenient ghoul-transformation-drug didn't bother me that much.

@funki4896

3 ай бұрын

It could be a placebo too

@rbpierce8151

3 ай бұрын

​@@AssailantLF So what, any story beat or plot line that wasn't already previously established is bad or lazy writing? The idea of a ghoul drug was introduced with Hancock in F4...it's how he became a ghoul. Whether or not this is related to the drug in the show that Thaddeus takes, or the serum Cooper is taking to prevent becoming feral, we don't know. It's an unanswered question. Unanswered questions aren't bad or lazy writing, especially in an ongoing story. They're kind of the engine that drives a story forward. Let them cook, and reserve judgment for when the story is over.

I think Dune and Conan are a bit different to lore changes in Fallout because the movies are completely separate entities to the books, whereas the Fallout series takes place in the same world and whatever lore changes happen in it will likely become canon in the game world too.

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

Fortunately I don't think anyone's under the illusion that the next Fallout game will be worth playing

@elobiretv

3 ай бұрын

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman I was really hoping that with Microsoft owning Obsidian and Bethesda we might see Obsidian making more Fallout games but I doubt if that's ever going to happen.

Great video as always Tim!!! Your wisdom knows no bounds!!

Tim, thank you for explaining these concepts. Hopefully that helps part of the community recalibrate their expectations to be more realistic. Keep up the great work!

When I was young I was really mad when lore drift happened. Then I stopped being mad because I realized that lore drift is not just a recent thing, its been happening since forever and some of my favorite pieces of work are not actually original but an iteration on something created earlier. As it turned out sometimes I like a new iteration and sometimes I don't, nothing to be mad about. And definitely nothing is "ruined" by any kind of new iteration.

@Jetiix

3 ай бұрын

I disagree, you can be mad if a change retroactively negates something that had emotional value to you, like if suddenly there was a new star trek movie that offhandedly stated no vulkans were allowed on the bridge of federation ships, it would contradict previous media, and also would clash with its own world logic so much that it would have to explain away many more things before anyone could accept it, except for new watchers who would assume it's always been like that. When super mutants in fallout 3 and 4 were reduced from capable, intelligent, complex characters with defined motivations and amibtions, who you could have deep conversations (Marcus, the master and his non irradiated underlings), to tougher raiders with green skin, who loved killing and gore with no deeper analysis of their character. The super mutant is then *ruined* because its only purpose is to be shot at, not to be thought about.

When it comes to ghouls needing food and water, i always just assumed they do need it, but not as much or as often. The only thing that breaks this lore (as far as I know) is "Kid in a Fridge," which I throw into the camp of wacky, not lore consistent, random encounters in Fallout 2.

Love these, Tim. Keep em coming!

Tim... I can't express the immense appreciation I have for you and videos like this.

Im of the mind set that lore should be respected but is not sacrosanct. We have people in the current day and age debate real life lore everyday, the idea that game lore is inviolable is crazy. There is a line somewhere between what changes are okay and whats maybe too far and its hard to determine where that is. A change isn't always a bad thing.

My new head canon is that Prevagen prevents ghouls from going feral

@dawert2667

3 ай бұрын

I would literally scream if it turns out that its just anti-asthma medication and the ghoul has asthma lmao

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

We could say it's Mentats, since those actually seem to do something

@imightbebiased9311

3 ай бұрын

It's the power of friendship that prevents it.

Tim hit 100k subs just a week or two ago and he’s already at 118k! Amazing! Thanks for putting in the effort to make these videos, keep ‘em coming!

I've never seen Tim so fired up. I love it! :)

War... war never changes but lore does

First time I've ever seen a video say "Posted Seconds ago"

@wesss9353

3 ай бұрын

Usual he uploads at 8 am east coast time. I'll watch on lunch break

Love your videos Tim! Keep them coming!

That shirt is awesome Tim. That side rant at 8 minutes is spot on too, with a perfect example 😄

I always think about lore as just another thing that serves the story you’re trying to tell, and for me, story is king. In the fallout TV show, adding that ghouls need a drug to stay non-feral added a layer of vulnerability to the Ghoul which was essential for the reversal of power between Lucy and the Ghoul which was needed to setup Lucy’s “I may look like you, but I’ll never be like you” moment which was such a perfect crystallization of her character. Obviously there’s a limit to how much you can tweak without making the audience think that there are no consequences for things anymore (e.g. the emperor still being alive in the new Star Wars movies) but if a tweak to the lore can help provide strong character moments or better highlight a theme, then I’m all for giving new writers the power to change things. Love these videos by the way, Tim. Thanks for entertaining me while I eat my breakfast every day.

@PsilocybePsientist

3 ай бұрын

" but if a tweak to the lore" Annihilating's the NCR + Shady Sands + Invalidating all of Fallout NV is not a little teensy weensy tweak to the lore. It's spreading the lore's legs wide open and going to town on it with no thought to the protestations being made

@hypocriticalsatire3966

3 ай бұрын

​@@PsilocybePsientist This widespread understanding of the chalkboard timeline kinda lost its legs a week or so ago

@niox1920

3 ай бұрын

@@PsilocybePsientist the NCR was falling apart in New Vegas.

@IlIlllIIIllIIlIIlII

3 ай бұрын

@@PsilocybePsientist 2 of the possible endings to New Vegas have you nuking the NCR to oblivion. What would you say if Bethesda had chosen one of those as the canon ending? That's not even tweaking the lore at all. This isn't Game of Thrones. We're not dealing with a single writer creating a historiography for his life's work. My point is that writers should not be bound to every little detail that precedes them, especially in a setting for a video game that allows multiple wildly different endings.

We do see Cooper Howard eating and drinking water in the show, so I guess that the TV show went back to the earlier lore about Ghouls needing food and water.

@acfan9384

3 ай бұрын

They eat and drink in all of the games too, but some ghouls might have mutated from the radiation and not need food or water

@AHungryHunky

3 ай бұрын

​@acfan9384 I think they might be capable of hibernation for long periods where they don't need food or water, but if they are "active" they do. We see it with the Kid in the Fridge, Coffin Willie, The Ghoul, and basically every Feral to inhabit all the dark corners. If ghouls didn't need to eat at all, then Ferals wouldn't have that base need to assault anything that looks like sustenance. Ultimately it's a video game though and it needs to be fun more than anything else, so if ghouls truly do not need to eat they still make a terrifying enemy. It might also explain how characters like the Ghoul and the Kid in the Fridge can remain confined for decades without losing their minds.

@zhulikkulik

3 ай бұрын

@@AHungryHunkyi think hibernation is the most sensible answer. Bethesda showed multiple times that feral ghouls just pretend to be dead until you come close enough to attack you.

@AHungryHunky

3 ай бұрын

​@@zhulikkulikThat's what inspired the theory. In Fallout 4 and 76 we find ferals in places people have not entered since the bombs dropped and often these ghouls will curl up in a dark corner or under or in a small space. The examples we see of Non-Feral ghouls surviving long periods without any known source of food or water are similar scenarios where they are crammed into small, dark places. There are a few instances of ferals behaving the same way in daylight, but they are very few and could be written off as normal sleep or rest. Obviously in games prior to 4 ghouls don't behave this way due to limited animations and programable behaviors. There are a lot of unexplored questions around Ghouls, and they are probably one of the more interesting things about Fallout as a whole. Like Tim said, what is Harold? We see an intelligent glowing one in New Vegas, and again in Nuka World. Why is that so rare? We will never have all the answers because the real answer is "because it is cool" but it's more fun to theorize than it is to crap all over things.

@skanderbeg152

3 ай бұрын

In FO4 i just came across a random encounter where a ghoul was dying until i gave her some water. So i dont the lore ever changed, more just the ghoul in the fridge was a bad oversight. Unless 3 has some obvious examples of ghouls not needing water. Edit: okay i actually really like the hibernation theory, and think it fits amazingly and makes sense.

I’ve been a fan of your work for like a decade at this point, and I just found out recently about your channel. I’ve learned so much about what makes coding interesting. I’m only learning simple R-based scripts and code for statistics, but some of the way you approach the topics helps me reframe how I look at coding. It’s not as daunting as it used to be. Once I get R handled, I plan on going into Python and C# to build a toolkit for marketability

Best thing to listen to at work. You rock Tim

I honestly think some Lore Changes have been quite good. Yes, even from Bethesda. I liked the Power Armor Generator Changes because it makes much more sense for an America desperate and inefficient in resources and power. Another change that I liked was that the Enclave was a Pre-War Secret Society, and their post-war Scorch Plague Bioweapon. All super cool.

@Fuk99999

3 ай бұрын

The enclave was always a pre war secret society. It wasn’t strictly the US government.

Early video. Nice! 1:18 Tokyo Drift: an ok movie with a great refreshing setting imo!

I found this channel in my recommendations a few months ago, and it's been an absolute treasure trove. I'm not even halfway through the back catalog but everything's been pretty great so far. I don't usually like KZread's algorithm, but when it hits, it really hits. I used to be pretty anal about "lore breaking" in the past, but frankly after the show's announcement I stopped caring so much, seeing how some people get so aggressive about it. To me at least, lore drift is only really an issue if it invalidates/breaks older stories. Otherwise it doesn't really bother me much. You already brought up the Necropolis plot with the water pump in the video, which is one of the instances where I think lore drift really broke something, since obviously that plot doesn't work if ghouls don't need water. An instance of lore drift that I don't think breaks anything is Jet being pre-war as of Fallout 4. It does change the context of the plot with Myron and the Mordino family in Fallout 2, but it doesn't necessarily break it - Myron is already a complete egotistical scumbag, lying about inventing Jet is totally in-character for him. Then there are really minor instances of lore drift which either don't affect much at all, or are so easily resolvable it's not even an issue. Power Armor requiring fusion cores as of Fallout 4(can't these co-exist with the TX-28 microfusion packs mentioned in the first Fallout? Surely there are multiple power sources a suit could run off of?) and T-60 power armor being better than T-51(Fallout 76 of all games resolved this by just changing their stats so they're sidegrades to each other. Not a big deal whatsoever) Despite this, I've still seen a ton of people get extremely angry over these two changes in particular, despite them being really minor and not breaking any existing plots. I have a whole list of problems with the way Bethesda handles the series, but some of y'all need to chill.

It's a great day when Uncle Tim uploads, love these vids

If power armor can fly, why don’t they just jump out of the helicopter instead of being wenched down?

@surprisedchar2458

3 ай бұрын

Have you seen the price of gas lately?

@erraticonteuse

3 ай бұрын

A jet pack can drive you up from the ground, but it can't slow you down enough if you're falling from higher than it could push you off the ground.

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

@@erraticonteuse A quite sensible answer, other than the part where the game where the jet packs are from makes it clear you can jump right off the roof of a skyscraper in power armor and be fine, jet pack or not.

@moonlightingjam

3 ай бұрын

Jet packs probably consume a lot of energy, and I've seen some theories floating around that fusion cores are becoming rare, hence why everyone is after that new power source.

@niox1920

3 ай бұрын

@@ULTRAOutdoorsman in the game fusion cores also run out in 5 minutes

I look at it like this: If I dont like the changes they've made to the lore, I'm not being forced to watch/play/read it, I can just choose not to partake in that, I could be missing out on something good and thats fine, plenty of other things to consume, but what I am definitely missing out on is getting upset over something trivial and thats well worth missing out on.

@andrewmoluf4299

3 ай бұрын

Yes that is entirely sensible but this is the internet

They really crossed a line for me when they gave Conan a talk show.

Very Professional statement, Sir. Thank you to be a Senpai by flashing a beacon of light to help us find our guidance. Wished my Professors from my college where atlast this motivatet to explain (themselves) and teach/ show a different perspektive of the world at the same time.

I dont know Tim when you write something about the lore it should at least make some sense big companies causing the great war didnt make any sense to me

@Unknown33741

2 ай бұрын

I think it makes sense, they wanted control of the new world. Vault Tec and the Enclave had preparations for post-nuclear America, and were ready to enact it. You don’t think greedy corporations make just as much sense as governments for causing the bombs to drop?

I've played nearly every Fallout game and I've always believed that ghouls were made via radiation. I honestly can't recall when or where FEV came into the conversation. As far as ferals, yeah I've made comments talking about nobody knows why they go feral or if ghouls can even go feral; like some people just go feral and others don't. As far as the show goes, it's still unexplained. We don't know what the drug is (and it IS a lore change, but since the games don't explain much about ghouls and their going feral, the show CAN do this. We can choose to accept it or not.) or why it keeps ghouls from going feral. My question is, why did THE Ghoul slurp it up like a drug and waste a bunch of it? How long does it last? Is it actually a mind altering, addictive substance for the ghouls but ALSO prevents them from goibg feral? Sometimes, introducing new lore elements just creates way too many questions and TV shows are a STUPID medium to do this unless you answer the questions quickly. Sure, these things may get answered in season 2, but in the mean time the questions are being asked and the collective internet finds flaws in any possible logic. Anyway, the show is dumb for many other reasons than ghouls.

@ULTRAOutdoorsman

3 ай бұрын

agreed with all

Really well thought out, thank you for the video!

I think some other lore tidbits are a little more relevant than a few details about a ghoul's biology. such as Lucy's vault being right across the street from the Master's cathedral, or that Vault Tec's entire cryogenic freezing plan coming at odds with vault 111's entire premise.

Such a polite way of saying "retcon." Stop acting like retcon is the evil disingenuous thing. It is what it is.

There’s lore drift and there’s throwing your design documents into the garbage

@exilestudios9546

3 ай бұрын

Which is something hasn't ever done since well they are obsessed with bringing even the worst ideas from the fallout Bible into canon.

@kyleegan2830

3 ай бұрын

I don’t know how rubber stamping literally everything is any better

Love the videos, they are becoming a lunchtime tradition, I don't know why lol

Ah yes vehicle lore. It is implied in FNV and 4 that people are using vehicles, and it’s outright stated in 76 that they are. Wish we could have one for lore friendly fast travel.

@andrewmoluf4299

3 ай бұрын

That would be great, I got so used to morrowind travel that in Skyrim I only used carriages or running lol

That Snake oil salesman reminded me of Myron, at least aesthetically. My head canon is, that he's a descendant of Myron. I think it's fun for lore to change or evolve, which could be a better word. As long as it's fun and doesn't create any glaring contradictions, lore can change. 😊

@Chinothebad

3 ай бұрын

Considering Myron had visitors from the Cat's Paw or from the streets from the dime roll of Mordinos that legit did not like him despite their profession, it would make for a valid head canon.

Lore drift can be absolutely bad. An example is the 'Kid in a Fridge' quest in Fallout 4. A kid is locked in a fridge for 200 years without food or water to last and turns into a ghoul but doesn't die? The premise is bad, the change is bad, it upends major plot points (the Necropolis water pump) & worldbuilding, for absolutely no benefit If Ghouls don't need food or water and live off radiation why can't I recruit only Ghouls to my settlement and not have to grow food & get water? why are the ghouls in FO3 drinking the FEV poisoned water if they don't need it?

@renaigh

3 ай бұрын

Why can Dean Domino suck the Cloud like it's nothing when it isn't made entirely of Radiation? Why are there so many bits of food lying around the Villa when Dean would have surely eaten it all by the time the Courier arrives, oh wait! I've figured it out. It's Because It Doesn't Fucking Matter! Dead Money is still a masterpiece of storytelling regardless of whether or not Dean needs to scoff down a fancy lad cake every couple hours.

@RedPiece0601

3 ай бұрын

absolutely unplayable 😢

@hengineer

3 ай бұрын

I would be interested if radiation affects different people in different ways. E.g. some might need water some might not.

@surprisedchar2458

3 ай бұрын

@@renaigh Dead Money was decent writing that was strangled by bad gameplay.

@Dragoncam13

3 ай бұрын

There's no confirmation that Billy was in the fridge for 200 plus Years though,could've been much more recent

Thank you for your work and attempting to be a voice of reason.

I knew Ghouls were coming up. A bonus was that Arnold voice and the santa toddler

A pretty minor oversight in the show, but I wonder how you feel about how The Master in Fallout 1 never found Vault 33? Especially considering how obvious it is.

@PsilocybePsientist

3 ай бұрын

This alone invalidates the entirety of the tv show. even if you want to say the master didnt find them in the half century he was operating, the enclave sure as shit went around and finished the jobs on the vaults.

@Spooklord_Nito

3 ай бұрын

@@PsilocybePsientist I pretty much agree, it's just I'm kinda willing to let it slide, even as a Fallout 1 fanboy. It is nuts tho because it's aboveground and right next to Venice Beach lmao

Uncle Tim, you're a vault of knowledge I'll see myself out

Also interested in where the show goes thanks for the video and your insight Tim always appreciated

In fallout New Vegas I got the impression that ionizing radiation sustains ghouls like a kind of regenerative nutrient. Which explained the quest where you can help a group of ghouls to go into space aboard rocketships, since the unshielded cosmic radiation would be enough to sustain them. They could be wrong about that of course. But it seemed like a neat explanation at the time.