So how much kinetic energy is needed? That's the question

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly the right question. It unfortunately depends on the broadhead used, the arrow used, the FOC of the arrow, and the shaft diameter, and even the spine of the arrow. I hope we can shed some light on this very thing in the future. Probably starting with pigs first, since we can test on them all year long, and there are plenty of them!

@platinumpursuitoutdoors

3 жыл бұрын

Love the video and the time and effort you put into it!! Thx! I have a couple questions… Do you guys have the numbers calculated for all distances? Ex. 20,30,40 etc? I get 60 shows us a drop in KE as would be expected comparing heavy vs light, but in the whitetail woods the chances of taking a 60 yard shot is SLIM. The shot consistency in the video backs that up with a few leg hits and misses. Most of the THP shots are within 30 so what are those numbers? The lighter arrow still held 66.2 KE @60yards… which still seems great, especially for a fixed blade. But how much did it hold/ drop at 30 yards? If you are shooting a fixed blade and reaching 70KE @30 yards and have a much flatter/ faster shooting arrow, would you would or why wouldn’t you guys choose that? At what point does the heavier weight become overkill for whitetail? Thx, again great video!

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

@@platinumpursuitoutdoors The fall off in velocity with downrange distance is linear - which means whatever the fall off in velocity is between 0 and 60 yards, take half of that fall off and subtract if from the launch velocity. That will be your velocity at 30 yards. Then calculate the KE at 30 based on 1/2 m*V*V. Does that make sense?

@jeffmichel4312

3 жыл бұрын

@@DigtoDef if it explodes on impact in needs to be 2,000 FPS eh?

@ThatJamesGuy88

3 жыл бұрын

@Darrel Barnette, going back to your earlier video/podcast-I think the best answer is whatever gives you the momentum to cause immediate lethal damage at the animal.

As an engineer I love these experiments. I would like to add the following thing to think about. Unlike a gun, kinetic energy is not what kills with a bow and arrow. As a point of reference, a 22 LR has around 120 ft lbs of kinetic energy, which is higher than all the arrows in the test. What kills is the blade of the broadhead cutting vitals, and the cut comes from the arrow penetrating through the animal, and what carries the arrow through the animal is MOMENTUM. Measuring KE as a point of reference to see how it errodes down range is fine, but when judging the lethality of an arrow, it is the momentum that matters. The impact of bullets cause trama that kills, and the penetration of arrows cause hemorrhaging that kills.

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

Caleb, I talk about momentum and energy in the roundtable video preceding this one. Good comment.

@ampifer

3 жыл бұрын

As an Eng. I would have to agree, momentum is the killer. I am not sure why we are focusing in KE, we are not trying to knockdown the buck. One thing, I think can be included for future experiments is the fact that the limiting factor here is the reaction time of the animal, not the KE reaching the animal. I have never not pass through a Whitetail. I have however missed the deer completely because the area of the target is reduced from and elevated position. Note: I shot 70 lbs 300 spine and 125 on the front. 4 fletch. And my arrows are bare shaft tuned. Thank you great stuff.

@nathanbailey9153

3 жыл бұрын

As a mathematician, I would like to point out that if you have the mass of the arrow and the KE, then it is trivial to calculate the momentum since they are both (unsurprisingly) directly derived from mass and velocity. That said, it's just a number that gives us a relative idea of how well a given broadhead will penetrate through flesh and bone. Honestly, KE or momentum are equally useful, and KE gives us a number more people are intuitively comfortable with. Like someone pointed out, the real question is how much KE (or momentum) is required for the arrow to penetrate sufficiently for an effective kill.

@ampifer

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathanbailey9153 the issue is when hunters want to increase KE by reducing the weight of the arrow. it is like shooting yourself on the foot. Lowering one variable (m) to increase the other (v), this won't help. At least with the Momentum the relationship is not square: M=mxV. Kinetic Energy: Ke=1/2 m x v2. A cotton ball with high KE won't kill a deer. unless maybe if you hit him in the eye or something lol. good discussion, Again the limiting factor is the reaction time of the deer(~ 0.2 sec) that's the only reason why KE has any meaning. The arrow has to get to the location you aim to before the deer has a chance to get out the way. The speed of sound is 1,125 ft/s, so the sound will get to the deer even before the arrow is out of the bow, so the arrow just needs to get to the deer before, he has time to move out of the way.

@timbow50

3 жыл бұрын

Kinetic energy is a value for reference. In reality the " idea of physical kinetic energy" ceases to exist at the instant of point contact with the target.

According to this chart there does not appear to be a lot of different in KE at 60 until the arrow weight gets above 627 grains and the arrow weight gets below 473 grains, specific to this chart. The only thing that seems to change at any noticeable different is arrow speed. Scratching my head on whats all the confusion about ! It seems to me just dont shoot a really light arrow and on the flip side you dont have to shoot a super heavy arrow as well. Shoot a reasonable weight arrow based on the game you are hunting that gives you the best arrow flight possible out of your bow setup. Great content thanks to all involved !

@huntingpublicnz

2 жыл бұрын

I shoot 70 pounds and 510 grain 300 spine arrows. And its an absolute hammer.

@DaveWirth

2 жыл бұрын

This is the most logical comment.

@brianwebb9121

Жыл бұрын

AND their TEST was on a stationary animal that wasn't on HIGH ALERT. I concur with your statement. I'm equally stressing the speed of the arrow getting to the weary game, with the most amount of speed, and middle of the range of deadly KE. With that being said the numbers appear to me to suggest that a 480-500 grain arrow is noticeably faster with similar deadly KE of the 600 grain slow arrows at 60 yards.

Im glad this stuff is being taken in by a far larger audience than I have. Ive been preaching this stuff for a very long time but not enough viewers to have seen it. Your large subscriber list puts this in front of WAY more bowhunters than I have been able to reach. This was well presented.

@jaredjohnson2368

3 жыл бұрын

I watched your "Eventually the arrow gets there" video and it describes the same concept as this video. This is awesome stuff! I would live to really see a wider range of arrow weights and bow poundage to see if there is some sort of "Sweet Spot."

The work you guys are doing on sharpening broadheads, turkey conservation, and heavy arrows, will improve hunting for years and years. Not to mention recalibrating why hunting is important. Thank you guys!

I really appreciate RF and THP making the effort to turn speculation into science.

Im feeling comfortable with my arrow setup shooting a 465 grain arrow after watching this, so thanks to everyone involved. My arrows flew great bare shafted and fletched out of my bow and my arrow weight came in around 465 grains. I noticed on the chart that 609 grain arrow and a 473 grain arrow the KE was only 1.5 different at 60 yards. ( 609 grain arrow KE 51.9 and 473 grain arrow KE 50.4 at 60 yards), so almost identical. The drop in velocity with the 609 grain arrow was 14 fps and the drop in the 473 grain arrow was 15 FPS, so almost identical. However, the only noticeable different was the FPS faster on the 473 grain arrow. A lot of the conversation centered around people shooting a 350 grain arrow, which to me is not a reasonable arrow weight to shoot at whitetails. Excellent video with great content ! I have really enjoyed this series.

I love these videos where y’all are just sitting around talking. It seem like a hunting camp vibe and y’all are laying down some extremely valuable information. Awesome stuff guys!

I never thought I would be so enthralled by THP videos that were not actual hunting videos. Great info and presentation for the average Joe’s. You guys are awesome!

im a arrow geek and this is the greatest share of knowledge i have ever came across. ive stumbled through the Ashby files, ive been down the rabbit hole. I've been steady at 550-650 for 8yrs now. but the loss of energy at long distance was always a question i never attempted to answer. Thank you Troy

Can we get a Ranch Fairy laugh ring tone please? Love that guy.

What would be interesting to see is if you guys made up some sort of impact board that read the impact energy Between all of those setups. From 15 yd to 60 yd.

Would you guys just fletch a phone pole and be done with it

@JVR-gd7zw

3 жыл бұрын

3 or 4 fletch, and what offset. Maybe helical.

The information you guys provide throughout each season is very helpful and interesting! Keep doin' what you do!

I just wanted to say thank you, to you guys. I have learned more about arrow flight in the last few months than the last 30yrs. Darrel, Troy you take a very complex subject and make it elegant. THP you guy emulate my own reactions to seeing my arrow flight vastly improve. Thank you!

I really enjoyed watching this, I like learning anything that can help me to improve my setup this has been a big help.

Rocket mans chill asf great job on this series learned a lot!!!

Thank you. Very interesting to be able to really see it measured with that equipment and put to paper.

@paulclarke5515

3 жыл бұрын

Jake's back on the couch playing with his rocket. Thinking hurry up warb🤣

I think this gives a better argument to shooting the 472 grain arrow in Hayden’s setup. Yes the 472 grain arrow loses 11lbs of KE vs 7lbs of KE of the 708 grain arrow at 60 yards. But there is only a 5.5lbs of KE difference at 60 yards between the 2 arrows. That 708 grain arrow will drop close to 3 feet lower than the 472 grain arrow at 60 yards. If you are off 1 yard in your estimate, you have wounded or missed the animal. Ultimately at that distance, accuracy is key. You have far more room for error with the 472 grain arrow and in my opinion at longer ranges that 5.5lbs of KE doesnt outweigh the amount of arrow drop of a moderately heavy arrow.

@weekender38

3 жыл бұрын

AMEN Matt Vess

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

Great comment. We weren't trying to advocate for a particular weight arrow, but instead we were trying to provide information to help people make better decisions about what equipment will best suite their needs. I apologize if that didn't come across in the videos.

@mattvess2174

3 жыл бұрын

Darrel Barnette , this is great info and I feel like THP and RF could make a series of videos from it. And it’s also great to have someone with your expertise on here. I was just surprised there was no one that took the data and gave the argument I gave above.

@ryanking7117

2 жыл бұрын

Yes exactly. There’s a reason these boys don’t shoot anything past 30 yards. They can’t. I’m not knocking thp, love their videos but ranch fairy is delusional with his “adult arrow” if somebody is hunting in North America with the exception of moose or bear, a 400-500 grain arrow with be so much faster and have a far better arc in a real world application than anything heavier than that I wouldn’t shoot anything even close to 500 grains because you start losing a lot of speed past that. Speed equals time of flight and like they even said animals move, I think they proved themselves wrong with this video. It does not take 100 ft lbs to get a pass through on a deer. I have shot many deer with 400 grains and less and the only times I haven’t gotten a pass through were both spine shots. Literally

Excellent content guys, keep it coming!

This video was AWESOME. So many questions answered.

Thank's guys, really enjoyed this.

When is the Hunting Public shirt version: "Science - It's like magic but real" shirt coming out?

I appreciate your efforts. Science wins every time. I don't want to be the buddy living in his mom's basement but I do shoot a light arrow and I have taken 2 bull moose, a bull elk, and multiple mule deer at long range with a light arrow and a small broadhead (Shuttle T). You touched on something very important just before the 18 minute mark regarding accuracy. My trajectory is very flat and if I miss judge the distance by a yard or two, it doesn't matter. Extreme heavy arrows would miss the animal completely. You have to find a balance of trajectory, down range energy, accuracy, and overall performance if you want to hunt ethically at longer ranges. Not everybody is capable of hunting animals at longer range. It takes intimate knowledge of your equipment, tons of practice, and an extreme amount of confidence.

@1yanny1

3 жыл бұрын

I have taken bull moose at 84 yards and 71 yards. I have taken 6 mule deer between 55 yards and 71 yards. All were taken with similar setups shooting a 360 grain arrow. I had full penetration on both moose. First moose was 71 yards snd I hit ribs dead Center on entry and exit. Second moose at 84 yards missed ribs on entry and exited through the opposite shoulder blade. In no way am I advocating long range shots for most bow hunters. It takes serious commitment. I start a practice session at 60 yards and I only shoot 1 arrow at a time. I work back to 110 yards.

Absolute gold. Thanks so much fellas.

Just got into bow hunting. seeing this video now will save me time researching and building arrows

I need more of these videos. Great information and video. Something you've always have said which I think gets lost among people: "Everyone is different." What you've been preaching is finding the arrow that shoots best for the individual. This is ssssoooooo important to realize. "Give me my arrow back." LOL!! 🤣🤣

Thankyou for doing the speed test that is actually helpful, everyone else seems to measure speed as soon as the arrow leaves the bow

Getting closer and closer to an operational test. From my days working for the Navy, I would guess you need to define a test with the animal carcasses or a representative substitute that explores the results of these arrows trying to penetrate. Maybe you only need the lightest arrow based on the KE, but what if you hit the thickest bone in the shoulder region. I think part of the game here is that you can pretty much add some insurance to your arrow for a little extra money and some velocity. If all shots were broadside and predictable, maybe we have a moot point, but that is not the case.

Really awesome info guys,thanks!!

Momentum. It's easier to slow down a feather moving to 50mph than a train at 50

That’s an awesome science experiment, good info for sure.

I've wanted to do this for decades, but never had the courage to risk my chronograph beyond about 30 yards. Wonderful data. The results are what I hoped for.

Awesome information for us all,thank you.🏹

I was just thinking about this! Wow ! Thank you for asking my question

I would love to see you guys do another test comparing the arrow diameter at long range also. When target shooting I always seem to be more accurate (tighter groups) at long ranges with 5mm arrows, but my main hunting arrows are wider arrows. It would be cool to see the speed and energy difference.

Very good discussion here.

DIY Sportman did a video on this subject too. He pretty much found the same results if I remember right

Great test guys! The kinetic energy really justifies Ranch Fairy's position on arrow weight. I would love to see a couple more variables tested this same way. 1. Stiffness- how much kinetic energy do "twizzlers" loose because of the greater flex in the arrow in flight. Energy is lost with motion in the vertical and horizontal plane (kind of touched on in the end). 2. FOC-for arrows of the same weight How is kinetic energy transferred through high FOC vs low FOC. Both points Ranch Fairy has made in relation to penetration. How much do they also help with kinetic energy before contacting the animal.

This is quality! More of this

Great video for us bow hunters! I’ve shot for over 30 years and never heard guys go so deep into it. 👊🏼👊🏼

Awesome video! This will really help me as I switch to the heavier arrow with higher FOC. Is there a place I can find what setup each bow had? (I.e. DW, DL, etc.)

This is the kinda science I like. Applicable real life stuff. Thanks y’all

Most interesting points i always said it matters more at your max range for hunting than whats at a few yards lol. So glad you guys are doing these tests.

It’s almost like you will never ever reach 100% perfection and this video explains many contributing factors as to why not. Simply do your best

I can only imagine how this is gonna trigger some AT folks.

And that's why I follow you guys religiously cause I love learning the science behind it all

Rocket Man's calculator has way too many buttons on it.

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

And Reverse Polish Notation to boot! :) Sadly that proves I'm a dinosaur

Great video and good work. I will say that there is a clear range in arrow weight, speed and energy that is fairly consistent. The momentum a 500gr arrow creates is probably not greatly different than a 600gr arrow, but the speed and trajectory will be. Most people don't advocate for sub 400gr arrows for hunting but a ton of focus was put on that end of the spectrum. If all or most of your shots are 30-40 in and you don't shoot recreationally out past that, 600gr could be a great setup. If you want a do it all setup for hunting North America, recreational shooting and is as efficient in every aspect that it can be have an arrow that is as heavy that you can with speeds between 270-280fps roughly.

Why I always just shot my aluminum xx75 arrows and a helical for stability on a 125 grain magnus stingers they have killed a ton of deer 1 elk. This was just by my own observations before ranch ferry science. Glad to see some data cool video!

Love all the info, I really do, but at the prices I’m seeing for arrows and broad heads I have to say it will be some time before I could apply what you just taught me. Again, I appreciate the info, just hope to be able to afford to put it into practice some day. 👍🏼

@csoultrain80

3 жыл бұрын

There's plenty of cheaper options out there when building arrows brother! Do some digging or if you need some advice dm me!

Alot of us really appreciate Mr Barnette getting into the weeds on this stuff. This is the stuff that keeps projectile flinging sports fun for me.

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! The comments have been generally favorable - I was a bit nervous about talking too much detail doused with unrelatable babble. Troy is good about jumping in when I go off the rails :)

@saulgood6190

3 жыл бұрын

@@DigtoDef The archery world needs a Bryan Litz. You could do your own videos too, at a engineering level. Its up to the viewer to apply it or leave it after that. Check out a channel called 1nestly, i think you guys would vibe well.

@DigtoDef

3 жыл бұрын

@@saulgood6190 I will check that channel out. I am enjoying the team approach working with Troy. If I started a youtube channel, I might get 100 viewers. But working with Troy and THP, we can reach thousands! My goal is to reach the industry players, working from the bottom up...

Looks like there is a sweet spot that blends speed and KE around 470 grains.

@acanuck3267

3 жыл бұрын

And trajectory.

@bmills231

3 жыл бұрын

Imagine that... lol! Also look at the speed those arrows are shooting out of the bow, 270-280 fps. Trajectory is just another small piece of the puzzle that helps to make a more efficient hunting setup. The momentum a 480gr arrow creates and a 600 grain arrow isn't terribly different. I personally will continue to shoot as heavy of an arrow that I can keeping my arrow speed out of bow roughly between 270-280fps, which usually falls between 490-510gr. Why not have every aspect of your setup as efficient as it can be? The momentum, ke, speed and trajectory are all off the charts on my setup. To me that seems like a no brainer, but to each their own.

@kmhendrickson

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, why does everyone go to extremes, super heavy or super light? Just shoot a medium weight 450-500 grain arrow with decent FOC and you should be good. I’ve killed quite a few Elk with 460 grain arrows going around 280fps, zero issues, always had pass throughs. Personally I wouldn’t want to shoot a 350 grain arrow or a 700 grain arrow.

Guys, that was a great video and super informative! Glad to see you also debunked the whole helical fetch being a parachute and slowing the arrow down debate. It goes to show an arrow with more mass retains the energy from the bow more efficiently downrange where it counts! RF, you need to do more traditional stuff with the Rocketman!👍

@RanchFairy

3 жыл бұрын

Gonna repeat with really light arrows. We don't know yet. WE THINK...but we don't know. WE THINK, since the arrows were upper 500 grains, the fletch can't slow them down as easily. WE THINK.

Great video. You know this is just like comparing the 22-250 to the 308. Speed gets you flat shooting but you need mass if you want distance.

@robertm7848

2 жыл бұрын

Lol that's why you just go 7mm Rem Mag

Like Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds would say, "NERDS!" Very interesting.

@teamflanneloutdoors5631

3 жыл бұрын

Fiona had it goin on in places. We'll leave it at that

Momentum would be an even more interesting picture in my opinion.

I'm 100% on KE/arrow weight/foc etc now. Now I want to see rocket mans thoughts on 3 vs 4 fletch and helical affect on drag/steer with large BH/high FOC and how that affects KE downrange. You guys have prob already done a vid on that.. going to look now!

One thing that was said that is incorrect: The heavier arrows are going to have more energy to start with. That is because the bow is a machine and it's more efficient with heavier arrows. Think of it this way. If you draw your bow and then let it back down, very little of the energy of the bow goes into vibration and noise. If you dry fire a bow, all of the energy goes into vibration and noise and damage. Firing a lighter arrow is closer to dry firing than shooting a heavy one. Bow makers say you have to have at least so many grains per pound. Because if it's too light, the bow can be damaged. There is the exact same amount of energy stored in the bow in either case, but if there's energy available to cause damage to the bow with arrows that are too light, that means the bow didn't transfer all of it to the arrow.

@DigtoDef

2 жыл бұрын

Hopefully it's just a matter of semantics... You of course are correct. However, when I plotted the increase in kinetic energy with arrow mass, the increase in launch KE was relatively small - so for brevity, I usually say that you can assume that the bow is a constant kinetic energy launcher. In the video prior to this one, I state that the gain is about 5% as the arrow mass doubles. If you'd like to look at the data, I plotted the kinetic energy versus arrow mass for several current bows here on slide 39. The discussion starts with slide 37: static1.squarespace.com/static/5d0443b188b6c900011e0ccc/t/5f62266687a3453c5e0de115/1600267899322/Barnette_Arrow+FLight+101.pdf As you can see, with some cams, you don't really see significant gains at all. : I hope this clears everything up - sorry for the confusion.

@BuildItMakeIt

2 жыл бұрын

They talk about this in the previous video. It is true that the heavier arrow has more energy to start with, but it is not a very large difference so for a first order calculation you can assume all arrows come off the bow the same.

Fascinating

Love the Caddy Shack reference when he was trying to aim. It's crazy how *everyone* knows that one.

Love the science boys helps more than you think. God job boys.

The seek one guys use rage and seems like they blow through everything they hit. I just think people are looking for the magic bullet and that's awesome but your never gonna find it. Your gonna have strange things happen every once in awhile no matter what u shoot . I just would think someone like Zack would want more of a flatter trajectory with all the spot and stalk type hunting that he does, incase hes wrong on guessing the distance

@Tughill1699

3 жыл бұрын

They always hunt in pairs so not as hard to range the animal and keep tabs of what’s happening, but in my opinion lightweight or medium weight is the best arrow - I tried all this stuff they are doing now about 20 years ago along many other folks im sure

@mikeharryhunt1709

3 жыл бұрын

@@Tughill1699 so why do u like the lightweight/ medium better?

I have never bow hunted, but I find the science part so fascinating. Good stuff.

Love this data… EPIC!

Very cool video. Very interesting

Awesome stuff.

Cool stuff

KE and arrow speed are great and all but my favorite part of the video is when they talk about accuracy. I “practiced” every day with 400gr arrows when I first started hunting and struggled to shoot 8in groups at 40yds. I thought I was just inexperienced, bad form, etc. season after season. After loading up my arrow to 550gr and stiffer arrow spines 40yd shots became a cake walk. I still have room for improvement but I was amazed how much better my accuracy was after switching arrow setups and love to hear the guys confirm that theory.

Jake is slowly losing his mind in the background of the entire video lol

@christophermiller9125

3 жыл бұрын

Me too I got the point 15 minutes in. Very interesting !! Seems like you've got to get 65 lb and over with your bow or over 627 grain arrow to really get big-time kinetic energy 75.0 plus . It'd be neat to see some tests on hogs on how much kinetic energy / poundage / arrow weight is needed for busting bone!

'Archer's Paradox'....the conundrum that exist...when your arrow hits where you are looking/aiming but is pointing another direction at full draw...when your arrow is right, all else is on you & the environment...

Super interesting!

Forty years ago I did a similar test. I only shot at 40 yards. I shot through a chronograph and shot multiple shots for each arrow weight and discarded any fliers. Back then there were no really light arrows. The biggest difference I could easily get was 200 grains. My results were as follows. No matter what weight arrow I shot they slowed down 15 fps plus or minus 2fps. The chrono I used was of a different design than is currently used. It had a window that was approximately 10 inches square and only 3 inches "thick".

Some good lookin arrows there boys!

Omg! you guys thank you for the information speaking the truth this will never happened in bow shops they just want to sell you the products I'm here from NorCalifornia We shoot small micro arrows we love distances this will be a big topic when I share this information to every one thank you for your hard work we have a small community of archers that follow you guys and support you guys thank you. all the way from Nor California.

As an engineer, this makes perfect sense w.r.t. conservation of momentum and air drag is a function of velocity of cubed. Shoot a heavier arrow at a lower velocity and it will see less air drag and slow down less. If they would have used a 45 lb bow that shot a 450 grain arrow at the same speed as the 700 grain arrow, the change in velocity would be much closer to what they are seeing with the heavy arrows. What these guys are overlooking is a deer or a pig will react to the noise of a bow shot. On good shots, for an arrow traveling at 300 fps will be closer to the desired impact point than an arrow traveling at 250 fps. For me shot placement is key. Anything that can be done to help with shot placement should be done until you personally run into issues. If your using a light arrow with a mechanical and its bouncing off deer you have issue and need to change your setup. If you shooting an 800 grain arrow at a deer 60 yards away and the deer is in a different county by the time your arrow arrive you need to change your setup. I have hunted with compound bows and recurves, heavy and light arrows, fixed blade broad heads and mechanicals. Any bow today has overkill on kinetic energy independent of the weight of the arrow your shooting. My first deer I got was with a recurve bow (~45 lbs draw weight) I made by hand with shot an 2117 arrow with a 125 grain fixed broad head. I could run about as fast as the arrow but it still had plenty of energy to kill a deer I just needed to be close (less than 20 yards).

Serious conversation going on around the 18 min mark. Jakes in the back with a rocket in his hands. Lol 😂

@andrewofthenorth5500

3 жыл бұрын

Red rocket sparky, red rocket!

Nice! Exactly what I’m looking for! Thanks to the the entire team! If we ever meet, drinks on me!

I always find it weird when archers focus on the speed/KE they get out of the bow and how flat the arrow flies without consideration for the KE they'll get downrange. Glad to find out I'm not the only one. 😅

@bmills231

3 жыл бұрын

This proves that arrows in the upper 400fps to lower 600fps range are all pretty similar in overall performance, minus speed which will equate to better trajectory. Why not have the best of every aspect? In my opinion, this video serves to reassure me there's no need to sacrifice anywhere. You can have a very lethal setup and all the flight characteristics you want. The caveat to this is short draw archers who are less likely to have higher speed and a flatter trajectory. In that instance sure, you may as well load up heavier because your not sacrificing anything. I could also see a short draw archer feeling that what trajectory they do have is still important and the arc of a 475-500gr arrow will allow them a more desirable flight path than a 550-600gr arrow. Just use common sense and have an appropriate broadhead and most setups will be lethal.

A very extreme example I can give you of light vs heavy in motion is a Corvette (or maybe a sedan) vs a Coal truck (or a F350) head on. Again an extreme example. But, may help as an example. Edit: IMHO- sound & feel of light vs Heavy arrows. The heavier the arrow the farther from dry-fire on the bow. It sucks up the energy from the bow at pre launch in order to initialize the movement of the arrow. Also, at about 24:00 they are describing 'Archer's Paradox'.

When I went to a 600+ grain arrows, I had to start building my own sight tapes. Because factory sight tapes never line up past 40 yards.

@ericwiitala5407

3 жыл бұрын

Funny you say that. Cuz when I shoot field points, you're 100% correct. I have pencil marks in my tape. Then I started shooting my broadheads (Magnus Stinger) and my arrows planed a little higher which also perfectly corresponds with my tape and I was amazed. Honestly, I'm shooting my broadheads better now than ever. It could just be the way my set up is. I don't know.

@HickLif3

3 жыл бұрын

Try archers advantage. There’s a lot of measurements you have to do but they’re very accurate and can go out as far as you want

@steveyd101

3 жыл бұрын

@@HickLif3 I just don't care that much lol. A: I rarely practice past 60, and don't shoot at cracked out deer past 40. B: I shoot my trad bow most of the time and it doesn't need a sight tape 😂

@RanchFairy

3 жыл бұрын

The tapes are made based upon a certain mass as well. There's no other way to do it. So since the higher mass projectile flies on a different ballistic trajectory, yup. That's what the speed graphs show. Fast arrows drag and slow down. Heavy projectiles fly more of a consistent arch.

Greg. We need a 3D THP challenge. All 6 of you. Beast guys , catman whoever. Tournament. See who wins. You gotta do it.

I predict the day when Aaron's hunting success rates jump because of his understanding and confidence in the information gained from continuously asking what happens to the arrow and how does it respond to the variety of impact situations. Wow, sentence too long, but hope you get my point. The guy to watch is Greg. Thanks Troy for being who you are. (Hard to describe). Always enjoy the content.

100% agree with you guys the basic Ideologies of ballistics should apply to our archery yet no one applies them. Been a bow hunter for 30 years competition for only two years, my hunting arrows are a lot different than my target arrows. I tune the Bow to the arrows because I have spent the time to make each arrow as accurate as possible.

BRAVO!!!

This is interesting. I remember back a few years ago THP guys talking about how they were comfortable shooting out to certain distances. I believe some said 40 and others 30. With all this new knowledge have those “comfort zone” distances increased for each of y’all? Or stayed the same? I would deduce that y’all have gained more confidence in y’all selfs and in your set ups. Also, will this drive y’all towards more western style of hunting? Love what y’all do and learn so much each episode!!!

Fred Bear shot 65 to 70 pound recurves on many of his big game adventures. He shot wood, fiberglass, and aluminum arrows. A friend got one of his autographed arrows back in the 1980s before Fred died, and it was a 2018, 28 inches. His arrows most like weighed around 550 grains tops and Dacron string probably launched arrows around 175 fps. His KE would have been around 37 ft/lbs. He got pass thru shots shooting the Bear Razorhead which weighed around 140 grains. Not sure how well his set up faired on shoulder bones, but he got total penetration on some very large animals. The lowest foot pounds in your test far exceeded his equipment.

@briargoatkilla

3 жыл бұрын

ett zachary

@montuckyman4982

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah for sure. Guys are pursuing the arrow that can withstand the worst case scenario I feel. And that's fine as long as it doesn't make you LESS ACCURATE! A strong effective arrow doesn't have to be 7-800 grains.

@weekender38

3 жыл бұрын

so true

Cool video guys

We need to find a great way to build a surrogate to test these arrows on. Different ballistics jell consistency’s, there are bone stand ins for ballistic testing so test which compares the most to a shoulder, ribs etc and build a worst case scenario setup you can use to build arrows up and see that you need x weight to go through

My takeaway from this study is that and others I have seen is that 350gr. loses a lot of energy. However, 475gr. is a very efficient arrow that shoots far flatter than the 700gr. arrows that get all the hype. Even at 60yds. with the most powerful bow the 700gr. arrow only has 5.5lbs. more KE, 74.7lbs. versus 80.2lbs. You would have to hit something damn solid for that to make a difference.

You should have tested broadheads against the field points to see if it changed!

I wonder what the 30 yard data would show comparing lighter vs heavier arrows. I shoot 60 lb bow so does that have an effect on results. Is there a sweet spot with arrow weight and the bow poundage used? I’m sure there are tons of questions. Thanks for doing your research.

I've been using my LR for bow for a few years. Interestingly my data lines up just like yours with mass, KE, velocity degradation, etc. Not only should you be measuring velocity degradation, but ES and SD of an individual arrow across multiple shots (shooter consistency) and between all of your hunting arrows (arrow build consistency). Nothing like knowing arrow #2 is going same point of aim or you botched the shot.

@Thatsauniqueusername

Жыл бұрын

What is your Labradar set-up for archery? I struggle getting it to pick up 22LR.

still dont own a bow, but ive been fascinated by the physics behind it and the different variables, yet never got into it too much... super tempting to just take a LOOK at an archery shop, and maybe see what fits me, and then the price. like harry potter finding his wand, only that this harry potter is much more like... hairy fodder....

Everything is happening on launch. Form form form. Subconsciously the mind and muscles will conform. Then tune arrows and bow. Thanks for the info guys. I feel better about my 640 gr setup now.

You guys need to do like a ballistics test with different foc for penetration or power at impact kinda thing I think that's were you'll find the big difference

It would be really interesting to know if theres a way to roughly calculate how much your arrow will drop at a fixed distance/50 grains added or something along those lines. I know you can tinker but quick math would help with starting points. I started watching this channel and ranch fair recently and want to add on weight to my 410 grain arrow but am concerned about the drop at distance. Im bad at judging distance and if i misjudged something at 42 and is actually 46 the extra weight may be the difference is hitting or missing the animal.

Thoughts on six fletch for lighter arrows? What I have read is they stabilize fixed broadheads really well but create significantly more drag that four and three fletched arrows.

Love the shirt Troy

I’d like to see the timing difference from shot to target in a heavy vs light arrow. I wonder if there’s a certain distance that the timing becomes equivalent given the greater loss in KE with the lighter arrow set up.

@MrAPCProductions

3 жыл бұрын

A couple of youtubes have a 400 gr vs 800 gr time on target at 80 yards. 0.1 second.