My biggest question was about the blood spatter, or the absence of it. You presented a very plausible theory. Also, I hadn't considered the relevance of the order in which they were killed! 👏 Great observation! Lizzie was very very clever!

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

There was blood spatter. It’s just hard to see on that wall paper with the limited clarity of that lens.

i agree with you 100 percent! Its refreshing to know that someone sees the evidence the way i do. The court transcripts convinced me. Thankyou!

I really like your theory about Lizzy using the long overcoat to keep blood off of her. If this is indeed the case, Lizzy was most definitely very clever in doing this. I agree her staying in the house like she did sure does point the finger at her. Also the house being laid out in the design it would make it quite difficult for one to conceal themselves, if it was another person hiding. I imagine Lizzy had really thought out how she would do it and when the opportunity struck , she seized it and carried out the murders. It was a daring plan to say the least. She would have needed a perfect time to kill both her father and step mother as she would gain half of the estate. You have to wonder what her thoughts would have been throughout the decades that followed while she lived at Maple Croft. She would have had to set it in her mind that she was guilty of anything. Very stone cold lady. BTW I just subbed! Thanks for posting your thoughts on this intriguing crime.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. I think that if the nurse was telling the truth, it does give insight into how she coped with her crime. She may have even come to believe she didn’t do it, blocking out the memory in favor of her fantasy version. It’s not uncommon. Aileen Wournos convinced herself that every one of her victims who had picked her up for prostitution had been rapists and she’d killed in self-defense. The first victim it looks like that might be true. He was a sexual predator and it was self-defense. But the rest were murders for robbery and money. Think Lizzie may have likewise believed her own made-up story.

@ernestinemaloy8680

Жыл бұрын

boris1932 love that bit in the 1975 TV movie about lizzie gettin busy with the hatchet in the nude...uhuh nope....in 1892 ??? upper class Victorian woman?? Nope ain't happenin....sorry...😹😸😸😸😹💋❣💋❣🖤💖

Lizzy’s pictures always scare me. Something is off in her eyes and face. She appears sinister. Maybe it is because we know she is a murderer, but I still shudder when I see her pictures.

@saraszekely7651

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I thought the same thing too. She may have acted “natural” through most of the time, but that doesn’t mean something else wasn’t going on upstairs, and I think everyone in that family knew…

love your videos. You far surpass any channels on youtube about true crime and ancient Egypt. Most channels get the facts wrong. i hope you do more videos like these.

I just started researching this case after watching law and lumbers video on the topic. The blood spatter still has me puzzled. How could she not get blood and sweat on her face and hair? Even if she wore her father's coat, blood gets places. Any way. Fascinating tale. Thanks for sharing.

@bigprettyman3795

2 жыл бұрын

Remember: 1892. Long before the age of advanced forensics and CSI. There could have been minute traces of blood. If this happened today they would have confiscated every stitch she was wearing for the forensics lab to put through analysis and Lizzie would have got a thorough examination. However, This was the Victorian age and this was a lady of some status. There was just some things that weren’t done or even dreamed in the rigid Victorian social etiquette. The very idea of giving her a body search would have been unthinkable, scandalous and never even considered. Cops would have never even went through their dressers for fear of seeing her ‘ unmentionables’. She could have hid the bloody hatchet in her panty drawer and they’d have never found it. Lizzie received no physical examination whatsoever. They didn’t even think to check the clothes she had been wearing that day for several days. When asked, she offered a clean, freshly laundered dress. I think, as I said, she wore a headscarf that she could have easily chucked in the warm stove. The coat would have caught the rest.

@nicola6530

2 жыл бұрын

I am sure I read somewhere there was also a bucket in the basement that had bloody rags in it that Lizzie claimed was for her time of the month. The police would never have investigated further.

@classiccarsclassicrock9433

Жыл бұрын

The blood spatter not on the stepmom but walls and other areas around the room. That is what throws me.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

@@classiccarsclassicrock9433that questions me as well. Though it’s a blood bath under her, and we have no pic of the ceiling. There is a bit of spatter on the side wall, just hard to see through wallpaper and the poor exposure.

@greneellen8

8 ай бұрын

@@bigprettyman3795 Except that did search every inch of that house to the point that they hired contractors to look at the walls. The prosecutor even said he wanted to raise the house to the ground and go through the rubble. The coat if you see a picture of it, cut to the side. It wouldn't have covered her lower half very well. And the police in 1892 weren't idiots. That coat stuffed under his head would have been examined. In fact, they removed Andrew from that couch, put his shoes back on, and shuffled the pillows around before propping him back up on it, and snapping a picture. The police could've pushed the coat under him to raise his head a bit. My point is, seeing the coat in the crime scene photo isn't a "new discovery". They saw it then, knew it was there.

You are right! I always thought it was like the 1975 movie! Mr. Borden's winter coat! Right there for the world to see, and it was missed. Imagine this case today? Within less than a week they would have had her (dead) cold.

Hi Tim, another great video and I can vouch for the camera syndrome 😆 we have all been their my friend 👍 looking forward to your next creation🙂

@bigprettyman3795

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

Lizzie had motive. And she had opportunity. I think far too much has been made about blood splatter. A first blow to the head could render someone instantly dead. The heart would also stop beating immediately, the signals from the brain to the heart ceasing. And what promotes blood splatter IS the continued beating of the heart, however brief.

@aprilcitygirltocountrywife7440

11 ай бұрын

I watched another video last night and the man giving a talk about the case said unless she hit an artery there wouldn't necessarily be a lot of blood splatter.

I think there was more about Lizzie Borden than she and anyone in the family would have been willing to admit… I have a feeling that there was an underlying mental condition but tried to keep a good impression before the murders. One of my clues was her taking morphine… if she was taking that to cope with some of the things she was already going through, then that has to mean something.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Actually, the use of cocaine, laudanum and morphine was quite common for the time. You could buy it like Tylenol and aspirin.many women used it for their nerves and to relieve their ‘ vapors’. I’m sure it worked quite well.

@aprilcitygirltocountrywife7440

11 ай бұрын

I don't remember the details but it was said that in the first house they lived in with other members of his ( andrews) family his sister took her children into the basement and drowned them.

That is the first time I have seen the photo of Abby Borden’s injuries. Those do not look like hatchet wounds.

@aprilcitygirltocountrywife7440

11 ай бұрын

Some people say it was from the iron that lizzy said she was using to iron handkerchiefs that morning.

Very interesting. Thank you

@bigprettyman3795

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

It was warmer than that?? Upper 80’s. They also were able to tell Abby was dead an hour and half prior to Andrew because of stomach contents too. Her breakfast was not as digested like Andrew was.

Cool, my recall of strikes from hatchet were correct. Love lizbeth's tale.

They also determined the timeline by the stomach contents.

Good detail.

I think the part about her saying Abby got a note to visit a sick friend, when no nite was ever found nor no friend ever came forward in saying it was them , and no one seeing Abby leave the house just seals my opinion Lizzie is guilty as hell. Then her saying later she thought she heard Abby come in and sent others to go upstairs. I mean come on. If abby had come in, don’t you think she would have heard all the commotion downstairs?? Lizzie was so full of shit

Experts actually believe Abby was facing her assailant on the first strike. Because she had one blow to area around front of ear and that force took her down swinging her away to fall on her face. Which makes sense that rest of blows are to back of her head. Eerily she probably saw Lizzie come at her with the ax before she could react

@bigprettyman3795

8 ай бұрын

Exactly and why would she stand there if it were a stranger come through the door and come around the bed to strike her? How could she fail to see it coming? Only answer: it’s someone she wasn’t surprised to see and didn’t see as a threat, and who was the only person in the house? Lizzie Borden.

In your first Lizzie video, you stated there were only two exterior doors in the the house, but there is also a door to the outside in the basement.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Yes, which was locked and found to have cobwebs inside. It had not been opened in quite awhile.

@greneellen8

8 ай бұрын

@@bigprettyman3795 If you read Bridget's testimony she said she used it a few days before when doing laundry.

@Ross1966

8 ай бұрын

And all doors were kept locked by those inside and outside of the house. How would an intruder get in (unless an unidentified party was let in)?

Lizzie seemed to have issues with theft and her father enabled that behavior. So Lizzie wasn’t completely pure as we think. There was a little something going on with her that might be a lot deeper than we realize.

@bigprettyman3795

2 ай бұрын

Did she? The rumors of her shop-lifting came after the small painting accusation from Providence. She protested and said had paid for them. Could have been an inventory or receipt mistake. Either way it was dropped without incident.There are NO OTHER RECORDED INCIDENTS. The rest was the rumor mill that was perpetuated by bad documentaries and movies. Don’t believe everything you read.

I wonder why Andrew would have worn such a heavy overcoat on an 60f+ degree August morning?

@bigprettyman3795

8 ай бұрын

See first video.

Dr. Edward S. Wood examined the stomach content of Mr. and Mrs. Borden and confirmed the time between their deaths was somewhere in the neighborhood of an hour and a half more or less.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Hence fitting the timeline and making sense of where the body was found. I agree.

@sg-vp2qg

8 ай бұрын

​@@bigprettyman3795People's stomachs have different rates of emptying, and the rate of digestion can vary depending on gastric acidity, etc. I, for example, have gastroparesis (paralyzed stomach muscles), and once I threw up 18 hours after eating dinner, and the entire meal was intact. (Sorry for the bit of grossness, but I have never heard anyone mention this factor.)

Awesome video, you brought up points that are so simple of why Lizzie is guilty, that over time we just take for granted. People can be so hypocritical in this day and age, it is so hard to have a discussion in a public forum without someone getting their panties in a wad if you disagree with them or don't word it to suit them in this politically correct circus. I would really love your opinion about Bridget Sullivan's complicity in this case, how much did she know and when. I do not believe for one moment that her and Lizzie were lovers as some people try to theorize now, simply because of how rigid class distinctions were back then and the fact that you brought up the family called her Maggie and not by her real name, the fact that Bridget doesn't necessarily back up Lizzie in the whole robbery gone bad motive, she puts Lizzie directly at the scenes of the crimes, but then doesn't entirely go out of her way to help convict Lizzie. Also, one last point I have heard that they had to increase Bridget's wages because she supposedly was on the verge of leaving due to the underlying tension in the house. There is also the point of John Vinnicum Morse, Lizzie's uncle, suspicious character there, the points of memorizing the conductor's hat number and supposedly seven priests on the car to vouch for him, the fact of him showing up at the house kinda out of the blue with no luggage and after the murders have occurred with policemen and spectators all around the house, nonchalantly eating a pear out back. This case is still so fascinating to me to this day because not necessarily that I see it as a big mystery of who committed the murders, but the timing of everything in this case and who knew what and when and why did they keep their mouths shut and how much help did the characters involved play in getting Lizzie acquitted, I think even Emma's role in this drama has to come into reflection even though she obviously didn't handle the murder weapon, did she know when she went to FairHaven what Baby Lizzie was going to do? I apologize for the lengthy comment, but you are one of the few people who I have seen commentate on this crime with unique and common sense perspective on this fascinating case, and I cannot wait to see more of your feedback on it in the comments when you have time to spare. Again thanks for the video,;)

@bigprettyman3795

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much. As you may have noticed, rude behavior and propagating false information on my channel doesn't fly. It gets your lil commentary masterpiece deleted and they get blocked. I'm more than glad to discuss this case in the polite way you've offered here. Bridgette Sullivan interests me as well, though I doubt she had any more info on the murder itself than what she testified. I would have loved to had a discussion with her to find out what the relationships were really like in the house. Unfortunately, everything we hear about the Borden family relationship comes post the murders from the rumor mills. In truth there was no talk of the Borden's before that incident, so all these stories we hear of Andrew killing pigeons, Lizzie killing animals to have make-believe funerals as a kid, lesbian affairs, illegitimate sons and incest come from the hearsay, gossiping, and theories of later investigators. All we know about the Borden household was that Andrew was rather tight-on-the-dollar and that the daughters had a serious dispute with their parents when Andrew bought Abby's half-sisters house for her, and to placate them Andrew sold them his fathers house for one dollar so the two girls could have the income from that, and that Lizzie was a habitual shoplifter. That's it.On Uncle John Morse, it is true he remembered the number of the trolley attendants badge, but once again, this was an Age before smart phones, tv, or radio. Less distractions then and thus their memory was much more susceptible to small details. Yet he did have verifiable alibis and was not there for the murders. I think the timing had more to do with Emma being out of town corresponding with Uncle John's visit. Lizzie knew no suspicion would fall on her sister, and with another man in the house he would surely be the prime suspect as surely no woman could commit such a crime. Was Emma in collusion? Truth is, we'll never know. Even after their over 20 year falling out, she still defended her sister publicly. One thing you may notice is that Lizzie Borden becomes a mirror for every female social issue of the time. Shes a blank slate for such political and social statement. In the 60's and 70's she was a poster-girl for women;s rights, sufferage and empowerment, in the 80's and 90's she was the poster-girl for child abuse and possible incest, in the new millennia she is a symbol of oppressed and sexually exploited women and homophobia. I think none reflect the real Lizzie Borden; a church-going, temperamental, arrogant Victorian woman who was seen as an old maid during her time, and resented living below the family's means. Her ambitions and motives for this crime doesn't seem outwardly sexual nor in anyway political. She was a woman who wanted to live the high-society life with a nice house, pretty things, fashionable clothes and the accoutrements of wealth; and she did what she had to do to get it. When reading some of this speculation, always look at their agenda and/or the hot-button issues of their times. You'll find more contemporary social statement than a real-life Victorian Age woman.

@shannonlarson7446

2 жыл бұрын

Fair enough, it is very true, like the Ripper case no one will ever know for sure, but it is still interesting to this day and conjecture on how everyone fit into the drama and their roles just due to the time period, the unique murder weapon, and that a woman was involved in such a grisly way, thank you for taking the time out to respond and look forward to more videos in the future.

How don’t we know these facts about if they staged the crime scene photos? Wouldn’t that be documented somewhere for the trial??

I think 🤔 her dad miser ways drove her insane; it was super hot 🥵 (wearing long dresses), eating 🍽 bad food (food poisoning) knowing he was old & her stepmother w/have gotten everything. Sitting in the dark @ night (mental abuse). Even the maid got paid but not Lizzie, she lost her mind. She killed him violently because she knew that no one w/believe a woman could have done this.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

A few problems here:Andrew Borden wasn’t a miser. The girls weren’t forced to wear old dresses, they didn’t sit in the dark, they didn’t eat bad food. All of that is proven myth. In truth he had the house remodeled, put in running water, a bathroom and radiator heat in the house, owned an icebox for food, owned a a very nice Summer home,gave his daughters $4 a week pocket money ( equivalent to $138), while paying all their bills, bought them the top style hand-made, tailored dresses every year, and financed Lizzie’s tour of Europe in first class style.His property, expense accounts and bank accounts proves all this. Rumors are one thing, but receipts are proof. In truth Lizzie and Emma lived a quite comfortable and pampered life compared to most of the population of the time and place. See my last video on Lizzie Borden for all these details. However, I do think fear of her fathers death and his money being controlled by her step-mother was the major motive in her heinous crime. She was about as crazy as a sly Fox.

@aprilcitygirltocountrywife7440

11 ай бұрын

​@@bigprettyman3795Also Lizzie was a known shoplifter and the store keepers knew just to write down what she took and Andrew would pay for it later.

Very solid reasoning here!

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. One must keep one foot in evidence, even it’s circumstantial, and only speculate based on that evidence as far as the other foot can reach and no more. It’s advice I’d give to my students or any scholar of any discipline.

Andrew Borden was 69 years when he died. He would’ve been 70 in September of 1892.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Hence why I said almost 70 in the first video, and the murders were just short of a little over a month of him finishing his 70th year. So in and very near the end his 70th year of life. I’d personally round that off to 70 at that point, but He was 69 years, 10 months and 21 days old if you really want to get pedantic.

I'm a huge true crime, history and Lizzie Borden fan.

I've always thought her sister "Abby" knew more than she would ever say. Maybe Abby knew of the plan, and chose not to be there for the event.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

As I said in my video , I think that’s very possible, but we’ll never know. She took it to her grave.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

And her sister was Emma. Her stepmother was Abby.

@barbarahill4125

Жыл бұрын

Her sister was Emma not Abby Abby was her stepmother

The astonishing feature of this case is the ferocity with which these crimes were committed. What sort of man, let alone, woman, does this? Andrew's face was destroyed. That's a lot of rage. Was Lizzie sexually abused? We'll probably never know. It was not a topic for polite discussion even in a courtroom in the 19th century!

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

See my next two videos I did on this subject. There is no evidence of sexual abuse. It wasn’t even a proposed possibility until the 1970’s and 80’s. Lizzie Borden has become a blank slate in which every social and political issue throughout the last 130 years has been imposed on her. A poster-girl for every women’s movement from the suffragette to MeToo. None I feel reflect the character or motives of the real Lizzie Borden.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/a2WosdyFfbqWeZM.html

I noticed the inconsistentsy about the shoes, and I still find it weird. Putting high top and lace up shoes on a dead man's feet that had to, from the position of the body, have been swelled from lavidity would not been easy. I just do not see a reason for it. I mean like obviously the guy wasn't going out for a walk with half his face hanging down down his chest. So to me, it's just damn strange for anyone to go to the difficult work of putting his shoes back on. It's just a little curiosity that does not at all tell us who done it.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

See my other two videos on the shoes as well. It may have been a Victorian thing. Not showing a gentleman without shoes, even with his head mashed in..

lizzies eyes tell the story

@bigprettyman3795

4 ай бұрын

To say that’s subjective would be an understatement.

If someone broke in wouldn’t there be evidence I think she did it but that’s just me and if someone wanted to kill them why kill the wife first and not even kill the maid and Lizzie case they both could have seen them and they be able to tell the cops who it was

Gentlemen? You forgot the ladies!

That's my presumption.

i think lizzie was being trated with morphine before she killed morphine can calm you down so much you dont think about what you are doing also she was being treated because of incest and had psychological problems because of it

@bigprettyman3795

4 ай бұрын

Disgusting. No evidence for any of what you said, and to accuse Andrew Borden of incest with his daughters without a single shred of evidence or even speculation at the time is morally irresponsible and deplorable. I won’t have that spread here.

Shoes were put on ’in display of respect for the person.

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Victorians had some strange sensibilities at times.

@420JRMan

Жыл бұрын

@@bigprettyman3795 Lizbeth Gordon avoided all blame, murders under her name. The evidence was there, the truth; that time, they wouldn't hear. Nineteen strike's to Abby, undear,; the first, fatal, back of her head; the eighteen 'to her front, scream, "¡Pent-up rage here!" Andrew, was circumstantial; eventually he'd die; just so long as Abby isn't near. . . Andrew lay, asleep, when his blood-stained Lizzie his eyes did greet. "Oh well, Lizzie's shoulders did speak as eleven blows 'to Mr. Gordon, our killer did great. Lizzie’s guilt is clear as each day 'to Maplecroft, eyes, its' name greet.

@catherinesquires8743

10 ай бұрын

Abby’s shoes did stick out to me. Wearing formal, hard bottomed shoes to do chores around the house. Of course trivial as compared to the brutality that occurred that day, but notable. How different those times were in comparison to the casualness of current society.

@tomsrensen9382

Ай бұрын

@@bigprettyman3795 To quote you on a another comment: "There is 0 evidence for this conclusion. Belief is useless without evidence."

Hey Tim, I've got a question, how to dress up on rainy or stormy days ? I don't want to put on a poncho or something like that, it would look a bit silly 😂

@bigprettyman3795

2 жыл бұрын

I would recommend getting a good old fashion raincoat with an umbrella. They are warm, water proof snd stylish. Go well with dress hats as well.

@Erik-px4zw

2 жыл бұрын

@@bigprettyman3795 Thank you very much !

I don’t think that’s correct. I believe his shoes were on and feet were on the floor at time of his death. They were saying that was one of Lizzie’s contradictions. She claims to have helped her father take his shoes off and into slippers??

Dust, 'in barn loft, fails to hold most impressions, breeze constantly cutting through.

She died in 1927

@bigprettyman3795

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I said that in the 1st video.

I’ve had morphine…. It’s not going to confuse you that much….

@TimothyRCrowe

2 жыл бұрын

Me, too. You are exactly right.

@ernestinemaloy8680

Жыл бұрын

@@TimothyRCrowe it makes ME loopy nauseous and I get a 2 day hangover when it's wearing off...morphine sucks...

@javiermori1710

9 ай бұрын

Doesnt confuse but does give you that warm fuzzy feelin though