Never assume a giant corporation is doing something out of "kindness". It's a myth.

@Vahvajussi

9 ай бұрын

Like wives bringing to you cookies.

@satevo462

9 ай бұрын

💯

@Mr_jz_12

8 ай бұрын

Same as a government doing something for the benefit of the people.

@timmokoo5679

8 ай бұрын

Well corporations are never kind. They are not humans, they do not have emotions.

@Arthurian.

8 ай бұрын

​@@timmokoo5679no one invites you anywhere, do better.

I saw Lorna, Gojira and Mastodon at a Live Nation Venue. I paid $40 for parking ahead of time, got to the venue and parking was free except in the "premium area" which was exactly the same as the normal parking. I paid $220 for a 2nd row center seat, $80 service fee, and when I got to the venue, they pulled the front section and turned it into a pit without communicating with us what had happened. So my 2nd row seat got turned into 4hours of me standing and stuck behind a pit of 8 people deep of men taller than me. They said there was nothing we could do. Such a rip off.

@syyneater

9 ай бұрын

Damn, that’s all sorts of fucked up. =\

@jakehaimowitz4529

8 ай бұрын

I was there too their bag check and fee thing is absolutely insane and they cut lorna shores set too. Pathetic

@jacobholmes6201

8 ай бұрын

Daaaaaaamn I saw them in NC and it was $35 for pit tickets. Had to walk, but it was worth it to ride the rail the whole time.

@Arthurian.

8 ай бұрын

This is exactly why I will not go to concerts any longer. Venues and tickets are abusing customers

@knownasweed

8 ай бұрын

I was one of the drivers for the megamonsters tour. The promoter was talking about this very thing and told them not to do it.

This situation reminds me of something that a coworker told me once. I can't remember it word for word, but the gist was something like "Corporations have two reasons to do things: To make more money here and now, or to enable them to make more money later down the line. If a corporation does something that seems to you like they're giving away money, then you're probably not seeing the whole picture."

@syyneater

9 ай бұрын

Combine this with the obvious PR, tax benefits and the impact on independent venues, it’s clear people aren’t seeing the whole picture yet.

@poisonedpens7390

8 ай бұрын

It is both. They get an industry PR win and some of the heat about LN being a monopoly turned down; and they also get a leg up in negotiating/bidding for bands/tours. Down the line, no doubt they will expect loyalty from bands that benefit from the program.

@Ruinwyn

8 ай бұрын

Making money on the long run is usually the important part. That isn't necessarily bad for the once getting benefit right now. For LiveNation, they need touring bands to make money. If new bands fold early because they go broke, they won't pull audiences on tour 5 years from now. Companies can eat some losses or lower profits for few years, while band members need to eat today. Pandemic ate most performers savings, so without extra money, many wouldn't make it to tour at all. LiveNation needs performers, performers need money right now.

The funniest part is that it's only for three months and it's the part of the year where most bands don't tour.

@rnrpeg1

8 ай бұрын

You have a weird sense of humor. 😉

@IWannaGoMissing

Ай бұрын

Not anymore, now it’s been extended until the end of 2024. Obviously it isn’t out of any charitable or ethical impulse but it is without question a good thing for artists when they play LN venues. Small venues complaining that they cant afford to not take a merch cut is like saying they can’t afford to pay minimum wage. Merch cuts are bad

I’m a stagehand and doesn’t want to work for live nation and is a former AEG employee. And would rather work at smaller owned venues that aren’t owned by corporations. when I found out this information. This is a huge red flag. They will most definitely be buying out the independent venues.

@justingreen429

9 ай бұрын

True story...😢

@st8ofinfinity

8 ай бұрын

AEG opened a venue in Minneapolis called "the brick" - dumb name. Anyways, their grand opening headlined Janes Addicion which they massively oversold. The show was a disaster! There were many problems with the venue including sight lines, a total disregard for the audience safety etc... They ended up rebranding as "mill city nights" - even dumber name. Ultimately they ended up closing because they really had no idea how to run a music venue. That's what happens when big corp and greed get ahold of ticket sales and music venues.

@mattwhaley1865

8 ай бұрын

@@st8ofinfinity for real. There’s so many oversold shows in their Denver locations. They used my ideas for a festival on April 22nd including the poster for it while not having me part of the set up nor load in itself of this year. They don’t have much creativity while not paying their staff enough. A lot of the crew are great but holy fuck there’s no creativity, tickets are so expensive. It’s such bullshit. I left cause I had a broken toe injury on day 2 of the load in for illenium and I was nearly shot and killed after they sent me home early on day 4 of the set up while we had the parade in town for the nuggets championship win.

Their ONLY duty is to their shareholders. Period. (Same as Politicians).

@ajsepti5827

9 ай бұрын

I mean, politician's only real duty is to their constituents.

@OdinSonne

9 ай бұрын

@@ajsepti5827 Their shareholders are their donors, special interests and businesses in their local state. Then their party obligations and favours. THEN, lastly, the people.

@-The-Golden-God-

9 ай бұрын

​@@ajsepti5827I truly hope that's sarcasm.

@OdinSonne

9 ай бұрын

@@-The-Golden-God- I'm hoping too but...

@misterknightowlandco

9 ай бұрын

It’s called fiduciary. Companies and corporations are BOUND BY LAW to provide profits to their shareholders. They are not LEGALLY ALLOWED to do anything that takes away profits every quarter. If they lose a buck this week they better make it back and more the next week.

I work for Live Nation at Emo’s and the Scoot Inn in Austin Texas and when I heard about the program I honestly had a list of questions in my head. You’ve explained this better than the email I received.

@matthewleos71

8 ай бұрын

I've been to both. Hope it changes :(

Agree with the sentiment that this is likely a move to squash some of the smaller, local competitors. Monopolies tend to claim that they aren’t one, and that their moves benefit consumers, while in reality they are just trying to consolidate their market position. If you are large enough / have enough venture capital, you can afford to do things that would be prohibitive for smaller businesses; great way to push them out of the market. Sitting in Europe we luckily have alternatives to LN/TM when purchasing tickets, so for my part actively avoid buying from them, even when they sell tickets earlier than their competitors.

It's a brilliant/self-serving move by LN because theres such a massive challenge in getting bands/artists out to tour due to the economy. LN knows that if there are no butts in the seats it doesn't matter what percentage of merch they want; it's a big fat zero for them. Like you said @tankthetech, always a catch.

Thank you Tank, for keeping us fans in the loop on this, and talking about the elephant in the room. Without your insight on this issue, a lot of us wouldn't think so much about where this could go in the long run.

They're most likely going to drop merch fees through 2024, add additional fees to ticket sales, then in 2025 bring back merch fees with the now higher ticket fees that everybody is used to.

My husband and I refuse to attend shows anymore at Live Nation venues bc we refuse to give them our money. Things like this are always based on financial decisions. I bet it's intentional to generate more artist bookings bc they were trending down to investors. Like you said, there is always a catch. The consumer will pay one way or another.

Tank, you're fighting the good fight for all the artists out there. You're a damn treasure to the industry. Never stop doing what you're doing. You're the man!

@JK-js2td

8 ай бұрын

Totally agree....way to tell it like it is, Tank!

LiveNation "caved" and TEMPORARILY suspended charging merch fees at their smaller artist sold locations only. What exactly are they doing for the artist here other than suspending fees that should never have been charged in the first place? Yes, this is not the Win you think it is.

@zjjohnson3827

9 ай бұрын

“Cause the problem, and act like giving the solution makes them saints” This Live Nation is acting like a music-themed EA lmao

@unai49999

9 ай бұрын

Repeat with me guys... "Not a flaw but a feature"

@arkeeper

8 ай бұрын

It's a win for the artists playing those venues, and those specific venues. It's a big loss for other venues that are also smaller in size, aren't Live Nation venues, and need the merch fees to stay in business. It's the equivalent of Walmart undercutting mom and pop stores when they come to town.

you are ABSOLUTELY correct about the shirt prices being ridiculous. When i was 15 in 2009 my first show was the Van Halen reunion tour, their shirts were $30 and i remember telling my grandfather thats insane dont pay that we dont need it but the argument was oh Daves back in the band its a decent price so we bought it. Went and saw KISS at Jiffy Lube Live with the same grandfather and the same QUALITY T-Shirt was $55. He bought it, because my grandpa is all about getting mementos, but on principle that shirt was no better than the $30 Van Halen shirt yet it was 25 dollars more..AT a LiveNation venue. absolutely ludicrous

@Valkyrie_71

9 ай бұрын

Most bigger/ more famous bands can justify selling merch at a higher price. Tank here did video about all the costs of what a band has to pay just to go on tour.. You should check it out. Thousands and thousands of dollars for the tourbus, paying the driver, hotel costs if its a day off the next day, food costs for the duration, venue costs (bigger bands renting out stadiums is astronomical), plus dozens of smaller fees and costs here and there for things like pay for road tech, equipment guys etc. you get the idea. the longer a band has been around, they kinda do deserve the nostalgia aspect. I would pay $50 or more bucks for a one of a kind tour shirt from Black Sabbath or Ozzy. Something you may never be able to get again, or buy online, and say you had been there.

@gregggoss2210

8 ай бұрын

Ha! When I first started going to concerts, t-shirts were $5 and jerseys were $7. I saw AC/DC in 1980 and paid $7.50 for a good seat and $5 for a t-shirt in the parking lot.

@partymarty6969

8 ай бұрын

@@Valkyrie_71That’s a broken business model. Touring expenses should be handled through ticket prices. Merchandise is separate source of income. The cost of a t-shirt should only be based on the cost it takes to manufacture that t-shirt. If a band wants to minimize travel expenses for a ticketed event, that production needs to look into hosting hybrid performances (watch parties, listening parties, hybrid concerts: virtual performers, LIVE audience). Welcome to the future. The fact that you’re reading this says a lot too.

I hope this isn't them trying to muscle bands into signing Live Nation exclusive tours and/or trying to become a complete monopoly

@ferox965

8 ай бұрын

Bet on that's what it is.

@GutsBatman

8 ай бұрын

​@@ferox965 I tend to agree with this. Companies the size of LN are always analyzing the market for the ways they will be making their necessary numbers (revenue, costs, profit) 5-20 years in advance. That's why they (being LN) will always be ahead of smaller, independent venues and companies. They simply have the advantage of being able to survive the losses or not making profit from ventures in the short term if those plans make them better off in the long term than smaller companies who are forced to live and survive in the short term. Short term goals oftentimes don't align with long term goals. LN is using this to position itself with a greater level of leverage with bands. They are clearly leveraging developing bands need for exposure in their current time frame to develop relationships with them for bigger company profit in the future. In this way it's no different than how NFL/college football teams scout potential football talent.

@Nightschism

8 ай бұрын

That is absolutely what it is. Imagine looking at a tour schedule and comparing the venues that will and won’t take a merch cut or provide a travel stipend. Which would you choose? It’s not a scheme, it’s a business play to choke out smaller competitors and expand their market share. More bands taking live nation contracts will drive up their revenue even if they don’t increase ticket fees.

@JK-js2td

8 ай бұрын

Its ALREADY a fkn monopoly!😊

@partymarty6969

8 ай бұрын

don’t play their game than, make up your own. movie theaters hold a lot of potential for successful touring musicians, and concert organizers can create work all over the country utilizing/revamping movie theaters for music events. they need help too. I am grateful to say that I do quite well for myself with my music being on Spotify and my events being in movie theaters. In the music industry, if you don’t create your own path, others will create one for you.

This is a competition scheme as a selling point to drive tour packages to run through their venues. Big move and a smart one 👏🏻

I am a tax and business consultant. This is a genius PR move on LN's part. You give out extra money to each band and write it off as either "entertainer expense" or "outside services" and your net profit line drops on paper. Unfortunately, the buck gets passed down the ladder, and it's a great way for future acquisition. Cash flow allows for debt acquisition, aka company/real estate acquisition. Company and real estate debt are capital assets, which are just a balance sheet item. It gets worse, they can be put into asset protected LLC's owned by land trusts, and nobody can even see who owns the property; which is a huge source of tax fraud in commercial property.

I’m glad you acknowledge that venue workers aren’t at fault for LN’s corporate things. I’m an ops person for some venues and the negative stuff around the company is a lot sometimes.

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Well, people need to realize that the staff at venues aren’t the same as the people making 8+ figures a year at the corporate level.

@-The-Golden-God-

9 ай бұрын

​@@TankTheTechUnfortunately, the snakes who make the big bucks are never within arms reach.

@JK-js2td

8 ай бұрын

​@@-The-Golden-God-coincidence? Nahhhhh!!!! 😂

In Australia, the merch fees are out of control. I went to see ghost last night, and t-shirts were $70 AUD. While i understand that stuff costs more in Australia, it feels like once the prices breached $50, merch prices have been increasing faster and faster

@poisonzombii

8 ай бұрын

Yeah I came here to say that the price for shirts in Australia is out of control, they're nearly as much at the ticket!

@tmw3489

8 ай бұрын

That is cheap. You're lucky. Just went to shows in EU where all shirts were 20% more.

@tmw3489

8 ай бұрын

​@@poisonzombiiuh? What the hell is this comment? 90% of shows Ive been to in the last 20 years have had a cheaper ticket price than the shirt...

I paid $80 for tour merch at Electric Callboy concert (2 shirts at $40 each), was honestly a bit shocked at prices since same shirt was $5 less on their webpage. However with shipping charges comes out the same, so bought shirts at venue, but I would have bought the 2 opening bands shirts IF T-shirts for main band were not that high.

Small venues are already struggling because of the regulations/taxes in cities. Theses venues need our support and need to be looked after.

@WhyTheHorseface

8 ай бұрын

What regulations and taxes are causing which small venues to struggle?

@austingil7

8 ай бұрын

@@WhyTheHorsefacebecause they don’t have massive capital to fix old infrastructures and don’t have the means to do things that can shift burden to other parts of the business and ultimately write it off on taxes.

@shockt9610

8 ай бұрын

@@WhyTheHorseface zoning, licensing, what that guy said^, etc.

@RLGArtist

8 ай бұрын

This is only for live Nation venues so when the artists get booked at a live nation venue they get the gas and stock money. It's won't effect other venues.

@partymarty6969

8 ай бұрын

Everything is more expensive now. Rent, travel expenses, food, etc. “These venues” need to stop dwelling on the past and adapt with the times. “These venues” need to start hosting virtual concerts & watch parties if they want to stay in the game. EVERY show doesn’t need to be a traditional concert. Welcome to the future.

Found your channel at random and I gotta say, it's one of my new favorites. Love your vibe and attitude, makes me miss being in a band and meeting good people and all that. Great content!

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Thanks a ton!

@JK-js2td

8 ай бұрын

​@@TankTheTechlove love love your realness and honesty....LN has been a monopoly for so long its retarded. I hate those mfers.

Live Nation is a prime example of why there needs to be a lot heftier regulations for corporations. Disgusting.

@whssy

8 ай бұрын

Presume you're in Denmark like me. LN can't get away with nearly as much in our country - but still has far more power and influence than is reasonable for fair competition. US and UK it seems to be up to far far worse stuff than in EU countries.

@BeardedDanishViking

8 ай бұрын

@@whssy I'm talking globally, yes.

As someone that works in screen printing I can tell you that it’s not cheap to have shirts printed. More shirts, more sizes, more colors in the print, plus multiple locations (ie front, back, sleeve) is gonna make that dollar amount go up. So that cost, plus any merch fees a venue might place on a band kind of justifies bands having to sell shirts for 40-50 bucks

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Also a solid point to bring up. Back when I was doing merch for FEA and Live Nation over 10 years ago, our cost per shirt was between $6-8 per tee, and they were charging $30+ per shirt back then. Can't imagine what costs are now. More like $10-12?

@mf--

8 ай бұрын

You are in a different world paying more than $30 for a tshirt.

@kevmac1230

8 ай бұрын

I bet the shirts won't go down in price.

@partymarty6969

8 ай бұрын

How much does it cost to host the show? And how many tickets can you sell? Those are the only questions that matter. Everything else is secondary (merch sales, concessions, vendors, meet & greets, VIP seating, music streaming, etc). Everything has gotten more expensive and one the biggest expenses are travel expenses. Music venues and event organizers need to adapt with the times and stop dwelling on past. EVERY show does not need to so traditional. Music venues can also host WATCH PARTIES, HYBRID CONCERTS (virtual performer, LIVE audience). People need to wake up. The future is here. The fact you’re reading this says A LOT.

As someone in a small local band, This was a very educational video to watch... Of course most of your videos I watch are.

I learned of the Live Nation news via Zach Myers' tweet (Shinedown). His reaction was...incredulous at best. Bands know there was always gonne be a catch and they were right on top of it.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t extend it past the EOY. Just a temp measure to make people think they won and be happy then go back to what they are doing. If it does become a long term thing, they will definitely try to make up that revenue loss somewhere else. Maybe we won’t see increased ticket fees if it’s only a 3 month thing but LN isn’t gonna only do a tax write off for if it goes on longer then EOY.

@user-do2ev2hr7h

8 ай бұрын

Here's the thing: they don't need to add fees per se, they can just bake it into the price of tickets themselves.

MBA here - make no mistake when big companies do things like this its to get government regulators off their back so they can continue to be a monopoly.

As someone in MN, my shows are at The Armory, First Ave and all their venues, Amsterdam, and a few others. I haven't been to Varsity and I think I've been to The Fillmore once. I definitely fell for the PR, but that's why we got you on KZread Tank 🤘

Hope bands can get something like a union with other bands so merch cuts will be a thing in the past. This seems like very good PR for something that only last until the end of the year in certain venues. Bands and fans should continue the fight to get rid of the merch cuts.

@DamageInc86

8 ай бұрын

Bands should band together, pun intended, and pool together to buy OUTRIGHT a local venue and just run it themselves.

@sirgavalot

8 ай бұрын

It's not a bad idea, unionisation seems to be training a lot of popularity in the US right now, at least in the hospitality and car industries, perhaps it will spread

@partymarty6969

8 ай бұрын

Don’t hold your breath. It’s much easier to avoid LN than it is to start a global union for bands. Besides, there’s other ways to offer merch to avoid the merch % and there’s other venues to play when booking your tour.

Glad this is being discussed. Thanks for the insight, all!

Tank you probably won't see this but I just recently found your channel, and I gotta say you are a brilliant and well spoken guy, and as a 26 year old burn out you've inspired me to really buckle down and pursue a career in live music production. Thanks for the great content and deep insight into the industry.

Thanks Tank! I really appreciate you breaking it down and making it understandable. And you're right, the spotlight is on the bands regarding price of merch

From one roadie to another, thanks so much for covering this!

Thanks for keeping a watchful eye.

Saludos from Florida, Tank! This was a very interesting coverage. And THANK YOU for all you do for this community. ☕✌️😎

I found your channel after the festival debacle video, enjoy the content. We appreciate the industry insight from the trenches.

Genius PR move - LN effectively moved the spotlight off of them, and onto the bands (to see if they reduce their merch prices)

@marctowersap8018

9 ай бұрын

yeah, which kinda screws the big name artists who aren't playing at those small venues and are still losing revenue to the venue. coloado has really just two venues, the marquis, a small venue, and the summit, a little bigger venue. I've never heard of the moon room, looking at pix of it, its the same place artists sell merch inside the summit.

Thank you tank I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this same exact things about this

Great video, and thanks for the information Tank!

Thank you for your insight on this. Always cool to see someone within the industry putting their take out there. Knowing LN and their practices in the past, there is definitely an underlying reason behind this program.

I can't afford to go to Live nation shows anymore due to the crazy Extra fees.

I knew there was more to the story on this, lol Thanks for being a voice of reason as always Tank

Really digging the Sing it Loud Tee you have on in the picture! Brings back some good memories

For the tour I’m on the band has gotten their full guarantee and $1,500 on top of it; it was $750 in Shell Gas Cards and $750 cash from all the LN venues we played at that qualified under this.

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Very interesting and good to know. Thanks, man!

@thephoenixhasflown

8 ай бұрын

LOL guess who owns Shell?

@RLGArtist

8 ай бұрын

Just seen Lacuna Coil receive this and it has helped them massively. They are from Italy and it costs them a ton to come over to the states to play. Soooo I mean this is very helpful for bands like that.

This is the first video I've watched from your channel. I love your nuanced and deep take on something as important as this. Easy subscribe.

Love your channel, presentation of info

I always loved the random venue guy in the corner keeping tabs on what you sold. Lol

They will probably pass this on as additional fees to fans who buy tickets. The result will be fewer ticket sales.

I enjoy your videos and thank you for sharing this information with all of us.

This is by far my favorite channel!

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Thanks Tank!

Ty so much Tank. All I get us that ticket prices are going up. And that ok to a pont.

I love your honesty

I’m a music student studying sound engineering with the plan to open a venue in my city for the local college to have a safe space for their students to play. A lot of the places are just bars that are sketchy. One guy went missing a few years back at one of them that is the main one, and it’s known by locals as a sketchy place. One of the main things I want to bring in principally is no merch fees. I want to know more about the economics of how venues can be more fair to artists while still staying in business with healthy enough margins

@cheramiejoubert

8 ай бұрын

Raise awareness, do your business plan and start finding your crew to handle security, bartending, and management. It takes incredible people that come together to cohesively and consistently run a venue well. It's as a labor of love.

I’ve hit 15 shows this year and $50 was the most expensive shirt I bought. The best price was $30. Buckethead didn’t even sell merch this last week at his show. I did get a Spider-Man action figure and some glow in the dark spider rings.

I always remember one old adage in these situations: "The house always wins!"

Like your channel Tank. I worked for Fantazma and Cellar Door as an artist in the 80's. Jon Stolll and Jack Boyle have passed. They owned the aformentioned concert promo companies. This was in S. Florida

@patm5086

9 ай бұрын

I'm glad I come from a time and place when live showbiz was uncomplicated. There was no merch. Live sound was punchier bc of analog gear and not reverb/echo overload. Oh shit! I'm showing my age

Great video! Love the topic

Here in Australia we have Crew Care, and ARCA, (Australian Road Crew Association). Over covid the Australian Government donated a few million dollars to help out Crew Care. I have toured here and OS for 40 years, (Guitar Tech, Stage Manager), and this is the first time the government has helped the industry

The Fillmore in Denver probably is a venue merch setup. Every time I buy merch from their it's the same people behind the counter. Summit and Marquis are both artist run.

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

It is 100% a venue sells building, you're right.

I’m glad I pulled out the industry earlier this year. After 14 years. Absolutely drained my soul. Pandemic helped me see that. Moved into software instead. Higher pay and I don’t need to leave the house if I don’t want too 😂 also allowed to just hop to another country and work from there if I want too as well.

When I first heard word of this breaking... I also was skeptical. It's funny, because one of the first thoughts I had AFTER that... was what your thoughts would be on it, because I knew you would have some insight. And I couldn't agree with you more. I have worked with bands here in Minneapolis on the local level for many years, although it's totally a "nice to have" income when I do it at this point, which honestly is rare. But I'd love to catch up with you at some time for a chat on the subject.... I'm sure there a ton of stories to be swapped.... Love the channel!

Friendly reminder that corporations are REQUIRED by shareholders to grow the business every year.. this comes from someone who works for a corporation

@kylie-chan

9 ай бұрын

Exact reasons I feel they should stop allowing businesses to be publicly traded

@regulator18E

8 ай бұрын

In Burwell v Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. (2014), the Supreme Court stated that “Modern corporate law does not require for profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else”.

@kylie-chan

8 ай бұрын

@@regulator18E well thank you for pointing that out. I've always been told to the contrary but I did look into it and you are very right. Though I do think it's a something that should be avoided it still adds extra reasons for them to screw over the little guy though I know not much is gonna stop that.

@regulator18E

8 ай бұрын

@@kylie-chan I just learned it myself. I thought the same as you 😆

I saw Dethklok & Babymetal at the Fillmore in Denver a couple days ago, and I couldn't believe shirts were $45 & hoodies were $75, and there was an hour long line of people waiting to buy. I would buy a shirt or two back when they were $25, but with those prices and $15 beers, no thanks.

@bonzaihb3432

9 ай бұрын

WTF? Those prices are insane! Being from Germany, I'm used to pay 15-25€ for a shirt and maybe 40-50€ for a hoodie. Nightwish in 2018 was charging i think 40€ for a T-shirt - thanks, but no thanks... Festival shirts this year 25€, that's on the edge I'm willing to pay. Edit: oh yes, beer prices: used to be 4,50€-5€ for 0,4l, now it's up to 6€ or more - plus 2€ deposit on the cup (fair enough), but most of the time the cups are not even filled to the legal mark...

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Also keep in mind that the Fillmore in Denver is a venue sells place.

@BentonHart

9 ай бұрын

@@TankTheTech Not surprising. I'd love to see more bands book at the Mission Ballroom in Denver, since it's nearly identical in capacity(3,950) and a much nicer facility. It's owned by AEG though, and I can't imagine they're any better.

thank you for breaking this down tank, filled alot of blanks i didn't/wouldn't know otherwise cheers!

Live Nation is a huge monopoly that us the consumer allowed to grow😊

@JanneBernards

9 ай бұрын

We as the consumers can't do anything about it. We as voters, in theory, can. Monopolies are just the logical end state of capitalism. The only thing that can counter that is strong regulations. And for that you need strong non-corrupt governments.

@adamwells6079

9 ай бұрын

@@JanneBernards this. Regardless of industry, monopolies will always happen in unregulated environments regardless of what the consumer wants.

@muziktrkr

8 ай бұрын

If Ticketmaster and Live Nation can be charged with racketeering, there would be a massive swarm of Attorney Generals, Senate and House members doing a pretty fast takedown. This is something an entertainment attorney would have to discuss on Tank's show (as far as the possibility of a takedown would go), and am reminded about those lame vouchers Live Nation gave out a decade ago as part of their "settlement". Yes, something can be done but it's going to take a joint effort to do it and artists boycotting Live Nation/Ticketmaster run venues...and that goes further back to the Pearl Jam debacle of the mid 90s where they didn't get much support.

@partymarty6969

8 ай бұрын

@@JanneBernardsAs consumers: Choose not to consume (demand will decrease) As musicians: Choose independent venues when touring As event organizers: Book popular bands that don’t require ticketing via LiveNation. Event organizers can also host watch parties and listening parties inside movie theaters. You gotta work smarter to survive today’s economy.

Thanks for your Intel. Bravo Zulu 👍🏻🤘✌️

Agreed with you and arenas. I mentioned to you before I worked at AT&T Center and handled cash for all food and merch booths. We did have our own employees that worked the merch booths on multiple levels and sometimes at outside. They got there early and stayed late to count, so they have to be paid for working.

The part about the new hidden fees is almost guaranteed, and it won't be labeled. They already charge a bullshit service fee on every ticket bought that is usually $12-15 on small venue GA tickets, maybe a facility fee, and also an "order processing fee" which makes no sense because I'm already paying a service fee. Bands that charge $30 for tickets but I end up paying $50 per ticket because tax and fees. What should have been $70 for myself and a friend ends up being $100+. They'll just increase the service fee even though they're ripping us off anyways. Edit: Also my thoughts on the promo ending at the end of 2023. It's a trial period. Their fiscal year ends on December 31st, so they started the promo at the start of Q4, and they'll run it through the end of Q4 find out how their profits are impacted. Either it's too big a loss and they can claim "well it was only until the end of 2023," or they see the potential to upscale and make it more permanent. You can also see, with the announcement their stock rose nearly 5 points which is huge for their shareholders. Follow the money.

When I saw Zebra in concert you paid the band members directly for the merch Zelle Venmo etc. . That's the first I've seen that.

Your gold..great insight to listen to

Great episode! I’ve been working as an LD on the club level for the last 15 yrs and LN and their practices have slowly sucked the soul out of the industry I love. I applaud you for bringing them to light with the fans who love these bands and aren’t aware of these things. Can you do one on their resale market scam next. Owning Ticketmaster and the venue allows them to purchase a majority of the tickets and then put them up for an inflated resale price with the resale company they started to compete with the other resellers. That practice is ruining it for fans and artists alike.

Yeahhhhh- merch prices wont be going down on the band side ha. Great points here! Thanks for making these vids, man!

Venue sell fee also includes handling sales taxes on merch where applicable which can be a huge compliance headache. Thanks dude love your channel!

Been waiting for this video since seeing the headlines pop up. My initial concern when first seeing this is how many areas with non participating venues will get skipped over by bands and how will independently owned venues compete? That said, I'm definitely in favor of bands being able to keep all of their merch profits if they sold it themselves.

@DamageInc86

8 ай бұрын

Can the independent venues not charge merch fees as well though?

@dtpfeiffer

8 ай бұрын

@@DamageInc86 I would hope they will adopt the same merch policy, but doubt they are going to chip in an extra $1500 per band for every show

@DamageInc86

8 ай бұрын

@@dtpfeiffer wouldn't the band just play like normal and keep their merch? Lol.

Oooh as soon as I saw your insta story regarding this, I was hoping/waiting for you to do a video on it.

Playing at the Observatory next week (part of the Livenation program) so we will see how it works with merch and logistics

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

Great people working at that venue. I'm sure it'll be fine!

@thestew57

9 ай бұрын

@@TankTheTech Hope so, its one of my favorite places to go to shows. Actually saw you and the guys from Callboy there. Super fun show, minor video wall sync issue.. I was like damn thats a big video wall haha

The fact that venues take a cut of our merch is disgusting and should never have been a thing.

Thanks Tech. Good to know.

thank you for this video and bringing to light so many concerns that need to be raised. However, I tried sharing this on Social Media and have already had more than 1 of my posts taken down, and my accounts restricted. Why? I can only guess, but of course there is no explanation given.

Wishful thinking, but I wish bands would just all......band together......(yeah, you see what I did there) and stop touring for a year, with no Covid-19 bailout money it would seriously hurt Live Nation, AEG, ticketmaster. Sadly it would fuck over booking, crews, agents and the smaller guys also, I don't see a way out of this one since these mega promoters now control all the venues that were once privately owned. It's just a sad situation all around. I used to love smaller club shows, but those are anything but small now. I've been struggling with live music for the past 5 years or so and it's just not worth it as a fan anymore.

@sheryljohnson6602

9 ай бұрын

I think you're on to something there. It would hurt the bands temporarily, much like covid did, but it might help the entire industry in the long run. As it is, there are so many of us out here who just can't even dream of being able to afford to go to a concert anymore- much less buy merch. I've been going to concerts and festivals since the 70's (yeah, I'm old), but my last show was Bloodywood/A Killer's Confession two years ago. The tickets were only about $30 each. By the time all the fees were paid, it came to almost $70 a ticket- and those were the least expensive tickets we had seen in a VERY long time. We were lucky we had the money at the time, but we haven't been able to see anyone else since, and if something doesn't change, I doubt I will be able to see any live shows in the future, other than local bands playing local bars.

Great points made

Your comment about the merch prices. I totally agree. I've been to number of LiveNation events, both arena and club shows, and was shocked at the price of some of the shirts. I'm talking $60+ CDN for a t-shirt. I'm happy to pay for up and coming bands, but bigger artists, come on. I'll be going to an indie venue (Unleash the Archers show actually), and am very curious to see if there will be a difference and what that difference will be. I looked at the other dates for this tour for the Archers, and the LiveNation shows are about $15 more than my local show, which is at a non LiveNation venue. Very interesting indeed.

I was part of doing merchandise for a lot of different festivals and other events. We just had one person contacting our manager and they just told us how they wanted it set up. We counted everything. Count in and count out.

Thank you Tank for the realism! LN has ruined my ability to support my favorite bands. The ticket fees and what they do to bands behind the scenes really put me off. I admit I would sometimes benefit from former crew mates when they would swing through southern New England, unfortunately they have all passed on. Fyi the last t-shirt I bought was 25$ in 2019, from a Mass Concerts venue, the Worcester Palladium. Recently caught ZZ Top at a LN venue (tix were free) and the shirts were anywhere from 40 to 55. Ended up buying and official Biily F Gibbons self portrait shirt online for 23.99. F^ck LN.

Nah, corporations don't do things out of the kindness of their hearts, because they're corporations, they don't _have_ hearts. "What's the catch?" is the perfect response to news like this. Good video, man!

My current tour has stops in a lot of these venues. It’s gonna be interesting to see how it plays out

Another comment, this is the free pizza in the break room fix that companies give to employees

My friend's band got the $1500 stipend on top of their guarantee, both the opener and the headliner. Like a 1200-cap room that was close to sold out for reference.

Man, you've got big balls.... preach!

Great video. One adjustment to your merch cut calculation: merch cuts are only charged on "soft" merch. Ive never seen a venue take a cut of cds, vinyls, other non wearables, etc.

@ktully

9 ай бұрын

Not trying to be a dick, just wanted to inform you: but venues most certainly do take cuts from music. Ive toured for over ten years as a merchandise manager and the standard deal is 80/20 (artist/venue) soft and 90/10 media (even at a club level SOMETIMES - depending on the venue and bands deal) but mainly u start seeing that deal once u graduate from clubs into 2000+ caps.

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

@DeanLamb - I actually find it extremely surprising that you, as a touring musician, have never seen that happen. When I was doing merch, the standard was 10% on hard goods, which was the CD's, DVD's, Vinyl, etc. Even on this last tour, most of the cuts were 15 or 20% on soft and 10% on hard. Either you've been extremely lucky, or have a better agent than most. Hahaha

@DeanLamb

9 ай бұрын

I've been touring for 10+ years across the US, and I have honestly not once seen a cut of hard merch. This is all news to me!

👀 great video

Ive done the math on tm fees already and its between 18% and 20% as it does fluctuate by venue I'm guessing. Bigger fee on tm usually is bigger venue, the stadiums being closer to 20% and these smaller venues being closer to 18%. I will revisit my comment on my next purchase of a ticket on tm to see if there's additional fees listed or if the percentage of the original fee goes up. Fans are already annoyed with fees. Paying a fee of $75 on a $475 ticket is insane bruh.

Pink had t-shirts for $50 and I really wanted one but I couldn't justify spending $50 on a tshirt. I couldn't believe it.

8:25 I like how for Missouri they list Rose Music Hall and Rose Park as different venues. I’ve played there and I’ve lived in the town those and The Blue Note are located. Rose is just one venue lol. They just have an outdoor stage for some shows. Edit: I want to make a quick note that The Blue Note and Rose at least already weren’t taking merch fees from locals who play there.

@TankTheTech

9 ай бұрын

They, I noticed that for The Summit and The Moon Room at The Summit too. Hahaha

My understanding is that all fees are to be upfront in the pricing of shows now.

It's so hard not to work for live Nation in Kansas City. Very few venues are independent. . Too many times I've decided not to go to a concert because the ticket fees and service fees are just too much!

@BobbyShame86

7 ай бұрын

Same in Philly. 15 yrs in the clubs here. We were lucky enough to organize with IATSE in 2015 because of their horrible pay and practices. I wish all their nationwide venue techs could do the same.

Dude. You make the most "boring" content really interesting and insightful. Shame you're not coming to Sydney with EC.