Asmongold made a video about this called 'Starfield fans are mad I said their game was trash' - kzread.info/dash/bejne/mIaFtKuzeJTOdqg.html He makes a great point in it about how its dumb to blame all of a games problems on a single developer... He also seems to have been told this video was about defending Starfield and criticizing him, which it obviously isn't, but this does help show my point about the way information spreads across the internet, so thanks for that. This is also why there are so many comments about Asmongold and so many dislikes.

@fatsloth9209

4 ай бұрын

I guarantee none of these Asmongold fans who disliked actually watched the video

@salmon1461

4 ай бұрын

@@99splashing77 u guys are trash lol.

@Erexos

4 ай бұрын

Pure cope

@TheAssassin642

4 ай бұрын

​​​@@H2o3G2afuck off, no he didn't. Asmongold's video is not* 2 hours long. He literally says right at the start that he's not going to watch all of it. He then skips through the video to the part where he's mentioned. A very small part of this 2 hour video. Hell, everyone complaining about this being about Emil's backstory did not watch this video. That was only within the last quarter of the video. Fucking hell Edit: a lotta people deleting their comments.

@ddd-op5wy

4 ай бұрын

@@grayearly3116 It's literally not even remotely comparable

I'd argue that the most infamous speech in the history of game development was the "Don't you guys have phones?" one

@molopower2354

4 ай бұрын

No, I think it was the one about microtransactions in mobile games

@neoqwerty

4 ай бұрын

@@molopower2354 A SENSE OF PRIDE AND ACCOMPLISHMENT

@ghah5701

4 ай бұрын

A certain John Romero advert will live forever.

@mixedmattaphors

4 ай бұрын

"And it'll always be online."

@diamondhamster4320

4 ай бұрын

No, it is that one about Maximizing the Monetizationg in video games - "Lets Go Whaling"

The funniest part about 1:52:24 is that when put into context, it is genuinely one of the only times I've heard someone call someone else a cuck and it has legitimate merit.

@melancholicwriter56

9 күн бұрын

For real 😂, he cucked himself in his own analogy

@And-ur6ol

4 күн бұрын

I know :D

The core issue boils down to the fact that the writing simply isn't as good as it was in Morrowind and the earlier titles. Compare New Vegas and F3/F4/F76, there is a massive difference in the quality of storytelling and lorebuilding. The guy catches a lot of irrelevant hate too, but that shouldn't protect him from valid criticism.

@fadmanloki660

Ай бұрын

I agree, but DM'ing him on Twitter or claiming he should be fired is NOT valid criticism. That (as well as pushing against misinformation) is the main point of this video. Also, personal opinion, but despite being pretty bad as a whole, F76 actually has some writing that, although not on NV's level, is still pretty great, especially before they added all the NPCs

@Archaeologyhat

Ай бұрын

@@fadmanloki660 F76 is a very very annoying game because there's bits of it that are really pretty neat but the whole product is less than the sum of its parts

@PyromancerRift

Ай бұрын

He probably lead a team of people. Bethesda employees are not as good as some other company. Fireing him alone would not change anything.

@pacemaker9483

29 күн бұрын

​@@PyromancerRift True, but he's one of the seniors and he has influence over who gets into those teams he's leading. He was a lead designer and writer in Starfield and he is largely responsible for the outcome.

@pixelcount350

29 күн бұрын

​@@pacemaker9483I can't say i agree with you which is why this makes what you say highly subjective. Don't you mean it's not as strong to you cause i find Starfield writing to be far superior to any of the Elder Scrolls game with the exception of Morrwind.

I'm late for the discussion, but just as a buried record, the current complaints about Emil didn't start with that Reddit post, although it did probably popularize them. A quick search on archives of /v/ of Emil Pagliarulo will result in similar accusations about his writing at least since 2015. Links to his speech too, after it came out.

@mattwcook9127

15 күн бұрын

Dude. He was the head writer for some of the worst written triple A games ever. He's not some small independent author who is getting shit on because people woke up one day and decided to bully him. He's a part of a multimillion dollar company that charges a premium for their products. He deserves criticism, and it's not the critics' fault if he can't handle it. Maybe he should step down, at least to a more secondary role like he had before Fallout 3.

@tylersouza

15 күн бұрын

@@mattwcook9127 Even if he deserves criticism, how can you justify after watching this video the insane levels of harassment made at him, and the completely bad faith arguments people have made due to MISSINFORMATION. I say Missinformation because there is no way to argue that what has been presented here does not ammount to a heap of missinformation directed at his character. And aside from that, hes just a fucking writer for the games. Hes not the business guy, hes not an investor in Bethesda or Zenimax. Yeah hes probably rich so hes not going to suffer or starve because of bullying, but I find it pretty disingenuous on your part to blame him for business decisions Bethesda makes which are out of his control. I personally also don't love Fallout 4's main story, but I just think this guy should be left alone man. Criticize the story, but don't harass this guy.

@materg7505

13 күн бұрын

@@tylersouza Define what you mean by criticism and harassment? I’ve noticed NKB and people who say the things you do frequently label criticism they don’t like as harassment.

@tylersouza

13 күн бұрын

@@materg7505 Ok. So NKB shows clips from these three KZreadrs and all of them from what I saw multiple times insult Emil NOT based on his writing, but rather purely throw ad hominems and verbal abuse which are not at all "constructive criticism." Some of these guys are crazy like they're foaming at the mouth calling him names like they seem to genuinely hate the guy, and I think this actually distracts from whatever point they were trying to make about his writing. They also seem to conflate him as a writer as being at fault for literally everything wrong with Bethesda. And in turn it seems like people are always harassing him on his Twitter. Yeah I know I know, I dont like the stupid Nate tweet either, but aside from that he seems to be a chill guy over there never trying to get into arguments and just tweeting boomer-y stuff about his family and work, but he can't tweet even a simple thing without receiving hundreds of hateful responses every day.

@Puerco-Potter

12 күн бұрын

​@materg7505 when you stop talking about the work and start talking about the person it is harassment. The moment they insult him and not his work it starts being wrong. As simple as that.

I heard that NeverKnowsBest made this video without using design documents...

@huttie2342

4 ай бұрын

Trust me bro, he gave a speech years ago where he admitted that he doesn't use design documents for ANY of his videos. Therefore he should be fired!

@NaturalEntertainer85

4 ай бұрын

Lmao good one 😄

@sinoxilurk4126

4 ай бұрын

would explain why its so bad

@macewindu5195

4 ай бұрын

@@huttie2342why is there a magic time limit on statements

@poppag8281

4 ай бұрын

@@huttie2342 I mean god forbid we listen to what people say at a very public conference

So, I know I should have moved passed this by the 42 minute mark, but it keeps bothering me. The notion that suspicion is infantile boggles the mind. As a person who has kids, I would say the biggest problem with infants and toddlers is that they are too trusting. Adults are suspicious of strangers, children are not. If children were naturally suspicious then parents wouldn't have to teach their kids about stranger danger, because it would already be a natural instinct. How does a person come up with something so nonsensical? Actually, how can you write a sentance judging the inherent worth of any emotion without questioning your own sanity in the first place?

@leonidaspereirafilho499

4 ай бұрын

He is British. He doesn't use his mind to think.

@ChrisPTenders

4 ай бұрын

Dyslexia is a hell of a thing.

@Igorooooleynikov

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, it is especially weird because never knows best has like, more than 3 kids for sure.

@FleshWizard69420

4 ай бұрын

All that energy goes into teeth growth​@@leonidaspereirafilho499

@PraiseSteezus

4 ай бұрын

Are you all commenting having not watched the video? It was the reddit post that said that, not NeverKnowsBest

Welcome, all those who keep coming back to monitor the situation.

@liesideways

4 ай бұрын

Grass is outside, and on the Play Store as well if you're willing.

@mathers000

4 ай бұрын

You mean to second monitor the situation

@GothaBillsAndDeath

4 ай бұрын

@@liesidewaysI'm a Disco Elysium man myself.

@liesideways

4 ай бұрын

@@Russian_engineer_bmstu here is your "you tried" trophy 🏆

@liesideways

4 ай бұрын

Bro is still trying to make his epic comeback 🙄

Emil's story telling is bad. Its objectively true (I say this as he is the head of the writing department and an overall quality of his videogame story telling someone has to take the fall. It's ok to be a meh writer. writers are a dime a dozen everywhere on the street. Not everyone is a Josh Sawyer or a Chris Avellone.), but this does not warrant a witch hunt. He shouldnt be fired, or even harrassed. However fans do believe his role needs to be spreadout or at least assisted so we can have something done about the lackluster story telling. He can be a good writer, anyone can with a little help, someone at your side to tell you no and a lot less yes men.

@GHOSTRIDER373737

6 күн бұрын

See, here's the problem. Everyone keep asking for better writers but nobody ask who should they bring aboard (except maybe Chris Avellone, but there's some evidence that he might not be the easiest person to work with), I think lots of people don't understand how writing for games work. Most video game don't have writer, they had narrative designer. You don't write video games like a story, You write FOR a video game like making excuse why the game mechanics is the way it is. And this type of jobs usually are for game designers and not delicate writers, so you don't see a lots of studio posting jobs for game writer. I bet most people probably can't even name a few video game writers if I ask them. The way I see it writing for video game is less like a job and more like a perk for the game designers. But you really have a problem with this guy's writing and think you can do a better job than you are more than welcome to try on Creation Kit or GECK to built your own mod and write your own story, some modders actually land their job in Bethesda because of it. I saw some aspiring writers rage on this guy and cry as if they think they should had been the one to do the writing and it was really sad.

@boogame272

6 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 here’s the thing about that yes the writing around the games mechanics is 100% in tune with development. The issue is Bethesdas lack consistency on their own titles. When they design they design with the intent of having their most recent game be a good starting point since they take long development cycles. This is a good thing. It brings a new fresh experience and perspective of the franchise. However, this alienates the original player base to some degree. Certain aspects are cut out and reintroduced as new “mechanics” or all together removed for the sake of “ease of access”. I could go down the list skills, unique perk builds with a level cap, unique animations and abilities earned by traversing the world and speaking to various npc’s/doing quests. The list goes on. I think the issue may not be Emil all the way. But Bethesda’s writers need to stop wiping the slate clean Every. Single. Game. I don’t believe I could do better but I should call out a problem that I do see. I believe it’s not out of the blue that many, MANY players believe the writing to be subpar. Especially when these game franchises are built upon existing IP’s… there is no reason for such mediocrity and lack of care for even their own inventions such as the institute and railroad. Again I personally believe Emil can be a good writer, perhaps even better than a majority of triple A studios lead designers. But Bethesda will always be shackled down to simplicity and ease of access rather than innovative thinking and player agency. Their games hold out hands too much. You know this. I know this. Anyone who has played a mainline Bethesda title knows this. This isn’t coming from a place of hate. I just want them to be better lest they create another game like starfield, half baked, devolved in many gameplay aspects from even fallout 4, and lackluster in terms of writing in general.

@a_rat_named_mouse

4 сағат бұрын

​@@GHOSTRIDER373737 I tried, but as a writer who is helping write for a game me and my friends are making, this is just... well, fucking stupid. There are TONS of great non-visual novel/text-based games out there that are written like stories; the Yakuza, Nier and Devil May Cry series all immediately spring to mind. These are all more action-oriented games with straight-forward story-telling -you get the quest, you complete a task, see a cutscene and get the next quest. And yet their main plots are solid and well-realized. Then you have games like Baldur's Gate, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic or Fallout: New Vegas, in which you run around choosing dialogue options and more actively interacting and changing the plot's direction. Silent Hill 2 is famous for its deep and thought-provoking story, its details shrouded in mystery- and yet the plot itself doesn't have much it the way of flexibility beyond which ending you get. You either piece together the details or you don't. Dark Souls and Elden Ring have richly fleshed out settings you learn about in the fine print, Dragon's Dogma has a profound story you only begin to explore after defeating what initially seems to be the final boss, The World Ends With You has its main gameplay mechanic of controlling two characters at the same time directly link to the themes of its story- Man, there is SO MUCH you can do with clever writing. Don't discredit how much work and time and thought people put into these things. Lastly, it doesn't matter if people can or cannot "do a better job". What, say you go to a restaurant and order a steak and they give you a crunchy, crispy black thing that tastes like ashes. Would you complain because you're a paying customer who ordered something edible? Or would you force it down, thank them and tip them because they're the ones being paid to do the job and you don't know how to cook?

A lot of people don't realize that this video isn't just about defending a game developer from baseless accusations and occasional bullying, but is also about the broader issues of blindly believing in "authorities" and people wanting an effigy to cast sole blame towards. The focus of the video isn't even about defending the writing of the game.

@tauiin

4 ай бұрын

yeah, the actual quality of emil's writing is barley touched on (seemingly intentionally) because the point isnt "emil isnt that bad" but rather "holy shit leave this guy alone what is wrong with you people"

@BicBoi1984

4 ай бұрын

How's anything talked about in the video bullying though? It's a public criticism.

@Taler99PL

4 ай бұрын

@@BicBoi1984 Based on lies and mischaracterization

@Harry-by8ut

4 ай бұрын

​@@BicBoi1984ah yes, such insightful criticism like 50:57

@zachhiggins1668

4 ай бұрын

​@@BicBoi1984I wish we would stop using the term bullying and instead call it what it is: abuse. Bullying sounds like some trivial kid problem, some cute slang word. But what we're really talking about is manipulative, cowardly, abuse.

Interesting, I've never interpreted the 🤓 emote as the "boomer" emote, I usually interpret as the "well actually" emote if you know what I mean.

@CrazyxEnigma

4 ай бұрын

Same.

@margierules000

4 ай бұрын

🤓

@hatemeister

4 ай бұрын

yeah like a nerd emote 🤓

@CursedSFMS

4 ай бұрын

Well actually 🤓

@SiriusSphynx

3 ай бұрын

Same.

Positive man good, critical man bad!

@MattTheriot

3 күн бұрын

Yeah, OP here has some sort of brain tumor that makes him think all that matters is positivity. I bet Bethesda would trade a little of that positivity for some of their $200 million back, and us gamers would gladly trade some positivity for an actual good game. It's an infantile soyboy view of the world that the people who say the meaner sound words, regardless of if they are true, are the bad ones, and the people providing immense loss of money and value to their company and customers are the good ones as long as they are nice. Imagine if Emil was a cop that beat someone a little too hard and they died. And they went on twitter talking about how being a cop is really hard and they don't deserve the hate.

@a_rat_named_mouse

4 сағат бұрын

​@@MattTheriot "Hello viewers, today I will be talking in a calm, soft-spoken and definitely not pretentious manner while vilifying people necause they're mean to my ex's boyfriend."

The amount of bethesda bootlickers is absolutely insane when they have nothing to defend this company or this "writer" with. Defending a company that false advertises, lies, is greedy, devoid of any passion and releases broken products. This guy has to be paid for this

I still think that "most infamous speech in gaming" title goes to "Let's go whaling". The whole thing is all about saying the quiet parts aloud.

@ImortalZeus13

4 ай бұрын

Im unaware, but did the guy who made that speech get harassed en masse in perpetuity?

@DevonDekhran

4 ай бұрын

@ImortalZeus13 Actually, yes, very much so. Honestly, the only harassment I'm a hypocrite for

@Noqtis

4 ай бұрын

@@ImortalZeus13 I harassed that mf and I would do it again. You fuck with ma games, I fack with yo mom. This is the way.

@SweetPeteInTheBackSeat

4 ай бұрын

There's a surprising pretty good remix song of it called You're Not Supposed To Do This by Grimbeard that I really like. Industrial beats about the general idea of it all

@Noqtis

4 ай бұрын

@@SweetPeteInTheBackSeat thanks, bro. amazing lil piece.

The whole "Great games are played not made" thing really frustrates me because it's a great point about extensive playtesting and how the player's experience is what comes first, not the designer's vision. It's just hard to believe they applied that philosophy to Starfield when the best part of any Bethesda game (picking a direction and walking until you find something interesting) is actively discouraged by how segmented the "open world" is.

@chugnuts4208

4 ай бұрын

if gaben or anyone from valve said that then they would be praised

@thatokperson

4 ай бұрын

@@chugnuts4208 yeah I mean as they said it poses a good point? Did you get the original comment isn't criticising the quote?

@KragV

4 ай бұрын

They didn't necessarily try to apply it to Starfield, it's just a rule that Emil himself follows when writing and nothing more.

@chugnuts4208

4 ай бұрын

@@thatokperson i was just agreeing with him lol

@godofnanners3740

4 ай бұрын

the big thing to remember here is that you don't know what happened in development. To me this sounds like a tech limitation and not design. Most people always blame design but design always have to budge to budget and tech cuts, there is no way around it or point you can do to change it. What I think happened is that Bethesda just doesnt have the tech to pull of the starfield experience they wanted to create and they don't have the reputation to higher the tech people they needed to take the tech were it needed to be. Add on the pressure of XBOX not having a hit game on their console yet and you end up with Starfield.

30 minutes into the video, started reading the comments section. Trying to figure out what was actually said in the video and what has been said in response to it and what criticisms correspond to things actually said in the video is the most surreal, disorienting experience

@koopanique

3 ай бұрын

Same here bro. It's so strange

@SabbyNeko

2 ай бұрын

A lot of this video is just circling one or two points for way too long, with the occasional dishonestly edited clip to back them up. I don't mind long essays but the length here is hurting an already poor argument.

@Meurth

2 ай бұрын

Maybe you'll understand the video better if you watch the video? Wtf does this comment even mean?

@gardian06_85

2 ай бұрын

Starts watching a 2 hour and 18 minute video about misinformation. stops 30 minutes in to get the "facts" from the comment section. This is what is wrong with intellectual discourse. he is showing the time stamps for his excerpts in the video, maybe if you podcasted it, but really.

@Kevin-jb2pv

Ай бұрын

Yeah, this video is so petty, full of misrepresentations and outright lies, and oozing with cope that I had to unsub. This is just pathetic.

Not only emil, but bethesda as a whole is responsible for the decline of their games. This vision of simplifying things to make them more accessible for the players (believing that they are too stupid to understand harder games) are what lead to the collapse of Fallout and Starfield, and why after more than 13 years we still dont have another Elder scrolls.

@GHOSTRIDER373737

23 күн бұрын

Collapse? Starfield was one of last year's best-selling game, Fallout games player counts are at an all-time high right now because of the new show. We still don't have a new Elder Scroll because Bethesda is actually a rather small team. They can't work on Starfield, Elder and Fallout all at the same time.

@captain4318

19 күн бұрын

> and why after more than 13 years we still dont have another Elder scrolls. Euh yeah, because they made 3 massive other games in the meantime? lol I guess Rockstar is collapsing as well, no new GTA in roughly 13 years.

@modest_spice6083

15 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 And it's also one of those games whose player count dropped hard after the first few weeks. Even BG3 now has a larger player base than Starfield, and that game was released a month earlier. It was also released to negative user reviews, with most citing the bland writing, story, characters and factions and with some lambasting its lackluster exploration and space travel aspects. I guess it's good that BG3 was released earlier, because people had a comparison as to what a proper RPG with good writing would be.

@GHOSTRIDER373737

15 күн бұрын

@@modest_spice6083 Starfield was never released with negative reviews, it was mixed at its worst. And the player counts drop argument never holds water, because that's how all singleplayer games works, Resident Evil 4 Remake and Hogwarts Legacy drop just ad much if not more, not to mention Bauldr's Gate 3 actually had multiplayers so I don’t believe this comparison works at all.

@modest_spice6083

15 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 Skyrim has a larger player count on Steam right now mate. Starfield is blander than Skyrim, I presume?

*Written during the intro:* Oh hey my shitty little thumbnail made it into the opening of the video! Wait... shit that means I'm in this video... So does being called out by a larger channel for doing something stupid mean that I'm a real KZreadr now? I will admit I have used Emil's Image in a negative light for that thumbnail, and it was because I was referencing *The Speech* directly, I'm not personally familiar with the reddit post you were talking about but I did try to focus primarily on my opinions of the content of the speech and talk about the game development process rather than taking down Emil Specifically. Like I wasn't calling for him to be fired or harassed or anything, and I tried to acknowledge that Bethesda's issues likely stem from a lot of upper management positions rather than the power of any one man. My main goal was mostly to just talk about the importance of Game Design Documentation (based on what I saw at the time) and the various aspects of *The Speech* that I disagreed with. *Written after going over the reddit post:* Holy shit. Yeah I was worried that I was being bad for giving Emil a couple of jabs when I was focusing on specific issues I have with bethesda's design process. This Nun guy went WAY too far. I will acknowledge that it is entirely possible if not probable by using *The Speech* as a source and the way that I framed my initial video I likely if not certainly may have contributed towards some of the hate towards Emil, but harassing him, let alone to that degree, was never my intention. I do think that there are legitimate things to criticize about *The Speech*. For instance I think that his description of the themes of fallout show that the story for that game was executed fairly poorly and that it didn't take full advantage of the systems the games had. i.e. if the theme of the game was about suspicion then why were there no mechanics to actually make me suspicious of whether a given NPC was a synth or not. But trying to find an excuse to complain about every single second of *The Speech* and frame every single sentence negatively is just excessive, pointless, and in bad faith. Like you did at the start one can just go over the key points and your opinions on them and be done with it. Going the extra length to try and 'prove' that the subject of the speech is somehow an inherently competent person is just irrelevant and unnecessary and harmful. *Written After the Creetosis bit:* Honestly yeah this feels like more of the same from the reddit post. A lot of misplaced anger and bad faith arguments that seem like he just wants more excuses to complain about Emil because if he attributes everything wrong with Bethesda to one man, then the solution to his problem (their games being bad) becomes simple to solve. Fire Emil and their games magically become good! Because if they acknowledge that there are wider issues at the studio, then they have to acknowledge that you cannot simply "fix" bethesda by removing and replacing a single employee among thousands. And thus you have to be worried that future games may suffer from the same problems whether they fire him or not. In fact, I'm kinda glad now in retrospect that my more popular video so far was the one that was more specifically talking just about Design Documentation as a concept and how it's used in making games, rather than my video specifically talking about points from *The Speech* or even really Starfield in general. *Written During/After the PatricianTV bit:* So yeah I've been using the term "Game Design Document" a lot both here and in my videos but I have clarified in my content and I'm glad you point out that a modern day GDD is rarely just a big master word doc with everything written down in it. Like you said it's just not tenable and it's much more common in modern day games to document things through some kind of wiki-like system. It's just easier to refer to these as "GDDs" even if they aren't the classical definition of what they were like in the 90s. But on top of that what's important is to keep it up to date and to make sure that your developers are staying in communication with each other so that everyone actually is staying on the same page. Regardless of what form that documentation takes. And to give Patrician one piece of credit, I don't think that he was trying to say that Bethesda needed to be using a 90's version of a GDD. Like I said people still call these Wikis "GDDs" colloquially pretty commonly and even if not everyone knows that I think that it doesn't really matter what form the GDD takes, people thought that Bethesda didn't use Anything at all, wiki or otherwise, which is the issue. So I don't think it was necessary to paint Patrician's argument like he was going off of information from the 90s. Your overall point is still valid of course, he focused way too hard on the "No Design Document" aspect with way too little if any evidence to back up his claim. I'm just say that that one bit is the one part of this video that kinda stood out as a little weird to me. But I do think that it's an interesting situation where the criticisms themselves Patrician makes about the game aren't necessarily wrong or bad. I think that's why people (including myself) liked his video, at least at the time. Regardless of what the real explanation is behind the problems with Starfield, most of the people watching that video would agree that Starfield feels like a disjointed mess. I think many of his subjective critiques are fair and line up with a lot of people's opinions. The issue is that you don't need to necessarily justify your opinions by trying to find a 100% conclusive reason behind why the game is the way it is. If you took out all of the bits of Patrician's Video talking specifically about Emil, *The Speech*, or anything not directly related to the game itself, it would be a perfectly fine (and probably about 3-4 hours shorter) very in-depth review of his opinions on the entire game. *Written after seeing the (unexpected) bit about me specifically (and the twitter stuff):* I'll admit I got shivers from that. The kind of shivers you get when you've been caught with your pants down and your hand in the cookie jar. Yeah I'll admit that that video was made very off the cuff and mostly just was an immediate reaction to the information that Patrician Presented. My Research for it mostly just amounted to watching *The Speech* and taking the other sources Patrician mentioned at his word. And for that, well, I fucked up. But I will point out that my second video on the subject, which was much more scripted and thought out, barely even touches on Starfield or Emil for the vast majority of the video, and like I said is much more specifically about the modern nature of Game Design Documentation that both of us have mentioned already at this point so I won't bother going into more detail here. Though I did touch on the twitter thread near the end, the point I ended up making was just that the main struggles of game development he points out are mostly management related issues and how large-scale games can live or die by how well they are managed. Though of course I will admit I did falter at the very end and reference *The Speech* again for a split second. But I do think that the other 99% of my video is a lot more reasonable and well put together in comparison to some of these examples in this video as well as my own first video on the subject. That said, just because I think I made a better video later still shouldn't excuse my more off the cuff video reacting to Patrician's Video which turned out to be made based on bad information. And as such I think I definitely contributed towards completely unnecessary hate, regardless of what my intention was. *Written after the end:* So yeah, I know that my content was like the farthest from the main point of the video and in the grand scheme of things I'm probably the smallest factor here. But even still I definitely fucked up and feel bad about contributing towards the Emil Hate Train, even if I never intended to point people in that direction. By all means I don't like starfield and I think many of the reasons people bring up are valid. but it is 100% unwarranted to just lay all the blame on one guy, potentially imply all the problems are with one guy, and/or to just assume how a multi billion dollar corporation is run entirely from the outside. I think it's one thing to make statements like "This feels disjointed, thus it feels like it was designed without a document" or something like that, as opposed to things like "This feels disjointed and I 100% definitively know that it was because it was designed without a Document." Unless you're someone like Jason Schreier doing an in-depth investigative report, it's important to not make such definitive statements, and that is definitely something that I'm going to do my best to take to heart in my future videos. So I'll definitely be making an official apology to Emil in the coming days. I really think that it's the least that someone like me could do and I think that it is important to shift the narrative here. The main takeaway isn't that you're saying you can't criticize Starfield or Bethesda's games as a whole, or that any one criticism (about the game specifically) is wrong. By all means people are going to keep criticizing Starfield for months and probably years to come. And I won't deny that I probably will make more videos about Starfield. The important thing is to not blindly place blame on people who don't deserve it without due diligence. And I cannot deny that at the very least to some degree I myself am guilty of this. I don't care if you never read this comment, or if my apology video only gets like 7 views. We need to stop dogpiling on this guy, so like you said at the end, it's the right thing to do.

@josefdinzes9434

4 ай бұрын

It's good that you are stepping up for the right thing. It is frankly insane that Patrician made the central thesis of his video a knowing lie. And then to further go on to harass Emil. He even coyly references trying to do so in the discord q/a. His behavior is even more childish and 4channer during live streams, where he doesn't have a script to contain himself. Just constant insults and bullying. Pathetic behavior.

@fazureofficial

4 ай бұрын

@@BlazeMakesGames Those with actual game dev experience would have some choice words regarding Patrician's methodology

@Funko777

4 ай бұрын

Good job man, more people need to be willing to accept blame (regardless of how insignificant it may be) to set an example for the larger players in the issue. Regardless, it's just being a good human which the world and especially the Internet needs more of now more than ever. We've been learning a lot about just how little fact checking and effort some massive content creators (with big influence) are willing to put into their "work" and how willing they are to step on whomever necessary to simply crawl up an extra 100 subs with Hbomber's recent vid. Keep it up and you've earned a sub

@puellabella3580

4 ай бұрын

Props for owning up to your mistakes. It was nice to see a genuine response, and I can tell by how much you said that you actually cared.

@LuckyLucyHi

4 ай бұрын

Oh my gosh I just saw someone on the internet self-reflect. Did I die?

To answer your question: Redditors cannot read.

@jpx_frd7015

4 ай бұрын

They're extremely good at reading headlines though! That suffices right?

@aloafofshoaf

4 ай бұрын

@@jpx_frd7015 It sure does if all you care about is "updoots"

@PurFoncho

4 ай бұрын

One visit to r/Berserk is all you need to see for yourself.

@Mephilis78

4 ай бұрын

That's why they spell it Reddit, and not Read It

@turbo8628

4 ай бұрын

The genius of this comment is that no redditor will be able to read it. Bravo!

He very publicly has been arrogant and dismissive over the fact that his writing is terrible. The internet is a mean place and videogame fans are rabid and brutal- what else is new? There are far more worthy things to dedicate multi-hour long KZread commentary to rather than running cover for an inept writer rightfully being dragged online for contributing in a major way to the narrative decline of multiple beloved franchises.

@Sindrella.

3 күн бұрын

I come back to this video sometimes because I keep wondering if Emil paid him to defend him so fervently.

Responding specifically to "Which part is wrong?" about his twitter thread: "You don't know who made decisions, who did work" Not technically wrong, but it is IRRELEVANT. We don't need to know those things to see the outcome is bad. "Just know the game you're playing is in some ways a freaking miracle in and of itself!" Imagine if you were driving your Toyota Corolla, fresh off the lot, and while you were on the highway the brakes failed and it accelerated to 120mph. It crashes and you die. Then your widowed wife goes to the dealership very angry and the dealer says "Ma'am, you don't know who did what work, the time pressures they faced, in some ways the car he bought was a freaking miracle!" He's basically just saying "Sorry you think the game sucks but it's HARD guys!". The thing is, Emil, that OTHER PEOPLE can and ARE doing a better job. Games before and after Starfield have WAY better writing, in fact for it's price bracket, Starfield stands out as EXCEPTIONALLY bad writing. So when you embarrass yourself, your company and contribute to a $200 million dollar flop, no one cares to hear how hard your job you get paid VERY good money to do is. If your primary concern was making a good game/product then 1. You would have done a better job and/or called in for backup and told Todd "Hey I need 20 writers STAT". 2. If/when you failed, you wouldn't go on twitter saying how it's not your fault you did a bad job. You'd remain silent and try to fix it and try to fix the process for the next game if BSG is dumb enough to keep you as lead writer. No one can stand people who don't own up to their mistakes. We all (well most of us) have jobs and at exactly NONE of them, when we are given a task and fail to do it do we get to go "but it's HARD, so it's not my fault!". If you can't get it done ASK for help and work on improving your skills ASAP. Regarding his speech. I don't think this is the most infamous speech in gaming history, that would probably be "Sony E3 2006 Genji 2 stage demo - Attack Its Weak Point For Massive Damage!". Maybe that isn't a "speech" per say, in which case I'm not sure, but still don't think this is the most infamous speech in gaming history, very few people care about this in the grand scheme of things. The main takeaways from his speech, for me, is that his approach to writing is very basic, something that shows through in his actual writing. I think if he were one writer among 40 or 50, which was the case in Skyrim, that would be no problem, might have some quests with lackluster writing, or the writing might be passable enough you don't even notice. The problem is on Starfield's credits there are only THREE writers listed, and Emil Pagliarulo is listed as the lead writer. I could certainly see an argument that maybe the poor guy was just way too overworked to do any good writing for Starfield. Only Bethesda could tell us why Emil was the ONLY lead writer with only 2 others to help him, if that's what he wanted, or if they did that against his wishes, either way, the writing sucks and he wrote it, so the blame is on him, it's that simple. You can't fart in a room and when everyone looks at you give a 2 hours speech about how it's not your fault. People are pissed because Bethesda used to make such great games, the writing since Skyrim and Fallout 3 has only gone downhill, but in a 1-2-3 punch Starfield's gameplay and game design has regressed as well. Starfield is such a complete failure it's almost impressive, it's got like 10k active players on steam right now, lower much older Bethesda RPGs like Fallout 4, Skyrim and Fallout New Vegas. To address one of your many points, no of course Emil is not solely responsible for the failure of Starfield, the design of the game is terrible and the gameplay sucks as well. The writing is a standout among all of it's failures so he gets credit mostly for that, whatever percentage you want to attribute that failure to the overall failure pie is subjective. I'm not watching the other 1.5 hours of your video, but if you take issue with people sending threats or harassment, yes we can all agree that goes to far. Telling Emil he's a bad writer and should try something else though is not "harassment" it's just honest and accurate feedback from fans.

@a_rat_named_mouse

4 сағат бұрын

I used to watch Creetosis and seeing this video made me go back to see what's new. As it turns out, Never actually just straight up does to Cree what he says Cree does to Emil and other people. Cutting context and bad faith and all the rest of the nine yards. I am also checking out the other people he talks about in this video. Maybe I'll even subscribe to them.

More than one thing can be true at once: 1. Emil Pagliarulo was the lead writer on projects with bad writing. 2. We should treat people with humanity, even if they're bad at their job.

@Sassssky

4 ай бұрын

Agree, but i dont think telling people they are at bad their job if they are bad at their job is a personal attack. If they care its the opportunity to improve. If they dont care, then they dont care. Your value as a human is not tied to the value you bring to your boss.

@Tom-Pendragon

4 ай бұрын

absolutely true.

@iamwill737

4 ай бұрын

@@Sassssky True but criticism and slander are two different things. If someone is bad at their job then surely you don't need to fabricate claims based on misinterpretation in order to construct your criticism, right?

@lobsterfool6002

4 ай бұрын

@@iamwill737 so everyone that has criticism is fabricating claims, got it.

@Sassssky

4 ай бұрын

@iamwill737 I don't know much about the guy to be honest. Didn't know who he was untill his twitter tirade. I do know starfield wasn't a fun experience for me and the PR from Bethesda has been embarrassingly bad for them. Emils tweets just added on to the Todd Howard optimisation interview and chatgpt steam reviews. I'm not sure what he expected from it but the CDPR or hellogames strategy seemed to work alot better. "were sorry we will fix this," as opposed to "you don't know how to make games so you can't say they are bad." I'm not a PR professional either though so what do I know lmao.

Still watching, but I think the 'most infamous' game related speech is the 'turning players into payers' one.

@TheGlenn8

4 ай бұрын

No that would be "let's go whaling", which in my opinion does deserve the backlash because the guys giving it suggests that what it's about isn't entirely ethical.

@CannedCaineghis

4 ай бұрын

I thought it was the "don't you guys have phones" lol

@Yeehim

4 ай бұрын

@@TheGlenn8 see, that one is so bad I refuse to remeber it exists

@Eassstt

4 ай бұрын

+1 on "Do you guys not have phones"

@bluehornet632

4 ай бұрын

This, like Pagliarulos speech is only used to highlight BGS problems. The Jernstrom speech relates to the entire industries direction.

I respect what you're trying to do here bro, but you're wrong on this one. The world is mad at the nepotism in this industry. Not one of us that paid for these games would be allowed to keep our jobs if the results were as poor as their last showings have been, yet there he is. And I wasn't even aware of this dude until I just watched your video. Again, respect, and love to you, but you're wrong on this one, judging from nothing more than your own video.

@GHOSTRIDER373737

13 күн бұрын

Nepotism is a huge issue, no doubt, but I don't believe you can make a case in this one. Consider the guy has been in the industry for more than 20 years at this point.

This video did not age well after the whole "Nate is a War criminal oopsie"

While personal attacks or threatening anyone is way too far, Pete Heins and Emil's opinions and design processes are pretty good indications of why Bethesda has stagnated when it comes to creativity. The design decisions from these two and other executives have resulted in bland games that constantly contradict themeselves and don't take any risks. I obviously don't think it's Emil's fault alone, but neither do I think he is an especially good lead writer and deserves some criticism when the writing has been a weak point in every game he's been in charge. Critizicing Bethesda is fair, and criticizing Emil as the lead writer is also fair.

@howdyfriends7950

4 ай бұрын

yeah it's valid to criticize someone for the thing they made being bad, but in that case, you should be looking for patterns in the things they've made, not ruthlessly ripping apart their ted talk with facts and logic etc. like let's talk about what's wrong with the games he's been in charge of, as well as other bethesda games, to see if we can deduce whether it's actually him that's the problem, because obviously a AAA dev studio's chain of production is this huge and dynamic thing with so many different hands in creating the final product, it's 100% possible that he's the problem, but as of right now all we really know for sure is that the game is disappointing

@Pangora2

4 ай бұрын

At some point a parent needs to take responsibility for a child constantly misbehaving. Bethesda products have been spiraling down in quality on multiple fronts for generations now. Todd is at least going, So do we just blame no one? People paid money for the game. If the Air Force bombs my house, I can't be upset because we can't determine who is responsible because the project of war involves too many people? If the buck doesn't stop there, point out where it does.

@mario-k.

4 ай бұрын

​@@Pangora2your metaphor is completely out of hand

@silversnail1413

4 ай бұрын

You could make an argument that Emil is responsible for the creative stagnation but I see it in a slightly different way. The games that Emil wrote were undeniably successful. Despite the vocal online criticism for some of the writing decisions, Fallout 3, Skyrim and Fallout 4 were massive sellers and won GOTY. Even Starfield was a pretty huge financial success even though it fell slightly short of expectations. I think Bethesda has fallen into a rut where they're using the same formula over and over. Skyrim, for example, was heavily streamlined from previous games in the ES series but it was arguably the greatest success they had up until that point. So looking at things from the points of view of the higher ups at Bethesda, Zenimax and Microsoft, why would they want to risk altering the proven formula that has already produced successful games? I think corporate meddling plays a much bigger part in this story than people would realize and it's a symptom of a larger culture of mediocrity within the entire industry rather than just Bethesda specifically. It can't all be attributed to just one or two people.

@ImortalZeus13

4 ай бұрын

@@Pangora2 They’re video games. We are talking about video games. Bethesda is not a criminal in need of reformation, or an abuser who needs therapy. We are talking about people who made a sub-par video game. Get ahold of yoursel. “So do we just blame no one?” Yes, actually. You grow up, realize the world is complex and simple answers rarely come, and refuse to blow up one man over a responsibility that was held by hundreds of people.

I spent too many hours diving into this rabbithole. Didn't know who Emil was yesterday.

@christopherhammond5142

4 ай бұрын

Same here. I've spent a couple of days watching and reading stuff now. I feel really sorry for the poor bastard, it seems that the only thing he did was deliver a pretty average speech to his professional colleagues. I'm really just baffled about the degree of hate he cops. I'm a writer myself (not for video games) and it was really easy to understand what he was talking about in his speech, to the point that it feels like his detractors must've intentionally warped what he said because I can't understand how an adult human could accidentally misunderstand something on such a fundamental level.

@ColdHawk

4 ай бұрын

@@eldenvedetta635 - Surely most would agree, one thing that sets “hate” apart from honest criticism is the use of ad hominem attacks. A clear example would be calling people idiots when they don’t share your view rather than conveying a well reasoned argument.

@picahudsoniaunflocked5426

4 ай бұрын

@@TheWasatchCrown Sorry someone was mean to your internet daddy that obv justifies your attitude

@doggfite

4 ай бұрын

Right? And now I unabashedly love Emil and his Internet presence

@ColdHawk

4 ай бұрын

@@TheWasatchCrown - Friend, I have no qualms with someone saying the creator of this video is wrong. I think you did far better than Elden there but still couldn’t refrain from being pejorative with the “high horse” comment. Give your arguments, give your opinion, but impugning someone is not a good way to get a point across. Why don’t you explain a little further what you mean by he is misrepresenting those NKB quotes?

The real design docs were the friends we made along the way

@razorbackroar

2 ай бұрын

lol

@And-ur6ol

4 күн бұрын

I vomited a little inside when i read that

After just watching that clip of the speech for the first time, my main feelings are that it is quite bland, but I suspect people might take issue with the last rule because it could be construed as "players don't care about good storytelling so don't even bother".

@cockatoofan

4 ай бұрын

Given the type of game fallout 3/4 is and that he's speaking as a writer for those games, not as a general writing instructor, I honestly don't see that much wrong with it. Those games were clearly made with the intent that choosing a direction and running into vampires or republic of Dave is the gameplay. That's not to say fallouts formula is perfect or even as good as it gets when games like borderlands exist with practically the same concept (though themes and atmosphere couldn't be further apart for them) If you want to write a game that depends on its main plot heavily or makes you question your beliefs then its not good advise, but when you're developing a world where any point of interest is just one of hundreds; a clear theme makes sense to captivate the player enough to loot and read a bit before continuing

@andrewchapman1494

4 ай бұрын

It's insane people actually think someone who develops/writes games for a living would actually hold that opinion. It's so obvious the point he's making is "game play first" and not "fuck stories, who cares."

@Kinglink

4 ай бұрын

I think you're misunderstanding the last rule, as many people have. It's not "Players don't care" it's "we're in an interactive medium which means players will play at their own rate, and may not consume the story in the exact way you expect them to, so create a universe that tells the story, rather than a single narrative or cutscene. Also basically "Don't create long uninteractive sections of gameplay, you're in an interactive medium" Something a number of studios need to learn. Then again NeverKnowsBest mentions that at 55:00 so keep watching

@jakejs7117

3 ай бұрын

​@@KinglinkJesus, man, how high on copium are you? If you have to come up with 10 of different explanations (yours is actually like 9th that I've seen) of what the lead writer said to make it not sound dumb or offending, maybe he's actually not that good of a writer. Either he can't covey his own thought clearly enough or he is just spitting nonsence. Basically it comes down to: he is either incompetent as a lead writer, or a hypocrite

@Kinglink

3 ай бұрын

@@jakejs7117 you didn't watch a single second of this video. Did you?

"Payers, not players" that is the worst speech in gaming of all time.

@Eassstt

4 ай бұрын

Turning players into payers

@mattmilliken1510

4 ай бұрын

it's "turning players into payers" and it wasn't "worst speech" it was "most infamous", and I'd have to agree with the other commenter who said it was the diablo immortal "do you guys not have phones" speech. The vast majority of people who play games have never heard that players/payers line or speech, but "do you guys not have phones" has been meme'd to death, as it should be. Though these are both individual lines from longer presentations that stand out as the only memorable or memeable thing. I guess NKB is kinda right if you're talking about speeches dissected and analyzed in full.

@kostaspassias3815

27 күн бұрын

Was that the "Pay per reload" one?

A simple bit of context for why the Copenhagen speech landed so badly: Fallout 4 was at that time in the midst of an online backlash from fans, many of whom had wanted another New Vegas. Instead, they got a game that seemed much shallower in terms of its story, focusing on things like radiant quests and settlement building. Pagliarulo's speech appeared, fairly or not, to many to confirm that the developers ignored using New Vegas as a template for the next game in the series and instead just aggressively simplified the game. The occasionally flippant tone of the speech didn't help. This wasn't just the No Mutants Allowed crowd, by the way. The reddit post was endorsed mostly by players who began the series with Fallout 3, then moved on to New Vegas when it was released and wanted more of that. Pagliarulo gave those frustrated fans a public face to make a target for their ire.

@billdestroyerofworlds

4 ай бұрын

Pagliarulo's problem, then, is ultimately that they let some of the original Fallout developers work on their baby again, who had literally been sitting on ideas for a decade and could step into the development framework that made Fallout Fallout like a glove. These are also developers who have some of the strongest writing abilities in the industry. It's not a good combination to be compared against.

@FredCDobbs-rd5wi

4 ай бұрын

@@billdestroyerofworlds True. To be clear, I do think the writing of Fallout 4 in particular has some serious flaws and much of the criticism of the main story and some of the sidequests is entirely deserved. Why, for example, does the Institute kidnap people in the first place? It's literally never explained and that entire premise gets dropped once the player gains access to the Institute. Emil *was* the lead writer, so the responsibility falls on his shoulders more than anyone else's. And, yeah, letting other writers have a crack at the series and their product being unambiguously the best edition of the game is going create unflattering comparisons to what you accomplished.

@Rart95871

4 ай бұрын

@@billdestroyerofworlds I dont think that is the case. I was around back then and Fallout 4 was such a big shitshow that the then divided community of New Vegas and Fallout 3 fans united in opposition to it. The reasons for it were mostly overblown but F4 really does have some serious gameplay, worldbuilding and plot flaws or considerable design differences even when compared to Fallout 3.

@dachshund_gaming

4 ай бұрын

@@FredCDobbs-rd5wi wow. it’s very clear in the game why the Institute kidnap people: to replace them in order to monitor the wasteland, and sometimes turn them into super mutants (and likely perform other experiments on them.) Y’all are just lying again. Is it possible for you people to support your arguments without blatant lies and misinterpretations?

@GodIwishIknew

4 ай бұрын

@@FredCDobbs-rd5wi now i love shitting on fo4’s story as much as the next guy, but the fact that the institute kidnapps people has a reason, it’s because otherwise you’d get two of the same person around and everyone would immediately know that one is a synth

I'd argue that the most infamous speech in the history of game development was the "You think you do but you don't" from J. Allen Brack when asked about old servers for World of Warcraft.

@ayylmao752

26 күн бұрын

He's right, though. Gamers are mostly stupid, rant incessantly, and don't actually know what they want. Now in that specific case it was used as an excuse to not include something that would have enriched their franchise. But the core of what he's saying is correct. I can't count the amount of times i've ranted about something in a game, wished it was another way, then when i encounter it in another game, wished to have the original way back. The truth is, you don't actually have a good conception of what goes into designing something as a player. and often the way that it is designed, there is a good reason. Not saying it's not possible for you to understand design as a gamer. But you'd have to be in the high 99th percentile of players with actual design foresight. Which, statistically, you're not.

@TheRobertMoxley

6 күн бұрын

Yeah, but J was proven wrong when Classic WoW needed 10x the initial number of servers to meet demand.

I don't care about this whole scandal, and never even knew it existed, but I SAW with my own eyes how horrible fallout 3 writing is.

@youarealwayscorrect

2 ай бұрын

I liked fallout 3's writing 😕

@youarealwayscorrect

2 ай бұрын

​@@Vert_GreenHeart I agree with some of these points, but frankly every beloved game in the fallout series has some weird story moments like these which could've been handled way better from the narrative or logical perspective. I can't say that fallout 3 is any better or worse in this regard. But I still love this series and overall the strong points always outweigh the flaws for me, even in the story.

@Ma1q444

2 ай бұрын

The real question is does that bad writing diminish the game to a way that diminishes everything else it does good? I for one had no significant problem with its writing, compared to other games because I simply liked the game and the loop.

@zackzick1996

2 ай бұрын

yeah bethesdas writing has never been good, its weird how people obsess over it.

@danielevans7439

2 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@zackzick1996 “Bethesda’s writing has never been good. It’s weird how people obsess over it.” Let’s take a look at that. First of all, Fallout 1 and 2 were not Bethesda, but they are considered very strong writing.” The controversy over the Fallout series isn’t that Bethesda got worse at writing, but rather that they did not do justice to the series they adopted. But it could be argued that Bethesda’s writing has always mattered. Elder Scrolls 1: The Arena took a lot of criticism for its simple, barely functional storyline. The writer took this as a challenge and made ES2: Daggerfall as intricate as he could, making the game more than good vs. evil and giving each faction believable motivations. Daggerfall was praised for this improvement. No matter how you feel about the writing, I think good stories will always be expected from a company whose success came from a perfect mix of D&D and single-player dungeon crawling.

I mean to be fair, his work sort of speaks for itself. His writing has great commitment to themes and is also full of plot holes, nonsensical characters, cheap twists, and is pretty shallow. It kind of works for side quests but putting him in charge of the larger stories was a baffling choice.

@ClonesDream

4 ай бұрын

It says a lot that when Emil was writing the religions for StarField, it gave him multiple crisis of faith moments like he came to some epic epiphany and that his pen was on fire when writing those stories, when in reality it comes across as nothing more than surface-level, low effort writing. He is quite distanced to reality.

@PaulieMcCoy

4 ай бұрын

Like the FO3 and FO4 main quests? Or even the side quests... FO4 side quest "I'm addicted to drugs I need your help MC... there is a magical scientific doodad in a vault I heard about" His writing is terrible but it's not his fault Starfield as a whole is a terrible game. Creetosis has lots of material & critique on the sad state of the quests in FO3 & 4.

@jamesserrano3550

4 ай бұрын

I think Emil is a very mid writer by video game standards (which is below mid by other mediums standards). I know Far Harbor was the most well written piece of content and Emil not being main writer probably had something to do with that. But he doesn't deserve the hate he's getting.

@jimmym3352

4 ай бұрын

@@jamesserrano3550 He certainly doesn't deserve the hate. Bethesda games never had good writing, including Morrorwind. It's not a core value for the company. A company has to want to invest in that (as Larian did when their older games had shoddy stories). It's obviously not important to Bethesda.

@travelkingable

4 ай бұрын

​@@jimmym3352 I mean, there is a noticeable decline in quality in Bethesda Writing over the years lets face it, especially in the Themes presented, or the world building. And that's not counting stuff like the obsession to maintain the linear storyline via immortal NPCs, least the player decided to shoot the racist jarl in the face like he just did with 100 nameless bandits who for some reason also happen to be a native population who live in mud huts and worships "evil gods" trying to reclaim their stolen homeland and shit. Like, say what you want about Morrowind, but the Ashlanders aren't generic bandits there, unlike the Reachfolk.

It’s crazy how a 17 year old redditor on adderall could have such an influence on a gaming community

@GodIwishIknew

4 ай бұрын

I mean, a severly autistic kid managed to loose rockstar 5 million dollars and spoil the reveal of the most anticipated game of the decade. Never underestimate the neurodivergent.

@zachhiggins1668

4 ай бұрын

If you think about it, ironically it's like the inverse of Emil. That community wanted to hear that, the post didn't change their minds. He was just the goofball who happened to post the right rant at the right time.

@SirAdrian87

4 ай бұрын

The truth is that there was a marked decline in writing and an overall dumbing down starting with Oblivion and not only has the decline not stopped but it's accelerating. People just latched onto the reason that made the most sense in order to justify "Bethesda decay".

@dachshund_gaming

4 ай бұрын

@@SirAdrian87 nah, that sentiment is based on the same kind of lies and mischaracterization of the devs that’s talked about in this video. That Reddit post was a microcosm of how little effort most people put into forming opinions these days. It’s all theatre, using pseudo-intellectual prose and long winded, cyclical arguments in a desperate attempt to seem smart or like some kind of authority on something.

@SirAdrian87

4 ай бұрын

@@dachshund_gaming The fact that Bethesda games have declined from release to release post-Morrowind is not under dispute, it's an objective fact that can be seen by simply playing the games. Despite what you think, people are not mindless automata that can't wait for input on what to think about something, they can have their own personal opinions. The community noticed the decline in quality starting with Oblivion and sought a reason as to why. That reddit post did not influence as many people as you falsely claim, it simply stated an opinion already shared by most of the community.

After what Emil tried to say Nate is one of the dudes in power armour in the Fallout 1 intro, I can no longer be so charitable towards Emil. It was such an insultingly bad move. The way he backtracked was even worse. I'd be fine with it if he just said "Okay, fine, I was a little silly. Oopsie :3", but he instead just went "Umm actually that's my own personal head canon it's not actually canon even though I very strongly implied it is canon :P". I like Bethesda games!! I even consider Fallout 2 my favourite RPG despite enjoying Fallout 3 and 4. But, man, I couldn't play Starfield. I really tried. The dialogue was too much. It was painful to listen to. I was with my girlfriend when I first played it, and we couldn't handle it. It was just really badly written. The characters felt so soft and generic. We mistakenly thought it was just "American writing". We had no idea Emil was involved with the project until we looked it up after closing the game. I think Emil is involved in the new elder scrolls right? If that's the case, I'm no longer excited for it

@modest_spice6083

15 күн бұрын

Yep. I finished the game and went on new game plus hoping to still experience something magical. When it didn't, I installed some mods to hopefully bring that to me. It didn't. And the thing is, even if Bethesda managed to fix the game, add more travel options, more QOL, it wouldn't change the bland writing, the awful quests, the bad factions, because they're unfixable. Starfield will remain bland. And now I fear what will happen to TES6 not to mention the next Fallout. I mean, with the show, there would be no New Vegas 2, right? No NCR, no Legion, no Vegas. Even if Obsidian gets to have another chance, what West Coast lore are they going to use with all the major factions in the Mojave dead? The BOS and the Enclave again? No. I fear we'll be stuck with the bland writing, lore, factions, characters and quests.

But... a concept IS a thing

@0x20pirate

3 ай бұрын

Maybe they meant a tangible thing. Trust the child redditor who claims to know writing for games :))

@Gatitasecsii

2 ай бұрын

It isn't though. For example, numbers are conceptual entirely, a number cannot be a physical thing, but it's a concept of quantification of things.

@basicallytorture

2 ай бұрын

@@Gatitasecsii and that concept is..... a thing lmfao

@zombieslasher5474

19 күн бұрын

@@Gatitasecsiia thing is a catch all term for anything. Hence the term anything where they drop the any and use thing.

@And-ur6ol

4 күн бұрын

@@Gatitasecsii numbers are "things". What they are not, are "items".

There is drama a-brewing in the multi-hour video game commentary and analysis world!

@ImortalZeus13

4 ай бұрын

Oh god. Please no.

@luka431

4 ай бұрын

LET THE GAMES BEGIN

@jackweaver1846

4 ай бұрын

Honestly, it’s kinda ridiculous to even call it drama. Pat thoroughly discredited all of NKB’s arguments in like twenty minutes. There’s no argument, man. NKB is just a shitty grifter

@Saward420

4 ай бұрын

@@jackweaver1846how do you discredit the notion that dogpiling is asinine?

@jackweaver1846

4 ай бұрын

@@Saward420 what? Pat addressed the criticisms targeted at himself specifically. One person can’t “dogpile,” that’s just called criticism.

The video essayists have begun to go after each other. You know it's about to get good.

@shira_yone

4 ай бұрын

I don't 100% agree with any of them (even this one), but I'm in for the show. Got my coffee and snack ready.

@aperson1670

4 ай бұрын

@@shira_yonewhat about this video do you disagree with? Just curious

@vodac1206

4 ай бұрын

I call this the James Somerton effect.

@shira_yone

4 ай бұрын

@@aperson1670 his plagiarism accusation and his interpretation of Emil's point/take. I just think he's way too charitable on them, trying to find good valid meaning in something that doesn't really have a good point if taken as a whole (and not just the few part of it that sounds vaguely good).

@dodado7424

4 ай бұрын

@@aperson1670 Personally i still think Emil is unfit for the job and hate how the sub-mediocre writing in bethesda games ruins their otherwise incredible potential. like considering how we've seen game studios with way less experience and resources make absolutely breathtaking pieces of art over the last few years, it feels egregious that a studio with a huge budget and an otherwise fantastic design formula that they've been refining for two decades now is wasting its opportunities with these mediocre fluff stories that are obviously meant to pad the gameplay, especially when the gameplay is already good and doesn't need padding and people have shown they *love* a good story in their games. And even if he personally didn't write it all, he is still the lead writer and so at least oversaw it all and is the one person most responsible for the quality of the stories in these games. And again it's not like we haven't seen other studios of this size or even smaller achieve much much more in this regard, so clearly his process is in one way or another flawed. Doesn't mean the harassment and vitriol is warranted though.

So we have a 2 hour video lying about other people's criticisms. Cool.

@GHOSTRIDER373737

13 күн бұрын

Criticism is not what I would describe the shit came out of these people's mouths.

@mossy3565

7 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 Patrician's Starfield video is eight hours long, do you seriously think it's him saying "Emil should be beheaded" over and over?

@JelliThePilot

3 күн бұрын

​@mossy3565 no but its very funny that its basically 8 hours of "no design doc" which is wrong. ya'll missed the fucking point of the video. you ppl are fucking retarded lol. the entire video flew over your head. you can walk away from this still thinking emil cant write for shit but if you're still mad at the end its entirely your fault. you fucking dipshits

@a_rat_named_mouse

4 сағат бұрын

​@@JelliThePilot The point of this video ultimately doesn't matter if the guy had to lie in order to make that point. Even knowing his point, I can't trust his word on anything now -even if I already agreed with him. It'd have been much better for Never to just not lie to begin with, but... too late for that.

I find it really interesting how Gaming is the one industry where saying "This person is bad at their job so maybe they shouldn't have it" is seen as a toxic attack. Like, yes, one person isn't solely responsible for everything but that's true in every industry. Directors get fired all the time even though thousands of people work on movies. Emil is the Lead Writer and the writing in the past few games has been bad. So who should take responsibility? No one?

@GHOSTRIDER373737

Ай бұрын

Because it is toxic. What gives you the right to demand someone to be fired when you do not own the say business or being a shareholder? Is there an objective way you can say this person fails at his job when most of his games are not only critically acclaimed but also huge financial success? The most common strawman these "gamers" use are saying they are consumers and have a right to demand better service. But the reality is their dissatisfaction are base on personal opinions where many would disagree with them, yet they think their opinion are more important and act like Karen, who demands to see the manager.

@Henchman.24

28 күн бұрын

​@@GHOSTRIDER373737 It's totally reasonable to want Emil P to be fired from his position, because his position is incredibly privileged with the potential to create great things, and he totally squanders it because he is a hack who's out of his league, and if he wasn't close friends with Todd Howard he would never have been able to retain his position after 2 games absolutely destroyed by the gaming press for their horrible, amateurish writing. This video and trolls like you need to stop trying to blame fans for the nepotistic hackery that results in the poor reactions from people who want something better from the supposed best of the industry (haha)

@GHOSTRIDER373737

27 күн бұрын

@@Henchman.24 No, because that is not up to you to decide. Nepotism argument doesn't work since he got more than 20 years of experience to back him up, he's been with Bethesda since TES3 Blood Moon, which came out in 2003, and before that, he also worked on Thief 2. You sound incredibly immature and bitter, almost like you are one of these aspiring writers who are jealous of his position.

@user-kl1zd2lg3d

27 күн бұрын

I don’t think the video is interested in talking about whether or not Emil is good at his job or not (not a fan of his games) but more so about the psychotic players who attack him online

@necromansy420

18 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737you may hop off his meat now sir

IMO one of the biggest reasons why so many people blindly agreed with the Reddit post was because they wanted to agree with it. If something confirms what you already thought (i.e. Bethesda games have bad writing), you're much more likely to nod along and not fact check anything. That's a bias we all subconsciously have and it takes a certain level of awareness and self discipline to oppose it within ourselves. I like to think that I'm at least trying not to do this, but I often catch myself doing it anyway if there's a topic I'm really passionate about.

@tydendurler9574

4 ай бұрын

Tl:dr, but what you say at the beginning is exactly how religion works. People want to believe. Period. And "if" somehow they can't or wont believe in "something" like a god or a deity, they put their beliefs into some other BS...like reddit posts or whatever... We truly live in occult times. This, plus social media.

@merlylvsm

4 ай бұрын

It's worth noting that they never inherently had a set team of writers either, but designers throwing in their lot. Sure, you had Rolston; Kirkbride and Kulmann working off Peterson's stuff but they were designers first, writers second and mostly wrote the lore. Its why TES games have such a hodge-podge of hot and cold and allsorts of disjointed themes between one another's quests.

@S_raB

4 ай бұрын

Also, school does not teach critical thinking skills. I learned but that was in the 80's & 90's "advanced" classes and curriculum was determined by the individual teachers. I was blessed to have small town teachers who created their own lesson plans, for example: 10th grade our Lit/Eng teacher allowed us to read "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" under threat of serious disciplinary action against her if the principal or worse school board found out. They did btw, come on we're 16 years old, of course we told our friends, and she got suspended for 2 weeks, which after parents stepped in was rescinded (our parents each gave permission & signed off on allowing us to read it...she saved her own butt by anticipating possible ramifications & making each of us have a "permission form"...Brilliant lady.) How many teachers these days would do something like that?

@jamesmeow3039

4 ай бұрын

Humans always want explanations, especially with something their personally attached to. People didn't like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Starfield and wanted an explanation. Since they weren't developing the games themselves, they latched on to any scrap of information to explain it.

@SirAdrian87

4 ай бұрын

Recent Bethesda games really DO have bad writing. People were looking for a cause to explain that otherwise objective fact.

Oh god… we’re going to get a 27 hour long Creetosis video out of this aren’t we?

@ducky36F

4 ай бұрын

Maybe he'll break the world record for using the word 'cuck' in it.

@AL-lh2ht

4 ай бұрын

You got to get the bag right.

@Spitefulrish

4 ай бұрын

Yep. I’m going to need a lot of popcorn. Cretosis has got to be the most toxic fallout KZreadr

@clockwork8968

4 ай бұрын

A 2 hour reaction vid followed by two 15 hour responses ... yeah thats how you run a succesfull KZread Channel these days X.X

@xenodroid

4 ай бұрын

​@@Spitefulrish He seems like a guy with WAY too much free time, lmao.

Great effort

It's a decent vid, but can't help noticing - A point was made that mixing legitimate criticisms with 'hate'/jabs at the person isn't the way to do it... But quite a bit of this vid uses that same tactic to those KZreadrs/redditors. No doubt leading to similar outcomes of people who agree hounding them on future vids as people did to Emil on twitter. You sort of become part of the problem you discuss.

@heavenly2k

4 ай бұрын

There was no vitriol in this video, just criticism. It got kinda sassy, that's about it. 🤷🏻‍♂️ and he painted a picture of a general sentiment being incorrect, not necessarily using a specific group of people as a scapegoat. I think this video is much more fair than the ones he is critiquing

@Icantdothatrightnow

4 ай бұрын

agreed. this whole video has a snide air about it.

@nethstar

4 ай бұрын

​@@heavenly2k And I'm sure some of the defenders of the other content creators he points out would say "It's just a bit of sass, it's not directing people to stalk Emil on his socials, it's still just criticism" and so the cycle continues. All I'm saying is that NKB might not realise, they may be unintentionally contributing to it (Besides, wasn't the sentiment that a few people will say ABC, people will take that as gospel then parrot ABC and use that as a means to attack said person?). When I watched the first half of this I checked the comments, and I could have easily switched out "Creetosis" or "PatricianTV", even "Asmongold" with "Emil" and it would have been the kind of comments used as evidence of hate towards Emil. It's just contributing similar distain, just in the other direction.

@NJ93

4 ай бұрын

There were zero unwarranted attacks on character in this video. There were jabs, but they were preceded with things these YTers actually said and not stuff invented out of thin air like they did with Emil.

@Ark1437

4 ай бұрын

@@nethstar Yep, I agree with you on this. It's unfortunate that NKB's very message about not attacking/mischaracterizing an individual whether or not you have legit criticisms is contradicted by his own ego. Whether he realizes it or not, taking Creetosis, PatricianTV, Zaric Zhakran, and Asmongold out of context to make his point creates a level of hypocrisy that puts this entire video into question. While the message itself is sound, the fact he didn't even censor the name of the Reddit poster (who he thought was likely a child) then made a very low effort comment that he'd ban people for harassing this individual shows he was either very lazy or was fine with people attacking them since he has no way of knowing who among his commentors were to do it. The people who have decided to go to these youtubers comment sections to attack/mischaracterize them have also missed the entire point of the video themselves, showing their own hypocrisy when they start calling them liers, losers, etc. It's why I wish that if NKB hadn't meant for the harrasment to happen, he would instead have taken their full arguments without naming any single person, replied to each one they had against Emil, and showed that whether or not he agreed with them that none of these criticisms justify harrasment of any single individual. Unfortunately, NKB seems to have gone down a rabbit hole of youtube drama in an attempt to defend Emil and jab at a few people he personally disliked. He may not have used vitriol himself but knowingly or not, used his audience as a loaded weapon and fired them at each person he named in this video. People will try to justify their actions by claiming it's karma for the vitriol / lies they used against Emil but that's just an excuse for mob mentality and childish behavior.

I don't know Emil. I don't know who is responsible for what at Bethesda in so far as Storytelling is concerned. But I can tell you, whoever is writing at Bethesda, they're atrocious at offering player choice or deviation within a narrative. Starfield, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and 4, all of them provide very shallow levels of decision making for the player, pushing and resulting in very linear and repetitive stories in their games. The inability to kill NPCs because it might make a quest impossible to complete, the illusion of dialogue choices that all lead to the same responses, the refusal to acknowledge that the player might see the twists, the inane contradictions to make things happen. A perfect example is Fallout 4's opening. You can tell the Vault guy to go away, but you really can't, because you have to talk to him. The computers don't log when the cryopods were sealed or opened or when they malfunctioned, or why. You can't ask how long ago Shaun and his kidnappered left the vault. For all the chat selections, none of them change anything at all, despite the transparency of the story, you aren't allowed to see through it until the story is ready. So whoever they're employing to write, they need to improve, get augmented, or be completely rebuilt. And, while he may have spoken hyperbolically, he's still correct. Whether or not they use some alternative to classic design documents, whatever system they're using is woefully inadequate with the outcomes we're getting.

@monkeysfromvenus

4 ай бұрын

I think what makes the bad plots in these games sting so much is the massive amount of effort expended to make the product. Compared to the amount of man-hours needed to make the rest of a game, the work needed to write its story is relatively miniscule. This makes Bethesda games and other games with bad writing feel as if they tripped just before the finish line. All those millions of dollars get poured into an RPG just to have it ruined by some heavy-handed plot and dialogue made by a couple of people with (presumably) little oversight.

@nickelakon5369

4 ай бұрын

He is the lead writer of their games, if anyone is responsible for the story telling, whether he penned it or not, he is, that's how *leading* works.

"KZreadrs fact checking each other" has quickly become my new favorite genre on the site

@AspiringDevil

4 ай бұрын

Then you should love him getting fact checked kzread.info/dash/bejne/h5uGo6SzaLC-fqQ.htmlsi=6QHCcIm2nXy_xrOV

@pwn3ronetwothree

4 ай бұрын

Then you'll love Pat's reply to this video where he fact checks this video HARD on being nothing more than a desperate attempt to start drama

@morpheus_uat

4 ай бұрын

@@pwn3ronetwothree oh im gonna watch that right now, lewst see if he keeps his cool or start rambling and insulting

@BobbyKotick69420

4 ай бұрын

​@pwn3ronetwothree why would I trust the dude who screams "YOURE A CUCK, YOURE A CUCK" over a video made by someone he's never spoken to Or who thinks design docs are the end all be all of all games

@pwn3ronetwothree

4 ай бұрын

@@BobbyKotick69420 I love that you use that example, because he addresses why he said that in the video, and it's even better because if you do watch it, you'll see that Never cut out the context of Never making a joke right before that about Skyrim "Leaving him for a younger, richer man", thus describing himself as a cuck, which is why Pat shouted that in the stream. Which is beautifully poetic because you're doing the very same thing that Never accuses every one of doing in this video, which is jumping to conclusions without doing research.

The argument that we should give a charitable interpretation to what Emil says about writing is a lot less conving after his whole Rawling-esque "Nate is a war criminal" twitter canon that everyone literally thought was a joke at first before he clarified he was serious.

@jacksonjabba

Ай бұрын

Pretty sure he confirmed that it wasn’t cannon actually, don’t know what you’re on about

@sock2828

Ай бұрын

@@jacksonjabba He went back on it being canon after it got an overwhelmingly negative and bewildered response. But it being harshly received and him capitulating to the public about it being canon doesn't change that he didn't intend it to be parody and he really thought making Nate a random war criminal in the Fallout 1 intro was an idea worth taking seriously and making canon.

@jacksonjabba

Ай бұрын

@@sock2828 I mean I interpreted his tweet as a joke, it’s pretty obviously ridiculous as a concept to have a fallout main character be complicit in a war crime lol

@enduser8410

24 күн бұрын

@@sock2828 I legitimately think Emil was trolling with that. He must've been fed up with the criticism and just did that to make some point about overly lore serious fans, only for it to backfire on him.

I think its definetly not due to solely this person. But ever since Emil started with Oblivion and Fallout 3, all the writing is just crap.

@MrMud99

3 ай бұрын

The quality dropped off because the people responsible for it in the first place left. It's not Emils fault he's not the guys who came before. Not saying he's good but the hate is undeserved.

@Gannoh

3 ай бұрын

​@@MrMud99He doesn't deserve to be hated, he seems like a nice guy but he very clearly is not cut out for the role he has, and should be replaced.

@angel_of_rust

3 ай бұрын

being a nice guy is no excuse for ruining the industry you're working in.@@Gannoh

@qeridexis8604

3 ай бұрын

​@@ogbobbyjohnson7311 I feel like this is the dumbest fucking comparison I have ever seen "If my doctor misdiagnosed me and caused me to suffer physical harm then I should hate him, by that logic the guy who made videogames that made me displeased is inherently in the same category." Like, i KNOW the comparison is the most basic and therefore simple and understandable form of comunicating ones situation but for the love of god find a better comprison dude.

@four-en-tee

3 ай бұрын

I can't speak much on Bethesda's Fallout, but as for the Elder Scrolls, its worth noting that Julian Le Fay pretty much spear headed the early Elder Scrolls. He basically lost his position in Bethesda while attempting to save it during the development of Morrowind, but his ideas still make up the bulk of that game. He basically IS the father of the Elder Scrolls, and the reason why those games fall flat in their writing today has to do with his absence.

TLDR: Always be critical of the content you consume (even this video) and be careful of confirmation bias. Media literacy is important peeps.

@mercster

4 ай бұрын

That's only part of it. The other half is IT'S A GODDAMN $60 VIDEO GAME. This isn't life or death... unless, of course, you are a perennial man-baby who has nothing else going for you but video games to soothe your tortured inner child, and thus take all this way too seriously with infantile lashings-out at those developers who have disappointed you.

@television9233

4 ай бұрын

@@mercster "IT'S A GODDAMN $60 VIDEO GAME" this discussion has been happening way before this $60 game came out, it also includes the treatment of franchises that some consider part of their childhoods, the money isn't the issue here and I would hope most people aren't so idiotic as to boil down the entire discussion into the price of the game..

@ThunderClapClide

4 ай бұрын

⁠@@television9233Yeah, exactly. It’s in very bad taste to assume any criticisms from fans is just coming from “man babies.” A tactic you’ll often see people use to make them sound stupid or emotional. Maybe you can make your arguments sound good without having to tear down someone else. Just an idea @mercster

@garth4712

4 ай бұрын

​@ThunderClapClide if someone's throwing a temper tantrum over the fact that the new games coming out ten years later in the franchise they played as teenagers aren't as good as the ones they remember, they don't need to be torn down. They were never up to begin with. Not saying there's no value in criticism, even in a franchise like this. But the situation with the Bethesda games has always been pretty simple. People get into these games when they're young, and the freedom of being let loose in a fantasy or post-apocalyptic sandbox is appealing to them. The elder scrolls games, at least since morrowind, have been aimed at teenagers. You can find older fans complaining about each one on release since then, but it wasn't as visible until Skyrim because of how wildly popular it was. But then you grow up, and you start the realize the stories were never well written, the RPG mechanics weren't interesting, the combat wasn't engaging. You want different things out of games now, if you even like them anymore. And meanwhile Bethesda is releasing a new game to a new generation of mostly teenagers, and you might even pick it up, but you won't be able to sink hundreds of hours into it like you could when you were a kid. The games didn't change. You did. At this point you have two choices. You can move on to other interests that comport better with what you really want, in gaming or otherwise. You know, be an adult. Or you can waste your life away whinging about how a game series that markets itself to a demographic you no longer belong to doesn't appeal to you any more. And the reality is, you wouldn't like the games you claim were the good ones if they came out today anyways. Anyone choosing the latter path is indeed a "man baby." They will never change anything, they wouldn't like it even if they did, and all they accomplish is making the internet an angrier and more hostile place.

@nicholaselder2546

4 ай бұрын

Lol rich boy.

I think the worst game dev speech I ever saw was the one about “Whales” and the need for them within gaming and how to court them and manipulate your games so you can suck them dry monetarily. And I’m someone who actually is on the devs side like 99% of the time since I know how hard it is to make a game. But Jesus Christ. That speech was just actually legitimately awful and scummy.

@KyriosHeptagrammaton

4 ай бұрын

I was amazed and horrified by the Whales speech. It was like "I know you guys think this way, but you can't just say the quiet part out loud." Craziest part is that it didn't cause a second video game crash.

@stanislavkimov2779

4 ай бұрын

@@KyriosHeptagrammaton it's better though for them to be honest and say it out loud. I can respect that. Not to hide who you are and your intentions. Much worse if they are dishonest about it and do it silently. Even lying about not doing it. So I think your negative reaction for them being open about it is bad. Yes, we have to negatively react to their practices. But not to them being open about that.

@eldengarrett9153

4 ай бұрын

I didn't get that impression of the whales speech at all. The speaker seemed somewhat cynical of the practice, and was more or less exposing it at a GDC. Honestly it was just damn interesting, but I don't play games with cash shops in them as a rule.

@ourdestiny_

4 ай бұрын

@@eldengarrett9153 cause u think games without a cash shop dont somewhat follow these rules? also which games doesnt a have cash shop ?

@KyriosHeptagrammaton

4 ай бұрын

@@stanislavkimov2779 No, I agree with you. It's nice of them to admit it. I meant from a more Machiavellian perspective they're doing it all wrong :P. But I'm happy to have evidence to point to.

With Emil's recent Twitter activity regarding Fallout TV show (Lore and Retconning), and Fallout 4 with nates lore saying he is the guy in Fallout 1 with the guy committing war crimes (Emil seems to forget Nate was in Alaska not Canada, that's where that fallout 1 footage is from), Then proceeds to go against it afterwards... Emil seriously is Bethesda's issue. And he said he says "Helldivers 2 does so many things right", I (ThelocalBogan) said "Then take some notes mate and show Howard"...... He blocked me after that.

@ni9274

Ай бұрын

So a random tweet of a guy talking about his own head cannon prove that he's a problem for Bethesda ? There isn't any retconning in the show, you people really need to stop making shit up. Why wouldn't he block someone who attack him on a tweet that has nothing to do with writing or Bethesda ?

@thelocalbogan5605

Ай бұрын

@@ni9274 "attack him on a tweet"... My brother on the inter-web... I typed.

@jacksonjabba

Ай бұрын

Emil forgot Nate was in Alaska and you forgot that his tweet was an obvious shitpost. And yeah he blocked you for being rude lol

@21awesome

Ай бұрын

Did you genuinely take that tweet as anything but a shitpost

I half expected James Sommerton to come up at some point

Someone who frames suspicion as childish must have no knowledge of the Cold War

@jamesmeow3039

4 ай бұрын

*See any detective fiction

@puppykitty6100

4 ай бұрын

Suspician and fear are the bedrock of media and politics.

@lethargy764

4 ай бұрын

that was actually kinda childish though lmfao

@nickf2657

4 ай бұрын

​@@lethargy764 I guarantee you've never read a book about Black Book Communism. Ever. You dolt.

@NebLleb

4 ай бұрын

"DUUUUUUUURRRR If you think suspicion is childish, you don't know about this random historical event! duuuurrrr" The fuck are you talking about? This is a video about videogames. We're not here for your political commentary.

my biggest takeaway from this video is that bethesda focused youtubers are really embarrassing.

@IMBREISGAU

4 ай бұрын

You are correct.

@IMBREISGAU

4 ай бұрын

@@skrotosd TKS mantis do a lot of same thing as Creetosis and PatricianTV to Fallout 76.

@hylianxbox6586

4 ай бұрын

@@skrotosd tk mantis is awful and basically trashes everything bethesda does and praises the old fallouts nonstop. It's why I stopped watching him

@BrownCookieBoy

4 ай бұрын

Those who play the game all the time or those who criticise the game?

@SpecShadow

4 ай бұрын

@@hylianxbox6586 he praised Starfield tho, also for writing?

Came primarily for the content pertaining to PTV after seeing his short response and being confused. Overall, I think the criticism of PTV focusing on no GDD is not misguided. I am assuming that NKB did not watch the entire video (based on his own admission) because PTV talks about various aspects of Starfield, including but not limited to game design and quest design, being disjointed. I think watching the video in its entirety makes it clear that the PTV's statement of no GDD is hyperbole and is simply representing the overarching idea that there are various issues with Starfield and that they can all be attributed to the seemingly lax use of a GDD to guide game development. The plagiarism part on PTV doesn't really seem like plagiarism to me, personally. NKB's evidence of it being Bethesda-related and around the same time as when PTV made an Outer Worlds video doesn't support that the Joker quote is ripped from NKB. Maybe it is inspired by another individual's use, but it could simply be from the subconscious and not intentional plagiarism and thus should not really gain any attention. The whole situation is where PTV jokes about NKB's ex-lover explanation, while not "polite", was commenting on how ridiculous the description was. PTV was not literally calling NKB a cuck, but how he thought it was stupid to describe yourself/your Skyrim experience in such a way. I think I am in the same boat as a lot of people commenting that while it was not a tasteful remark, PTV was clearly not using it in the way conveyed in this video. I think NKB got too attached to the word and missed PTV's intending criticism. Just my thoughts on this situation strictly from the NKB/PTV perspective. Interested to see what others think about this.

@ShishouDzukiZaManako

4 ай бұрын

NKB just seems like a salty fanboy. likely because he is.

@alexanderdavy8883

4 ай бұрын

@@ShishouDzukiZaManako Honestly, it seems like he is more salty due to being called a cuck, since he doesn’t really talk about Starfield itself nor defend the game with any counter evidence to any of PTV’s points. Sad to see because prior to this video I had a relatively positive view of NKB.

@ShishouDzukiZaManako

4 ай бұрын

@@alexanderdavy8883 i've never heard of him so this abortion is my only view of him. talk about 1st impressions... having seen the context he deserved to be called one. it perfectly fits; he's still white-knighting for a franchise that left him to be plowed by another audience. the fact that he held onto it for this long just means the name should stick XD

@theredcomet5670

3 ай бұрын

​@@alexanderdavy8883 that part of the Skyrim video REALLY does make him look like a cuck tho. Now more people are going to know about it, which was a huge mistake.

@BlackChrom3

Ай бұрын

@@alexanderdavy8883 Because this is not the point? Did you actually see the video? It is not about "defending" Starfield and as such he doesn't have to defend Starfield against PTV's video. it is about making up facts. Because it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, if a game is indeed shit or not - you do not have to invent facts to make a point how shitty something is. If my spaghetti tasted crap I will say that is was burnt, the noddles were dry, barely no meat in the sauce ... but I do not have to invent the argument that the chef was actually rubbing one of into my food and than when the other customers are trying to lynch him save myself from responsibility with "it was just a hyberbole! I never meant this factually - despite using exactly such phrasing - but in the sense that it feeeeels like he rubbed one of". This is even worse and no excuse for incompetence and such behaviour if you know that your listeners WILL see this as fact. It is funny how many interpret this video as some kind of apology video to Starfield (which it clearly is not) and bringing up arguments like "fire the cook if he messes up my food" but defend a youtube creator that knowingly or carelessly makes up facts that can move people to very bad behaviour to the thousands and excuse this as "it was just a hyberpole, bro!" despite it clearly not being that. In a world were words like "facts" "propaganda" "research" "opinion" lost all their meaning because of the incompetence of creators on platforms like youtube and the stupidity of most people consuming those platforms it is time that those incompetent, mallicious creators face the same consequence, just as developers that do a bad job. But instead they are being defended as "misinterpreted" and "only following the trends of negativity on youtube - it is not their fault!". I will repeat the argument often used by the crowd here that attack Emil (no matter if rightfully or not) in regards to the same situation with creators like PTV: If my plumber messes up my plumbing, it is time to fire him, not pay him and he should not be surprised about me being angry at him. And yes, I am of the opinion that Starfield is not a good game and Bethesda deserved harsh critizism - but this also includes actually making good and factual arguments instead of inventing facts. Invented facts only hurt any valid critizism aswell as ill-thought out buzz words and "hyperboles".

I mean as a developer Bethesda is stupidly lazy, I think we all can agree, re releasing Skyrim on so many platforms, and the ruckus of fallout 76 does not make it better, starfield is not that bad but the accumulation of all these lazyness make people hate them, and Emil is an unfortunate scapegoat, for those who refuse to acknowledge the corporate greed

@GHOSTRIDER373737

18 күн бұрын

Like hell no. I do not agree with the sentiment with laziness. That sounds like coming from an entitled child, if you know how small their team is and ever try to make some mods out of their games you can clearly see how much efforts were put in there.

@V.P.M

18 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 from a quick Google search I did around 500 people work on starfield which is pretty standard for a game that caliber, you treat Bethesda like some indie game dev, they have to hold up to higher standard, they make elder scrols literally the biggest rpg in the world, the fact that they choose to treat Skyrim as their milking cow make Bethesda the laziest dev I know

@ryman1933

14 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 meat rider

@GHOSTRIDER373737

14 күн бұрын

@@ryman1933 You?

@ryman1933

13 күн бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 just fixing your name for you

Love how he talks about how players run off for hours side stepping the story so in fallout 4 they wrote a story of immediate urgency where your spouse is murdered and your son is kidnapped with absolutely no wiggle room in the story to do any side objectives without being a distracted and disconnected protagonist. He identifies a clear problem with writing a "Novel" style narrative and yet the game has exactly that kind of story.

@silversnail1413

4 ай бұрын

Are the OG Fallouts any different? You're supposed to be finding a water chip to save your Vault or looking for a way to prevent your tribe's extinction but instead you run around like a dipstick doing mundane side quests. Even NV sort of suffers from this problem. Unless you're roleplaying a pacifist or coward I don't see why the Courier would postpone their quest to get revenge on Benny just to help the NCR or save a bunch of dirt farmers in Goodsprings.

@huttie2342

4 ай бұрын

I definitely agree with that criticism of Fallout 4. That's why I was surprised to see Starfield so criticized, because it does a great job of not giving you a story with immediate urgency like fallout 4 or Skyrim making it much more easy to get distracted and do side and faction quests without feeling disconnected.

@_Qwi_

4 ай бұрын

I wish more developers of open or semi-open games would understand this. If you want me to explore your world, make it make sense to do so. Don't make your main questline so full of urgency that it's basically impossible to justify my character going off and doing side content. That makes deviating from it pretty immersion breaking, especially if it's not accompanied by any actual timer (hidden or otherwise) because most of us have at least a basic understanding of how triggers work and so we know that we're free to explore to our heart's content until we go to a specific location or speak to a certain character, so when there's something that seems to require our immediate attention but time stands still while we spend 30 hours messing around with side content it's a big, screaming reminder that this a video game, not a virtual world.

@franzosisch5965

4 ай бұрын

​@@silversnail1413 In 1 and 2 you have no idea where to find the chip or GECK making it plausible for someone to stop and check every place they come across to find information and, because you start with nothing, get money which gets you equipment to survive while looking. NV is much the same. "Go find this guy". It's not really a rush and you could decide to live your life instead of going after the guy that shot you.

@aidancoutts2341

4 ай бұрын

@@silversnail1413 Correct me if I'm wrong as I never played them but in the OG fallout you are given a time limit to complete the main quest. The protagonist knows exactly how much wiggle room they have. Also you are meant to be hiking great distances between towns, it makes sense to want to settle and stock up, maybe doing a few favours before continuing the big journey. In New Vegas, I always thought of getting revenge on Benny as a bit of a pipe dream. If he's alive out there somewhere, he ain't going anywhere, he poses no danger to you or a loved one, why not get sidetracked? In Fallout 4 these crazy people have your son. I can't think of a stronger motivation than revenge PLUS rescuing a child from murderers. Running around building towns and being crowned the head of some militia group is simply too involved to be justified. That and getting Travis a hot date. It would be pretty easy to fix. Just have money become an immediate problem or obstacle in the main quest and have our protagonist willing to do anything to get it, because they would do anything to achieve their goal. You just have to have a companion or someone say "you need to buy a maguffen to do xyz, you need to make sure you are stocked up on weapons and meds to do xyz" That way, your side tracking is justified as not rushing the main story half cocked. If you want to get really cool with the writing, at the end of subplots, make it a trade off between getting the caps you need and doing the right thing by this other party in trouble. If you're nice, you constantly end up helping people altruistically instead of the purpose you originally went to them for which was money. You could still get some kind of reward but you can be the hero whilst also not betraying the character of someone on a desperate mission.

But human nature, human nature never changes. It got monetized though.

@Xs2865

4 ай бұрын

This.

@xaptor8685

4 ай бұрын

Imagine an actual civil war started in America in the mid 2020s was because of a Bethesda video game. And then it escalated to a nuclear war that ended the world as we know it, all thanks to an online Reddit Post with 8k+ upvotes from the internet 7 years ago.🙃

@bozazz

4 ай бұрын

And our heroic truth teller here is profiting as much as the people he’s calling out.

I think it is very interesting and telling that Emil's 3 rules are almost exactly the most vanilla advice to new GMs in TTRPGs.

@whocares9033

Ай бұрын

I'm creating my own right now and thought the same thing lol

@sock2828

Ай бұрын

I mean it explains why so much of the structure of his stories is very basic and bland

This is a bizarre watch.

@laurioho2041

Ай бұрын

how

it is insane how people go for the bad faith interpretation so damn easily. it reminds me of a slightly older twitter drama from last year of some indie dev writing in one tweet in a large thread that he didnt want to pay influencers to cover the game because it felt icky. I interpreted that as that personally not being willing to do what he feels as artificially giving it exposure and reviews, because it felt fake. It is a personal qualm. Then there was hundreds of quote tweets responding to that by youtubers and others in regards to how disrespectful that was, because they are entitled to their labor, when I dont think that was the point. Its especially funny considering how these people are privileged businessowners or self-employed when it comes down to it. They just jumped on the opportunity to propagandize for their own interests imo.

@slipknotpurity00

4 ай бұрын

Bad faith interpretations drive the clicks. It's a race to the bottom and the bottom feeders are eating good.

@dib327

4 ай бұрын

Emil attacking people saying you criticize starfield because you don’t know game development. Imagine being served raw food and a chef tells you that you can’t complain because you aren’t a chef. Dude is an asshole 100%.

@Jupa

4 ай бұрын

Indie devs are privileged business owners?

@ChocolatePope

4 ай бұрын

Since when paying for advertising is icky? You can always buy and ad if that's less disgusting.

@mario-k.

4 ай бұрын

You didn't get the memo. KZreadrs are the most oppressed employees. The bigger and more successful they are, the more oppressed 😢

Regarding the GDD part: I would like to add something to the mix since Game Design is literally my job :) Creating something like a wiki instead of a singular document is absolutely correct, a singular document is no longer sufficient ( at least outside of indie development ). However placing GDD creation on a development timeline isn't so simple. I mean there are many factors ( team size, scope of the project, game type, even the skillset of each team member etc ) that influence at which point of development GDD is actually created. I worked on projects that started with GDD but I also worked on projects that started with rapid prototyping and GDD was created later, once the game vision and it's mechanics cleared up a bit. The point is: GDD isn't something that occurs at a very specific point in development, however I struggle to see a development process that skips it entirely, aside from small indie projects. In terms of Bethesda: I have to be honest, I always disliked their games. What I learned from Emil about their approach to docs helped me understand why they always felt "messy' to me. Another note on GDD vs Playing the game: Those are not exclusionary, rather complementary. Designer MUST play the game they are working on but they also MUST document things so the whole team knows what game they are working on.

@faust3209

4 ай бұрын

Well put

@TheGallantDrake

4 ай бұрын

Bingo. Emil comes off as someone who's just failed upwards and thinks his way works better. He deserves criticism for this, specifically, because he's wrong and it's costing valuable time and effort.

@jubbalubby

4 ай бұрын

Thats a neat insight, thank you.

@brentjones1660

4 ай бұрын

A massive GDD is also largely incompatible with agile methodologies, which are widely adopted in industry, and provide flexibility that is absent from a waterfall method. Which is compatible with a GDD... and largely proven inefficient. Games and software evolve, they don't spring into existence

@maku4814

4 ай бұрын

@@brentjones1660 Exactly, the process is there for you to help you make a game, it's not something a team must obey even it makes no sense.

WTF was he babbling about? He spoke lots and lots of words, but said nothing.

ok, but still, why does writing in new bethesda games suck?

@JohnNash-lt1ny

3 ай бұрын

It’s been shit since fallout 3. Honestly oblivion was hit or miss as well.

@reallyman6502

3 ай бұрын

@@JohnNash-lt1ny well yeah But why? If emil is not an incompetent writer, than whose fault is this?

@JohnNash-lt1ny

3 ай бұрын

@@reallyman6502 Emil’s fault 90%. Todd’s fault 10% for keeping him on board since they’re friends

@JohnNash-lt1ny

3 ай бұрын

@@kylio95 I had cancer so it’s open game for me 😂

@JohnNash-lt1ny

3 ай бұрын

@@kylio95 op is actively deleting comments in this thread 😂 I’ve been asking the same as well. He’s really butthurt about the community not sucking him off 😂😂😂

I really appreciate NakeyJakey's 3 "outdated" videos. He always is very clear that he appreciates the devs and all their hard work, and praises the parts of gsmes that he loves. I really like how he took a moment to comment on how he finds Todd Howard's story inspiring in his Starfield video. It's as if hes trying to approach it from *actual* criticism as opposed to hopping on a hate bandwagon.

@carmina-solis

4 ай бұрын

yeah! games criticism is wonderful! attacking people because you think they’re bad at their jobs is NOT wonderful!

@LN.2233

4 ай бұрын

His videos are too vapid and long for their good.

@Allen-qs2xr

4 ай бұрын

That guy stretches 5 mins to be 2 hours so no

@ggwp638BC

4 ай бұрын

Funnily enough, that's the same kind of content Patrician and PrivateSession makes. The reason fo why the Starfield video feels more aggressive is because it's the final part of a Bethesda series he made, going all the way back to Morrowind through Oblivion, Skyrim, Fo76, Outer Worlds (Not a Bethesda title, but still related), that ends with Starfield. He is extremely respectful to Bethesda and constantly praises them throughout all of these videos, and the Starfield video is just his send off to the series because it reiterates all of the issues he already addressed in other videos.

@Seoul_Soldier

4 ай бұрын

@@LN.2233 You may not like his comedic style but his criticisms are always fair.

The idea that "we don't know what Emil did or didn't write" is technically true, but it completely misses the fact that he's the LEAD WRITER credited on Starfield. It's HIS job to vet through the work of his peers and decide what IS and ISN'T a good addition to the game As much as I dislike pseudo-intellectual gaming commentators, acting like Emil's vast influence in Bethesda ISN'T a factor in the decline of the company's writing is just wrong.

@macrograms

4 ай бұрын

thank you for this, StudioNewSheoth.

@CrazyxEnigma

4 ай бұрын

This is true. Too add, given Bethesda doesn't use dedicated writers and lets level designers and quest designers do the writing that explains in part why it's of generally poor quality. Writing wasn't their job and they're doing it anyway.

@jamesormondroyd1009

4 ай бұрын

a decline from where? Daggerfall? IHRA Drag Racing? Where is the high water mark for writing at Bethesda pre Emil

@YoutubeMadeMePickHandle

4 ай бұрын

This is a genuine question: did you (or anyone who liked your comment) watch the video? If so, when did Never defend Bethesda or Emil on the grounds of good writing?

@CrazyxEnigma

4 ай бұрын

@@KZreadMadeMePickHandle 1. Yes. 2. He didn't. This comment and mine are just regular criticisms of Emil that doesn't devolve into mudslinging or taking things out of context and misrepresenting unlike what Never does to the people he's attempting to decry. I can agree with the sentiment but can do without the moral grandstanding and hypocrisy.

Who wrote Starfield story? Emil Pagliarulo

@JohnNash-lt1ny

3 ай бұрын

Fo3, Skyrim, fo4, starfield. Enjoyable games (starfield not really) but the writing in all of these is abysmal, and lazy, cookie cutter generic hogwash

@pfnieks

15 күн бұрын

That's false actually, he is the lead quest designer, the lead writer was Will Shen. So the story was written by Will and his team of writers.

@dazedmaestro1223

15 күн бұрын

@@JohnNash-lt1ny, how is the writing abysmal in, for example, FO4? That's just such a stupid take.

@JohnNash-lt1ny

15 күн бұрын

@@dazedmaestro1223 are you 12 lol? Or what is your first fallout?

@dazedmaestro1223

15 күн бұрын

@@JohnNash-lt1ny, "ArE yOU TWelVe?" Played all Fallouts except 1 and 2 btw. Do you think the story of GTA 5 or Red Dead Redemption 2 is good?

This is probably one of the most disingenuous videos ever crafted. Well done.

@Sindrella.

3 күн бұрын

Would you say it’s almost as disingenuous as Todd Howard? LOL

This is why people fear public speaking more than death when polled.

@Varangian_af_Scaniae

4 ай бұрын

If you are an incompetent idiot like Emil then you shouldn't hold public speeches!

@ToastyCubes

4 ай бұрын

Very underrated comment

@Berry_Bruiser

4 ай бұрын

Wait what? Who is saying this or voting on a poll like this? I'm not suggesting they don't exist btw I'm just really curious who is saying this.

@SobeCrunkMonster

4 ай бұрын

@Berry_Bruiser its been around forever, try googling it since youre gonna have to anyway since asking people questions in comments is not a smart thing to do. its a pretty unsmart and not actually social thing to do. its a pretty parasocial thing to do. its a pretty lame thing to so. its a pretty stroke thing to do.

@papabungle

4 ай бұрын

@@Berry_Bruiser It's been a thing forever whenever people are polled. I was hearing that since I was a kid. They're actively more afraid of having to publicly speak than death.

The fact that all these people that have never been to a work conference tend to focus on specific aspects like him praising the city and him mentioning his coworkers and showing pictures of them, which are both extremely standard in a work setting. It is important to thank the organizers (and it is nice to do it by referencing the city) and it is even more important to promote the people that work under/with you. The ignorance in most of the criticism is irritating.

@ConsecDesign

4 ай бұрын

yeah, i don't think these dudes have the kinds of jobs that warrant any sort of conference, if they have jobs at all.

@KickinRadTopHat

4 ай бұрын

Softening the crowd up with a personal anecdote or joke related to the area you're in is such a common public speaking technique that I’m honestly shocked it would be interpreted as anything other than light patter you’d see pretty much anybody do while speaking on stage. The people acting like Emil is doing some kind of trick on the audience with basic crowd work are reaching so hard to be outraged.

@viljamtheninja

4 ай бұрын

It's not just standard to a work setting. It's standard to... anyone on a stage outside their home town. When you see a band live, or a comedian or whatever, they will often say "Hello, country, good to see you!" and say something about the country, about the audience that's there to see them. It just makes for a pleasant atmosphere, which is something most people enjoy, and it is generally nice in life to feel like you're enjoying something. Criticizing this pleasant audience interaction has a distinct smell of absolute social incompetence and maybe there could even be some kind of diagnosis involved because that's pretty advanced level social incompetence. And that's not something that should be shamed in and of itself, hell I kinda feel bad for these people for being so socially clueless, but it's disconcerting that they get so much validation for their wacky opinions.

@Hithel

4 ай бұрын

I'd go so far to say that if you go to a conference and not have so me kind of intro to engage and personalize yourself to the audience, then you haven't understood the lowest basics of public speaking. So Creetosis attacking this tells me he's never been put in a position where he had to be the authority on anything, and does not understand it.

Never interacted with the guy nor I do care, but when the quality of something is objectively poor and not matching what they sell to you, you have all the rights to criticize it. The idea that things need to be dumbed down and no matter what you do the consumers will not appreciate it is just wrong. It is indicating a lack of respect, true some will not appreciate and others will never care, but if you try to do your best people WILL notice it. Hand holding and dumb down is stupid for an adult audience (is okay if your target are small children but that's it). The criticism is fair, responding "you are not an expert hence you do not know how hard it is and cannot judge" is condescending and disrespectful. Look how different others took criticism: this sucks? Precious feedback, we will improve it and make it better. Do you see anyone attacking no man sky or cyberpunk? And both messed up badly going through the exact same pressure Bethesda does. They sucked it up and made up for it. Bethesda was so beloved that was even forgiven their trademark bugfest (probably unique case in the industry) and they are trying hard to make ever worse decisions. It is one guy fault? No. But it is a teller that if they do not change the people will move on. There is no indicator that they get it, rather they seem committed to disconnect even further and push forward into dumb "Kiss" land.

@marcofogli4317

17 күн бұрын

Just think of the canvas bags or nuka cola dark. Is symptomatic of how much they respect their base. That's why instead of replacing key position with people who care they are comfortable with the status quo. You don't need to fire someone, but if it does not good in a position (several times) you could relocate in place where his skills actually matter and give a chance to someone that might truly care.

A meme account on Twitter created a fake story saying the basketball player Jordan Poole spent !half a million dollars! on a single date with Ice Spice. In reality the two had never met each other. That single tweet managed to snowball into headlines across huge platforms. To this day Jordan can’t escape that tweet. The internet is a scary place. I feel bad for Emil. Gaming community can be weird

@bahshas

4 ай бұрын

thankfully it all worked out for them. after the debacle they met and decided to secretly date, and quickly fell madly in love with eachother. she is pregnant expecting their first baby.

@sunbleachedangel

4 ай бұрын

If by "weird" you mean "a bunch of deranged psychopaths" then yeah, you're right

@AB-sw4kb

4 ай бұрын

Jordan Poole is catching strays from Draymond and KZread gaming video essay comment sections

@SpecShadow

4 ай бұрын

That could be avoided if Emil was competent writer. And accepted criticism... without critic - you can't improve

@joshuatealeaves

4 ай бұрын

@@SpecShadow I agree with that. I said what I said about Emil because it’s a dog pile at the end of the day. He’s a target who can’t defend himself. Kids insult him for the most part. Are they giving criticism sure but I watch Starfield critiques. I know the shit Emil gets. I feel bad for him

for anyone that doesnt have youtube dislikes, this has 10k up and 7k down

@amostlynottoxicdude8002

4 ай бұрын

How do you have yt dislikes? Is it on yt premium or smthn?

@12SPASTIC12

4 ай бұрын

There's a browser extension to enable them. Weirdly KZread still tracks dislikes but doesn't display them. But they can be easily re-enabled​@@amostlynottoxicdude8002

@kuolettavaVids

4 ай бұрын

@@amostlynottoxicdude8002 There's a Firefox addon you can get that will show them.

@hind6799

4 ай бұрын

@@amostlynottoxicdude8002 its a browser addon

@joshthejuicy

4 ай бұрын

Would like to say the dislike feature isn't inherently trust worthy. I've had multiple times where it gave nonsense numbers so don't take it as gospel

Damn this dudes getting dunked on again today for trying to make a dumb tie in from Fallout 1 into Fallout 4

@GHOSTRIDER373737

Ай бұрын

It was a joke. He later stated it was funny that he could make up some random stuff and get his tweet view by almost 10 million times.

@burr7259

Ай бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 found his KZread account guys 😂😂

@DrooledOn

Ай бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 Tell that to the people defending him lmao.

@jujuteuxOfficial

Ай бұрын

@@GHOSTRIDER373737 this isn't the first time, everytime he gets blowback he says it's actually just a joke

@RoboRoby321

Ай бұрын

Damn he should spend the same amount of time writing stories as he does thinking of jokes to tell the community ​@@GHOSTRIDER373737

Unrelated but... does anyone know the song at 2:04:30

TLDW: reddit was a mistake

@toby2581

4 ай бұрын

In a very real way, it was one of the primary forces that destroyed discourse on the Internet.

@MidlifeCrisisJoe

4 ай бұрын

Always has been.

@ShadowFox178

4 ай бұрын

Reddit: you got a source for that? Meanwhile Reddit defames and spirals into levels of 4chan isolated board humour, more so than 4chan ever did.

@defenestrationismyfavoriteword

4 ай бұрын

Truly a shock.

@synmad3638

4 ай бұрын

Making fun of Reddit is fun but this video clearly shows that the issue here is much wider.

I appreciate your choice of background music in the video. You reminded me of the great game that Obra Dinn is, and it fits so nicely with the theme of video, great atmosphere.

@courtney6816

4 ай бұрын

It fits the structure of the video well. He’s analyzing a situation, and using his factual observations to form conclusions that help him to identify 3 people. In Obra Dinn, you’re filling out the logbook, and in this video, he’s documenting who attributed to the lies and hate surrounding Emil.

Speaking of your Elder Scrolls content, in your Morrowind video you asked why other developers don't copy Bethesda's games the way they've copied Dark Souls. I don't recall you ever really answering that question. Do you have any other thoughts on that topic?

@spike1269

4 ай бұрын

@@theincrediblefella7984 You have to be extremely arrogant to proclaim your opinion as objective fact. Video game quality is subjective.

@eric_clover

4 ай бұрын

​@@spike1269don't worry, he didn't watch the video.

@Spellweaver5

4 ай бұрын

@@theincrediblefella7984 * NKB doesn't like Bethesda, nor does he like Starfield. He never attacked anyone for disliking their games. * All of them are terrible, huh? I mean, I agree, but I'm not sure Pat or Creetosis would.

@kalecraft8906

4 ай бұрын

​@@spike1269rolf it's absolutely not. People who say shit like this clearly don't understand what having standards is

@spike1269

3 ай бұрын

@@kalecraft8906 The standards you are talking about are also subjective.

Despite this video, I still don't like the guy. Before all the drama blew up, I had heard that he was responsible for Oblivion's best quest and Fallout 4's main story, and my reaction was "Then Oblivion's best quest is either overrated or a fluke" as I hadn't played Oblivion at the time. I am very skeptical of people writing one highly rated thing being given supreme writing authority on anything. I have been burnt a surprising amount of times by that very thing happening. The man is just not a good writer. He's certainly experienced and can tell something that functionally works, but he can't tell anything great.

@Maximum432

Ай бұрын

He wrote the one mediocre quest line among a sea of asinine low-quality quests.

There is another thing that while it didn't get touched on in this video that Patrician did discuss that I think is more important. Emil is the only writer in the credits on Starfield. Some of the quest designers write some of the minor quests, but when you're talking about this scale of game with the main story, the 4 different faction questlines and everything else on top of that, I think the issue here is more that Bethesda needs to hire more writers to take some of the pressure off Emil.

@justafan-tn4ny

4 ай бұрын

Honestly not a fan of dog piling but yeah they have to switch it up for elder scrolls 6 man. That's one of my most anticipated games ever and the writing in the last few Bethesda games has me worried.

@internaltext

4 ай бұрын

There's 11+ credited writers for F4. Emil being a lead writer doesn't mean he writes the 'biggest quest', leads in industry generally are mid/upper level management who are the ones relaying development processes upwards to execs/shareholders like their publisher or CEO. Other duties could involve some writing but mostly you're setting certain themes at a very high level, approving of the writing of the people that report to you, and keeping track of progress.

@internaltext

4 ай бұрын

You could argue that the smallness of the story and the contrived themes equating synthetics to issues like racism indicate a writing lead who is too spineless to push back against execs who want mainstream, sales-driven mass appeal, purposefully avoiding complex moral questions per corpo-capitalist 'safe' betting practices but spineless mid-management isn't rare, it's the norm and doesn't mean one spineless mid-manager like Emil deserves this much hate.

@BlueGamingRage

4 ай бұрын

Or hire real writers

@Bollibompa

4 ай бұрын

​@@internaltext Could also simply be; do it or you're fired. You may call it spineless but he has a family and it is a job. It's not like him standing up to corpo-greed would be rewarding for you or him. They would just hire someone spineless to do what they want and Emil would be jobless.

Creetosis talks like Napoleon Dynomite.

@andrewsad1

4 ай бұрын

Creetosis talks like someone who was inspired by AVGN, but didn't realize that the reason AVGN was fun to watch was because he loved video games

@B-019

4 ай бұрын

​@@andrewsad1Yeah, I genuinely wonder sometimes how much damage was done by the AVGN becoming popular enough for people to learn the wrong lessons from him. You can hear it in the way Creetosis and some other "critics" talk -- as if being abrasive and angry is funny, and that makes it a good critique. Posturing is just not a substitute for substance.

@supershot9729

4 ай бұрын

​@@andrewsad1it's weird to assume something like that just because you don't agree with them

@supershot9729

4 ай бұрын

​@@B-019 so if someone doesn't react to something the way you think they should, or don't write their vids a way you like it means the critique is lesser inherently?

@andrewsad1

4 ай бұрын

@@supershot9729 I'm assuming something like that because I have watched his stuff, and because that's how I think he talks. To your other point, it's not about whether I (or @B-019) agree with them, it's about why and how they're making the content. I've been on the internet longer than you've probably been alive, and over the decades I have learned that anyone who only ever makes essays with titles like "Rise of Trashwalker" and "Utter Garbage" never makes anything worth watching. It is inherently lesser, because it isn't coming from a place of love for the medium, it's coming from a place of hate for the content. Did you know that in the three years that Creetosis has been making videos, they have never once uploaded a positive review of something? They have never once played a game or watched a show that they enjoyed, and decided to write something nice about it. If you know someone who only ever complains about things, and never has anything positive to say about anything, you should not look to them for advice on what TV shows to watch, or what games to play.

Just arrived back from the EFAP coverage and now I'm wholly convinced this video is some sort of test or ARG lmao

@mattc7420

3 ай бұрын

You have a problem when you spend your one life obsessed with one guy.

@theotheraccount

3 ай бұрын

@@mattc7420 you have an even bigger problem when you live your life obsessed with defending the honor of a game corporation that left you for a richer guy.

Where exactly did you get the "Creetosis calls himself an expert" from? You didn't even show your source in this video.

@fumblingdetective

20 күн бұрын

I noticed that too.

Personally, I think this video would've been much better if you had a design document!

@TheJudoJoker

4 ай бұрын

NeverKnowsBest? More like NeverUsesDesignDocuments

@KallenScarlet

4 ай бұрын

Factual! CORRECT! ...This is sarcasm, right? >.>

@JackWse

4 ай бұрын

Live stream with newspaper and dates or it didn't happen! Also... Open source platform that shows that you didn't have AI running in the background... Is and only on an apple computer... As only an apple user wouldn't know how to change the date..

@feduckil9238

4 ай бұрын

Wait, jokes asides, but he literally does, it’s in the description… that’s why the video is so good!

@Salmagros

4 ай бұрын

Funny thing is he actually included a pastepin link to a well documents of all source and timestamp.

I can't wait for PatricianTV's 5-hour rapid response video. EDIT: I underestimated his power (by about 7 hours).

@CorvoFG

4 ай бұрын

Five hours of foaming at the mouth “I’m right, I’m always right” ranting.

@XavierGoncalves89

4 ай бұрын

​@@CorvoFGfound the starfield apologizer

@SoroskiJae

4 ай бұрын

​@@CorvoFGHave you even watched any Patrician videos? He can get a little pretentious, but he isn't rabid or unhinged like Creetosis.

@CorvoFG

4 ай бұрын

@@XavierGoncalves89not me. I think it’s a terrible game full of boring quests. I also think Patrician is a raving egotist who believes that only his opinion matters.

@XavierGoncalves89

4 ай бұрын

@@CorvoFG That doesn't invalidate any of his points

1:12:42 the "using a GDD is a thing of the past" article says the exact opposite of what you're portraying it to be

@ExValeFor

4 ай бұрын

boy, i wonder how long it is until your comment gets nuked

@WOLGANGFALKE

4 ай бұрын

Not the exact opposite. It actually describes exactly what Emil describes in his presentations and interviews.

@Skibinio

4 ай бұрын

@@WOLGANGFALKE nah, neverknowsbest is using the article to prove that people don't use GDDs anymore. From what I've read in the article (link in the pastebin in desc) an internal wiki is a GDD, and as such GDDs are used. Then, tbf, it's not clear to me what the point of this video is, because never contradicts himself a couple of times later.

@WOLGANGFALKE

4 ай бұрын

@@Skibinio "nah", he goes on to say that some studios still use it during pre production directly after your timestamps quote. And the quote on the website is literally that it's outdated and then claims exactly what he and emil are saying. Edit: I have to admit that the quote about Design docs being outdated is taken out of context. The article itself names it as a point brought up by people in a reddit point and then continues to adress it. While I have to admit that it very much seems like NKB might have not read the entire article I'll have to still argue that the article itself still very much argues in Emils and NKBs case( what NKB elaborates on after the timestamp) It reads: "We don't use a monolithic GDD that evolves during development, but rather a document that can be used by the team to get up to speed." Which is exactly what Emil is advocating for. Again. The article itself doesnt advocate for it being "outdated" per se. Also also for a personal fyi. I am making the case for Emil being misrepresented by his lets just call them "detractors". I myself think a design doc is a definite must. Or at least in the way the article mentioned describes it.

@monstergelo1072

4 ай бұрын

That's exactly what's this video tells, tf are you on​? @@Skibinio

Creetosis is really hard to listen to. I'm glad I'd never heard of him before this.

The Thomas the Tank Engine music accompanying the hate train is such a fun touch

"From the evidence you have seen, do you think this man needs to be fired?" No, I think he needs to be fired, because, - with him as the lead writer, the writing quality has been on a steep decline - even if you treat all of his talking points in the "infamous speech" in good faith, he does none of the the things he talks about as being his writing process

@ghgtare

4 ай бұрын

Emil isn't even the lead writer at Bethesda anymore. Design lead =/= lead writer.

@reanamet1901

4 ай бұрын

@@ghgtare Fair correction. The games' design has also been on a steep decline.

@finalfantasymad

4 ай бұрын

@@reanamet1901 Exactly. Even worse. XD

@aaronmontgomery2055

4 ай бұрын

​@ghgtare so he is even more to blame.

@hendricksausges3006

4 ай бұрын

Agree.

Here is the situation, he is the lead writer at bethesda, the main issue a lot of us have with bethesda is that their writing sucks. its only fair that if we're looking for someone to blame its the lead writer in the studio. Seeing his tweets and the way he speaks about writing in general makes it very hard to believe that he doesn't have a big hand in how bad the writing has been.

@coolkumla

4 ай бұрын

okay? that's doesn't mean it's okay to attack the dude and screaming about how he should be fired. im not the biggest fan of the writing either but attacking him isn't going to solve anything

@kalecraft8906

4 ай бұрын

​@@coolkumlaokay so what about the thousands of normal rational people who aren't attacking him that also think the writing is bad? You're not addressing the issue you're just distracting from it

@coolkumla

3 ай бұрын

@@kalecraft8906 because that's not what the video is about. The video is about the attacking and screaming at him

@TheHalogen131

3 ай бұрын

​@@coolkumlaThe attacks did not come out of nowhere, though. L

@coolkumla

3 ай бұрын

@@TheHalogen131 L for I guess

Just watched EFAP 270. Ouch.

@benjamingrant5970

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, this whole video is just a 2 hour disingenuous hatchet job against KZreadrs who get more views. Pathetic really.

@bigfishtheory5001

4 ай бұрын

@@benjamingrant5970 like creeptosis, bruh

@artoriasoftheabyss1495

4 ай бұрын

@@bigfishtheory5001 "I pray for my mans Emil..." your words, parasocial freak.

@bigfishtheory5001

4 ай бұрын

@@artoriasoftheabyss1495 with that name and pfp and not understanding the phrase, makes this the whitest comment I've ever seen.

@androsh9039

4 ай бұрын

EFAP is garbage, so hopefully their viewers don't overlap with Neverknowsbest's fandom.

I think I need to work on my critical thinking skills. Some of my opinions are way too impacted by my emotions

@raquetdude

4 ай бұрын

Mood

@william_prescott_ii3277

4 ай бұрын

Well, then you are like almost everyone else. Most youtubers or public speakers seem to think critically when they speak or act a certain way. But, in truth they too think from their emotions. Just look at all the Obsidian fanboys brigading against Bethesda.

@Uniboros

4 ай бұрын

that's ok. you are human - our emotions inform our decisions and perspectivies.

@factandsuspicionpodcast2727

4 ай бұрын

No shame in that. You're human. The very fact that you recognize your biases will help you work around them. It's a problem we all deal with.

@MadDoodles

4 ай бұрын

The fact that you recognise this puts you several steps ahead of many people. Keep at it. 👍

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.

@Kyfow

4 ай бұрын

Based and democracypilled

@Owlpunk

4 ай бұрын

But then I got an arrow to the knee.

@bad_teeth

4 ай бұрын

pin this

@me-to0

4 ай бұрын

We won't go quietly, the legion could count on that

@Azumgi

4 ай бұрын

Based

love the way suspicion was explored in this video

2:13:50 always the craziest part about these kinds of people to me. Why is there an entire engagement farm of hating games when these kinds of people can just celebrate the games they like?

I agree with your general message, but the fact that youtubers don't actually know the reason why bethesda games have garbage writing, among other things, doesn't subtract from the fact that bethesda's games writing is indeed boring and below current standard for rpg genre. And Emil is in a lead role in that department, so he does hold responsibility for it. And so I think it is reasonable to criticize him personally for it. Criticizing people on the internet always takes ugly forms, that's bad and sad and stuff, but what can you do.

@SuperBallani

4 ай бұрын

Except all of that is YOUR opinion, like the other shitting on Bethesda's writing is THEIR opinion, and maybe just the people who loves it don't say it out loud as much as the people who doesn't like it, because they have seen how much hate they would receive and don't want to engage with that. Personally i think Starfield is possibly the best written Bethesda game all around, a good chunk of the factions quests were incredible, a lof of the side quests were really engaging, the voice acting got TREMENDOUSLY better than previously, the facial animations got much better as well for the most part, and the main quest actually managed to made me emotionnal at one momant, and tackles some more deep thematics than i remember seeing in any of their previous game. That's what i think, but i don't bother saying it too much on the Starfield subreddit or elsewhere, because i don't want to engage in never ending arguments about it, i just appreciate this part of the game when i play it.

@sneakman9873

4 ай бұрын

@@SuperBallani Emil being the lead writer and design director and the majority of players not enjoying Starfield's writing aren't opinions. I'm glad you like the writing. That's awesome I wish I could be in your shoes, but I as well as the majority are not enjoying it. Who else do you think we should voice the our complaints to other than the lead?

@sandrei2992

4 ай бұрын

@@SuperBallaniyou’re just wrong and i wont bother arguing about it

@skanaraki2161

4 ай бұрын

I'm not going to lie, I haven't played Starfield yet but I recently got into Betheda games like 3 years ago and as much as I love their games they really have gotten progressively worse over time. I started with Skyrim, loved it and during my playthrough I decided to go back and play Oblivion and then Morrowind. After having played the games in reverse order in my opinion Morrowind is the best thing Bethesda has ever made and it has since become my favorite game of all time. What I don't understand is how they managed to make things more generic, more dumbed down and more stale with every following entry. It just baffles me. So many decisions made in Oblivion and Skyrim leave me scratching my head as to why they went in the direction they went. What upsets me the most is that they seemingly remove things arbitrarily. I don't expect levitation to ever make a come back in any future tes games because they made an in-lore explanation for why it's no longer a feature, which is upsetting but I can live with it. But why did they remove spellcrafting from Skyrim? Why did they remove water walking? Why did they remove the stat differences between races? Why did they do away with classes and attributes? None of these decisions make sense to me. I can't imagine how much more upset I would be if I actually played the games in order and got to witness the dumbing down myself. I'm currently playing through Fallout 4 and that game is the perfect example of the fact that Bethesda does not know what an RPG is anymore. Besides the main story clashing heavily with type of games that the Fallout games are, why does my male character have to be a soldier? Why does my female character have to be a lawyer? And why are the characters voiced??? How do any of these things contribute to the experience of creating your own character and exploring the world of the game the way you want to? I basically always feel bad when I'm not doing the main quest because I feel like trying to find Shaun should be the most important thing on my character's mind, and that sucks. I haven't even finished the game and I already knew that Shaun is probably a lot older then when we last saw him because my character has no way of knowing how much time has passed since they witnessed him getting taken and then falling asleep again. And the story makes it so obvious with how your character is constantly repeating that they're looking for an infant. I don't agree with people personally attacking the writers but they just haven't been doing a good job since Morrowind. What urks me is that they take established lore and change it justify their bad writing decisions. Alduin was just the Nordic interpretation of Akatosh just like the Altmer had their Auriel interpretation of the same being. Changing Alduin to be separate from Akatosh makes sense to you if you want to tell an epic story about fighting a Dragon that has the power to end the world, but it makes the lore (the bread and butter of TES) less cooler and makes Nords overall less interesting. Yes, not everything is bad, the games are still fun but the criticism is 100% warranted imo.

@mescalinedream5193

4 ай бұрын

retard

I think Todd doesn't get the same type of vitriol as Emil because he comes off as a charming used car salesman.

@justinbinns7553

4 ай бұрын

lol what Todd gets an overwhelming barrage of hatred, what are you talking about? Todd as definitively the most memed man in the whole game industry. The only thing I think that protects Todd is the fact that he doesn’t used social media, which honestly is pretty smart on his part.

@arkeshn729

4 ай бұрын

@@TNTspaz who said he was a writer? He's the face of Bethesda.

@arkeshn729

4 ай бұрын

@@justinbinns7553that's why I said the same type of hate. Todd has been memed so much it created levity. Todd "tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies" Howard oversells games. Emil is being treated like he doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

@TheMCmace

4 ай бұрын

Todd gets memed on since almost a decade

@TheMCmace

4 ай бұрын

Emil wouldn't get all that hate if he wouldn't blame the player @@arkeshn729

"Bad gaming criticism" hih i wonder why so many ppl have the same views and hundreds of thousands of ppl watch those different channels with the same facts on this company. So weird am i right?

the obra dinn music was a nice touch