Libertarians: My theory works if A) Everyone is nice B) Everyone is not mean C) I can be mean and not nice

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

I get treated pretty well when I go into a supermarket. Never had a supermarket employee kick me in the face.

@zrexx9428

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstlast9916 Possibly because there are laws preventing them from doing so.

@albinopolarbear8229

2 жыл бұрын

D) my connection is cutting out

@zach-rac

2 жыл бұрын

Holy hell that's such an excellent summation of pretty much every single libertarian caller I've heard thus far - well done~! xDDD

@dantheman332

2 жыл бұрын

Dude.... you boiled libertarian philosophy down to perfect simplicity

How in the world does Sam hold his pose for so long?

@frankmcgovern5445

3 жыл бұрын

He’s been frozen into immobility by repressive governmental regulations. In a Libertarian society he would be free to move around and stuff.

@NeoRipshaft

3 жыл бұрын

@@frankmcgovern5445 That is by far the most cogent and compelling argument for libertarianism I've ever heard. =D

@Kropothead

3 жыл бұрын

Because he’s a goddamn sigma male. Look at him holding that frame.

@NeoRipshaft

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Kropothead No doubt. I saw the Crowder debate; Sam made Crowder break frame so hard that it put him in the hospital.

@mrlboroughocho786

11 ай бұрын

Im more impressed by the ventriloquism

How to debunk a libertarian- let them speak.

@jewsco

4 жыл бұрын

That is so true

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

How to debunk a liberal: let them explain the difference between legal and illegal drugs.

@stevonwhite8933

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstlast9916 WTF does that have to do with anything? Not to mention most liberals have more conservative opinions especially, with opinions on a need for social democracy promoted by many leftists. Leftists≠Liberals

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevonwhite8933 are you for legalizing all drugs (including antibiotics) and do you consider yourself a liberal?

@stevonwhite8933

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstlast9916 Liberal?FUCK NO. And no I don’t want to legalize all drugs that’s some libertarian bullshit. But, let me ask you some questions… 1. Do you believe in taxes? 2. Do you believe in regulations?

"We dont want monopolies" Okay wtf is even a libertarian at this point

@frankmcgovern5445

3 жыл бұрын

They don’t even know.

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

Name one monopoly in human history that lasted over 100 years. They don’t exist. Monopolies are fake fears.

@TheSquareOnes

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstlast9916 Probably because most societies have at least had the common sense to realize that it's a really bad idea to allow them to exist, I'm not a historian but I assume most get defeated by non-economic methods like the sherman anti-trust act. This is a dumb argument anyway, 100 years is longer than either of us will live. That's like saying "name one global extinction event that prevented life from ever continuing on the planet," just because the environment might recover and introduce new generations of organisms doesn't mean an impending catastrophe is a "fake fear" for the generation it's coming down on. A bad thing is a bad thing regardless of its permanence or how commonly it happens.

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheSquareOnes it’s not a bad idea to allow monopolies to exist. The “worst” case of a monopoly was standard oil in 1870. And standard oil decreased prices and increased quality every year it existed. Standard oil was good for the people. Eventually, they lost market share because electricity was invented. Monopolies in free markets last maybe a maximum of 25 years and help the people out a lot. If government gets involved, monopolies last much longer or until the product goes obsolete. Let’s say that the government took over apple when the iPhone came out and banned all competition in order to stop the monopoly. What would have happened? Androids wouldn’t exist. Phone cameras would never have improved. We would still be stuck on iPhone 3.

@SteveGellerMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@firstlast9916 It is a bad idea to allow monopolies to exist, even though you happen to be able to provide an anecdote or two where it wasn't a bad outcome. Look at Wal-Mart, which comes into a town and bankrupts most of the rest of the stores. Small businesses can't compete, because there's no way they can offer prices as low as products made in poorer countries, they can't retrain their skills or change their inventory to become more competitive, because Wal-Mart sells everything, and they can't move to a more amenable community, because Wal-Mart is either already there too or will be there in 6 months. And once the businesses have shut down and people have no choice, they crush everyone's wages because they know their employees have limited options of where to work, especially for a high enough salary to afford products from anywhere other than Wal-Mart. If they were truly allowed to merge with the other big box stores too, they'd likely just give their employees Store Credits to work there, and not pay them any money at all. On the whole, rare cases and the rare benevolent company aside, most monopolies do far more damage than help. Are people in their garage going to invent a widget that can outcompete the local oil company and its vast number of resources? Usually not, which is why these companies should be broken up. As you said yourself, it happened to be the invention of electricity, which was not necessarily done simply to compete with the oil market, that brought down Standard Oil. If that hadn't happened, how do we know Standard Oil would only have been a monopoly for 25 years? Or that in year 26 it wouldn't have succumbed to the endless corruption of most other major companies?

When you destroy someones argument so thoroughly that they apologize to you at the end of the discussion, you know your a boss.

Actually the river caught fire 13 times.

I never thought I’d so look forward to a man asking people if they have diarrhea.

Calling in to a radio show is one of the most nerve wracking things I've ever done! I've done it 3 times and I'm pretty sure I sounded like this dude.

Maybe the biggest benefit to a libertarian system would be phones that don’t keep cutting out

I’m a Libertarian. That’s why I’m against the Chamber of Commerce and the Rotary Club and the Elks too, I think.

Every libertarian complains that they are the real libertarian

LMFAO!!! this was perhaps the funniest conversation I have ever heard on this subject... these liberatarians are so confused and misinformed its comical and tragic.

I've been going through listening to these Sam Sedar, libertarian debates, and it seems to me like these libertarians have really lousy phones.

That ending - wow that was pure GOLD. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

uhm actually "most of this country's early history" was slaves building infrastructure for free XD

"Do you have diarrhea?" "Not right now." He's wise enough to know he'll be getting diarrhea soon at least

I just have to say this was insightful and hilarious and the ending made me fucking bust out laughing... "Well... I still have no idea what libertarianism is"

It's literally like talking to programmed children..

The diarrhea question lol. So good

Sam got a bit harsh on this one. It became clear that the caller was unprepared and not that bright pretty quickly. At that point, just call off the fight lol

@zach-rac

2 жыл бұрын

Okay but... that's most libertarians in my experience thus far. Tho I must admit I have a personal bias for them, since I love listening to these calls... xDDD

@NickolaiPetrovitch

Жыл бұрын

But that’s all of them

Wow that was painful to listen to

Was this the young version of Ya’run Brook?

They have tried to do it by state and got the burning Cuyahoga river in 1969 as a result. This idea of state regulation has been tried and has utterly failed. The abject failure of state to regulate pollution is a major reason the EPA was created in the first place. Couple that with the fact all of your individual legal recourse of damage done is through laws passed through the EPA. The only people who would benefit from the dissolution of the EPA are polluters.

The optimum crisis is the best example that pharmaceutical companies will not do the right thing. Profits come first.

Wow, the opioid crisis certainly utterly disproved this guy’s theory about drug companies doing the right thing. The huge profits were in lying to people about the safety of their drug, and they pushed it when they knew full well how dangerous it was.

@robinsss

3 жыл бұрын

but the drug companies are not to blame for those consumers getting their hands on the drugs the doctors prescribed the drugs and are the only ones that can so they are to blame for that

@liberator6

3 жыл бұрын

@@robinsss Doctors were mislead by the drug companies, who told them that the new opioid formulas were safer than the old ones, and that they did not pose a risk of addiction like the old opioid formulas did. Drug company reps encouraged doctors to prescribe the opioids freely because they were “safe.” If the drug companies hadn’t lied, the doctors would not have prescribed all those drugs the way they did. Remember, most doctors are not pharmacologists, and they rely on information from the drug companies themselves and the FDA to inform them about the safety and efficacy of the drugs they prescribe.

@robinsss

3 жыл бұрын

@@liberator6 ''''''''Doctors were mislead by the drug companies, who told them that the new opioid formulas were safer than the old ones, and that they did not pose a risk of addiction like the old opioid formulas did.''' where's your proof of that?

This guy probably got upset because his home owners association won't let him have a fence

straw man, minimum government, maximum freedom duh...

@angelicacharm3913

6 жыл бұрын

TOMMY TOWNE yes, working 80 hour weeks to barely afford rent in a cardboard box because there's no protected minimum wage, yeah that's freedom!

The caller asks to eliminate the Department of Commerce, openly states he doesn't know what it does, and then CONTINUES DEBATING. God grant me 1% of the unfounded self-confidence of the average libertarian.

Yes, more people would need to sue if the corporations weren't being stopped from killing them by government regulations.

Let me try to help clear this up. We have not been under a Libertarian Economy. Not for 32 years, not for 50, not for 10 or 5. A Libertarian Economy would involve many things, including but not limited to: 1) Abolition of all tariffs, 2) Massive Reduction/Elimination of Minimum Wage 3) Extensive deregulation in all sectors of Life 3) Elimination of the EPA 4) Elimination of the Federal Reserve. 5) Repeal of Affordable Healthcare Act. That's only economic changes, not political.

We have free will. But others have free will to react to your decisions

Add another 3 trillion in debt in the last two years. There is no way in hell it gets paid off. . Ever

@benjenkins8213

10 жыл бұрын

It doesn't matter what the debt is. It will never get paid off and it was never meant to be paid off. Just please do some research on our current monetary system, the people that created it, and the federal reserve note. Hopefully you will gain the understanding that this entire economy is one giant con game.

@wthf5

10 жыл бұрын

way ahead of you. Yes a pyramid scheme of the worst kind.

@benjenkins8213

10 жыл бұрын

wthf5 Way ahead of you? Where is the race?

@benjenkins8213

10 жыл бұрын

wthf5 If you are still counting the "National debt" you aren't "way ahead of anyone" Even if there wasn't a "national debt" (the US government owing money to anyone other than the federal reserve) congress would owe whatever notes are in the "monetary supply" plus interest to the federal reserve. That means this nation is in perpetual debt. Even if there was no "National" debt.

@wthf5

10 жыл бұрын

I realize that. I didn't mean to come across that way to you. I've been studying the workings of the federal reserve for the the better part of 15 years. I understand the system very well and completely agree with you. I was just touching on a mere morsel of what is happening financially in the west. .

Mr. Seder I am going to do my paper on you...you are fucking awesome

the problem with that is that every libertarian would describe themselves as someone who know what they're talking about and do a fair job of representing their principles. "no true Scotsmen"

That phone call is an example of an inexperienced producer/call screener; you never let a caller on the air who is using speaker phone, or a hands-free device.

@emofascist

2 жыл бұрын

They dont screen calls

Most people who criticize libertarians have no idea what our philosophies are. He continually asked "Who has standing?" regarding river pollution. The caller was not very eloquent but he did mention that property rights takes precedent, meaning that you cannot deface or harm something you do not own. Companies don't own the river and therefore one does not have to have standing to hold them accountable for their pollution. If Sam Seder actually read about libertarianism he would know this.

Critically think about this. Most people agree that these are all horrible things, but why is government the only way to stop these things? Nearly all progress in society throughout history has not come from government.

As for the EPA: The United States, until around the Civil War operated very differently in regards to pollution. Back then, there was no need for an entity such as the EPA, because the government acted in a very libertarian fashion. When a factory began operations, and began to pollute, it could be sued for violating the homesteaded air rights of local homeowners. Industries had even begun to create technologies to reduce emissions, 200 years ago!

go look up her wikipedia bibliography. as for arguments against...well, i don't even think they are necessary and i can't remember any off the top of my head but they are out there - try your local library but i bet there are plenty of articles online too

Saying the FDA should not exist is ridiculous. Corporations constantly know of health issues and deadly consequences and still release the product

also over the past 30 years we have seen massive deregulation of financial industry. instead of placing limits on what games wall street can play gov't stepped aside and said do whatever. this led of course to them gambling on people's homes (in conjunction with bank who held the mortgages) and we all know what that led to. keep in mind that as the economy seems to be doing badly, big corporations and the rich are reporting historic profits. small gov't gives more power to the rich

Didn’t realize Sam was a ventriloquist

"Companies don't give a fuck about your safety, they only care about profit." Next question: Are the two mutually exclusive? If profit comes from the exchange of value, then the only way they would be mutually exclusive is if safety had no value whatsoever. Does safety have value? Well, we know it does, otherwise there would be no debate about profit versus safety. So if safety has value, and profit can be made through the exchange of value, then the two are not mutually exclusive.

Why is this guy breathing so hard lol

The two callers and their friends disliked this video.

So, if a farmer has 1,000 acres of land which a river or creek runs through he cannot dump chemicals and pesticides into it if the entirety of the creek does not remain on his land, i.e. if anything he does infringes on another private citizen he will be held accountable. If you think about libertarianism it is very simple: respect property rights, public and private; and adhere to the non-aggression principle, which is refraining from the initiation of force, including violence and coercion.

If you don't like taxes, stop using the roads that it paid for, don't go to public hospitals, don't drink from public water supplies, opt out of social security, medicare, and everything. Actually, why don't you just renounce your citizenship? If you don't like our government and its taxes, why do you want to be a part of it at all?

A libertarian system has shitty phone reception.

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

A socialist phone system communicates with smoke signals.

@evlmpyr

2 жыл бұрын

@@firstlast9916 you can do better than this. What you posted really has no zing. It doesn't make much sense, either. Are you saying indians are socialist?

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

@@evlmpyr tribes are fiercely egalitarian actually. If you hoard in a tribe, you will get killed by the rest of the tribe. That’s why Indian tribes never grew. They stayed in the Stone Age. You can’t trade anything in tribes. You will get killed if you try. Everything is shared.

@evlmpyr

2 жыл бұрын

man cite your source, then stay on topic.

@firstlast9916

2 жыл бұрын

@@evlmpyr you want a source for why Indian tribes are not as good as capitalism? The answer is in your hand. It’s called a smart phone. No Indian tribe in existence today can make one. Socialism works in tribes. Not in society. We can’t share our way into creating an iPhone.

@thesparitan On your channel page you speak of clarity and directness. Your comment does not seem clear or direct. Or is it me?

Because as soon as it does, you're toast. So instead of focusing on the decisions of the consumer, the correct place to look is at the incentives of the producer. There is no incentive for the producer to produce flawed goods. It doesn't matter if it takes days, or if it is instantaneous: a destroyed reputation is a destroyed reputation. The incentive is for the producer to not only produce a safe product, but a product that is safer than the competition's product.

Ohhh dear...poor little libertarians. Nice Job Sam!

I'm not a Libertarian. But talking to people with this condescending tone reminds me of Hannity & O'reilly. Imagine if this is how people criticized your ideas, would you come away from that discussion with anything other than anger?

This argument is pointless unless someone else ownes the river. In a market society companies can largely do whatever they want. If they pollute a river that they dont own, it doesnt matter as long as no one else owns it. And, if they pollute a river that someone else owns, it will be considered fine as long as the owner agrees too the pollution.

So the status quo has worked so damn well for us so far?

Native Americans kept dying. Africans had naturally immunity to the plagues left on blankets. Also, they were more familiar with the land, so it was easier to wipe them out, then actually deal with branding and indoctrination.

If Obama represents the views of all Liberals, then Alan Greenspan represents the views of all Libertarians.

You do want to maximize that freedom. And if that means your phone sucks, so be it.

If you live in another planet. How did the first caller back him into a corner? The first caller said there should be no regulation. If there is no regulation, knowing through actual facts about global warming. What will the libertarian system do about pollution? What will it do about regulating companies not making slaves of children in sweatshops? It's already happening abroad, what would stop a company do it in the US? With your kids. And what about the people who cannot afford education?

I wonder where this guy is now. Did keep down the rabbit hole that let to something like Trump or is he deprogrammed.

Every time I talk to a Libertarian they like to talk about Minor products, EG If 2 companies make a toaster the company that makes the better/cheaper/ETC toaster will win, thus the market will self-regulate good/bad products. They then try to equate this to everything else in life, Except it falls down when any real world example of companies doing anything to earn a dollar, (Smoking,BP,Fracking,Pollution,ETC) Also like Sam points out, they have absolutely no idea how Courts work.

sooo, you want me to do your research for you?

This isn't a voluntary relationship. It must be considered that, without their consent, without being asked, every person finds themselves claimed by a government that they cannot resist; a government that forces them to pay money, to render service. A government that from it’s very premise removes the most basic part of his or her autonomy, based on an arbitrary geographic location in which their parents decided to give birth. There is no such thing as an 'implied' contract.

The Federal Reserve is the fourth central bank to operate in the United States. The Bank of North America was created shortly after the Articles of Confederation in 1781. It was replaced by the First Bank of the United States in 1791 after the Constitution was ratified in 13 states. It was ruled unconstitutional and lost its charter in 1811. Shortly after the war of 1812, due to war debt, the Second Bank of the United States opened. 20 years later it was shut down, for the same reason.

I agree. The rich are a burden.

I think that the first Libertarian just INHALED too deeply before phoning Sam !! What a waste. Evidently not one of God's best creations. OMG. I feel so dumb and embarrassed after listening to the second 'Libertarian' !!!

@kazooga1234 those drugs won't be cleared for sale in the US (especially if they are of a prescription only class) and insurance companies, along with most pharmacies, won't stock or cover them.

Anything that is not private property is public domain. Therefore, since no one in particular owns the river the people own the river and can certainly hold a corporation accountable for pollution. You seem to think that there are no rules in a libertarian society, when in fact there are many of the same rules and we just choose to actually enforce them rather than let corporations bribe politicians for a free pass, hence one of our focus points is to get money out of politics.

"Companies don't give a fuck about your safety, they only care about profit." Of course they care about profit. Everyone does. Let's get that out of the way. Axiom #1: People are value maximizers. They will engage in a trade if it results in greater value, otherwise known as profit.

im not familiar with the quote but what he seems to be saying is that the gov't of his day (the committee) answers to the bourgeoisie (ie the industrialist of his day). he is basically implying the proletariat (the common people) should control that committee (gov't). please stop making the assumption that the soviet union was communist. it was not in the same way that what are today called free markets couldn't be further from what adam smith intended.

It can also be argued that the U.S. govt. is particularly crony. The notion that whenever ANY govt. gets involved in the private sector causes cronyism, inflation, et al., isn't totally a valid notion. Sweden, Finland, Norway, Holland, Denmark, & disputably even England have pervasive govt. intrusion in the markets & their economies are generally more stolid and have considerably less nepotism and corruption.

A straight line is not a circle unless in the presence of an intense gravitational field. Intense gravitational fields are produced when an incredibly dense object is nearby. You appear to be incredibly dense, therefore I can understand why you think my straight-line reasoning from point A to point C looks like a circle.

@Friedstuffsable And if the F.D.A wasn't there then all those soldiers with PTSD could be taking MDMA right now. It was the govt who told everyone asbestos had no harmful effects for an entire decade, and the govt that never seems to stop the production of pharmaceuticals if the corporations put enough capital in their pocket.

Brutal!

No, you've misunderstood a Libertarian. Libertarians do not believe in the elimination of all government. Many anarchists follow libertarianism since it's the closest party to their beliefs and is also the third largest party, and fastest growing party at the moment. Labeling yourself as any specific party and changing the few views you don't share with the party, to match theirs and label yourself a member of that party, is just ignorant. The philosophy of libertarianism is constitutionalism.

Caller wants to live in a world where if a company produces an unsafe product, people just go lunch them.

Hilarious! Libertarians... they never disappoint!

Regulations are rules. Rules are laws. Supposedly regulations prevent theft. We already have anti-theft laws. How many laws do u need that prevent the same things? Punish those who hurt u not those who don't.

its kinda hard to hear what he is talking about

1. children aren't property so they shouldnt be bought or sold 2. where is the incentive for people to sell themselves into slavery? 3. what do you consider slavery?

libertarians don't say no regulations it's simply saying limit the regulations...

Yes, but property rights supress things that other people consider rights, and that you libertarians seem to forget about. I consider it a right to have acces to clean water. So yes, I would suggest that pollution in ANY form or kind that can effect either the food the farmer grows or directly effect other citisens in any other way should be totally illegal. I also believe in a series of rights that go beyond property rights. Societal rights.

@Sabohaque im surprised that this guy had the balls to just sit there and get completely and utterly ripped asunder for an agonizing (and hilarious) 26 minutes lol

Just pointing out that us Libertarians can be Anarchists as well

I did not say the young men who joined up after Pearl Harbour did so because of the New Deal but the New Deal gave many a reason to fight for a country that had suddenly given them hope for a better future, which it did. The Brits started to come out of recession when we belatedly started to rearm in the very late 30's. Likewise in the US rearmament program (kick started by massive armament orders mainly from he UK lease lend and all that) was the true staring point of Americas economic revival

#4 "Companies don't give a fuck about your safety, they only care about profit." So why can't a drug company profit from offering safe drugs? They can, as long as people value that. But what if as you say a drug company puts out a dangerous drug? Well, let's think through this. You suggest that "wait for the word to spread" is inadequate because it will take time for that to happen. But the mere fact that it will spread will deter anyone from doing that in the first place.

@g1981c Will simple concepts suffice in a world with 7 billion people who are having to deal with limited resources, nuclear weapons and many other complicated global issues?

those in power don't like this idea because it involves removing those who control big industry and whose decisions (unchecked by anyone) dramatically affect the lives of millions. they would be replaced by representatives whose power is drawn from elections and the will of common people. the reason this is never discussed in america is because it's called socialism and capitalists like their power as is, thank you very much

So we seem to be in agreement that if the farmer does anything that violates another person's rights it is immoral. But you hinted at the food that he grows. Are you saying that if his own pollution causes him to produce a sub-par product (say, corn) that he has violated another person's rights? If so, we would certainly disagree on that as I feel the market will provide that one would not buy his crop and purchase a superior one instead. Also, please expand on what you mean by societal rights.

if you don't want raw milk then don't buy it - it's that simple. everything that i buy raw like raw honey says raw in huge letters and i pay double for it being raw - so i don't think you will buy too much raw stuff by accident.

I honestly felt really really bad for this guy lmao

@kazooga1234 It's probably not legal to do so, especially if they are scheduled drugs, and there isn't any guarantee of quality. The other stuff still stands, no insurance company will cover an un-approved drug, and no pharmacy will stock it.

Sound familiar?

the philosophy of libertarianism is that you own yourself. In that sense i am a libertarian. If that's bullshit then Who owns me?

Amen to that.

#5 "Companies don't give a fuck about your safety, they only care about profit." Say you are a drug dealer. You can do one of two things. You can sell the actual good drugs. Or you can sell baking soda. If you sell baking soda, it will take maybe a few days for the word to spread. But what consolation is that? When it does, there will be some angry people coming for you. Whereas if you sell good stuff, your reputation will build. You don't care if it takes a few days for the word to get around.

Jerry, if you're going to adhere dogmatically to a particular belief, shouldn't you know the REAL answers? I think the fact that these people DON'T know the answers speaks volumes about how hard they have really thought about it, or at the very least, what their real motivations are.

sam is bringing the aluminum baseball bat

'It's in their [the drug companies] best interest to give us the best drugs' It's in the interest of chemical companies not to dump toxic waste into rivers. It's in the interests of oil companies to invest in the best equipment to prevent spills. These companies don't do these things, despite them being in their best interests. These companies use cheap equipment, cut corners, and when something goes wrong stage a cover up and massive PR offensive to distort the facts. That's what happens.

Part 3 and students who didn't study had their grades raised because of the smarter kids in the class. Then the smarter kids got a lesser grade once the grades were "redistributed". The next test, the smarter more dedicated students didn't study as hard, and the class suffered thus proving the economic point. You have to account for human behavior in economics. Proven time and time again. You SHOULD have discrepancy in income. It is healthy, and normal. And crony capitalism is a GOV problem!

You have choices thats AMERICAN if you dont think its safe dont take it Follow the Constitution people we need it more now than ever