What I find interesting is that looking at magazines from 40-50 years ago one of the items they talk about is the high cost to get into the hobby. We all remember blue box cars for $2-$4 each and engines for under $20. What we don't remember is that we only made about $2/hr. As we get older we tend to have more spending money that we can use for our hobby. But even as a kid I found ways to make my money go farther. Train shows, yard sales, garage sales were all places I looked for cheap things to use on my layout. I still shop at all of these places. However as I have gotten older I have gotten more selective. The cheap cars that I ran long ago are no longer good enough. Now I want more detail and better accuracy. These things cost money, but they are what I want. If you compare the quality of items we can buy now to what we used to have we are doing pretty well.

@davidcurtis5398

2 жыл бұрын

Hardly ever buy new unless the item is on sale or the store is closing. What ever happened to all of the dies that the "blue box' type of companies had? Modelers just don't want to put the time into assembly any more. Just lazy...

@vondumozze738

2 жыл бұрын

I started my ho layout in 1973 and added on to it up until the end of 1978. I know what you're talking about with the cheap two to four dollar cars and $19.95 engines. My gear was mostly Athearn,, Atlas, and AHM. It's all been in stores since 1980.

@claytons8263

2 жыл бұрын

Between my dad and I we have 14 Challengers and 4 BigBoys a few we bought already assembled but the others are in kits waiting to be assembled in there factory boxes. They are factory new and FULL DIECAST KITS FROM BOWSER from the 50s I know that because the instructions are dated 1950-51.And not to mention the hundreds of dollars we have in 1940s 50s era metal and wood rolling stock that are also kits most are Athearn Blue box kits, All were purchased of E-bay. Yes it's all H.O.

@coachhannah2403

2 жыл бұрын

While extreme detail is certainly cool, think about what you can see in real life at the distance the real items look to be the size of these models and that level of detail is lost. Stand back a bit... Model RR is art. Most art is not super-detailed, but is meant to capture the essence of reality.

@DogRedful

2 жыл бұрын

I control cost by keeping focused…a reasonable sized layout, only one or two projects at a time and avoiding impulse buy of items that don’t fit the layout theme.

When my dad passed away back in January, my mother found out about all the DCC engines with sound that he had purchased over the last two years. Plus rolling stock and a DCC system. She said he mentioned building a layout to her one day a couple years ago so he secretly built up a collection and was going to surprise her one day. He was restoring a old car and she told him he didn’t have time for that lol I still have a big box of old brass track , HO engines, cars and stuff from when I was around 12 years old. I’m now 52. We did a family layout on top of our pool table in the basement. Lots of good memories doing that and buying engines and cars at the hobby shop.

I was born in 1960. Among my many interests were a passion for model railroading as well as short track stock car racing. In the 70’s, if you raced, you built your own car & engine, as well as a trailer to hitch behind your F100 for transporting the beast to the speedway. Also in the 70’s, if you were a model railroader, you built everything on your layout, detailed and airbrushed the Athern and Atlas locomotives to match your favorite road, and wired up simple and cheap DC control using whatever switches, pushbuttons etc. that we could find (model railroading before the internet & Amazon!). The so called “shake the box” car kits ruled the rails cheaply! Fast forward to 2022, and a trip to the local speedway (if you can find one! They’re nearly as scarce as hobby shops!) will reveal that everyone now runs “store bought” race cars, there engines now come from specialty machine shops, and the vast majority of cars are transported in plush 18 wheeler rigs! There are comparatively few cars there now, and sparse numbers of spectators in the stands. Then, examine the model situation. Everything is RTR including structures, the newbie modeler is quickly brainwashed into believing that he HAS to have DCC control, be an electronics expert, and buy the most expensive DCC equipped locomotives, but you have to get on a list a year or more prior to your desired engines release date to stand a chance at getting one of the few they produce! There’s no shelf browsing now! As crazy as it sounds, there’s a lot of parallels between racing and model railroading, such as a loss of craftsmanship, and the fascination with expensive, but not absolutely necessary, things like 18 wheeled transporters and DCC, with its accompanying costly investment in compatible locos. Hundreds of speedways have closed across the US in the past several years including several in my vicinity close to Charlotte, NC, the very heart of stock car racing, due to low car counts and no spectators. Young people aren’t interested in it anymore in part because they can’t afford to even consider putting a car on the track, along with the fact that, as bad as us old farts hate it, there’s a good possibility that the sports time has come and gone! And I firmly believe that the same thing is happening to our hobby. Recently retired (from the railroad ironically!), I’ve dusted 25 years or more of dirt and debris off of my N-Scale layout which has sat unused for that long, and kind of edged back into the hobby, but it’ll be done with 25+ year old Atlas & Kato DC engines. I’ve disassembled them, cleaned all the electrical stuff, lubed where appropriate, and cleaned the rail, so now they’ll all run 100% and crawl when needed! Modeling and the racing thing have been a major part of my 62 years, but they’re both slipping away! I love this channel! Sorry for the book!

@JimmyProductions

7 ай бұрын

As a 14 year old getting into the hobby, I love hearing this from all people. I do rental karts and would one day like to move up to short track racing, but it has gotten quite expensive. That’s why when getting into different hobbies, I always try to buy used or if something is on sale I’ll get it. New isn’t always bad, it’s just that most things new nowadays are pricey!

I am continually amazed by the amount prices have increased in the last few years. Rolling stock in the $50-$75 neighborhood? Not doing it. I try not to spend over $25 for a car and even then it's got to be something I really want. I wish more manufacturers would bring back kits. When manufacters gained access to cheap Chinese labor, they figured out there was a market for RTR and attendant higher profits, so kits largely went away with a few exceptions. (Accurail comes to mind immediately. Their kits are still reasonably priced and not difficult to assemble.) I collected many kits when they were common and affordable. There are often Athearn blue box, Roundhouse and other kits still to be found at train shows. They're inexpensive and will provide a lot of enjoyment, a feeling of accomplishment and a chance to learn new skills. After all, isn't that what the hobby is about?

@mr.e1944

2 жыл бұрын

I just assemble two roundhouse V&T kits last week. That was fun. I used kadee couplers. These are good enough for me. After some light weathering they will look awesome.

@thomasdecker7631

2 жыл бұрын

@@mr.e1944 I collected quite a few Roundhouse old timers back in the day including a number of undecs that I enjoyed painting and lettering for local roads like Pere Marquette, Grand Trunk, Michigan Central and a few others. They provided a lot of fun without breaking the budget.

@gmansard641

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I am surprised at all of the RTR, but more so at the pre-assembled structures.

@chrismiller5198

2 жыл бұрын

It's too bad that Athearn kits and others of that style are no longer manufactured. These were good starter kits for many young modelers. From them I was able to graduate to the detailed wood and metal castings craft kits.

@thepoo1234

2 жыл бұрын

One of my favorite cars are the Athearn Blue Box PS 5344 boxcar kits. They're well detailed, easy to put together, and come in a variety of road names, including a lot of short lines. It's a shame no one makes anything like that now.

Jimmy, I think these days there is way, way too much emphasis on buying things(bells & whistles like DCC plus etc) and not using ones own creativity setting up train displays(especially for children). As my father who grew up in the 1920s depression use to say any fool can spend money! Excellent topic today. Phillip Roe

New technology is needed. Today wifi connected microcontrollers are cheap, small and powerful, supporting OTA reprogramming. Could be controlled via mqqt with high level commands and edge computing. Acceleration/break curves and so on. Short range rfid tags for signals to the train. Build locomotive chassis with a mcu, speaker, light connectors and rfid tag reader. Possibly even swappable tops to change locomotive looks. 3d printable tops to paint. Or detailed printed decals. Or even papercraft modelling on top of rolling chassis. But, I know, it would mean a whole new infrastructure. But I play with the notion of starting from scratch with Esp32, MQTT, WiFi and rfid.

I think it would be helpful to compare model railroading to other common hobbies. One I can think of is photography. It's very difficult to get started for under a thousand dollars. Bicycling? eep! If one wanted to get into, for instance, record collecting and listening, a decent turntable costs as much as you are suggesting for a basic set. The records add to the cost. Various sports, like golf and tennis are also not cheap. If one wants to play a musical instrument, again hundreds. What about gaming on a PC or console? Model railroading isn't cheap, but honestly, if one is serious about something, nothing is cheap. :-) Sure, all of these can be done cheaper (and mostly by buying used equipment--but that's another topic), and I think you showed in this video how to make it cheaper buying new model railroading gear. This was a good video, and I hope manufacturers take notice. I forgot to add. When I was a teenager in the late 70s, model railroading was nearly prohibitively expensive for me. Every turnout was like gold to me. I had the most modest of layouts because of that. Nowadays, I stick to small, switching layouts, also for the expenses. I don't remember model railroading ever being "cheap." ;-) Actually, for me, the most "expensive" part is the real estate--finding a place to put a railroad. This might make a cool topic for a video or series--how to put a railroad in the tiniest of spaces, and see how much railroading functionality you can fit. Shoot. forgot my coffee. It's Aldi German Roast, regular. It's good if you like European coffees.

@DinsdalePiranha67

2 жыл бұрын

I definitely know what you're talking about as far as musical instruments. I have an electric guitar sitting on a stand in the same room as my model railroad for which I paid $1500 in 1998. And now that I've made the jump to DCC with my little switching layout, I know about those costs as well!

@donavonrobbins1908

2 жыл бұрын

I understand the company thinking, but having to pre order and schedule purchases keeps a lot of people with limited "play money" out of the game and drives up prices in the used market. Inaccurate and severely delayed release dates don't help the situation either.

@alphagt62

2 жыл бұрын

Many years ago, I got into model railroading. I was suffering an illness that kept me close to home, so I got into model railroading to pass the time. It truly saved my sanity! But, I chose N scale, for two reasons, it’s the cheapest model railroad you can get into, cheaper than HO, cheaper than Z. And it’s smaller, it’s nearly half the size of HO, and I can turn a train around in half the space. So it required much less real estate. I got over my illness, and now my railroad sits in storage. But, I’m thinking about Z scale, I know it’s prohibitively expensive, and few models are available, but it takes up so little space! You can have a decent layout in a coffee table. But model railroading is like most other things, you get what you pay for. Put money into track! Poor track is the cause of much frustration, if you spend the time and money to build a great track, then you can relax and build your trains up over time. I personally fell in love with scenery, and it is possible to make great structures out of found items like cardboard and paper. I sifted my own gravel, and sand, I made my own static grass maker, great scenery doesn’t have to be expensive. Is railroading expensive? I’m also a musician, and yes, I’ve got many thousands into my bass guitars, (I have 6), amps and speakers, plus the P.A. equipment for the band, lighting, etc. me and the rest of the band collectively have $50 thousand invested, easily. My mother sews quilts, the cost of fabric, notions, and the machines! It requires an entire room dedicated to it, with cutting tables and all manner of expensive scissors, etc. so it is not cheap. My sister does scrap booking. And while I’m sure it can be done cheaply, she’s probably got more money invested than any of us! She has to have the latest everything, and a printer like device that cuts paper into shapes and letters. I also own a Harley motorcycle. While it’s just an extra vehicle to me, I know people who own several, and build projects from the ground up. The tools and space required are astronomical! The guy across the street has a funny car in his shop, and races the local NHRA circuit. I know he and his friends have hundreds of thousands invested. By comparison to many major hobbies, model railroading doesn’t seem all that expansive.

@donavonrobbins1908

2 жыл бұрын

@@alphagt62 I've already commented once, but I. The spirit of your post, I have just one word. Boat.

@alphagt62

2 жыл бұрын

@Donavon Robbins YES! A boat is a hole in the water you pour money into.

I like the ideas you have come up with! I'm kind of an "old school way" guy, started with DC years ago, have upgraded to a bigger/better DCC system, running both and I still have SO MUCH to learn. I'm not the best at learning electronics, or attempting to upgrade locomotives, in fear of messing something up. I have pretty much anything and everything I need/want now, but I didn't have internet where I grew up, so youtubing the How To wasn't possible. I like simple things and having cost effective "basic start up" options sounds great for those just wanting to get in on the fun!

Really enjoying your videos and love your ideas about track layouts! I bought a Bachmann DCC starter set for $350 last month (Jan 2023). You're correct that if was $200, I would have purchased more items to get my layout moving along. Keep up the great videos. BTW, my go to coffee is the Great Value Breakfast Blend. Looking forward towards many more of your tutorials.

I think the cost issue is largely an economy of scale thing and I'm not talking HO or N scale, of course, just number of people in the hobby. For example, if you could see sales numbers for individual engines or rolling stock, I doubt you would find many items that sell over 10,000 units a year. I bet a lot of it is in the low 1,000's and some of the real expensive stuff is probably in the 100's. It's not like the products you see in Walmart that are being made by the hundreds of thousands. When you spread tooling costs across a small number of products, the price goes up. When you are buying relatively small quantities of raw materials to make those products, the cost goes up. Spreading out assembly costs across a smaller number of units, the price goes up and I would expect a lot of these products are using mostly manual labor to assemble. There are quite a few model railroaders out there, but I doubt we are talking millions of people, probably more like a few hundred thousand and at varying degrees of devotion to the hobby. I do work in the consumer product industry and quantity makes an enormous difference in cost. Worldwide inflation and material shortages are driving prices up a lot right now too. DCC might come down a little over time, as more and more people get invested in it, but I doubt we will ever see model railroading become an inexpensive hobby, there just aren't enough people in the hobby to drive that economy of scale.

@cowboyvalley

2 жыл бұрын

@RicklePick, I think you are very correct about this point. And I believe it is BY FAR the biggest reason for costs. Model railroading has never been "cheap" and never will be. We can only hope the hobby and manufacturers stay around. ...Claude

@JF-lt5zc

2 жыл бұрын

There is something to what you said. I'd counter with this: If the scale went up and more options were available at a lower price, I'd be buying new rolling stock left and right. But at $40 and up for new cars, forget about it. I'll stick to used and discount/ebay. Shame really, as there is money to be made if they would go for volume vs, well, whatever this current model is. This same problem effects locomotives. I'd love to buy more Scale Trains stuff, but the runs are so small, it makes it difficult. Pre-orders are always sold out and good luck finding anything at a hobby store. :(

@tomt9543

2 жыл бұрын

@@JF-lt5zc Better yet, try to FIND a hobby shop!

Great Video!! You are right on point with your assessment. I am retired and trying to get into the hobby. While I agree with John Banicki's comment, it is still difficult to spend a large sum of money on something that you are not entirely sure you will enjoy. For example, I am trying to decide between HO and N scale. Space is at a premium so N would afford a more comprehensive layout but HO has more to offer in terms of products and ease of use (I am retired...old).

I just got into N scale last year with the purchase of a Kato set that included a DC power pack, Dcc ready Gevo ES44AC locomotive, M1 track set, and their mixed freight set of cars. It’s a real bargain at $180.

Hey Jimmy dont forget going to train shows for good deals. At the last show I went to a guy had a table full of Bachmann DCC equipted locos for under 50 bucks. True they were older first run locos but I picked up a nice running GP7 for 25 bucks. There are deals out there

@NJP76

2 жыл бұрын

Very true! I have picked up some great deals at model RR shows in the past. I am hoping that they will soon allow model RR shows again in our area. I really miss them.

@freescopesdad

2 жыл бұрын

I went to my first train show recently, the Great American in Sacramento on January 8, 2022. Most of what I saw for sale used in n-scale rolling stock was either junk or priced almost the same as retail new. A couple of vendors actually set up mobile versions of their retail stores and were charging full price. And don't get me started on all of the layouts that were "supposed" to be running... Very few were, and there were some no-shows. In all, I'm not that impressed with train shows.

@OriginalBongoliath

2 жыл бұрын

@@freescopesdad Sounds like you went to these people (TrainShows website) Their shows are generally terrible. Overpriced flea market with very little if any layouts running with people selling their junk they think is gold because it is old. They are on the East Coast under Greenbergs. If you want to find a decent show then avoid these people.

Agree! Your suggestions are on point. My wife knits and yarn for a good sweater is about $200-250 so your starter set price is right on. Train shows are great and ebay is good if you're careful about it. I hope you catch the manufacturers' ears on this! Oh, and I'm not a coffee guy, my caffeine source is hot chocolate - special dark!

@JDsHouseofHobbies

2 жыл бұрын

I went to a train Show in Sacramento this past Sunday and there was quite a bit of old Athearn Blue Box car kits on sale for cheap. That's a great place to start building a collection of equipment for a new model rail.

@ponderingpops

2 жыл бұрын

@@JDsHouseofHobbies I was able to buy two brand new in box Kato SD40-2s and two drop in decoders for less than $250 on Ebay, so about $125 per loco. I still had to install the decoders, so budget-friendly, but not novice-friendly.

@pierce324

2 жыл бұрын

Mmmm, hot chocolate

@friendlypiranha774

10 ай бұрын

@ponderingpops... $200-250 worth of yarn for a good sweater??? What's your wife knitting with... live sheep??? 🤣🤣🤣

Great video Jimmy, you hit great points. I think it's important to research, research, and research. Stay away from highly wanted out of production items.. Paying attention to the new releases and preorders I'd very important to save money. And as you showed, lombards is amazing on there prices! Saving money and bbuying a few things at once and shipping only once can save alot too. Take care!

I think that you are 100% correct with this being one of the biggest problems with model railroading. It took me about 10 years to finally man up and get a nice DCC loco and zephyr controller. I had a very difficult time spending so much on a single locomotive when I could get 3 or 4 of the same model in DC for the same price at a train show. Now that I have DCC and sound I'm completely hooked but with the massive gap in price, that transition was a hard decision to make. (at least for me)

As for budget DCC locomotives, there are a few on occasion. I recently acquired a couple of Atlas Master N ALCo RS-2 Diesel DCC Equipped locomotives for $104.99 each from one of the online hobby stores. With just a little work in tuning the DCC setup, they work pretty good as road switchers. No sound, just direction and speed control with directional lights. They consist reasonably well. The DCC Ready version of the same locomotive sells for $81.99 from the same store. I also bought a set of 6 pieces of rolling stock (2 tank cars, 2 covered hoppers, and 2 gondola) from my local hobby shop (not really a model train store, but they carry a few things and I like to encourage them) for around $90.00, but that and one locomotive shot the $200 price point that you mentioned without track or DCC controller. I love the idea of budget model railroading and starter sets is a good place to start. I don't drink coffee, but I did just enjoy a tall, cold glass for 2% moo juice.

First time I ever disagreed with you. Disclosure: I am 67yo, low vision, and a curmudgeon at best. DCC: Yes, I agree that it has quite a few very nice features. DCC: No, i don't believe this is the way to start people in model railroading. 1) Cost - To expand from simple loop to ? Every step of the way will cost extra. 2) Complexity - Sure, a 30 ~ 40 something might be able to puzzle it out but think how long us 50 ~ 60 somethings take to effectively use their smart phones. 3) Frustration - Number 1 killer of any hobby 4) No percieved need - I want to set up my loop of track, put the trains on it and run! Not fool with more electronics. 5ish A) Understanding how / learning about getting powe to the moter and other forms of electricty. 5ish B) Ok, I get it, ya don't have to understand a microchip to use a smartphne - but it helps. Summery: Don't push DCC on novices. Let them get up and running to the point they have expanded once or twice and have a 'feel' for mosdel railroading. Then Let they explore the options Pros and Cons. Mixed Multi Pacs of Cars? Hmm, ya, that could work. Wish you the best.

@andrewlaverghetta715

Жыл бұрын

As somebody who made a basic layout in the early to mid 90s, I know I was lucky enough to have some older siblings who had collected a bit of track before me. We didn't really know what we were doing, though my dad was an electrical engineer. I remember he had purchased me a couple of my own DC locomotives. They seemed cheap with how it didn't seem like it had to be a special occasion. Somewhere I've got a Conrail HO Athearn locomotive that I probably never got fully assembled. That'd be a pretty steep cost nowadays I feel. I'm 38. Coming back to it to build something with my dad, man, the price feels like it's skyrocketed where even a DC of something that's interesting and in stock is easily over $100. If you want to go under, you're going to compromise on looks it seems, but I guess I didn't care about that much when I was younger. It'd be nice to do DCC...that's what everybody is doing, modeling, promoting, talking about. You search for wiring (like I have been recently) and it's all about DCC. It seems like it's a no brainer though. Why would you want to get all complicated with having to control parts of a layout and not just be able to tell your locomotive what you want? Heck, why can't a loco be Bluetooth? Why can't a hook up something to my phone and tell it to go a certain speed, tap a button for a horn, and all that. I guess I'd only be able to connect to 1 at a time this way, but it seems like something simple with the times that's being overlooked. "Sorry, there's no app for that, but everything else still feels incredibly outdated and expensive."

I think one of the great things about Scale Trains operator series, is, it starts a lot cheaper, BUT. you can purchase the detail sets to make them into Rivet counter looks at a later date, if you wish

Great video Jimmy and thanks for elaborating on cost to get into model railroading. I for one when I started looking for locomotives and rolling stock could've went overboard in a heartbeat! But I had to get to reality living on SSDI knowing I have to shop for deals and be smart about it. I agree w you abt having rolling stock sets of 4-6 priced $50-$75 which is a great buy! I'd like to eventually see retailers do deals like that. Then I'll have to add on to my layout w another railyard that has abt 6 tracks 3'ft long each. Thanks again for sharing your videos Jimmy!

I have been dreaming about getting into the hobby, and recently pulled the trigger on my starting setup. I look forward to playing around with DCC, dipping my toes in scenery, and most of all running trains! Drinking Starbucks Pike Place black (in the middle of the night lol)

Model railroading's biggest problem is that, like ham radio, the vast majority of people in the hobby are in their 60's or older. Everyone younger than that is on their PlayStation or PS4. I took my 8 year old grandsons (twins) to the Pittsburgh Science Center. It has a huge Lionel based layout. Their interest was really brief and was focused on the moving Ferris wheel. It was on to something with a video screen.

I do agree with your suggestion that you try to find less expensive decoders with fewer features, if you can. My reason however is not about the cost but about the operator’s ability to remember all the different functions available and which button to push once you are passed the basics of horn, bell etc. If you have one engine it’s not a big deal, but when you have 25 it’s impossible to remember what type of decoder is in which engine. So, you run pretty basic functions. Now if I could only remember which button to push on which engine so that it calls out its speed 😊

I think you were right on!!!👊🏻 I new to this hobby and got a starter set a few years back. Now that I have the urge to get back into model rr I think these ideas are great!!! My starter set is a DC set but I have 5 pieces of rolling stock, track and a locomotive that is DC which is no problem. Was looking into getting the Digitrax Zepher DCC Command System plus just bought some rolling stock. I have a track plan in mind and hope I can get it together. Stay Safe & God Bless!!!

This is a fantastic video! You highlight my biggest issue with trying to get people into the hobby. The cost scares many people away. If more second hand markets and more consumer savvy manufacturers, I think the hobby would grow significantly.

Hi Jimmy, your suggestiins are not bad suggestions, problem is, manufacturers have tried this. We've stocked the items like this, no one buys them. Everyone says they want cheap rolling stock or locomotives, but when presented with them they scoff at how it doesnt look like a Genesis or Tangent model. Peoples words say one thing, but what speaks to the industry is money, and the money trail says they want the details, want the sound, want the ditch lights, want the.... The price of the hobby is what people make it upon themselves. The options are out there for brand new rolling stock under 20, new locomotives with dcc under 100, all of this is already available and people turn up their noses to it.

You have hit the nail on the head here... How to attract new modellers when we used to save 4 weeks pocket money for a coach, the kids now cannot possible save enough - there are so many other distractions!!! Parents and grand parents may have more 'free' cash but kids don't have enough to buy trains. One easy way to save cost is to ignore sound fitted trains. They are hugely expensive and they sound awful! You don't just hear a train, you feel it. 200+tons of loco has a presence that a 1.5in speaker can never replicate, so why spend $100+ extra to be disappointed? Glad I found you channel...

From my beginning in the hobby in l983 until quite recently, my primary focus has always been repairing stuff i found in the boxes under the tables at train shows. THEY are the salvation of the hobby. As a kid I had Lionel 027 but when my son was the same age, Lionel was about as affordable to me--with an IVY league degree--as an Audi. My main complaint would be the shoddy functioning design of the cheapo introductory kits,, Parents totally give up on the whole electric train idea if they don't discover the 8-wheel pickup and flywheel inertia that old Athearn gave us. One parent told me "I threw it out. All it did was make them cry.

@RailRide

2 жыл бұрын

Repairing HO stuff found in the "used box" is basically the entire premise behind SMT Mainline's channel :D. Although I'm too heavily invested in O Gauge to even think of adopting HO, I still find it entertaining watching him resurrect old starter-set locomotives sourced from the 'miscellaneous' bins at various hobby shops.

As for affordable equipment, I would add to your list "dummy" B units for the F and E locomotives - I myself don't need my B units to be powered, which drives the price up. Make it an option for those who want or need them powered. As for my coffee, today, it's just Folgers Half-Caf, 2 sugars and oat milk. My favorite coffee is Deans Beans roasters in Orange, Massachusetts, which I have been drinking since the mid-90s! Love the videos and your willingness to video your process and thoughts!

Hey Jimmy, excellent subject… as for myself, I purchased 1 Bachman starter set and took a ride on the used marketplace railroad… I have purchased a few new locomotives and I have dependable supplier of dc or dcc used locomotives and I also purchased about 40 or so cars of rolling stock in the OfferUp/Craigslist sites. Not to mention HUNDREDS of pieces of track. So I’m pretty well stocked up for now and if I want some sound… I just turn on the clothes dryer ( because I’m in the garage) … it sounds real to me:-) last but not least cafeteria coffee and extra grounds 🚂 …RIP Dave Gus it was great running railroads with you.

I think joining a modular railroad club helps lower the cost of entry. They usually already have a DCC system they use. If you're doing t-trak then you only have to build 1x1 square to get started. Then you can focus more on getting a good first loco and some rolling stock. You should also go to train shows and swap meets to find deals on used rolling stock. If you go to these shows you can find cheap cars that have the older horn hook or rapido couplers and convert them to knuckle couplers to save money. I also used to see more car kits where you saved a little bit of money by doing the final assembly yourself. In n-scale I used to buy lots of roundhouse car kits for cheap this way.

@raymondleggs5508

2 жыл бұрын

knuckle couplers in anything under HO scale is approaching too little IMO. Imagine knuckles in Z scale or worse T!

@BattleshipOrion

2 жыл бұрын

Clubs help, but at the cost of imagination. Everything else is on par.with my argument against prices being as high as they are.

I started in the hobby because my wife suggested I get a hobby to fill some time. I started out with a starter Bachmann DCC set then decided if I was going to do it I just needed to jump in. I have a 12'x4' N scale layout that has three main lines, 10 locos, 100 pieces of rolling stock and have fully landscaped and completed the layout. I've put over $10k into the layout and as everyone knows, it's never done! I'm now looking to add signaling and other details as well as possibly adding another section of the same size. I'm budgeting $5,000 since I have learned a lot about where to get good used products or lower priced new products. This certainly isn't a hobby for someone with limited funds if they are looking to build a decent size layout.

I keep costs down by purchasing older kits. I consider myself a modeller first and a model railroader 2nd. I don't obsess with prototypical correctness, rather the overall appearance. I enjoy building and kit bashing. I think many younger folks in the hobby miss a lot with the current availability to just purchase RTR and set it on the layout.

it's ridiculous that they want us to spend $50 for a single car that, honestly, really isn't anything special... modeling isn't supposed to be a game of who can spend the most money, it's about stretching what you've got into something that you can enjoy, show your talent and skills, and learn from, by doing it yourself. $50 for a single car makes a 10-car train $500!!! I get that everyone is into the hobby for a different reason and "expensive" is all relative, and of course inflation factors in, but it just seems insane to me that it's come to this, especially since this hobby was, literally, built on building.

@stewarttrains98

2 жыл бұрын

A 1/3 of the people in the hobby really know how to "model". By that I'm talking about doing good job of kit bash, scratch building, detailing rolling stock and structures. Most everyone else just basically builds stuff as is with minimal effort put into it. As for as cost, I do try to make it affordable as possible. I try to buy stuff on sale, clearance and at shows.

Hey Jimmy: when one takes into account that “starting” for many of us happened in the ‘60s and ‘70s. My buying power followed my minimum wage paycheck starting at $1.90/hr. A five-fold increase has happened since. My Bachman trains (a set plus extra cars and locos) was wonderfully done, and had RP-25 wheels, brass rails, etc. The “cheap” AHM or Tyco cars could be had for $1 or $2. The had the huge flanges, talgo truck-mounted Horn-hook couplers, and variable quality. But the “low end” is relatively speaking, about as affordable now as it was then. Brass locos of the ‘70s were simply not affordable. Athearn blue box were the go-to “good” stuff and I think I paid $5 a car and $25 a loco. I bought one of the new, good Atlas SD-40s at $45, and that was big $$$. Of course, the PFM platform was the only sound alternative and it was never affordable. And the kind of computer-aided control we have was a Science Fiction story. Pete’s Costa Rica, with double real cream this morning. Thanks!

been thinking about getting into dcc and this video helped!!

As someone new getting into this hobby, it is a bit overwhelming on what you get for X amount. The information that you find is also a bit of hassle to understand. That's one of the many reasons I have really started watching you, and not by any means am trying to bring you down, but the way you explain things is dumbed down to a newbies level and I appreciate that. Open and honest, and great explanations on stuff. Keep up the AMAZING work!!! Also, drinking Black Rifle Coffee Company Five Alarm, 3 sugar and 2 creams.

Great video! I find that intermodal equipment seems very expensive. Like a 5 unit well car set is $100 and then if you want containers for that, it's another $100. So you end up spending $200 on just 5 cars.

The thing that gets me is this. Some of the molds they use have paid for them selves over and over again. But are still pulling a equal price as the new molds.

Great video: This should help a lot of people. I started with a KATO set that was $269. DC loco, controller, 6 cars of mix freight & track.

Excellent video! Don’t forget Model Power. They sell some pretty decent, not as detailed, but still nice rolling stock at a very affordable price. I’ve seen them as low as $6 or $7, but usually in the $10 range. I happen to have an MRC Tech 6. The only downfall I’ve experienced with the unit, is that you can’t double head engines in opposite directions. They try to pull each other in the opposite direction. Don’t know if there’s a fix for that, if you know if one let me know, please. lol. I really enjoy watching your channel and I’m also a big coffee connoisseur! Happy model railroading!

In the old days we use to scratch build and make our own things and they were actually very detailed and nice. You can even roll your own DCC but everyone just wants instant gratification and they don't want to put the time in and learn the skills. Sure there are some things that you will have to or should buy but the lion share can be DIYdc, track, turn outs, rolling stock, buildings and even things like DCC base station and power supplies.

This is mind-blowing content. I am comprehensively illiterate but you explain all the technical stuff so that it makes sense.

I think the key is to understand that you don't need a ton of locomotives or a whole yard of rolling stock to start off with. One nice sound equipped locomotive, a DCC system, and a small shelf layout is a great way to start without spending a fortune. Trying to make everything slightly cheaper doesn't really accomplish much, and for the DCC system, DCC++EX already offers a much cheaper system. For an out of the box system, the Digitrax Zephyr and Digikeijs DR5000 are both an amazing value.

Thank you so much for raising this issue. It is far worse in the UK. Not surprisingly, the hobby is declining and fewer clubs are now left.

Great video, agree with everything you said. To encourage younger people to the hobby on a budget or even someone with a small family and a mortgage that doesn’t have loads of cash to splash.

Hi Jimmy. Happy New Year, by the way. I think you are pretty much spot on. The hobby IS expensive, but I think manufacturers and suppliers are rather blinkered in these cash-strapped times. In the UK we have OO gauge (scale), which is the nearest we have to HO scale (we DO import HO scale items). One of our major manufacturers is Hornby and they have recently announced their 2022 range and they are just trying to price themselves out of the market, or they're just testing their loyal customers who constantly buy their models (they are by no means perfect for the high price they charge!). This is no way to entice new modellers into the hobby.

@melkitson

2 жыл бұрын

Hornby have been ripping off the market for as long as I have been alive.(68years) They have the market in the UK but they need to beware of the cheaper Chinese imports.

5:59 Oh! You’re an App State guy? Both of my parents were as well! I make many a visit to Boone on a frequent basis. Also, excellent video! I model in O Gauge, which has been making strides in recent years to make command control easy and affordable. (However, with the size of the trains, a new locomotive can run you at least $200. There are very few models you can find cheap.) As for coffee, I don’t drink a lot of coffee, but when I do, I’ll drink good ol’ Moravian Lovefeast Coffee. There’s plenty of cream and sugar in that!

DCC accessibility is huge. As a kid, I always wanted to get into DCC, but all I could do was ask for the Bachman DCC playset and hope that my parents would spend $330. Since they never did, I drifted away from the hobby, and now I'm not sure I will ever get back into it.

You bring up a lot of valid points. I just started dusting off a number of my older pieces I played with as a kid some 40 years ago. I built a very small almost 4x4 size test track layout to get the powered stuff working again. Yes looking at the cost of newer loco's is to me really expensive nowadays and don't have the funds for those new stock. But what I have done is visit one of the local hobby stores in the city and go way back into a back room and buy some older stock pre-DCC. There are a number of older units, and rolling stock and tracks in the bins at a very cheap price with the better units going for up to $20 There are some for a few more dollars (maybe around $100) for other units with DCC as used pieces Heck I even found one of the rare 0-4-0 switchers, the same one I played with as a kid who would run it really fast until it hit a curve and roll off the track and sometimes on to the floor. Yes they have cosmetic damage here and there and some sold as is for parts. Others you can find on Ebay and maybe get lucky with a fairly cheap price. As you mentioned Scale trains has reasonable stuff too. I even pre-ordered a reefer car with sound and 6 moths later still waiting for them to be sold out so they can build them and I get mine If you do go after the cheaper stock, you will find the build quality suffers a bit I would like to have is DCC as the very basic starter as you mentioned and convert the older stock to DCC But a DCC is up there in price range for me and have not really looked yet as a cheaper version and to get the DCC chips installed into older stock (which can be done) The only other thing I can think off is buying one of those sets that has all of that in a kit and start from there, but maybe $200 or more depending on whats in it. Like the old saying is , it aint going to be cheap no matter what you do. For sure I will be taking my time to see what I can come up with and hopefully with the eventual goal is get DCC at least the basic set up is enough for me At least this is where I stand with where I am at with my HO Scale trains

I met a guy at my local railroad shop he said he has already spent thousands on a dozen engines and hundreds of cars and he still doesn't have a track set up. I started dc and now have dcc dropped in my own decoders and bought a few dcc sound equipped.

The affordability crisis is even more present in O scale. I am 19 y/o and I got into trains by running them with my grandfather’s and fortunately had a head start that way. I cannot realistically afford any new engine that Lionel or others put out especially steam locomotives. The prices are nearly $1200 for a nice pacific and if you want articulated loco you’re gonna pay nearly $2000. The thing is though they have not released a new product in years though, its all reruns and they keep getting more expensive each time, even 1 catalog to the next. The cars continue to get more expensive as well and a mold that was built in the 90s is still commanding a near $90 per car price. Ive had to resort to bargain hunting on Craigslist extensively to even begin to find affordable trains. Another thing that bugs me is the complete lack of modern models for O, this isn’t as present in other scales but its sad that we cannot get new locos at all. The most recent diesel are from the mid 2000s and the most recent electric is the Acela set. Its like nothing happened in the past 22 years to these companies. Mini rant over

@joewoodchuck3824

2 жыл бұрын

Companies concentrate on what sells. HO and then N are where it's at in popularity.

A couple of my biggest issues with the model train industry is like you said "price" prices just keep going up and up and good locomotives are roughly $100.00 bucks, may not sound like a lot to some but if your a kid starting out in the hobby it can quickly become unaffordable very quickly and they may leave the hobby and play video games, you can swap them and or trade them for new or used games. I started in the hobby around 50 years ago with a Lionel set for Christmas and today I won't give you a plug nickel for that cheap chinese lionel junk, I have bought a few pieces but to me they are junk and not worth the money especially when it comes to repairing them. Lets leave it at that. As for HO which is what I do now, thank God I have been collecting parts and pieces for 45 years or so, but track has gotten out of this world expensive, switches are a bit pricey so I suggest you buy the good ones for only a couple bucks more (like Pico and a couple others) stay away from Atlas they are to expensive for what you get and I have a lot of derailments going over them, so many have been replaced with Pico, few to no issues with them. I don't use DCC, I have to many locomotives to convert and my layout is designed for straight DC. Biggest issue I have with that is the lack of power in the transformers on the market, In an old MRC add they say their power packs can run 15 locomotives, well, they might at a whopping scale 1mph, but I doubt that, so no more MRC power packs for me. I literally have had to build a power supply for my whole layout using a 30 amp 16 volt supply ( fused at 5 amps per main line ) ( I'm not that dumb ) I've built my own hand held controllers that will handle the power, but it sure would be nice if someone made power supply's with at least 5 amps at 16 to maybe 18 volts for those of us who like to run big trains with all powered locomotives. Last for now is the RP25 wheel flange. While prototypical it's fairly useless if you ask me, there's not enough weight in the cars to hold them to the track and the wheels fill up with crud and you lose 1/2 the flange and then the derailments start. So when I replace wheels usually with Kadee wheel sets I will take them apart and chuck them up in my lathe and make the flange deeper, barely noticeable to the naked eye but they run so much better. Well, I'm done ranting for now. Nice video by the way, TY.

Hi Jimmy, thanks for all your efforts. I have recently decided to start in the hobby at the age of 70. My concern with expense is the exchange rate between Australia and the USA plus postage. This can actually double the price of some stock for us down here. I am gradually easing in buying a few items and will look at bulk purchases to save on postage if possible. The hard part is finding suitable N scale loco's for a logging & coal operation in the late 30's - early 40's. Still, all part of the fun I guess. Keep up the good work.(I drink Moccona #8 coffee) Cheers, Andy

@johnniejackson3154

2 жыл бұрын

What scale should I buy if I'm going off of a 1:24 scale dollhouse?

A good place to go is Train Shows/swap meets, buyer beware on locomotives though! 🚂 Daylight Dave!! 😜🤪🤗

Great video. Agree with your what you had to say about the pricing and cost of products today against say 10 years ago. You get what you pay for.

Ding ding! I'm a tram and I approve this video! Great footage!!

As per scale trains they say that the operator series is the worst seller and it might go away in favor of the rivet counter only. Not any profit in the budget models.

When I younger and was into N Gauge trains which I absolutely loved I could go to my local Hobby Shop or other local Hobby Shops in the area and pick up everything that I would need. I could browse, pick up and see what I was buying. Today, Hobby Shops are pretty much a thing of the past. Now, of course, everything is online and I would say that trying to start out is even harder.

@kents.2866

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah 2020-2022 was an awful time to get back into Model railroading. Everything is backordered.

Hey jimmy,I agree and sets or budget buys can help. The cost of manufacturing and materials are sky rocketing and we pay for it in the end. I prefer train shows and ebay. I just recently picked up 2 kato sd70ace's for $100 and 18 atlas frieght cars for $25. Keep pushing forward my friend. Bogota sunrise and 5 creamers😁😁

I am happy that rivet counter and genesis and rapido and other super-detailed equipment is available for those who want it, but I had major sticker shock coming from model railroading in the late 1980s as a kid, when $80 bought a rather nice Athearn blue box or Atlas loco (DC) with reasonable detail and good quality, into recently looking back into it and finding prices of $200+ for similar units, and a hundred more for DCC. And yeah, fairly certain I used to get Athearn and Con-Cor ready to run cars for sub-$20.

This was really a great post. Modeling in an expensive hobby. Sad, because it keeps many of us sane.

@tczephyr3665

2 жыл бұрын

It does and is way cheaper than seeking professional help 🙂

I Like that you try to keep things simple

Was thinking the same thing for a while. We went from generic "close enough for no railroad" mass-marketed kits for the major railroads to "detailed for specific railroad" limited-run R-T-R for obscure lines (that has to be a money hole for manufacturers). Kits went from shake-the-box, a couple screws and it rolls to my-God-I've-lost-my-will-to-live-gluing-on-all-these-grab-irons, half-finished sitting on a closet shelf. Early on, manufacturers went with *color* to drive sales, so most old MoPac (my preferred prototype) boxcars issued in the 50s-70s you see are the blue and grey merchandise cars. Well, once you get into exploring prototype operations (or just read the note on the car itself), you find those boxcars rarely left MoPac rails. TOFC was usually home-road as well. So having NKP, SF, SP, UP, NYC, Pennsy, and B&O TOFC may look nice on a layout, it wasn't anything real railroads did -- especially since early TOFC terminals had proprietary systems. Once a beginner moves from a circle of shiny cars to selecting a prototype road and an era, that is when the hobby gets "expensive." They have to make "re-purchases" to replace what doesn't fit. And then they have to make "specific purchases" in limited run format for what does fit. As a baseline, manufacturers should offer: ° DC locomotives that are DCC ready; ° Locomotives and rolling stock that are painted and lettered but un-numbered. Include a dry transfer sheet of numbers a purchaser can add (without needing MicroSet or SolvaSet to look good). And which a subsequent purchaser (used on eBay or a train show) can alter or remove without stripping the car. This, I think, would drive repeat sales; ° Kits that are detailed but don't require advanced skills to complete. Yes, we need a few "hero" cars in our operations trains. But we can get by with less detailed cars in our staging yard-to-staging yard run-through trains; ° Clearly marked "era references" on the box (Example: NYC Century Green Boxcar. Number Series ###### - ######. New/Rbt 1958. In service 1958 - 1970s). Because maybe I like the way it looks. Oh, look, colorful! But I don't know anything about the NYC; ° STAY AWAY FROM MASS PRODUCING "ONE-OFs." Searching eBay, it's amazing how many HERBIE safety cars and the grey DF cars pop up for MP. There was only one of each. Apparently every MP modeler was going to buy them just because they said MP on them (I own neither just because of the annoyance factor). Or other modelers would buy them for their uniqueness. Whatever the reasoning, it clearly isn't going to drive repeat sales; ° Stick with basic railroad color dip job paint schemes on undecorated rolling stock. Walthers put out an NW2 a while back that they released in obscure road names and then unlettered but painted in oddball paint colors/schemes. I was like.... You couldn't make one in just black like 90% of railroad switchers were? Anyway, those are my rambling thoughts on how manufacturers could drive up their sales and drive down our costs.

Hi Jimmy. For me the entry point is DCC with good sound. It really changed the hobby for me. If I were king, I would drop DC only entirely and let DCC ( that can run on DC ) be the entry level. DCC ready locos already have a pc board so adding the parts to support basic DCC would be well under a dollar in cost. So the base price could be $80 instead of $79. I think the real profit makers are the sound decoder guys. Their "tooling" is firmware and it is expensive to develop but they don't have to make new firmware all that often. So their "tooling" cost is amortized over much more than a single logo production run. Bet they pay under $5 per decoder for parts and PCB assembly. Don't know what the Loco manufacturers pay for a decoder but I pay more to buy DC and upgrade than to buy a sound equipped loco in the first place. I am really impressed with the latest Atlas GE-Dash8... I got two for $159 each. Great detail and working ditch lights.

@raymondleggs5508

2 жыл бұрын

I'll stick with DC because locomotives old

Great video you are right on for having mixed car set. I'm new to this 4months in. I would like to see your opinion on cost and difference's in proto, Broadway limited,kato or your top 10 engines to buy weather be diesel or steam. I decided to go with Athearn and Proto I've been watching diff videos and I'm thinking of selling my promontory version of the Big Boy and buying a Broadway limited. What is your opinion on the top of the line (best) and the bottom of the line (worst) I know there's a lot but you can choose which to answer.Trains are like cell phones to freezing many of them when it comes in DCC I have FCC and DC. You could make a mini series of what a beginner goes through before he buys his/ her first Engine. Thank you Great video.

KZread must have suggested this to me as there have been a few videos on the prices of UK model railways recently. I think on balance you are still lucky over there with your budget offerings. Those multipacks of wagons looks especially good value

PWRS has plenty of in stock older locos (dc) sub $100. My local hobby shop is always getting good quality used stock in as well. Modelling a single track branch line can save money on materials for the table by using a narrow shelf. A simple switchback at one end can return the line on a different elevation and both ends of the point to point end up at the same end of the layout. When I reclaim the spare bedroom I will be looking at this sort of layout modelling CP Havelock sub from Peterborough to Havelock, and the Nephton sub running from Havelock. It can be run easily on DC and I have a Kato soundbox I can use with the system.

Keep in mind that Model Railroading isn't alone in this regard! It's certainly not the only "complex" hobby which suffers from not only a high cost of accessibility, but also a high cost of continued engagement. Two of my other hobbies, Radio Controlled airplanes and "hobby" boardgaming take just as much as a percentage, out of my leisure budget. I mean, the cost of a DCC system is no different than a decent radio system for RC flying. The cost of locomotive is usually cheaper than the cost of a simple airplane. And the cost of several pieces of rolling stock and track is on par with the cost of all the other components required to fly RC aircraft. And for boardgaming... true... many good boardgames can be purchased for $50 - $60. But there are also MANY great boardgames which start at $100 and go up from there. So a gamer with a modest collection of let's say, only 10-20 boardgames will have put out the same money for a DCC system, track, and a good-sized train set with extra rolling stock. And likely more! And of course, there are other hobbies with similar cost barriers. So Model Railroading isn't alone.

@henryostman5740

2 жыл бұрын

Quite bitchin' about parts for model planes. I ditched the model part for a real one. Price out some new radio's for a Cessna. Many of them cost more than the plane did new.

@rustymustard7798

2 жыл бұрын

Lol, RC flying costs pennies on the entry level compared to trains. I mean you could spend MILLIONS on 1/3 scale turbine jets, but at the same time the barrier to entry is so low that you can start for way less than the cheapest locomotive he mentioned. A $20 transmitter isn't 'nice', but they work and the rest of the stuff for a variety of builds build will cost half that much for a glider, or the same for power.

I am a hobby fanatic all my life. I am 62. Real Classic Cars - Trains N and HO - Slot Cars HO and 1/32 - Models - Radio Control Boats - Planes. EVERY HOBBY starts out small and eventually BALOONS into HUGE dollars. Thousands over the years to many thousands. Real Classic Cars are insanely expensive to buy and if you need to bring them to a shop. It ends up being a complete life time of ALWAYS wanting something else. It is as bad as being on drugs or alcohol without the health ramifications. I recommend not getting involved with hobbies at all.

An inexpensive option is to go virtual, with a train sim; there are lots of these and they do let people get into the hobby in a simulated virtual fashion for not much money at all, so it is in no way a hobby which is completely closed off to those with limited finances providing they have a computer or a mobile device. Train sims can be useful for planning a physical layout too of course, but they are something one can enjoy just for what they are with little in the way of scope limitation. Now granted, they do not give you the basic visceral feeling of having something in your hand which physical railroad modeling offers, or making things with actual glue, paint and craft materials which is a big part of railroad models for many people, but you can 3D model these things virtually if you have the inclination, and as noted, it does supplant that 'hands-on' disadvantage with many other plus points, not least of which is cost, however, of more benefit than this is the fact that one is in no way limited by size for a layout - you can build or buy a layout the size of the real thing if you like with literally hundreds of miles of track if you want to - and then you can actually 'sit in' the locomotive and drive it from that viewpoint if you wish, so in this sense it is more realistic than a physical scale model railroad and offers something a physical model railroad cannot. Back with physical model railroads, another problem which you did not touch on is that generally speaking, the smaller you go in scale, the more expensive it tends to get, even though it does allow one to go for more prototypical layouts within a finite space. I found this out fairly recently when I got to building a Z scale layout; if you think HO scale models and track are pricey, have a look at what some of that Z scale stuff costs - I think my Z scale layout track alone was getting into the several hundred quid mark purely because of the cost of turnouts since it has thirteen of the things on it, and their small size means they are more difficult to manufacture of course, with a price commensurate with that production difficulty. What can mitigate that to some degree is things like ebay, where if you keep an eye open you can find things at more amenable pricing, but to get even a reasonably decent sized freight train in Z scale is not something you can expect to do for anything less than several hundred notes. What always helps of course, as with any hobby really when it comes to reducing the cost of it, is if one is good at making things, which fortunately I am so this is something I do and enjoy. But since this is something which certainly can help people to reduce costs it is why, if this is a mission you care to champion in the hopes of making things less expensive to get into, it would be good to do videos about how one can make a lot of stuff from basic crafting materials and ingenuity, rather than simply buying model kits. An example of this would be printing model fascias on a basic PC printer paper, then sticking these to simple card or balsa boxes and embellishing them with a few glued on bits cut from more card or balsa. Salvaged clear packaging glued on the inside of such creations can mean you are able to glaze such models for next to nothing and a lot of the time these will be as good, if not better than any kit one might purchase. It won't make rolling stock and track cheaper, but it will mean that money can go on those rather than purchasing a ton of model kits. With regard to DCC being expensive, whilst that is true and DCC is nice, it's not compulsory, and it is as well to remember that you can have a nice model layout which uses more basic control. After all, at one point a few years ago, none of us had any DCC control and it didn't stop us from enjoying things, so this too is something you might have cause to champion for those looking at getting into things on a budget, because there is the argument that with a small basic layout of perhaps a small railroad or branch line operation, it's actually more realistic to not have dozens of trains whizzing about all over the place. Yes we all like having tons of locos and rolling stock, but it isn't necessary to still have fun; just a simple oval with a siding to a small shunting yard and an industry for it to serve - even an imagined one off through some tunnel somewhere - is all that is necessary for a layout one can enjoy with nothing more than one or two locomotives and a few box cars, and that shouldn't cost anyone too much to piece together.

Great video man thank you very much

This is very helpful video,I'm leaving O gauge for H/O due to the affordability. Plus H/O allows more in less of a space. H/O is not too small and not to large. Bonus is getting rid of the 3rd rail.

I know it's not for everyone, but I have been buying N scale DC locos and for Christmas I bought 5 Digi decoders without sound (I hate sound, sorry guys). I live in Canada and the biggest cost is tariffs and exchange in the dollar value. 25 to 30% exchange on the dollar 15 to 20% tariff it adds up. Sometimes I order direct from Japan on the Kato products. I have not been very lucky buying used unless it's scenery. I started out 3D printing buildings but have been modelling with real wood lately. Most of those building materials were bought at Dollar Stores It's very satisfying. 3D printing windows and doors in resin to add to the structures. Wish I could afford a laser cutter. Yes something needs to change. Thanks for the video, it needed to be said!

One thing to point out about pricing is your showing these prices at large retailers that can discount down to 20% or more. There are a lot of small local hobby shops that can't compete on the pricing so i would suggest telling us the msrp price but mention that those items can be found cheaper if you shop around, etc. Overall, great video, I would love to see the car packs too :)

To save on costs I try to recycle what i can from old layouts. I also look for deals on ebay, websites, and hobby shops. Maybe this year I will get the mrc tech 6 since I have a fleet of old DC locomotives and DCC ready locomotives to help plan for the future.

I think one way to market towards people on a budget would be to develop a product line that is centered around what kind of model railroading a person wants to do and expanding on it. You have three main categories: continuous running, prototypical operation, and a hybrid of the two. From that you create sets of locomotives, rolling stock, structures, track packs with plans, guides to operation, historical information, and expansion sets that are focused on all that but also take space, era, locale, and budget into consideration. The idea is to keep all purchases relevant to what the modeler wants without overwhelming them, as well as guiding them into good practices and habits that will save them money and provide variety relevant to what they are modeling. I've seen a lot of people invest in the hobby without a clear idea or method to get what they want, and it ends up being expensive with a lot of extra stuff they don't use or end up selling later when they finally do figure things out, and you never get retail price when you resell. I think getting away from what you typically see in trainsets (locomotive with a mixed lot of cars and a loop of track) and focusing more on operation (i.e. a set with a mainline locomotive AND a switcher, cars that are specific to certain industries, a layout with a couple spurs, a booklet of relevant historical/operational information on everything included in the set, and even some tools) could do a lot to make sure people make better use of the money they have.

I got away from the hobby for about 20 years... I am SHOCKED at the price of DCC. WTH... I thought it was super cool as a kid to learn about electricity (albeit DC) and SPDT switches, etc. I saw many layouts that ran just fine pre-DCC. I don't get it. $300 locomotives?? Are you kidding me?

@Hans-gb4mv

2 жыл бұрын

Don't forget, life has gotten more expensive and we make more money. 300USD today was only 200USD 20 years ago.

@erikhilsinger9421

2 жыл бұрын

You can still find a cheap path but it takes work. Sound decoders from XL on eeeeekbay, all the old kits are floating around undone by someone at a show or online. The crazy thing is buying an MDC kit that comes with NWSL gear kits, can motor, etc. that somebody never got around to building. Newest and best? maybe not, but old reliable is still out there, sometimes waiting to be loved.

On December 26th, K-Mart, Gold Circle, Clarkins and others would put their HO stock on sale. I would buy rolling stock at .99 cents . Locomotives started at $5.00. Track and accessories were also cheap. Christmas money well spent . That was the early seventies. Still have all the stuff I purchased.

I totally agree. What I think is the most unreasonably expensive is track here in australia.

I recently just got into the hobby as a north American living in Germany. I'd love DCC start sets that include the locomotive, base station, some rolling stock, but an option without track so I can buy my own track separate but still get all the other bits I needed. I also find it crazy how inexpensive north American trains are, you are looking at 200euro and up for a locomotive with a decoder in it, and you are getting much less detailed and prototypical trains. They sell a specific locomotive and all of them have the exact same number and there are zero customization options. The hobby here is less into that sort of realism/prototypical building then compared to north America. Base stations are 200+ euro basically. I'd love to see more prototypical options in the European market, and I'd love to see the prices come down a lot.

@turboseize

2 жыл бұрын

@Da Bolaños But Märklin track is ugly...

@melkitson

2 жыл бұрын

Fleischman are doing great, good value starter sets in Germany which ship throughout Europe. Don't need the track, Bin it. You still get good value for money.

@dda40x

2 жыл бұрын

To some degree it's different priorities. There are not a lot of consists here, so few german model railroaders will ever have more than one of the same type of locomotive, and it's okay that it's only sold with one number. But yeah, the prices are insane.

Whatever you do, don't look at speciality railways like Queensland Rail. Very low production, and massively expensive. Then again, OO9 British industrial tramways are often quite established in modelling, and you can make cheaper steam if the tramway ran alongside roads a lot; to avoid disturbing animals, steam locos had covers over their final drives, so there could be anything under there. Even a Kato N tram chassis. Also, papercraft will solve a lot of your scenery issues, assuming you don't go overboard and represent corrugated sheet with printed paper etc. Moccona instant, white.

It's great to here someone interested in the high cost of the hobby. You have to keep your eyes wide open to get good deals and better than golf.

I got back in to my train collection I thought I lost every thing but when we moved I found what was left . When I got in to the hobby you could by car kits and put them to gather for I it was a lot of fun . There are hobby shop's on line that seal good price DC Locomotive new . I known dcc is the way to go but it is the price . What type of track bed should you use I got foam to start with mostly do to the price cork cost so much money I heard cork rots out ? The nests hobby shop is over 1 hour one way plus I live on a fixed income

I’ve been surprised (read: caught out) by manufacturers releasing non-DCC upgradable locos. In my example, the mfr simultaneously released a DC version and a DCC version in N scale. Little did I realise they were significantly different internally. From a technical standpoint that’s mad - the chassis was different, the wiring was quite different, and a reasonable amount of work was required to add a decoder. Instead of making a DCC ready loco with either a decoder or a DC plug? Madness.

A N scale Kato loco would cost $35 in 1985. Inflation calculators put that at $79 in todays dollars, so Kato is matching inflation. The increase in price beyond inflation comes from extra costs of finer details, more lighting (ditch lights), DCC and sound. Premium prices are charged for a premium product. Where the price increases are a bit unjustified is in rolling stock. Low and mid range rolling stock, without any increase in detail, have increased twice as fast as locomotives. One of the more frustrating changes is the short or limited run of models. Instead of a model coming to market and being available indefinitely the newer way, with limited supply increases prices as the cost or research, molding, etc is carried over a much smaller number of models, and as you say, by the time a consumer finds out about it, it's already sold out. I think even the current system may be outdated in 10 years. With 3d printing models could be printed to order, the only problem would be the painting of the model would still have to be done by a worker, but I can see robotic painters in the future, which would make producing models one at a time price effective for the consumer and with savings in warehousing and labor for the companies, the new way forward for them.

I really like the idea of the dcc started set for $200. Three pieces of rolling stock isn’t a problem for me because I used to model n scale years ago, so if there was a dcc set, with everything you said for that price point, that might get me to buy it, even if it were to just play with it and not necessarily build a layout. But also it seems totally doable as an intro for someone just getting into the hobby. Great ideas. 👍

@VestedUTuber

Жыл бұрын

Bachmann actually does this with their Digital Commander set and their Sound Value sets. However... they're stupid expensive and all you get is an EZCommand unit. Which I guess is better than nothing, but still... for $500 I expect at least a Zephyr Extra in the box.

At least we're lucky to obtain kits my grandfather in the mid 1940s had to custom make his buildings and they're in phenomenal shape

Hi Jimmy! Drinking a home-made Tim's Double-double (since we can't go there). I find myself agreeing with many of the things you say. Some "possible solutions" are not available where I'm at - train shows, local hobby shops, and so on. As to MSRP costs, I'll just mention that prices are higher elsewhere, which also does not help. I have been hoping for the thick end of 2 years to find some route to get back into model railroading, I have not found one, cost being 90% of the reason. I know I'm not alone in that, which is a sad thing in some ways. There is much in the hobby that can be fascinating for many folks, but there are some basic items that a model railroad layout needs - track and rolling stock, for example. Using really "old-school" techniques, I can fudge up some believable scenery at relatively low cost. It may be that going back to the building and "kit-bashing" methods of making rolling stock and even track will likewise be needed. The result may not be a true-to-scale "rivet counter's dream" but may work, after a fashion. We'll see. There are many comments already about the price of DCC equipped locomotives not being an issue. Well, sorry boys and girls, but for many it is an issue. As to injection-molded or die-cast plastic freight car bodies, some are very good, but some are things for which the tooling was paid for 30 years ago (others have mentioned that the same is true in the UK). Why such an object should cost $40-$60 each is a mystery - many of these are not highly detailed or even true-to-prototype products. The industry seems focused on oohing and aahing about expensive models. Perhaps that's what the market is calling for? I do wonder about that.

There are some great bargains to be had by buying from eBay or other second hand sites. You can often get mint condition DCC with sound locos for very attractive prices. I’ve bought a number of very nice locomotives and rolling stock at a fraction of the cost of new equipment.

I’m retired and watch my spending. Have been able to find some good used items on eBay. Don’t mind if if my equipment is used just mind if it doesn’t run right. I’ve put together a DCC++ system so I’m also in to the control side for a very low cost.

Jimmy, that is the best and most sensible video you have ever made I think. Will the manufacturers listen to you? Of course not. Why be sensible when you are making money. The next step would be to manufacture base loco kits with 3D printable plans for the bodywork. Set standards so that all manufacturers make compatible motors etc. Much like VHS and beta in the old days. Notice also needs to be taken of the difference in scales between American and rest of the world. 1:148 and 1:160. Some of the prices you are quoting sound exciting to me but add shipping and import charges and they become unrealistic to European buyers. Please keep pushing this issue with everyone you deal with. Let the customer (consumer) be right for a change. If prices were lower more people might be interested thus leading to more sales and spreading the cost of the prototype moulds.

As long as the current manufacturers keep up their current business preorder and just-in-time manufacturing model, there really isn't a solution within the existing market. They don't care about sales volumes anymore, they've learned they can make more money by producing less, charging more, and focusing solely on the high wealth bracket demographic. So what do you do? You force the market to change, and that's going to take a new manufacturer with a new way of doing things that can undercut the market. One idea I've had was to mass-produce common parts only, and then take advantage of resin 3D printing to make the model-specific detail parts to order. You save money because you don't have to machine dies and molds for every single variant of a model, in exchange for having a bit of lead time on each order. And then the financial savings can be passed down to the customer. No need to trick customers into basically filling out an order quota under the guise of "preordering" only to then have them wait for years if the model is anything other than a Big Boy, GS4, F7 or other "celebrity" locomotive with a high-popularity roadname. Taken to an extreme, you can design a universal chassis for a particular type of locomotive, just keep making a bunch of those, and then finish each locomotive to order. And it would still be cheaper than the current model, because your overhead is that much lower since, again, you don't have to make molds for everything. The electronics may be a part of it, but they're not the only factor or even the main factor.

I agree with so much of this in theory but in reality this is very hard to achieve. I am an n-scaler so I can speak on that and there are a FEW manufacturers who rule that scale, Kato, Bachmann, Atlas, Walthers and maybe Con-Cor for steam/passenger. I also am in NJ so I have folks in my former club who work for some manufacturers of model railroad equipment and have some insight into this and I think although it'd be great for the manufacturers to release the sub $200 DCC set it is near impossible. Bachmann is the only one who may come close, but who here wants a DCC set for under $200 with 40 year old molds of ONLY of F-units or early geeps and 40 foot boxcars if they model the modern era? Plastic or more precise PVC is a petroleum based by-product, so goes the price of petroleum, so goes the price of plastic. Also to CREATE a new mold now by either re-engineering an old mold or starting from scratch is a HUGE undertaking with a ton of money to be thrown at it and there is no guarantee it'll sell well. Want to know why stuff is on the books for what seems like decades? That's why. Don't get me going on transporting and logistics on distribution either, not to mention the costs of prepping and painting/lettering multiple road names and numbers either. But what about 3d printing? Maybe in 10 years the costs and precision in which items can be 3d printed can match the costs now of mass manufactured items, but not today. Or do you folks want a huge company manufacturing cheap items like Tyco in the 60-80's did? Yeah inexpensive but it ran like crap. I'd rather buy fewer items of quality than more garbage. If prices get you down, check your local store for 2nd hand stuff and hit train shows. Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, eBay, etc.

The thing I have issue with about getting into this hobby is not the expense of the models and equipment.... I don't have space in my house at present for a layout and a bigger house is not in the cards lol.

Great comments, Jimmy. In my (not so) humble opinion, I don't think the cost of getting into model railroading is excessive, not when compared to other hobbies. Some thoughts on how to make it less expensive: 1) Join a local club - you can run club trains, participate in operating sessions, or run your own trains on the club layout. Plus you will learn a hell of a lot, make new friends... 2) Train shows. Sure, a lot of the stuff on offer is junk (side comment - just how many people are still running three-rail Lionel setups? The Florida Train show at Deland last weekend, most of the stuff for sale was Lionel, or American Flyer...) but I've made some great purchases at shows. 3) Ebay. Know what you want, and how much you are prepared to pay. Coffee earlier this morning was 'Chock full of nuts, white, no sugar.

@BattleshipOrion

2 жыл бұрын

And, in my (not so) humble opinion & past practices, my old MRR clud became a after-school model car club. Started with Ebay, Trainworld, etc. We gave up because the engines where to expensive, track was bulky, and it was a split off of a pre-established group with existing layout. That group was 150 miles away. Mind explaining to me how any of your logic does not provoke the slow dissolution of the hobby to others such as cars, tanks, & ships? With that inmind with a simular example to SD40-2's, the Tiger 1, Porche 911, and Titanic? Even the more advanced sets where less than a SD40-2 with road specific details. Oh, and we could not travel. Why? When we started, we had to walk, or ride the bus. When the group split, we had jobs after school. The logic is, why get a new hunk of overpriced plastic, brass, & copper when I can save for a decent house & a quiet neighborhood using that money. And that's the logic still, even though all 12 of us where left behind by that group. They wanted Wabash or Norfolk Southern, we wanted Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, and Denver & Rio Grande. We also wanted to a port, based in Texas with some Oregon mixed in & a mainly Colorado & Kansas feel. That group abandoned us, freeing us from that whole speel, and we got into cars, and eventually, military models for those of us who still communicate.

Model railroading's biggest problem may be the notion that DCC is a necessity. It's not. Nor is code 83 nickel silver track. Buy code 100 brass. Yes, you are going to have to clean it once a month with some alcohol pads. So what? Move on to some Athearn Blue Box locos and cars. Life-Like Proto 2000. Rivarossi steam. Accurail. (For saying this I may be hung for heresy) BUILD A SHAKE THE BOX KIT. Model railroading can be extremely affordable.

Hey mate, I see where you are coming from and you make great points...... But you should see Australian prices for local gear. Bad!

I would agree with you about prices. I've been in the hobby on a fairly serious level since the mid 1980s. A superior quality HO locomotive (Atlas, Stewart, Kato) was around $50, remember an Athearn F7 didn't even include a windshield! As you said a non DCC locomotive can still be had for less than $100, but add in a basic decoder and that's going bring up the cost. And lets not forget the demise of the local hobby shop is going to force you to buy online. Shipping costs are going to add $10 to $15 to your purchase. Even E-Bay is getting expensive. Kits of structures that used to be $10 to $12 are now over $25. One thing people must absolutely consider now is focusing on what you need for your railroad, not what looks neat and catches your eye. Can't tell you how many things I bought because they looked good at the time. At $10 or less not much of a problem, but now, no way. For better or for worse, the era of the $2.99 Athearn blue box freight car kit is gone.

This was helpful information. Are local hobby shop has lots of train stuff and guys that do model railroading so that helps alot. They have had some estate sale train stuff in HO and N scale that have been reasonable priced. Got a KATO CB&Q EMD E5A & Silver Streak Zephyr 6 unit set for 199.95 and it runs beautiful. My brother found 3 KATO diesel engines at a place call Trash and Treasures store for a 100 apiece he got 2 of them. They did not know they where DCC till he got them home but they work great so he went back and bought the 3rd one and told the man about the engines but the guy said because he had told him that price he sold it to him for a 100 but my brother gave him 200 anyway because this man has been good with his pricing on train stuff we have gotten from him. So 400 for 3 DCC engines that run great was very fair price. Keep looking and you can find great bargains just be patient. GOD BLESS 🚂❤🚂❤🚂❤