…but now we need skills. The sisyphus simulation starts now.

@NotLuigi

Жыл бұрын

One must imagine Bafael happy

@Lazycandle

Жыл бұрын

Light punch and crouching light punch tier list when

I like tier lists because I enjoy hearing the discussion and justification of placements. In regards to this channel the in depth analysis is what I love.

@Atlas_FGC

Жыл бұрын

It's pretty rare to find the occasion where you can get away without actual metrics and just have it be opinions. I like older tier lists because you had the discussion with opinion to weigh against results, but now it's all opinions and feelings for character tier lists these days.

@10kRats

Жыл бұрын

​@@Atlas_FGC the standards for evidence in tier lists have never been particularly high. Even just lists made of weighted tournament placements don't give the full picture

i have watched the 3s super tier list ten times and i am prepared to do the same for this video. baf wins again

@johnjohnothan5927

Жыл бұрын

Pinkerton

Love these long discussion type videos. Great background noise when labbing or playing something

Just a note from a Birdie player, VT2 activation is a wonderful anti-air. It hits behind him, high above him, and even if they're very close to the ground. Juggle combo into super is half your life bar and he's still got his full VT bar left to use. 🙂

@Bafael

Жыл бұрын

true

Gonna need a task force to protect bafael the way lil b had back in the day

@burkshomemadememes

Жыл бұрын

Bafael just needs to use v-reversal on them on defense to keep them off

"I'll explain each in case you don't play sf5 and you are just watching this" on an almost 3 hour long video on a niche topic... This is why I subscribe to you; I don't play sf5 but I am so into this video lmao

Timestamps for character v-triggers: Abigail vt1: 5:30 Abigail vt2: 8:22 Akuma vt1: 10:22 Akuma vt2: 11:56 Alex vt1: 13:33 Alex vt2: 15:15 Birdie vt1: 17:10 Birdie vt2: 18:54 Bison vt1: 21:09 Bison vt2: 22:36 Blanka vt1: 25:15 Blanka vt2: 27:29 Cammy vt1: 28:50 Cammy vt2: 31:34 Chun-li vt1: 34:08 Chun-li vt2: 35:40 Claw (Vega) vt1: 37:05 Claw (Vega) vt2: 39:03 Cody vt1: 40:22 Cody vt2: 43:39 Ed vt1: 46:20 Ed vt2: 50:51 Falke vt1: 52:54 Falke vt2: 53:54 Fang vt1: 56:07 Fang vt2: 58:09 G vt1: 1:00:12 G vt2: 1:00:53 Gief (Zan) vt1: 1:03:36 Gief (Zan) vt2: 1:00:58 Gill vt1/vt2: 1:09:39 Guile vt1: 1:12:12 Guile vt2:1:13:47 E-honda vt1: 1:15:43 E-honda vt2: 1:17:47 Ibuki vt1: 1:19:01 Ibuki vt2: 1:21:16 Juri vt1: 1:22:13 Juri vt2: 1:23:48 Kage vt1: 1:25:32 Kage vt2: 1:26:48 Karin vt1: 1:28:52 Karin vt2: 1:31:01 Ken vt1: 1:33:42 Ken vt2: 1:35:14 Kolin vt1: 1:36:20 Kolin vt2: 1:38:09 Laura vt1: 1:39:23 Laura vt2: 1:40:40 Lucia vt1: 1:44:31 Lucia vt2: 1:46:51 A- tier added: 1:49:02 Menat vt1: 1:49:53 Menat vt2: 1:51:55 Mika vt1/vt2: 1:53:18 Nash vt1: 1:55:13 Nash vt2: 1:56:25 Necalli vt1/vt2: 1:57:40 Poison vt1: 1:59:24 Poison vt2: 2:00:25 Rashid vt1: 2:02:09 Rashid vt2: 2:03:19 Rog (Bal) vt1: 2:04:33 Rog (Bal) vt2: 2:05:31 Ryu vt1: 2:06:05 Ryu vt2: 2:08:00 Sagat vt1: 2:09:44 Sagat vt2: 2:10:59 Sakura vt1: 2:12:09 Sakura vt2: 2:13:42 Seth vt1: 2:15:12 Seth vt2: 2:16:24 Sim (Dal) vt1: 2:17:57 Sim (Dal) vt2: 2:19:30 Urien vt1: 2:20:39 Urien vt2: 2:22:42 Zeku vt1: 2:23:50 Zeku vt2: 2:25:09

@pretzels7437

Жыл бұрын

Dan VT1 - 2:26:19 Dan VT2 - 2:28:00 Rose VT1 - 2:29:09 Rose VT2 - 2:30:12 Oro VT1 - 2:32:06 Oro VT2 - 2:33:22 Akira VT1 - 2:35:15 Akira VT2 - 2:36:07 Luke VT1 - 2:37:08 Luke VT2 - 2:38:55

@Bafael

Жыл бұрын

Thanks I'll make it into chapters.

@thatgoodstuff1986

Жыл бұрын

@@Bafael Np I had alot of time to kill

@thatgoodstuff1986

Жыл бұрын

@@pretzels7437 I probably should have watch thru fully to check if the vid covered the more recent characters

Adding to the Gill stuff for anyone who is interested. VT1 has two specials. The javelin (big fireball) and the burn storm (when he points upwards) Point upwards:For most part, it works like a Strive 6P, just you can cancel back into normals as well. Big htibox, sets you on fire, shitty against crossups. Javelin: Big fireball with a lot of pushback on block/hit. The main gimmick of that fireball that it has three hit of fireball nullfication+ blank fireball hitbox which nullifies any other projectile no matter of ex/VT/Super properties. It even deals with hybrid moves (can delete Aegis if you hit in the right angle f.e) You can also chain these two together for a slight V-meter discount. Also it makes his fireballs plus, getting bigger hitboxes, more damage, and lariat gives oki in VT. He can get 4 of either specials or 3 the combined. 10 VT enchanced special moves VT2: Two extra special moves as well Tree of frost (big projectile spawning from the hand): Enormous pushback on hit/block, 5 hits of projectile. Does a lot of stun if fully connects. Freeze lance: The booby trap. Very plus on hit, reasonably plus on block part of 70% Gill twitter footage. It actually has a capture animation which makes anything which getting hit by it stuck for the entire advantage duration. Besides getting trade combos, it can actually capture physical objects as well such as Nadeshiko, Ibuki's shuriken, Rashid's VT1 tornado etc. Both of them spends slightly less than the quarter of his V-meter. Also it makes his fireballs plus, getting bigger hitboxes, more damage, and lariat gives oki in VT. Both of VTs: Buffing his VS1 (the comet) by lot. The comet becomes much larger and deal s more damage, They're also getting a 10 frame duration AOE explosion with the same properties as the original comet. They're getting enough frame advantage and hitsun to give fullscreen hitconfirms from any stray hit, also you can cancel them from and into to regular fireball /tackle for the corresponding element (fire for VT1 and ice for VT2) both on hit and block. Note neither of the comets or the cancels are consuming any V-meter. The only thing preventing it from being S is the activation itself. You can't Vt cancel from any tackles and generally Gil lacks the hitconfirmable mediums to activate optically on hit either. So either should do it neutral or commit the activation route no matter what.

I don't particularly enjoy tier list videos, but I enjoy listening to your fighting game analysis and seeing the discussion. You're one of the few fg channels that actually encourages that. My opinion might not hold a lot of weight since I honestly haven't enjoyed SFV for most of it's life but I'd absolutely put Gief VT1 in S. I'd argue it's one of the best designed VTs in the game. It does so much for him but still feels really balanced. If Gief were a real character, he'd probably be a monster of the back of VT1 alone.

"I think people really like tier list videos" Correct.

Above S tier should be Tengu Stone tier

YESSSS get that KZread engagement and ad revenue instead of just being torn apart on Twitter

I loved watching your 3s supers tier list over and over so I'm gonna do this again with this

22:50 I think Bison having a command grab like this is perfectly fine, if not a really welcome addition. It's very in character for him and fits well with some of the other things he can do with his Psycho Power, namely brainwashing.

Really solid tier list. Love to hear your thoughts. Timestamps are a godsend. Some characters in SFV are basically V-Trigger the character (mostly Urien but also Oro Stones).

Thanks so much for the video, baf! These lists are so comforting to listen to.

@johnjohnothan5927

Жыл бұрын

“You’re welcome” - Baf

@elkabat5205

Жыл бұрын

​@@johnjohnothan5927 Oh my god, it's the real bafael! Quick! Say your signature catchphrase

@johnjohnothan5927

Жыл бұрын

It’s bafael time

@elkabat5205

Жыл бұрын

@@johnjohnothan5927 hell yeah! Hadoken ☄️👍

OH YEAH an additional thing abt the raging demons fur those triggers that i think is really notable is that they're command throws that you can't v-shift! in that sense they're actually MUCH stronger than just working as a 720. a long while ago i tried to come up with a system to assess the strength of triggers based on numerical ratings in a number of categories and sub-categories that basically broke down like this: 1. screen space / positioning -corner carry; a LOT of really good triggers rate highly here, corner offense is very oppressive in SFV (example: rog VT1) -side switch; on hit is good, on block is great. strong fur the same reasons as above (example: kage VT1) -neutral tools / neutral skips; generally, giving chars a "fuck it" option and/or something that forces the opponent to hesitate in neutral and opens up other tools, either as an offensive threat or a reactive punish option against their tools like fireballs or jumps (example: luke VT1, zeku VT2) 2. offense -conversions; opening up new routes from ordinarily unthreatening hits (example: kage VT2) -damage; just generally boosting damage of existing conversions (example: ken VT1) -mixup; very impurrtant, giving up defensive mechanics means strong offense is vital, especially if it's a trigger you expect to activate on block. new tools that punish v-reversal or v-shift also count here imo, funnily enough fur some armor or parry-type triggers the biggest value is just countering v-reversal (example: all triggers you put in S tier) -setplay; also very impurrtant, triggers that don't let you continue your offensive turn are ehhhh, triggers that do are really good (example: alex VT2) 3. defense; you give up a lot on defense when you activate so new defensive tools can be a big deal, though generally i think this category is the least impactful most of the time since if your aim is to spend v-meter defensively it's mostly going to be better to just use v-reversal or v-shift (example: kage VT1) 4. resource -timer; both timer length and flexibility in how much timer you spend matter a lot here. fur 3 bar triggers i think it is impurrtant to be able to spend about half on your activation and half on your followup, and fur 2 bars i think it can also be impurrtant to be able to spend all of it in one go. imo the absolute lowest scoring triggers here would be stuff like ryu VT1 at its worst, where it both does not last very long AND is not easy to spend entirely in a single sequence, meaning it is very likely you take damage during trigger that does not convert to resource (example: akuma VT1, 4000 frames lol) -meter gain; EX meter is incredibly valuable in SFV and triggers that build a lot of it are great as a way to convert one resource to another (example: gill, in general) -meter flexibility; the ability to do strong VT sequences using 0, 1, 2, or 3 EX meters is huge, since it means it is a threat at all times. (example: if you want to see a trigger that scores really badly in this category look at bison's old VT1; bad without EX and no real good ways to combo into CA. OTOH the current bison VT1 rates VERY high imo, it's extremely explosive with any amount of meter) 5. ease of activation -safe activations; VTs with lots of cancel options that lead to favorable situations or triggers that are easy to activate in neutral are great here, VTs that are outright unsafe on activation are not (examples: either cody trigger from EX zonk / rashid or ed VT1 neutral activations) -flexible activation routes; this is sort of the alternative to the above fur unsafe triggers, and sort of overlaps with the offensive subcategory of conversions, but this is specifically about activating. THE trigger here is ken VT2 imo, you can go into it from just about anything and it's great as a punish tool in neutral. over the lifespan of the game i think the categories that ended up mattering the most have been corner carry, neutral tools, conversions, mixup, setplay, timer, and ease of activation. the anatomy of what a top tier trigger looks like is typically some combination of: can activate basically whenever you want, is immediately threatening in your offense, leads to additional offensive situations on a successful hit, forces your opponent to sit still in neutral, gives you new routes from multiple types of hit you can land, and has a long timer and/or has good control over timer use. if i were to revisit this system and try to score every trigger in the game, i would purrobably have some kind of multiplier fur these traits that weighs them more heavily than the others.

Have you done a SF4 ultra tier list vid? I would love to see what the worst ultras are, since I generally don't know the consensus except Dirty Bull and Metsu Shoryu.

On Zangief’s VT1, don’t forget that it also powers up VS1 (the Iron Body crab walk) so that it can absorb 100 hits (!) as long as trigger is active. I have had matches where I needed to activate trigger not for the lariat, but for VS1 armor. It is a godsend to plow through multi hitting moves and live to tell the tale, lol. Also in the early years of SF5, Zangief was able to survive even with a pixel of health left, which was also a positive of the powered up VS1. Unfortunately they nerfed this when armored moves no longer prevented chip out with no white meter, which was originally meant to nerf Abigail’s then ridiculous difference in power.

we do like tierlist videos but we love bafael videos

Amazing video, would have been amazing to see your take on a V Skill tier list but i guess it's late lol

Off-topic but would you cover more of the Omega SF4 characters? That game seems so intresting yet not even half the roster has even been covered yet

I cant wait for sf6 just to see baf posting more tech videos

Great content Baf! I would like to know your opinion on USFIV tiers in this video format, it would be great to watch!

For Laura VT2 and to add to some of the points you made and rocwell9 was making: If you have it up, you can counter opponent V-reversals and V-shift-breaks. The instant grab has some fear factor similar to M. Bison VT grab and can be sprinkled in after a medium or ex-elbow if you forego the follow-up (usually opponents don't expect you to NOT go for the follow-up on these specials). When paired with VS1, you can catch opponents off guard with the dash, and you have more reliable fireball/poke grab punishes. With VS2 I think it gets some neat properties but I'm not sure what they are. There's a Laura player (their youtube name is "Nina" written in katakana) who usually uses VS2 and VT2. Their main usage of VT2 is to counter opponent defensive options. B- is fair, but I can see B as well.

For Abigail's VT1 : the overall damage buff is quite nice, at least if you can't use the charged fierce buttons anymore

Probably not really intentional but I like how the final tier list just jumps straight from B- to D. Really underlines the placement of Cammy and Karin VT2.

I love using Kolin VT1, even though her VT2 is usually preferred. The buffs her VT1 got made me use it more often since I just prefer a neutral game, and being able to do dash forward medium kick/hail.

I was hoping mid video that you'd make a v-skill tierlist. Please do!

I will recommend to add time stamps so people can watch this more easily or heard the part they care more about and see the others in the order they want.

1:47:54 had this video passively playing while labbing luke, my heart damn near stopped

One Karin player I watch picks VT2 on Cammy and Honda to dissuade dive kicks and butt slams. I can see why, since Karin doesn't rely a lot on her trigger to win games anyways - so even if she pops trigger and loses vshift, she can still answer those moves without meter. Still doesn't change the vtrigger's tier, though.

@Bafael

Жыл бұрын

intriguing! It does give her a reply to certain things like that yeah.

Baf wins again, he said he needed a sip but took a whole chug. That’s a baf sip for you, big hydration for a big man.

I like tier list videos mostly so I can hear thought processes. I care less about how they stack up against each other. The videos of yours that I drop everything to watch were your 'bad balancing' videos

Fills fitting re: Chun’s VTs VT1 is neat but you can block it out and it’s just a less-scary Rose VT1 at that point, feels very B-tier VT2 has a lot of neat applications and just pumps out damage off your most-used EX move on activation and staples extra damage off your pokes - just makes Chun better at what she’s already doing BUT lacks the cheapness that defines the S-tier VTs, so A works

bisons vtrigger one now lets you cancel regular specials into each other however it drains vtrigger meter far faster then the ex moves with the exception of head press. im not good enough too say if that should boost it up a rank but its definitely way better then it was especially since you can cancel special moves into each other on block.

Just some minor mistakes I caught. Not blaming you for forgetting them, there are a lot of triggers. Someone said already, but Vega VT2 has 2 uses Oro's VT1 only has 2 uses, the 3 uses was an idea you gave in the patch video. Rashid eagle spike super cancels in VT2, I don't know if it's good, but it's fun VT2 Fang Ryobenda gets more juggle potential Lots of the triggers increase super damage by 20 or so, not very important, but it is a thing. Hope this is helpful for anyone, and please tell me if anything else was missed.

@Smashomon8004

Жыл бұрын

Bison can cancel into the VT2 bomb as a hit, so you can get it from anything. Kage has 3 cancelled teleports in VT1, 6 raw teleports. Only VS has 2 uses. Ed VT1 has different speeds it can be thrown at. Mostly not useful as, for mix-ups, you want it to be slow, but used in at least some combo trials. This may have been assumed, but G can now cancel VT2 into G charge, speech or VS2, which leave you +2, +2 and +16. Laura VT2 into vs2 is fireball invincible and into vs1 dash lets you do dash up command grab. I only know the latter from one combo trial.

@Smashomon8004

Жыл бұрын

I was just messing around with Ed and, no the VT2 guard break doesn't get rid of all white health when it hits.

@Smashomon8004

10 ай бұрын

I don't know if this would affect the placement, but for Necalli VT2, because it's an infinite trigger, every example of 'this was hurt by v-shift' are null as he can't anymore, so things like Abigail VT1 is now terrifying. It also means you can't v-reversal to escape chip-out at rounds end if you activate. I feel like the fact the you lose your defensive mechanics for activating trigger isn't talked about much.

@Smashomon8004

9 ай бұрын

Just watched Cammy final patch, and you mentioned that you can special cancel the dash to get more conversions.

So the thing about Vega's VT2 that makes it better than VT1 in my opinion is the fact that you can use the launcher twice. Giving you equal or higher damage to the rose off of two interactions in this game is huge, especially for a character who desperately wants rounds to end as quickly as possible since the longer they drag on the more his less than stellar defense becomes an issue. That and slide into delayed parry catches way too many people off guard at least once

Nash Master here. B ~ A- for VT2 is fair. He gets lots of mix ups, but honestly in mirror matches, VT2 is really knowledge check. VT1 is more dangerous with SB mix ups. I still pick VT2 all the time because its just really cool.

@blooper5li

2 ай бұрын

I feel like B is the right spot for it, but for entirely different reasons. On most characters, I would consider VT2 an easy A-tier trigger knocking on the door to S. However, Nash gets a lot of mileage out of V-reversal and V-shift for his defense. This leads to the awkward situation where Nash really doesn't get to use it in most matches because he's had to already spend resources to get out of trouble. This leads to the hilarious situation where VT1 is a generally bad trigger on a character who actually gets a ton out of it while VT2 is an amazing trigger stuck on a character who can't use it much. As a Nash player, I find VT1 the far superior trigger, but that's less for what it does when activated and more for how it forces opponents to respect your neutral game more which is exactly what Nash wants. Both are viable though and VT2 is undeniably flashier and significantly more threatening.

if you want, i have a tiermaker list that has four entries fur every character (except luke,) since it has VT and VS. that might be like a five hour stream though lol. i agree that bison VT2 is that good but i honestly think oro/menat/laura are their own tier above the other S tiers. they are just so insanely good and completely change the game when they have it in a way that can mean that a single wrong decision instantly leads to a losing scenario. other triggers i think could fit into the top tier below those three are both of cody's and boxer VT1, but it's kinda hard to say how much of it is the triggers and how much of it is just them. cody just gets so much neutral threat from the knife and such fucked up offense from the pipe, and boxer VT1 i feel like can consistently do something big if you're using it in the right way. people overrate the VT1 mix with the overhead when IMO getting a bunch of corner carry and ending in a grounded VS1 punch ender fur point blank +2 is much stronger in terms of offense. it even gives him a safe armored reversal, the amount he gets out of it is just crazy. nash VT2 is like...i could see A- but i dunno. the fireball dash cancels can be really good offensively, the combos are good, the corner carry is good, i still feel like you are ultimately playing a character that is just kind of OK when you have it activated. it's really fun to use, at least. really agree with you about juri VT2, people just tend to underestimate the value of meter gain in SFV fur some reason. it's still not a great trigger but people get into really limited ways of thinking when they talk about it and about juri as a character. i generally think falke VT2 is much better than VT1 fur the combined reasons of: you have more routes into it, i think typically you want to spend almost all your v-meter w her on defensive mechanics, and activating on block doesn't matter much to her. imo you only really want to activate when you already have the hit, and VT2 activate works from more types of hits, which matters since it bridges any hit into her CA. it improves her whiff punish threat, makes purractive space control moves like 2MP and 6HP much more dangerous, and improves the consistency of her combos from her DP into her CA, which whiffs on high connect. it also does buff VS2 indirectly since she gets a combo ender she can cancel into setting an orb, though i don't really think you'll do that very much. VT1 itself isn't THAT bad, i just don't think it fits in to what felt to me like the strongest way to play the character most of the time. appurreciate the upload a lot. this type of list is a lot of fun.

Contnet, baby!

Honestly, talking about alex's triggers i feel vt2 allows alex to have pressure off of more situations but his biggest problem is closing in and vt2 just doesnt help with that as such i feel like vt1 is better as it allow you to play neutral better and get a lot of damage from parries.

Haven't watched the full video yet, but where's Sim?

@Bafael

Жыл бұрын

Near the end because the alphabetical list had him as Sim instead of dhalsim.

Baf is back! Have you seen all this crap about that street fighter mobile game? I’ve downloaded it and regretted everything, it’s just some weird autobattler

39:03 vega vt2 launcher is 2 uses, they buffed it

For clarification, Vega VT2 gets two uses of either attack or parry now since the last patch. This allows two vt2 attacks in one combo for example.

Maybe I missed it but, where are the season 5 characters?

@Bafael

Жыл бұрын

They're not in the tier maker so I just say them aloud at the end. I say this repeatedly throughout the video but I understand if you're jumping around you'd miss it lol

@sc065

Жыл бұрын

@@Bafael Gotcha, thanks. Skipped to a few different characters, noticed it, first impression was "is this an old re-upload?"

FTW! dope.

Angry comment about disagreement for the sake of engagement

Can someone edit the vine boom sfx every time baf says the rock For the one time

Where's the vskill tier list?

USF4 ultra tier list would be pretty lame. Since 90% of them are just 50 points of damage (after scaling of course) you slap at the end of a 15 hit combo

Baf if you make that ultra tier list I will leave my coom den and find a woman to treat well

Karin VT2 underrated

This trigger tier list triggered Twitter people

:o

Nisu

That cammy player was cap af bro. I do agree that cammy vt1 gameplay wise just kinda lame compared to what other characters do, but it is still a huge momentum shift for cammy. And fuk the concept of handshaking I guess. Like, "if this thing does not make me completely own the round it SUCKS". Just because vshift is a universal answer to it it doesn't mean her VT is useless now. If your vt FORCES me to NOT use mine, that is an ok trade. Also, pls name me one character that does not get affected by v-shift, I'll wait.

@Bafael

Жыл бұрын

V-shift is really impactful for anything reactable and there's lots of trigger actions that aren't reactable. That's why I usually bring it up for guard breaks but cammy's divekick going from extremely plus to outright punishable is a gamechanger if the person reacts. T-kimura is a cammy main so it could be downplaying but also he's an ultimate grand master on CFN so I'm willing to defer to that. I agree that v-shift isn't an end all be all though since removing the opponent's trigger or punishing them for activating it is strong.

@TheDonaldduck911

Жыл бұрын

@@Bafael Yeah but it's only punishable in certain situations, I don't think calling it straight up punishable paints the whole picture, especially since people got good at punishing the vtrigger divekick very well before vshift. It's the fact that the opponent has to play around it cause it becomes such a huge momentum shift for cammy. Cammy players love to act as if her VT is sucky just because she doesn't get oro rocks, but truth is she gets one of the best special moves in the game. You mentioned in the beginning that the list was about how much better the character becomes in VT, and cammy's VT1 is the entire reason why she's considered around high tier, and not just a mid tier jobber with limited neutral, crappy vskills, crappy vreversal, short range, and not that great damage.

im a fan of the bafael corp industries, but this list some ass

@johnjohnothan5927

Жыл бұрын

I love ass, and lists!