Brilliantly done. Everytime I brought the torso murders up as a possible victims I got shouted down. Mutilation murders are thankfully incredibly rare even now. In the nineteenth century even rarer yet we are told to accept two in the same part of London at the same time. I find this massively unlikely. Please keep them coming.

@MrDaiseymay

3 жыл бұрын

If his family was running a ''Catmeat'' business on the side, he could bring home the bodies at night, and / or store em at work, cut em up an dump their parts all over--

@TheAndybow1964

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrDaiseymay I agree. Maybe sometimes he had a place of privacy. Somewhere he could perhaps go even further. A butchers shop or yard he knew would be unoccupied. When he got Kelly alone at Millers Court he went much further than he'd been able to on the streets. So he undoubtedly had that desire.

@michaelalangordon6120

2 жыл бұрын

I find this unlikely even today one body washes up in the Thames every day. I think it far more likely that once people heard Torso's were washing up in the river they disposed of bodies in the same way.

@graemekeable8461

5 ай бұрын

I totally agree. To suggest these murders were committed by someone other than JTR is folly

@melissamcfarlin6840

2 ай бұрын

I agree. I mean how many homicidal maniacs can there be running around a few square miles.

Richard Ramirez also killed his victims pretty much in a different way. Also, speaking of torso killer, i been checking up on Times Square Torso Ripper of the 70’s; there’s a documentary on him on Netflix. Couldn’t help but draw parallels to Lechmere if he is the ripper. The killer was a married man with kids who killed on his way to and from work. In his interview after getting caught, he said something along the lines of “more i got away, more I wanted to push the boundaries.” He went on about how he developed a thrill off it; purposely walking in front of cops and even chatting with them with his victim’s head in his backpack.

@thehouseoflechmere9407

5 ай бұрын

I will check out the times square case

Hi. You once said that the lechmere family had no knowledge of the fact that their great great uncle or grandfather was charles cross hence was linked to at least the 1st canonical murder of the jack the ripper series. Isnt it the strongest evidence supporting lechmere's guilt? If you're innocent and happen to find the first victim of the most famous case in crime history, you would brag about it to your friends, family, grandchildren and recount the dreadful morning at length. To not only lie to the police about your name (which is very bad, but can still be explained if lechmere was highly paranoid), but hide it to your family even decades later is highly incriminating indeed. Have you found descendants of robert paul? Do they have knowledge of their ancestor involvement in the case? Was he not suspicious of lechmere and did he not tell his family? I mean his first interview to the press indicates that his first impression of lechmere is fear, "trying to give a wide berth". Plus afterwards the next murder happens next to his place of work , where lechemere left him the week prior, and he is suspected by the police. He must have suspected something and talked about it.

@eddybutler7229

3 жыл бұрын

Yes I think so

@AlexaLake1

3 жыл бұрын

You make excellent points in your post and I agree. If Lechmere was innocent, he would have been so unsettled by the incident of finding a dead woman's body that he would have told at least his family members. That story would have been passed down through the generations. I, too, think he killed her and possibly the others.

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, this all fits together too well to be just a massive series of coincidences

@redrum4100

Жыл бұрын

I would think so but I watched a TV program some time back when three people were brought together to discus being the descendants of some of the Ripper's victims. None of them had a clue until contacted by the program.

@Liz-sn1mm

2 ай бұрын

The Ripper victims were all perceived as prostitutes and alcoholics, so I imagine family members at the time would not want to advertise any relationship.

I have to say, this is excellent. I had always discounted the ripper murders and the torso killer being the same person (for the most part). But after your comments regarding the GSK case, well, I had never thought about it like that. You are completely correct, the GSK case does force us to reevaluate long standing serial killer traditions and behaviours, and thus has forced me to reconsider the prospect of the ripper and the torso killer being the same person.

No doubt given all the wonderful evidence you have collected that Lechmere raises allot of flags. His profession strained relationship with women and local of the murders so close to his haunts ...way more viable than Kominski imo. Great work

@SMC01ful

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, Kominski isn't a patch on Lechmere.

Congratulations for this excellent video. I would like to inform you that the novel "The Most Dangerous Animal. A Victorian thriller"" by Uruguayan ripperologist Gabriel Pombo , has been published in Spanish (2016), whose plot is based on the case of the Thames Torso Murderer. Best regards.😊

Would love 💘 to see the rest of these stories in detail. Thanks for your great videos!

@MrDaiseymay

3 жыл бұрын

LOVE ?????????

I think Lechmere whether he was the killer or not was a smart bastard, and of course, if he was Jack, pretty bloody lucky. It's amazing Scotland Yard solved so many cases, but they were still dealing with attitudes, and limitations of the times.

@Lemon83166

Жыл бұрын

His step father was a policeman, so it wouldnt surprise me if he learnt things from him or was brought into the murder thoughts by stories told to him In an episode before, it was mentioned he might have told Robert Paul "oh ill take care of the PC. I know how to talk to cops". Its likely he believed he was above the police and so could manipulate them, just like he used that fake name "Chase".

@drunkensailor112

Жыл бұрын

They solved many cases because most criminals are even dumber than the police. Not with lechmere

Hello Edward, great work you're doing here. Your name will be remembered for a long time by Lechmereology. Cheers!

Very interesting Ed! I'm looking forward to the connection to Lechmere.

Saucy Jack was a busy, busy boy from 1870-1888. Didn’t Lechmere write a book later in his life called “As It Happened “ about the Ripper murders?

@MakerInMotion

5 ай бұрын

No such book exists.

@thehouseoflechmere9407

5 ай бұрын

I think it was an attempt at a joke

can't wait for more!

Absolutely Amazing. I could watch your videos all day Very Mysterious Goings on about London Thank You Very Much. Cheers 🍻 🇬🇧🇺🇸🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Maybe the torso murders was victims Lechmere had taken/lured home. Now he had enought time and good reason to part them up and get rid of in pieces? The Ripper murders where more an act of opportunity, and didn't have to get rid of Mary Kelly.

@MrDaiseymay

3 жыл бұрын

Good point. his house must have stank terrible though. this was how the serial killer Dennis Nilsen was caught.neighbours complained about the smell, and choked up drains.

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrDaiseymay the thing is that there are so many leather tanning and meat processing factories throughout the area, on top of the human waste that's literally lining the streets, so you really couldn't notice decomposition as easily, unless you're in an attached suit or are someone that would recognize it

@Shaeniff

3 жыл бұрын

I had the same thought. His victims would have been easy to take home because they were eager to get customers. And he was delivering meat all over London. Wouldn't have been hard to toss in a few extra pieces each time. It totally all fits.

@larsbjrnson3101

Жыл бұрын

@@philipskalla4312So where did the torso killer dismemble his victims then?

@larsbjrnson3101

Жыл бұрын

@@philipskalla4312 Maybe a slaughterhouse? He was a cardriver for a slaughterhouse transporring meat all day.

I first heard about the theory that Jack the Ripper was Charles Cross (Lechmere) when a Swedish journalist suggested it. I thought it was very interesting and cogent but the only problem was that it didn't explain why he stopped killing. Your theory resolves the problem. Also, I heard that the murderer used an axe as well as a knife on Mary Kelly's body. This may show a connection to those torso murders.

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

Also; their bodies were dismembered using a "very sharp kife" and a saw had also been used. From the Lancet: "Contrary to the popular opinion, the body had not been hacked, but dexterously cut up; the joints have been opened, and the bones neatly disarticulated, even the complicated joints at the ankle and the elbow, and it is only at the articulations of the hip-joint and shoulder that the bones have been sawn through.“ So not like the New Orleans Axe Murderer type of body pieces being found. More calculated ...like a butcher!

@ginabataille1796

Жыл бұрын

@@philipskalla4312 You obviously haven't read Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment" and how the main character carried his weapon to commit murder.

The golden state killer was a police officer during many of his crimes.

And thank you. Very interesting presentation.

If anything Lechmere would be a better suspect for the torso murders. What better line of work for a serial killer than to cut and deliver all kinds of "fresh meat" for Pickfords everywhere in the city of London. Who seeing him out a night would give it a second thought? Also, has anyone determined the date he started his work as a driver, when placed against the beginning and end of the killings? (Maybe the timelines of the two would match up) BTW, it sounds like the latest victim hit the water in the middle of your narration. (YIKES!)

Given the tidal range I think that if a killer put body parts into the river at a single point, for example at Wapping, over a period of days they could be found at points way upstream or downstream. For the parts to be found spread from Putney to Barking (or indeed after a few days anywhere further downstream) only requires a few days of tides.

The Hackney Hospital Nearly 250 years ago, in 1750, the Wardens, Overseers and Trustees of the parish of St John, Hackney, ordered that a room be reserved in the workhouse in Homerton High Street which was 'for the lodging, maintaining and employing of poor persons', so that sick paupers could be treated separately from other inmates .Admission and release records may shed some light on the torsos found in the Thames during the period of 1860 to 1888!!

Thanks Edward. I can't say that I'm convinced yet, but I've only watched this video in the series so far. Was very interested in your comparison with the Golden State Killer as an anomalous serial case. And I'm more interested in Lechmere now than I was. Can I ask, and perhaps you've dealt with this somewhere else in the series: Why do you think he would switch back and forth between the different M.O.'s. It would make sense to me for him to switch from his Whitechapel M.O. when the heat was on, but, since some of these killings precede the Whitechapel killings and some follow, is there a reason why you think he would do this? Not that a lack of reason in any way dismisses the connection. Not every act of every serial killer had a conscious reason behind it. Just wondering your thoughts.

@thehouseoflechmere9407

3 жыл бұрын

I think he did what was convenient at the time. The Ripper murders followed his move away from the general location where his mother lived. I think psychologically she played a major role.

@julesdelorme5192

3 жыл бұрын

That would make sense. Cases like Ed Kemper and Ed Gein definitely indicate that many serial killers are driven by their relationships with their mother. So Freud got that right, at least with abnormal psychology.

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

@@thehouseoflechmere9407 ahhh the time of the move, indeed. I kinda think that the thrill of the papers led him to commit the JtR crimess (including Millwood, Wilson, Smith, and Tabram). He seemed to really enjoy the shock value that people got from discovering his crimes and the canonical five garnered the most attention. Good and bad attention, as it turned out.

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

Perhaps he didn't actually have all the time that he wanted with MJK. He may have been upset that he had to leave, due to sunrise, and carried on in his "lair" instead. It's also possible that he could have had another close call while leaving her place, being questioned by a PC or being seen by someone or something that no one knows about.

@cutekanjii

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe the torso killings were ones he killed "on his patch" therfore had to get rid of the remains but the jack the ripper ones were done "on their patch" so he could just leave them there. However the fact that few mutilations were done on the early jtr victims and the many done go Mary Kelly suggests the Mary Kelly ones are what he fantasised about doing but didn't have the time since it was in such a public place. So if he had somewhere that he brought victims back to to then carry out his fantasies then chip the bodies up to dispose of, it begs the question why bother with the Whitechapel killings in the first place? Why not just take them all to his place? Unless due to his job and personal circumstances this was very difficult to do but while doing his job he was coming across these women and temptations or angers grew. Another explanation may be he had a different MO for a different type of victim, perhaps one was a prostitute & the other a non prostitute. If only we know who the torso victims were then we may know if there was a connection between them all, if they were all known to be linked to the same man

17:24 Removing the face? Shades of Mary Jane Kelly.

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

Yes! I was just reading about this. It said that; "It was evident at a glance that the murderer or murderers had taken revolting precautions to prevent identification, for the nose was cut from the face, but still hung attached to the upper lip" ...and Mary Kelly's nose had been notably removed from her face, so that totally lines perfectly 👌

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

victorianwhitechapel-tumblr-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/victorianwhitechapel.tumblr.com/post/184778244464/thames-mysteries-of-1873-and-1874/amp?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16074384398790&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fvictorianwhitechapel.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F184778244464%2Fthames-mysteries-of-1873-and-1874

@znentitan4032

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the link! It really sounds like whoever did the knew how to dismember a body. (almost like someone who did it everyday for a living?)

What does lechmeres family think about them accusing him of being jack the ripper?

@mutolover3851

3 жыл бұрын

If they're anything like H.H. Holmes' family; they are welcoming it with opened arms! 😅

@M_bags6463

3 жыл бұрын

I believe this man said in another video that he is actually married into the Lechmere family and it was his wife that originally brought this theory to his attention.

@ssrmy1782

Жыл бұрын

A female descendant has done a few interviews about it. She seems more intrigued than offended. She even shared some photos of Lechmere's son, Tom & his wife -- from approx. 1890

Looking at the Torso murders I think the inescapable conclusion is the culprit was a sailor, fishermen, barge man or whatever who sailed up and down the Thames and was dropping the body parts overboard ?

@Lemon83166

Жыл бұрын

Doesnt explain where he found the victims, how he was able to haul the bodies without being discovered or seen, or why some body parts are found on land and not water, which would have been so easy to simply use ur main source of transport. Actually, even. Why bother with the river at all. Why not somewhere much further away.

certanly the police at the time thought the torso killings and the ripper may of been the same person

I was thinking it was likely a sailor on the Thames. Ripper suspect William Henry Piggott was a ships cook on the Thames....

Has the program for the 25 murders been done yet?

Where can I get that map from in this episode

The linking of all those found reminds me of those silly american programmes linking everything to aliens....

So, Mr. Stow, and members of the viewing audience, what do think the Torso Murderer did with the skulls? Did he keep them as part of a perverted collection or do you think he sold them to a medical school of that time?

@AlexaLake1

3 жыл бұрын

Another thought...maybe he sold the skulls to a Barber School? Didn't the barbers of that time extract teeth as well as shave and cut hair for their clients?

@ericfett9218

3 жыл бұрын

Perhaps the skulls are buried and or stored in wooden crates and still waiting to be rediscovered.......

@Liz-sn1mm

2 ай бұрын

A lot of the East End was pulverized during The Blitz.

is there a london resident to explain the police officer patrol system to me? if i understood correctly a police officer was passing through the same place every 15 minutes,i don't understand how he could have done these crimes without getting caught.to strangle and cut the throat and do the mutilations it takes time. i think he was someone who worked in animal cutting,a kind of butcher.

@feliscorax

2 жыл бұрын

According to the post-mortem reports, the killer could have accomplished that inside 10 minutes and then slipped away into the darkness. It’s this small time estimate that makes Lechmere so compelling to some given the ‘Polly’ case (when he was discovered at, near, or staring at - depending upon which testimony you read - the deceased’s body). I’m far from convinced, but there’s an awful lot of circumstantial facts that do paint a portrait that means, for me, he needs to be considered amongst a number of equally viable candidates.

@brianwilcox3478

Жыл бұрын

@@feliscorax sorry captainglory. As far as I know only one man would have known the general times of the trails of the "Bobbies" the man that lived there his whole life, " And worked there. And had relatives that worked the river. That man is Charles Allen Lechmere.

Can u track other murders to this man throughout the rest of his life also. Cuz why would he just stop killing people, unkess maybe he got hurt. Cuz even as an old man wouldn't he have the urge to do this and how the hell did he get away with all of them for so long. I agree that he is the best suspect and matches perfectly(at least the 5). So I guess I'll have to keep watching ur channel. This is super interesting but it is just crazy to me how he got away with this. Even back then one would think somebody couldn't get away with this many. Dude must have been super lucky or a criminal mastermind.

@thehouseoflechmere9407

Жыл бұрын

There can be many reasons why they stop. Their life goes in another direction that gives them an outlet fir their psychopathic urges. They get old and loose their sex drive - these crimes at one level are promoted by that. The police didn't understand serial killing.

@PerryCJamesUK

Жыл бұрын

The myth that serial killers have to kill and will never stop doesn't hold true. This urge to murder motive isn't as cut and dried as many think. These murderers take lives, normally to hide another crime, normally of a sexual nature and often to facilitate necro desires, and as gruesome as the murders are, it's not usually killing for killings sake. There are of course some killers who do murder because they like doing it. The case that everybody knows about is BTK, who was a vicious and perverted murderer of entire families. He decided that he'd give up and was happy with his legacy and the terror that his absence caused. He enjoyed a normal life and was only discovered when his own ego and reputation was threatened by a press story decades later.

I see two many inconsistencies between the two sets of murders.

He had a cart from his work that could be transported body parts.

Mutton and beer were a staple diet and no fruit or veg were given to the poor this would incriminate the work house in Homerton or any other Parish lodgings perhaps this is why stomach contents had to be removed!!

what happend to the arms and legs

I think he did the torso murders inside at his mother's who owned a cat meat business lol maybe like the son of Sam he was getting messages from the cats lol and the ripper murders in the street inside he would of had more time I definitely think they are related maybe being related to a police man they covered it up x

I wonder who the contractor was providing mutton for the Parish!!

Jacko was a very bad boy.

Although the narrator states that serial murderers were not common back then, I must disagree. Serial murderers have always been among us, but were not recognized.

Those are some awfully tight shoes you must be wearing. It sounds as though you could do with a…shoehorn.

can anyone tell me what he thinks about it that israel schartz saw aaron kosminski taking the earth elisabeth stride why is he saying his? or else stride is not a victim of the ripper.

“A good suspect for one is a good suspect for all.” It’s not that simple.

Where are the skulls? He must have saved them and kept them somewhere, else they would have turned up eventually.

@brianwilcox3478

Жыл бұрын

If he put them in the river they would have sunk. Not enough flesh to bloat up to make them float

barely audible with my speakers at full volume

I enjoy your videos but please can you sort out the sound? the intro music is ear splitting and the audio when you speak is almost inaudible! it's like you're testing my hearing and volume response.

@thehouseoflechmere9407

4 жыл бұрын

Everything is a test!

I think a gang was doing the murders for the guild of surgeons at that time it would be interesting to see a list of Guild of surgeons working for Parishes and their hand writing ,most criminals etc Most criminals could not write at this time!!

Jack the Ripper vs Thames Torso Different style killing Different weapon used One left on the streets, and the other dumped in the river One sexually driven, the other not sexually driven One stopped around 1888-89, while the other types of killings were still going on in the same fashion in 1966 (almost cult like) One killed to cut, the other neatly quartered …I could keep going, but I find it unlikely they are the same person.

@daddyknowsbest2341

2 жыл бұрын

@@mathewlawton8944 Waiting for the new book. “How Lechmere sank the Titanic”. Lol 😂

@daddyknowsbest2341

Жыл бұрын

@@philipskalla4312 100% agree.

@babishak.b3001

Жыл бұрын

Exactly ,I think people not getting it.

@brianwilcox3478

Жыл бұрын

Some differences yes, some very similar. How do you explain two dismemberment killers in the same area at the same time. when dismemberment was even rarer than now?? Yes, I know you have no answer. How do you know they all weren't sexually driven? Of course you dont. How do you know a different weapon was used? Of course, you dont. How do you know they were a different style of killing? Were you there When the victim was killed? Of course not. I could keep going but I find it highly likely that there weren't 2 different killers involved here. Could there have been?? Of course. I just dont think so. Similar killings took place in the same areas where Leachmere was from 1873 to 1902. The trouble with Lechmere is he can fit all the TT killings and the JTR killings. Sadly two of his youngest children were killed In a disaster during ww2 at a air raid shelter. I wonder what they knew? Why was Lechmeres Mother buried near him and his wife buried way on the other side of the cemetery? WAY too many coincidence's in his case. How many do you need to tip the scales for you? For me I have seen enough. Anyone else?

Do think you Lechmere do the ripper murder;s

@thehouseoflechmere9407

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

Fascinating story that I would love to learn more about, but the intro and audio is of such poor quality, I just can't.

@thedisabledwelshman9266

2 жыл бұрын

nothing wrong with the intro. as for the audio, turn ya speakers up. lol

This is probably a good video but I can't hear a thing he's saying.

@PoorMansChemist

5 ай бұрын

5:18 Dont give up it becomes audible here.

Cat meat??