In this Feb. 5, 1965 call, President Lyndon Johnson and his attorney general, Nicholas Katzenbach, discuss Martin Luther King, Jr.'s role in Selma one month before Bloody Sunday:
President Johnson: Yes, sir?
Nicholas Katzenbach: I called you because the demonstrations are still continuing down in Selma [Alabama], despite that court order that we got yesterday. And about 400 school kids were arrested just a little while ago for singing in front of the court house down there. And [Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights] John Doar is down there trying to work things out. Maybe he'll be successful. [Martin Luther] King's [Jr.] going to get out of jail, I think, later this afternoon. Doar will speak to him; he [King] may be more reasonable. They've gotten about everything they wanted, but they're still demonstrating.
President Johnson: Hmm.
Katzenbach: And they've got these kids so whooped up there, you know. They don't, I suppose, want to lose the momentum. They've lost their own judgment about it, but King may be better. Maybe they'll calm down.
President Johnson: Well, I think that we ought to give a chance for the order to operate.
Katzenbach: Yes.
President Johnson: And we ought to be fair and reserved about it. And he ought to be told that. And I think that he ought to be told that, "Here's what I said yesterday."
Katzenbach: Yes.
President Johnson: And that's about as strong as a man can say it. And he must not ignore this kind of talk and these kind of statements, and he must help achieve them, and the best way to help achieve them now, is give us a chance. We've been in one court, and we'll be in others. And this is what he asked for, and this is what he's got, and we expect some quid pro quos.
Katzenbach: Right. Well, I'll--That’s what-- [unclear]--
President Johnson: [unclear]--tell him.
Katzenbach: John will tell him, Mr. President. He's also--there's fifteen congressmen down there now.
President Johnson: That's . . .
Katzenbach: This may turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Doar is going to meet with them and try to get them to say a similar thing. That might help, [Johnson acknowledges throughout] because these are all, you know, way on the liberal side. And at least it's worth it--worth the effort. And might even help.
This is a draft and not a fully edited transcript.
For more White House tapes, go to millercenter.org/presidentialr....