A little fun fact is, that the reason why the tunnel is so wide out of Larkspur, is because back in the day interurbans actually used to run through it! It was a part of the Northwestern Pacific's Greenbrae Cut-Off, which allowed interurbans to bypass the lengthy San Anselmo route. Never was too well-patronized, but it was a great route until the interurban was abandoned in 1941.

@BoardRestaurant

5 ай бұрын

Interesting, thanks!

Thanks for filming the train of my hometown. I'm pretty sad that this whole train come into operation pretty much after I moved out of the area I grew up in. I would have been a frequent user.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

We only took the train twice, once northbound and then later southbound. It was a very nice trip and I highly recommend it. Even though you moved out of the area, perhaps you'll find yourself visiting in a way that you can take public transport. For example, from San Francisco airport, you can take BART to Embarcadero, then the ferry to Larkspur, and then the SMART train. This would be an easy itinerary to arrange, and doable, if you don't have bulky luggage. It would also be reasonably quick. So, perhaps you can sample the SMART service in the future?

Took this train when I came to visit my uncle. Super clean and a joy to ride! The "clean" part is so noticeable, coming from the Eastcoast! 😏

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this service is positively unique in many ways, including everything being clean and tidy. Well, except perhaps for the windows on our trip, as these needed a bit of scrubbing! :-)

Thanks for putting a spotlight on this iconic local Northern California system

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

You're very welcome; I'm glad you enjoyed the video.

You did an excellent job covering the train line. I wondered if I saw correctly that it was single track in other videos. That is odd because it limits the number of train traffic north and south. It can be a big problem if a train breaks down because that would block traffic in both directions. I appreciate that you showed the system and ride while criticizing it. The view of open land is somewhat boring and not worth a pleasure trip. I was pleased that you quoted the fare of $12 and running time of 1 hour. None of the other videos did. Smart is not like Bart, but similar to Caltrain in that frequency is hourly.

@BoardRestaurant

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for your good comments. I try to strike a balance between a review type video and a chronicle of an actual trip. Yes, this line is single track with a few passing sections. And yes, as in any situation where a fairly frequent commuter service is over a single track line, problems can occur with service expansion or breakdowns. I don't ride the SMART train daily, so cannot relate any experience of line blockage; perhaps other viewers can give us an idea, if these happen frequently.

i love those vehicles, just like the UP in toronto

Honest I envy everyone who can take advantage of using SMART vs having to drive along that busy stretch of 101. Actually I've heard very different idea of getting SMART over to Napa & finally to Solano County town of Suisun City, where it would terminate @ an Amtrak/Greyhound Bus Station. Either way I'm envious & only wished there was a similar service from Calistoga to Vallejo's Ferry Terminal. Sadly the overall population density probably wouldn't make this idea feasible though I can wish! I rode SMART only once during it's Opening Day & rode it from downtown Santa Rosa to then San Rafael. Yes I've too heard the complaints from many on the long walk from the Larkspur Ferry Terminal & your video clearly showed the lack of connectivity of that idea too. Still overall a nice system.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

If ever a system like you describe (Napa, Suisun City, Calistoga to Vallejo Ferry) gets build, it could really provide a fast and efficient alternative to the private car. I realize that it's a stretch to believe that'll happen, but who knows? The right-of-way exists in many places and the population density isn't rock bottom. This would then approach rail coverage that many areas of rural Europe enjoy, and would definitely be the first-of-its-kind in North America.

@georgegong6813

Жыл бұрын

@@BoardRestaurant Well for such a route like this to happen likely too wouldn't include Suisun City in the equation though makes more sense to continue through American Canyon to Vallejo's Ferry Terminal. Sort of like the old electric interurban that existed in the early 1930's...the Calistoga-Napa-San Francisco. Likewise it was discussed before though shelved for various reasons though population density was one of the arguments against the idea. The Calistoga to Vallejo now is served by VINE bus service which honestly not patronized enough either that might warrant something similar to a DMU or light rail

@Matt-ne6de

10 ай бұрын

when they were making the new 680 carquinez bridge in the 2000s there was a plan to put bart tracks on the new bridge and for bart to continue from martinez around the back of benicia into fairfield and then around to vallejo. But the Benicia city council said the bart would probably bring homeless people into town so they prevented bart coming to Solano -> as if homeless people only rode bart and were unable to use the walkways on the bridges/buses/ferries.

@georgegong6813

10 ай бұрын

@@Matt-ne6de You mean Highway 80 unless you are referring to the once New Benicia-Martinez Bridge which becomes part of 680. I was @ the Vallejo City Council meeting when the late Mayor, Gloria Exline requested the new Al Zampa Bridge to be reinforced if not accommodate BART, a DMU similar to that extension train between North Concord & Antioch Station, or yes something like SMART. Or as she said back then when neither were in service as an example, light rail capable.

@qjtvaddict

9 ай бұрын

Wrong the traffic makes it feasible

Oh no, they closed the little onboard cafe/bars? They used to showcase North Bay products, especially beer and cider.

@BoardRestaurant

7 ай бұрын

Yes, unfortunately when we visited, the on-board catering was closed. I hope that maybe someone will invest in the food and beverage service after the northern extension is built. At that point, the end-to-end trip will approach a couple of hours, and refreshments would be welcome.

One day I’ll take the SMART, already took its brother the UP Express in Toronto twice

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

I hope you'll like it!

The modern term for this sort of line is "Regional Rail". If it was peak hours only into a downtown core, "Commuter Rail" would be the term. Turning Commuter Rail into Regional Rail is one of the best things to do to provide non-commuter mobility around an area. And I am sure some commute on this into San Francisco, combining with the ferry.

@BoardRestaurant

10 күн бұрын

And I'm very glad that non-peak hours schedules are maintained on this service. Perhaps this is why the ridership is good on the weekends, as people get used to having the train when they need it.

As someone who was born and raised in Marin County, I can almost guarantee it's never gonna get electrification. The entire project was done on the cheap and may find it very hard to come back to the taxpayers for more and more money just to run the railroad, let alone the massive level of improvement necessary to electrify it.. Also, it's my understanding that the term used for the sidestepping of tracks at stations to get the passenger car closer to the platform while keeping the freight cars away is called a gauntlet track. Having also said all that I'm glad you enjoyed your trip on the train, I find it very lacking as a train enthusiasm. I was hoping for a lot more from it than what we ended up getting, and as someone who completely relies on public transit to get around I find it virtually useless in my day-to-day life. I live in Marin County and work in San Francisco and it would take me longer and cost me more money to use the train as opposed to jumping on a single bus to get into the city.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comments! As a casual user, I found the SMART train useful and a great experience. While I can see that for a commuter, the bus ride may be more efficient, using the train/ferry combination to get to downtown San Francisco is a very pleasant alternative. Doing things on a shoestring is rarely a good option, however, and it’s not good that folks like yourself, who are train enthusiasts and backers of train service development projects, find the offer lacking. I guess only time will tell, if the SMART service becomes a true backbone for public transit users along the 101 Corridor. And as for electrification, even though in the immediate future there might be no action on that, there have been stranger decisions from elected officials than funding transitioning away from diesel power on what amounts to be a commuter train. 😊

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

It's up to us to make this happen, dude. It won't happen by itself, that's for sure!

@G-546

Жыл бұрын

I think that what SMART urgently needs to do is relocate the Larkspur station to be adjacent to the ferry building, then create a cheaper transfer to attract more passengers. It could be a similar system to the one NYC has going on Staten Island. The current half mile walk is definitely a turn off for many passengers. SMART also needs to rethink some of its stations and make changes such as add parking or allow transit oriented development. I think that the rolling stock and existing infrastructure is up to the standard of what is needed but with a few additional changes I could see the ridership tripling.

@TheGreatPOD

Жыл бұрын

@@G-546 it's a lovely idea , but it's never gonna happen, they don't have enough money to build the railroad as was advertised in the ballot measure. I was shocked when they initially rolled out their route and showing where the Larkspur station was going to be, I asked why they weren't actually going to put the station right next to the ferry building and I was told it would cost too much money and they didn't have the right of way. The entire system is built on existing right of way so they didn't have to purchase any additional land to run the trains, they've never had enough money to properly operate the system and to think they're gonna to lower the fares is just a dream.

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

@@TheGreatPOD This is how these types of rail lines always start. You build what you can afford to build and offer the basic service. As you gain ridership you can expand and upgrade the service. Despite your criticisms, SMART is growing its ridership, so it will continue growing and improving.

It's a shame they never joined BART because it would have made for a much greater system and line however for what it is, it's decent...

@longiusaescius2537

8 ай бұрын

@stickynorth incompatible gauge, and all the worst of SF probably would've used it

@BoardRestaurant

7 ай бұрын

Yes, it makes for a very enjoyable connection between San Francisco and the wine country.

@pandorin2348

7 ай бұрын

Would have loved that. Hate that i have to get off at san rafeal then take a bus to get into SF for work

They really need to reduce service to the Novato San Marin station. It was built to serve the headquarters of the Fireman's Fund Insurance Company, but they relocated to Petaluma before the system opened. In response to this, SMART then constructed a new station nearby in Downtown Novato (where it should have been in the first place), but have kept service to the San Marin station even though there's almost nothing there. Since the line is mostly single-tracked, keeping both stations in operation at the same time throws off the schedule by singlehandedly adding 5 minutes to the overall length of the line and increasing weekday headway from 30 minutes to 32 minutes. My hope is that they reduce the San Marin station to exclusively weekend service after they open the upcoming Windsor and Petaluma North stations.

@BoardRestaurant

10 ай бұрын

Yes, good point.

@dkdoodle

7 ай бұрын

There are over 1100 houses that are going in right by the San Marin station soon, at the old Fireman’s Fund site. If those get built, that station could be useful to the folks there.

If I could imagine an optimal future for SMART it would be to send Caltrain under the golden gate and into Sausalito up to Larkspur then connect it to SMART and electrify the whole line.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

That would be a fantastic solution, however, with the current California budget shortfalls, and this being a very expensive project (full scale railroad under San Francisco and then under the Golden Gate) - compare the cost of the Central Subway, a much smaller project- and it's going to be a tough sell...

@williamcondon7729

Жыл бұрын

Not saying it’s not a tough sell, I just think it would make the most sense if they ever wanted to expand Caltrain past the Transbay terminal.

Something we should point out you aren't technically wrong it does use short 60 meter 2 car trains it stops for red lights at roads occasionally it makes frequent stop it and runs along an old right of way that said it is a high quality regional rail service. I say that having road it last week. Great train!

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it's a great train, definitions and semantics aside. I'm glad you enjoyed the ride and thanks for the feedback!

That darn bell again

This is needed in a lot more places. DMUs are quicker with starts & stops than loco-hauled trains, and can be built for "multi-mode" with overhead or third-rail electrical where available.

@BoardRestaurant

10 ай бұрын

You are correct, and the SMART train is a perfect example of a DMU-based system that's working very well.

Why is the train operating as a two-cars set?

@BoardRestaurant

10 ай бұрын

We traveled on a weekend service, but I believe that at least some of the weekday services use two DMUs coupled together.

Oh my god people!…who cares about the mode of generation. It’s about creating new pathways that are not car dependent. Over time, development will spark around the stations and they will become destinations themselves. Over time, battery tech will make the overhead wires unnecessary. Do you really want the wire infrastructure? This is like the bus vs. train argument. As long as in runs on it’s own path and don’t mix with cars, it does not matter the vehicle. However, they really need to create a better sense of place where the ferry is.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

Some way to bring the SMART train closer to the ferry terminal would be great, or at least better signage. As it is now, unless you know about this service, you're probably not going to find it.

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, battery trains are currently vaporware. They simply don't work. You can't pack enough batteries to make the train operate all day. You need 3x more trains that are constantly charging at the endpoints which is insanely expensive and just unnecessary. Eventually, all these train lines will need to be electrified properly. You just can't beat catenary. Not carrying heavy batteries or a redundant diesel engine will always be inferior to not carrying the extra weight. It's just physics.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

There is a concept that's being implemented in a few places where a battery EMU equipped with a pantograph charges at end stations, necessitating overhead wires only there, or during intermediate route sections that have catenary. The terminus turn times might have to be a bit longer, but with fast charging technology, not by much. And the range is increasing too, with the current SMART line length within the capability of a typical BEMU.

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

@@BoardRestaurant Theoretically, yes you can spec out an extremely expensive battery train that can cover the distance. But the charging times would be hours. You will forever be locked into a 5 trains per direction per day commuter pattern. And we already know that that type of service is an operational dead end. All the commuter railroads are actively trying to move away from that commuter pattern and into a regional rail pattern where they offer clockface scheduling with once per hour trains at the very least. You could also spec out charging infrastructure that charges faster but then you have to install that at all the termini. Anything is possible with enough money, but why would we pay more for a technology that is fundamentally worse than just stringing up some wires? This is a solution in search of a problem. We already have the optimal solution. We just need to bite the bullet and use it.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

I'm all for catenary. :-) However, there are technologies, such as in BEMUs or HEMUs (Hydrogen) that show potential future promise, when enough discovery and development takes place. Sometimes, however, it's just better to "bite the bullet" as you put it, string up some wires and go, instead of waiting. I'm eagerly awaiting the ride in a Stadler FLIRT between San Francisco and San Jose, hopefully in 2024. We rode that line in a Nippon Sharyo gallery car recently (video coming up shortly) and I think the electric FLIRTs will be a massive improvement.

I looked on Google Maps street view and there is absolutely no sign anywhere indicating the train line until you get right next to it. Nothing at all at that major intersection right between the ferry and the train. Really amazing level of dislike that voters have for public transit in the US.

@BoardRestaurant

10 ай бұрын

I wondered why that would be the case, as we struggled a bit to find the SMART station. It makes no sense to spend millions of dollars on the system, and then skimp hundreds on a few signs. And that's all that could make a difference, just a few signs strategically located where most of the ferry passengers walk by. Maybe, if enough people point this out, someone will finally authorize the signage to be added.

The Smart Train is not an Interurban train, it uses the right of way of the old Northwestern Pacific Railroad with replaced track. Interurban railroads are operated with electric overhead wires, an example of that is the old sacramento northern railroad which is now gone thats an Intururban railway smart is a diesel operated railway not electric.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. Yes, I agree with you that strictly speaking the SMART system is not an Interurban. However, as I mention at the end of the video, for me it has a vibe and feeling of those services. It is unique, and, maybe in the future, it will transition to electric running. If the Caltrain electrification is successful, then who knows, maybe the SMART service will benefit as well and become electrified.

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

I bet that if the interurbans weren't destroyed by the oil industry in the 60s then they would look like SMART does today! This is how that new rail line in Santa Cruz county could look like! It's something in between light rail and an actual commuter train. But the track and rolling stock are at normal freight rail standards and the trains can run in mixed rail traffic if necessary.

SMART is a cop-out. The only way the system makes sense is if it was part of BART, which was the original plan. I used to take that ferry and bicycle all over the county, but it's demeaning and not practical.

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

SMART is a step in the right direction. There is a new Richmond Bridge planned and that will have rail tracks. As soon as that is built, SMART will connect to BART and the Capitol Corridor at the Richmond BART station. We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good! Take the wins that are available and move forward with more future projects! Every little bit of transit makes it more practical to take transit today for more people and brings us closer to "transit critical mass". You can't avoid these intermediate steps. They are literally the building blocks that we need in order to get a good and complete system at some point in the future!

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

I used to come on business to Petaluma in the late 90's and the 2000's. I saw the railroad whither away along the 101 corridor and while sitting in traffic and wondered, if it could be made into a passenger system. Well, that happened, and I think it's great progress. There are always many ways to accomplish something, and, if we just debate the ways forever, nothing will ever get done.

I cannot for the life of me understand why SMART didn't electrify this line, especially given the shitshow they had acquiring these DMUs...

@TohaBgood2

Жыл бұрын

One reason, and I assume you already know what I will say. The NIMBYs were just barely defeated to build this project. The local Bay Area NIMBYs are extremely anti-electrification of anything. They opposed the electrification of Caltrain and very nearly won! They oppose the electrification of bus lines in SF even though SF already has a ton of those bus lines running as electric trolleys. Basically, the NIMBYs know that once a line is electrified it is very very hard to dismantle. So they oppose electrification as a last resort after the line is built so that it's easier to kill the line after the public stops paying attention. Marin county basically invented NIMBY-ism so they know exactly what they're doing.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

It's possible that the project would have died, if the additional cost of electrification was asked for from the get-go. As it is, the SMART train exists, and provides frequent and, what looked like to me, popular service. With increasing acceptance, ridership, and backing, maybe electrification will happen? An argument could be made to modify the existing DMUs to dual-mode (if they're diesel electric, which I think they are), rather than purchasing new equipment and absorbing yet more cost. And as you mention in another response, connecting this service to Richmond via a new bridge would open up vast new connection possibilities for the Bay Area. A reasonably quick trip from San Jose to the wine country along the east bay, or vice versa for the employment generators in south bay would be fabulous.

@chasemartin4450

Жыл бұрын

@@BoardRestaurant Sadly you're right about the NIMBYism nearly killing the project. Aren't their trainsets diesel-hydraulic, not diesel-electric? From what I read, they are basically diesel bus powertrains strapped to the bottom of rail carriages. Couldn't agree more on the need for rail to the North Bay! Oh how I wish Marin and Napa hadn't backed out of BART back in the day...

@chasemartin4450

Жыл бұрын

@@TohaBgood2 With how progressive California's government is, it shocks me that NIMBYism still has so much political power. Their beliefs can't be *that* popular, although those who espouse them tend to have a lot of money and are willing to spend it on candidates who won't implement zoning and eminent domain reform which makes NIMBYism a thing of the past. If you *really* don't want a train station in your neighborhood (why you wouldn't I don't know, that would make getting around very easy and convenient) fine, but you don't get to live off the tax dollars of urban residents while you bitch and scream to destroy piece of infrastructure which benefits their community.

@BoardRestaurant

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I checked and you're right about the Nippon Sharyo DMU transmission, it's a diesel-hydraulic system. So, never mind about any possible modifications to a dual-mode train.