Suggestion - I love to understand the difference between choosing preamps that are "full function-no sound change", or like this Class A, or a Tube preamp like the Musical Fidenlity - Schiit Freya. Also the difference between a passive or active preamp and a preamp vs linestage with gain. I think you can make a whole video just chatting about the different purposes and approach to match with gear.

Always enjoy your vids.

Thanks for the update. Agree we need a remote in 2023. It’s not that I’m lazy. I just like to get comfortable when I’m seriously listening to music and a preamp remote adds to my comfort. Need to make changes and adjustments as needed between songs without breaking the mood in my listening room.

@jungtarcph

6 ай бұрын

it is also better for "tuning" or "testing" and compare sund.

@iikatinggangsengii2471

5 ай бұрын

its not abt me, its kind of unethical lul, if i mindlessly queuing more devices

It seems the Bach, Musician and Denifrips preamps are all made in the same factory. A comparison would be interesting if there are sound differences or just rebadging.

@D1N02

6 ай бұрын

Hestia. But those are sold as class a pre-amps. Not r2r. Also musician has a different Body shape.

@andrewmccorkell652

5 ай бұрын

Add the topping Pre90 and Schitt Freya that would be an interesting comparison

@connorduke4619

5 ай бұрын

@@andrewmccorkell652 Topping Pre90 and Schitt Freya are a level below this company.

@carlitomelon4610

Ай бұрын

Very interested, however: WHY can't a microprocessor controlled volume control be setup with a BALANCE CONTROL feature?? Those of us with asymmetric hearing or room layouts are waiting for this feature! Maybe add the BALANCE CONTROL feature to the $50 remote control option? 🎵🎶🎶😮🎶🎵 PS Please review the MUSICAL PARADISE MP701mk2 the and capacitor rolling preamp. Loving mine! Looking for a neutral ss balanced pre for the balanced output of my Ares 12th. Seems I'm only using half of the Denafrips?

Interesting update. What is the best power amp match for Ladder Bach you have heard?

Thank you for posting.

I purchase this program and very happy with it I had a schiit preamp and sold it The high frequencies were not refined at all

@iiWiReviews

Ай бұрын

Glad to hear you like it. Enjoy the music. 🎶🎶

In reference to "decay", after a couple of years observing the audio scene after several decades of ignoring it, I've learned, along with a growing number of people, that the time element is just as important to satisfying hi fi as is tone.

@iiWiReviews

6 ай бұрын

Agree. It's a show of temporal resolution and low level deteil retrieval that makes sound more lifelike, less dry, and less tiring. However, it's not easily achieved and newcomers will probably think of it as just another audiophile mumbo jumbo.

@balooo2863

5 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviewscan you dim the device with the remote?

Seems like the Topping Pre 90 would be a better comparison but I'd really like to know about the Aune S-17 Pro as a speaker preamp. I've heard the class A warmth that everyone loves in the headphone amp does come through when used as a speaker preamp but would love to know your opinion especially as compared to the Ladder Bach.

@sean_heisler

6 ай бұрын

Headphone amp/preamp or not, the vast majority of solid state active preamps do run in class A regardless of price. Very few don't.

@Revan83

6 ай бұрын

Had the same question)) As I remember, Zeos said that Aune S17 Pro as a preamp sounds magic))

@TOMASittha108

5 ай бұрын

Topping Pre 90 is very not sounding unit

I run mine with a Ladder Schumann, 2 McIntosh Mc7100's in a vertically bi-amped configuration playing brand new Tannoy Cheviot. Yes, I have a remote. I think its a great non tube preamp.

@iiWiReviews

Ай бұрын

Very nice setup 👍

Wonderful review and keep up the good job. You reviews are very informative. I would like to get one but I am no sure if Schenzen Audio is reliable as there have been so many bad reviews. Does anyone have any feedback from Schenzen?

@Apocrypha303

7 күн бұрын

I bought the S.M.S.L. SU-1 from them in November 2023 and the Topping A70Pro from them in March 2024. They took two or three weeks to get to me (Colorado, US) which is expected when it's coming from China. Everything was well packaged, but I do fear things not working on arrival when it's coming from overseas. My SU-1 is still working 7 months later, and my preamp has worked fine these past several weeks.

Is this the same as the Denafrips Hestia preamp? It looks so much like it.

I bought this model with a remote, for what it’s worth and for me it has paired well with a Hypex Nilai power. Very happy with the performance, might even finally stop upgrading my hifi hardware. Maybe.

@Abhidadhia078

5 ай бұрын

What gain are you using on the amp?

@jonathanhart-sc6ix

5 ай бұрын

@@Abhidadhia078 the middle setting on the Nilai gave me equivalent volume to my previous power amps.

@Wharariki

5 ай бұрын

Hi have a very similar combo, Denafrips Athena + Nilai stereo power amp, very good indeed!

@Abhidadhia078

5 ай бұрын

@@Wharariki how’s your experience been with Nilai? I looking getting one however my speakers are efficient rated at 90 DB at 50W not sure how good Nilai will sound at low power

@Wharariki

5 ай бұрын

@@Abhidadhia078 my Focal Sopras are 89-90db/1watt/1metre and drop down to 4 ohms, drives them very well. Not quite sure what you refer by 90db at 50 watts. If you see the AVS review they rate the distortion best on the low gain setting (low, medium, high options) , so if you have very efficient speakers you could use that setting.

I wonder if a decent learning remote would work with the Ladder preamp?

Really appreciate not only your reviews but the music you feature that has turned me onto new music that I love. I have a couple suggestions for you. Check out anything from Hadouk Trio. Also, check out an album called Douo by Bertrand Renaudin and Oliver Cahours.

@iiWiReviews

6 ай бұрын

I like the Hadouk Trio already and I'll check the others. 👍

Will be on my short list.

Hello! Compared to Aune S17 Pro purely as a preamp, which sounds best according to your opinion?

Thanx Man!

Srboljub, you seem to be the primary reviewer for Ladder products. Did you ever get a manual for the Schumann DAC? I ordered mine last year, based mostly on your review. Mine came in a generic plain brown box with no manual or manufacturer information. You did say that your copy did not come with a manual. I was hoping one would be available at a later date. Do you plan on reviewing the Ladder Boya DDC? I'd like to upgrade from the $60 Douk DDC that I am currently using but I don't want to buy another device that does not have manual. And, I need to know if the I2S output on the Boya is configurable. Thanks. I use the Douk DDC to clean up the USB output from my source. However I can't use the I2S output from the DDC because the left and right channels are swapped compared to the I2S input on the Schumann, so I am using the optical input instead. That is why I am considering an upgrade to the Boya.

@iiWiReviews

6 ай бұрын

Hi Keith, I didn't have a chance to try Boya but it's safe to say that it is internally the same device as Denafrips Iris and Musician Pisces... So if you can find any info about any of these it should be the same. BTW, I'm getting my Ladder devices from the ShenzhenAudio online shop and I have no direct contact to anyone at Ladder. I checked some 6 months after the release of the Schuman DAC there was no manual. Bach arrived in a plane brown box without a manual too and as you can see it was launched without a remote. It feels like there's a serious lack of organisation and that final touch. I hope they'll get their stuff together quickly because products appear to be top notch, both in terms of build and sound quality.

@keithjohnson2863

6 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviews Thanks Srboljub, I appreciate your prompt response. I will look for reviews regarding the Musician Pisces and Denafrips Iris.

Volume leveling in roon is great especially if upsampling.

Thanks! The A90D has some significant problems (judging by some measurements), so I would be much more interested in comparing it with the A70 Pro (which you also had in your review, and which has the most perfect measurements that I have ever seen), or at least with the L70 (which also does not have any technical problems), or at least with the Pre90 (which, judging by measurements, is close to the L70, although noticeably inferior in crosstalk).

From your experience, does driving both pairs of outputs degrade the sound or mess with the balanced signal? From what I've gathered, the outputs on this are not independently buffered.

Hello, Thanks for your honest updates. As I can not audition the product like yo take your help on it. I have a Dali Opticon 6 and driving it via Emotiva XPA2. Can you suggest, if I use Ladder Bach as pre to my analog sources and power is via XPA 2 to Dali will I get the nice sound stage? My preference in sound will be mostly vocals with nice drums and big low end ( bass heavy ). I listen a lot of piano and violin as well, kinda all round. I felt Dali + Emotiva is not giving enough low end ( but could be source too ), wanted to add a pre to have the warm side on it. I use CXNV2 as a Dac for your reference. Thanks in advance!!

@michaelwright1602

2 ай бұрын

Well, I would skip the Ladder Bach and go with a Schiit Freya S or their new Kara. I had the Denafrips Hades, which is darn near identical to this LB. And I still own my Emotiva XPA2, which I did use with my Denafrips and the Schiit Freya S, which I wish I never would have sold. The XPA2 and the Schiit were a good match. The Hades came off as rather veiled, almost muddy. Another good one, and my favorite right now, is the PS Audio Stellar Gaincell DAC/Preamp. They can be found on the used market for around that $800. This is a very clean sounding Class A biased preamp with a fantastic DAC that is not fatiguing in the least. What are you using for a DAC?

@SoumyaMaitra2008

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelwright1602 thanks for your reply and expecting another communication with you. Well I made a choice of going towards Rotel 1572MK ll as preamplifier. I am driving my Dalis via Marantz SR6015 DAC (Spotify / Tidal) to 1572MKII to XPA2 via XLR. I much say the sound stage and doubled and detailed a lot. I could not audition Freya so went to 1572 that had a lot of reputations. I was planning to introduce CXN V2 or newer as DAC. Any thoughts will be welcome hugely!

@michaelwright1602

2 ай бұрын

@@SoumyaMaitra2008 I owned the CXN V2 and really liked the sound out of the DAC. If you do purchase, one thing to warn you about, when using the XLR outputs to your Rotel, do not use the vacant RCA outputs on the CXN V2 to run other gear like subwoofers. Doing that will cause the volume of the CXN V2 to spike, and I mean blow a speaker SPIKE. Use the outputs on the Rotel for the subs, which I am assuming you will do, just a heads up if you get tempted with those those RCA connections on the CXN V2 when using the XLR outputs. Use one or the other, do not use both, even though Cambridge says you can. What I did not care for on the CXN V2 was the streaming side, it worked of course, but did not give me the flexibility of say the WiiM Pro. But, I think you will enjoy the internal DAC of the Cambridge over the Marantz. Hope this helps. And I would recommend the CXN V2, especially now with the newer version that is out. Find a nice gently used one and save a few quid. ;-)

hahaha, you nailed it realy,...."and it works",..totaly agree, somhove doesn't fit into my had how this is even being sold without remote option, but what ever, Thx for the review I can shorlist now this one as well and come back to oreginal review

Thanks for the video. Do you ever do higher-end stuff? I would like to see preamps below $5000 or $3000 Like Hegel P20 or P30 or even the Denafrips Athena. Interested in knowing what you get for all that extra money sound wise and what % improvements you hear. Thanks.

@iiWiReviews

6 ай бұрын

I'll soon review an Acoustic Invader Fulcrum preamp that is €6300 and that I purchased a year ago. I didn't review it sooner because I didn't have a good and well known reference to compare it too. But recently I had a chance to listen the EAR 868 next to it so it will make for an interesting video I belive.

@Pete.across.the.street

6 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviews nice, i look forward to it. Thanks for responding.

Hello Srboljub, what battery the remote control uses? I received a remote control and pre amp without any documentation. I don't know if is a vendor's mistake or manufacture. Thak you for your help and support. Yashin

@iiWiReviews

5 ай бұрын

It uses CR2032

Love the Bass Room record. Notably the musician is named Princip and shares his name with the Serb who shot Arch Duke Ferdinand and started WWI. No relation I'm sure.

Looks like the Denafrips Hestia/Hades... So does the remote. Made in the same factory? My Hades, which I sold off, and their Athena too, sounded rather veiled, no dynamics with hard to drive speakers. And it was not much better with sensitive speakers, though an improvement. If the LB is anything like the Denafrips, I would pass.

Any chance tou could get your hands on a gustard p26 to review, would be interesting to see how it compares to this and theres no reviews online 🤦

Can you reverse the in and outputs? Or is there any other recommend preamp with 1x in and 2x out?

@iiWiReviews

6 ай бұрын

No you can't do that.

anyone knows how do you open the cover/lid? i have unscrewed it all without luck.

How does the S17 Pro compare to the Ladder Bach as a preamp?

@shaunyweaver1144

6 ай бұрын

I have the Aune my friend has the Ladder, he prefers mine and so do I

@petermartin9494

6 ай бұрын

@@shaunyweaver1144 THANK YOU!!! I really appreciate that.

@phetmoz

5 ай бұрын

​@@shaunyweaver1144 So a dedicated preamp such as Ladder Bach is outperformed by a headamp with a preamp function? Sounds like you get 2 FULL-fledged products when you buy an Aune S17 Pro. If that is true, it is simply amazing amazing value and one of the best products ever perhaps. Minus the heating and volume control issues I've read about on Headfi.

@iiWiReviews do you get pops/clicks noise from the speakers when changing volume on the Bach?

@iiWiReviews

5 ай бұрын

No, just those relay clicks from the preamp itself.

@user-xh5ge1bq5m

4 ай бұрын

Remote does not include a battery anyone know what type of battery it uses?

What is a single crystal copper transformer? What is R2R output?

@gettcharged4982

Ай бұрын

OCC copper, ladder resistor volume

Don't let electrical engineers make marketing decisions.

Hi, I hope you are well. I would love some advice if you would be so kind? I am considering buying the ladder preamplifier and dac. Would you think this combination would be a good accompaniment for line magnetic 2161a kt88 amp? Thanks for your kind consideration.

@iiWiReviews

3 ай бұрын

DAC and preamp are a good match between each other in my opinion. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with that amplifier and how would it click with these two.

@alanwilkinson4080

3 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviews thanks to much for your kind response. If I go ahead I will let you know! Take care.

@michaelwright1602

2 ай бұрын

Give Audio GD a look, their R28 DAC/Preamp. I would also highly recommend the PS Audio Stellar Gaincell DAC. They are available on the used market for around $800. I have mine paired with a Cayin EL-84 tube amp running Zu DW6 Supreme speakers. My buddy has the Audio GD R28 and swears by it. He also owns the Gaincell. I know the PS Audio unit and tubes play extremely well together. I am not sure how an R2R DAC will sound, as I had the Denafrips Ares II and their Venus II 12th. The PS Audio unit replaced both, as I found the R2R DACs veiled and not as detailed as the PS Audio. What I found interesting about the PS Audio, is that it is an ESS based chip DAC, and I have a tough time with these chip based DACs, fatigue sets in quickly. The reason I went R2R... The PS Audio Gaincell has a Class A bias, and does not sound sterile or digital say like a Topping or SMSL can. It has a very Class A sound to it, big soundstage, instrument separation, clean dynamics, just overall it does everything right. Amir and his crew trashed it, I look at that as a badge of honor. ;-)

@alanwilkinson4080

Ай бұрын

@@michaelwright1602 Thanks so much for the suggestions! I will investigate - presently residing in China - hence my interest in the Ladder products! Take care and best wishes,

My ladder Schumann works with remote from unison Research Simply Italy and Preludio, some functions I could on and off. Maybe this remote also can work with Schumann🤔

@iiWiReviews

5 ай бұрын

That's new to me. It seems that Ladder products all have secret remote controls.😄 I can only imagine this remote would work for it too.

@rogdar5767

5 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviews I believe this is the case, maybe I will buy this remote control if the store confirms that it actually works with Schumann.

Now everyone will say "But Srboljub you didn't compare it to to Aune S17 pro as a pre-amp" we want to know about that. The remote looks serious, you could use it against burglars trying to steal your gear.

@elbebe1000

6 ай бұрын

Yes, looks great and Its a great weapon

I can't help but note that pre-amp looks a lot like the Denafrips line of pre-amps - Hades for example, especially the display screen. Even the aluminum remote is Denafrips like. I don't know, but it definitely looks a rebadged Denafrips Pre-amp with some "slight" cometic changes - knobs here are flatter where Denafrips are near half-moons. I don't know, maybe it's me.

@michaelwright1602

2 ай бұрын

No, it is not you. I owned the Denafrips Hades, looks very similar.

if you play with more headphone amps I think you will find that a headphone amp makes a better preamp than most active preamps; especially driving long cables and in general to lessen the sonic differences of different cables. I would go so far as to say that if a particular headphone amp sounds bad as a preamp, its a bad headphone amp.

Would your endgame diy dac overload this preamp?

@iiWiReviews

4 ай бұрын

No, they worked just fine together.

@Phloored

4 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviews that's good news. Thank you brother.

I bought one of these over a month ago. It sounds great but I've experienced a minor issue and wanted to ask if anyone else has experienced it with the ladder bach, or another R2R pre-amp. Occasionally, the volume clicks up or down 1 step completely on its own after I adjust the volume (up if the volume was increased, down if decreased), which might happen after just a few minutes, or several hours later. I messaged Shenzhen about it, and they said their engineers were trying to reproduce the issue on their end, but haven't heard anything back since. Because the pre-amp seems to be working fine otherwise, I haven't pressed the issue further. Has anyone else experienced something similar? Does anyone with more expertise have an idea about the root cause of this issue? Does it indicate a serious problem, or is this normal for R2R pre-amps?

@iiWiReviews

Ай бұрын

Hi. I haven't experienced that with my unit but I belive I saw something similar on a headphone amp once. I never gave it much tought since that volume step is so small that it doesn't really change much if it clicks. I have some OCD-leaning friends that would be bothered by it, but if it doesn't cause any bigger issues I'm just not. As far as engineers trying to reproduce your problem... These things can truly be difficult to reproduce for warranty claim. I'm speakings with some experience here since I used to work at maintenance and repair lab for few years. But back to HiFi, for example, my friend had some problems with Hegel amp having hickups with display at his home, but when I bought it from him (that same unit) it never had them at my place. Later we found out Hegel internal electronics is sensitive to DC component in the power distribution network. The only way for him to solve it was to use DC blocker on the power line. I never needed it in my place. Because of all this I avoid pulling the warranty card unless problem is of a certain magnitude that it presents a problem for me. But that threshold is personal thing I suppose.

@AAKozyrenko

Ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviews Thank you for clarifying. I did pop the hood on the bach a week ago and took a quick look at the board under a magnifier. Visually, there didn't appear to be any poor soldering joints or shorted legs, so perhaps time will reveal whether there further attention is needed. I suspect it may just be an issue with the IR remote, because I've noticed some quirks with its transmission on-axis vs off-axis from the receiver. I also see that iFi sells a DC offset filter for IEC plugs, so maybe I'll try one out. I do have several wall-wart powered devices in my chain.

I hope receive this pre amp in next couple of weeks. I bought it based in Srboljub review.

Just add HDMI, Coax x2, Optical x2, XLR and RCA Sub Out, Bass Management and a good DAC and it would be perfect ; )

Looks like the Musician Monoceros.

@petermartin9494

6 ай бұрын

And the Denafrips whatever.

@phetmoz

5 ай бұрын

Same products, different names.

I can not stand its distracting clicking noise. I will not take it unless is a gift, because is producing such a HORRIBLE clicking noise on every volume adjusting. I would try to place the PCB board on some dumping spacers to reduce the noise transfer to the chassis and even then probably sell it or give to some one else.

Love your videos! Which Preamp in your opinion would go well and/or enhance Orchard Audio AKM chip DAC? Acoustic Invader Preamp or LADDER Bach Preamp or none? Thanks!

@iiWiReviews

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for your support! To my ears adding a good preamp, which both of these are, only improves dynamics and soundstaging. Orchard Audio DAC is very transparent but I belive that any of these preamp would add more meat on its bones and make it sound bolder and more pleasent. Acoustic Invader has slightly warmer sound and bigger soundstage - I prefer it personally and I belive it should compliment Orchard DAC very nice. Ladder Bach probably has more neutral tuning but it does sound a touch leaner tonally, and with a touch narrower soundstage. So in absolute terms, I do prefer Acoustic Invader, but the difference is not huge, and given that Acoustic Invader is some 50% pricier... I find Ladder Bach to be a worthy alternative.

@FukemStudios

2 ай бұрын

@@iiWiReviewsThanks! I'm thinking of going full Acoustic Invader. I sent you an Email.😀

What amp should I use it with? Is ladder going to release an amp?