King John and Magna Carta: Democracy's Unlikely Origins

Magna Carta, the great charter issued by King John of England in 1215, is often cited as a core, foundational document of modern democracy. By contrast, King John who is regarded as one of England's worst kings (there has never been a John II) had no intention whatsoever of making monarchy constitutional. John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place will look at what King John and his nobles thought they were signing up for with Magna Carta.

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  • @trudojo
    @trudojo2 жыл бұрын

    This is gold. I have never heard this story from so many perspectives at the same time. Thank you.

  • @Roctrin
    @Roctrin2 жыл бұрын

    Dude, how in the world do you have the time and energy to constantly make all these lectures?

  • @nathanielpea5819

    @nathanielpea5819

    2 жыл бұрын

    Wow dude like, erm, maybe, and this is just me guessing dude but like maybe yeah, maybe it's his job and he gets paid well for it? Like I don't know yeah, so like, maybe like, you know dude like maybe I'm wrong yeah. Idk

  • @philipwarren30

    @philipwarren30

    Жыл бұрын

    p

  • @davidbauer8800
    @davidbauer88002 жыл бұрын

    Would really enjoy a lecture on the Law of the Commons much more than the Magna Carta - the entire playlist is a gem...

  • @ignominius3111
    @ignominius31112 жыл бұрын

    I so enjoy your lectures Professor. And believe me as an old Professor myself. It takes a lot to hold my attention. Your pedagogy is top notch. But doesn’t this video need editing out of the off title segments?

  • @riekiemitchell9651
    @riekiemitchell96512 жыл бұрын

    Simply fan-tas-tic as always. Thank you

  • @diverguy3556
    @diverguy35562 жыл бұрын

    Whenever I see Magna Carta, I am reminded of the following quote by legendary British comedian Tony Hancock: "Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain? Brave Hungarian peasant girl who forced King John to sign the pledge at Runnymede and close the boozers at half past ten! Is all this to be forgotten?" Always makes me smile.

  • @glenn-younger
    @glenn-younger2 жыл бұрын

    Once again, a huge thank you for this walk through history. If you ever feel like walking us through time STARTING at the Magna Carta and tracing the events up to today and how it has shaped our laws-a big request, I know!-that would be AMAZING.

  • @benjammin4840
    @benjammin48402 жыл бұрын

    Thank you! Great as always!

  • @tombouie
    @tombouie2 жыл бұрын

    Thks & your video/computer is awesome too. Pls ?Could explain his workflow & his setup? Oh, he could call it the Gospel of Church Video Production for the Laymen ;)

  • @ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095
    @ansfridaeyowulfsdottir80952 жыл бұрын

    According to the UK Parliament web site, there are actually *FOUR* clauses of Magna Carta still in force. You have conflated clauses 39 and 40. 1 (part) _"The English Church shall be free, and shall have her rights entire, and her liberties inviolate."_ 13 _"And the city of London is to have all its ancient liberties and free customs, both on land and water. Moreover we wish and grant that all other cities, boroughs, towns and ports are to have all their liberties and free customs"_ 39 _"No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land."_ 40 _“To no one will we sell, to no one will we deny or delay right or justice.”_ So you could summarise them as: Freedom of the Church of England Freedoms of all cities, boroughs, towns and ports Due process of law (leading to trial by jury) Justice shall not be sold or delayed. Or swift justice, with no bribery {:-:-:} _(Edited for tyops)_

  • @USA50_
    @USA50_2 жыл бұрын

    Great lecture. Big fan!

  • @asabovesobelow5683
    @asabovesobelow568311 ай бұрын

    Your lectures are awesome. If I ever come there it is a must to sit through one. I dont think I can travel there though because I didnt get the covid vaccine.

  • @petervogwill6499
    @petervogwill64992 жыл бұрын

    Listening to this lecture...reminds us THAT HISTORY IS FOLLY RICH...AND WE HAVE OUR OWN U DOING TO WRITE ABOUT

  • @xFavi0VallejoSx
    @xFavi0VallejoSx2 жыл бұрын

    This is for my homework 😎

  • @nathangale7702
    @nathangale77022 жыл бұрын

    Great lecture! I've always wondered why John got such a bad reputation, I never thought his crimes seemed especially heinous for the time period.

  • @WayneBraack
    @WayneBraack2 жыл бұрын

    Question. I've heard it said that if the Queen of England and Great Britain etc wanted to she could dissolve parliament and take over control. But the reason that that's not done is it's considered better to have parliament in the will of the people, that is a better overall for the people and therefore the country. Does anyone know if that's true? Can someone from the emerald isles that may watch this or anyone who actually knows more about this than I do answer that question? Please and thank you.

  • @drifty_grifty

    @drifty_grifty

    2 жыл бұрын

    The Emerald Isle is Ireland not Britain. The Queen can dissolve parliament as well as pause it along with some other arcane powers, most of which are now vested in the prime minister (such as proroguing as happened in 2019 in much controversy). It's highly unlikely these would ever be used.

  • @Rutibex
    @Rutibex2 жыл бұрын

    I want to see you do a lecture about Robin Hood

  • @markrossow6303
    @markrossow63032 жыл бұрын

    the Timeline show did a down-the-rabbit hole on the Real Robin Hood -- there are a few candidates, during different kings -- it is on KZread

  • @johnmichaelcule8423
    @johnmichaelcule84232 жыл бұрын

    Actually, those English princes called Arthur that actually got close to inheriting the throne didn't end up well. King John killed off one of them (Arthur of Britanny, supposedly blinded, castrated and then killed) and the other was Arthur Prince of Wales who was Henry VIII's elder brother and the first husband of Henry's first wife, Catherine of Aragon. You may recall the complex set of events that the special permission the Pope gave to Henry to marry his brother's widow gave rise to, especially the bit we call the Church of England.

  • @alanpennie8013
    @alanpennie80132 жыл бұрын

    The legend of King Arthur quickly became the common possession of Europe but it was especially associated with Brittany. So it was astute of Geoffrey, an interloper, to christen his son Arthur and so associate himself and his house with this tradition.

  • @friendo6257

    @friendo6257

    2 жыл бұрын

    Weren’t several of the knights in his court Normans? Sounds pretty French to me.

  • @alanpennie8013

    @alanpennie8013

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@friendo6257 The relationship between Brittany and France during The Middle Ages was complicated...

  • @mrtulipeater
    @mrtulipeater2 жыл бұрын

    Realizing that this may be a piece of Langley’s mind uploaded to a Lone Gunman backup server.

  • @zipperpillow
    @zipperpillowАй бұрын

    Love this dude. Fuk yer scissors. Love your break-downs. Thank you, thank you.

  • @gerry343
    @gerry3432 жыл бұрын

    14:20 Today Barbados became a republic, 30 November 2021.

  • @nathanielpea5819
    @nathanielpea58192 жыл бұрын

    Webster Tarpley does a nice essay about the this, because of course the contract was drawn up under duress. The king was held at swordpoint. Under basic contract law no contract made under duress or threat is valid. He also points out that the contract applied to robber barons. Not the serfs they owned. Yes, shock horror! Serf is just a word for slave, albeit not chattel slavery. More a type of indentured servitude. Basically the Noble and enlightened document hailed as the foundation of Western law and freedom etc is nothing of the sort. Like so much we are taught it's utter guff. I will listen to this piece at some point, just to hear a different perspective on those I am already familiar with, seeing as I live in the oligarchy it originates from.

  • @marcosambrosino
    @marcosambrosino Жыл бұрын

    I am simply amazed. Very, very interesting! It brought me a new, yet less important, view of this really important document. A big greeting from Brazil!!!

  • @Mihilomusical
    @Mihilomusical4 ай бұрын

    Western Democracy was founded in the Kingdom of León (Spain) in 1188 (UNESCO)

  • @miguelpatrickperezcontrera4123
    @miguelpatrickperezcontrera41232 жыл бұрын

    🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

  • @davidhallett8783
    @davidhallett87832 жыл бұрын

    25 28 MEANWHILE. Back in england

  • @Mihilomusical
    @Mihilomusical4 ай бұрын

    You mean democracy in England. The first documented Parliament was in Spain in 1181 (UNESCO)

  • @MichaeldeSousaCruz
    @MichaeldeSousaCruz2 жыл бұрын

    This is a great lecture, but imagine if you changed every instance of “to pay for” with “to resource”. It’s the resources that matter, not the “money”.

  • @TorianTammas
    @TorianTammas2 жыл бұрын

    Democracy is a construction of greek words. So it started all in Greece. The attic democracy is from the 6th century BC. This was 1800 years before the magna in which Lords limited the power of the king.

  • @paulrhome6164

    @paulrhome6164

    2 жыл бұрын

    The Romans claimed (conveniently) to have their Republic in place one year before Athens, but neither has a better claim to being the origin of modern democracy than Magna Carta. America and other modern democracies may draw inspiration and architectural style from the classic ones, but there is no line of tradition from one to the other. This may have been a tiny step that affected few, but it was a fundamental step in the actual legal tradition which led to modern democracy.

  • @drifty_grifty

    @drifty_grifty

    2 жыл бұрын

    The limitation of the powers of monarchs in a legal framework is arguably more important to modern Anglo governments than the right to ballot for representatives, which is actually quite a limited power in most Constitutions.

  • @TorianTammas

    @TorianTammas

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@drifty_grifty It is only relevant for an aristocracy. As in a democracy all the Power comes from the people and there is no one but people.

  • @jtzoltan

    @jtzoltan

    2 жыл бұрын

    @Shnoogans that wasn't in the lecture's scope, though he has many other lectures.

  • @jtzoltan

    @jtzoltan

    2 жыл бұрын

    @Shnoogans you said "why did the lecturer not even preface the lecture with the origins of a representational democracy" which I took to mean more detail than "it began in Greece"... Who the hell doesn't already know that in Western history, democracy began in Greece? I think you're reading too much into this and assuming bad faith on his part. He has lectures covering Greek and Roman times, it's not like he neglects the subject on his platform.

  • @MichaeldeSousaCruz
    @MichaeldeSousaCruz2 жыл бұрын

    These obligations are not “to make money”, it is to establish and maintain social power relationships. Think about it, the sovereign determines what satisfies the payment of the obligation, and even provides the means of payment of the obligation with tally stick, paper, coin, goods and services.

  • @nosuchthing8
    @nosuchthing8 Жыл бұрын

    I thought the Greeks had some form of democracy

  • @ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095
    @ansfridaeyowulfsdottir80952 жыл бұрын

    01:23:38 I wish he would not let the bozos in the audience spoil these talks. They never ask questions, they just try to show off by talking drivel. {:o:O:}

  • @petervogwill6499
    @petervogwill64992 жыл бұрын

    Thanks NWO... for nothing ....hmmm

  • @igotnoname4557
    @igotnoname45577 ай бұрын

    It's a little hard to take documents written before block type seriously...even if they are. Just my stupid American thought.

  • @keedt
    @keedt2 жыл бұрын

    perhaps it's unlikely because it's not true

  • @Menaceblue3
    @Menaceblue32 жыл бұрын

    Magna Carta wasn't the only thing that grew western/anglo-sphere liberty and freedoms....

  • @friendo6257

    @friendo6257

    2 жыл бұрын

    What else? I’m not saying you’re wrong but interested in what those other things are.

  • @dorianphilotheates3769
    @dorianphilotheates37692 жыл бұрын

    Magna Carta had nothing to do with “democracy” - that’s a preposterous proposition.

  • @grahamfreeman2252

    @grahamfreeman2252

    2 жыл бұрын

    It is the first formalized step to remove some aspects of the absolute monarchy enjoyed by kings up until that time. It transferred some of the power away from the king to the "people" (only to the barons at this point). Therefore it was a small step along the road toward the power moving from the king to the people and as such it is one of the origins of democracy.

  • @dorianphilotheates3769

    @dorianphilotheates3769

    2 жыл бұрын

    Graham Freeman - I realize that this is the proffered narrative for the Westminster model, but sorry, I just don’t buy it. It was not Magna Carta that was the incipient step for English parliamentarianism. The formation of the bicameral system - and especially the rising preeminence of the Commons - was the direct result of revolution and socioeconomic change originating from the bottom up: the Peasants’ Rebellion, the gradual rise of capitalism and the recession of the feudal system, the immediate aftermath of the English Civil War, and finally, the emergence of the Industrial Age.

  • @friendo6257

    @friendo6257

    2 жыл бұрын

    Even if the goal of the people involved was not to bring about democracy, if it kicked off a movement that resulted in democracy, it has SOMETHING to do with democracy. If less hyperbolic your position might be valid.

  • @dorianphilotheates3769

    @dorianphilotheates3769

    2 жыл бұрын

    Avant Gourd - Nice try.

  • @wesbaumguardner8829
    @wesbaumguardner88292 жыл бұрын

    Democracy is a Greek concept that predates the Magna Carta by over a thousand years.

  • @grahamfreeman2252

    @grahamfreeman2252

    2 жыл бұрын

    You are right but the Greek concept of democracy was viewed as just a historical novelty. The argument here is that the Magna Carta was the first step on the road that we are still on and therefore is one of the origins of the democracy we know today.

  • @wesbaumguardner8829

    @wesbaumguardner8829

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@grahamfreeman2252 I'm not sure which country you are in, but I am in the United States and we do not have democracy here. We have a constitutional Republic, at least on paper. In actuality we have a fascist/socialist hybrid government masquerading as a constitutional Republic. The central bank, bureaucracies, and large corporations have all the power while the common man is bled dry through monetary debasement, perpetual warfare, and several layers of taxation while the elites pay little to no taxes at all and spend currency created out of thin air into existence like they earned it. Only lip service is paid to the constitution.

  • @grahamfreeman2252

    @grahamfreeman2252

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@wesbaumguardner8829 I live in New Zealand. Queen Elizabeth II is queen of New Zealand and is our head of state. We use mixed member proportional representation to elect members of parliament and the total number of MPs a party has in parliament is proportional to their percent of the vote. Our system is not perfect but everyones vote counts (as long as the party you vote for gets over 5%). In general people trust the government and as an indication of this we have followed it's advice as regards vaccinations for covid with 90% of people over 12 double vaccinated. I have written all of the above to give you some idea of my mind-set and how that frames my view of the Magna Carta.

  • @wesbaumguardner8829

    @wesbaumguardner8829

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@grahamfreeman2252 There is no such thing as a representative government. A person whom is being governed is not being represented and a person whom is being represented is not being governed. It is impossible to both represent and govern a person at the same time. Furthermore, it is impossible for a person to represent two people with opposing positions at the same time, much less thousands or millions of people with opposing interests. In truth, any government only represents itself and a small minority of wealthy and influential people. The rest, it dominates. You should have less faith in politicians and monarchs. The Magna Carta was created to curb the power of England's monarch over the nobility, but it still left the commoners in practically the same position as before; serfs of the nobility. As for the vaccines, they are not safe. A recent study has shown a marked increase in myocarditis for people that received the second dose compared to a control group. A Swedish study has also shown that the spike protein of the vaccine can interfere with genetic repair within the nucleus of a cell.

  • @grahamfreeman2252

    @grahamfreeman2252

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@wesbaumguardner8829 I am sorry I have made you angry with me. When I replied to your comment I didn't mean it as a criticism rather I was only offering my thoughts for you and others to consider. Please try to forget we ever had this exchange.

  • @perniciouspete4986
    @perniciouspete49862 жыл бұрын

    Prof, you really need to get a haircut. This isn't the "60"s.

  • @friendo6257

    @friendo6257

    2 жыл бұрын

    😬

  • @InTheRhettRow

    @InTheRhettRow

    Жыл бұрын

    imagine telling a grown man what to do with his hair.

  • @peterthompson6651
    @peterthompson66512 жыл бұрын

    This man doesn't understand the Magna Carta, it was only for free men, and those free men were the Baron's (nobility) not for the masses and it applies today. Just look when supreme court judge Antonin Scalia said to a committee of senators, the constitution simply doesn't apply, why? Not one of those senators asked him why it does apply in their courts. Simple answer, it only applies to free men, and not people who give up their inalienable, immutable God-given rights, by becoming a citizen, and accepting becoming a "person". Man/Woman created by the father in heaven, the person (assumed character) created by Man. A person is an image of man/Woman and an artificial entity, and only exist on paper, or if you believe you are a person, then you wish it into existence of your own free will. King James Bible Acts 10:34 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. The father in heaven doesn't want you living in some man-made creation, and Peter became aware of what the Latin word persona means by its definition. I live six miles from Warwick castle where the Earl of Warwick was known as the kingmaker, and six miles from Kenilworth castle where the siege of Kenilworth, also known as the great siege of 1266, was a six-month siege of Kenilworth castle and a battle of the Second Barons War. The siege was part of an English civil war fought from 1264-1267 by the forces of Simon De Montfort against the Royalist forces led by Prince Edward. The siege was one of few castle attacks to take place during the war. They finally surrendered on 13 December 1266 and accepted the terms of the "Dictum of Kenilworth," which later became part of the "Statutes of Marlborough. These Barons were the only free men, most were serfs and had no rights whatsoever, you either lived and work for a Baron who serve his people on his land well or not, and they exploited even the ruthless ones that the king was worse than them if you didn't believe the one's who treated you badly, you became a royalist, or if you believe your baron was a good or should I say honourable Man you would back him up and be willing to die in battle for him. Yet anyone who knows their Bible would know you own what you create, and in the King James Bible in Genesis 1:9 it will tell you who owns the land and gave it to all of mankind. In Exodus 20 it tells you who's the law to follow, and that's called the law of the land. The Lord God bless you with the ability to think for yourselves, but few do, he gave you life to be free, and have the freedom of free will. The majority give it up by becoming a citizen, and as the good book tells us you can't serve two masters. They are easily fooled by honeyed words and obey the wrong master, You are numbered, whether it's a marriage licence, passport, birth certificate, death certificate, national insurance number, etc, they all have numbers on them on bonded paper, bonded as in slave. You become easily fooled because you don't understand by your ignorance, in your failure to understand the grammar of the language you use and that capitalise lettering is saying nothing in English whether it's uppercase or lowercase or a mixture of both, you fall for it hook, line and sinker. You put your faith in man, instead of the one who gave you life, and accept man's laws, madness. You have the freedom to contract unlimited, yet you give it all up to become a legal fiction artificial entity called a person, with no immutable, inalienable rights and accept duties and privileges, madness. The creator laws are never changing, set in stone so to speak, yet man's so-called laws are forever changing, even to the point they get you to kill for them, start thinking for yourselves and wake up.

  • @ghost-user559

    @ghost-user559

    2 жыл бұрын

    You are just as lost as those persons. You understand that everything is going to be utterly destroyed on this earth and the Heavens and earth will be rolled up like a scroll and cast into the fire? What good will your knowledge do you then? And can you prevent death by way of the Law? “Do not love the world or the things of the world. Whosoever loveth the world or the things of the world, the love of the Father is not found in him.” And “Whosoever loveth his life shall lose it, but whosoever loseth his life for my name’s sake shall gain everlasting life.”

  • @peterthompson6651

    @peterthompson6651

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@ghost-user559 ?

  • @ghost-user559

    @ghost-user559

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@peterthompson6651 In other words what you say is true but what does it matter? Does that information actually free a man, or make for many hours of study, with the same world outside your window at the end of it? What is written must be fulfilled. I have now seen many people who have spent hundreds of hours on this subject, none is freer or any wiser.

  • @alexisbonilla5942

    @alexisbonilla5942

    2 жыл бұрын

    You are correct in what you say. This man´s job is to confuse the masses and not to teach truth. Unfortunately people´s ignorance won´t allow them to do anything with the good information you have shared. Their minds are barren, full of rocks and thorns, so nothing will grow there. Those who do not seek truth are ipso facto enslaved, and have no opportunity to fulfill their life´s purpose.

  • @ghost-user559

    @ghost-user559

    2 жыл бұрын

    @@alexisbonilla5942 The man clearly does not know the truth, so how can he teach it? All he has been taught is lies. However knowing what you call truth also does not free a man, so then it is not the whole truth. Can you do what you must unrestrained even with that knowledge? No, you will be eliminated faster than the ignorant masses, because you stand out against them even more defiantly. There are no legal protections once you are outside the Law, and no recourse whatsoever for any individual who is not registered to their systems. What do you propose for people to do with this information? Do you actually think it does anything to undo a battle that has been lost centuries even millennia ago?

  • @slibertas1996
    @slibertas19962 жыл бұрын

    The Bible is more foundational than Magna Carta. The Bible helped led to Magna Carta

  • @TorianTammas

    @TorianTammas

    2 жыл бұрын

    The word democracy comes from dêmos '(common) people' and krátos 'force/might'.Under Cleisthenes, what is generally held as the first example of a type of democracy in 508-507 BC was established in Athens. Cleisthenes is referred to as "the father of Athenian democracy". I have no idea where you can fit some bronze age tribal storytelling in here.

  • @friendo6257

    @friendo6257

    2 жыл бұрын

    How so?