In the mid-1980s I trained as a sound engineer with the BBC (at the Engineering Training Centre at Wood Norton in Evesham, and Television Centre on Wood Lane, London). I love Danny’s videos and passion but I’m not going to lie, I haven’t got a clue what Danny is talking about half of the time! I worked every day with Rogers LS5/9s, LS5/8s (and their matching Quad amps), LS3/5s, ATC monitors, and the finest quality recording and broadcast sound desks and signal chains in the UK. I was also introduced to a couple of useful psychoacoustic concepts that render 90% of audiophile lore redundant: 1. Buy the speakers that YOU like the sound of. Each of us has a unique head related transfer function. We all hear things differently. The variance between us can be significant. So don’t listen to what others say - trust your ears when listening to your own favourite music. In music production and broadcast sound, we’re always aiming for a mid-point sound balance that won’t offend anyone. How you experience that will vary. 2. Your brain is not your friend when listening to those instruments which you already have a “library” of previous listenings. I have some top quality acoustic guitars. I know what they sound like when played live. Even if I listen to a recording of an acoustic guitar on a crummy system, my brain rejects the crummy sound and replaces it (in real time) with what I’m expecting to hear. So if you’re already familiar with what a great recording sounds like, your brain will automatically adjust mediocre sound without you having to do a lot of work - unless you concentrate. But why would you do that? A $500 set up today will reveal all of the flaws in recordings made before the year 2000. And then there’s the somewhat uncomfortable realisation when you’re mic-ing up a legendary rock band and preparing to capture their live performance on a Neve sound desk and 2” tape that their gear is the biggest heap of crap you’ve ever seen! Even their records can be horribly recorded, mixed and mastered. And if you’re listening on vinyl, you’re relying on a manufacturing process with often terrible QC. Very often the record libraries at Maida Vale and Ealing had to grade brand new records at low values as they were entered into the inventory! They were often terrible! The whole exercise is one of artifice. If you want to reproduce live sound in your listening room out of an array of transducers from a recording of any media, you can’t. Old recordings are full of unwanted and obvious artefacts of the recording process, and modern sound will have been compressed/expanded/equalised and processed many times before it reaches your system. Just find speakers you like, a good quality 44.1KHz Red Book standard digital source, a clean amp with plenty of power (at least 3dB headroom on your speakers RMS or Continuous power handling rating) and enjoy what it was that got the band and the original producers so excited they wanted to make a record - the passion and artistry of the musicians and composers.

@carewser

Жыл бұрын

could you elaborate?

@matthewtaylor7355

Жыл бұрын

He is talking about selling overpriced components that cost pence to make in China with types like hims mark ups.. U can buy replicas of these speaker 394gbp from china

@nitinkanchan5294

Жыл бұрын

Very well said Mr. Robert Dowell. Totally agree and it is logical.

@greggb681

Жыл бұрын

@@carewser 😂

@ronbackal

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for writing that! Was so insightful to read

Hello from Switzerland. Thank you for your infos. I decided to buy them along with Quad Artera Play for my little room (20 m2) connected with in akustik cables and I am very happy. For sure there are other speakers and also better but I arrived at one point where I stopped further comparisons. I like how they look and how they sound. For me it's top. I listen to classics, jazz, and singer & songwriter and I enjoy it. Enjoy your music too and stay healthy.

I really have gotten hooked on watching these "Speaker Upgrade" videos by Danny. So much so, that I can't wait to see him release some new ones..

What would be good is to hear your listening opinion on the speakers before you take them apart and then your thoughts after the tear down and see if they match.

@paullazarro4295

2 жыл бұрын

How does one listen to a chart? LOL

@thenorfolkst

2 жыл бұрын

@ paul lazarro . The same way you use a tape measure to see how big something is or weighing scales to check somethings weight or a light meter to check brightness . A huge dip or peak is visible on a graph so is the distortion and the the resonances and the dispersion characteristics and the time alignment of the drivers . Measurements are a useful tool . Hope this helps

@teamvid9454

2 жыл бұрын

he only assumes it will sound better after the mods. Steel nuts, BS

@mychildrenareashamedtobese3398

Жыл бұрын

There's plenty of subjective reviews of the speakers out there. GR is great as a point of reference along with other reviewers. I check with a few points of view since I can't just test everything at home. No single reviewer has everything sorted out.

LS50 was my gateway drug to the audiophile world. After having gone through many twists and turns with other brands and mixing and matching many different components and cables, I’ve finally landed on KEF Reference 1 (+REL S510’s) as being the speaker that checks all of the boxes for me. I’m still very fond of the LS50’s and own 3 pair including the newer Meta. Great speakers for the price as long as you find the right component match.

@martingritsch2340

2 жыл бұрын

Which amplifier would you recommend? Thanks

@CaptainCrunch823

2 жыл бұрын

@@martingritsch2340 depends on what sound signature (warm vs neutral) and features you prefer but the best matches that I have found are Denon PMA-1600NE, Denon PMA-A110 (excellent), Cambridge EVO-150, and Gold Note IS-1000 (excellent). All of these have some form of tone controls which I prefer to dial in the bass and lower midrange. All of my KEF speakers including Ref 5’s require subs (preferably REL) to maximize enjoyment in my experience. I love clean, tight, musical bass down to 20hz but I know a lot of people are happy without subs. Honorable mentions for Hegel H90, H190 and Arcam SA30 and AVR30 as well. The Arcams really sing with external DACs like the PS Audio DirectStream.

@FOH3663

2 жыл бұрын

@@martingritsch2340 I've not owned these or the original LS-50s ... however, by most accounts, it truly benefits from high quality high power amplification.

@martingritsch2340

2 жыл бұрын

@@CaptainCrunch823 Many thanks for your competent and detailed answer. I like the LS50 meta very much, but I also have no comparison.

@martingritsch2340

2 жыл бұрын

@@FOH3663 Many thanks for your answer.

Danny, I think what would add a lot of value to your speaker break-down videos would be the inclusion of actual listening impressions before and after any upgrades you have made. Seeing the measurement graphs tell me nothing about how a speaker actually sounds with music. The before and after graphs are interesting and all, but they don't tell the whole story. I know that the better crossover parts should improve the sound; however, what exactly is changing to the bass, mids, and treble while listening to a specific piece of music. Using your first rate listening room to provide your subjective before and after impressions would help the layman grasp the value of your speaker upgrade kits and enable a more educated buying decision.

@luke9822

2 жыл бұрын

KZread is full of subjective impressions that have more to do with one's personal setup, bias, and expectations going into a listening session than anything else. I really appreciate the on/off axis measurements before and after tweaking. That empirical information. Unless a reviewer is doing a blind review in which they are unaware of what speakers they are hearing. That would actually be useful, but is hard to pull off given that most are reviewing speakers being sent to them specifically for their review, setup by them in their own studio, and arranged and agreed to before they are ever shipped to them.

@Freedom89984

2 жыл бұрын

Replacement of a few parts in the woofer crossover will not change the sound by much. I bet most people won’t hear the difference. But what makes the difference are the extremely good cabinet, the 12th generation co-axial driver, and the very experienced team at Kef, that has all the professional equipment that’s needed to create one of the best selling monitors of this generation, much better than their legendary LS3/5a

@db-dy7tf

2 жыл бұрын

Great suggestion 👌

@Starch1b2c3d4a

2 жыл бұрын

ok boomer

@paullazarro4295

2 жыл бұрын

Amen!

I went straight for the LS50 Wireless II, thanks to a nice open box deal from Crutchfield. I am thrilled with it!

@wicomms

10 ай бұрын

Hi Cavey, I heard the Ls 50 and then I heard the wireless 2..I was blown away. How come their own amplification is better?

@CaveyMoth

10 ай бұрын

@@wicomms The Wireless 2 has separate amplifiers for the woofer and tweeter that are designed to get the most out of them. It also has a lot of digital signal processing, such as phase correction, that is able to enhance the sound by having the drivers work better together.

@wicomms

10 ай бұрын

@@CaveyMoth thanks

I have 7 of these -- a 5.1 and 2.1 -- love them!

Thank you for an honest detailed review!

Thank you Danny for what you do! Hello from East Texas.

"It’s not too bad to begin with" Wow. You can tell this guy has his own products to sell. I have these speakers, they replaced some PMCs that cost twice as much and they walk over them. They have a relatively flat frequency response, and fantastic imaging. Looking at the build, the boxes are heavily braced and filled with padding. The build quality is high, with a very nice matt paint finish. The performance is high.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

You might think the performance is high if comparing them to older PMC's. If you comparing them to any of our kits though you realize real quickly that they are far from high quality. Our little X-LS Encore and X-Bravo models will eat them up in all areas.

@StillAliveAndKicking_

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 Then you are in disagreement with countless reviewers, and measurements. I have PMC twenty.21, which in my opinion are massively overrated, and they have an awful frequency response. I’ve heard the twenty5.21i too, it’s not good, just my subjective opinion, but I bet it measures poorly. To be fair your speakers do have a much better frequency response than many if not most speakers. I’m shocked at how the likes of B&W produce speakers that are all over the place. I have no idea why so many makers voice their speakers as they do, it’s weird. However, measurements of the Kef LS50 Meta contradict your assertions. And I bet you buy in your drivers, unlike Kef who design their own. I am sure your gear is very nice, I’m not saying otherwise. And probably excellent value in kit form.

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

@@StillAliveAndKicking_ Yes, I disagree with any reviewer that thinks these are great. They are mediocre at best. The crossover parts are fair to poor. The woofer has an iron core inductors and electrolytic caps. That stuff is budget level garbage. We also do design our own drivers, and after having a lot of Kef drivers in house, I am not impressed. I hate the cone material too. It gives them a very vailed sound.

First review ive seen which actually addresses my disappointment with the sound of these (based on so many high praised reviews). I thought maybe I had set them up wrong or wasnt hearing them right. Definitely rolled off on the top and that muffled vocal, was the perfect description! Nailed it.

@derbygreg

Жыл бұрын

They are very transparent, you are probably hearing your amplifier properly for the first time

That's what noticed about the vocals sound of this speaker. It's slightly veiled and muffled. Completely different from my Sonus Faber speakers which are lovely with vocals. Now I know the culprit. Thanks for sharing that information with us. Good job.

Great video! I love seeing the parts used inside of the speakers - it tells you so much about the passion of the manufacturer or if they are just using cheapest glue and cable-binders to fix the parts.

@DiCarpio-yk9pd

3 ай бұрын

Lol here's another amateur that thinks he knows something

7:04 Also if you put more big inductors in, the box will have less internal volume that will affect the bass.

I would be really-really curios about KEF R3 model. It would be super interesting to watch your analysis. Thanks!

I'm more than pleased with building the gr-research av3's fronts and center with a gr-research servo sub...yet to build some rears

I found my Kef Q100 had a dip at 105Hz, have not compared to my Q150 yet but that would be interesting. Now have Kef R3. No more dip at 105Hz so I think could be due to the crossover/ updated driver/ shadow flair but WOW, KEF R3 is a Fantastic speaker with amazing clarity, dynamics and superb bass extension. high frequencies do drop off but easily boosted. I would very highly recommend Kef R3s to anyone using nearfield (need at least 1.5 to 2metres in front of speakers to hear bass) or for any room exceeding 10 square metres.

I am grateful for these videos especially when you show and describe the inner workings.

I had a pair of Kef 104/2 for over 30 years...Replaced by Watkins Gen 4 and a JL Audio e112 Sub.SOUNDS REAL GOOD

@andreasruttkiewicz6209

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Ray, I am still running my original KEF 104/2 with a PS Audio Sprout. They still sound wonderful. I have been thinking of new speakers, but not sure if newer is better. What do you find better with your new setup? Thanks

@scottwheeler2494

Жыл бұрын

My roommate had a pair of KEF top of their line speakers back in the mid80’s. Ran them with the Adcom GFA 555 and matching preamp. They sounded good, really good, but I was in a love affair with my Dahlquist at the time (would stay there until they were stolen). I was just glad we lived in a big townhouse with a floor between us when listening at the same time .

There is a 2R7 series resistor in the tweeter x over in my Metas! Both the large value electrolytic caps are in shunt on the woofer circuit so forgivable for the price. Yes I agree though, super difficult to upgrade without going to an external crossover

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

This one had no resistor on the tweeter circuit. Those electrolytic caps are in the direct signal path and do degrade the signal to the woofer.

@simondart1481

2 жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 The tweeter resistor is hidden behind the series cap. If you don't take the board out you won't see it I took mine out and traced the circuit. It is exactly as the KEF white paper says. 3rd order with a notch on the woofer, so the caps are in shunt, not series.

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

@@simondart1481 If only the original boards could be easily removed.... Those caps in shunt are still directly in the signal path to that woofer. What you hear passes right through them.

Interesting ... Main reasons for the "listener fatigue" are: * Too bright sound. * Room reverb. Since the speaker is measuring pretty good, the only reason for the former is other equipment characteristics or settings. As for the room, if sitting closer (really near field) helps, it is the problem that can be addressed in many ways. I own LS50 Meta since they ware released (over 18 months). And I love them for many reasons. They are in use for many hours almost every day. For me, the main trick to have great sounding system without overspending is to have a pair of decent subs. This is even more true for ppl like me having home theater and music in one package. The subs dramatically reduce the requirement for the amp. They also leave the speaker to focus on the job of fine details. I had the opportunity to evaluate this theory against few times more expensive "true audiophile" setups and it proved to be correct. Not to mention that having subs makes speakers placement easier.

The LS50 comes with port plugs. One is a donut and would help with port resonance without hurting bass response much. I had the previous gen LS50 and didn’t find it especially fatiguing.

@chuckschillingvideos

2 жыл бұрын

If anything you would expect some low frequency extension from plugging the port. You might lose some SPL, of course.

Great assessment as always. I would caution that manufacturer part choices are not only based on budget constraints but also driver synergy and balance. Simply replacing an R, L or C of the same value with a better part may not yield the same sonic signature and balance that was intended by the manufacturer.

@willmac1748

2 жыл бұрын

Well said. It's a great speaker, I listen to these at a cafe every morning..

@spooner1

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

Great analysis as always! What about improvements to the LS50 (Standard)? You mentioned that you would take care of the highs and mids in a different way that Kef did.

The whole front baffle is on 4 bolts that go trough back so you can take it off!

@naibafabdulkobor4301

2 жыл бұрын

Nope. Not with the LS50 Meta anymore.

Enjoy listening to a pair of KEF 105.1s I recently purchased, but then I find their vintage speakers generally sound quite good from this company, especially the Reference series. Granted the crossover network in the 105.1 is a tad complicated but given what the engineers were trying to accomplish the tradeoffs seem to be more positive. I am thinking of getting the recap kit from Falcon Acoustics as they are very close to what KEF designed when they originally created this model. Can it be improved? I do wonder if some Low Rez in the sealed 12" bass driver cabinet might be a good idea. Any thoughts?

Missed you. Need my Sensei of Audio training session! Thank you! Almost bought some Kef before taking a chance on the Pedistales! It turned out to be a GREAT decision! Happy listener!

Very honest review thx

Pair them with subs....give the mid driver a bit less to do and these sound great.

Great review man! Could you do a review of the new/old re-issue Rogers Speakers? Thanks, ~peace

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

I am not a reviewer, but if you send one in then I will take a look at it.

Yes I find the voice on these speakers can sometimes sound a bit veiled. That’s why I wld pair it with a 48W Class A SET Willsenton R800i to bring it out. Spkr wires also make quite a diff , Van Den Huls sound too soft I found , when I used silver wires from Xangsane ( Chinese) , the clarity, detail , imaging and soundstage went up a lot. Ofc spkr placement was critical and room dependent. Finally when I changed the DAC from my Matrix mini IPro 3 to the Denafrips Pontus 2 it was night and day. This spkr needs gd associated equipment for it to shine in a small to med room setting. Ofc with IsoAccoustic on the spkr spikes and def use the S2 Kef spkr bolted to the spkr n filled with sand & lead. And finally it needs to be paired with a gd sub like a Rel or KC62.

@V1ralB1ack

Жыл бұрын

I do the exact same thing. It's perfection.

@robertwang7825

Жыл бұрын

@@V1ralB1ack BTW I rolled the tubes on the Willsenton - the 6SN7 and the 300B to PSVane Western Electric , the improvement is quite substantial. Next I will change the 805s. I paired it with the Rel T5X sub. And that’s about it.

@V1ralB1ack

Жыл бұрын

@@robertwang7825 That's wonderful to hear. Rel subs are amazing. I have different components but same exact idea. An r2r dac, willsenton r300b tube amp (the new version), foam block between the stands and speakers. Filled with sand and sealed with some candle wax. Ive tried to find better but have failed. This is my ultimate setup.

@robertwang7825

Жыл бұрын

@@V1ralB1ack That good enough IMO

@V1ralB1ack

Жыл бұрын

@@robertwang7825 Same. My next goal is getting a willsenton r800i 805 like yours. They say it's the most musical version

Danny, amazing reviews by you. Unlike the other reviewers you go to the bones of the speakers along with tech data. It's great. Keep up going!! Can you please review Monitor Audio & recent acoustic energy speakers if possible in near future? Take care

Nice review. Would love to know what you do recommend other than kits which i dont have the patience for

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

We do offer some of them fully assembled.

Danny great video! I'm wondering how you made the 3D plot(the waterfall spectral plot)!

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

We use a Clio measuring system.

To the owner, have you tried aiming them so their center points cross over a bit in front of the listening position? This technique is sometimes recommended for coaxial drivers to make them feel less ‘beamy’.

I wonder what your first choice would be at or just above this price point. I was curious about these but went in another direction.

Sometimes, the fatigue comes from too high listening level, trying to get some more bass. I'd suggest a midbass module or a sub for a more pleasurable experience.

@Cujobob

2 жыл бұрын

"A flat in-room target response is clearly not the optimal target curve for room equalization. The preferred room corrections have a target response that has a smooth downward slope with increasing frequency. This tells us that listeners prefer a certain amount of natural room gain. Removing the room gain, makes the reproduced music sound unnatural, and too thin, according to these listeners. This also makes perfect sense since the recording was likely mixed in room where the room gain was also not removed; therefore, to remove it from the consumers' listening room would destroy spectral balance of the music as intended by the artist." That’s from Sean Olive’s blog. People prefer a downward slope in room for a number of reasons. This doesn’t mean all people, of course.

@FOH3663

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed ... even further, I'd mate these with a full tilt dipole bass system AND a monopole subwoofer below. Nothing like dipole bass/midbass, and the manner in which it resolves LF... just physics.

finally, i ve been waiting for this for a long time

@bryaneditiontv600

2 жыл бұрын

oh no, not what i was expecting, i was so excited to upgrade my metas to their full capacity :(

what would you recommend around this price?

MF M6si or above will match really well with these. You really need good strong clean power for these speakers to shine.

Hi wondering if you ever made an upgrade kit for the tannoys 215 you were working on years ago

Please do a video on the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s.

Danny, can you do a vid featuring what you consider to be the biggest leaps in speaker technology in the past 25 yrs ?

Just watched this again. My original LS50s are in a closet and periodically I pull them out them out and listen to them. As Danny noted in the review, they have some clarity issues (at least to my ears) so I go back to my 1st "home-built" X-LS speakers.

If he finds the sound fatigueing for long periods, the issue may be the upper mid hump. The easy suggestion there is to listen off axis where that hump flattens out. It will still sound a little dark due to the continuous slope to the treble, but it will reduce the fatigueing nature. Tone controls might be able to flatten the response depending on the curve of the tone control. Also, the fatigue may come from a room acoustic issue.

@stephenjon3502

2 жыл бұрын

I sold mine for that very reason J. Listen to music for around 8 hours a day when I'm home. The KEFS got worse as the day went on. Room acoustics should not have been a problem as I have a Lyngdorf amp with Room Perfect. Purchased a pair of JBL L82 Classics and they are perfect. Less harsh, more low end due to larger drivers. The soundstage isn't as wide as the KEFs but I can take that as they aren't fatiguing at all. Maybe as I listen to old soul and reggae on vinyl a lot is the reason why the JBLs are better.

@jked7463

2 жыл бұрын

@@stephenjon3502 yeah, jbl didn't design the L-82's for soundstaging. They built them for tone, texture & dynamics. But don't think that room perfect will fix room acoustic issues. While it can help, it won't completely undo bad acoustics. Physics can't be fooled. God created physics. He is not going to suspend physics because you bought a fancy digital processor. As for me, I can't listen to digital for very long before the digital hash splits my brain in two. Going to high resolution helps but then the fine details and lack of level gradations keep it from sounding real for me. Glad to hear you found a better solution in the L-82s. I had a boss that had an original set if L-82s. Glad jbl is keeping the heritage going.

@luke9822

2 жыл бұрын

@@jked7463 "God created physics" is by definition against the laws of physics.

@Technical_Audio

2 жыл бұрын

Or from an amplifier.

@jked7463

2 жыл бұрын

@@Technical_Audio depending on the amp, or more likely amp/speaker interaction.

KEF speakers require 50-100 hours to break in, it’s normal for these to be ‘bright and tight’ until then. Fatiguing? Never… perhaps the wrong amp? They have invested millions in R&D, as an engineer I know anything components and speakers or anything for that matter are designed to meet a price point in the marketplace….These are very highly regarded, our customers love them.

@Monsux

2 жыл бұрын

Room treatment and speaker placement is the issue. Even with a "bright" amp, you can make the LS50M much more warm sounding by doing a bit of acoustic treatment and placing speakers more off-axis.

@camelazo

2 жыл бұрын

well that 50 -100 hours are needed to get familiarized to the new signature sound... lol 4:54 nice chinese caps, that`s what im thinking the voice area is really compromised!! i hate that speakers

@Monsux

2 жыл бұрын

@@camelazo Yeah, I can't hear any difference what comes to break in (mostly just getting used to new speaker sound). I still can't understand how someone can hate this speaker (insane build quality, good overall performance, measures well, etc.) I understand if someone hates overly bright speakers that are a pain to listen to, but these even measure well in most of the test I have seen. Pair LS50M with sub(s) and you have a solid speaker system for a small to medium size rooms. There are better speakers, for sure, but I find it hard to hate if speakers are optimally placed with good room acoustics.

@realitykicksin8755

2 жыл бұрын

Millions in R&D ... but did you see that filter!?!?!?

You can find information how to tweak the KEF LS50 (no Meta) when searching for "KEF LS50 Tonfeile Pimp" and "Pimp my KEF LS50" (all in German). It provides information how to open the cabinet by removing the front baffle via 4 screws from the back (may be different on the Meta version?), a suggestion for an alternative bass driver crossover and some nice pictures showing the build and parts quality. I recently shortly listened to the LS50 Meta and was not 100% satisfied, especially cabinet vibrations where a little bit disappointing to me, maybe it is because the front baffle seems not be screwed instead of glued to the cabinet.

What’s your opinion of legacy Aeris speakers? Or even legacy speakers in general?

Hey man, very nice review. Can you point some speaker in the same price range that is actually worth it? Thanks

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Yes, visit our website to see options.

Hello, The shunting caps in the woofer circuit being electrolytic should not affect the sound , are you saying poly caps there would make a difference ..?? Regards

Hi can you talk about the kef r series? Any upgrade kit for it?

Extremely high frequencies are not able to be interpreted by the human ear but that doesn’t mean we’re unaware of them. I knew a bloke about 30 or 40 years ago who monitored emissions at factories. One place he went to had a bunch of people who were getting constant headaches. He measured a signal at about 45 kHz at _in excess of 160 dB!_ It would not surprise me at all that very high frequency sounds have an effect we are not aware of. I can only imagine what that factory noise was doing to the local dog population!

This is probably one of your best videos. Good job Danny.

Would love to see a tear down of Wharfedale Linton’s since a lot of objectivists/measurement focused reviews are praising them. EDIT: I see you already did! I love this channel.

I really love the sound of a good graph. LOL

The sound of the Kef’s are a bit more depending on a good amp than some other speakers. The Meta’s are better sounding than the first generation LS50. Those were also very good, but a bit fatiguing with some not so good recorded songs. The Meta’s are great in a smaller room and a sub is necessary for the low frequencies beneath 60 Hz. But please use a good amp like Hegel, Arcam, Naim, Roksan etc. These speakers are just as I expected. Good measurements, very good cabinet, overall good crossover, excellent sound for the size, imho best in this price class. It’s a definitely a killer, this Kef is a world wide succes. But no word about the soundstage of these speakers. If you place them correctly in the room, on good stands, these speakers are sounding incredible, sound fills the room without the idea that it’s coming out of the cabinets. That’s why so many people like them so much.

@Kbaum752

2 жыл бұрын

Really?

@Freedom89984

2 жыл бұрын

Try Flamenco sketches by Coltrane and Davis, maybe you discover what the Meta’s are capable off.

@Monsux

2 жыл бұрын

I would say that the LS50M sounds good even when using a low-end amp but really shines with high-end gear. Definitely needs a sub but never sounded bad even with a cheap amp with enough power. I have been testing even with multiple $200 - $600 amps and never had a bad experience with my listening space with good room treatment. It's a solid speaker for small to medium-size rooms if you like a clean detailed sounding speaker. If it causes fatigue then the room needs some acoustic treatment. I did fix the rear port "boomy" sound issue with nice DIY 50/50 diffuser/absorber panels behind the speakers. That small change had an insane impact on the overall performance, depth, and soundstage. Definitely way better results than using port plugs.

@albertmikeson7106

5 ай бұрын

I just got a pair. Only listened for 30-50 hours so far... Using with sub (as I do with all my speakers). Sound quality is fine, but what I like is that I can be anywhere - even laying down in the floor - and the sound stage is decent. Very useful when you do not have the perfect seating position in your room!

What other speakers do you suggest. I use to have the older 104. With macintosh mc275 and it sounded quite good. For the price point maybe better B&W ?

Danny, how about removing the meta material to see the delta on how it changes the sound and how much closer it becomes to an ordinary LS50? I guess this is impossible given how hard it would be to put together but that would be an amazing experiment if you could pull it off!

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

New Record Day did a review comparing them.

The binding posts... of course, it's the binding posts!

I have a couple set of KEF's Maybe the customer should try a different amp. I have found with KEF's a forward amp will sound over bright. I use a Arcam and they sound great. I have also used a Yamaha reciever. A good one and wow way over bright.. Good stuff Danny love the reviews.

I wish someone make a test and a video about Elac BS-312 and maybe compare them to the Kef LS50

I am certainly no expert but I agree with Barney from about 3 hrs ago - 5 inch 'bass' isn't gonna get it done, regardless the company. they are designed to be used with a Sub , which I would think would clean up the low mids IF the Sub and especially Xover is good. Note, I have Metas, Outlaw receiver, Def tech Sub.....Many might say that's not even 'Audiophile'.....

@oldestpunkinargentina7766

2 жыл бұрын

The Outlaw is a wonderful receiver !

Exrernal crossover is beautiful !!

Anders Ertzeid from Hegel uses those with a H590 in his personal system so they must be doing something right 😅

crossover in a separate enclosure, I say why not?

Would you like to look at a set of Heritage Specials? They are good enough to make me want Confidence 20.

They look great - a very lifestyle product. Heard them for the 1st time this year at a UK hi Fi Show. Very analytical but unimersive sound for me personally 🇬🇧

What is a good bookshelf in your opinion then

A few years ago i heard the original LS50; not bad at all, but the mids sounded to nasal, like they're glued to the speaker.

I've compared these directly to the Totem Sky monitors, and the Totem's were the clear winner for lacking all the flaws you said come with electrolytic caps and cheaper parts, etc. They're decent for their price, but a few hundred more gets you more transparency, soundstage, and low level detail on account of the better parts in the Totems. The one thing these do better, is the complete lack of box colorations. These cabinets are inert as I've ever heard. Heard on their own though, you'd think these were pretty darn good. They're dynamically a bit restricted for a woofer of this size, on account of part of the cone area being used for the tweeter, but they still throw a good size soundstage, so they don't sound terribly small.

Contradicción completa. Excelente medición, pero , se deduce mal sonidos por los capacitores de bajos?? Confío en Danny por su rigurosidad, y porque obliga a la industria a mejorar sus estándares, pero creo falta el aspecto subjetivo de la audición: como suena?

@fortheprofit2186

2 жыл бұрын

To me to port noise gets noticeable after around 85 db. That resonance can be solved by pluging it and using a subwoofer.

@hoth2112

2 жыл бұрын

Youd be surprised. I have one of our high end kits with an external crossover. One pair of crossover's i built uses high-quality parts, the other uses some of the cheapest parts I could find on Parts-Express. On par with the quality seen in the Metas. They measure identically, but sound nothing alike.. the cheap crossovers sounds dull and congested at best. The reason we dont do listening tests is because customers often only send us a single speaker to save on shipping costs. We also don't install the upgrades to be able to do before/after testing.

What would be the cheapest noticeable increase from the metas?

Hi, how are you doing? Thanks for your videos. I like to know about B&W 707 how is that speaker 🔊

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

Send one in and I'll let you know.

Can these also be used as centre speaker along side left and and right LS 50 Meta’s and would you recommend that or would you recommend another centre that could go well with L/R LS 50 Meta. My other option is the Dali Opticon 2 stand mount and Dali Opticon Vocal Centre. Many thanks.

@dannyrichie9743

6 ай бұрын

I wouldn't recommend any of their speakers.

do you have any recommendation of amplifiers for best speakers??? you never do a video on amplifiers and dacs and I wonder what are your best 3. Also what are your opinion on dsp crossover like minidsp and car dsp.. versus analog crossover..

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

I am not a reviewer. What you are seeing is a look into what we have been doing and offering here at GR Research for years. Not all dsp devices are equal. Some are quite bad and should be avoided. The Mini DSP is one of them.

@jvburnes

6 ай бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 Do you think the MiniDSP is sufficient for active crossover for subs? I know Linkwitz used them extensively for the lxmini and lx521.

For the price I couldn't find a better sounding, or looking speaker than the LS50, because there isn't any. I have owned quite a few different speakers, somewhere around 50 or so. I also use to build my own speakers, and although they were quite good, with high quality parts, inert cabinets, and exotic wood veneers, I couldn't compete. Fin. Thanks KEF!?! lol

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

Every kit we offer is well above them across the board.

@theoracleprodigy

2 жыл бұрын

If you build your own speakers there are several better in diy. Madisound has a few scan speak kits that would probably compete with Wilson audio. I happen to have a bookshelf that would compete with the b&w 802s. Not to put you down but the kefs fall apart when you play anything by 2 cellos. Anything with warmth like cellos sounds horrid on those.

@justinparkman3585

2 жыл бұрын

What others did you try

Interesting tube will watch others. Good to hear some counterbalance to the unremitting hype surrounding these spks and their revolutionary coin damper. Also good to hear that electrons are still audiophiles in 2023 and know to behave differently when they encounter a ClarityCap vs a standard component of exactly the same characteristics.

Might be good for casual listening!! I think all other reviewers would disagree. Part of KEF’s reference line.

Gr research could you cast your eye over the castle Harlech s1's and the castle Howard s3's,,, from the uk

Simply superb post I love this because it was tech at the start but then it quickly explained the rest in detail. I love this post. I hope future posts are like this.

Why is it that speaker manufacturers reveal so little about their crossover designs? Seems like there's a golden opportunity for a confident speaker designer to go full open-kimono and show their customers every single design decision, every part, and the manufacturing process, that goes into building a particular speaker model. Along with publishing all the measurements - in anechoic and non-anechoic settings. I believe that approach would appeal to broad range of people who care about more than just great aesthetics. Also, with fewer and fewer audio shops available, it would help with making a purchase without actually hearing the product first. Many of us rely on reviews to make audio purchase decisions, and having the design decisions, measurements, and parts list - would make those reviews more valuable to a person like me, who does not have easy access to a full range audio shop. I appreciate these videos, because Danny digs into the details like no one else I've seen. And he exposes just how little information manufacturers actually reveal about their products. Sure, we all want a set of speakers that look great, but I also want to know exactly what went into it, and why. And I don't think I'm the only one.

@audiophil5042

2 жыл бұрын

There are only a handful of people that care about those sorts of things and even then you can find all the details online. Driver/speaker designs have been detailed with 3D models and you can find all the small details nowadays. I personally did watch two really long presentations by Kef and how they designed every part. I can understand if there are problems with other manufacturers but Kef seems to be open with everything. Also, with online stores, you can at least test the gear and return it if you don't like the sound. All of my speakers did sound way different in the store than in my listening space. It's always nice to test speakers before buying but everything sounds different depending on the room. This is why reviewers have all sorts of takes when using the same speaker.

@mxbishop

2 жыл бұрын

@@audiophil5042 I agree that room acoustics make a huge diff. I have a neighbor who built a pool table room in his basement. All hard surfaces with a concrete floor. He installed an expensive audio system and 4 high-quality speakers, but the room reflections were so bad, it was painful to listen to anything above very low-volume. But I'm pretty sure those same speakers would sound great in my living room - which is full of soft surfaces. Still, I wish manufacturers would do more to reveal their speaker designs - particularly their crossover designs, which have enormous potential for coloring the sound.

@audiophil5042

2 жыл бұрын

​@@mxbishop Well, manufacturers only care about selling higher-end gear and offer different price points. Spend more and get better quality/output. It would be a negative business decision to offer an easy way to make modifications. Most audio gear has still great ways to improve things and is semi-easy to repair compared to other modern hardware companies (Apple, Tesla, etc.) All it takes is one chip inside the gear that disables every modification. The future is not looking bright so I'm happy that consumers have now at least ways to improve speakers. We can just support the brands that are doing a good job. I avoid buying products that become e-waste because of the company's anti-repair design.

Maybe the customer is over driving their amps and listening to the speaker too loud ? Or has a preamp that is not neutral ?

Why upgrade it 🤔 All of its measurements were well above average for consumer use. Price is nuts. Wish they were $800.00 a pair. However, most quality speakers start @ $1500.00 & up. That said, I’m still thinking of going for it. If anyone knows of the same or better quality as the Meta’s for $1600.00, please advise.

Well at least they built a speaker thats worth it for its price point. Would of been nice to turn it in a to a giant killer, it is what it is.

Have you ever gotten ohm walsh speakers ?

I use the KEF LS50 Meta for both 2 channel listening as well as part of surround sound system. So currently I have the fronts and center being LS50 Meta's and 2 rear Magnepan MC1's plus a transmission line subwoofer which I constructed many years ago. I believe the secret to unlock this system are the amps. A Van Alstine Hafler 220 plus a bunch of Adcom amplifiers seem to do the trick. Iam quite pleased with the performance of the KEF LS50 Meta and for the money I believe they are hard to beat.

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

They are a lot easier to beat than you think. Every kit we offer will beat up on them pretty badly.

@usajewels99

2 жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743So.. produce a kit for these... Iam sure you will get a lot of takers even it has to be mounted on the back of the unit.

@tlr5457

2 жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂. I am certain you think that about every speaker that isn't one you sell or market.

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

@@tlr5457 Or it could be that I am just being honest and these really aren't that great.

@StillAliveAndKicking_

Жыл бұрын

@@dannyrichie9743 Or maybe all independent reviews rate them highly. I find they play all genres well unlike some more expensive speakers.

I have the first LS50s and I can listen to them for 2+ hours without a problem. But they are very picky with the amp you match them. I currently use a Moon Simaudio amp that I got second hand, previously I had a Rotel integrated amp and the sound is almost night and day, they are very picky with amplification! Also, in my experience they can sound thin with a low wattage-current amp. But with the right amp LS50 sound killer for the price If you plan to amp LS50s with an average AV receiver or a $300 Stereo amp you better look elsewhere

@wicomms

9 ай бұрын

Can I know what was the model of rotel you tried, and what about yamaha as801 to pair with this kef?

Regarding meta materials, there is a great thread on DIY Audio titled 3d printed meta materials with ton of great info. Recommended reading if you make a video on the topic ❤

"upgrade the binding posts to increase the clarity" !

@dannyrichie9743

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes significantly. Many of those cheap binging posts are Brass with Steel terminals and Steel nuts on them.

Very faint praise for an outstanding little speaker.

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

It is not really that outstanding. You are never going to get to outstanding with budget level parts. It is mediocre at best.

was waiting for a sound test 🤷🏼‍♂️

@dannyrichie9743

2 жыл бұрын

Come on over and I'll give you one.

Why Ls50 is not 2.1 system? Like edifer S360db?

Never cared for kef that much but these do look cool

The cap on the tweeter is a little too big. Lower it 1-2uf and it will bring that hump at 4-6k hz down. Then, a 15 deg off axis listening position should be recommended imo.

Nice speakers but I had to get rid of them as they were really fatiguing. My music's on most of the day and these were a big no no.

you are the best and most honest.

I got a pair of these and the biggest problem I had was the bass, just too much and overwhelming I had to plug the ports to get them to sound ok in my room. They’re solidly built though. I sold them though and bought the real thing, LS3/5a.

@willbrink

2 жыл бұрын

You'll need to add a good sub (or two!) to those little boxes if you want real base.

@justinparkman3585

2 жыл бұрын

Don't blame you I had the originals one of most overrated speaker iv ever heard now got Pair of Atc a real speaker

@tonyhodgkinson4586

2 жыл бұрын

@@willbrink enough bass for me without sub, I’m not into bass so long as the tone and I can actually follow bass lines without being swamped in bass.

@supes323

2 жыл бұрын

@@justinparkman3585 atc’s are awesome speakers. Very accurate and revealing however I have since sold mine and have gone the diy route. Far better performance for the money spent.

@Freedom89984

2 жыл бұрын

I have both, but the Meta’s are better sounding in every aspect.

great video.. external would be nice for that.. have always looked at these.. but meh.

While this speaker and the standard Kef LS-50 seems to get a lot of praise, they also get a lot of dislikes too and this is from quite a few well known reviewers here on YT. I am going to say that I am a very frugal person and I have been made quite aware of the hi-end audio industry and that you don't always get what you pay for and one of the big areas this holds true is with speakers. While I had been an advocate of concentric cone speakers in the past, it seems there are a lot of audiophiles that don't like them. I had come across Tannoy in the recording studio realm and liked those, but couldn't justify the cost. I am very much a believer that you can get good sound without having to spend a fortune. So teaming that up with what I said before about not getting what you pay for. I am very much against very high priced audio equipment. Save for a a few decent companies out there, many take you for a ride. While I knew this early on, I had seen one of your videos in which a $6000 pair of speakers had a crap crossover in it and the cabinet had some reflection issues. So that right there confirms that fact. Also, you did a review on a $2200 Focal speaker and it had a lot of issues. When you pulled the tweeter out, it looked like a rinky dink Radio Shack tweeter! In the past, I did hold KEF in high regard, but it seems as if their value has gone down. Namely these LS-50s sell for around $1500 and I do admit I have trouble when it comes to spending more than $650 on a set of bookshelf speakers. It was my wondering WHY these cost so much when I came across the negative reviews. In fact, many that didn't like the sound of these speakers, preferred the sound of the Q-150, of which costs FAR less than these. I did see your review and upgrade of those and even though the parts for the upgrade are expensive, buying the Q-150''s and your parts still costs less than what the LS-50's go for. It does seem to me that companies that I once held in high regard such as Focal and KEF are now becoming "Troll" manufacturers and are overcharging for their speakers. Some people just drop so much money on what these companies ask for, and for what? They maybe get a marginal improvement in sound. It seems the higher you go in price, the less the improvement is. By right these LS-50s, which sell for $1500 should 5 times better than the Q-150, but that isn't the case. Given your measurements, I don't even think the improvement in sound would be twice as good. So why waste your money. Another case in point was when you upgraded a pair of Sony SSCS5 speakers. The point was made that the upgrade costs more than the speakers do new, but for under $400, you ended up with a really nice speaker.