This ADCC was the most exciting one I have watched and I’ve been following since 2003. They specifically made the wrestling portion more important by negative points for guard pulling.

@itheuserfirst3186

4 жыл бұрын

Guard penalizations don't do much because if you have a good guard you're more likely to take the penalty to gain an advantage in your preferred realm; especially if you're facing a takedown artist who you are likely to lose takedown points to anyway. It can only encourage it so much.

@aplus1080

4 жыл бұрын

The negative point thing has been around for a while.

@214warzone

4 жыл бұрын

If one guy in no gi keeps pushing the other guy in a match, is that considered Stalling? Can the ref penalize him?

@prandz420

4 жыл бұрын

Nick Pierce eventually but stalling calls take forever

@aplus1080

4 жыл бұрын

You can legitimately see 10 minutes of a pushing contest in ADCC. That is the absolute worst in any sport possible. Nothing is dumber than that. A shut out in baseball is two dudes playing catch and that's infinitely more interesting.

Lets be honest, who really wants to watch two black belts stalling in 50/50 for 10 minutes at an IBJJF tournament .... When you could watch sub only and see 20 different submission attempts and transitions? I like training GI but watching it can put me to sleep some times. The points system encourages fighters to be boring! FACTS

@roninblax

4 жыл бұрын

This has been my argument for years. I don't even watch BJJ anymore.

@eddys.razorxp6445

4 жыл бұрын

@@roninblax Thats true too.

@lunchbox1398

4 жыл бұрын

Sub only? Which format? Does not matter the time limit or go and/or no gi u always only get some action in last few minutes. U get stalling in Gi only when people are evenly matched. Gordon subs ppl in Gi just as fast as in no Gi. Also tbh you need to know enough about BJJ to enjoy it

@AlejandroGonzalez-wo5fk

4 жыл бұрын

I agree but I would ban heel hooks (you can keep knee bars, straight ankle locks and toe holds). Its just that 1 athletes tend to get injuried more frequently due to heel hooks and 2 theyre just too powerful in the sense that theyre highly effective and they can be applied with much less effort than other submissions

@mattmcc6060

4 жыл бұрын

@@AlejandroGonzalez-wo5fk Disagree it takes alot more time and patience to get really good at heel hook and their positions than it does knee bars and toeholds. People are getting injured because they dont know when to tap, when a world class black belt catches your heel its over but people who arnt training heel hooks regularly dont understand this and wait for them to full extend their hips through the knee, by this point the ligaments are already broken. You wouldnt start considering tapping to an armbar when your arm is fully hyper extended and already broken, same thing with heel hooks.

Didn't know Milo Yannopolus did BJJ

@MagickArmory

4 жыл бұрын

Omgs lol he really does look like him . Oh the meme potential with this lol

@OnlyNattysatUSC44

4 жыл бұрын

Damn! Milo is a beast at BJJ!

@DavidPerez-mr3cs

4 жыл бұрын

Ugh gross

@s.miller2648

4 жыл бұрын

You also didn't know how lame and cliched that type of comment is.

@thomsonrotterdam9074

4 жыл бұрын

milo vainopolo, Ungayo, Jason gabagoup, khalabeeb, stiopic all are well versed in bjj

the devs are gunna need to patch the game

This is like the snowboarding vs skiing debate in the 90's.

@Schwerthase

4 жыл бұрын

that analogy is on point

@Schwerthase

4 жыл бұрын

Skiers: Snowboarding sucks and is way too easy, not technical. Just a bunch of young punks do this. Snowboarders: Whatever grandpa, skiing is lame. Snowboarding rocks and is for the cool kids

@Poleeze1

4 жыл бұрын

I actually think snowboarding is way more difficult than skiing

@robertrobertson8575

4 жыл бұрын

Skateboarding vs Rollerblading lol

@TheTyler701

4 жыл бұрын

Poleeze1 one can pick up skii’s much easier their first go around but find it hard to get very good at it. Snowboarding is the contrary. Will take awhile to pick it up (at least more than skiing) but you will advance quickly as soon as it clicks.

This is an old interview. Keenan said in his podcast that he no long thinks like that. He changed after going training in danahers basement.

@johnsmith-fk7fw

4 жыл бұрын

god knows what danaher did to him 😲

@Brandon-ob9rg

4 жыл бұрын

What does he think now?!

@paragon1782

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah what's his current take then?

@BadWolfMMANashville

4 жыл бұрын

john smith he did nothing. When have you ever seen Danaher roll live with someone?

@mago777

4 жыл бұрын

Flip flopping Keenan lolol

In the GI you see people hold on for dear life and stall... That's boring jiu-jitsu when you think about it..

@davidpenn1123

4 жыл бұрын

Both gi and no gi have become decadent as they've moved deeper into sport and further from martial art. Still a lot to love. But I miss old school jiujitsu.

@jesuschristislord7754

4 жыл бұрын

You ever been in an actual amateur bjj tournament? I've not seen a single match where people were holding and stalling. Because of the rules. The matches are extremely short and you don't want to leave it in the hands of the judges.

@greysaku

4 жыл бұрын

And Keenan literally just explained how dudes are doing the same thing in Nogi, so what the hell are you talking about?

@RomeoBarnes

4 жыл бұрын

@robittiget then you should to take advantage of it. Make your grip breaks lead to advantageous positions or immediate submissions

@RomeoBarnes

4 жыл бұрын

robittiget grip strength is something you can train. And it’s not just holding on to the collar or sleeve. There are ways of manipulating the the collar or sleeve to make the grip more powerful and more stable thus making it easier to force the reactions you want. If you are “just holding on for dear life” you are going to ruin your fingers. If you don’t enjoy it’s that’s an entirely different discussion.

I went from Judo to no-gi and it has been a relief. So much more freedom of movement and wayyy more fun. I like how no-gi is basicly wrestling and bjj combined

The times are changing. As Dewey from malcom in the middle once said “THE FUTURE IS NOW OLD MAN!”

Gordon beat him and now he's angry at No-gi JJ.

@MrSinusu

4 жыл бұрын

That's what I am thinking.

@gesshugh9976

3 жыл бұрын

If keenan had his way people would be allowed to use the belt as a lariat(lasso).

@cvxcfv

3 жыл бұрын

He was such a dick to Gordon and his friends when they invited him to train with them. Keenus is 2 faced

So basically coming full circle and no gi has morphed back into the catch wrestling of the early mid 90’s

@SwordTune

4 жыл бұрын

Almost. I'll still say that there are fundamentally different approaches and attitudes in Catch vs No Gi, but the gap is closing.

@CrazeeFy

4 жыл бұрын

But there's still guard pulling

@RonnieD1970

4 жыл бұрын

What works is what works

@flowerswerewarpaint646

4 жыл бұрын

More or less Catch wrestling with more techniques and guard work

@RonnieD1970

4 жыл бұрын

@@flowerswerewarpaint646 i agree

Remember that Jujitsu was originally developed for close quarter combat and only recently (25 years) became a popular “combat sport”. When sport jujitsu adopted the point system it devolved jujitsu into something it was really not supposed to be. Submission only jujitsu is in a sense a more true form of jujitsu in that it incapacitates (or submits) your opponent. Adopting or borrowing from other combat sports is a natural evolutionary process because you try and retain the things which work and discard those that don’t.

@MrMelon247

2 жыл бұрын

You sound mad that you can’t berimbolo

@lolus8974

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrMelon247 lol

As with most martial arts that are designed for killing then sportified, point systems destroy them.

@redditate4587

4 жыл бұрын

HateJethro exactly. If no one get submitted, BJJ matches should be a draw. None of this pussy “pull hooks out then put them back in” bullshit.

@sakispdsw

3 жыл бұрын

@@redditate4587 I get your point bro i really do . But then there are other cases too. What if you take the guy down and then get mount control but fail to submit? How is that a draw?

@alexbrooker6922

3 жыл бұрын

@@sakispdsw because he stopped you from subbing him, good defense should count too

@sakispdsw

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexbrooker6922 But you are on top. You passed his guard and got mount. Its a clear victory imo.

@bradvincent2586

3 жыл бұрын

“Sportified” lol. Good point

"No Gi is bullshit because I can't stall out with bullshit lapel guards." - Keenis

I've been doing no gi catch wrestling since the early 90s, so I guess the rest of the world is now gravitating back to this type of game.

@xy5844

4 жыл бұрын

the game evolves destryoing itself.... i think people will discover something in the future that will change it again like half guard and using more leg locks

@jkranites

4 жыл бұрын

@@xy5844 I love people putting me in half guard. Cause I'll put him in a neck crank and win.

@TheTyler701

4 жыл бұрын

jkranites which neck cranks do you like? The only ones I’m doing are from Side control.

@jkranites

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheTyler701 well I saw it on a Catch Wrestling DVD. The defense for a lot of people is to turn into you from half guard, so you let them do that and it leaves there neck exposed. If I can find the clip it can better explain it. I'm not a good explainer

@flowerswerewarpaint646

4 жыл бұрын

Find that clip please that's fascinating

He's half right. He's ignoring the impact of the rules. In theory Gi has more options, in reality the rules minimise 90% of the possibilities. IBJJF rules encourage a guard game with minimal mount.

This is definitely an old episode

@kylehasgeniusbits

4 жыл бұрын

RyanG yeah I saw this interview months ago

Imploding? I think the title is misleading. Modern No-gi has hands down, become the most popular niché of Jiu jitsu. The pro level no gi athletes make the most money. The pro level no gi competitions sell the most views.

@chrischic3424

4 жыл бұрын

Miller Mayhem maybe the stands look packed at gi events. They bring a large traditional Bjj following. But nothing like the views for adcc, ebi, no gi worlds all have more viewers. Even smaller events like sub stars have crazy amount of people buying pay per view. No gi is becoming more main stream. Even non Bjj People enjoy watching it, whereas gi is mostly Bjj guys watching it. UFC , the largest fight company in the world, is airing no gi events with fight pass. I don’t think I’ve seen any gi matches on fight pass. Just my .02 cents.

Do I need to sign some sort of contract to see the rest of this interview?

A wise man once told me. “Gi is good for Gi. No Gi is good for grappling overall” 💯👏🏾

Nogi is imploding because of covid*

@marclopez2050

4 жыл бұрын

Roids very importan

@johnchristian3387

4 жыл бұрын

🤣

@marcoduvall4404

4 жыл бұрын

Deeeeeeam

@aquilatempestate9527

4 жыл бұрын

Plandemic.

@lisheltonanderson8645

4 жыл бұрын

Hahahahahaha

this keenan guy always impress me with his analysis

He's not wrong. Nicky Rodriguez had only been training 6 months and got 3rd in ADCC. A lot of it was down to his wrestling and Danaher's system but he was also ridiculously athletic

@kallepikku4991

3 жыл бұрын

I think he became 2nd. And the gold medalist got caught being massively on PEDs just few months later, but ADCC didn't revoke his title. Otherwise Rodriguez would've been 1st place.

@drake1896

Жыл бұрын

@@kallepikku4991 they're all on heavy peds

@bluelightmoon777

Жыл бұрын

Peds do make a huge difference. You can roll for hours literally while the natural guy will get tired very quick

I think there are alot of folks that equate less technical (grips issue for example), with less value added as a sport. I'd argue that they are two diverging sports, equally valid and exciting imo, and definitely both should be respected imo. They've simply become very different sports much like Greco-Roman/Freestyle wrestling, Boxing, kickboxing and MMA etc.

Submission grappling (or no-gi jiu jitsu) should prohibit guard pulling and have a cage/ring. This will guarantee action and keep athletes from fleeing the engagement. Also brings an aspect of "real life" back into the fight

@asharif242

4 жыл бұрын

I Didnt realise cages followed you around in real life o.O

@Consumer156

4 жыл бұрын

@@asharif242 I usually find myself near walls in real life instead of a wide open field with someone ordering me back to the middle every time I go too far

@TheEfpTV

4 жыл бұрын

Cant pull guard in real life. That and you run faster with the knife.

@BadgerBJJ

4 жыл бұрын

Idk about the cage, but a guard pull should be penalized

@Gelato556

4 жыл бұрын

Both coaches at my gym do something similar. They push us to stay on top and go for take downs in both gi and no Gi. If you pull guard during a roll they make you do 20 push ups for every guard pull.

"No-Gi is less technical" - is losing to more technical dudes in nogi who haven't had their belt even close to as long as him.

@jordanfrankfurt6978

4 жыл бұрын

This is a very old video and he has changed his mind iirc. IDK why flo is uploading this w/o mentioning that.

@jordanfrankfurt6978

4 жыл бұрын

@Kyle Hines He's 6-2 this year so far, was 8-2 last year, and 23-4 the year before that.

@MrHeathcliff83

4 жыл бұрын

he made his point... it is less technical but you can loose by beeing the weaker guy or just beeing ot fast enough. he only talked about the technical point and that its possible to loose an the physical aspects.

@WhtMike2006

4 жыл бұрын

This is an old video and Keenan doesn’t even think this anymore

@PicaPauDiablo1

4 жыл бұрын

@Miller Mayhem Pardon me I'm new, but who is the blonde steroid junkie if I may ask? Keenan def doesn't look juiced.

My problem with the GI is that there are some shitty stalling techniques, where you entangle the gi over the legs, put a leg in, etc and also kind of try to eliminate the passing game, which is also really cancerous.

2:20 "if a jiu-jitsu guy has you in his guard and you didn't break his leg with a leglock, you should quit wrestling forever." Karl Gotch - Catch wrestling legend

I remember when this guy was in Hilo. Sharuto, bj, tkd, (his father is a full time martial trainer too). He has really made himself a perfect career.

How's Will still getting such fresh fades during the pandemic??

@ryang9973

4 жыл бұрын

This has to been an old recording

@flipgsp

4 жыл бұрын

@@ryang9973 Ya it's from a year ago

@ryang9973

4 жыл бұрын

@@flipgsp yeah think I've seen this video before

This is what happens in BJJ. There will be a period where some position or technique dominates. Then someone will come up with a way around it and that becomes the new thing. That’s just the evolution of BJJ.

For me, in both gi and no gi, the guard passing "technology" is way behind the guard pulling "technology" and that is hurting both the gi and no gi matches.

Keenan thinks no-gi is less technical because he thinks “techniques” are solid MOVES. Any wrestler knows that a technique could be just shifting your weight a certain way. That’s why you need to crosstrain, people.

@ethansmith6018

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, so many people don't understand this. I've heard people try to tell me wrestling has a tiny amount of techniques and I was like, well, you clearly haven't wrestled.

i'm a newbie, could anybody explain this to me.. At 1:55 -3:00 he seems to me to say that in Gi they still do guard passes, but in no-gi they don't because of the risk of leg locks.. But doesn't the risk of leg locks exist in Gi too?

@DavidBrown-ek6ei

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, the techniques are still effective, but most leg locks are not allowed until black belt and then no longer allowed in Masters. Also not allowed is what is known as Reaping and without being able to reap the opponents leg you are cut off from multiple powerful leg lock control positions ie. Cross Ashi aka Honeyhole. Reaping in competition is immediate disqualification. This is according to IBJJF rules and there are exceptions for certain techniques at different levels.

My favorite submissions are the ones that make people tap.

I get it sucks that the “playing” guard aspects are starting to get taken out. But nogi isn’t “playing” it’s a fight. Much more of a fight than pajama grappling.

@Gestapo93

4 жыл бұрын

I never got in a fight in pair of board shorts. People at the beach are chill.

@cbmx780

4 жыл бұрын

Donal Finn first of all, cm punk isn’t even an athlete much less a fighter. He’s an actor. Second. As someone who won 2 Greco state titles and 2 all American medals in Greco Roman wrestling at Fargo, I can say no gi is absolutely dangerous. Joint manipulation. Enough said

@cbmx780

4 жыл бұрын

Donal Finn “it’s not nearly as dangerous as Greco-Roman wrestling”

@cbmx780

4 жыл бұрын

Donal Finn absolutely. You can drop someone right on there head from as high as you can lift them. BJJ has strict rules against that. Just like Greco rules strictly prohibit strangleholds. Both very dangerous sports lol

@Buddy2fly

Жыл бұрын

ive nvr seen anyone fight in spandex

Well, being on top SHOULD be more effective than being on bottom! That's the whole point of the takedown.

@aekole2

4 жыл бұрын

The point of the takedown is that you force the position , and depending on the player you vould be better on top, but you forget that with a great takedown you can totally bypass the guard! That's even more important

@aekole2

4 жыл бұрын

@Logical Caveman I think you are not taking into account how many submissions exist from guard

@flowerswerewarpaint646

4 жыл бұрын

Why should it? If it's not being as effective, it's not as effective No should, only results

@nooneatall5612

4 жыл бұрын

@@flowerswerewarpaint646 Ill rephrase it then for your enjoyment being on top is factually more effective than being on bottom. The top player always has the option of sweeping himself and playing bottom position if he so chooses. Im pointing this out because Keenan complained that being on top is much more effective than being on bottom in no gi, which I find weird because that's the whole point of taking someone down is the fact that top position is better than bottom position.

@flowerswerewarpaint646

4 жыл бұрын

Have a real leg locker underneath you and try sweeping to bottom xD Advantage is relative to the two skillsets competing

Let the Gi boys fade into obscurity. Any competition at the highest level will have a heavy athletic component. Also “no gi” is simply grappling whereas “gi” is a costume variant...we assume gi is foundational because the original practitioners wore them but it’s nothing more than a Japanese tradition adopted by Brazilians. Also Keenan is ultimately just pissed he has no shot against Gordon

I get what he's saying, but I feel like lapel/squid guard is turning the sport into something else entirely that's not even BJJ anymore; I don't think that having to untangle yourself from a spiderweb of lapels and other pieces of clothing should be part of it. On the no-gi side, I think it's becoming more simplified, for now....

I'm absolutely fine with BJJ just being a martial art and not a spectator sport.

He is wrong... This is simply becoming to be two different sports that’s it.. Don’t like lapel guards stuff? Go to Grappling Do not enjoy Wrestling and leg locks?? Train Jiu-Jitsu!!

@Jimmy-iy9pl

3 жыл бұрын

Judo

And a year later, Gordon still dominates the field from the bottom.

it is foolish to argue about which option is 'more technical' without settling on a definition of technical first

One is not more technical than the other, gi is definitely more dynamic.

A thousand less techniques yet everyone centers their game around far less than that. Even Keenan seems to focus his gi game around a narrow area of guards. More technical or not the gi games can become so boring with all the stalling with gi grips.

Are you surprised by fact that taking off the gi turns jiu-jitsu into Catch wrestling? Were you really foolish enough to think you're re-inventing the wheel? We have been wrestling each other for thousands of year, and until 1930s we still used joint-locks and chokes in wrestling matches as extra leverage. You would think people have figure out the best wrestling/no-gi strategies during these thousands of years, even the industry itself is dead (couldn't survive financially) and all the great technicians are gone.

@teamgitusome

4 жыл бұрын

Kalle Pikku bang on.

@internetenjoyer1044

4 жыл бұрын

It's all wrestling. Wrestling is just the name for any grappling sport/martial art that got named by western English speakers. If Japan was some small country and westerners found out about Judo and popularized it world wide, it'd be called something like "japanese wrestling".

@graciederangementsyndrome3669

4 жыл бұрын

Except catch wrestling(with submissions) engaged in mostly fixed matches so your argument is invalid

Sounds like a dude who refused to evolve with the game.

Remember when people used to compete in jiu jitsu and be able to roll with each other in class? Those were the days.. Gonna be a long next year or two without any of that...

@dialohurt4333

3 жыл бұрын

I've been rolling in class man..hope you're able to soon

@staylucky4727

Жыл бұрын

So many homies left. I’m left with nerds like Mikey now ugh

To say that gi is better because you can do more techniques is a silly thought. Maybe you think that cause you’re not creative enough? But is that the measure? More techniques? If sports is a window to mortal combat than less rules is the ideal. the closer you can get to the reality of true hand to hand combat than that is the better forum. How often will an article of clothing be a factor in self defense and should it be the decisive factor for the person initiating the technique. If you have to rely on clothing to express your art than that to me is silly.

@garrydye2394

4 жыл бұрын

Unless your fighting a guy on the beach...article of clothing can, could, and would almost always be a factor. That is like saying Judo doesn't work outside of tournaments. Have a good Judo guy grab you by the jacket and see if you don't go flying.

@Gestapo93

4 жыл бұрын

Street clothes can be used to choke People. Jeans, jackets can be grabbed. I like no-gi, but I never got into a fight in a pair of board shorts.

@whatever9042

4 жыл бұрын

Gorilla Lawyer that’s not the point. Clothes should not be the main factor of your technique. A choke is a choke.

I wonder how long it will take for the black belt no gi meta to get to mma? Every few heelhooks still. PaulHarris or whatever and hall make up most of them. Also interesting that the importance of top control in no gi has mirrored mma

@FelipeSantos-xq4tc

4 жыл бұрын

Palhares, pronounced pa-leeah-res

@paragon1782

4 жыл бұрын

@@FelipeSantos-xq4tc thank u sir

Keenan looks like Orange Cassidy

Like both but no-gi just shows what is more realistic in situations 🤷🏽‍♂️

@Buddy2fly

Жыл бұрын

not rly your not gonna have no grips

King Ryan plays guard pretty well IMHO

I would like to know what is more useful for self defense, no Gi or Gi. Because self defense is what BJJ or any martial art should be about. Sport applications that don’t work in a fight is not what BJJ should be about.

Keenan is just envious that he's not innovating nogi, only gi -- which is boring to watch. Keenan also refutes his own point by himself. He doesn't do leglocks in his nogi matches. He mostly takes backs or guillotines.

Also, while I tend to promote the gi side of things, I would say that there's far more no-gi chokes today than there were in the past, and most of the same ones are used in the gi. In no-gi you have the darce, anaconda, arm-in guillotine, drop guillotine, arm-out guillotine, rear-naked choke, bicep choke, von flue choke, triangle choke, reverse triangle choke, gogo-plata, the ezekiel choke, and numerous other variations that I am surely missing. Yes, there are unique variations with the gi, but how many of those are used frequently?

The problem with no-gi is that it's too narrowly focused due to leg-lock spammers. It's one thing to use leglocks as a diversified tool, it's another to only focus on that. There's more to jiu-jitsu than leglocks, and since there's less dense talent in no-go at this point, a small group can get away with spamming them. It's like watching kids with a new toy obsessing over it.

@tomjones2056

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like u got leg locked by someone u think u are better than

@bigdaveyjoyce7890

4 жыл бұрын

Leg lock spammers? This ain't a video game dude, the best shit rises to the top and right now leglocks are more effective than not. If a leglock specialist can shutdown and submit a regular no-gi grappler, then that's the way it goes until people have better defense and counters. That's the way of martial arts, otherwise all the UFC champions would be Kung-Fu and Tiger-Claw specialists. The best shit rises to the top over time, and this is where we're at. Learn the defense.

@bigdaveyjoyce7890

4 жыл бұрын

@INTOtheVOID11 ;)

@itheuserfirst3186

4 жыл бұрын

@@tomjones2056 No, I used to focus on leglocks as a beginner because I couldn't pass strong guards. I was being lazy.

@itheuserfirst3186

4 жыл бұрын

@Jake I'm not neccessarily talking about Gordon.

I prefer no gi over the gi. I find the gi a bit boring when rolling. I’m also getting into leg locks during the covid isolation period. Inside heel hook boom

Gi is for the nerds. No Gi is more pleasing to the crowds.

@jiujitsukitty9319

4 жыл бұрын

💯💯💯💯💯

didnt Karl Gotch say "if a jiu jitsu guy has you in his guard and you havent broken his leg with a leglock, you should quit wrestling" ?

Can someone explain to me why leg locks are less common/more difficult in Gi? I’ve never trained Gi.

@notkenji

4 жыл бұрын

Essentially, it's cuz you can grab onto the gi

@TheTyler701

4 жыл бұрын

Devan Proust and that makes leg locks more difficult to pull off?

@notme3686

4 жыл бұрын

Because most things in gi bjj are controlled by the gracies directly or indirectly and the gracies were always in competition with catch wrestling. Catch wrestlers could beat gi players quite a bit with leg locks and gi players could do nothing about it so the gracies made it taboo. They said it was low class to use leg locks. Outlawed it in their tournaments and schools. Made it as if it didn't exist. Then MMA came in and did what MMA does to martial arts. Discards what doesn't work until it fits into the rules. Keeping leg locks out of MMA didn't work in so called no holds barred fights so people saw early on they were viable despite what the gracies said. And the gracies even tried to cheat people in the UFC who used leg locks. But then no gi came on strong with people like Eddie Bravo and now you have catch wrestling as the preferred grappling art for MMA. It covers all of the bases except judo plays. The catch wrestlers need to incorporate sambo. Or sambo needs to lose the shirt. Gracie/gi jj as a standalone art is basically the same now as tae kwon do was in the 90's. Outdated and useless to people that honestly want to know how to fight. Doesn't mean it wasn't useful and extremely transformative in the fight game, but now it's kinda useless.

My knees are imploding because of leg locks and wrestling

you dont see as much guard play bc leg locks are so efficent when in a guard. its on the guard player to react appropriately to not get leg locked and force the situation they want to see

Again, why do a martial art then? What's the most realistic game for mma or a fight if that's one's prerogative? Is doing 2000000 moves that are inn-effective in a fight (ibjjf) great for a martial art? perhaps a sport, but many do jiujitsu for practicality and efficiency.

It is a sign of our times that we determine the value of everything by how many clicks or views it gets. Not every art-form needs to be a spectator sport. Just my 2 cents

Unless there is some reason I am unaware of, I think this a really scummy attempt by FloGrappling to start drama. Perhaps this is a huge play made by both Gordon and Keenan in order to hype up a potential superfight between the two of them and Flo is aware of this. Otherwise, fuck Flo.

@davidserrano624

4 жыл бұрын

Hey you gotta plat the game

@redditate4587

4 жыл бұрын

Gordon and Keenan wouldn’t be a superfight. Keenan cannot keep up. At one point he came close, but Gordon has evolved far beyond him

Isn't this just a reflection of a grappling reality, or a flaw in old school jiujitsu? Leg locks should be accounted for in a complete art.

@chadelliottfahlman

4 жыл бұрын

@Craig Taylor What I should say is that leg locks should be addressed from the start. Especially if open guard is vulnerable to it. Teach leg locks as a viable threat from day #1. Early Gracie Jiu Jitsu didnt appreciate leglocks iirc. Oswaldo Fadda, who branched off, was criticized by the Gracies because he taught students leg locks.

@chadelliottfahlman

4 жыл бұрын

When his students scored leg locks in tourneys, they were called Cobblers (a pejorative).

I love jiu jitsu but at the end of the day you might be forgetting how to fight. old school mma rules but we'll never see that again.

@gesshugh9976

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, competition kills martial arts. It helps at first because people get more practice, but eventually, since you can't be practicing real street fights because people would dropping like flies, people end up getting obsessed with winning, and abuse rules, and it's all downhill from there. You end up with lovely sports sure, but you lose the fighting. Even in mma this happens. You see people with all sorts of crazy strats that would be unrealistic in a so called "real fight".

@LOLLYPOPPE

2 жыл бұрын

@@gesshugh9976 ?????

I remember when BJJ was a martial art for self defense........

@fulaan1

3 жыл бұрын

Would you recommend a school that focuses on self defence jiu jitsu. Even Jean Jacque Machado said 80% of sport jits is usless for self defence

@davidd854

2 жыл бұрын

@@fulaan1 RIckson gracie JJ

In Austin, Texas I’m assuming. How is that not surprising lmao

Watching gi bjj is the equivalent to a triangles sleep

No Gi is street skating while Gi is vert and pool skating

Rickson Gracie may have trained in a gi but he always fought MMA w/out it.

@rdn6933

4 жыл бұрын

Let’s not act like he was fighting the cream of the crop

@byronjuarez656

4 жыл бұрын

@@rdn6933 Not saying Rickson was the best... but he was the best Gracie. And while Royce chose to wear a gi, Rickson wore MMA attire to utilize his athleticism. My point was: as one of the most respected grapplers, Rickson bucked his own tradition when the stakes were high.

@mongolchiuud8931

4 жыл бұрын

@@byronjuarez656 Rickson fought people who had more losses than wins. And his own father Helio said in a taped interview that Rickson was a liar and does not have 400-0 record. In fact MOST Gracie members state that ROLLS Gracie and George Gracie(Carlos and helios other brother) were the best gracie figher.

@byronjuarez656

4 жыл бұрын

@@mongolchiuud8931 Idk about Helio but Relson has a youtube vid where he debunked Rickson's 400-0 myth. You seem dead-on about your other points tho.

Gi is perfectly fine to train in and compete but its VERY easy to stall

Gi is more fun to play. No-gi is more fun to watch

No gi is more realistic. I always liked Gi because it takes less athletics

*fewer

More techniques doesnt mean more effective. E.g. Kung Fu vs Muay Thai

@Jimmy-iy9pl

3 жыл бұрын

Kung Fu isn't a martial art.

I agree 100%...NOGI it’s much more athletic and go against the original BJJ’s principal of weak person against a strong person m. BJJ on the Gi it’s much more popular and keep growing because any non athlete person can do. For many years NOGI tries to grow, investing a lot money but they don’t survive and come back a few years later... It’s a short term investment

@peekaboojujitsoo525

2 жыл бұрын

so you need gi grips for your jiu jitsu to work? Jiu jitsu is jiu jitsu and the principles should not change with gi or without gi, with strikes or without strikes.

@Dentinhobjj

2 жыл бұрын

@@peekaboojujitsoo525 Wrong message for the wrong person Pequeno Garfanhoto. I love Gi, NOGI and MMA. Check what I wrote again so you can understand. If not, I can explain again next time 👍

@peekaboojujitsoo525

2 жыл бұрын

@@Dentinhobjj I know what you wrote I can read. I dont care who you are, what you said is dogmatic nonsense saying nogi goes against the principles of jiu jitsu. Learn to be humble "Pequeno Garfanhoto"

Totally agree

100% agree with Keenan that it’s less technical. Less grips, also sweat is a big factor after the match starts. Can’t slip out the same way in Gi matches.

@GoodstrAteGy

4 жыл бұрын

TaxEvasion i disagree, adding a tool to make techniques easier to achieve is not “more technical” its the level of each technique required to achieve the goal, for instance its harder to achieve domination positions in no-gi thus requiring a much higher level of technical ability in that givin technique.

@TaxEvasi0n

4 жыл бұрын

Sorta normal Eric I get what you’re saying. In regards to escapes, gi will bring that level much higher though. Because you also have to fight grips. Some escapes you have to weasel your way out inch my inch. You can completely bypass some of these steps in nogi simply because the friction is not there. So to be successful in nogi, you’d the. have to learn to put blocks in place, and replace that block with another block. However, coming back to the original point of Keenan being that it’s technical, if you haven’t trained extensively in the gi then you wouldn’t understand that. Escaping side control in the gi is a lot lot LOT more harder then escaping side control in nogi. That’s pretty much what it boils down to. It’s more technical because it has more variables (as a sport to deal with).

@GoodstrAteGy

4 жыл бұрын

TaxEvasion I think theres a trade off between the 2, the gi allows you more opportunities for offense and less for defense since traction is an added obstacle to overcome, and no gi allows more opportunities for defense and less for offense because you lack the added tools and traction, so no gi requires a higher skill level of attack for it to be affective... Anyway good discussion I got nothin but respect for all grapplers regardless

@TaxEvasi0n

4 жыл бұрын

Sorta normal Eric 1000% agree on that. I think that’s why I slowly transitioned to nogi. I loved the scrambles and the constant attacking, even when I was on the bottom 80% of the time. Attack from everywhere. Not the case in gi. I would go back to gi and get tangled, and would have to methodically think about each step. Depends what each person likes. I spent the first year of training getting smashed because everyone was way bigger then me, nogi equalised the playing field a little more for me. 💪🏼 respect brother 👏🏼🤛🏼 Oss.

So he doesn’t like the fact that in no go playing guard is much less effective than in gi. Well that’s the point. U want to be on top. That’s why wrestlers are dominating. In gi they do things like pull guard. That won’t cut it as much in no gi

He needs to study catch wrestling...jujitsu was designed around the use of the gi, grappling with out it is not the same as simply taking the gi off I think

What's wrong with leg lock?

I think Keenan is lookin at this topic wrong, people are realizing what works best without having a rope around someones neck or leverage points with the gi, turns out traditional bbj isnt very effective without adding tools to make it effective, its like sayin if you make everyone play basketball with a lower net ull have so many more techniques and itll be more technical

Disagree 110%. NO-GI is exploding and making this sport and Martial Art into a serious Art again. People appreciate the submission only style in the no-gi events and it is heading that way to gi as well. What is imploding is the nonsense of IBJJF points and unrealistic martial arts.

I agree

My question is...so what? Get better at defending legs and getting takedowns. Yes the guard is getting less effective. So what? If it's so important get better at it. It's all a game of rolling with sweaty men.

“I’m a weak little bitch that wants to stall and use extra tools to hold onto someone.”-Keenan Cornelius

Keenan loves himself

@marcoduvall4404

4 жыл бұрын

He's a sweet boy..

The Milo Yiannopoulos of BJJ

I have to agree.

I personally fond no gi is getting even populer than before, don't think it will be exploding. Gi Can be have more choke, but It's just too boaring because of grabbing gi makes the game too lose and slow

@itheuserfirst3186

4 жыл бұрын

And watch guys spamming leglocks, and playing footsies all match is the height of entertainment?

@gsk4545

4 жыл бұрын

Even though thouse things, It's still quicker and more dynamic game than gi, and watching thair wrestling technique is Big part of fun

@gsk4545

4 жыл бұрын

But I admit That they gotta find some New ways to avoid these leg lock games for whole entire of compétition. Then Would be much better

@tomjones2056

4 жыл бұрын

itheuser First better than watching someone tie up worm guard and sit there for 10 minutes

@MillenniumReport

4 жыл бұрын

itheuser First ima Blue and I slay through higher belts because they refuse to learn legs. Yes, no Gi with “footsies” and leg locks are more entertaining than watching gi matches. Gi matches are stalling competitions.

This aged like milk lol. Keenan has now been kicked out of Atos and is also on bad terms with New Wave/Gordon Ryan. Leg locks and wrestling are expanding the game and challenging him and he isn’t into it.

I usually like Keenan but this is rediculous. Hes basically saying no gi is imploding because of the most interesting and effective aspects of jiu jitsu are used

Leg locks and wrestling... it's almost like old catch wrestling techniques are coming back lmao.

There’s less you can do in gi compared to no gi also.

Let's go back to the Roger, Terere days of grappling.

@tatertots0046

3 жыл бұрын

Roger would dominate in any era

@whatever2544

3 жыл бұрын

Terere was running though all the bb that became legendary

@tatertots0046

3 жыл бұрын

@@whatever2544 Terere never competed in nogi right? I wonder how he would of matched up with Ricardo Arona

@nstv23

3 жыл бұрын

Why the no Gi game is more developed than ever and Roger and Terere would agree with it.

@tatertots0046

3 жыл бұрын

@@nstv23 no the leg lock guard pulling is more developed but there aren't beastly wrestlers like Mark Kerr anymore.

In the streets ( hopefully not) leg lock attempts are dangerous . In the sport, it is not exciting to me although I’ll participate but will kick my butt out of there as soon as possible. I like old school. One love

@PauloBerni699

4 жыл бұрын

Anar Key i agree with your first statement 100% : The further you get away from the head for a submission the more lost ground you have to recover if the set up fails or your opponent escapes. Transitioning from one leg lock to another is not as safe and positionally efficient as transitioning from one choke to another for example (IMHO).

@dmtjnani9951

4 жыл бұрын

paulo it always surprises me the lack of wildness of the person getting leg locked; I imagine myself one of those cartoons and start wilding to get back to butt or knees. I don’t know. Those older guys put you to sleep ; and that ,Paulo , is the objective. One love

This is an interesting point. I can see why a high level competitor misses the nuances of Gi techniques and their interplay, but because all those techniques aren't effective against an opponent outside of a Gi why would that matter? Those techniques are impractical based upon their very nature.