The Shohei Ono video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZYl4xpifpNqYeqQ.htmlsi=LJ2Vfisi_g5FLjc1

Cross trained in Judo and Wrestling Judo helped massively in Wrestling. I started Judo because I noticed all the best wrestlers in highschool were also very good Judokas the two Judokas in my highschool were 3rd in wrestling In the state wrestling tournament and the female was first and they were siblings

@mrboy9658

7 ай бұрын

Sports sambo too very good to crosstrain with wrestling , because technically sports sambo is almost the same stuff that judo was before reforms . Vlad Koulikov proves that

@lamesurfer1015

7 ай бұрын

Overrated might be the wrong word. I'd say "Hyper-popular" in the global sports community since it is the most practiced style of grappling/wrestling, followed by Freestyle.

@francismurage895

7 ай бұрын

Khabib Nurmagomagodev(ufc) once said that judo was more superior to wrestling; we can trust him on that since he started as a wrestler

@copicmarker1021

7 ай бұрын

@@francismurage895 He said that regarding the 'merit' of the gold medal for judo vs. wrestling

@lancegoulet8100

6 ай бұрын

I trained wrestling to help my judo. One of my teammates was a junior (under 20 years old) national champion in judo and collegiate national champion in wrestling in the same year. A lot fo my judo teammates were great high school wrestlers and many of them wrestled in college.

As a wrestler, the judo stance is absolutely brilliant on hard surfaces, also for efficiency and counter throws

@1_Bad_Z

7 ай бұрын

It's good, once you clinch since a double and single would be awkward or lost of opportunity when the distance has been closed. Ive seen Judo black belts that had Wrestled in high school/ College; dominate other Judo black belts.

@JohnDhar

7 ай бұрын

In my wrestling club we train both, freestyle and Greco. So both stance, same story in every place I have trained. Wrestler can fight with a upwards or lower stance.

@beingmediocre

6 ай бұрын

I'm a judo player... because wrestling wasn't a thing in my area when I was younger. Love coming up against wrestlers because I don't know what I'm gonna get. So much to learn from each, it's just all grappling

Judo does not "shoot" for legs, What Judo does is called a "snatch" in wrestling terminology "shooting" is when you put your knee down and commit to the step through!

@jestfullgremblim8002

7 ай бұрын

True that!

@SoldierAndrew

7 ай бұрын

Correct.

@slothmaster101

7 ай бұрын

Wrestling teaches you how to knee walk. Judo doesn't. However, Aikido teaches knee walking. Weird right?

@BURGAWMMA

7 ай бұрын

@@slothmaster101 WOAH 🤔💥

@jestfullgremblim8002

7 ай бұрын

@@slothmaster101 exactly lol

Jigoro Kano was teaching the upright fighting stance because when someone uses the bent over wrestling stance, is susceptible to atemi waza, at any moment.We must remember that the Judo in the old days was more towards self defense having in mind that in a street scenario, atemi waza is a part of a fight. Thank you.

@KingOfSwords720

7 ай бұрын

Many people aren't aware of this because they're too one dimensional. The way grappling is taught today, no one is ready to get hit. At such a close distance, knees and elbows are devastating.

@jaredmackey4511

7 ай бұрын

I agree with you that one should be mindful of strikes when thinking about their stance. But wouldn’t that be the same as saying an upright stance opens one up to lower body attacks? In my opinion, the reason judokas can use the upright stance is because of control from the gi. Changing levels becomes a lot more challenging if you’re having to grip and hand fight. Edit: Just saw where Chadi mentioned this towards the end of the video.

@mrboy9658

7 ай бұрын

But you can see that freestyle wrestling still works in mma or street as well

@marcosgarcia8544

7 ай бұрын

What is atemi waza?

@AdventureThroughLife

7 ай бұрын

@@marcosgarcia8544 Striking techniques.

Do people not know that wrestlers do more than just shoot double legs? I wrestled mostly upper body, doing an occasional firemans or single leg, never did double legs but I could stop doubles. I worked out with Judo guys and it was even matches since we both did throws that were different.

@kaizenproductions00

7 ай бұрын

Not to mention Greco Roman wrestling is ONLY upper body attacks

@neowneow13

7 ай бұрын

Any tips on implimenting more upperbody attacks I seem to struggle with them more compared to your usual single or double legs How do you set them up from hand fighting?

@SwordFighterPKN

7 ай бұрын

@@neowneow13 - I find the big key to upperbody is moving forward. You don't play paddy cake with hands, you close in. If you are used to shooting you like that distance and getting close is going to make you uncomfortable. I have found there are three types of people with take downs. Those that throw, those that shoot and those that sweep/trip. Everyone gets good at one, some are good at two; I've never meet someone that is good at all three.

@pelejahosoba4032

7 ай бұрын

​@@SwordFighterPKNyou are exactly right brother,I suck at shooting but am a king at throws and quite good at sweeping,I'm a judoka so anything shooting I am not always to confident

@rustyshackleford735

7 ай бұрын

@@neowneow13 I can tell you I use a lot of arm drags and Russian arm ties which leads to a lot of upper body, under hooks, wizzers, body locks goose-neck clinches, etc...come off of arm attacks.

Last week I watched the European Championship, and most Judokas fight bent over, using techniques like Pasatka (variant of Kata-guruma). The point is simple, bring back the old Judo, just stick to proper judging, "passive attack is punishment", we all know what negative Judo is, and that's it.

I think an interesting follow up video to this would be one exploring the stances used in various jacket/clothing styles of European wrestling, especially any that allow leg grabs.

One of the greatest quotes I heard was from Satoshi Ishii. I think it was in a Donmai video. He said the rule change to remove leg grabs was absolutely BS because wrestlers had all the opportunities in the world up until that point to win plenty of world judo titles and Olympic medals. But you know what happened? The judokas won most of the time.

@Chadi

3 ай бұрын

100%

Thanks Chadi. You actually remind me my randori with a Black Belt two weeks ago. I'm 36 a green belt and he is at his 20s and a Black belt. He was trying to throw me several times but everytime I use my hip defense to nullify his attack. It bought me some time to counter.

@Chadi

7 ай бұрын

That’s awesome

@JohnDhar

7 ай бұрын

Hips defense, the way showed by Chadi, is one of the fundamental of wrestling. Best move to learn how to engage the hips and feel their power is to be belly flat on the ground and having someone above on his feet trying to lift you from the waist. If you engage your hips to the ground, tucking your tail, the lifter will feel the difference as it becomes really hard to lift you up. Once you understand this, you can apply the same stand up, same as Chadi's video

The upright posture of Judo is absolutely genius... that coupled with the rice Bale throw makes wrestling a different game. The upright posture also converts to mixed martial arts much better than the bent over stance of other Combat Sports. I taught my high school wrestlers to stand up more straight and when someone tried to shoot for their legs hit them with a rice Bale throw or use your increased drop momentum to sprawl them flat. If you drop from a deeply squatted stance you don't have that much drop pressure but if you drop from nearly standing your weight hits much harder smashing their leg attack with a heavier Force!

@marquisejoubert6129

7 ай бұрын

I’m someone who wrestled through highschool to D3 in college from the 189 LBS through Heavyweight. It’s funny because my coaches had the top 3 weight classes focus on upper body techniques for example my bread and butter was a headlock takedown into a reverse headlock takedown. I will say the Tawara Gaeshi Chadi showed is a move I’ve naturally come to use as a shoot defense except I try to turn all the way through and through in the legs

@BURGAWMMA

7 ай бұрын

@@marquisejoubert6129 yes I couldn't agree more here's my version kzread.info/dash/bejne/daB_r6yvZ9mwhZs.htmlsi=RWkwxo9Fzj7k_h71

@janosch7210

7 ай бұрын

hmm i'm not sure if i'm getting your take on that correctly. Let me sum it up. So, you're saying you learn your guys in wrestling the upright stance, since it transists better into mma and from there you can use your body weight and gravitation better to both defending incomming moves with like a full body weight sprawl or countering a incomming move with stuff like a rice bale throw, right? Then my question would be, how much utility does a rice bale throw bing to the table especially considering the setting of mma, since you will both be landing flat and noone of both fighters will have a dominant position for follow ups like GroundNPound or submissions? (considering you're not doing the single leg counter where you fully roll with your partner into mount, because they you'd have this advantageous position im talking about)...Care to elaborate?

@BURGAWMMA

7 ай бұрын

@@janosch7210 as usual the "forms" style is practically worthless kzread.info/dash/bejne/daB_r6yvZ9mwhZs.htmlsi=biPl0hpZCgx4X4o0

@ayam1maya

7 ай бұрын

@@janosch7210 I think the greatest utility comes from the original move pile-driving the head into the ground which obviously wouldn't be legal in sport which is another example of how sportification ruins martial arts.

I think if you combine, wrestling with judo than you become a ultimate grappler. Listen wrestling = strength and explosion and stamina . While judo = strength and endurance but wrestling too.

@jestfullgremblim8002

7 ай бұрын

Yes indeed! But that's if you practice Judo as a full art! Because many schools barely do any Ne Waza which is very important

@MrCmon113

6 ай бұрын

If you just want strength and endurance, save your money and just exercise by yourself.

"judo is not a wrestling" No dude , judo is actually a Japanese wrestling

@k9m42

7 ай бұрын

It’s better than that!

@kaizenproductions00

7 ай бұрын

Judo is a form of Jacket Wrestling (like Shuai Jiao, Irish Collar and Elbow, etc) and is in fact the most popular jacket wrestling style

@mrboy9658

7 ай бұрын

@@k9m42 no .just another overrated style of jacket wrestling. All wrestling styles is VERY similiar , even gi and noGi

@Rokudan-nn7ky

4 ай бұрын

Can’t see a wrestler wanting to break your arms or strangle you out judo is more technical because of the amount of throws and counters available because of the use of a gi

IMO, Judo always has the advantage in modern mma since the meta now is always going for the clinch.

@1massboy

7 ай бұрын

Well I would say that if you only train either folkstyle or freestyle there could be an advantage for judo. But Greco Roman wrestling definitely is at least equal to if not slightly superior to judo for MMA.

@SoldierAndrew

7 ай бұрын

@@1massboy French wrestling (Greco-Roman) doesn't have ashi waza , hadaka jime nor submissions.

@marquisejoubert6129

7 ай бұрын

@@1massboy i personally think the grapplers from folk style are better

@badart3204

7 ай бұрын

@@1massboyI mean the Folkstyle guys do really well though. They are actually good at holding guys down unlike freestyle and Greco guys. Furthermore, if they are taken down they actually train getting back to the feet which is a massive blind spot in Judo

@kaizenproductions00

7 ай бұрын

​@@badart3204Folkstyle control and pressure is good. I'm able to use some of mine in BJJ class

The sprawl is a great defense with leg takedowns(single and double). The wrestling stance of bending over is only done in transition in street fights. For example when in a fight you clinch you may go into this stance briefly.

The upright stance from judo is really good for defense in my opinion, from being a judoka to wrestler, I like to use judo to mostly counter in wrestling, wrestling is perfect for offensive but once u catch their double leg it’s perfect to counter with any judo throw

Not standing upright in wrestling is not only about protecting the legs as it's also done in greco roman wrestling. This is because if one is upright and the other is slightly crouched, then all that is needed is to grab the upright one and straighten up to remove contact from the ground making throwing pretty easy. The jacket does change that, but that is also why wrestling have an advantage when there is no jacket.

OK I don’t know whether the headline on this video is Just some kind of Clickbait. But watching the video I do very much agree with everything that you said. Being able to check someone with your hips and your legs can be huge both in judo and in wrestling. Wrestling does take it one step further with sprawling because more often than not unless you’re doing Greco-Roman wrestling someone is going to shoot on you. But going back to the headline is judo defenseless against wrestling? Absolutely not. You just have to be able to modify your training in order to be prepared for those situation’s. Learning how to sprawl should be essential learning for most grappling martial arts whether you use it all the time or not. It’s a great way To train your body to throw those hips forward.

@tichtran664

6 ай бұрын

Except judo keep losing to, at least, the catch wrestlers. From the days of Ad Santel to the first Quintet

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast.

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

@@tichtran664 Submission grappling is a different beast. Regular wrestlers lose there too. Its a BJJ/Catch Wrestling/Submission Wrestling fest. You never see Sambo amount to much in it either, yet they don't get shit. Takedown focused arts are just not good in submission rules.

Very insightful video. Thank you!

Excellent as always

Chadi you answered the questions perfectly.

The wrestling throw on the right picture was also a favourite grip of Anton Geesink, who was also a tall but in his prime not very heavy, (super) heavy weight.

Concerning Bodybuilding, Yamashita had a similar problem as the weightlifting Olympic champion Matthias Steiner or even the Shot putter Ralf Reichenbach who lost their upper body size when they sized down even when they made bodybuilding. That's because they took their force from the whole body which was connected to their body weight, from the core of the body, which is much stronger than strong arms. If you compare the competitors of the first Strongman contests you will see the different kinds of raw strength and power. The Bodybuilders won the bar bend, the Throwers could not show their explosivity developed just through their body acceleration and the most massive guys were the strongest in pulling a carriage ... There is often the question who is stronger: Eddie or Lasha ? In the past they would have said: Lasha, now they say: Eddie. The Americans are professionals, the Sowjets were (Olympic amateurs who have to keep the rules, like Alexejev). A human is the "animal" with the most upright posture - for a reason. The equilibrium is achieved by lots of side muscles that stabilise the posture. On the ground these muscles are relieved. This is also the difference between Olympic weightlifting (even the former Clean and Press) and the Benchpress. Alexeyev explained that the Sowjets overcame the Americans by far in strength. After the break down of the Sowjets the American style could be sold better. However, now we have a lot of 3rd world nations in the international sports community who bring their own style into the game. (Fichi islands in Rugby is a good example, Jamaica in Sprint ... Hawaii in Sumo).

I have run into a few wrestlers who have told stories about encountering judoka and being helpless against them. These were guys who wrestled at state championship levels in the big wrestling states. In each case, the judoka was older and more experienced, but in each case the wrestlers just blown away by the experience. At the 2:20 mark that hip checking is found in many classical styles of yawara or jujutsu, and it is usually a deeper stance that locks the opponent's knees, involves striking to finish a throw and the possibility to severely damage the knee or back of the opponent (similar but not exactly why kane basame is considered so dangerous, imagine it in armor). There is a jujutsu school that specialized in the acrobatic escapes you see in the MMA footage. I suspect more than one. All of this is based off of stance work that is upright, with the hips under you in a particular way and a particular sequencing of body action, and it all was influenced by the wearing of armor. This is very related to how Mizune did what he did and old Judo, imo. This is why the belt grabbing was important in judo, you can't grab the armor, but you could grab the obi that secured the tachi, same with Sumo, and an upright stance was necessary. The wearing of swords also influenced yawara techniques. These classical methods are easy to talk about, not easy to do, and when you meet someone who can, it is a whole new experience. That's why there are so few who can do it. it is much more straight forward to be strong and fast, but you can only be so strong and fast. The advent of competitive Judo changed the arts into something different, and that is fine. It's its own animal. Some in each generation "rediscover" some of the classical principles and they usually excel as a result. It can be a secret sauce.

As someone who has done both for over 15 years, I consider judo one of a very few styles that can rival it when it comes to takedowns, I also consider it an awesome art to cross train wrestling with, and if you do Greco Roman wrestling you will love and excel at judo.

Be interesting to see the comparison with Greco Roman wrestling. Probably way more similar to judo defenses.

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

GR and Judo do not have much in common. You got a lot more you can do with Judo, so a Judoka wins more than not.

A friend of mine I trained with was a 3 times national Jr. wrestling champion and a high school state wrestling champion. He wrestled standing straight up.

@thomasowen5785

5 ай бұрын

what? i need to see it to believe it. you're talking folkstyle?

In My first wrestling tournament a coach from.another team (that i had never met) came to me at half and asked if i did judo. I was puzzled and said yes. He replied with STOP DOING JUDO. He then gave me a quick recap on the wrestling stance and i went back at it. Once i got into wrestling a bit more i did pretty good with some big throws. Did well with ashiwaza as well. Love both sports.

Chadi,, let’s do more in regards to these types of things please.

I am a new subscriber and new to Judo. I have wrestled both freestyle and Greco-Roman. I am wondering how effective would the Russian tie or the 2 on 1 in Judo and can you break the collar grip in judo using a traditional 2 on 1 maneuver like in wrestling where you twist and peel the collar tie grip? Thanks

3:01 I did as you said and put my hand on my cats stomach. Now it is purring and jumped onto my lap. Does that happen in judo as well?

You can have a look on Shuai Jiao matches. Leg grapping is allowed, still a very upright position is usually maintained.

Wrestler are explosieve, and they have stamina and power.. judokas are strong too

@YesitisDex

7 ай бұрын

Unfortunately unless the wrestler has a Gi top on, we MAY have a “hard time” to grab them. Yes, the clench but then it’s no gi and (IMO) no gi is “wrestling” Fk I love this sport 🤩

@doolbedolc

7 ай бұрын

Depends because there are many hybrid styles of judo mixed with wrestling and bjj. In fact, david Camarillo teaches a variation of it.

@MrCmon113

6 ай бұрын

That's irrelevant to the sports themselves. It's irrelevant to your decision, as an adult, of what you should learm.

@YesitisDex

6 ай бұрын

LOL@@MrCmon113

Check out GSP vs Karo fight.

In my opinion leg grabs should be allowed but with the rule that you should not knee drop to go for it. Makes it also applicable to self defense/combat when there is hard surface, what do you think @chadi?

@josephbreza-grappling9459

7 ай бұрын

I like the idea!

Здравствуйте уважаемый Чади, смотрю ваши видео. Сегодня посмотрел это видео, полностью с вами согласен. Вы очень правильно всё объяснили. Полностью вас поддерживаю. Раньше занимался дзюдо, хорошая вещь, но захваты за ноги и блокировка ног руками отсутствует. В этом видео вв очень грамотно разобрали защиту. Продолжайте пожалуйста делать такие видео, лично я,их с удовольствием смотрю)))

Yes, judoka would still adopt an upright posture. Leg grabs used to be allowed - there is throw called morote gari in the shimesho no waza. As for pushing your hips forward, that is something we practiced a lot in judo. Utsuri goshi is a technique that when done as a counter uses that hip defense. You use a similar motion when you sprawl in wrestling to defend a shot. You do not pull your hips back, you push your hips forward and throw your legs back and drop your center of gravity to the floor. Just as you mention a sprawl is really just the hop defense you learn in judo. Also, the bent over stance wrestlers take is not very practicle in a self-defense situation. You very rarely see mma fighters adopt that stance because you are open to knee strikes to your face or elbow strikes to the top and back of your head and your back. It is also not a very good stance to throw strikes from. The judo posture is a better self defense posture.

Yes, no-Gi judo practitioner vs freestyle wrestler with similar experience - judo would lose dominance. The only problem with wrestling is no training on submitting an opponent. Wrestling + BJJ is the golden combo for no striking fighting ❤

@tichtran664

6 ай бұрын

No submission in wrestling except for catch wrestling.

With cloths on or a GI, shooting on legs is much more difficult. It is a lot easy to control a person and defend leg shots when grabbing their jacket or shirt. That’s why Judo practice is better for self defense than wretched. Especially with chokes and arm bars.

@MrCmon113

6 ай бұрын

People typically run around in pyjamas?

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

@@MrCmon113 Peopld don't typically run around in skin tight rash guards, mankinis or swimming trunks either. We usually wear shirts. You can grab a shirt and throw with it.

I’ve seen some high level Wrestlers get straight up THROWN by Judokas in MMA so 🤷🏼‍♂️ Karo Parisyan from back around the TUF1 era .... that guy was damn good. That’s one example of many. Look at the throws he did to Josh Burkman. Josh wasn’t like a Kurt Angle, John Smith level Wrestler, but he was probably in the top 8%-10% in the US at that time. And Karo straight up RAGDOLLED Burkman up one side and down the other. Im that thinking Burkmans Teebus probably shrunk a couple of inches during that ordeal he was forced to endure.

The ijf should have a no gi with leg grabs category, it would be wild. And back to judo's jujutsu roots. But jiujitsu is taking the market

The major difference is that the control of the gi is really difficult for someone to shoot for the legs.

Thank you 👍👏

The traditional upright stance in judo is because the grappling and throwing of old KoRyu JuJutsu was developed for combat use where you would end up in a clinch because you crashed into each other while fighting with swords, look at Kendo and how often they end up in close quarters.

I want to start wrestling or judo. Im almost 30. Which one is easier on the body? Where am I going to get less likely Injured?

Wrestlers are extremely explosive, and Judoka's are freak chimp strong

Jigoro Kano's original system was great, Judo is wonderful when the art is practiced fully, newaza and all the throws (none of that BS from IFJ or the Olympics). I dare say it was one of the most complete martial arts, then all these stupid rules neutered the art and now wrestling and jiu jitsu filled in the niche..

From experience, Judo and wrestling are extremely complimentary. From gi to no gi, shots to throws, blocks to leg sweeps, they are good for each other.

William Fairbairn, a British policeman in Shanghai who trained WW2 soldiers in hand to hand combat, was originally a wrestler and then became obsessed with judo as it was far more practical for his job. I thought this was odd as you constantly hear wrestling is superior, but if people are fully clothed, usually wearing jackets in most countries then judo would be far more effective when out in public.

@themightykabool

6 ай бұрын

Keyvwords: If And Fully clothed. Family Guy and deaf naked guy comes to mind. Hahha

Judo Wrestling and Combat Jui Jitsu should be formed into 1 art

i have a question, i saw old videos of judokas tournaments and they still had upright posture but back then leg grabs were still in can u explain why is that? thank you chadi.

@souhildouida9846

7 ай бұрын

He already explained that .because if you didn't stand upright you will give your opponent especially if he is a good judoka more chance to throw you and bring your head done while rotating because you are bent over

@gladiumcaeli

7 ай бұрын

The gi, gripping makes it easier to defend leg grabs

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

Because people make a giant stink of leg grabs without understanding the basics of jacket wrestling. Leg attacks are easy to do in No-gi specifically because everything is so slippery. Where the lapel and sleeve control is something you can hold for an entire Judo match, overhooks and collar ties are extremely transient. If your gi is grabbed, its super hard to get down for a takedown- hell you can see this in Sambo too, they don't have much leg grabbing despite the rules allowing it. Leg grabs are almost like a no-gi unique fighting style lol.

But I have a special request, maybe with neil adams helping you lol, could you do a video of the top 5 or 10 judokas in each Europe countries of all time ? ....

Depends on your approach to Judo. I took adult Judo classes and approach was to learn techniques but apply them to self defense. Sports Judo approach is intended to win matches under rules set by governing organization.

If knees and kicks to the face were allowed would wrestlers and BJJ guys bend over? I think Judo and Greco stances lend themselves to MMA and all the elements of wrestling and BJJ follow after at least some contact is made.

@MrCmon113

6 ай бұрын

You level change the moment you start wrestling anyways. But yeah I guess if you can't do any mma training, it's probably good to wrestle from upright position a but as well.

That's why banning leg grabs castrated judo. The sport has so many ways to deal with that but instead they decided to ban it and now no one remembers how to.

@muayboran6111

7 ай бұрын

Spot on. I didn’t like the change

@MrCmon113

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, leg grabs are the most intuitive for beginners and the highest percentage in mma.

Los judokas son fáciles de vencer una vez te enfrentas a uno los digo como alguien que ha enfrentado a esos tipos en varias ocasiones, aunque irónicamente terminaron moldeando mi estilo de lucha pues pase de hacer uso total de lucha grecorromana a una especie de híbrido entre lucha libre y greco, pues lucho en greco y defiendo al modo de los librista, pues me acostumbré a tratar de evitar los barridos que suelen hacer los judokas, pero diré que encontré similitudes entre ambos deportes, pues el Judo es como lucha grecorromana pero centrado en sujetar la ropa siendo la diferencia que en licha derribado y en judo arrojas osea en licha como que lo redirija al suelo, pero en judo veo que literal es como si te arrancarán del suelo.

in street fight shirt will get ripped unless its a coat. Winter time judo is very effective. Summertime wrestling maybe . Bend over to pick up , stand & slam. Both are very effective though .

Nice job chetti

In mma, you can see judoka vs wrestlers. Look at Miesha Tate attempting a double leg vs Ronda Rousey who countered it with a harai goshi. Look at Khabib Nurmagomedov who used judo moves vs Rafael Dos Anjos and Edson Barboza in the clinch.

The leg grapp as performed in freestyle wrestling, Shootfight or BJj that also the Gracies use has to do with strength but much less than most people think. It is more work than strength. It is not well seen in Judo in this form because it looks not very elegant. Of course in Judo it should be more a surprise attack like in its ideal also in Shootfight. However it isn't well estimated anymore in Judo - the jump shear Kami-Basami is another surprise attack that is even less respected. Pure technical strength Saito junior sometimes uses effectivly in Judo when he has his opponent in Taiotoshi and he just continues pulling over his leg with his whole body force and the opponent is quasi locked. In these cases he doesn't swipe his leg to create dynamic momentum and power as usual in Judo (as created by ushi mata or harai goshi). A certain technical strengths was also necessary for Wim Ruska to hold the Russian former wrestler Kusnezow (who beat him before) in the Olympic open class final 1972. Here strengths is connected with weight shift (which is strength also by feeling). However I agree if you make a distinction between strength and power. The term "momentum" is not clear because momentum can mean rotation power or torsion. Elastic torsion in the body maybe released in form of a strong throw rather than just straight stress.

I couldn't agree more. The upright posture is so essential from a martial perspective, that Kano was right in separating the Kosen rules from mainstream Kodokan. While I do not agree with all the late silly rule changes, and even leglocks in some form should've always been allowed, Kosen/BJJ is just a fit for a 1v1 rule fight. Not for a true encounter.

@Chadi

5 ай бұрын

🙇🏻‍♂️

Can this work as counter to Ko-Uchi Gari ? or even Ouchi Gari ???

@Chadi

7 ай бұрын

I don’t think so, you need to be upright when performing O uchi and Ko uchi, this work for bent opponents

thats kind of like saying "the tradiotional wrestling stance is bad against muay thai because you could just knee him to the face" OBVIOUSLY if different rules exist the stance changes

柔道はフランスで最も普及しています。特に女性に護身術として、大変多く普及していると聞きます。衣服を掴まれる恐怖を柔道は解消してくれるのでしょう。どの格闘技が優れているのでは無く、それぞれの格闘技に優れた技術が有り、それを取り入れている事が最も重要な事で現実にそうなっているのが、UFCで有り、全世界の警察機構、市民レベル、主婦、女性の護身術に至るまで浸透していると思います。

How many finishing moves do wrestlers know?

my point is if you are looking at judo from only a Japanese perspective which is not the only way because in wrestling you take down someone then pin them, in judo you take someone down and pin them right the difference is judo is obviously the some submissions but overall the standup is wrestling and ground game modern jiu-jitsu, I understand when teaching there takedowns in judo the Japanese are very technical and precise more then Greco, Freestyle, Folkstyle & Sambo but takedowns ARE WRESTLING DOWNS my freind.

In the UFC, shootings and snatches are more used bc of USA influence, look at ONE for example. And 2, principally bc you cant hit the nape while on grappling nor kick or knee ppl which have their hand on the ground. I doubt ppl would be going so much to the ankle, if we could pounce at the nape :)

Looking at physics percpective, you’re able to maintain better balance fighting upright. Even when leg grabs were allowed in judo, japanese athletes always had ghe straight posture and dominated the world as they still do :) 🇯🇵

It is always a question of the rules. In Boxing they want to see excellent punches and spectacular K.O. wich must come very fast. Otherwise the power is already away. In Judo the want to see analogously excellent spectaculaire trows. Also these must com very fast and powerful. In Boxing as well as in judo upright posture is the basis. in Boxing there is no grappling and no ground work. In Judo there is of course no stiking and less and less groundwork. In Wrestling groundwork should be important and pulling to the ground is a good but sometimes slow action, of course in Greco you are forced to use your upper body. In Taekwondo they want to see excellent leg work and less and less punches or strikes. That's because auf Olympia. Karate was a problem because of different reasons. Wushu should be acrobatic gymnastics show. Olympic weightlifting is also a sport where you have to ecplode, when you are to slow you can forget it. In powerlifting, and strongman competitions there it may happen less explosive with more exhausting muscular stress. The exhausting muscular stress makes the muscles grow. This is important in bodybuilding, less in powerlifting where efficiency is a factor. If a weightlifter or shot putter etc. has strong muscles this cannot come from the practice of the shot. Judo or Wrestling can make grow the muscles a bit or a bit more. However even the practice and training against a heavier or stronger guy cannot make a bodybuilder. Of course stability can better especially the result in weightlifting and also on Judo or Wrestling, while a stable bodyweight important in shot put and throwing athletics and of course also in Judo (Andreas Tölzer published this in a paper) ... Sumo or American Football (Bob Sapp was an example)..

I think a problem that judo faces against a true wrestling shot is not understanding how to stop the drive off a shot. Much like how judo needs an off balancing, wrestling has the same requirement. The advantage wrestling has over judo is the ability to sprint through an opponent. This is the same fantasy that BJJ has with defending against a takedown. They imagine they can "just guillotine" the way that judo thinks they can "just stop or just throw" a wrestler if you aren't getting that feeling of what it is like to defend/counter this technique then it is all theory. Wrestling however does have big throws and footsweeps albeit without a jacket. But that is just one aspect they need to adapt to where as not defending shots is a whole set of problems for judo to adapt/solve.

Wrestler advantage standing, but when they hit the ground, it's all Judoka.

@marquisejoubert6129

7 ай бұрын

I gotta disagree

@tacticalcombatfighter2787

7 ай бұрын

Catch Wrestler are good in ground. Even many judokas and BJJ practitioner have difficult time when play Ground game against catch wrestler.

@MrCmon113

6 ай бұрын

You're gonna be completely lost on the ground unless you do sambo, bjj or something else that focuses on submissions anyways. If anything I see wrestlers fight more on the ground.

In my wrestling club we train both, freestyle and Greco. So both stance, same story in every place I have trained. Wrestler can fight with a upwards or lower stance. It's no such a thing wrestler have to crouch all the time.

Cuando yo hacía judo se podían agarrar las piernas y era algo que yo aprovechaba bastante. En mi opinión este cambio de reglas aleja aún más al judo de la lucha real y me parece un error

There’s no one in the world who will not progress and absolutely love cross training bjj, judo and wrestling. Ask 3 of those experts how to hip toss and get ready for three answers that are awesome and accurate. Apply the one you can do well to your rules and enjoy.

As someone who practiced both Judo and wrestling I assure you neither is better than the other.

If striking isn't allowed judo is no match. I find wrestlers tend to be way more athletic also. But if striking is allowed and you learn to sprawl judo is still best in my opinion. I learned some muay thai and I just bully people in mma. The biggest weakness I've found for judo is giving up your back and reflexivly turtling.

@GrinningNimbus

7 ай бұрын

@@Reflectionmaterial it doesn't take much adjusting to get used to no gi grips. Yes it is different but some throws are easier to land no gi. For example I can't land harai goshi in judo but I can spam it in no gi settings. My basis for wrestlers being more athletic is when I went to a wrestling gym for 1 day I was sore for 2 weeks after and whenever a wrestler comes to my judo club they seem to never break a sweat and they're always tough to deal with especially in ne waza. Wrestling gyms are like boot camps from what I've seen and heard. Pretty much non stop action with no breaks and a 100% effort until victory mentality which a lot of other martial artists lack because they're hobbiests and not competitors. Even mma guys tend to be more relaxed in training from my experience.

Just watched the catch wrestler defeat Ryron Gracie on KZread.

I’ve done both. Wrestling has helped me at 1.5 years doing judo beat 3rd and 5th Dan judokas

I would say that the Georgians gave a big warning to those who use a hunched over posture.

Wrestlers don't just lean over because of a lack of grips (though that may be part of it), it's because an important part of shooting in on a takedown is the "level change" where you drop down to breach the opponent's defense. If your defense is based low, the opponent's level change will have to be more exaggerated, and if you decide to shoot, you're already half way there

Single or double leg take downs are easily defended. I recall a stupid incident between me and my friend who was my next door neighbor. He wrestled in high school and I had been doing Judo for about 8 months. He tried a double leg on me and I just flat palmed him in the back of the neck as he shot in. He face planted into the dirt (we were outside). I took off running after that. LOL I actually picked up this move from a comic book martial arts course I bought. ROFLMAO

I’d be happy enough if they bring back leg grab throws off of upper body throws for combination like before they got rid of them completely. That was a happy medium if they want to keep the tachiwaza more judo-y, but preserve the art in sport.

Wrestler were helpless on the mat. I would get pinned, but years of training taught wrestler to keep their heads up. This allowed me to choke them.

Dude, depending in the rule of the match, judo rule a judoka wins. wrestling rule, the wrestler wins. street fight, there is no rule, it can go both ways.

My experience is that judo beats wrestling except against a taller opponent you can’t clinch and you have to grab the legs

You did not answer the question! If we have two identical clones, 1 Wrestler 1 Judoka, with no Gi the Wrestler wins 10/10 times, with Gi the Judoka wins 10/10 times

I hate to sound too negative here, but you need to actually pressure test against someone who knows how to execute full-power double legs. None of the 'doubles' you showed were committed to. None of the attackers dropped their levels enough when they shot. None of them properly lifted through the defender. They all look to be only half-power with no true follow-through. If you think merely putting a leg back is going to help against a well-executed double, then you need to watch more Folkstyle (NCAA) wrestling. At the college level, almost everyone uses symmetrical stances to avoid giving up easy single legs, but at the middle and high school level, a significant number of wrestlers use a Sugarfoot stance where one foot is forward and the other is back. To hit a double on them you just have to drive perpendicular to their stance during the follow-through. There is a very good reason that wrestlers sprawl in response to doubles, merely bracing with your back foot is not enough. For reference, I wrestled for 12 years, my entire childhood, and have seen ten-year-olds hit better doubles than anything shown in this video.

Greco was there before freestyle and judo, Greco Roman wrestling has a upright posture with no LEG GRABS, oh yeah by the way it was the first kind of wrestling right ?

@dhimankalita1690

7 ай бұрын

No it's was not first kind of wrestling. The origin of wrestling is not from a single country. Many ancient civilization had wrestling

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

Greco roman was invented by top hat wearing frenchmen. They named it that for marketability.

Look at the sport sambo posture.

@bruceparker6142

7 ай бұрын

@@Reflectionmaterial Strikes allowed in combat sambo.

@jestfullgremblim8002

7 ай бұрын

​@@bruceparker6142i mean, Judo (just like Aikido) was meant to be used against strikes. Just look at videos of Judo throws being used against strikers, they always look so clean! It's because that's how they were always supposed to be used

@bruceparker6142

7 ай бұрын

@jestfullgremblim8002 Fair enough, but judo tournaments are strictly grappling and IJF rules do not allow leg grabs. Rules affect the way games a played.

@jestfullgremblim8002

7 ай бұрын

@@bruceparker6142 indeed, that's one of the bad things about these sports. But at least they allow the practitioners to use their techniques against good opponents in a safe enviroment

@bruceparker6142

7 ай бұрын

@Reflectionmaterial As I understand it, the topic of the video was about modern-day judo vs. wrestling and, in particular, the lack of leg grabs in IJF judo. A question was put on whether the upright judo stance would change if leg grabs were reintroduced. I referenced sport sambo because it's "Russian judo" with leg grabs. When you look at sport sambo, you see they tend to be more bent over than IJF judokas.

👍 👍 👍

Chadi even though I kinda disagree with you this video I still love all your videos...

Ce n'est pas la méthode qui fait l'efficacité mais le pratiquant

Like France top 10 in order, England, Russia, Poland and etc, countries with a small judo pool would get a 1-5 list lol

So, leg grabs were removed from Olympic judo, because when the 2012 Olympic games in London were approaching, there was a real threat that judo was going to be removed from the Olympics, because the question was asked "What's the difference between judo and wrestling, and why do we need both?" so the International Judo Federation (IJF) changed judo's rules, to try and differentiate it from wrestling, so that judo could stay in the Olympics. One of those rules was that leg grabs were removed, and as such, techniques involving leg grabs, such as Sakui Nage (Scooping Throw), Morote Gari (Two Hand Reap) and the traditional Kata Guruma (Shoulder Wheel) could no longer be used. I wouldn't say judo is "helpless" against wrestling, I think it depends on the context. For example, if a wrestler enters a judo competition and uses only their wrestling, they may not do very well... likewise, if a judoka (judo practitioner) enters a wrestling competition and attempts to only use their judo, the judoka will probably not do very well, either. On a personal level, in 2010 when I was a green belt in judo, I entered a competition interstate for judo, competing in the senior men's -100kg division. As there weren't enough competitors in my weight class, we were shifted up to the +100kg open division. One of our opponents was a yellow belt in judo, brand new to judo, but he was a national champion at Greco Roman wrestling. When he and I competed against one another, I won the match, but he won "the fight" - he was not only heavier and stronger than me, but I had never competed against a wrestler before, so it was a rough-as-guts experience for me... in fairness, if this person had more experience in judo, as well as a better understanding of judo's rules, I believe he would have beat me in the match, as well.

Judo, by removing the two highest probability takedowns in MMA (the closest thing to a real fight) : the double an single leg takedowns, literally castrated itself, so yes, while judo is really good for self defense, it completely killed itself by removing the best takedowns available.

@escolastico7

6 ай бұрын

Quais quedas?

@pullupenthusiast3800

6 ай бұрын

Single leg and double legs are not the best takedowns available. It’s all context sensitive, double legs and single legs are just more common with American style of wrestling, and mma is mostly American. Look at someone like Islam

@cslife6666

6 ай бұрын

@@pullupenthusiast3800 Double and single leg takedowns are statistically the most common takedowns since the dawn of MMA, they are the ones that work most, Islam Khabib and all the dagestanis and chechen fighter are experts in them and that's why they are champions in MMA and that's also why pure judokas that transitionned to MMA aren't as good and few.

@pullupenthusiast3800

6 ай бұрын

@@cslife6666 did you not read what I said? They are the most common because it’s an American organization and Americans love that takedown, Islam and khabib use more judo than wrestling. Neither of them have ever competed in wrestling. Islam hits high percentage uchi matas harai goshis up against the cage. Khabib likes ouchi gari and landed osoto gari on RDA. They are both judo black belts. To say one takedown is the best takedown is foolish

@cslife6666

6 ай бұрын

@@pullupenthusiast3800 That argument doesn't hold because it's the same statistics in non american organization, on top of that, fighters from all other the world now compete in the UFC and represent a major part of it, so how does your argument makes sense ? Khabib and Islam can hit Judo takedowns BECAUSE they have high level wrestling offense and defense, otherwise, they would not be able to, they didn't compete in wrestling yet both sambo AND combat sambo allows for both double and single leg takedowns. They are the most important because without the ability to use and defense against them, all judo abilities are really hard to implement in a fight against a skilled fighter who knows how to use them.

I would argue its easier to flow between striking and Judo, than striking and wrestling. Thats the main appeal for me

The low hunch stance in wrestling to me is less about grips and more about head positioning and having to react less to be in position for defense. The Gi changes everything it’s easier to stop a shot’s momentum with Gi grips etc. to me Gi is closer to self defense unless your at the beach shirtless etc. 🤔😎👍

@emZee1994

7 ай бұрын

One thing that is neglected in the gi or no-gi for self defence discussion is climate. If I lived in Russia I would train exclusively in the gi, because everyone is going to be wearing jackets most of the year. But where I live (Australia) I almost never even wear a long sleeve shirt let alone a jacket. The only time I have a jumper is very early in the morning during winter because I get up early for work. Even at night if I'm dressing up I will wear a long sleeve collared shirt but modern clothing isn't baggy and loose like a gi. So I think grabbing it would not be that easy actually, and it might just rip So for the climate I live in, training gi for self defence is not a good idea. I'd most likely never have the chance to use those techniques Besides, learning how to break a grip is something you can learn in about a hour. It's not complicated. Not to mention that anyone who grabs you is not protecting their face, which you are now free to punch Lastly I want to mention something, no-gi techniques work in the gi. But gi techniques don't work in no-gi. So imo, unless you live in a very cold environment, no-gi will be more useful

Yes, completely helpless if you take off the gi and roll no-gi. Judo doesn't stand a chance. Have seen it myself when top performers from wrestling sparred against judokas. I almost felt sorry for them. A very strong wrestler who gets very good at submissions and digs into it becomes very hard to beat. Many bjj guys have been run over. It is only the absolute bjj elite like Marcelo Garcia and Roger Gracie who show bjj effectiveness against strong wrestlers. But strength, strong muscles and well rounded in submissions and defense against it is hard to beat.

@nickelmanful

7 ай бұрын

😂 you've got jokes

@colemanstarr5404

7 ай бұрын

I've seen judoka wearing gi do well against wrestlers with no gi. course that's anecdotal, cant speak to averages

Aleksandr Karelin would like a word

Good explanations. And as usual, screw the ijf.